Newbie 2106 - Postgame

[Zombie Detective]

Unfortunately, I'm not punctual, but alianna is. I was afraid of this and so I had prepared a trap, but couldn't post it in time.

I totally get why WS said he didn't wanted to be in this situation.

I will get back to the posts later today.

[Aisa]

There's rationality and making judgments based on the careful weighing of all available evidence. Then there's the fact that whenever I contemplate eliminating BlueSnakelet my heart sings, and whenever I think that Zombie Detective could possibly die today my heart shivers~

[Aisa]

I can't see Zombie's suspicion on Froggy as busing, so I'm still suspecting Aisa.

What makes me more suspicious than Froggy?

Unfortunately, I'm not punctual, but alianna is. I was afraid of this and so I had prepared a trap, but couldn't post it in time.

I totally get why WS said he didn't wanted to be in this situation.

I will get back to the posts later today.

What were you afraid of exactly? What trap had you prepared?

[BlueSnakelet]

I can't see Zombie's suspicion on Froggy as busing, so I'm still suspecting Aisa.

What makes me more suspicious than Froggy?

[⋯]

Froggy flipped red, so they're more suspicious by default.

The reason I'm more suspicious of you than

Zombie

is because of how you treated your suspicion of Froggy back in Day 2. For most of the day, your interactions with Froggy were pretty generic. Later, when Froggy was under a lot of heat, you stated your suspicious on Froggy without much of a reason. But even so, you voted at the last moment because you didn't want to put them in E-1.

All of this sounds like the type of progression a scum would have in this situation.

[Aisa]

Lol yes you are correct I meant to say "what makes me more suspicious than Zombie?"

[Aisa]

[...]

\.../

There are still records of the fact I was trying to sort the slot in my ISO. Here are a few examples...

Spoiler:

...I keep mixing up Zombie Detective and FroggyMaybe in my mind, because a zombie and Kermit the Frog are both green anthropomorphic creatures.

Also, forgot to say, thanks everyone! I don't think I've ever been in a game where so many people have explicitly welcomed me. Nice to see you again, too, HPE.

[...]

Can you explain what you mean by "think that will stay so for the rest of the game?" Don't worry about having little to go off of! All games have to start somewhere!

What made you think Charles and HPE looked a bit more towny than chev/my slot?

---
...And after this extraordinary contribution I will be going to bed. Good night and see you tomorrow~

Essentially, because of the inactivity. Like, if you're silent, you have no quote to turn around on you because you're just not speaking.

HPE and charles did seem a bit more town-ish to me because they were just a lot more active and attempted to read somebody as scum, i believe?

---
To be fair, i was kind of stressed too. I don't really understand what is town and what is mafia yet, and i generally like to go off of atleast the tiniest bit of information rather than hot air.
(And no, "2 of us are Mafia" doesnt count)
---

Moving away from that a little, welcome to the game :>

Ok, that makes some sense (which doesn't mean I'm convinced you are town yet!).

Even players who have been around a long time struggle to know exactly what is town and what is mafia. I think that playing this game means that you have to accept that there is no way to know for sure.

You say you like to go off of "information" rather than "hot air". What kinds of information are you looking for?

@FroggyMaybe, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. To me, words are information. People have posted in the game, so there are words, so there is information I can use to try to guess who is Mafia. Of course, it is not a lot of information, but a little information is better than none. All games start from no information, then have a little information, then have more information.

Anyway, enough theoretical discussion about information. Can you tell me what you think the most useful piece of information we have so far is? Can you tell me who you think is most likely to be Mafia?

I suppose I didn't really answer the question there ^. If you forced me to pick a side, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I would go for scum.

@Aisa words do count as info, sure, but id much rather have something guaranteed, like a cop. Assumeing this isn't possible, since a mason died, i might have to attempt to focus somewhat harder?

Problem is, i can't really tell town apart from mafia at the moment.

I will assume that you are Town here.

Yes, obviously guaranteed information would be ideal. However, games on this website usually don't have a lot of guaranteed information. I am biased, but analysing words is exactly what I find interesting about the game. I think a lot of players on this site will share the same opinion. I say this because, if you are Town, I hope this gives you some more context and helps you decide if you like playing on here.

You are right that we will not receive any more guaranteed information this game. The only other power role in the game is another Mason and there is no way of knowing for sure who the other Mason is.

Yes, it would be great to see you take more of an active role in the game! I think this is a really important point for you to understand. Other players also told you this on Day 1:

if tell us who you think is mafia, this can help us understand you

. We need to understand if you are mafia or town, but we cannot do this if don't tell us what you're thinking, or if the only thing you say is that you are not sure who is town and who is mafia.

