Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[copper223]

Yo fellows,

VOTE: Cabd

[copper223]

@Cabd
Good idea.

I was a flavour conditional cop, on any given night I could either investigate the flavour name of a player or submit a flavour name for a player and receive his alignment if the name was correct.

It was specificid in my PM that I could be possibly role blocked or that there might have been abilities to mess around with me finding out the correct alignment/flavour.

VOTE: T-Bone

[copper223]

In changing your RVS vote so quickly, are you declaring a weak townread on me, or...?

Yup.

[copper223]

@Ceph.
Are you in a bad mood? You seem needlessly antagonistic compared to the baseline I am used to.

[copper223]

Also against all forms of PL.

[copper223]

@Reck
I don't think what Cabd did there was setup speculating for the sake of it there, when he pulled the setup spec. card in Poe he tried to influence what we believed about it whereas here he made it an open discussion, the PL I am not so fond of because I've seen scum hide behind it to avoid having to find legit reasons to scumread players they know are town, so if that's all he does I'll reconsider, for now this seems, tonewise as well, more like the Rome town Cabd rather than the Poe scum Medea.

I haven't decided if your push is legit town or scum finding something to push on, I think I am biased on this read cause I didn't appreciate your playstile the first time we played so I want to scumread you, which might funnily enough make me overcompensate towards town when I shouldn't if that makes sense.

@NS
I have a light townread here due to meta, some negative utiliy with a 10-3 is to be expected as well so I buy the claim for today.

@Tier/Ceph
Leaning fence/town here as well.

@Icerint
You had a flavour name to go with your tracker role, correct?

@T-bone
Super pumped you rolled scum without needing tokens?

[copper223]

You are posting in this game.

[copper223]

Too bad your scumgame got worse and good for your towngame that you changed your way since october 2014 then, if I get different information than expected on you I will re-evaluate.

[copper223]

@NS
I have information on your activity and it looks indicative to me, if that's not the case I should be able to tell in 48hrs ~, this looks like a player denying a scumtell on them is valid.

[copper223]

What's the pro-town benefit of setup speculation discussion? It's not even current setup spec -- it's setup spec from a completely unrelated game. It is not productive, it's anti-productive. It's a distraction. I don't particularly give a shit about meta or anything, so that piece of the argument falls flat for me. For me, analyzing that within the context of this game alone, it's sketchy.

At least you can admit your bias.

You don't know if there is a correlation between the roles of the prior setup and the new ones, from the roles you all said you received I suspect there is one so the discussion is not useless, there are other ways where discussion of past roles can be useful as well.

I could make the same argument for RVS you just mad for Cabd proposing that discussion, it's not productive because all of us here know how it goes, it's anti-productive, it's a distraction, it's scum indicative that you RVS voted ... (if you space the logical jumps from A to D by putting in B and C to make it look reasonable it still is absurd when you connect the dots).

I do think it's possible you are strirring things up as town and some pressure on Cabd is fine by me.

[copper223]

I don't get most of the current hate on Shos btw, I am in a similar position regarding what he said about not being able to give decent reads with the amount of content that we have at the time, at the moment I'd lynch one of Reck/Who but would I hammer one of them? Hell no.

I had a different cause of concern, he has been echoing posts from other players like my fence/town read on Ceph/TS, I'd like some original content if possible.

@LLD
You are laying it a bit thick with the: I wanted to play scum but the leak screwed me attitude, I get you couldn't be very motivated to play, but it is starting to look like an excuse to cover being scummy with being derpy.

[copper223]

This game is pretty high-profile and run by smart people. There's absolutely no way they would allow setup spec based on the previous game to be useful for town here -- that would be terrible modding. I expect there is exactly the same amount of correlation you would see between any two Magua games. So unless you normally do buckets of mod meta, we can stop anytime.

No matter how smart Magua is he doesn't live in a vacuum, he had 1 day to make a new setup and he had the roles from his previous game fresh in mind, so I guarantee he is going to re-use some ideas.

The point of the RVS example was not to compare the validity of the two, it was to highlight how Reck made a series of unjustified logical leaps to land to his conclusion.

