8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Alchemist21]

Hey guys!

[Alchemist21]

okey my head is starting to hurt.

I will follow nacho's fuck this.

p-edit: hey! Nice to see a new face to give thoughts here

p.s Are you town? Any thoughts on the game from when it was runing ?

Yes, I'm Town. And from the bits of the game I've seen I'd say you, MS, and wgeurts are all solid Town. (Someone's going to have to explain why MS has two votes on him for me.)

I was rereading the game for ABR before, got as far as page 19, then when I saw you guys added about 50 pages over the weekend and said fuck it, I'll never be caught up at this rate.

P-edit: Oh god this posting rate. lol

Alchemist swaps in for Albert B. Rampage.

Huh! this is allowed! I should have done that when i was crying

but it is a one-shot thing. maybe i shouldnt.


hi alchemist!! I reade you as a bit town in your game but wasnt strong enough to call molla to STOP YOUR WAGON. I was right

I'm not allowed to discuss that game.

oh alchemist its you.

I keep forgetting your name but i know you from ur avi lol

I am 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure, 50% pain
And that's 100% reason to remember the name.

[Alchemist21]

So Metal
If scum >>> Mollie (Celebrate early victory)
If town >>> Ooba
If ooba scum >>> ICE
If ICE town >>> Abr/mollie
If ICE scum >>> Celebrate

What do we do if ooba's town?

i said

follow nacho plan

keep the old townblock

and see if we havent won yet.

What's the Nacho plan?

[Alchemist21]

lynch kagami >> sotty >> greyIce >> zar

we lynched first 2 and they flipped scum.

What's the plan if one flips Town?

GreyICE I think I can get. Zar I don't understand.

P-edit: Ok, I'll go read those pages.

[Alchemist21]

Metal Sonic, I have 0% trust that the townbloc is all town.

i trust in abr at least/ alchemist now.

ABR started lurking and not posting after the double scum lynch.
I feel like it could be he gave up

You know just

rolling

scum would have dampened his spirits from the very start. His replace out was due to some of the people in this game.

[Alchemist21]

zzzx, abr was being suspected by ice, me and others
Including you I believe at some point
He knows he's lost, he swapped games not replaced out

He swapped into a dead slot.

[Alchemist21]

Metal,
As your flip could actually be scum
And I want to sort ooba as he may be scum
And I made a deal

He was on kagami wagon I believe.

Where is your MS scumread coming from. It was there early game, then before the weekend I saw you had him as Town, and now it's scum again.

[Alchemist21]

God one of you three is scum.
If not both
You're GOING TO LOOSE TOWN THE FUXKING GAME

How? You keep talking about the holes in Nacho's plan, but you won't explain anything.

[Alchemist21]

Are we waiting for GreyICE to post a final reads list in case he flips Town?

[Alchemist21]

God one of you three is scum.
If not both
You're GOING TO LOOSE TOWN THE FUXKING GAME

How? You keep talking about the holes in Nacho's plan, but you won't explain anything.

Nacho's plan is based fully of his skill and randomness.
This was fine at that point and it worked.
However if me and ZZZX or anyone can get a town bloc of two and kill one scum we'd WIN.
Hell I'd lynch myself if such a bloc appeared to aid it's cause
I only am fully sure of ZZZX so I reached out to him

Have you been following the Nacho plan before this Day Phase?

[Alchemist21]

Is that L-1?

[Alchemist21]

Are we still on Nacho Plan or ZZZX plan? I'm confused about what just happened.

[Alchemist21]

@Alchemist

: I don't know if you're the scum with MS.

If you aren't and town, I invite you to read my points on MS. I also want you to particularly go through his reactions throughout the day.

I thought I won't get my lynch because I needed 5 votes and ZZZX feels hell bent on avoiding resolving my suspicion on MS. If you are town, I think we can swing it.

Let me know what you think.

Unvote. Vote: MS

Just going off what you posted on MS, what makes him more likely to be scum and not wrong Town?

Earlier, which were you calling near-confTown: Zar or GreyICE?

UNVOTE:

I'll vote when I have a better grasp of the current gamestate.

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist, read up.
Your play so far is matching your scum game.

Reading up isn't going to happen. As embarassed as I am to admit this, I only got to page 19 on my read-through for ABR, and gave up when I saw the current posting rate. If you're doubting my motivations I can literally copy/paste my notes from that reread to here.

Why are you scumreading MS? What had he done that reversed your read to Town on him earlier in the game?

[Alchemist21]

Also, I'll follow up with a venge ICE if I'm going down.

Why? Given the resistance you gave to the Nacho plan these past few pages I thought you were Townreading GI.

[Alchemist21]

Nope, I originally wanted him lynched to follow the nacho plan.
But then I accepted a deal that I'd vote MS and that ooba gives me his vote D6 if MS is town.
That and we can freely lynch him without any complaints if MS is town.

Then why did you keep complaining how full of holes the Nacho plan is when it got us 2 scum and from your POV was about to give us a 3rd?

[Alchemist21]

Votecount 1.4

Sotty7 (3) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
Metal Sonic (3) - Zar, Seraphim, wgeurts
Kagami (3) - Nachomamma8, Hoopla, ZZZX
GreyICE (2) - Sotty7, EddieFenix
wgeurts (1) - Kagami

Not Voting (0):

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

I'm discussing things with Titus and BBT right now. They're both running VCA's. We're all in agreement MS is likely Town, and 1.4 here shows he was a likely counterwagon to two players that flipped scum.

Personally, I think that interaction between Ooba and Mollie looks like Town-Town, and Wgeurts went away when I pointed out an incinsistency in his play. I'm thinking a wgeurts-greyIce team is likely, and Titus and BBT agree with at least the wgeurts lynch (they both think Ooba could be scum, and Titus has ZZZX in her lynchpool, but that's her least confident read.)

VOTE: wgeurts

If you guys still want to do Nacho's plan, I could switch to GI.

[Alchemist21]

Votecount 1.4

Sotty7 (3) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
Metal Sonic (3) - Zar, Seraphim, wgeurts
Kagami (3) - Nachomamma8, Hoopla, ZZZX
GreyICE (2) - Sotty7, EddieFenix
wgeurts (1) - Kagami

Not Voting (0):

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

I'm discussing things with Titus and BBT right now. They're both running VCA's. We're all in agreement MS is likely Town, and 1.4 here shows he was a likely counterwagon to two players that flipped scum.

Personally, I think that interaction between Ooba and Mollie looks like Town-Town, and Wgeurts went away when I pointed out an incinsistency in his play. I'm thinking a wgeurts-greyIce team is likely, and Titus and BBT agree with at least the wgeurts lynch (they both think Ooba could be scum, and Titus has ZZZX in her lynchpool, but that's her least confident read.)

VOTE: wgeurts

If you guys still want to do Nacho's plan, I could switch to GI.

wge wouldnt be a bad wagon but i would wait for my team about it anyway

also tell your team my greatings

as always titus << i wrote that as tits the first time lmao << is always paranoid of me

Yeah, lol. It was mostly a case of you being on Townflips.

Also, BBT just said 3205 from Ooba looks Town.

alchey does wguerts have a completed game with titus? cld you plz ask her for me?

Asking her now.

[Alchemist21]

alchey does wguerts have a completed game with titus? cld you plz ask her for me?

She told me Elemental Mafia, which I was also in. I think that's the only one.

[Alchemist21]

Nope, I originally wanted him lynched to follow the nacho plan.
But then I accepted a deal that I'd vote MS and that ooba gives me his vote D6 if MS is town.
That and we can freely lynch him without any complaints if MS is town.

Then why did you keep complaining how full of holes the Nacho plan is when it got us 2 scum and from your POV was about to give us a 3rd?

As there are now better options than a vengeful strategy.

So my new lynch order
MS
if town >>> Alch
If alch flips town
>>> Ice

Actually, no.
If ooba's wrong I'm going back to nacho.
Meaning I'll go back to my original idea.
Mollie, what do you think we should do?
Ooba, if he flips town then what?

If you're Town and scumreading GI I can't see why you ever deviated from the Nacho plan to begin with.

[Alchemist21]

Alch, can you let me interact with titus?
ABR said she wanted him to convince me to vote nacho.
So I expect she's got reasoning.
Can you ask her to give her opinion on me and also what I should be doing if I'm town?

She said no, and you should be talking with your team about what you should be doing as Town.

[Alchemist21]

Now, see alch
If your slot were town, she'd interact with me. She already claimed that I need convincing.
Your play is also not your town game.

Convincing for what? Voting Nacho? He's dead anyway. And who are you to say what Titus would or wouldn't do?

Why don't you bother explaining the difference in my Town and scum game if you think you can. You're already wrong, so I don't think you can, and you're also not the only one who's played with me. We've got MS, ZZZX, and Mollie who've all played with me. (Also Zar if he remembers me from HU2.) Add that to whoever is on their teams with prior experience with me.

Hell, for someone who's played so much with ABR, how could you even say this was his scum game? The difference between his scum and Town play is pretty stark. You're just flailing at whatever you can right now.

[Alchemist21]

Alch, I couldn't read ABR properly. ABR's a stronger player and I've already learned I can't read him well.
You have a weaker scum game.
So I'll go show why it's not your town game.
I'm not going down without a fight.

From titus I would expect her to be reaching out to players she thinks are town, you claim she's following this game and ABR before said that she wanted to convince me that Nacho was scum.
Why isn't she giving reasons now when you brought her into it?
What about BBT, what were his "reasons"?
I don't know titus well, but I know she has a drive to win. And she's very vocal about her reason even if people disagree.

I call your claim BS that they're scum reading me until you give me their reasons.

It's their VCA, BBT specifically said your 255 looked like an OMGUS to keep the MS counterwagon going. Nobody on my team thinks you're Town at this point, and nobody wants to reach out to scum.

[Alchemist21]

btw@ alchem i think in my iso there is a recent collection of interesting posts and a vca if you are interested

Ok. I'll try to find it when I get time later on tonight.

[Alchemist21]

ZZZX, vote metal and you control mine and OOBA's vote tommorow
That's how much I trust you.
I control ooba's and you control mine.
You will decided tommorow.

I swear all the above on my reputation an honour.

I'm town

Love how your Town claim is underneath. <3

[Alchemist21]

Hmm.. Ooba has a point. And ABR wants me to unvote.

UNVOTE:

[Alchemist21]

@ZZZX; @Ooba;

Who are your top picks for scum right now?

