Newbie 2108 - Postgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think so yeah, but she's starting to convince me

I really don't like your last question

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know what else she would say/do though except for 'everyone else is town and you're scum' outside of pushing you. We're just at that point of the game.

[Elements]

Hey Aureal I've got an idea. If you unvote me I'll vote myself as an insurance policy so any time you like you can just hammer me. Then we can treat me as a defacto elimination for the day. Then we can assume I'm going to o flip town and solve from the rest of you.

[Elements]

I can't really defend myself from most of the points because that's just how I play mafia. I am consistently inconsistent.
The things I don't understand is why I would vote Cactus as scum.

[Elements]

And you still haven't commented on any of my case on Idle

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, that's one of the only reasons I haven't voted you yet.

Your tone in general reads as a townie in general though. Inconsistency has never, and will never, be a scum tell. I maintain that inconsistency is much more likely to come from town than scum.

[IdleMuse]

I don't know what else she would say/do though except for 'everyone else is town and you're scum' outside of pushing you. We're just at that point of the game.

I agree, just waiting on Brick's thoughts really. Unless they have a blinder of a gotcha case on Aureal or yourself I don't really see my position changing.

[IdleMuse]

Current thoughts on people as of right now without looking over the game at all or anything:

cactus - Town for reasons

Brickwalll - I don't think the option clashes with myself and Cactus come from scum. It made Brick stand out and now that we know my Meg pairings were wrong scum just dismissing scum reads on town doesn't seem likely. Only thoughts to the contrary is I'm surprised

IdleMuse -

Aureal - I can think of nothing memorable from this slot. Feels like it's just coasting through a slow day letting indecision build up for a potentially chaotic end of day again.

Pavowski - I vaguely remember liking him early game and I don't think he's done anything different since so I guess town lean?

BlueBloodedToffee - Similar to Pav

I'd also really like to know what you think the scum motivation behind this post is

I think it's a really weak defence, I'm not persuaded at all. Any good scum will have a bunch of posts that they can easily point to and ask that.

[Elements]

My whole defence is weak because you're attacking my playstyle

[Elements]

Which is why I didn't start of with defence because actually finding the final scum (hint: it's Idle) is more important

[Elements]

I'm already tied pretty tightly to Cactus by thinking he's mason, why do I become even more complicated connected to him by voting him

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aureal, I would like to see you at least comment on Element's case on Idle.

[Brickwalll]

Good job team! I was completely wrong on cactus and Pav.

I had elements down as town mason but with pav now flipping TM then I also suspect scum is amongst Aureal/Elements. I have Idle and BBT as town. My vote would be on elements not for the two votes already there.

Brick could you rethink your townread on Idle and let me know what you come up with thanks

I am currently at post 1194 and am itching to put my vote on idle. Your summaries of their interactions is very compelling.

Anyways, not fully caught up yet but that is where I am at in this moment.

[Brickwalll]

Idle and Cactus were townreading each other from the start of the game, not even starting at Null just going straight to a townread, and never voted each other. Their reasons for towning each other were the same from the start, never developed or really elaborated upon with the new content each was producing. They had very little interaction with each other and what little there was was very bland and had zero conflict or disagreement.
I think this is two scum players who don't know how to interact with each other.

Even newbie scum know not to constantly townread each other. Which is why you put some nice safe distancing in with cactus end of D1. Since we're doing ISOs:

Spoiler:

Elements: 283 posts
- 77; likes cactus
- 78; towning cactus with only minor RVS logic
- 79; asks cactus a question, NAI
- 80; getting a read on other peoples thoughts of cactus
- 117; irrelevant to alignment
- 151; nice false dilemma there; the scum read on this is that she's saying 'you're saying cactus and I are acting similarly, so if you townread them, you must townread me'.
- 161; elaboration of the above.
- 166; follow-on discussion highlighting where cactus has been aggressive.
- 288; irrelevant interaction.
- the famous 294; none of the cactus pairs make it to the shortlist. Some are highlighted as possibles.
- 295; irrelevant interaction
- 308; probably NAI, but scumbuddies obviously have an incentive to help each other be more comprehensible in general
- 309; agreeing with cactus
- 310; continuation of discussion with cactus
- 311; continuation of discussion with cactus
- 395; NAI pronoun correction
- Huge gap of no references or interactions (by ctrl-f at least) to

- 685; naked vote on cactus from nowhere (safe distancing, had no votes at that point)

- 704; intent to hammer Weuler (including because it's a pseudo-unvote on cactus)
- 723; I don't understand this post at all in retrospect. Asking someone who is under the hammer, to vote for someone specifically? Then hammering them a bit later? Confusing.
-

751; claiming to know cactus' posting availability?

- 801; questioning BBT's read on cactus
- 805; straight-up townreading cactus
- 809; some easy defences of cactus, nothing too insightful imo
- 812; allowing herself to be seen as persuadable on cactus
- 813; continuation of the above, proceeding to a more a neutral read than before
- 838; discussion of cactus' play
- 840; mildly LAMIST conculsion to that discussion
- 841; defence of cactus, but quite no true scotsman. 'Scum wouldn't play like that'.
- 863; answering a question from cactus
- 893; defending and strengthening the distancing in the latter half of D1. If she really wanted a cactus wagon I feel like she could have tried harder...
- 898; not directly about cactus but worth noting one of the two e-2 wagons was cactus
- 965; "hi tell me who we should smear if/when cactus flips, as that is now looking possible"
- 968; continuation of the above, also testing if the cactus wagon could be dismantled
- 970; continuation
- 972; framing Aureal as cactus' scumbuddy for if/when cactus flips
- 974; refusing to answer in the clear why she's no longer interested in cactus wagon
- 979; implying cactus was mason (did anyone else think this?)
- 1003; 'town for reasons' lol
- 1004; doubling down on 'uhh reasons'
- 1006; still 'reasons'
- 1019; continuation
- 1029; 'i reassessed'
- 1060; Believe me, my reasoning is so sound!
- 1065; Somehow I believe cactus isn't likely to be mislimmed.
- 1098; bit of coaching
- 1104; vote, but, like before, it's when cactus has no votes, even though there is some suspicion around.
- 1131; reinforcing that she's on the cactus wagon
- 1137; 'you changed my mind' is easier to say than to actually case a scumbuddy
- 1141; nice subtle distancing herself there, 'scum are probably quiet right now'
- 1183; post-cactus flip so largely irrelevant
- 1187; post-cactus flip so largely irrelevant, but a mea culpa on town-reading cactus
- and onwards: 5 posts relating to this discussion right now