[copper223]

Because T-Bone hasn't done anything to make me change my vote and nobody else has passed the threshold to where I think a vote on them would be beneficial, I don't appreciate questions on how I choose to play, unless you want to make them alignment relevant?

[copper223]

Did you just miss the time when there was a little momentum towards Reck, because otherwise that would've been a great time to apply pressure.

My position on Reck is in my ISO.

[copper223]

I think that's a player telling us who he thinks is more likely to be scum.

[copper223]

also

@mod: isn't Katsuki due a prod?

[copper223]

@mod
Thanks

@Ceph
I am all for interacting, if you don't try and push me around

@Rhinox
Qualify your statements, you don't like as in you find the scummy or on a personal level, and what posting in particular?

@All
I thought the numbers might have been Katsuki with a post restriction, that's why I asked about the prod but I did not factor in she would not have been prodded yet anyway.

[copper223]

That's hilarious on so many levels Tier:

- I am bold as fuck when I play scum.

- One of the reasons why Sthar8 townread me in the game we just played together was me being conciliatory for the sake of information gathering.

- I just finished butting heads with Ceph.

Are you bored with this game and scum claiming?

[copper223]

ffs learn to play (assuming my prior townread of you is correct, otherwise this is more a reminder for myself not to rely on my early game reads too much when contrary evidence is presented)... I was happy with: Tier is probably town because he is relating true and valuable information about Cabd and I had the same read on Ceph. that despite the posting which I did not fully agree with he is probably town here, I was also thinking I may have been a bit harsh with Ceph. cause working in a cutthroat environment I am used to cutting people off at the knees as soon as they try to muscle in, then I have to read this from you, pretty off-putting.

I am reinforcing nothing, that just underscores how bad that read is and you should know better by now.

[copper223]

This doesn't make any sense to me. You're OK lynching one of Reck or Who but you don't want to be the one to hammer? Or what are you actually saying? Just seems overly cautious / going-with-the-flow-y. Why are you afraid of taking a solid stance?

I see, what I mean with this is I found these two players in particular the scummiest but I would not go through with hammering them, if I were voting for them and someone put them at L-1 I would unvote and I would not hammer them if I were not on the wagon.

Why are you interpreting my motivations to fit a scum mo? There is a difference between not having a good enough read to lynch someone and being afraid of something, you don't know what I am thinking so why are you putting forwards this particular motive?

This doesn't make any sense to me either. What are you trying to say? Why is asking about how you choose to play off limits?

Again this is not what I said, if Ceph. wants to know something about how I play to read me better, fair and good, what I thought Ceph. was doing was trying to strong arm me into following him on Reck and questioning me for not doing so, not because he found it alignment relevant, but because he wanted me to, and backseat gaming is what is off limits for me.

[copper223]

I am starting to lean town on Reckoner despite my inner wishes.

If Cabd is scum, probably so is Tiershift, Cabd being scum would explain why he was making sense on that read in particular.

[copper223]

So you think it's null or is it actually a towntell for him?

[copper223]

@Tier
The kind of information you shared on Cabd is useful, so I would put a premium on and not disclose it as scum unless there was a good reason to do so, as a soft deflection for a teammate it makes sense, it also makese sense for you as town to say. You did give a read, you implied null to town with the post about Cabd being thorough and that you find his behavior wrt setup spec. in line with his play, don't try to weasel out of it preemptively covering yourself in case Cabd starts playing lurkscum as is his want lately when he rolls that.

[copper223]

@Ceph.
Assumimg you are town here, which think pretty likely, I want to play with you as scum to see if you have a good read on me or if you just call me town all the time.

[copper223]

I said it's in line with his play, with what he usually does. That is not the same as saying that it's the same as what town-him usually does. He's currently lurking which I do associate with his scumgame. I'm not weaseling out of anything. What is your read on cabd, then?

You said so in reply to Reckoner scumreading him for it, so unless you are now claiming you posted fluff for the sake of it the purpose of the information you gave was to deny that was actually a valid tell for Cabd, you are therefore implying at the same time that he is either null or town for you based on the lack of anything scummy in his ISO till that point.

My read on Cabd started out as potentially town for thinking of what I consider a good avenue of analysis and is trending towards scum the more he keeps his thoughts to himself. Since it's pretty apparent what my read of Cabd is from my ISO, why are you asking me about?

