Newbie 2086 - Reaction GIFs | End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3-5

catboi

(1): Dunnstral

Dunnstral

(1): catboi

Not Voting

(3): Cape90, ɀefiend, butterchurn

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: January 18, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-17 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Cape90]

Or are you saying I shouldn't have ruled out a team of you/zefiend already?

I was kinda subconsciously thinking about this when I said that.

Cape90/zefiend - 215 doesn't feel like a bus and I don't think cape tries for that on day 1 in a 9p setup.

I just didn't really agree there. Not to mention 1. zefiend wasn't a popular candidate, 2. catboi was literally expressing that bussing in a 9p setup here is not good, however, they argue that themselves/Dunn were not out of the question today.
IDK, I could have seen my vote on ze as like a distancing thing, but whatever

[Cape90]

I'm feeling pretty ready to lock in Dunn/zefiend. I don't mind being the next one to vote Dunn here, cape, you good with that? zefiend, you can even get in on the action and hammer if you want to.

Cape/catboi, if I'm right, one of us will be dead toMorrow. Anything else we need to talk about before that happens? I also don't at all mind waiting longer if you want to think more first, we have 3 more days to deadline, but it seems like Dunn has given up and, to me at least, zefiend is the clear partner. I don't have much else I feel like I need to look into or discuss.

I will vote Dunn actually here since I am less trusted, at least by zefeind, who just might be scum but idk, I can relate to getting busy

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Cape90]

Dunn is at E-1 if it wasn't obvious

[butterchurn]

Or are you saying I shouldn't have ruled out a team of you/zefiend already?

I was kinda subconsciously thinking about this when I said that.

Cape90/zefiend - 215 doesn't feel like a bus and I don't think cape tries for that on day 1 in a 9p setup.

I just didn't really agree there. Not to mention 1. zefiend wasn't a popular candidate, 2. catboi was literally expressing that bussing in a 9p setup here is not good, however, they argue that themselves/Dunn were not out of the question today.
IDK, I could have seen my vote on ze as like a distancing thing, but whatever

I did think that the pairing was plausible at the start of the Day, but I've been townreading you lately for other reasons. I guess I don't know how you play as mafia, so it's not super strong, but -- I don't mean this in a rude way -- I think you'd put more effort into making sense if you were scum. Your posts just feel very stream of consciousness and like a natural thought process in a way that I think is hard to fabricate.

[butterchurn]

Still ready to vote Dunn, expressing intent to hammer if that wasn't obvious. I can wait for zefiend/dunn to post again if they have anything they want to say, but eh at this point I don't see much benefit to drawing things out that much further.

[catboi]

I just didn't really agree there. Not to mention 1. zefiend wasn't a popular candidate, 2. catboi was literally expressing that bussing in a 9p setup here is not good, however, they argue that themselves/Dunn were not out of the question today.
IDK, I could have seen my vote on ze as like a distancing thing, but whatever

The operative word you are missing here is "on day 1". A significant amount of the time, a day 1 scum elimination leads to a town win, often because the game gets locked up mechanically by power roles with only 1 scum left. Bussing day 1 is generally suboptimal for those reasons. Of course, not everyone plays optimally and distancing is possible, but my estimation was that you wouldn't try it given that there was at least some degree of suspicion on him that day. Of course distancing is always possible and I generally have a hard time spotting it, but the way you went after him didn't feel that way.

By contrast, I don't think bussing on 5P with no PRs alive is a bad strategy whatsoever.

Of course, this stuff is all just generalized strategy talk that I'd believe regardless of alignment. The question you have to ask yourself is if that read of an anti-alignment is one I'd actually believe. And I don't think that was an unreasonable conclusion to draw at all.

[butterchurn]

Okay, well. Guess they don't want to. I'll probably hammer in the morning then unless someone gives me a good reason not to.

[catboi]

I don't have further comment. My general advice to town who ends up holding hammer in F3 is that you should always question both sides before making your vote.

Feel free to hammer anytime.

[butterchurn]

Yeah, I dunno. Kinda seems like they've just given up, which is... weird, since this should've been easy for them. But I'll take it, I guess. I always have some paranoid second-guessing at the last minute, but I really see no rational reason to believe the team would be anything else.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[catboi]

I don't think zefiend being inactive is alignment indicative, seems to just be busy. What he's chosen to say with the time he's had is disappointing, though.

Good luck~

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3-6

Dunnstral

(3): catboi, Cape90, butterchurn

catboi

(1): Dunnstral

Not Voting

(1): ɀefiend,

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: January 18, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-17 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

An Elimination Has Been Achieved!

[fferyllt]

Dunnstral was a

Mafia Goon

Night Three Begins now and night actions are due on January 18, Midnight US Eastern Time. (expired on 2022-01-17 21:00:00). If you have a night action please PM me by then.

