NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[mathcam]

I believe that once chamber moves back to poro, we're at L-1.

[VitaminR]

So, and I want to get this straight.

I inherit lurkaderpa slot, call a super easy to hop on myslynch town because they were town AND then leap down the throat of my buddy?

I didn't need to make a huge case on STD, because giant cases are a waste of time. That response to zor was enough for me to want fire. His constant smirk was enough to be sure of it.

I'm struggling with this against how little sense you-scum makes with that early d1 stuff but good lord

I agree that it doesn't sound like the smartest move and that part of it certainly speaks in your favor. I guess I just have a lot of trouble understanding sure how you get a strong scum read out of this:

Zorblag is town.

Since he was observing the game as town, all he has to do is dump his suspicions and it looks like he's made a big contribution. If he's scum, it takes 5 minutes to edit if he's nailed his scum partners, and that's even if he wants to. He certainly doesn't have to.

Since he included his replacee in his assessment, it is clear to me he made these notes with a town mindset (before he replaced). Now he has a pro-town artifact that may or may not be damning to scum.

His barf post, while an interesting read, does little to tell us about his alignment. I suppose if he were scum he could have not posted it, but I don't really see a reason not to.

Is your scumputer crap?

I feel like a bunch of people said something like the first thing (correct me if I didn't pick out the right post) and didn't everyone sort of think the second one? I could have easily said both of these things, though perhaps not in the same tone. It's just a little mysterious to me how you picked him out as scum on the basis of these two posts.

[VitaminR]

Yes. There's so many players left, including two useless hard-to-read lurker slots (SpyreX, OGML). Even if we exclude you and me and all of the pairs you list, how about MBL, or GC, or BooKitty, or Poro? Are you so certain of all of your reads? I can easily think of lots of four-player scum groups that fit your constraints. It seems totally fake to claim that one of DGB and StD has to be scum.

MBL? GC? Bookitty? Poro? Really?

GC has far more town cred then most people in the game do, bookitty is very unlikely to be scum, and MBL is obvtown. You're really reaching here.

Fine.

unvote:VitR

vote:Porochaz

Doesn't give us as much information, but

I would be pretty surprised if Prozac flips town at this point

, and getting the scum group down to 2 members should make it a lot harder for town to screw this one up.

(Bolding mine.) In the space of a couple of hours!

Can we lynch Yos now?

[VitaminR]

I had an issue with stance as well now you bring it up again and the explanation still doesn't ring true to me, but there is a lot to his posts that make me feel like he is town. Post 3684 for one just hits all the right spots with me. I am extremely torn here. I think I need to look though day one again to really see how Yos' break down of the day rings true.

I agree he sort of has a point about the dichotomy thing. But don't give Yos a free pass because he picked on the weakest part of my case while ignoring the other parts of it.

[chamber]

Yos's about-face on Porochaz is the scummiest thing I've seen so far from him this game. Maybe from anyone.

And yet you have no problem voting for poro still? It's given me pause.

[mathcam]

Well, the situation it evokes is one of Yos and poro being scum together, and Yos reluctantly realizing that despite a full game of running under the radar, the poro lynch is actually quite viable. So he figures he's running out of scumbuddies, and has to play his cards pretty carefully, dissuading the poro bandwagon as long as he feasibly can before it's inevitable, at which point he has to whole-heartedly be in support of it. So while he starts off eager to propose alternative lynches ("Sure, poro is one option, but you know, I was just thinking that there's

also

a mathcam over there...amirite?), he quickly converts to looking like he wasn't opposed to the lynch via a flimsy excuse ("Sure, I always knew poro was scum, was just trying for a better information lynch"), intense buddying ("Hey, obvtown buddies! No way I'd vote for you!") and threatening (e.g., "the only way poro is town is if you're scum").

None of this suspicion makes a ton of sense if poro is town (it'd be easier for Yosscum to play it being opposed to the poro lynch than the rigamarole he actually did), so from my perspective it doesn't make sense to go after Yos first. That said, there really is a lot that doesn't feel right about the last few posts from Yos. He's moved up to my #2 scumminess slot.