[copper223]

@Tier
There is very little difference between us wrt to the Cabd read, that's the point, I am backtracking on my initial impression precisely because like you said that seemed like an approach Cabd would choose to start solving the game, to me it looked indicative of Cabd town, but now that he is back to lurk-mode he is looking increasingly scummy and Reck might have been right on his read of the situation, the difference is my read is in the open for all to see whereas you are trying to hide having given one in the first place, plus you attacked Reck way more than I did, all signs that make a Cabd/Tier/x team more likely.

VOTE: Cabd

[copper223]

Who has gotta be town right?

[copper223]

but now that he is back to lurk-mode he is looking increasingly scummy and Reck might have been right on his read of the situation, the difference is my read is in the open for all to see whereas you are trying to hide having given one in the first place, plus you attacked Reck way more than I did, all signs that make a Cabd/Tier/x team more likely.

1. Cabd being scum doesn't just make Reck 'right' about the situation, that's preposterous. His initial attack on cabd was scummy and you agreed on that with me. What does cabd's alignment have to do with that?

I simply have not given a read at all. Please quote where I did.

And what does me attacking reck have to do with me being buddies with cabd or not?

My position on Reck is not how you described it, what I said at the time was: I am still making up my mind whether his attack was scummy or not and that it depended a lot on what Cabd, whom I was lightly townreading at the time, would do, so how exactly did I agree with you?

Because there was

obviously

no intent to avoid engaging this game by cabd and you made it seem like there was.

This says you are ok with Cabd's post, you then go further on covering your back with the: I've seen Cabd lurk as scum... but it's too early to tell.

The last question doesn't merit an answer, if you are teammates you have a vested interest in him not being early wagoned and lynched but you also don't want to tie your fate to a player that has shown he might lurk and get himself quickly lynched as scum, this is how I interpret the deflection I quoted, which was part of your Reck campaign. Why are you so worried about a TS/Cabd connection?

[copper223]

@Mollie
Let's, what's your read on Ceph., I think he is town.

@Tier
If Cabd is scum I can well believe Reck being right that Cabd picked the setup spec. as white noise, and I will add since I have been thinking about it also as an oblique way to rolefish, and his PL on Who is an easy way to scumread someone.

You can deny all you want, that was a clear deflection and if Cabd flips scum barring other posts that make me change read on you I'm going to try my best to get you lynched next.

I also really dislike how inflexible you are being with your reads, that is very different from the TS that took 13 days to decide he'd rather NL and let us sort out the situation at lylo when you were town last time.

[copper223]

blegh, I don't feel so sure about you. Where would you suggest I vote? Not super up for cabd, would vote if needed.

I think Cabd is at the very least a fine pressure vote.

I don't get why T-Bone is supposed to be town either. I need someone to condense why shos is scummy, I do n't see it but I am also not townreading him, I really dislike the catch-up posting style he is using btw.

Mainly getting it right on Ceph. seems to be important for today cause he looks like a divisive read, spending some effort there also makes sense, he does seem town to me but he has been kind of pocketing me as well so not in the most objective spot to judge.

[copper223]

Also if Mollie doesn't start to try and assert control on how the game is going and on who she wants to push she is likely scum, I don't get why their team would have gone with that replacement though as her preference for playing town is well known, so still waiting to see what she comes up with but leaning town due to this.

[copper223]

@Mollie

ok here's my summary:

- Early on we had Cabd proposing we disclose our previous roles, and that we PL who (cause he often lurks all game from what I am reading behind the lines?)

- This lead to Reckoner scumreading Cabd for what he said is IIoA and hiding behind a PL so as not to scumhunt.

- This in turn made TS and Ceph. scumread Reck cause they say his attack was unjustified, forced and too quick.

- In the mean time Cabd hasn't posted anything relevant

- Ceph questioned me on not joining the Reck wagon which led to TS scumreading me for what he said was playing safe, after a few back and forths he now says he is unsure about me and is pressure voting Cabd.

- On the Ceph side there is also a sort of a 1v1 with shos going on, I asked for a summary myself about that, my main note about shos is he echoed off some reads of other players, whether it's sheeping to blend in or he is reading the game the same way is hard to tell, Rhinox is also behind the push and has been questioning some other players, he has 't received much attention from others himself.