[fferyllt]

Cape90 died last night. He was a was a

Vanilla Townie

.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 4-1

Day 4 Begins!

Not Voting

(3): ɀefiend, catboi, butterchurn

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to eliminate.

Deadline: January 18, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-25 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[catboi]

Why have you done this to me?

[ɀefiend]

VOTE: Butterchurn

catboi, if you have any questions lemme know. As for a scum-case, there's definitely a lot of wishy-washiness from butterchurn I can pull up throughout the first couple days that smelled scummy but flew under the radar. Mostly everyone pigeon-holed him as a town-lean and never looked back.

As for my town-case, I will say, I didn't play a spectacular town game but I honestly lost a lot of motivation after Greeting flipped town. It sucks to try so hard and be so wrong.

If anything I've learned from this game, butterchurn has played the "off-site 'newbie' scum" extremely well. I hope regardless of the outcome, people will give his scumplay a little more credit.

[butterchurn]

Well, I guess I can stop looking for cape games on MU, then.

Gonna give the catboi/dunn pairing one more evaluation, but it would take a lot to change my mind at this point. I don't think the "I'm still alive, I must be on the wrong track" is very rational twice in a row.

[catboi]

I'm town

[butterchurn]

Oh, well, I guess I don't have to do that either then.

[butterchurn]

VOTE: zefiend

I think there's plenty of reason (and now it's obvious), but I can point out the things that were most convincing to me if you think it would be helpful.

[catboi]

Go ahead and write it up, I'm going to give both of you time to make your case.

[butterchurn]

Alright.

- zefiend's push on Greeting. His case is largely composed of either poking at logical issues, or taking Greeting's stated approach of working by associations and then nitpicking places where he wasn't necessarily always doing that. There isn't really a lot of reasoning from him along the lines of "would this be more likely to come from scum!greeting or town!greeting?". Maybe I'm biased, but I think my suspicion being due to Greeting's game, approach, and responses feeling off compared to his previous town games was more valid. As time went on, I started to come around on Greeting, since I think he started to look more town and your defense of him helped sway me. zefiend stayed tunneled on him, which, incidentally, is what I probably would have done if I were mafia there. I was also going to mention that zefiend's vote on Greeting came when there were 2 votes on Dunn and 1 on Greeting, which looks pretty bad to me, but then I realized that to you, my vote on Greeting when there's 2 on Dunn probably is pretty comparable, so I guess that doesn't help you much. I think the second vote there to tie things up is more suspicious, but again, I'm biased.
- the nightkill on Greeting. If scum zefiend is stuck voting Greeting here, it makes endgame significantly harder, as he has to either come up with a convincing reason not to vote Greeting, or make the vote anyway and confirm one of him/Greeting as scum. I don't think he wins that in the court of town opinion. A scumteam without zefiend, however, would want to keep his vote on Greeting, as already discussed. I also originally thought a Dunn team wouldn't want to kill Greeting, because in theory that pushes both me and zefiend towards Dunn in our suspicions, but if Dunn is partnered with zefiend that doesn't matter. zefiend can go wherever he wants -- he can choose to try to bus Dunn (that's what I think the best play would have been), or read the room and see where else he can go (the greedier and worse play, imo). zefiend is the one partner where I think a Dunn team killing Greeting makes sense, although I didn't recognize that immediately. Especially since Greeting would likely move onto zefiend if Dunn died.
- his approach to yesterDay. After his initial posts, he didn't really seem to have any interest in solving the game, just in defending himself. He cared MUCH more about setting up a cross with me for the next Day than he did about getting the first lim right, even way before it was clear that Dunn was more likely. He also never particularly seemed to come to a conclusion between you and Dunn. Town in that situation have to be considering things a lot more carefully, because all 3 town have to vote the same target and get it right (which I think me, you, and cape did pretty well at). zefiend wasn't really participating in that, and didn't have any sense of urgency or much care at all what the result of that Day was. Because as mafia, he knew that if Dunn was limmed, there would be one more Day to worry about, and if you were limmed instead, he wins.
- his slip, as I discussed in 763 and 770. This was what convinced me. I don't see any way that town zefiend makes that mistake. From some other players, I could see it, but not from him. He was pretty clearly reading my posts only caring about the dunn/zefiend pairing, since that's the one that exists. He also, when arguing back against it, just completely fails to comprehend that other pairings including him FMPOV were possible.


Also, now that it's confirmed (to me), kinda funny that NK15 got it right with his last post of Day 1. If only he had any credibility left after the fakeclaim:

Lim zefiend and dunn, unless they are prs. Tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

et

[fferyllt]

allez