[Yosarian2]

Yos's about-face on Porochaz is the scummiest thing I've seen so far from him this game. Maybe from anyone.

And yet you have no problem voting for poro still? It's given me pause.

Yeah, mathcam is really creeping me out in the last two pages.

unvote:porochaz

vote:mathcam

He's the most obvious scum at this point anyway.

[Yosarian2]

I mean, especally this paragraph:

Well, the situation it evokes is one of Yos and poro being scum together, and Yos reluctantly realizing that despite a full game of running under the radar, the poro lynch is actually quite viable. So he figures he's running out of scumbuddies, and has to play his cards pretty carefully, dissuading the poro bandwagon as long as he feasibly can before it's inevitable, at which point he has to whole-heartedly be in support of it. So while he starts off eager to propose alternative lynches ("Sure, poro is one option, but you know, I was just thinking that there's

also

a mathcam over there...amirite?), he quickly converts to looking like he wasn't opposed to the lynch via a flimsy excuse ("Sure, I always knew poro was scum, was just trying for a better information lynch"), intense buddying ("Hey, obvtown buddies! No way I'd vote for you!") and threatening (e.g., "the only way poro is town is if you're scum").

That, frankly, just makes it sound to me like mathcam is scum, possibly scum with porochaz.

But all day, his posting has been really bad. Taking seriously the idea that I'm scum with VitR, trying to manipulate the masons, ect.

His comment on page 149 about how he's been going after porochaz for most of the game gives me pause. But, honestly, if that does mean that mathcam and porochaz aren't scum together, then out of the pair, it's mathcam who looks worse.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote mathcam

[mathcam]

Really, ABR?

[Albert B. Rampage]

You didn't defend me against MBL's terrible vote, what did you expect?

[mathcam]

I mean, especally this paragraph:

You mean, the paragraph in which I attacked you? Funny that that would give you pause.

That, frankly, just makes it sound to me like mathcam is scum, possibly scum with porochaz.

I had the courtesy of detailing

how

your posting evoked my Yos-poro-scum-radar. All you've got is "it sounds like"?

But all day, his posting has been really bad. Taking seriously the idea that I'm scum with VitR, trying to manipulate the masons, ect.

"It's not impossible" is a bit shy of "taking seriously," but regardless, I'd consider any scumpairing that had an argument to back it up. Trying to manipulate the masons? By saying "Nice post!" Or am I missing the substantive part of your argument. "ect"? Yeah, nice way to make it look like 2 tremendously trivial acts are part of a great conspiracy of scummy things I've done.

You didn't defend me against MBL's terrible vote, what did you expect?

Fair point.

His comment on page 149 about how he's been going after porochaz for most of the game gives me pause. But, honestly, if that does mean that mathcam and porochaz aren't scum together, then out of the pair, it's mathcam who looks worse.

Okay, do tell. Why did that give you pause? Because you think it's false? Or because of how I brought it up? Note that it was in response to your "theory" that porochaz and I are scum together, and I can't honestly believe you think that's likely.

[Yosarian2]

I mean, especally this paragraph:

You mean, the paragraph in which I attacked you? Funny that that would give you pause.

The paragraph where you try to link me to porochaz, right after saying that my porochaz vote was "the scummiest thing you've seen all game".

(

I had the courtesy of detailing

how

your posting evoked my Yos-poro-scum-radar. All you've got is "it sounds like"?

It sounded off, like either an attempt to link me to porochaz either becuse you knew he was scum, or, more likely, because you wanted to attack me while still voting porochaz. It just didn't feel right. None of your posting today has.

"It's not impossible" is a bit shy of "taking seriously," but regardless, I'd consider any scumpairing that had an argument to back it up. Trying to manipulate the masons? By saying "Nice post!" Or am I missing the substantive part of your argument. "ect"? Yeah, nice way to make it look like 2 tremendously trivial acts are part of a great conspiracy of scummy things I've done.