- LLD claims to be butthurt that the reroll screwed her and that she has lost motivation to play, most seem to interpret this as town.

- T-Bone just wants to lynch everyone that calls him scummy as far as I can see, otherwise he has done nothing.

- NS is being townread by most players, a possible exception seems to be Icerint, NS claims he is holding his vote channelling his inner Ffery and is waiting for Cabd's catch-up. Icerint hasn't given much else away.

- Katsuki just ego posted.

[copper223]

Also NS is likely town because of meta as expected, had me wondering there for a while.

[copper223]

Yes pretty sure Mollie is town as well.

@Cabd
I saw you posting in a Newbie and that's when I decided some pressure was due, I am ok with the catch-up though.

@Mollie
Why is T-Bone town?

@NS
My bad, I thought there were more: noddy is town posts.

VOTE: Katsuki

[copper223]

@All
I like what they are doing in other games wrt to posting the team's reads and summaries of the PT discussions on players instead of just our own, would like to see that here as well more, I've asked my teammates for some reads.

[copper223]

Slept on it. Pretty sure copper is scum. I'll lay out the full reasons why after Easter dinner but the TL;DR is there's no actual thoughts behind his posts nor his pushes, and his back-off of me was likely pre-meditated. It certainly doesn't look organic.

the reason why I switched votes was what you said about me not checking your site-wide activity giving you pause, which is similar to the read you gave about me when you compared me to your early self in the newbie game we played, so it looked like a genuine effort to figure me out from what I know of your frame of reference wrt your read of copper. The rest is a bit insulting, tell me where my posts lack thought please.

[copper223]

@Mollie
Why is T-Bone town?

[copper223]

Are you trying to be inconsistent on purpose Tier?

@Katsuki
We have established you are not allowed to coast like you were doing before, now please play the game, what are your reads on the playerlist?

UNVOTE:

[copper223]

@Ice
What's Mala's read on Mollie?

[copper223]

Just because I don't have the time I used to have (moving and living with somebody does that) doesn't mean I'm lurking.

Here's why copper is scum:

He goes for an early townread on me. He does this against the grain (reck) while not actively hardpushing cabdtown.

Then he slowly starts to work his way towards "lurky cabd scum" because of meta. (I'll get back to meta in a moment)

Then when I show up, he immediately reverses course and town reads me.

Here's the thing. This slow fade on, off, on to gain acceptance is what he did as scum to me in a newbie I replaced into.

Given the speed and the lack of reasoning, the back off of "cabd is scum" was pre-meditated. Town does not per-meditate a read change unless gambit, and copper's not the gambit type.

I thought this was obviously my reasoning based on my prior post but I guess not.

Here's the other reason this doesn't work: Copper is also a meta guy, right? So why would he cite meta as "towncabd not lurk" when "lurk" has been my quote unquote default state ever since I moved to Chicago (5 months ago now!) and that happens in both towngames AND scumgames he's been in with me?

The comparison is really forced as you were not being scumread when you replaced in the other game, why do you think I would do the same thing is also a mystery to me. I explained my Cabd read in detail, here it is again: I initially thought the previuos game roles could be usefull for this game, I already know some are the same because my role is similar to one mentioned in a previous game which is pretty specific and makes me believe this setup is not so different, after Reck brought up the IIoA and you started lurking like you did in Poe, and as I said I saw you post in Rome, I started to look at it from scum's perspective and it also makes sense as an approach to rolefish, hence my change towards scum, in your latest post, which I replied to and you ignored, I explained what made me question Cabd scum, the amount of research you are putting in the copper read seems to indicate a genuine effort to try and read me.

Now substantiate your BS, what posts were shallow and why would you consider it scummy for me?

[copper223]

@Ceph
That is not a keyboard typo, it's a specific read switch he claims I would do in both games as scum, the comparison is pretty forced as I said, the objective in that game was to keep Cabd as a "town only I can read" read but that looks scummy so the rest would still follow my lead while I pocketed him and killed him off the next night phase, at no point did I give indication I was going to vote him or want him lynched; the question is if this is a genuine effort from Cabd to meta match trying to find scum or if this is self preservation.

