Newbie 2125 - Postgame

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Also why are you so focused on trying to work out if CT is onboard with Jason!Scum rather then just going based on your read?

Are you worried that CT might end up voting you instead of me?

Why do you not want Bazuf and I to discuss things?

[JasonWazza]

Interesting. I iso'd you, but that wasn't the impression I got that iamveryhappy was your backup wagon. Could you clarify this?

Just did a count of where it feels like votes are going to parcel out, and i don't think i'm getting the BB lim i want in any world.

UNVOTE: BBmolla
VOTE: iamveryhappy

This is E-1

Start the Happy vote with the above.

*snip*
@Delta, we really need to do BB first, i don't like how this is looking at all, i'm fine with Happy tomorrow, but BB is misrepresenting everything so bad it ain't funny

UNVOTE: iamveryhappy
VOTE: BBMolla

Snipped a lot of context, but this is the change to BB.

After this there it's hard to definitively say where things would have gone had BB not quick-hammered, but unless there was major support in a BB wagon, Happy is my preference for who gets limmed in this case.

I have the same concern about this that you do, this seems to be a rather safe assertion at this stage of the game without much evidence, though that evidence is an E-1 vote; while BBmolla was active and scumreading iamveryhappy, risking a possible hammer (though the vote was withdrawn). Still, all things considered and by that I mean JasonWazza's behavior on Day 3 especially, I'm leaning towards a scum!Jason.

Reminder that said time was 100% time that could have resulted in a Happy hammer, and especially given that BB ended up quick hammering, why is it exactly odd to think this is any less as good as setting up the lim?

I'm not a new player, i know quick-hammers happen, if i was really worried about keeping Happy alive, i wouldn't have put him at E-1.

Also what exactly from my Day 3 is that scummy?

Also why are you so focused on trying to work out if CT is onboard with Jason!Scum rather then just going based on your read?

Are you worried that CT might end up voting you instead of me?

Why do you not want Bazuf and I to discuss things?

Not what i'm saying at all, i'm just going to point out to you that the wording is odd isn't it?

Like Bazuf is more focused on finding out if your agreeable before putting a vote down, which if he is that certain on Jason!scum, there is no need to convince you first, he should just vote.

[JasonWazza]

No, I don't think so, though this might be a playstyle clash. One of my concerns right now is some behavior of yours which is coming across as scummy to me might just be a playstyle variation.

Also as a note, you can always meta me if needed, my wiki is up to date with all the games i've completed since i came back.

[JasonWazza]

You know what, i might regret this call, but i'm going to make it, CT reads more town to me right now, and like he is actively trying to work out who is town and who is scum, whereas Bazuf feels like he is just trying to see who is agreeable, and BB/Leek have made me question my CT read enough that i'm gonna make the call.

VOTE: Bazuf

[ChicagoTypewriter]

VOTE: Bazuf

Not scum, called it.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

VOTE: Bazuf

Not scum, called it.

Sorry, by that I mean

I'm

not scum. Obviously.

[JasonWazza]

Well at least i know i made the right call now, all on you CT, ask whatever you think you need.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

After this there it's hard to definitively say where things would have gone had BB not quick-hammered, but unless there was major support in a BB wagon, Happy is my preference for who gets limmed in this case.

Okay, but you don't really indicate this that much. Your reads more paint happy in the picture of 'fine if limmed' not 'second choice to wagon'. Here's my perspective:

And since i should probably commit to my reads at some point, no ordering is present outside of the groupings
...
Null:
CT
Happy

Lean Scum:
KFC

Scum:
BB

I think our readlists mostly align at this point, if you were to bump CT up a notch, Bazuf down a notch and Happy into lean scum.

Most of these are fair, just curious though with the Happy read, is this based on the slot itself, or mostly partner equity?

Just did a count of where it feels like votes are going to parcel out, and i don't think i'm getting the BB lim i want in any world.

UNVOTE: BBmolla
VOTE: iamveryhappy

This is E-1

@Delta, we really need to do BB first, i don't like how this is looking at all, i'm fine with Happy tomorrow, but BB is misrepresenting everything so bad it ain't funny

UNVOTE: iamveryhappy
VOTE: BBMolla

See what I mean?