None of your suspicions today really make sense to me. You're entertaining all kinds of ideas that just seem to be obviously wrong. And that really sounds like scum in a corner to me. The only way for scum to defeat the POE grindstone at this point is for them to try to convince the town that some of the possibilities they've eliminated should still be viable suspcets.

His comment on page 149 about how he's been going after porochaz for most of the game gives me pause. But, honestly, if that does mean that mathcam and porochaz aren't scum together, then out of the pair, it's mathcam who looks worse.

Okay, do tell. Why did that give you pause? Because you think it's false? Or because of how I brought it up? Note that it was in response to your "theory" that porochaz and I are scum together, and I can't honestly believe you think that's likely.

It gave me pause because it makes sense, and because you're right, that does lower the odds of you and porochaz being scum together. Your paragraph this pages that tried to tie me to porochaz leans in the other way, but still.

Somewhat ironically, though, by lowering in my mind the possibility of you and porochaz being scum together, it makes me want to lynch porochaz less and lynch you more. When I was convinced that both you and porochaz had to be scum together, I didn't care which one of you we lynched today, but you have a valid point there and now I'm thinking that that might not be true.

If only one of the two of you is scum, then I'm thinking it's more likely to be you, based on your behavior during the LML wagon and on your behavior during the STD wagon, and because I did have a strong town read on porochaz for most of the game, even though he's been worthless lately. (That would also mean that ANOTHER one of my town reads is wrong, AGAIN, sigh.)

[mathcam]

Alright, fair enough. This situation is pretty amusing.

[Juls]

I'm reading now and can I just say that you guys should be ashamed of lynching Glork. Terrible reasons! Granted I still have a ways to go in day 2 but this guy is bleeding green at this point. (Yes, yes confirmation bias...but still!)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Glork was pushed by PJ/undo/KK and was a compromise deadline lynch. There was nothing to be done.

[undo]

A breakdown of VitR's posts since my summarized case against him back in Day 3.

2131 - Defends himself against that case. Not convincing enough in my opinion.
2132 - Agrees. "I basically agree with Yos on StD" (that StD is town)
2136 - Defends himself (against ABR)
2208 - Avoids. "Really busy today"
2251 - Defends himself (against MBL)
2252 -

Willing to lynch Sotty (largest wagon); doesn't explain why

2286 - Defends himself (against Yos)
2287 - Neutral/suspects Sotty (largest wagon)
2300/01 - Questions Sotty
2318 - Defends himself (against Yos)
2319 -

Votes Sotty (6th vote with 9 to lynch). Reason: "I still think her play with regard to LML looked bad and her votes have largely been easy ones". Agrees with matcham against Sotty

2424 - Votes Yosarian
2515 - "Did not see that mason claim coming" (the exact same comment he made after PJ's claim.). Defends himself against Yos.

2525 - Q: "undo, you know things have happened in the game since you posted that case [against me], right?" A: see above

2526 - "OGML looks good"
2632 - Defends himself (against GC)
2633 - Defends himself (against Yos)
2634 - Defends himself (against PJ)
2635 - Defends himself (against MBL)
2648 - Defends himself (against GC)
2650 - Complains about the lack of consensus
2655 - Defends himself (against GC)
2717 - Attacks Yos ("Yos is kinda coming unhinged [...] almost megalomaniacal and totally paranoid"); willing to lynch DGB
2735 - Neutral
2740 -

"I have much less confidence in my ability to read you [DGB]" trying to justify his willingness to vote DGB over CES. Isn't this a bit contradictory?

2744 - Complains about the game not moving forward.
2805 - "DGB looks really town" after all
2829/30 - "Not particularly eager to hammer CES. Hopefully my streak of being totally wrong will continue". Afraid to look scummy? Trying to keep coherence with his past positions?
2849 - Votes Yosarian. Feels the need to point out that he was right about CES.
2885 - Questions MBL's defense of Yos.
2886 - Defends himself (against Yos)
2944 - Defends himself (against Yos)
2947 - Defends StD
2948 - Defends himself (against OGML). "Leans town on DGB".
2953 - Semi-neutral
2994 - Defends StD
2997 - Defends StD
3030 - Comment about PJ replacing out
2088 - Questions Yos
3168 - Agrees with chamber against Yos
3209 -

"Not a fan of GC's willingness to go with two easy wagons (DGB and StD)".