What is your read on Cabd/copper?


@Mollie
I agree with your sister, if that is a true read, that you are not so easy to read this game, the intro looked town but that "precious" post and the T-Bone read are worrisome, I still want to read what Malakittens has to say about you.

I'll be reviewing shos but based on the number of players that want his scalp I am starting to think he is town, I don't believe in busses in this setup unless scum is dumb in which case we will win anyway, if shos is town Rhinox is my top scumread because he is fanning the flames without exposing himself like Ceph. is doing.

[copper223]

10-3 is what this setup tells me.

[copper223]

Plus I did not say I am townreading him, I need to review the whole thing but it's starting to smell, what I find shitty play from the players voting shos including you is the lack of a concise case despite the constant requests for one.

[copper223]

If Cabd is town Ceph is more likely to be scum for the above non-read.

[copper223]

That's how basic it gets, a D1 bus with that ratio is even more retarded than usual so given nobody besides perhaps Katsuki with his soft that he is 15-shot JOAT or Cabd if a scum jumped the gun when he started lurking is worth bussing, I am assuming for today that scum isn't likely going to do that.

I pretty much said what I said, if you want to simplify the meaning of my posts to the point they say something else it's all you.

My complaint, did you read my post where I include you, is that despite screaming for his lynch for pages you haven't given me 1 post summing up why he is scum.

Yes that's why I said more likely and not 100%.

[copper223]

Plus what do you mean probably, magua specified 10-3 in the setup description.

[copper223]

Until he gets lynched and then he can start flaming you post game for being a moron, totally worth it when townies D1 are so easy to scumread if you want to it's a joke. We can talk about my scumhunting tactics and how to improve them when you are able to read the setup description before the game.

[copper223]

ftr I wld rather you let the person am asking the question answer actually answer tia

The non-read he gave on Cabd/copper, I don't see why you wouldn't give your 2 cents as town.

[copper223]

I am bitchy tonight, got myself a cold @ work.

[copper223]

Anyway if you are coming off shos scum take a look at Rhinox, I need a shower.

[copper223]

My gut is telling me shos is scum after reading his latest posts, it's like you are explaining to a pupil (NS) what he has done incorrectly without real conviction behind the statements. as if it's a matter of how it's dobe instead of him being wrong, I have checked back and there was sufficient defence for you to be part of a team, in particular Reck looked a bit awkward when pressed to give an accounting of why he thought shos might not have been scum here with his: taking potshots fron the sidelanes is not unusual but he then says it's null so it should not matter in order to read shos.

I am going to read your ISO tonight in detail.

[copper223]

Seems like a vanity wagon to me, it's also a bit too consistent with his early game posting about PL'ing NS rather than Who if we have to PL someone.

[copper223]

@Shos
What is it with this game about interpreting other players posts randomly and then calling them out on the post not fitting said interpretation? Did I say you pushed the NS PL? Exactly.

The point is you already made a half enemy with that post about lynching NS so if you have to vote someone as scum when you are under pressure and don't want to OMGUS going for NS, who by the way is already scumreading you anyway, makes sense and I don't like it when you can see a possible narrative in what a player is doing.

@All
I don't like a Katsuki lynch, he was clearly softing a strong role, now there are 3 cases:
- He is scum, he has at most 2 days then the game is up.
- He is a strong role, a lynch would be terrible.
- He is baiting a NK as town, a lynch would be bad.

That's probably why he called this wagon stupid and I don't think it's smart to lynch soneobe that chose this line of play D1, let scum WIFOM or let him dig his own grave when we have more information to base our decisions on.

[copper223]

@Ceph
Sure, shos could still be on you and he did give indications of going on quite a few others, why are you discounting everyone else other than NS?

The fact you are discounting 2 makes it a good play by katsuki if scum does as well so it can't be discounted, strong roles that stay alive too long become increasingly suspicious, so he will likely be checked/vig shot etc... after a while, seems pretty obvious to me.

It's possible that's why he said his wagon is dumb idk about that, does he have a history of replacing out tactically?

If you feel confident lynching him on that good for you, I currently don't.

[copper223]

I also think Icerint is more likely town after the catch-up, mainly for the information he shared about Katsuki, the only alarm flag is he is trying to be a bit too appeasing, but maybe he is just a nice guy.