[Alchemist21]

@ZZZX; @Ooba;

Who are your top picks for scum right now?

MS.

Who would his partner be?

[Alchemist21]

wge if you are town state your venge and hammer. if someone lynched metal in this state it will be a mass confusion which is anti town.

This post is bugging me a bit too. Not for the reason Mollie said though. Why are you asking someone to self-hammer if they're Town? Self-hammering is the definition of anti-Town.

[Alchemist21]

D1:

Kagami (4) -

ZZZX

,

Nachomamma8

,

GreyICE

,

wgeurts

Hoopla (4) -

Seraphim

,

Metal Sonic

,

EddieFenix

,

Kagami

Green = prob town
Blue = town bloc
Red = people i dont mind seeing fried

i dont like how half of hoopla is people i like seeing fried.

Metal join the kagami wagon. I am liking it more atm

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

i dont sheep anybody sorry!!

You used to

but If at least 1-2 more join the other wagon I dont mind jumping on it.

Vote:Hoopla

...

D2:

Vote: Kagami

Nacho

Put a vote down zzzy. Let's see where you stand

I shall follow you this once.
VOTE: Nacho
Idk if my mind will change later when i wake up but. my lynch list looks like:

Kagami/serph/nacho.

Most wanted >>> Less wanted

but any is fine so far I believe.

Did anyone notice this about ZZZX? He voted Hoopla despite 2 scumreads on the wagon, and said he wanted Kagami lynched the next Day after Hoopla.

Then

when there was 1 vote on Kagami and 1 vote on Nacho, he voted Nacho.

I'm comfortable with a vote here.

VOTE: ZZZX

[Alchemist21]

I think you're missing some really important context.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kagami

hehe

There was a general "fuck Hoopla" thing there.

That's a small part of what I'm getting at. The important thing is that when D2 came around he chose to vote Nacho over Kagami despite his previously expressed desire to lynch Kagami D2.

[Alchemist21]

Ok.

VOTE: Wgeurts

That's L-1.

[Alchemist21]

Hi, Mollie.

[Alchemist21]

Titus says MS is Egg getting married level Town.

[Alchemist21]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60427

Just that one. ZZZX was in a hydra with Wisdom, I was there, ABR was there, wgeurts was there, and Titus was there.

[Alchemist21]

Titus just told me Egg made bad hammers, and T-bone pinged when he said she had no right to call the hammers bad, and his slot had been scummy before and after that.

She also said wgeurts is flailing amd trying to enter any townblock possible, and dismantling others.

Re ABR: He said he burned some bridges in this game, and could either try to salvage them or switch out.

[Alchemist21]

Titus just told me Egg made bad hammers, and T-bone pinged when he said she had no right to call the hammers bad, and his slot had been scummy before and after that.

She also said wgeurts is flailing amd trying to enter any townblock possible, and dismantling others.

Re ABR: He said he burned some bridges in this game, and could either try to salvage them or switch out.

I agree that wguerts is trying to form a town bloc w/o having any idea how to do so. I am not sure that makes him scum tho..

glork and I rammed his lynch through in reck's rehash game. in varsoon game jon got the bright idea of listening to him and vigged 1 town and town voted all the while ignoring scum!skull.

the reason that I asked titus about the game is cos it seemed like wguerts asking for titus to do a vca was a strange thing to ask for unless he had seen titus do it successfully. I have only seen titus do it successfully in uncouth (sort of, ap was a bad call) but it cld have been resolved through nka IMO.

and I do not think that metal has done 1 thing that he cld not fake as scum.

I am trying to sort things out.

Wgeurts has had some seriously inconsistent play. Same with ZZZX. They're my bets for the last 2 scum right now.

[Alchemist21]

That's one of the main things I look for. It may not = scum every time, but it does enough times to warrant looking into imo.

[Alchemist21]

That's one of the main things I look for. It may not = scum every time, but it does enough times to warrant looking into imo.

I disagree. town are inconsistent all of the time. in fact, the more static a read is for a player the more likely I am going to think them scum.

I'm not saying reads can't change, but when the reason for the change doesn't make sense, I look at it. You have to look at the reasoning behind the pushes, see what motivation they might have. I've caught scum because they've tried crappy pushes, more recently I've caught some because they've tried forcing awkward Townreads, and once I even correctly ID'd a bus vote on a D1 scumflip and people thought I was crazy for thinking scum would have bussed.

Inconsistency doesn't simply mean a change; it means an unreasonable change.

I'm digressing here though. Let's save theory talk for post-game discussion. Why do you think MS is scum?

[Alchemist21]

I'm not saying reads can't change, but when the reason for the change doesn't make sense, I look at it. You have to look at the reasoning behind the pushes, see what motivation they might have. I've caught scum because they've tried crappy pushes, more recently I've caught some because they've tried forcing awkward Townreads, and once I even correctly ID'd a bus vote on a D1 scumflip and people thought I was crazy for thinking scum would have bussed.

Inconsistency doesn't simply mean a change; it means an unreasonable change.

I'm digressing here though. Let's save theory talk for post-game discussion. Why do you think MS is scum?

with this logic change, what makes wguerts scummier than metal?

cos I feel like metal's in thread behaviour is not town at all. he is doing the same thing as wguerts.

GI pointed out how wgeurts has stated reads on people he never even brought up before for no reason. The scum motivation there would be blending in if it's on a popular wagon, and defending a scumbuddy if they're in danger of getting lynched.

Then there's what I pointed out earlier on how wgeurts is treating his GI scumread. He keeps deviating from it to vote these other players, even when the Nacho plan had GI next in line, but he hasn't dropped that read, so why was he hesitant to lynch there? Either they're scum together (which now seems much less likely but still possible) and he didn't want GI lynched, or he wanted to score some extra mislynches before lynching GI.

What in thread behavior do you see from MS that's scummy? Ooba showed me his points, but it could easily be a case of MS being wrong Town. Tbh I haven't seen much of MS since I replaced in so my read there is still largely based on the 19-page-attempted-readthrough. If I'm missing anything important that would indicate scumMS please show me.

[Alchemist21]

Hey Metal Sonic, do you have any other scumread besides wgeurts?

[Alchemist21]

I won't even comment on this further because any move I make is a barbed on either side.

I think that you and zar are the most likely to be scum, and if you're town, which I can see if I tilt my head at just the right angle, then wgeurts is going to benefit the most.

I'll write more later.

Wait, so you have Ooba and Zar as scum atm?

[Alchemist21]

Nacho's plan never included wge in the town block. But it has ooba in it. That is why I am fidgety, because I think that ooba is playing extremely well from a scum perspective but reasonably paranoid (an oxymoron) from a town

Wasn't the other half of the Nacho plan to keep following his scumreads until a Townflip? It seemed earlier you liked the plan because it had given us 2 scum and hadn't been wrong yet. It seems like you've praised one half of the plan, but you're saying the other half was never going to work out.

P-edit: Ah. Remind me what the full Townblock of Nacho's looks like.

[Alchemist21]

ZZZX, no lynching Metal will create a stable Day 6 especially if you happened to be on the wagon.
This wagon is a (likely scum) counterwagon to Metal and self-hammering is never pro-town.
No, you say you trust you mates. However if you where to help finish Metal you would have the votes of those you distrust as well.
It could also well prove Ooba innocent providing less chaos.
You're just finding excuses not to lynch metal.
Also, lynching nacho/hoopla didn't lead to chaos. We've got 3 mislynches as well, so there's no freak "fudge we're going to lylo" panic.

Now for alchemist...

Are you crazy? there are 6 town versus 2 scum. There is no such thing as scum resistance or a scum counterwagon.

And all the people helping me are town (Abr, grey, zzzx), even ooba himself (which you have been following for a deal) says so.

This makes no sense from a town or scum perspective. It is just bad play.

Mollie said the wgeurts wagon looked like a CW to you as well, but I didn't see you say anything to her about it.

[Alchemist21]

MS who would you venge if you get lynched?

[Alchemist21]

I think I'm starting to see what Ooba and Mollie are seeing in MS. Given MS' recent posts, particularly that skipping over Ooba to vote wgeurts bit, I wouldn't be opposed to a lynch there if wgeurts flips Town (half of me kinda wants to lynch MS now).

If MS flips Town I'd personally much rather lynch wgeurts over Ooba.

@Mollie, @Ooba, what do you two think? If MS flips Town would you lynch wgeurts with me tomorrow? Alternatively, if you two switch over to wgeurts with me and he flips Town, I'll lynch MS with you tomorrow.

P.S. MS, what do you mean by, "Ooba would be a cuckold?"

P-edit: Hmm... 3376 actually looks Towny to me.

UNVOTE:

I need to talk this through some more.

@Wgeurts, what do you make of ZZZX's transition into D2 that I pointed out earlier?

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist.
Lynch him now.

I'll go check your post. Also, alchemist you may not know this already: ooba's agreed to surrender his vote to me if MS flips town. Does that seem like something scum would do? In return I had to vote MS today.
Lynch Metal today, then we can figure stuff out tommorow. Even if you want me lynched tommorow, first clear off MS.

I still want to talk this through with Ooba and Mollie. I'm also tired and not going to make a final lynch decision when I'm tired and the guy teling me to do it is one of the people I would lynch.

[Alchemist21]

@Zar, Titus ran a VCA for the game. I'll get her list up for you.

I'm thinking about dropping the wgeurts/MS dichotomy I had last night. Wgeurts' latest posts are looking like Town posts and I had to eat at the Waffle House for him, and Titus will kill me if we lynch MS based on her VCA.