But the day before, VitR had expressed willingness to lynch Sotty and DGB.

3210 - Attacks Yos
3244 - Disagrees with Yos when he says "I think there has to be exactly one scum in the group of (DGB, STD)"
3245 - "I was just noting that you [GC] seem the most content to be on these wagons without doing any digging of your own, just sitting back and letting other people do the hard work." Again, pretty much the same thing VitR was doing.
3296 - Continues to disagree with Yos
3298 - "FYI, I don't think that I ever said that I'll vote StD. I'd rather lynch one of our useless lurker slots than StD."
3299 - Obvious and useless comment about Spyrex's slot.
3498 - (after StD's claim) "I knew DGB was town!"
3499 - "Yos look better"
3507 - Attacks Yos
3555 - Not willing to lynch CDB
3557 - Votes Yos
3570 - Attacks Yos
3659 - Defends CDB
3622 -

Main suspects: Yos and Spyrex. Also suspects GC. Seems like he suspects the people who attack him the most (and whoever occupies the lurkslot)

3661 - "Doesn't care" about ABR's vote.
3662 - More beef with Yos
3665 - Explains why he scumreads Spyrex even though he pushed for StD's lynch
3667 - Defends himself (against ABR)
3669 -

When MBL asks him to compare Spyrex's push on StD with VitR's push on LML, he says "SpyreX's case seemed to have been based on a relatively small part of StD's overall contributions". However, VitR was calling LML outright scum on page 4.

3677 - Points out inconsistency in Yos's reasoning. Fair.
3678 - Case against Yos
3685 - Counterarguments Yos
3688/693/701/726 - Reiterates argument about Spyrex. I don't really understand this part, though: "I'm not sure why SpyreX was so certain about his StD read and that gives me pause"/"I never said that SpyreX is likely scum because of his certainty"
3727 - Attacks Yos


my interpretation: most of VitR's posts since Day 3 have consisted of self-defense and Yos-attacking. Plus there's a fair deal of agreeing and very little original scumhunting, all with generally careful wording. Once again, compare this with his first posts of the game. I still think it doesn't add up.

Obviously this doesn't clear Yos out.

But for now I have no problem in repeating my VOTE: VitR

[undo]

Willing to lynch matcham and Porochaz too. The former because it has always been in my suspect list, the latter because he annoys me (even though he is probably town).

[undo]

OK, maybe I wouldn't vote Porochaz without doing at least a reread on his ISO.

[Porochaz]

I skipped a chunk as I realised a lot of the stuff I was going over was irrelevant now. If someone disagrees and wants my opinion on something then you can link it.

The last 10 pages of Day 3 was my primary reading for today. (so far) Now I don't think anyone comes out of that chunk of pie looking good. I mean seriously, people should look at the end of day 3. I mean look at ABR's voting in those 10 pages alone, someone, anyone, (not ABR) tell me thats town voting? Its not just him though, look at all the mad scrambling and chaos and people tripping over one another.

[Porochaz]

OK, maybe I wouldn't vote Porochaz without doing at least a reread on his ISO.

Please, don't stretch yourself...

[Porochaz]

25 pages left to read, and yep, Im going after ABR, when he has decided to follow DGB, he has been like her lap dog, when he hasn't he's been throwing piles of shit to see what sticks. He finds scum in anyone who disagrees with his opinions and really, someone else tell me, what has he done other than make half assed stances that he has changed a couple of pages (if that) later? He sews discord around you all and you let him.

vote abr

[Albert B. Rampage]

Looks pretty town to me Porochaz.

[Albert B. Rampage]

vote: porochaz

[chamber]

sigh.

Vote Porochaz