So like, 56 posts relating to cactus:
townreads: 4
defending: 16
scumreads/votes: 2
attacking/interrogation: 0

Lots and lots of neutral interactions. This is more like what I'd expect from a scum pair, a relatively low amount of direct meaningful interaction, some townreads, but not too many, and some distancing votes at safe points.

The strongest pro-town indication in this ISO I feel is the fact that she stayed on the cactus wagon to conclusion, but, I'm not prepared to clear her solely on that basis, because a) If you're gonna be on a bussing wagon, I feel like you want to be first on, and b) she never expressed why she made that vote, other than 'BBT persuaded me' - (and that was relating to the mason position, not necessarily cactus' scumminess - it was entirely possible cactus was VT at that point)

Oooohhh, Idle hits back with a great defence, even landing some nice little counter-punches. This is getting juicy, I might have to go make some popcorn to see how this entertainment unfolds over the coming pages.

[Elements]

Even from just these 2 posts I'm loving catch up Brick

[Brickwalll]

I can't think of any time if my experience playing mafia where someone has actually used WIFOM because it's WIFOM. Everyone is just on the lookout for it all the time so as not to get caught out but it never gets used. People call things WIFOM because they don't want to town someone for something they did

This strikes me as WIFOM.

[Elements]

I hate you <3

[Brickwalll]

Idle, If I get voted and flip town who is your next port of call?

Aureal.

If Brickwall is scum he's playing a blinder.

If BBT is scum I think the out-of-the-gate pressure on cactus D2 following on into hammering them was very unusual. I guess that could be an extreme bussing strat deliberately intended to townlock, but I think that pretty unlikely?

So, the inverse of the bolded sentence is 'if Brickwall is town he's having a shocker.'

I didn't think I was playing that badly haha.

[Brickwalll]

Brick, are you still keen on pushing a Pav wagon today?

Maybe this was the attempt to divert

This also looks bad for Idle given the flip

I was probing to see if Brick understood the memo re. Pav being the other mason.

This made me chuckle. I must have left my masonic dictionary back at the lodge and not been able to read between the lines about Brother Pav.

[IdleMuse]

So, the inverse of the bolded sentence is 'if Brickwall is town he's having a shocker.'

I didn't think I was playing that badly haha.

That logic doesn't hold, being town-read is desirable for both scum and town

[Brickwalll]

Hey BBT, do you think Aureal is tunneling on me?

I am not BBT but I have an answer to this question if you would like to hear it.

I'll give you a clue. One word. Three letters.

[Brickwalll]

Sincere apologies for the delay in posting this week. Busy start to the week and have in-laws staying. However, whilst being away it gave me some nice thinking time and only to say I feel so bad having pretty much gunned for Pav since the outset and he was the mason. So I must avenge this misdemeanour and no doubt he is out there enjoying his herb in peace. But genuinely, it got me thinking.

We all experience this game differently but my D1 ended being tunnelled by Cactus and Idle. Funny enough, as we all know, I thought Cactus was noob town (turns out he was noob scum) but Idle was the scum. When Cactus subsequently flipped scum at the end of the last day, that shifted my focus from Idle (although was town leaning her before this anyways) to either Elements or Aureal. But I really don't think Elements is scum, the offer to self lim is crazy. Her frustration shines through and I can relate, especially with the question of asking "If I flip town, whose your next vote". Yes, this could be an act but I would then say if she is scum then I agree with BBT and say well played.

I also don't think Aureal is scum. Pav questioning me on Aureal and the lack of 'content' got me thinking, but I don't think there is a case in it. Her attempts are too genuine at scum hunting. I think she is misguided on elements and would ask her to reconsider. Not to say don't move away from elements, but genuinely try and see a case in Idle or whoever else is on the chopping block. If you don't htink the case is there, then go back to Elements. But at least try and look elsewhere, it benefits town.

Ultimately, I didn't actually think that Idle's case on elements was that great. I added some emphasis for the commentary. If you read Elements isolation compared to Cactus and Idle, I think there is a marked difference and that Idle seems the most scummy of the two. Idle's very drastic switch on her read of me at the beginning of D2 was also odd. It was almost like it had been discussed and agreed that they wouldn't tunnel on me anymore and she quickly shifted her tune. The reasoning given for that shift wasn't anything overly compelling IIRC. Lastly, and I think most scummy for me, is how quickly Idle put Megs at E-1 and in a position to claim. No matter what reasoning you give, it was just far too quick.

[Brickwalll]

My current feelings are:

Town to scum:
BBT
Elements/Aureal
Idle

Intent to hammer, Idle.

[IdleMuse]

specially with the question of asking "If I flip town, whose your next vote"

This is Elements scouting who to NK tonight.

[IdleMuse]

dle's very drastic switch on her read of me at the beginning of D2 was also odd.

I thought you were the other Mason at that point, which is why I didn't want to elaborate on that too much.