[Alchemist21]

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.1

Sotty7

(3) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic, ZZZX
Albert B. Rampage (1) - wgeurts
wgeurts (1) -

Kagami

Metal Sonic (1) - Zar

Not Voting (6): Albert B. Rampage, PirateMollie,

Hoopla

,

Nachomamma8

, Ooba,

Sotty7

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.2

Sotty7

(2) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic
wgeurts (2) -

Kagami

, Albert B. Rampage
Metal Sonic (2) - Zar, Ooba
GreyICE (2) - ZZZX,

Sotty7

Not Voting (4): PirateMollie,

Hoopla

,

Nachomamma8

, wgeurts

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.3

Sotty7

(2) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic
wgeurts (2) -

Kagami

, Albert B. Rampage
Metal Sonic (2) - Zar, Ooba
GreyICE (2) - ZZZX,

Sotty7

Not Voting (4): PirateMollie,

Hoopla

,

Nachomamma8

, wgeurts

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.4

Sotty7

(3) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
Metal Sonic (3) - Zar, Ooba, wgeurts

Kagami

(3) -

Nachomamma8

,

Hoopla

, ZZZX
GreyICE (2) -

Sotty7

, PirateMollie
wgeurts (1) -

Kagami

Not Voting (0):

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.5

Sotty7

(3) -

Nachomamma8

, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE
PirateMollie (2) -

Hoopla

, wgeurts
Ooba (2) - Metal Sonic,

Sotty7

Kagami

(1) - ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - PirateMollie
wgeurts (1) -

Kagami

Not Voting (2) - Ooba, Zar

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.6

Sotty7

(3) -

Nachomamma8

, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE
Ooba (2) - Metal Sonic,

Sotty7

Kagami

(2) - wgeurts, ZZZX
GreyICE (2) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Hoopla

(1) - Ooba

Not Voting (1) - Zar

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.7

Ooba (4) - Metal Sonic,

Sotty7

, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Kagami

(3) - wgeurts, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

GreyICE (2) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Hoopla

(1) - Ooba

Not Voting (1) - Zar

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.8

Ooba (3) - Metal Sonic,

Sotty7

, GreyICE

Kagami

(3) - wgeurts, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

GreyICE (2) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Hoopla

(1) - Ooba

Sotty7

(1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (1) - Zar

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.
ZZZX is V/LA until 4/5.

Hoopla

has been prodded.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.9

Sotty7

(3) - Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE, Metal Sonic

Kagami

(3) - wgeurts, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

GreyICE (2) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

]Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Hoopla

(1) - Ooba

Not Voting (1) - Zar

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.
ZZZX is V/LA until 4/5.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.10

Kagami

(3) - wgeurts, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

GreyICE (2) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

Sotty7

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Hoopla

(2) - Ooba, Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Not Voting (1) - Zar

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Kagami

and Ooba have been prodded.

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.
ZZZX is V/LA until 4/5.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.11

Kagami

(4) - wgeurts, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE

Hoopla

(2) - Ooba, Metal Sonic
GreyICE (2) -

Kagami

, PirateMollie

Sotty7

(1) - Albert B. Rampage
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Not Voting (1) - Zar

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Votecount 1.12

Kagami

(4) - ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE, wgeurts

Hoopla

(4) - Ooba, Metal Sonic, PirateMollie,

Kagami

Sotty7

(1) - Zar
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

PirateMollie (1) -

Hoopla

Nachomamma8

(1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

Sorry for my absence yesterday - I was basically a zombie or asleep all day.

Votecount 1.13

Hoopla

(7) - Ooba, Metal Sonic, PirateMollie,

Kagami

, ZZZX, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Kagami

(3) -

Nachomamma8

, wgeurts,

Hoopla

Sotty7

(1) - Zar
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

A lynch has been reached.

Hoopla

was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Votecount 2.1

Nachomamma8

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX

Kagami

(1) - GreyICE

Not Voting (8) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Metal Sonic,

Nachomamma8

, Ooba,

Sotty7

, wgeurts, Zar

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.2

Kagami

(4) - GreyICE,

Nachomamma8

, Zar, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.3

Kagami

(4) - GreyICE,

Nachomamma8

, Zar, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

GreyICE is V/LA through 4/11.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).[/color][/b]

Votecount 2.4

Kagami

(4) - GreyICE,

Nachomamma8

, Zar, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(3) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

GreyICE is V/LA through 4/11.

Ooba has been prodded.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).[/color][/b]

Votecount 2.5

Kagami

(4) - GreyICE,

Nachomamma8

, Zar, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(3) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

GreyICE is V/LA through 4/11.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).[/color][/b]

Votecount 2.6

Kagami

(4) - GreyICE,

Nachomamma8

, Zar, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(3) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

GreyICE is V/LA through 4/11.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).[/color][/b

Votecount 2.7

Nachomamma8

(4) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic, wgeurts

Kagami

(3) - GreyICE,

Nachomamma8

, Zar
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - PirateMollie,

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

I demand a replacement for Ooba. 5 days, 13 hours. He's done, get him out of here.

Replacements
1. It is your job to replace team members who are not active. If a moderator has to take action, there will be a penalty.
...
7. The mod will force replace any player who has not posted within a week of his last post (not including Night). This will come at a penalty to the team.

Votecount 2.8

PirateMollie (3) -

Nachomamma8

, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Nachomamma8

(3) - ZZZX, wgeurts, Metal Sonic

Kagami

(1) - Zar
Ooba (1) -

Sotty7

GreyICE (1) - PirateMollie

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Kagami

has been prodded.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.9

Nachomamma8

(3) - wgeurts, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
PirateMollie (3) -

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE,

Sotty7

Kagami

(2) - Zar, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - PirateMollie

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.10

Nachomamma8

(3) - wgeurts, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
Pirate Mollie (3) -

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE,

Sotty7

Kagami

(2) - Zar, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.11

Pirate Mollie (3) -

Sotty7

, GreyICE, Albert B. Rampage

Nachomamma8

(2) - wgeurts, Metal Sonic

Kagami

(2) - Zar, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (3) -

Kagami

, Ooba,

Nachomamma8

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

[/quote]

Votecount 2.12

Pirate Mollie (3) -

Sotty7

, GreyICE, Albert B. Rampage

Kagami

(3) - Zar, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8

(1) - Metal Sonic
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (3) -

Kagami

, Ooba, wgeurts

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

[/quote][/quote]

Votecount 2.13

Pirate Mollie (4) -

Sotty7

, GreyICE, Albert B. Rampage, wgeurts

Kagami

(3) - Zar, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8

(1) - Metal Sonic
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.14

Kagami

(4) - Zar, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE
Pirate Mollie (2) -

Sotty7

, wgeurts
GreyICE (2) - Pirate Mollie, Metal Sonic

Nachomamma8

(1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

*ahem*

CALM THE FUCK DOWN. IT IS A GAME.

That will be all.

Votecount 2.15

Kagami

(4) - Zar, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE
Pirate Mollie (2) -

Sotty7

, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, Metal Sonic
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.16

Kagami

(4) - Zar, ZZZX,

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE
Pirate Mollie (2) -

Sotty7

, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, Metal Sonic
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.17

Kagami

(2) - Zar, ZZZX
Pirate Mollie (2) -

Sotty7

, wgeurts

Nachomamma8

(2) - Albert B. Rampage, Metal Sonic
Sotty (2) -

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie


Not Voting (2) -

Kagami

, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.18

Sotty (4) -

Nachomamma8

, GreyICE, Ooba, Pirate Mollie
Ooba (2) - Metal Sonic, wgeurts

Kagami

(2) - Zar, ZZZX
Pirate Mollie (1) -

Sotty7

Nachomamma8

(1) - Albert B. Rampage


Not Voting (1) -

Kagami

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.19

Nachomamma8

(4) - Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE, wgeurts, ZZZX
Sotty (3) -

Nachomamma8

, Ooba, Pirate Mollie
Ooba (1) - Metal Sonic

Kagami

(1) - Zar
Pirate Mollie (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (1) -

Kagami

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

Votecount 2.20

Nachomamma8

(6) - Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE, wgeurts, ZZZX, Pirate Mollie,

Kagami

Sotty (2) -

Nachomamma8

, Ooba
Ooba (1) - Metal Sonic

Kagami

(1) - Zar
Pirate Mollie (1) -

Sotty7

Not Voting (0) -

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 3.1

Sotty7

(5) - GreyICE, Pirate Mollie, Ooba, wgeurts, Metal Sonic

Kagami

(1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (4) -

Kagami

,

Sotty7

, Zar, ZZZX

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/27 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-27 18:00:00).

[/quote]

VOTECOUNT 3.2

Sotty7

(6) - GreyICE, Pirate Mollie, Ooba, wgeurts, Metal Sonic,

Kagami

Kagami

(1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (3) -

Sotty7

, Zar, ZZZX

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/27 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-27 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 4.1

Kagami

(3) - ZZZX, wgeurts, GreyICE
ZZZX (0) -

Not Voting (6) - Albert B. Rampage,

Kagami

, Ooba, Pirate Mollie, Zar, Metal Sonic

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 4.2

Kagami

(5) - ZZZX, wgeurts, GreyICE, Ooba, Zar

Not Voting (4) - Albert B. Rampage,

Kagami

, Pirate Mollie, Metal Sonic

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 5.1

Metal Sonic (2) - Ooba, wgeurts
GreyICE (1) - Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) - Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage (1) - GreyICE

Not Voting (3) - Pirate Mollie, Zar, ZZZX

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 5.1

Metal Sonic (2) - Ooba, wgeurts
GreyICE (1) - Metal Sonic
Ooba (1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (4) - Pirate Mollie, Zar, ZZZX, GreyICE

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 5.2

Metal Sonic (2) - Ooba, wgeurts
GreyICE (2) - Metal Sonic, Pirate Mollie
Ooba (1) - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (3) - Zar, ZZZX, GreyICE

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

VOTECOUNT 5.3

Metal Sonic (2) - Ooba, wgeurts
Ooba (2) - Alchemist, Pirate Mollie
Zar (2) - ZZZX, Metal Sonic

Not Voting (2) - Zar, GreyICE

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

[/quote]


And from Towniest to scummiest she had:

MS
Zar
GI
Mollie

Ooba
ZZZX
Wgeurts.

[Alchemist21]

Titus answer me smthing. How did he build his vca? Does someone who never voted for or got voted by scum while being on every town lynch be towniest by CCA?

Metal is prob town but if you want to talk VFA the only person a little worse was prob mollie

P-edit I said you are scummy IF you want to take it in a CCA.

In other words I am bashing the VFA analysis done as being pointlesa

Titus had notes regarding some specific vote counts and a blurb about why she ranked some of the players where they are.

A lot of it was "who was on scum and when? Did they ever leave those wagons for a town wagon? Where were the scum votes?"

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Unipod Tripod

Well thanks for saving me the hassle. I kinda thought you were trying to frame bookitty with goat testicles.

But nope, my scum pool was right again.

VOTECOUNT

Untrod Tripod (2): Titus, BooKitty LYNCH

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
[snip]

Untrod Tripod, Mafia Rolecop, has been lynched

Titus and BooKitty, vanilla townies survive.
TOWN WINS

I've made the mafia and dead PTs public

unfortunately my hydra with titus fell down

it is probably my fault cause it happens with mollie too

Titus says that hydra fell down because of her rl stuff going on at the time.