I realise you keep talking about there not being much information because I keep asking you about it. Sorry, I'll stop now! Thanks for the reads you've shared so far.

My read at the start of Day 2 was that Froggy seemed towny by tone, but that there really wasn't enough content to judge. The most important thing seemed spending some time engaging with the slot and actually getting it to talk. I went and did that; the fact their behaviour still did not change is one of the reasons I eventually came around to a scumread.

I realise none of this makes it impossible that I am Froggy's partner and held off on voting Froggy until the last possible second, but that is not possible to disprove;

all I can do is present my version of events for everyone to consider.

/...\

Let's try anyway.

Do you usually speak in generic terms when questioning players? Or at least non-confrontational players like Froggy?

In the examples you gave, you're just comparing Froggy's playstyle with your own in general terms, with little information specific to this game (with the exception of #320, that one had a little more meat in it). These types of discussion are easier to fake.

Generally, with someone who has been lurky I am more likely to ask something like "tell me your scumreads". With someone who has posted a lot, I am more likely to ask "tell me how post #1942 doesn't contradict post #1706".

In this case, I was trying to give Froggy a bridge if they were Town. If a Town player makes the statement "To be fair, i was kind of stressed too. I don't really understand what is town and what is mafia yet, and i generally like to go off of atleast the tiniest bit of information rather than hot air", then I need to communicate some pretty general and basic things about the game of Mafia. Why

would

I ask them "do you think post #1976 is scum-indicative?" Clearly the issue is at a more fundamental level.

We've talked about this a bit.

No, all of the things that made me suspect you over Erinys have been answered. But I'm still going to wait until the last moment before dropping the hammer.

You said that all the things that made you suspect me over Erinys had been answered, meaning that you must have found my explanation plausible at the time.

Why are you now back to suspecting me on the same grounds?

[BlueSnakelet]

[⋯]

No, all of the things that made me suspect you over Erinys have been answered. But I'm still going to wait until the last moment before dropping the hammer.

You said that all the things that made you suspect me over Erinys had been answered, meaning that you must have found my explanation plausible at the time.

Why are you now back to suspecting me on the same grounds?

When I said "the things that made me suspect you over Erinys" I wasn't talking about your non-committal suspicion on Froggy, because that applied to both you and Erinys.

I was talking about the "PR hunting" bit and the "Froggy coach" bit.

I made #572 in response of #571. You didn't ask me if I still suspected you at all. You asked me if you were still the "most likely candidate for scum". The answer was no because the only logic remaining that made me suspicious of you also applied to another player, at the time unconfirmed.

[Zombie Detective]

Also came up with a few questions for ZD:
1. do you think there is an actual inconsistency in faustiv's read on you, mentioned in the previous post?
2. you seemed pretty suspicious of faustiv on Day 2, but thought Snakelet was townier than me on Day 3. Why?
3. why did you throw froggy in the gutter in post 182?

Don't be jealous, Snakelet, I'll have plenty of questions for you in due course...

Also don't worry, I won't go this crazy with my posting every day! Had the time to do some more in depth research today.

1) I will get back to this later when I re-read.

2) mainly because of how snakelet unvoted me and voted froggy even though he could have saved froggy by pushing my wagon. Though what you mention in your post #557 was something I had already in mind and I had considered the possibility.

3) The way he was answering questions it didn't seem like I could ask him anything that would us anything from his answers, I just wanted to see if that gets any reaction.

I'm completely alright with any number/length of posts that you want to make. I'm slow with replies ATM, but I'm reading everything.

I can't see Zombie's suspicion on Froggy as busing, so I'm still suspecting Aisa.

What makes me more suspicious than Froggy?

Unfortunately, I'm not punctual, but alianna is. I was afraid of this and so I had prepared a trap, but couldn't post it in time.

I totally get why WS said he didn't wanted to be in this situation.

I will get back to the posts later today.

What were you afraid of exactly? What trap had you prepared?

Of this situation, HPE flipping town and WS dying and having to decide between you 2.

I didn't copy my post, but in short I was gonna submit a post just around 10 mins mark, saying that I re-read and there was a series of inconsistency I noticed with WS and a previous scum read of mine. Infact the previous scum read (which could be aisa or snake) is now confirm town for me but I can't couldn't say which because of night kill and WS is my biggest suspicion. Hoping that WS wouldn't get night kill and the 3rd person that remains would be 100% scum, instead of current 50-50 chance.

That is why I challenged snake, I knew he would Hammer right on time and so I will be able to lay my trap around end time and give excuse that I don't have time anymore will expand on next day if I'm alive. But my laziness got in the way

In reality I haven't really done any re-reading at all.

[Aisa]

Great! Thanks both for the replies.

