Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[serrapaladin]

Hi ETL! Hi Mara!

Serra: hey, sup? I think we should start the game off working together, and figure the others alignment down the road. paranoia is a incessant thing between us, and if you're town, we don't need it to come in between us winning the game/causing unnecessary distractions. If you're scum, imma lynch you anyway.

I agree that a lack of paranoia between us is good for the game, but I'm not sure artificially delaying any sorting is a good way to achieve that. It's more been late-game doubt in early townreads that have messed up our games. What made you go for specific reach-outs this game rather than RVS?

ETL's "knee-jerk" is town.

I find Alchemist's early posts (particularly the questions at quil) lack direction, as do BPC's, to a lesser extent.

Mara's posting doesn't feel like mara to me. I've only played with her a very little bit, but like it feels either heavily influenced by her team or mara really stepping up her game. My first indication is to townread her posts, but I don't wanna jump to that considering possible influences!

Quilford is cuting it up, but that seems like general Quilford to me, pulling a townread early on from that seems dangerous! Looking beyond that, he's had some good posting, but nothing jumping out at me too hard.

This is terrible.

I haven't quite gotten my head around how specific I can be about stuff from our PT, but my team seem to think Quil is town and BB's and mara's openings are weird/fake.

[serrapaladin]

Because you're justifying your lack of reads rather than doing something about it.

[serrapaladin]

I'm town though. U scum?

[serrapaladin]

Hi. Yes. I'm here. Lemme just grab a coffee and I'll get into this.

[serrapaladin]

A few things to follow up on before I catch up:

I've never played with anyone on your team before

All three of my team disagree... :/

"Than normal" there meant what I expect from the average punter in the first few hours of a mafia game, not what is normal for you.

But the average 9p game also doesn't get to 5 or 6 pages in a few hours. The suggestion that the first pages should be treated differently because they happened quickly is nonsense in light of the general speed of f2f, marathon, and chat room games. I don't like this as a defence of BPC.

[serrapaladin]

Mara, why, in your own words? (p-edit: lol)

If Quilford were scum, then 1) he would barely be posting, and 2) what he would post would be a lot less carefree and relaxed. My team has seen him as scum. He's town unless he took a level in Machiavelli over the summer. (But frankly, he just reads as pretty genuine anyway.)

I'm worried that you think Quil with Reck and UT on his team would be readable by activity alone. I presume that you're right, but I think you're being too simplistic and disregarding context.

serras response to me was highly favorable

Could you walk me through your train of thought here? What would you have expected from me as scum?

BPC looks better with his walls, although Egg warns that as scum he is often townread just for his style. I like that he pressures people on unanswered questions.

We're pretty much unanimous on alchemist-scum. All of his defence looks too safe and he lacks a proper emotional response to being unfairly attacked. It also feels like he's jumping from attacker to attacker to start a wagon on one of them.

I really like one of the things BPC was hinting at, which is that Mina is getting opinions from her team-mates, but failing to integrate them with her own.

Oh, serrapaladin, Regfan wants to know why you didn't vote in your first post despite having several scumreads.

I hadn't made up my mind over which vote I preferred.

@mara: explain your alch read?

I'm not sure she's right, but I do like mara going entirely against the grain.

VOTE: Alchemist (L-1)

[serrapaladin]

@mina:
You're picking at the grammatical difference between "I'm not sure either Patrick or BB are scum" and "I'm fairly certain Patrick and BB are not both scum", which is silly.

I didn't say the points against you are interesting, I said I like them a lot, which is tantamount to agreeing with them. You slipping in the word "interesting" is a bit of a misrep. I may not have drawn points against you to a conclusion, but your characterisation of my stance against you is false. Regarding quil: my team and I think your read on Quil is correct independent of your alignment, but I think your justification reflects a lack of thought about the context of the game.

I feel you're trying to twist my words more than engaging with the actual content of my post.

I just don't think he was being especially wishy washy - I'm surprised you found this interesting. I don't get where you think I said that the first 5-6 pages should be treated differently because they happened quickly.

The way I understood your post was that BPC had shown an adequate level of read progression for the first few hours of a game, so I pointed out that the number of posts per player is a better metric for game progression. 5-6 pages is generally enough for active players to have asked questions directed at figuring out alignments, when BPC was spending more of his time justifying null-reads.

A few things here. It doesn't look like you disagree with Mina's Quilford read, and when you say, "I presume you're right," it sounds like you're sheeping the same read you just said seems too simplistic. If you have your own reasos for Townreading Quilford, I want to hear them.

I don't disagree with mina's read, just with her reasons. I really liked Quil's early argument with alchemist and he was pretty unapologetic in some of his interactions with Mina. Also, I don't really see scum making up the detailed story about posting a readlist similar to Mina's in his PT before she did.

[serrapaladin]

I guess misrep was a bit exaggerated, but I don't think I was being unclear about my intent toward mina, and I don't like that she attacked the way in which I presented my points rather than respond to the content.

[serrapaladin]

Alch is still scum. Mina is probably the other. I'll properly get to this tonight.

[serrapaladin]

I'll probably be replacing out since I barely have time to keep up with this game, let alone any of the other ones. Sorry everyone, and sorry for my lacklustre play.

I still feel pretty strongly that Mina is scum. I already mentioned that I didn't like the way she was presenting her team's reads - leaving her open to follow their reads to gain mislynches rather than trying to consolidate them with her own. Her posts reflect that in her team she was asking for individual comments to use, rather than discussing reads. She mentioned Zar's game, where I was more active than here, on average, but a fair reading of that and any of my other games would show that my activity oscillates wildly with my work schedule. She also has Regfan on her team, and if she had honestly been discussing my meta with her team rather than looking for points to use, I'm sure he'd have told her about Joss Whedon mafia where I lurked my way to lylo as an IC.

I really don't like how she has responded to me pointing out things I don't like about her play. I've already said that I really don't think my stance on her was as hedged as she portrayed it, and at another point she said that since her play as a whole looks town enough, my "small" points shouldn't be given any weight. Her posts towards me really have the feeling of gloating that she's "obvtown" enough that she can afford to be hypocritical in how she's dealing with me and still get me lynched. I hope that if you do mislynch my slot, her push on me will be scrutinised more than it is now.

As to her buddy, I'm less certain. I'd risk the game on ETL and Quil being town, but I'm unsure about the other 3. I've been going back and forth on BPC, but he doesn't make much sense as scum with Mina.