[Alchemist21]

These are the notes Titus had.

1.4 - MS is a counterwagon to 2 wagons that were on scum.
1.9 - Dueling scum wagons. If no bussing is assumed, then scum would be in Ooba, Mollie, Zar
Between 1.12 and 1.13, ZZZX tipped the lynch to Hoopla over Kagami.
Hoopla wagon has 1 flipped scum on it. Others haven't flipped.
2.12 & 2.13 - Mollie is counterwagon to Kagami; ZZZX switched to Kagami from Mollie
2.18 - Mollie, Ooba, and Grey all voting for Sotty
2.19 - GI votes Nacho, followed by wgeurts and ZZZX
Mollie comes on, Kagami hammers Nacho

Zar is Town due to Sotty votes, Grey would have to be bussing frequently to be scum, and Mollie has generally good votes.

Again, her lynch pool after this is Ooba, ZZZX, and wgeurts.

I want to work with GI here.

VOTE: wgeurts

[Alchemist21]

Venge on you if I get lynched anyway.

And my plan shall be followed. regardless of what you are. Because your whole case is built on the fact I put myself in the block..

Well guess what sherlock? I am town, obv clear town at it.

p-edit: Alchem, did you even read my post?

Not before I posted. There were a bunch of posts that showed up in my p-edit, so I decided to just submit it and then go over the posts.

[Alchemist21]

Venge on you if I get lynched anyway.

And my plan shall be followed. regardless of what you are. Because your whole case is built on the fact I put myself in the block..

Well guess what sherlock? I am town, obv clear town at it.

p-edit: Alchem, did you even read my post?

Not before I posted. There were a bunch of posts that showed up in my p-edit, so I decided to just submit it and then go over the posts.

Alright. tell me your opinion

While I'm Townreading Ooba, I'd lynch him before GI, and probably before Zar.

Right now I think it's likely a ZZZX/wgeurts scumteam. At the very least I think 1 of you is scum.

[Alchemist21]

GI did you miss Mollie's 3575?

[Alchemist21]

This
Piece
Of
Shit
Is
Scum

I know scum when I see it, and ZZZX is it.

well. you had it in wguerts and your 2 venges are zzthing and ooba so do you see why I am confused as to what happened that makes you think that wguerts is now town?

I'm guessing the bolded here:

GI did you miss Mollie's 3575?

ZZZX is setting off every scum alarm I had.

Is he scum with Wguerts? I don't know. It could be. He talks a good game about voting him, even did it, but when it looked like the wagon would go through, here he is with a chainsaw to derail it back to "Nacho's reads".

He seemed really fine with me vigging Wguerts too

, and only went into this idiotic frenzy when I put him down DESPITE VOTING ME.

He's flailing his way down.

[Alchemist21]

Is he scum with Wguerts? I don't know. It could be. He talks a good game about voting him, even did it, but when it looked like the wagon would go through, here he is with a chainsaw to derail it back to "Nacho's reads". He seemed really fine with me vigging Wguerts too, and only went into this idiotic frenzy when I put him down DESPITE VOTING ME.

i dont get this, think about it

if i said nothing we would have got wge

After i said my plan... we will get wge

did anytihng chance? nope
its just that grey is now stuck in a loop where his whole tema is caught

And who is GI's team in your opinion?

[Alchemist21]

Hey guys, I'm on and going to catchup on the past few pages. My wifi hotspot device's battery messed up, and it'll be June until I can get a new Device if I can't find a new battery for it.

[Alchemist21]

MS,
Still want you lynched.
However it's causing chaos pushing you.

And ZZZX gave a good plan

why do you want me lynched when i am your town read?

why do you want me lynched when i am your town read?

As I then get ooba's vote and a metric tonne of associatives.

I'm town, town mislynch no matter how you word it ALWAYS hinders town.
There is almost never a positive side to it unless you're in a bastard game.

This is a good catch. If wgeurts objection to self-voting was just because he doesn't want Town lynched then he wouldn't be lynching a Townread. (Actually, how long has wgeurts been Townreading MS now? Until this series of posts I still thought he was scumreading him.)

@Mollie, FWIW ABR said something similar about Kagami possibly being demoralized by GreyICE, and he's pulling my ear to tell me the scumteam is Ooba/GI.

GI vs ZZZX continues to confuse the crap out of me, and the longer it drags on the more it sounds like two adults from a Charlie Brown cartoon. The only reason I can recall why Grey is voting ZZZX is because he thinks he's trying to get a scumbuddy into a Townblock through lylo. Why is ZZZX voting GI exactly? *checks back for the original vote*. Oh yeah, Nacho's plan. And then shit happened.

That reminds me of Zar's post a page or 2 back. He said he couldn't believe there was scum motivation in ZZZX pushing this plan so hard. Maybe I'm confbiasing here, but I feel like this shitstorm wouldn't be necessary if the main basis for the vote was just returning to the Nacho plan, even if Z's read on Grey became a scumread after that.

[Alchemist21]

Hey guys, I'm on and going to catchup on the past few pages. My wifi hotspot device's battery messed up, and it'll be June until I can get a new Device if I can't find a new battery for it.

EBWOP: Using my dad's hotspot he just got. No idea how much data it gets so I'm only going to use it at night. If anyone knows if or how I can get a new battery for our normal one please let me know.

[Alchemist21]

Difference is, I know my own alignment. I can only speculate on MS.

You still want to lynch a Townread though.

This is a good catch. If wgeurts objection to self-voting was just because he doesn't want Town lynched then he wouldn't be lynching a Townread. (Actually, how long has wgeurts been Townreading MS now? Until this series of posts I still thought he was scumreading him.)

@Mollie, FWIW ABR said something similar about Kagami possibly being demoralized by GreyICE, and he's pulling my ear to tell me the scumteam is Ooba/GI.

GI vs ZZZX continues to confuse the crap out of me, and the longer it drags on the more it sounds like two adults from a Charlie Brown cartoon. The only reason I can recall why Grey is voting ZZZX is because he thinks he's trying to get a scumbuddy into a Townblock through lylo. Why is ZZZX voting GI exactly? *checks back for the original vote*. Oh yeah, Nacho's plan. And then shit happened.

That reminds me of Zar's post a page or 2 back. He said he couldn't believe there was scum motivation in ZZZX pushing this plan so hard. Maybe I'm confbiasing here, but I feel like this shitstorm wouldn't be necessary if the main basis for the vote was just returning to the Nacho plan, even if Z's read on Grey became a scumread after that.

this is a strange sentiment considering how abr was brofisting grey the entire duration of the game when he was in it.

I think zzthing is town.

TBH he was kinda spazzing out in his reads when he concluded this, but he still thinks it either them or Ooba/Zar.

First he was "maybe ZZZX and wgeurts". Then wanted me to switch from wgeurts to ZZZX because he looked really opportunistic, and said wgeurts was less likely scum than Ooba and Z (this was after reading GI's wgeurts case). Then he felt Ooba was the right lynch for the Day. And then he thought Kagami may have replaced out because of GI's toxicity and said Ooba/GI.

All those reads in that paragraph were stated by him on 4/20 in the time frame of 3:30 PM to 4:15 PM.

[Alchemist21]

alchey you said in post 3799 that it was ooba/Gi and now you are switching to ooba/zarella?

what i am interested in is what YOU think.

also kagami did not replace out, she was lynched. and abr wld have noticed that.

Those are his 2 scumteam choices at the moment.

I still think it's likely wgeurts/ZZZX.

My mistake on the replacement thing. He just referenced Kagami saying they were having a bad experience and for some reason I translated that to meaning replaced out.

[Alchemist21]

Early morning post while I have time.

alchey you said in post 3799 that it was ooba/Gi and now you are switching to ooba/zarella?

what i am interested in is what YOU think.

also kagami did not replace out, she was lynched. and abr wld have noticed that.

Those are his 2 scumteam choices at the moment.

I still think it's likely wgeurts/ZZZX.

My mistake on the replacement thing. He just referenced Kagami saying they were having a bad experience and for some reason I translated that to meaning replaced out.

why do you think it is a wguerts and zzthing team?

They're my top picks for scum. I can't really point to anything they've done and say, "this looks like scum-scum interaction," but they're the ones that make the most sense to me.

[Alchemist21]

Nope, I originally wanted him lynched to follow the nacho plan.
But then I accepted a deal that I'd vote MS and that ooba gives me his vote D6 if MS is town.
That and we can freely lynch him without any complaints if MS is town.

Then why did you keep complaining how full of holes the Nacho plan is when it got us 2 scum and from your POV was about to give us a 3rd?

MS,
Still want you lynched.
However it's causing chaos pushing you.

And ZZZX gave a good plan

why do you want me lynched when i am your town read?

why do you want me lynched when i am your town read?

As I then get ooba's vote and a metric tonne of associatives.

I'm town, town mislynch no matter how you word it ALWAYS hinders town.
There is almost never a positive side to it unless you're in a bastard game.

This is a good catch. If wgeurts objection to self-voting was just because he doesn't want Town lynched then he wouldn't be lynching a Townread. (Actually, how long has wgeurts been Townreading MS now? Until this series of posts I still thought he was scumreading him.)

@Mollie, FWIW ABR said something similar about Kagami possibly being demoralized by GreyICE, and he's pulling my ear to tell me the scumteam is Ooba/GI.

GI vs ZZZX continues to confuse the crap out of me, and the longer it drags on the more it sounds like two adults from a Charlie Brown cartoon. The only reason I can recall why Grey is voting ZZZX is because he thinks he's trying to get a scumbuddy into a Townblock through lylo. Why is ZZZX voting GI exactly? *checks back for the original vote*. Oh yeah, Nacho's plan. And then shit happened.

That reminds me of Zar's post a page or 2 back. He said he couldn't believe there was scum motivation in ZZZX pushing this plan so hard. Maybe I'm confbiasing here, but I feel like this shitstorm wouldn't be necessary if the main basis for the vote was just returning to the Nacho plan, even if Z's read on Grey became a scumread after that.

@Mollie; these are a couple reasons for my wgeurts scumread. There's also the issue of how he should have known this was ABR's Town game if he's played that many games with him.

wge if you are town state your venge and hammer. if someone lynched metal in this state it will be a mass confusion which is anti town.

This post is bugging me a bit too. Not for the reason Mollie said though. Why are you asking someone to self-hammer if they're Town? Self-hammering is the definition of anti-Town.