I am sorry to hear about Mala's pet, she told me she knows Mollie's meta pretty well so if she decides she wants to play some more ask her about her please.

@Cabd
What are your reads on the rest of the players?

[copper223]

TS dropping off after getting into a tussle with T-Bone is scum indicarive for him? In my game when he was town he also got easily demotivated when he became a possible lynch due to game mechanics but he still posted regularly.

[copper223]

Ok T-Bone, I can see Tier being scum here:

VOTE: Tier

He is switching tones too often, he was very dogmatic and authoritative to start out with, I am still iffy on the way he pushed on me and then backed off, and after the T-Bone argument he has shut down only to follow up on my: possibly he is demotivated after the argument with T-Bone using a similar argument about not having the motivation to play mafia which looks pretty manipulative, while at the same time calling me out for giving meta about him that wasn't even a read, which looks hyper defensive.

[copper223]

@T-Bone
Why he says he is not motivated is not relevant, I don't like him using a similar phrasing and reason as the one I peovided for him based on the town game we played together.

If he is scum he started trying to control the game like Ceph, but shut down when he noriced he was getting into dangerous waters with his pushes.

@Mollie
What don't you like about it?

[copper223]

@Mollie
You only have surface reads but are worried because you say my TS read is surface level? I don't know what kind of read you expect me to give D1 with a group of experienced players that are either being cagey or playing seemingly pro town and why did you call it bad then? Bad=/ worrisome /= scum indicative the last time I checked, you are also piggybacking off of Cabd's idea that my posts are shallow which I don't like, like for him to you: point to specifics.

@All
Not a fan of T-Bone's reaction to my vote on TS, if TS is town T-Bone possibly wanted to have a nice vanity wagon that went nowhere and is worried this gains traction, it could also be indicative of a bus I guess.

I have been thinking of Shos's motives and this kind of fuck you all I am going to figure out what the score does which looks scummy to most and is the main reason for his scumread is more likely to come from town in my opinion, scum has to consider if it's worth the heat to do so blatantly.

Icerint, the fact you haven't asked Mala about Mollie is noted.

[copper223]

1. You replied earlier that Mala hadn't given a read on Mollie in particular, so you did see the question, don't lie. I find it strange as she told me she knows Mollie's meta really well so I would expect that read from her to be a priority, I've been reading TTH for my teammates for instance as I have been playing with her a lot.

2. I am inferring you could be teammates.

[copper223]

1. I said you lied, not that you lied as scum so you are the one making crappy inferences, I agree the lie was caused by not remembering about it but that is a small tell in of itself cause you are less likely to care about reading a teammate so it's something you are likelier to forget. At the time you did not say anything about Mollie just replacing in so I have no reason to take this clarification at face value now.

2. Again, like with Ceph, if you put statements in my posts from your imagination and then discredit them you don't change the contents of what I wrote, I explained above why you can infer that you and Mollie being teammates is more likely now.

[copper223]

Yes english is not my main language, if intentionality has to be implied by definition that was not intended, the scum connection is all your own though because the two don't follow directly.

I disagree, I have often seen scum forget to interact with each other or had to prod my teammates to answer my questions as scum so that's a well established pattern I use to find scum, in this case giving a read on Mollie from soneone that can read her well if you are both scum is doubly annoying, so trying to sweep it under the rug I can also see as a viable tactic.

[copper223]

@Icerint
At the time I wrote the post I knew what you said was untrue, I did not examine whether it was deliberate or not beforehand because I thought the answer would be revealing, if asked I would have said probably unintentional depending on how likely you think I might forget about it. I think your reply is pretty thorough so I believe what you say about your thought process there.

@Mollie
You called the read on TS bad in 719 and surface level and like I am not sinking my teeth in the read in 735, those look like different concerns to me, or are you clarifying why it was bad, if so why do you think my read is bad here as town?

Seem pro town:
{Ceph, TS pre argument with T-Bone, Rhinox, Mollie, NS, Icerint and Reck when active}
These are players actively trying to make shit happen for the most part.