[JasonWazza]

I mean it comes down to how you have to play, deadline is coming up so there is 2 options on my list.

Try and drum up support for a BB lim.
Support the Happy lim.

If i am scum with a roleblocker partner, the second is just stupidly risky, and yet it's what i did, at least until i thought BB did enough of a scummy thing to actually cause a wagon to be a possiblity.

But if you check Bazuf, there is a new issue, Bazuf is on the wagon, 2 votes, and with how he was lurking D1, he came back to Happy having already been at E-1 and having no real way to change his options and posts the following.

Also, happy is E-1 has come here and gave zero intention on claming or adding anything productive.
I'd be very surprised if town were to chose any other lim at this point...

Personally i don't really read that as a townie being happy that their scum read is being limmed, this reads more like scum having seen what's occured after the fact, and kind of just accepting that they are going to lose their partner.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Also what exactly from my Day 3 is that scummy?

Okay, let's talk your Day 3, which is by far the largest reason I scumread you right now. You essentially act all of Day 3 like I'm the scum at the game to the point where it seems like you're obstinate that it's not possible that I wouldn't be scum if KKFC flips green and you also spend part of the day at Leek's throat without actually providing a good counterargument and being downright antagonistic to anyone not within your worldview, which is everyone else at the table. I'm also not happy with you voting for KKFC, but so did Bazuf, so I hold that equally against you two.

Also, am I just blind, or did you ever properly explained why you scumread me on Day 3?

[JasonWazza]

The scum read was based on VCA, and it's BB/Leek calling you town that made me reconsider, sure i was being a bit obstinate by not looking over the game more, but i figured we had a done deal game, it was only when the Mason's call you town that i really thought that i needed to re-check things, until then i thought it was just a game that got broken by Mason's.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

But if you check Bazuf, there is a new issue, Bazuf is on the wagon, 2 votes, and with how he was lurking D1, he came back to Happy having already been at E-1 and having no real way to change his options and posts the following.

Bazuf's E-1 post is interestingly scummy in nature, the assumption being that a hammer wouldn't occur and thus it being perfectly safe is interesting, and then alongside the theory that Bazuf simply was never active while a good time to pull the vote was there is interesting, but you would think a scum would be a lot more careful about that prospect, especially with a roleblocker partner.

Personally i don't really read that as a townie being happy that their scum read is being limmed, this reads more like scum having seen what's occured after the fact, and kind of just accepting that they are going to lose their partner.

Okay, but why post it though? Kind of reads like a convincer to me that other people should vote for happy.

[JasonWazza]

Bazuf's E-1 post is interestingly scummy in nature, the assumption being that a hammer wouldn't occur and thus it being perfectly safe is interesting, and then alongside the theory that Bazuf simply was never active while a good time to pull the vote was there is interesting, but you would think a scum would be a lot more careful about that prospect, especially with a roleblocker partner.

The thing to note here is that Bazuf is still new, might not actually understand how important the Roleblocker actually is.

Okay, but why post it though? Kind of reads like a convincer to me that other people should vote for happy.

How exactly is it convincing people to vote for happy?

Why post it is a weird one, i'd point out that he has to post SOMETHING about happy given the E-1 and what Happy did, maybe he couldn't think of a better more conspicuous way to word it (and it's not like it's possible to notice that early on anyway)

[ChicagoTypewriter]

I actually agree, no need to promote a hammer when the final decision of the day should come from the masons...


I imagine scum!Jason to easily let this slide and leave it be, so KFC could hammer, for example.
And then if happy flips town, would cause a mislim improving Jasons probabilities to win.

Next day I’d be probably be targeted, causing a second mislim and a scum!Jason win.

I don't see why would scum!Jason argue against this, unless the scum team is happy/Jason, which I find highly unlikely.
And even so, I think scum!Jason would let this roll, because probably next day we’d target KFC, and EoL would be Jason/CT/Bazuf and in that scenario I’d probably vote on CT…

So this makes me believe that Jason is town.

Bazuf, I present to you your own argument as to why JasonWazza is town and I shouldn't vote him. What say you?

[Bazuf]

Also why are you so focused on trying to work out if CT is onboard with Jason!Scum rather then just going based on your read?