D1:

Kagami (4) -

ZZZX

,

Nachomamma8

,

GreyICE

,

wgeurts

Hoopla (4) -

Seraphim

,

Metal Sonic

,

EddieFenix

,

Kagami

Green = prob town
Blue = town bloc
Red = people i dont mind seeing fried

i dont like how half of hoopla is people i like seeing fried.

Metal join the kagami wagon. I am liking it more atm

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

i dont sheep anybody sorry!!

You used to

but If at least 1-2 more join the other wagon I dont mind jumping on it.

Vote:Hoopla

...

D2:

Vote: Kagami

Nacho

Put a vote down zzzy. Let's see where you stand

I shall follow you this once.
VOTE: Nacho
Idk if my mind will change later when i wake up but. my lynch list looks like:

Kagami/serph/nacho.

Most wanted >>> Less wanted

but any is fine so far I believe.

Did anyone notice this about ZZZX? He voted Hoopla despite 2 scumreads on the wagon, and said he wanted Kagami lynched the next Day after Hoopla.

Then

when there was 1 vote on Kagami and 1 vote on Nacho, he voted Nacho.

I'm comfortable with a vote here.

VOTE: ZZZX

This is how my suspicion on ZZZX started and why it stayed. Asking wgeurts to self-vote is bad, but GI has been telling ZZZXthe same thing, so it's probably not as alingment indicative as I thought. What's making that read stick is how he said at the end of D1 he wanted Kagami (scum) lynched D2, but then when presented with the option between Kagami and Nacho (Town) he went with Nacho. I also get the feeling that some of ZZZX's posts in his 1v1 with Grey were trying to discredit Grey. The whole 1v1 seems like an overblown result of ZZZX apparantly going back to the Nacho plan, and I also noticed ZZZX started hard scumreading after deciding to fall back on the Nacho plan. It could be Town confbiasing, but I'm wondering why he felt the need to go into that huge 1v1 for something that I think started out as pretty mechanical.

At first I had a wgeurts/GI scumteam because wgeurts was rerouting his lynchpool around his scumread there, but GI also placed him back at L-1, and even earlier he called me back to the wgeurts wagon when I was the one with the ZZZX vanity wagon. If wgeurts is scum with GI it would mean GI bussed his whole team.

[Alchemist21]

Also, I fixed my wifi router's battery (YAY!) so I should be able to post normally again.

[Alchemist21]

Why do you think Zar's scum?

[Alchemist21]

This is how my suspicion on ZZZX started and why it stayed. Asking wgeurts to self-vote is bad, but GI has been telling ZZZXthe same thing, so it's probably not as alingment indicative as I thought. What's making that read stick is how he said at the end of D1 he wanted Kagami (scum) lynched D2, but then when presented with the option between Kagami and Nacho (Town) he went with Nacho. I also get the feeling that some of ZZZX's posts in his 1v1 with Grey were trying to discredit Grey. The whole 1v1 seems like an overblown result of ZZZX apparantly going back to the Nacho plan, and I also noticed ZZZX started hard scumreading after deciding to fall back on the Nacho plan. It could be Town confbiasing, but I'm wondering why he felt the need to go into that huge 1v1 for something that I think started out as pretty mechanical.

At first I had a wgeurts/GI scumteam because wgeurts was rerouting his lynchpool around his scumread there, but GI also placed him back at L-1, and even earlier he called me back to the wgeurts wagon when I was the one with the ZZZX vanity wagon. If wgeurts is scum with GI it would mean GI bussed his whole team.

don johnson did this to me as scum like his first post literally had the entire scumteam in his list and only them in a popcorn open game and gave the gun to nacho (which was sooper dumb but no1 listened to me). I bitched about it postgame and regfan and I got into a round about it.

Huh. I never thought someone would do that and stick with it like that.

I'm talking things over with ABR. He said Grey's toxicity could have just ruined the game for all his scumbuddies and not just Kagami. I said I'd reconsider GI's slot if wgeurts flipped Town. I'll do that and look back at the wgeurts wagon tomorrow.

L

[Alchemist21]

Grey every point against me is a misrep. you are pureply confbaising so hard right now., You are trying to find a reason to fit me as scum instead to find my allignment.

"Confbiasing"?

That's something only town do. Scum can't confbias, they already know alignment.

This wagon is hysterical. I will win the game here, and I will win it off this. The funny thing is you could have just shut the fuck up and let me lynch Wguerts, but no, no you wanted to make your move today.

I'm reviewing GI's slot. Came across that quote and decided to look back at the circumstances around this statement. I'm assuming the "make your move" statement refers to Z going back to Nacho's plan and voting GI. Around that time Z went back to that and proposed his own new plan, there were 3 main proponents for the wgeurts wagon: GI, MS, and myself.

Given wgeuerts flipped Town, this makes me think GI's point here means Z is more likely Town. As scum, he could have compromised and said, "we could lynch wgeurts over GI Today," and on a wgeurts Townflip could have gone back to the GI wagon the next day. In a scenario where ZZZX is scum and GI and wgeurts are both Town, I don't think the lynch order would be that important to ZZZX.

Also, @GI, you never really explained the hard Townread you had on me, and I think it's weird that it was so seriously damaged by a simple opinion from ABR.

[Alchemist21]

Not at the moment.

[Alchemist21]

Part of me wants to be lazy and just sheep the Nacho/wgeurts vengeful but I'm not comfortable with just sheeping (especially if it puts the wagon to L-1) if I don't have reasonable suspicion the slot is scum.

P-edit: As for the current gamestate, MS said he thinks Ooba makes sense as scum with the most people despite looking Town. He has Ooba as a top scumread right now.

@MS why aren't you voting Ooba?

I should ISO Zar at some point during the Day, since I see questions that seem Town, but I don't think I ever got to se pe what his analysis looks like (if he's posted some since I replaced in I missed it).

[Alchemist21]

I know that's more IIoA of an assessment, but I didn't get anything out of ZZZX and MS other than that Ooba thing. Maybe if I read through it again I'll catch something I missed the first time. I'm prioritizing getting GI sorted first though.

[Alchemist21]

Okay, first of all we are most certainly doing the vig plan for 4:2 and 3:2. 4:2 it is nearly impossible to lynch scum, and 3:2 is quite difficult.

I would quite willingly be lynched to ensure this occurs.

That is a simple fact. Vigging gave us two scum. I am quite happy to be lynched for a vig shot.

@Alchemist

I believe I explained many times my hard town read on ABR. Why is it gone in an instant? A bald-faced lie.

ABR WOULD NOT SAY THAT AS TOWN

. Period. ABR knows my scum game, and that was a lazy fucking read that represents something I would never do.

ABR does not say shit like that.

"Toxic in the scum thread driving down the morale of the team?" Kagami even said the issue was occuring in his

Team Mafia thread.

It was a supremely lazy lie.

ZZZX:

I like stuff today. I looked up the plans and... I think they're shit. I think this plan is shit. That doesn't mean its necessarily scum. You're still on a high pick, simply because I have no idea why the towniest people are Ooba and Mollie! That's just sheer nonsense read. After a strong start, Ooba has dropped off the face of the planet, and Mollie is Mollie.

Zar:

Do NOT mislynch Zar. Lynch me first. If you think he's my scumbuddy, then my flip should convince you that's fucking nonsense. Anyone arguing for his lynch after that should summarily be strung up... well, at least vigged until we have 1 scum left.

She's also not willing to scumread that many players: yesterday, she had a townread on ZZZX, wgeurts, ABR, Zar, Hoopla. If you add her to that townblock, you get {Kagami, Seraphim, Eddie, Nacho, GreyICE, Metal Sonic}. She said the only thing she had against Kagami was her lurking, but she made a few points and then disappeared. She pushed against Serpahim. She took light potshots against Metal Sonic. She soft-pushed me a couple of times to say I never was intense as I usually was, but never really advanced past that.

Currently scum reading Metal. Zar is slipping down that slide too. Outside of that my strong town reads are ABR, wgeurts and maybe ZZZX. Eddie is more neutral. You... I'm not sure on. I want to believe. I'm thinking that GreyICE v Kagami could be town v town which means I am missing a scum that I need to figure out, but I think that will come once we actually get some good lynches going.

Her thought processes are also basically just lacking in depth: town-Sotty isn't afraid to pursue a variety of different avenues, she has small theories here and there, her reads are fluid as hell because she's constantly thinking about them, and even though I'm willing to allow a little bit dialed back because working in the coal mines is seriously tiring business, but this Sotty feels like a different person completely from normal town game.

I very much disagree that I haven't been pushing different avenues. You just don't like said avenues. There is a difference there.

I do very much like nacho's Seraphirm and Eddie paragraphs though. This is more of what I want to see makes me hesitant to jump on your wagon.

Zar

~ Why are you voting Kagami? I think I missed that. You wrote a whole post talking about Empire's reads and then slapped a vote down with no further explanation.

Seraphim is still actively lurking like a mother. I really don't get why we're willing to just let that slide right now.

This should very convincingly argue Zar=Town. It also fairly convincingly points to Ooba town. Could be a bus, maybe. But really?

Outside of that my strong town reads are ABR, wgeurts and maybe ZZZX.

Would be extremely impressed and weirded out if that was three town. That sentence has been bothering me for a long time.

Mollie:

Wguerts flipping town makes me feel better about her and her team. Marginally. Could have been opportunistic yesterday and voted whoever for two lynches, tried strongly to get me lynched instead.

Metal Sonic:

Still believe he's town. If he is scum, it is 110% with alchemist.

Sotty I gave you metal sonic meta to look at :/

Oh my bad I'll check it out before the end of today.

Not extremely confident in everything right now, so I want to talk with my team.

You also said I was Townier than he was in my own way, which you didn't explain beyond that. Also, ABR said it, whether you believe it or not.

[Alchemist21]

You have calm, measured analysis.

But there's no fucking way town-ABR says something like that. It's either "ABR make up some shit about Grey" or you just making some shit up with ABR's name on it.

I mean if ABR truly believes toxic play demotivates a team, then he's claiming scum, because his play this game was 110% toxic as fuck.

Calm and measured is more of an alignment-neutral personality trait than a Town trait tbh.

Mollie made a similar statement, and said it could apply to ABR or you, so I don't get why it's surprising to you that ABR said it as well.

P-edit: @Mollie I'm sorry. I'm trying my best here, but wgeurts' Townflip and the likelihood that Z is Town have put me in a no-man's land for my reads. I'm hoping my interaction with GI will help me nail down his alignment for certain.