Cagey:
{Cabd, Katsuki, T-Bone, LLD}

weird:
{Shos}

[copper223]

@Shos
In your case weird is more likely to mean town as I said cause your stubborness to setup fish the votecount information despite the heat you are getting I think is something a town that gives no fucks and is playing for himself is more likely to do rather than a scumplayers.

Cagey is not alignemnt relevant per se, I'd prefer for those players to be more active cause as is I have a problem reading them, case for case:

- Ambivalent on Cabd, as I said the read on copper seems to show genuine effort in trying to read me, on the other hand the whole sum of content from him being basically an OMGUS on town may also mean he just found a decent way to scumread me back, I need to see a readlist from Cabd, then I'll have a better idea.

- Katsuki I already explained, not the lynch for today.

- T-Bone, the reason for his push on TS is the only somewhat alignment relevant post I got from him, I can understand not liking people asking fir pressure on you without doing so themselves, on the other hand he is also OMGUSing left right and centre when his play has little to reccomend for, also as Three-Pronged-Trouser-God in the hydra they controlled the conversation a lot more but I don't know how much of that was T-Bone.

- LLD, I am not going to townread just because of her shenaningangs about being annoyed with the re-roll but many others are, she has been very mainstream with her pushes like shos, I am interested in her NS line if questioning because that is original content that should allow for a better read.

-

[copper223]

He seemed pro-town before he dropped off, as I wrote, and I explained why I find that drop-off potentially scum indicative together with a few other points in the post I voted him, Mollie asked me for those categories that are not directly mappable to alignment, I always seem or try to look pro town when I am scum for instance.

I have scum leans on TS, Cabd and potentially Rhinkx, I have a townread on Ceph, I am leaning town on NS, Mollie, Icerint, and Shos, I am fence-townreading Reck and T-Bone, I am nullish on LLD and Katsuki. The Rhinox read in particular is a problem because it clashes with what my other townreads are saying so I'd like to know why he is town if you are townreading him (question for everyone).

[copper223]

@Mollie
FFS the question is very easy, what do you mean with bad in 719 and superficial in 735, is that an alignment relevant statement yes or no?

By the way you wrote 735 I thought you implied bad as scum, when previously you said bad, but since you jumped on me for equating bad with scummy in your next post (which is what I thought you did) I then assumed you meant bas as town, there is no misrepping involved.

[copper223]

I think Cabd's role fits with what I am seeing about this game wrt to setup spec., once again we have a 10-3 setup in a themed game, this heavily implies we are going to have a lot of vanilla-like or. negative utility roles town side and I disagree with the interpretation that this role is naturally scum indicative, that's pretty big BS.

Redacted. Do not talk about ongoing games.

I am now leaning town on Cabd, those readlists I have only seen from Cabd town, although admittedly while his townreads are well developped I don't like the number of nulls but that is inline with him not having so much time to play the game because of RL.

Ceph, NS and Cabd, please full claim.

[copper223]

Also NS, if you don't know what to do with your vote join me.

[copper223]

Mollie is pinging me again.

[copper223]

@Mollie
Idc, I never lose as scum so I guess winning only 3 out of 4 as town is statistically worse, but how much is my fault is hard to say

Redacted. Do not talk about ongoing games.

Now back to this game, you just missed 2 key posts from me where I explain why I now have Cabd as leaning town and why. You are pinging me because you are voting opportunistically, first on shos and now on Cabd, you are overjustifying your moves, like now with the Cabd unvote, you did not raise the same point about Magua having seen a similar role in a recent game that I made (although that's not such a big deal cause you were already out of the game a that point so it's conceivable you didn't see it) and because I don't see any real conviction behind your posts and reads, this is very different from your attitude in LuckyStar, your FakeGod read in particular.

[copper223]

@Mollie
I don't know how to read Reck, I don't like his style and think from what I have seen that it favours scum regardless of his alignment, that said the dumb disbelief at Cabd's claim and the reaction is something I have seen other townies do before and I don't see the kind of consensus around him that would come from a team backup, he is a fence townread of mine.

We are at a crossroads here, either scum is hanging out in the lurkerfest slots or scum is firmly entrenched into most people's town's circles, someone like {Ceph., Mollie, Ice, partially NS} to be clear and from my perspective, so the less scummy the lurkers start to look the more I am going to focus the town block that has been created today.