Are you worried that CT might end up voting you instead of me?

I’m trying to discuss this equally as the town should do on ELO.
On the other hand you seem to be rushing things…

Also why are you so focused on trying to work out if CT is onboard with Jason!Scum rather then just going based on your read?

Are you worried that CT might end up voting you instead of me?

Why do you not want Bazuf and I to discuss things?

Why indeed??
After all his follow-up posts why do you think is that Chicago?

You know what, i might regret this call, but i'm going to make it, CT reads more town to me right now, and like he is actively trying to work out who is town and who is scum, whereas Bazuf feels like he is just trying to see who is agreeable, and BB/Leek have made me question my CT read enough that i'm gonna make the call.

VOTE: Bazuf

No fucking way this vote would come from a townie.
Rushing things on ELO when we have so much time to discuss...

You really revealed yourself there.
VOTE: JasonWazza

Its funny how you said so many times that I was a confirmed townie with the happy lim, and now you decide to vote me thinking me as the weakest link


Chicago, if you have any questions about my game, please ask away.
The Masons tought Jason was scum and he got all rilled up about it… funny how things work.

[Bazuf]

I actually agree, no need to promote a hammer when the final decision of the day should come from the masons...


I imagine scum!Jason to easily let this slide and leave it be, so KFC could hammer, for example.
And then if happy flips town, would cause a mislim improving Jasons probabilities to win.

Next day I’d be probably be targeted, causing a second mislim and a scum!Jason win.

I don't see why would scum!Jason argue against this, unless the scum team is happy/Jason, which I find highly unlikely.
And even so, I think scum!Jason would let this roll, because probably next day we’d target KFC, and EoL would be Jason/CT/Bazuf and in that scenario I’d probably vote on CT…

So this makes me believe that Jason is town.

Bazuf, I present to you your own argument as to why JasonWazza is town and I shouldn't vote him. What say you?

Chicago, town will lose...
Give me time to answer properly, we still have a lot of time...

[Bazuf]

I actually agree, no need to promote a hammer when the final decision of the day should come from the masons...


I imagine scum!Jason to easily let this slide and leave it be, so KFC could hammer, for example.
And then if happy flips town, would cause a mislim improving Jasons probabilities to win.

Next day I’d be probably be targeted, causing a second mislim and a scum!Jason win.

I don't see why would scum!Jason argue against this,

unless the scum team is happy/Jason

, which I find highly unlikely.
And even so, I think scum!Jason would let this roll, because probably next day we’d target KFC, and EoL would be Jason/CT/Bazuf and in that scenario I’d probably vote on CT…

So this makes me believe that Jason is town.

Bazuf, I present to you your own argument as to why JasonWazza is town and I shouldn't vote him. What say you?

Chicago, town will lose...
Give me time to answer properly, we still have a lot of time...

There's why... I didn't want to think Jason was scum, but the only explanation for him not liming was if the team was happy/Jason, which it is...

[Bazuf]

We still have a lot of time, don't play into Jasons game and don't try to rush things...
That's what he wants for the scum to win...

Lets talk and I'll clarify any questions you have, we have time!

[Bazuf]

Jason is a very experienced player...
He said many times that I was 100% townie with the whole happy lim... only now he voted me using the newbie argument...
Come on...

You know that Jason knows better than this.
He's trying to rush your decision and end the game, do you think that's a town move??

[JasonWazza]

I'm not rushing CT at all just to be clear, he has all the time he needs.

[JasonWazza]

The Masons tought Jason was scum and he got all rilled up about it… funny how things work.

Also regarding this, i'm guessing that it was more a PoE using town clears over actually scum reading me, though we can't really confirm that because they didn't actually tell us properly.

[JasonWazza]

941: Wait is your point that i was trying to protect Happy?

The fuck are you on about?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

I'm not rushing CT at all just to be clear, he has all the time he needs.

Let the record show that, in fact, you definitely are, not in word but in deed.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

941: Wait is your point that i was trying to protect Happy?

The fuck are you on about?

You were trying to push a KKFC/CT scumpair on Day 3. Just saying.

[JasonWazza]

Just to be clear, me voting is not rushing anything, if anything it's to give who i believe is town more time to analyze from a confirmed nature.