[Alchemist21]

Hmm.. Looking back at GI's recent post where he said he doesn't mind getting lynched.

I'm thinking if he were scum, then he'd have to be incredibly confident his buddy could clear the rest of the game. His buddy would have to be a universal Townread, and I can't think of anyone who fits that qualification other than Mollie, and I think she's Town. GI's likely Town for that.

[Alchemist21]

You have calm, measured analysis.

But there's no fucking way town-ABR says something like that. It's either "ABR make up some shit about Grey" or you just making some shit up with ABR's name on it.

I mean if ABR truly believes toxic play demotivates a team, then he's claiming scum, because his play this game was 110% toxic as fuck.

Calm and measured is more of an alignment-neutral personality trait than a Town trait tbh.

Mollie made a similar statement, and said it could apply to ABR or you, so I don't get why it's surprising to you that ABR said it as well.

P-edit: @Mollie I'm sorry. I'm trying my best here, but wgeurts' Townflip and the likelihood that Z is Town have put me in a no-man's land for my reads. I'm hoping my interaction with GI will help me nail down his alignment for certain.

what do you think about other players?

You: It's been pretty clear to me that you've been trying to interact with the other players to understand then and figure out their alignment. You also said you've been avoiding ABR, and the reason you replaced in was because of what Nacho said about you and Eddie while Eddie was here. I've never seen your scumgame, nor do I know which alignment you prefer, but I really don't think you as a player would replace into a game with a player you dislike AND another player who can accurately read you just to save a scum slot, which would just be pointless and uncomfortable for scum you.

MS: I've been Townreading him most of the time. Him not backing up his Ooba read with a vote is making me doubt the slot.

Zar: I'm honestly not sure anymore. I need to see more from him and ISO him. The Sotty quote GI posted seems like a weak reason to think Zar is Town when Zar himself is saying his analysis has been Town.

Ooba: Still have him as Town that's trying to figure out the game. I haven't seen anything scummy from him. Admittedly I haven't ISO'd Seraphim to see what this "unsalvageable" slot looked like before, and even ABR's reasons for scumreading him were due to Seraphim's posts. Ooba would have to be pretty good scum to have reversed people's reads on the slot without coming under much fire for his own play.

[Alchemist21]

alchey, wis has you as town and thinks that I shld reach out to you. he thinks zzthing correctly called grey out for not self-voting. he and I are on the same page about lynch order being grey and then zarella.

Hi Wis!

Does he think it was a scum motivated lack of self-vote or wgeurts-brand refusal? Does Zar come next regardless of GI's flip or does he want us to follow GI's venge if he flips Town?

Now @Mollie, if you had to form a Town block, who would you have in it?

I think I'd have you, ZZZX, and myself.

I'd say MS, but I know you have doubts on his slot, and I'm starting to get doubts there too (but I understand if his reluctance is based on his teammates' reads).

I'd include Ooba, but I would vote him out before any of the three I named above.

I noticed GI has OMGUS'd a bit, but I still think he'd have to be confident in his partner to advocate his own lynch as scum.

If you think voting down the line of GI/Zar/MS/Ooba wins the game, then I'll form up with you and hammer GI. I'm still not really comfortable with it, but I've been waffling on my scumreads this game and have more a lot more confidence in my Townreads on you and ZZZX right now.

[Alchemist21]

I'm getting tinfoil paranoia about MS and Ooba. It's more of a gut thing here, but that back-and-forth between them reads kinda fake.

I skimmed Zar's ISO and it came off really Town, and his recent post did as well. What really stuck out to me was a D2 post he had where his reads were divided into 3 tiers.

My reads are currently like this:

Tier 1:

ABR, GreyICE,

Metal Sonic
Tier 2: ZZZX,

wgeurts, Nacho

Tier 3:

Kagami, Sotty,

ooba, mollie

Anyone in Tier 1 is not up for lynching for me, and I don't think I'll be voting anyone in tier two either today.

mollie

: have your reads changed at all since the discussion from the last couple of pages?

I added the colors for clarity. That kind of accuracy on D2 is pretty amazing. I still think Mollie is Towniest of the Town here, and ZZZX is probably close behind.

That quote, my team wanting Ooba voted out, and PoE are the main factors for my vote here.

VOTE: Ooba

@Mollie, don't forget to respond to my Townblock question.

[Alchemist21]

I'm getting tinfoil paranoia about MS and Ooba. It's more of a gut thing here, but that back-and-forth between them reads kinda fake.

I skimmed Zar's ISO and it came off really Town, and his recent post did as well. What really stuck out to me was a D2 post he had where his reads were divided into 3 tiers.

My reads are currently like this:

Tier 1:

ABR, GreyICE,

Metal Sonic
Tier 2: ZZZX,

wgeurts, Nacho

Tier 3:

Kagami, Sotty,

ooba, mollie

Anyone in Tier 1 is not up for lynching for me, and I don't think I'll be voting anyone in tier two either today.

mollie

: have your reads changed at all since the discussion from the last couple of pages?

I added the colors for clarity. That kind of accuracy on D2 is pretty amazing. I still think Mollie is Towniest of the Town here, and ZZZX is probably close behind.

That quote, my team wanting Ooba voted out, and PoE are the main factors for my vote here.

VOTE: Ooba

@Mollie, don't forget to respond to my Townblock question.

I felt like the exchanges read as scum theatre. scum with town or scum with scum I am unsure. I am not liking any of metal's posting but I don't like ooba ignoring the fuck out of me either and going mia when he did either.

the second part of this post is kind of strange cos scum can fake reads and bus teammates etc etc. I am wondering why this did not factor into alchey's thinking. what i like about some of zar's posts when contrasted with others (I haven't isoed him, I am basing this of memory of contrast posts that other pple keep presenting and eh, I am wondering how accurate grey's reads were. grey had him as town.

I am just going to have to interact with him more I think.

I am not ready to come up with a town bloc yet. I need more interaction and to see more in thread behaviour tat is not coming from spammy metal. I feel like zzthing is kind of just as bad but ugh zzthing felt so town earlier but that is also who grey wanted venged but I feel at this time we need to reevaluate now that there was a process in place that resulted in a town flip.

@ metal

if you thought wguerts wld probs flip town then why did you vote him? like wguerts can get away with that cos he is new but you can't. you shld know better.

Do you or any of your teammates think scumZar would put half his scumteam in his D2 lynchpool? It could have been scum bussing, but it just feels like too many and too soon for that.

[Alchemist21]

Do you or any of your teammates think scumZar would put half his scumteam in his D2 lynchpool? It could have been scum bussing, but it just feels like too many and too soon for that.

okay so if this is your argument for town!zarella cos if he was scum he wldn't bus that early then why are you voting ooba? cos serapham's early votes were both on scum!kagami and scum!sotty, metal was his very first vote and then he moved it on to hoopla on d1 to sotty.

it feels like you are leaving out a piece of a puzzle that I don't understand. unless you didn't look back on seraphim's posts.

I actually hadn't noticed that. I still have a huge knowledge gap of this game's history. I was also thinking Zar had several hard Townreads that he would refuse to lynch and that scum would have kept more options open at the time.

[Alchemist21]

Titus said she would have an updated VCA within 72 hours.

But did you really just say Ooba was whiteknighting for defending himself?

[Alchemist21]

How confident was that GI Townread?

What do you think of Ooba hammering that wagon? Regardless of whether you think it was intentional or not, he still voted the guy you claim he was WK'ing, so what's up with that?

[Alchemist21]

I went through Sotty's ISO and noticed she kept complaining about Seraphim and how nobody was lynching the slot, but didn't hardpush for that lynch. She had her vote on Seraphim for most of the game, but in her final post she still had Ooba as scummiest but had her vote on the Eddie/Mollie slot.

Reading the Seraphim ISO: There was a lot of complaining from this slot as well, but it was interesting to see how he had pegged Sotty-Kagami-GI interactions (with either flipping scum meaning GI Town, as well as the scumflip of either Kagami or Sotty implicating the other), and leaned more for the Kagami/Sotty votes rather than the GI votes. I don't think he ever once explained his Hoopla vote.

I've mulled things over. All things considered, I still want a Hoopla lynch; her being scum is a sure thing for me at this point.

why do you think this?

You have 22 posts and 0% have you scumhunting or caring about the game at all. You talk about theory for a while, with your vengeful plan; when it gets more or less unequivocally rejected, you disappear. Obviously, I should not pin lurking on you as you've been busy. But if I'm going to be low activity, generally as a rule you should try to make what few posts you do have time for high impact. Your posts are not high impact. I have no idea what you think of the game and as such I have no reason to think you are scumhunting. This is a game where being open is important so that people can read you; you are a closed book. Besides your plan, what have you contributed? You've done some mudslinging at ABR and buddied to Nacho and GreyICE. You've not contributed or commented on any of the major events of the day thus far besides making a non-contribution to the GreyICE/sotty argument up front. Your ISO is 22 posts of nothing.

Hoopla, I've been scumreading you since fucking forever ago, don't even try that.

Ok, so he did explain the vote/scumread ages after the fact.

Blame my philosophy background, I can only be full of conviction when I pretend to be now. I know in the back of my mind, no matter how certain I am, that I could be wrong. I am unsure because I am unsure. Seeing that I've provided reasons for everything I've done, however, I could hardly be called "swaying with the breeze" Also, where exactly do you see me giving up after someone has "flexed back" at me? I have done no such thing by my read.

I'm only "flying under the radar" because I've had three papers due in the last two days (including one tomorrow?!?). I will admit I lurked out after the initial pressure on me but that's because I needed to cool down. I will respond to the points made against me by yourself, GreyICE, and Hoopla in due course, which will be when I have the time to do so.

I would also like you to briefly consider my position. I did not feel strongly about the two central wagons (yourself and Kagami) but because of pressure from ABR and GreyICE found myself (and continue to find myself) in a position where actively pushing for a wagon on my own will only be met with apathy at best and hostility at worst. This seems like a no-go. As such, I have decided to buddy ABR at least until people start listening to me again (if they ever did) because of how vocal he is. This Hoopla wagon has been a breath of fresh air to the effect that I can finally vote my actual number one scumread.

You're right, I really have no conviction for either your wagon or the Kagami wagon and only support them insofar as I felt they would lead to other lynches I feel stronger about (like Nacho, Hoopla before the Hoopla wagon happened, maybe even GreyICE). I am voting pragmatically because this game is entirely politics and buying town cred is my only perceived way to prevent my lynch, which would be detrimental to the town and my team. I am going to fight to continue living at least until there are spare mislynches to be had. So there's that.

