NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Empire]

Titus replaces Cephrir.

[Titus]

I am here. Not reading all of this tonight.

[Sakura Hana]

The heck just happened?

[pieguyn]

234 page replace in weak. 358 page replace in is the strongest \o/

[geists]

I think Nacho could be appealing to you specifically trying to outmaneuver your scumhunting of him. Not everyone reads him in the same way and if he knows what you look for, he could manipulate it to make you townread him even while everyone else scumreads him.

I'll take your read under advisement. I'm not sure whether the rest of the playerlist will do it. Nacho is one of the few people that I can rarely read correctly early on. I consider his entire body of work to get a read on him and that'll take a while to develop.

There's no question that Nacho has recently outmaneuvered me in some games. So, I'm cautious. And, I also have a body of work approach to reading him, which means that my read is constantly being reevaluated.

I do find, though, that there's a default-scum-read sentiment around him, especially in large games, that isn't necessarily correct but does gain a head of steam as the game progresses. And I find sometimes that I wind up fighting that sentiment more and more aggressively as the game days pass. NY165, NY164 are good examples. The Dr Who game is another example, though of a different sort, where I went from null to scum and then the read did a summersault based on one short interaction on day 2.

When I along with most of the players aren't scumreading him seems to be the games where he's scum.

I'll have to go back and look at Tammy's day 1 take.
]

[Ms Marangal]

UNVOTE:

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

One of things I look for is whether he is leading lynches on scum. In BB:HoH mafia, I had an easy townread on his hydra (although the read was heavily influenced by Tammy who was a lot more transparent). Mostly, it was because he had two scum pegged and pushed for their "eviction" (essentially a lynch, see the game mechanics). It worries me that he doesn't have a single strong scumread or pushed the lynches of any scum so far. I'll know he is town once he lynches multiple scum. He did make the SSK push and that alleviates my doubts somewhat but I haven't seen much else since then in the way of leading scum lynches.

[fferyllt]

Also, I'd kinda like your thoughts about Thor, F-16.

[geists]

Also, I'd kinda like your thoughts about Thor, F-16.

blah

[Ms Marangal]

Nacho, I am scumreading you because your reads are too PC (politically correct). You have the read that you

have

to have in order to not set off alarm bells for players like ffery. There is nothing new and exciting about them.

I seriously hope someone like Regfan replaces in.

this is an incrediby dumb reason to scum-read nacho. His reads can be shit as town, and his reads can can be low key as town. I have direct experience with that

Pedit: jesus, no

[geists]

One of things I look for is whether he is leading lynches on scum. In BB:HoH mafia, I had an easy townread on his hydra (although the read was heavily influenced by Tammy who was a lot more transparent). Mostly, it was because he had two scum pegged and pushed for their "eviction" (essentially a lynch, see the game mechanics). It worries me that he doesn't have a single strong scumread or pushed the lynches of any scum so far. I'll know he is town once he lynches multiple scum. He did make the SSK push and that alleviates my doubts somewhat but I haven't seen much else since then in the way of leading scum lynches.

You have to keep in mind that he'll bus in a heartbeat as scum.

[Ms Marangal]

WHAT JUST HAPPENED

A bunch load of replacements. Thoughts?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, I am scumreading you because your reads are too PC (politically correct). You have the read that you

have

to have in order to not set off alarm bells for players like ffery. There is nothing new and exciting about them.

I seriously hope someone like Regfan replaces in.

this is an incrediby dumb reason to scum-read nacho.

His reads can be shit as town

, and

his reads can can be low key as town

. I have direct experience with that

Pedit: jesus, no

The bolded is not a reason I am scumreading him, but rather a reason I don't have a townread yet.

I assume by "low key", you mean reads that go with the flow which is what I accused Nacho of. I don't have experience with him doing it as town. Links?

[Ms Marangal]

One of things I look for is whether he is leading lynches on scum. In BB:HoH mafia, I had an easy townread on his hydra (although the read was heavily influenced by Tammy who was a lot more transparent). Mostly, it was because he had two scum pegged and pushed for their "eviction" (essentially a lynch, see the game mechanics). It worries me that he doesn't have a single strong scumread or pushed the lynches of any scum so far. I'll know he is town once he lynches multiple scum. He did make the SSK push and that alleviates my doubts somewhat but I haven't seen much else since then in the way of leading scum lynches.

He will lead mis-lynches on town, as town. Him not having a single strong scum-read isn't a means for concern, and frankly it's Burden of Proficiency. That's pretty much all I've heard RE scumcho and it's all GM can give me at best. Cabd believed that the points I touched upon for towncho wasn't good enough so I gave him a chance to directly interact with him, and hoped he could see exactly what I see but :/

[Ms Marangal]

Sixty game, is the most recent one.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ffery, Thor's posts make me cringe. I don't want to comment on them. They are probably the most blatantly useless and anti-town posts I've seen anyone make.

Nacho in my experience doesn't usually bus but there are a few markers I look for regarding how and who he busses.

[Ms Marangal]

But, he's also had "go with the flow" reads in our first hydra game, as well.

I also think that, there were a few newbie games I was stalking featured him going with the flow.

Pedit: so?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll look through Sixty game when I find time. What are the points you touched upon for town-Nacho? Are they the same ones you posted on D1?

[Ms Marangal]

Yep

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But, he's also had "go with the flow" reads in our first hydra game, as well.

I also think that, there were a few newbie games I was stalking featured him going with the flow.

Pedit: so?

What are you referring to? My opinion of Thor's posts or Nacho's bussing tendencies?

[Ms Marangal]

Thor's posts.

[Ms Marangal]

because, he is actually the stronger source for the Casso-townread and I don't see how him being anti-town makes him scum

[Casso the King of Seals]

ffery, Thor's posts make me cringe. I don't want to comment on them. They are probably the most blatantly useless and anti-town posts I've seen anyone make.

Say wha? Where is this ridiculous attack coming from? My posts have been, at worst, the posts of a player catching up with a game he has not read all of - which to my mind is a null tell because, shocker, there's no reason for me to fake that if I'm scum.

So where is this hostility and issue coming from? Be specific, I'd like to hear it.

[goodmorning]

He will lead mis-lynches on town, as town. Him not having a single strong scum-read isn't a means for concern, and frankly it's Burden of Proficiency. That's pretty much all I've heard RE scumcho and it's all GM can give me at best. Cabd believed that the points I touched upon for towncho wasn't good enough so I gave him a chance to directly interact with him, and hoped he could see exactly what I see but :/

When did I pull BoP?
I don't do that anymore.

Quite frankly my biggest issues with them are their dissonance and a general bad feeling over most of their early posts. And, as I said in the QT, I'll be happy to go into it more tomorrow. Today is my Casso-off day.

[Titus]

Can someone give me a summary of outed claims (if any) so I can compare when I start reading?

Also, holy scumballs, did someone give this game crack? (Mean this in a good way. That's my kind of game.)