I am really interested in LLD vs NS currently.

[copper223]

The shos push is also important by the way, I don't see at least 1 scum not getting on that push if he is town and I don't see most townies that have a clue of how to read him not getting onto it if he is scum, try to remember this when doing future analysis.

[copper223]

About Reck, mainly he lurks a lot, looks disinterested and doesn't explain his thought processes often enough for me to understand where he is coming from, he also escalates really quickly when getting scumread with AtE's from what I've seen, I on the other hand am mostly a logical oriented player so that doesn't mix well.

Because I am seeing a lot of players coming out with townreads on {Ceph., Mollie, Copper, Ice} and to a lesser degree {NS, Rhinox}, I see players under pressure, mainly {Cabd, Shos, Katsuki, partially Reck and TS} and lurkers {Katsuki, partially Cabd TS and Reck, LLD, T-Bone} and we know that scum have daytalk so most likely to me either scum is active and partially responsible for those townreads coming out which is pushing the rest of the playerlist to townread them as well, or the scum PT is a graveyard and scum are in the lurkerslots.

[copper223]

The shos push is also important by the way, I don't see at least 1 scum not getting on that push if he is town and I don't see most townies that have a clue of how to read him not getting onto it if he is scum, try to remember this when doing future analysis.

this is a terribad post

Why do you think so? I think you are terribad for saying so unless you have good reason I am missing.

[copper223]

A 2-1 split is also totally possible as well if that's the nature of the objection (2 in the townred and 1 lurking) but the priority for me is to see if those 4 or 6 names are the core of a winning team for town going forwards and we can just get rid of the rest in order of scumminess until we win or if it's a faulty premise and that block was artificially generated by scum.

[copper223]

NS said he finds you and LLD possible teammates and LLD didn't like that post and questioned him about it, something that hasn't been resolved yet, LLD said there are further points she wants to make regarding NS which I am waiting for; they are both players at the borders for my circles, NS of the townreads and LLD at the border of the lurkers so them going at it could be revealing of where we are at.

I also don't trust your read of NS one bit as you are confbiasing like crazy if you are town, I doubt what he said about Cabd, read him instead of his role, is in any way indicative of them being scummates and when that theory you proposed was disproved by him actually voting Cabd, instead of questioning your initial read you just double down and call him scum anyway, how is that sound analysis?

[copper223]

Ok up for a policy lynch on Cephrir any day.

[copper223]

Ignoring for the rest or the game and hammering if possible.

[copper223]

Dude that is not confbias

He literally said guys lets not vote and let the guy explain and immediately votes when the wagon appears. Either super duper uber recordbreaking forgetful townie, or scum, who at first tried to protect his buddycaughtforwrongreason, and then decides that bussing is better.

Dude he

literally

did not say that, get a grip.

[copper223]

If Cephrir is town he doesn't have a basis to judge how effective anyone's play is without flips, so let's treat that as a scumclaim that he knows I am way off and lynch him, worst case we get rid of useless town, because the comments he is making are good enough for me not to want him around when my win or loss is decided, with a negative utility role.

Also not full claiming there is also basically a scumclaim.

VOTE: Cephrir

[copper223]

Mod please warn the guy about language.

If this langauge is permitted than I'd like to express the same sentiment. The only thing that is simplistic is his comprehension of my posts, assuming it isn't fake.

[copper223]

@Ice
Poorly motivated? I asked you a question, you still haven't answered, you misremembered the question assuming the most benign interpretation, which at the very least is terrible play when you had 40 or so posts to keep track of, and my "push" did not even include a vote but consisted of asking you what's what... like what?

[copper223]

I am not mad, just bored at these attempts to try and discredit my play, if you are scum it's time to go, if you are town you don't even know what you are talking about.

[copper223]

Also the fact I asked you to claim makes me non random, if that wasn't clear to you.

[copper223]

Yeah gotcha, there is no reason for town Cephrir to ponder what to do in this situation with regards to full claiming, he has already given away the most importantart part of his supposed role and the rest is just not as relevant for town's wincon, so he is probably scum here thinking of what to say.

@Mollie
It would be rolefishing, if he hadn't already claimed his role himself, did you forget to talk about that in the scum PT?