I'm surprised he named Hoopla as his top scumread since he took so long to actually explain his suspicions of the slot. I would have expected Kagami/Sotty to be in the top 2, and the reason for dropping Kagami/Sotty was by his own admission to buddy ABR. He also included in this post he felt stronger about a Nacho lynch, which again was never explained.

Based on the Seraphim-Sotty relationship, the Townpoints here would be Sotty voteparking on Seraphim for the vast majority of their time in the game and Seraphim accurately ID'ing Kagami/Sotty/GI. The scumpoints would be Sotty's and Seraphim's suspicions on each other never really went anywhere and they both were complaining about stuff when they weren't posting about GI/Sotty/Kagami.

A lot of players had pinned Kagami and Sotty as scum so I'm not sure how obvious they were to everyone at the time. The more obvious it was then the more likely I think it was scum may have tried to distance from those two. Someone help me out with this point and let me know of they were really obvious.

Now I need to look at the following:
Kagami's ISO and her interactions with Seraphim/Ooba slot.
Ooba's posts RE: Kagami and Sotty.

[Alchemist21]

Ok, Kagami's ISO was painfully lacking in relevant info. It was mostly him arguing about his GI, Hoopla, and sotty reads (with the most emphasis on GI). There was one bit regarding Seraphim that could point to Seraphim scum. Kagami explained his townread on Seraphim by Sera not voting Kagami when he could have. Had Kagami been Town it would have been a valid reason for Town Seraphim, but knowing that Kagami was scum leaves open the possibility that Seraphim didn't vote Kagami because they were scum together.

Wait, that's actually pretty fishy considering Seraphim was saying a Sotty scumflip would implicate Kagami, and vice-versa to a lesser extent.

Let me check the chronology on that one to make sure Kagami wasn't referring to a moment before Seraphim had that interaction pegged.

[Alchemist21]

I apologize for not posting lately, my internet went to complete shit. I just caught up with the game now.

I feel much more confident about MS-town though.

Why?

His posting isn't just bullshit. I can see shit actually happening in his posts, thought-processes, etc.

Also, this vengeful idea is not a good one and it makes me suspicious of Hoopla only because I feel like it was introduced to create frivolous game theory discussion in a game that, as ABR has pointed out, really boils down to scumhunting at least on these first days. Certainly, we need to get a scumlynch right off the bat, but that's every game...so I don't understand what the point is?

The wagon on me is bullshit but because there's no case on me I'm just going to ignore it past this point.
I feel less good about the SW-slot wagon. I guess we'll see what happens with that slot.

Hum tee tum.

ABR, MS, wgeurts, GreyICE, ZZX, and Zar(Empire) are all town.

Meaning that the scumteam is within:
Kagami, sotty, Eddie, Hoopla, Nacho

Unvote
Vote: sotty

The Kagami and Eddie slots need more time. Nacho I feel should be more town than he currently is, same with Hoopla. That's from past experience, but it's enough to keep them off the town list. While I don't necessarily agree with GreyICE's initial attack on sotty for various reasons, I do think her play has been less than stellar as it only includes a 1v1 with GreyICE and has really only been reactive play. I'm not seeing any significant scumhunting, only arguments back and forth. Her vote on me reeks, seems like she did it because it was the new hip-happening thing to be doing.

sotty, why was my RVS vote on MS "icky"?

Kagami, got anything to say that's especially interesting? Why are you into the vengeful thing?

Also if any of the fucks on my wagon want to come and actually engage me and talk with me and point out some reasons why I'm scum, I would be so down. Until then, I'm just going to keep doing my thing.

Ok, this is the post I think Kagami was pointing out where Sera didn't vote Kagami. Seraphim actually chose Sotty over Kagami, but the interaction with Kagami that immediately followed resulted in Seraphim taking his vote from Sotty so it wasn't there for very long.

[Alchemist21]

Unvote
Vote: sotty

I've mulled things over. All things considered, I still want a Hoopla lynch; her being scum is a sure thing for me at this point. But I figure that's something we can do in the future, I think.

Here's my concise rationale for my vote. No way are GreyICE and Kagami scum together; same with GreyICE and sotty. A scumflip from either of them means a cleared GreyICE. The reason I want sotty over Kagami is that sotty-scum almost certainly implicates Kagami but vice versa does not hold up as well. Sotty is actually distancing away from Kagami's defense and the subsequent smackdown with GreyICE in some of her posts, as she does not respond to them at all. (Take a look back thru ISO) I could imagine Kagami as scum trying to start noise to defend her scumbuddy and push the wagon onto GreyICE. Frankly, this is not something I would expect Kagami to do unless they were scum together or Kagami was town. I can explain this more if people want but I don't have time now.

I also resent being told that I'm lurking when I have a perfectly respectable post count thank you.

Then this post came some time later where he pegs the Sotty-Kagami-GI interaction and votes Sotty, so leaving the Kagami wagon alone was long before this statement.

[Alchemist21]

Unvote
Vote: Hoopla

MY DREAMS ARE COMING TRUE

And then on the next page this happened...

[Alchemist21]

So far it looks like Seraphim tried to softdistance from Kagami-Sotty while Kagami tried to defend Sotty from GI and worm in a Seraphim Townread with it.

[Alchemist21]

Bah, I looked at Ooba's posts while Sotty and Kagami were alive.

He rallied hard for the Sotty lynch even when Nacho was getting wagoned and hard advocated Nacho Town, which I like. The only oddity is how he treated the Kagami read post Sotty's flip. He was hard Townreading the slot for Sotty-related reasons, but then voted when Kagami was at L-2 because it would have cleared 3 players. It just seems like an odd turnaround when he didn't previously have a vote on any of his scumreads during that Day phase. In a vacuum the turnaround looked like him giving up on a scumbuddy getting quickly wagoned, but considering that he wanted to clear 3 players from the scumflip makes me think it wasn't scum motivated (unless he's scum with ZZZX).

His posts at the time of the turnaround say an MS-Kagami scumpair makes sense, so now I'll have to go through that monstrous ISO to see how MS treated Sotty and Kagami.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MetalSonic

I'm sharing ZZZX's sentiments about the levels of Towniness coming from everyone, but PoE leaves me pretty sure lynching down the line of Ooba/MS/Zar wins the game, and if I take Ooba out of that pool it leaves MS/Zar. It's 4:2, so we still have 2 chances to get it right. If I haven't fucked up and taken both scum out of my lynch pool, this gets us 1 (hopefully both) scum.

(Normally I'd wait until going through Sonic's posts to decide whether to vote or not, but God knows how long that will take and I'm putting enough confidence into my PoE pool to vote there.

[Alchemist21]

@Ooba, Congratulations!

@ZZZX I'm definitely thinking MS is scum now after that wall post where he pretty much cherry picks and tried to discredit what I said and then switches to Zar for *reasons*. I still need to go through MS' early ISO and probably need to reread Zar's. I feel like the scumteam is definitely in MS/Zar/Ooba, and at this point you could pick any 2 players in the game and say there's been suspicion between them in at least one direction. The best way to go about this is to look at how they handled the Kagami and Sotty slots. With the current gamestate we lose if we mislynch twice, but unless I'm wrong about either you or Mollie then lynching down the line of MS/Ooba/Zar will result in 1 mislynch at worst. I'm still going to keep trying to figure out precisely who the scum are though because there's a minor chance that I'm completely off the mark and because I just want more practice with scumhunting.

[Alchemist21]

Do you think Ooba is more likely scum with MS or Zar, or are you going to try and figure it out post-flip?

I got yelled at by my team for voting MS, and ABR is leaning Ooba and Zar as the most likely scum.

[Alchemist21]

I'm starting on the pain in the ass of going through Sonic's ISO, and I need to ask something.

@Sonic, in the early game you said you spent 5 tokens on your games and got all the games you wanted, then you said you lied about taking tokens after seeing the player list because your team wanted the token distribution a secret. If you had no tokens to spend on alignment, then what distribution was there to keep secret?

[Alchemist21]

Also Alchemist, why haven't you commented on my thoughts of your slots interactions with Sotty/Kagami?

Since they dealt with ABR's ownership of the slot, I'm not going to speak for him to defend against your points since I'm not ABR, just as I don't expect Ooba to try to defend Seraphim's play because he's not Seraphim.

[Alchemist21]

If MS flips scum you can do whatever you want to me, because at that point a ZZZX/Mollie Townblock wins the game anyway.

[Alchemist21]

P.S That's not a scumclaim, that's a "this game is won if MS or Zar flip scum today."

[Alchemist21]

Fine. You want it, ZZZX is willing, my team wants it, and he'd be back in my lynch pool if MS or Zar flipped Town anyway.

VOTE: Ooba

[Alchemist21]

alchey what did you find when you isoed metal?

I stil haven't finished it tbh. I found he had a slight Townread on Kagami (which was reasonable at the time) and heavy early suspicion of Seraphim's slot, and for a reason I must have missed was Townreading Sotty. So far his interaction with Kagami/Sotty hasn't been as telling as I'd hoped it would be.

Up to the point I reached there are 3 people he seems to be regarding as good scumhunters: ABR, Nacho, and GI. He was pretty eager to work with ABR and GI early game, but at the point I reached was scumreading GI and Nacho. At the time both GI and Nacho were pushing Sotty.

His GI suspicion was reasonable given that there were contradictions coming from GI, but the Nacho scumread seemed more based on the idea that scum wouldn't bus Nacho, and I'm not sure this was supported by resistance to a Nacho wagon or Sonic's other scumreads being off the wagon. (It was hard getting context from his real-time posts and I was too lazy to check outside of his ISO.)

His actions make sense if he's scum trying to defend Kagami/Sotty from Nacho and GI, but I haven't seen anything 100% damning yet. I don't know how scumSonic busses, but I think if he were scum defending Sotty and Kagami from respected scumhunters, then he probably wasn't bussing Seraphim, so one of them flipping scum considerably raises the chances of the other being Town.

[Alchemist21]

Also Alchemist, why haven't you commented on my thoughts of your slots interactions with Sotty/Kagami?

Since they dealt with ABR's ownership of the slot, I'm not going to speak for him to defend against your points since I'm not ABR, just as I don't expect Ooba to try to defend Seraphim's play because he's not Seraphim.