Snake, I can't quite work if you're willing to consider the possibility of me being Town from your posting patterns - it's like I don't know the rules of engagement. Assuming you're Town, maybe you're not sure either?

I encourage you to make up your mind about the information you'd like to see and about how much you want to work with me. If you're Town and if I'm Town, then we have quite a lot of gap to bridge, and I'm not sensing a lot of attempts to try to figure me out.

[Aisa]

I think I'll chill for the rest of today. Tomorrow I'll read the ten pages I haven't read.

@alianna

24-hour deadline extension bc Christmas Day?

[Aisa]

Great! Thanks both for the replies.

Snake, I can't quite work

out

if you're willing to consider the possibility of me being Town from your posting patterns - it's like I don't know the rules of engagement. Assuming you're Town, maybe you're not sure either?

I encourage you to make up your mind about the information you'd like to see and about how much you want to work with me. If you're Town and if I'm Town, then we have quite a lot of gap to bridge, and I'm not sensing a lot of attempts to try to figure me out.

EBWOP

----
Was also having a think about what I can possibly say to ZD that would be helpful here if he's Town... well, there's always an open offer that I'll discuss anything you want with you. I can also be much pushier about wanting you to vote Snakelet if that would help
But of course from your perspective you need to guard yourself from me manipulating you, and, well, not sure what I can helpfully say about the correct way of balancing these considerations.

[Alianna]

I think I'll chill for the rest of today. Tomorrow I'll read the ten pages I haven't read.

@alianna

24-hour deadline extension bc Christmas Day?

Sure. The new day deadline is in (expired on 2022-12-27 14:45:46).

[Aisa]

Fantastic <3

Going to read the last ten pages now, so will be around

[BlueSnakelet]

Also came up with a few questions for ZD:
1. do you think there is an actual inconsistency in faustiv's read on you, mentioned in the previous post?
2. you seemed pretty suspicious of faustiv on Day 2, but thought Snakelet was townier than me on Day 3. Why?
3. why did you throw froggy in the gutter in post 182?

Don't be jealous, Snakelet, I'll have plenty of questions for you in due course...

Also don't worry, I won't go this crazy with my posting every day! Had the time to do some more in depth research today.

1) I will get back to this later when I re-read.

2) mainly because of how snakelet unvoted me and voted froggy even though he could have saved froggy by pushing my wagon. Though what you mention in your post #557 was something I had already in mind and I had considered the possibility.

3) The way he was answering questions it didn't seem like I could ask him anything that would us anything from his answers, I just wanted to see if that gets any reaction.

I'm completely alright with any number/length of posts that you want to make. I'm slow with replies ATM, but I'm reading everything.

I can't see Zombie's suspicion on Froggy as busing, so I'm still suspecting Aisa.

What makes me more suspicious than Froggy?

Unfortunately, I'm not punctual, but alianna is. I was afraid of this and so I had prepared a trap, but couldn't post it in time.

I totally get why WS said he didn't wanted to be in this situation.

I will get back to the posts later today.

What were you afraid of exactly? What trap had you prepared?

Of this situation, HPE flipping town and WS dying and having to decide between you 2.

I didn't copy my post, but in short I was gonna submit a post just around 10 mins mark, saying that I re-read and there was a series of inconsistency I noticed with WS and a previous scum read of mine. Infact the previous scum read (which could be aisa or snake) is now confirm town for me but I can't couldn't say which because of night kill and WS is my biggest suspicion. Hoping that WS wouldn't get night kill and the 3rd person that remains would be 100% scum, instead of current 50-50 chance.

That is why I challenged snake, I knew he would Hammer right on time and so I will be able to lay my trap around end time and give excuse that I don't have time anymore will expand on next day if I'm alive. But my laziness got in the way

In reality I haven't really done any re-reading at all.

About this trap... Have you used or witnessed something like it in any of your previous Mafia experiences?

[Aisa]

Ok, reading done. I don't feel like writing as much of a wall as last time, but a few thoughts I've had are:

1. I've really wavered back and forth on Zombie's two wall posts, 360 and 392, over the course of this game. Rereading them now with a fresh mind, the parts where he addresses faustiv actually seem very natural. The things he questions all seem very natural to ask about.
2. One thing that makes me hesitate is the strength of Zombie's scumread on HPE on Day 3. That feels like it could possibly be faked.
3. This little post by ZD:

If nothing changes until 10 minutes before the deadline, I'll hammer.

That would be cutting it too close

ZD's ISO has a lot of little details like these. Things that scum has no reason to post, apart from trying to look town.

[Aisa]

And BlueSnakelet... really just haven't seen much in his posts that I would consider a solid towntell. He substitutes in, votes Froggy, and gives a one-line motivation when prompted.

On Day 3, rules out ZD and WS and narrows it down to me or HPE. Writes a case on me, but then doesn't really push it and drops it fairly quickly. This struck me as an odd pattern: I'm used to people being a bit more insistent when they scumread me. Votes HPE at the end of the day. There's the whole waiting until 10 minutes before deadline to hammer affair, which seems utterly NAI at best.

I maintain that the posts from that slot which seem the towniest are the 5-6 posts in faustiv's ISO starting from this one. If that's scum, I'm impressed by how hard faustiv commits to their fake reads. Points for style for sure.

[Aisa]

Overall, though, I have an easier time justifying to myself that faustiv/BlueSnakelet is scum. There are just *so many* words in ZD's posting and I don't understand what could drive scum to... like, want to fake all of them? Whereas those 5-6 faustiv posts I can still justify as coming from scum. I can tell myself "pfftt, all faustiv does in those 5-6 posts is say a few slots are town, which shouldn't be hard at all for scum who knows those slots are town"

Yeah, I'm in a difficult, difficult mental corner to come out from if Snakelet is town, and I don't particularly want to come out from it. Sorry

[Aisa]

I'll give Snakelet 24 hours to talk to me, if he wants to. If not, I'll vote for him.

[Aisa]

He substitutes in, votes Froggy, and gives a one-line motivation when prompted.

Thanks for the answers everyone~

Snakelet, you haven't said much about why you actually scumread Froggy. Care to share more?

Froggy's Day 1 posts are almost completely devoid of game content. Even when Zombie pressured them for reads, they couldn't bring themself to actually suspect anyone. Furthermore, when called out on their lack of content, Froggy repeatedly responded by shrugging it off to avoid having to give any substantial read.

Well, more like 3 lines.

[Zombie Detective]

Also came up with a few questions for ZD:
1. do you think there is an actual inconsistency in faustiv's read on you, mentioned in the previous post?
2. you seemed pretty suspicious of faustiv on Day 2, but thought Snakelet was townier than me on Day 3. Why?
3. why did you throw froggy in the gutter in post 182?

Don't be jealous, Snakelet, I'll have plenty of questions for you in due course...

Also don't worry, I won't go this crazy with my posting every day! Had the time to do some more in depth research today.

1) I will get back to this later when I re-read.

2) mainly because of how snakelet unvoted me and voted froggy even though he could have saved froggy by pushing my wagon. Though what you mention in your post #557 was something I had already in mind and I had considered the possibility.

3) The way he was answering questions it didn't seem like I could ask him anything that would us anything from his answers, I just wanted to see if that gets any reaction.

I'm completely alright with any number/length of posts that you want to make. I'm slow with replies ATM, but I'm reading everything.

I can't see Zombie's suspicion on Froggy as busing, so I'm still suspecting Aisa.

What makes me more suspicious than Froggy?

Unfortunately, I'm not punctual, but alianna is. I was afraid of this and so I had prepared a trap, but couldn't post it in time.

I totally get why WS said he didn't wanted to be in this situation.

I will get back to the posts later today.

What were you afraid of exactly? What trap had you prepared?

Of this situation, HPE flipping town and WS dying and having to decide between you 2.

I didn't copy my post, but in short I was gonna submit a post just around 10 mins mark, saying that I re-read and there was a series of inconsistency I noticed with WS and a previous scum read of mine. Infact the previous scum read (which could be aisa or snake) is now confirm town for me but I can't couldn't say which because of night kill and WS is my biggest suspicion. Hoping that WS wouldn't get night kill and the 3rd person that remains would be 100% scum, instead of current 50-50 chance.

That is why I challenged snake, I knew he would Hammer right on time and so I will be able to lay my trap around end time and give excuse that I don't have time anymore will expand on next day if I'm alive. But my laziness got in the way

In reality I haven't really done any re-reading at all.

About this trap... Have you used or witnessed something like it in any of your previous Mafia experiences?

Never seen anything like that. But now I'm curious if anyone has done anything like this. Or just set traps in general, what are they like? I'm down to discuss this after game

[Zombie Detective]

I'll give Snakelet 24 hours to talk to me, if he wants to. If not, I'll vote for him.

I will not be voting till the last day

[Aisa]

I'll give Snakelet 24 hours to talk to me, if he wants to. If not, I'll vote for him.

I will not be voting till the last day

Of course, that seems fine. I am at a point where I personally feel ready to take responsibility and make a choice.

[BlueSnakelet]

I doubt Zombie would be able to think about something like that trap if he was Mafia. My will is locked in on Aisa at this point.

But I'll wait until exactly 24 hours after #642 before voting, because of course I will.

[Zombie Detective]

Also belated very happy birthday aisa!

[Aisa]

Tick tock tick tock
VOTE: BlueSnakelet