Um... that's not really the same case? You evidently have access to ABR's thoughts and comments since he's still part of your team and you guys just swapped, while in Ooba's case, he replaced into Seraphim's place in that team, so he basically has to rely on his the teammates to understand where he was coming from.

I'll ask him if he wants to respond to it, but I doubt he will.

[Alchemist21]

He actully responded more than I thought he would.

He said his D1 posts read genuine if you put them in context and none of what you said applies. He also said he moved onto Nacho because that's what the team told him to do.

[Alchemist21]

Sonic, you can read a slot based on the previous owner's actions, just don't expect the current holder of the slot to answer for their predecessor.

[Alchemist21]

quote where i said you were super town cos i am pretty sure I have never said that.

Spoiler: Good evidence?

look at what and who is bringing hardcore analysis to the game and who isn't. metal is bringing it on, zzthing is bringing it, I am bringing it on I feel like wguerts is bringing it on in his own way. there are 3 players who aren't. grey, zarella and alchey.

Spoiler: No? Clear as day.

I have you, zzthing, metal as super town right now.

Are you satisfied?

Sonic, you can read a slot based on the previous owner's actions, just don't expect the current holder of the slot to answer for their predecessor.

Alchemist. Listen here. I am giving you a

free pass

because of my relationship of ABR. I don't see you scumhunting, I don't see you giving compelling reasons for sudden read changes, and I don't see you pushing your scumreads. According to your most recent posts, you're arriving at me-scum because of "PoE", despite townreading me most of the game, and somehow you're clearing Z out of your "PoE" despite scumreading him most of the game. This is a wrong way to play, please believe in me if you're town. I believed in you(r slot), let's not break that trust because scum are shoving dirt on us.

anyway my reads at this stage

Town
Me
Mollie
Zar
Alchemist
Ooba
Metal
Scum

I will make metal case 2moro but i just feel metal is scum.

180!!!!!!

also a tl;dr is this:

Dont be offended metal but generally ur reactions with kagami/sotty reminded me of organic mafia's reads and reactions to me and mollie.

add that to the fact that titus vca exists. you are a guy that doesnt follow people easily., yet you are just 2 steps away from worshipping titus vca even tho frankly it has been wrong so far. it felt as fake as kagami read list. Giving alchemist extra scum points tbh. but alchemist did great things today.

that and a few things including pure gut.

Let's pretend that I am scum for just 1 second. 1 Second only.

Organic mafia's reactions to you and mollie are because me and you and mollie are BEST FRIENDS. so we are the BEST FRIENDS SCUMTEAM.

Here, I don't know who is Sotty so I cannot be acting similar to her, and only Kagami is my BEST FRIEND.

So I can't be acting the same towards Sotty, and since Kagami is my BEST FRIEND, I will be very nice to her, and she would not ragequit the game so sadly

bullshit.

Add to the fact that Titus VCA exists. I'm following Titus VCA?

Fucking misrep.

Even Alchemist isn't following Titus VCA "Oh lol my top scumreads are MS and Zar lol". And if Alchemist is town, Titus would be conftown to him.

So you are misrepping me.

"Titus VCA has been wrong so far?" ????

lets take a look here

bullshit.

"Pure gut?"

Fuck you and your pure gut bullshit.

Look at your bullshit gut to bullshit read people

No matter how much i trust ika he is not god, people can be wrong.

also i feel you are town but something is fishy about you. i cant grasp it but my gut is telling me not to trust you.

(To Mollie)

Mollie was "lynchable" because of his bullshit GUT

hahahahahaha

it felt as fake as kagami read list.

Do you know who's read list is as fake as kagami read list? YOURS.

Your tl;dr is all

misrep

and bullshit and

liar

and I don't think any good can come out of your "case"


I take back Zar. It's a ZZZX/Ooba scumteam. Look at him chainsaw the guts out of the lynch.

Mollie, you are being buddied to by this super fake reads maker. He's keeping the entire game lynchable, including yourself.

He's going 100% with the flow of the game, as dictated by you, and is just staying alive to win at 3p. If you trust him.

Don't turn into the Twin Trap people, Sonic. They lynched me because they thought the same thing.

Anyway, if you think it's Ooba/ZZZX then please switch back to Ooba. If he flips scum we will lynch ZZZX tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

@Mollie, why did you unvote?

[Alchemist21]

He actully responded more than I thought he would.

He said his D1 posts read genuine if you put them in context and none of what you said applies. He also said he moved onto Nacho because that's what the team told him to do.

I don't understand how ABR's entire recollection of his posts "reading genuine" involves not considering GreyICE's kept bringing up that SilverWolf had excused herself of this game out of "RL making it hard to replace into this game" while actively posting elsewhere, when he had already mentioned knowing SW wasn't comfortable playing scum. To me it feels like ignoring something that could have helped stringing her up in Day one if he had factored his experience with her and what he had spotted. Or why if he was convicted by his early pushes on SW he he somehow found a way of townreading the slot based on a single scum game by Kagami.

It also explain why/how your slot was somehow townreading both Ooba and Sotty in 1952 when he asks them both whether they would rather be mislynched to protect their Nacho townread, sicne he had been expressing suspicion on the slot before the replacement and had Ooba/Seraphim among his suspects for reasons stated several times before that comment.

Well all Town players probably think their posts read genuine because they're genuinely Town. "Would you rather be mislynched...?" was probably a rhetorical question. For whatever reason, ABR was scumreading Nacho and trying to get him lynched. That part's not difficult for me to understand because ABR likes to focus on scum and get them lynched (which is why he even wrote a guide with that title).

[Alchemist21]

@Sonic, what's your read on Zar right now?

[Alchemist21]

Ok. These last few pages make me think it's ZZZX/Ooba.

I still want to know why Mollie unvoted altogether. We need her support.

Also, Titus has said in our PT she has the bad luck to hit the Townies first that end up in her VCA lynchpool. She hasn't given an updated VCA vut she still seems to be pretty confident in her first one.

VOTE: ZZZX

P-edit: It's on the wiki, and it's a few years old. I can give you the link now if you want.

[Alchemist21]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... em_Lynched

[Alchemist21]

what is that link even supposed to mean?

mafia is nto a game that can be solved bya guideline sadly so... wahts ur point here?

It's the link Sonic asked for. It's not meant to make a point.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: metal

Mollie please come back to ZZZX or switch to Ooba with me.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: metal

Mollie please come back to ZZZX or switch to Ooba with me.

why do you suddenly not want to lynch metal?

Because you, ABR, and Titus were all telling me he's Town. Then when we had an Ooba wagon ZZZX's reaction to it wasn't great; he acted like he suspects Ooba but he's voted away when he could. I feel like Ooba and ZZZX are trying to distance from each other while managing to push a wagon together, and that's making me more confident that Ooba and ZZZX are the scumteam and MS is Town.

***

Also, Titus just finished the updated VCA and still as ZZZX and Ooba as the most likely scumteam, with you and MS as the most likely Town. These are the tl;dr's of her VCA.

She says Metal is Town due to being wagoned alongside two wagons that flipped scum and thinks it's unlikely Town had wagons on 3 scum like that, and still says the pattern is strikingly similar to Egg in Uncouth Mafia.

She has Mollie as strong Town since she was a CW to a scumflip.

Zar is probTown because although there are a few instances where Zar

could

be scum, the voting patterns make him unlikely scum with ZZZX or Ooba.

Ooba is the weaker scumread for her based on Seraphim lurking through D1 and she thinks Sotty voting the slot then leaving looked like scum bussing and leaving.

ZZZX is the stronger scumread for her because whenever he was voting for scum, he would leave the wagon if it got too serious only if there was a viable wagon to join. She believes Town that gets cold feet on a wagon leaves regardless of the viability of alternate wagons.

[Alchemist21]

So it again boils down to MS\Alch vs a slightly possible mollie\ZZZX. Voting patterns fit etc.

Alch
- your analysis is so shallow.
- Your slot completely ignores everything from the point I replaced in - and this is for ABR, Titus VCA etc. etc. - because it's quite clear I'm town this game.
- Your slot cherry picks points against Sera. Even greyIce called the ISO "Sera's heart was in the right place etc"
- Me with ZZZX is impossible because my vote would have lynched him if not for the deadline mixup

And you still haven't answered 'Who's scum if I flip town?'

If you flip Town I would think MS/Zar. I really doubt you'll flip Town though. I have not ignored everything since you replaced in. In fact at one point I reversed my read on your slot because of how you handled Kagami and Sotty when you replaced in. Again, bussing is an invalid argument for not being scum with someone because at this point any pair of players has had "suspicion" cast in at least one direction between them. You and ZZZX have shown an attempt to work together while maintaining distance this phase. If I die now, I die telling you all it's ZZZX and Ooba.

@Mollie, when I flip Town, you go for these two and DO NOT STOP.

Venge: Ooba

[Alchemist21]

Also, @Mollie, Titus says she's mad because you are literally repeating Survivor Mafia. She's 95% confident on ZZZX and 75% on Ooba and would bet the game on them as the scumteam.

[Alchemist21]

She knows she can't read you by behavior, but her VCA does not factor in behavior, just votes. And her VCA's are very accurate and she's capable of nailing scum almost every time. (She named Survivor as an exception to her usual accuracy because there were no internal vote counts in that game.)

[Alchemist21]

Also, @Mollie, Titus says she's mad because you are literally repeating Survivor Mafia. She's 95% confident on ZZZX and 75% on Ooba and would bet the game on them as the scumteam.

I certainly hope so cos we won the survivor game as town.

I still get a chuckle out of this:

Question 5: Who did the most players say has it coming?

Everyone said Titus. Everyone is right.

altho really

lynching metal wld better fit the survivor game if you and metal happened to be town.

I'm pretty sure that's what Titus is trying to tell you.

[Alchemist21]

Well apparantly I don't either, because Titus just told me I inadvertantly agreed with you about lynching Metal. She said Harry Potter, Knight Errant, or Uncouth had complete VC's and would be better references.

The bottom line is that her VCA is usually highly accurate and she has Ooba/ZZZX as her scumspects from both her VCA's this game.

[Alchemist21]

What will my flip tell you about Zar?

[Alchemist21]

What will my flip tell you about Zar?

VOTE: alchemist

This is interesting - why an Alch preference over Metal?

this is where I am at altho i feel like I have already sort of explained it.

in the nightless games that i have played/spectate there comes a point right around close to mylo where town starts to lose their frigging minds and become bloodthirsty paranoid psychopaths willing to lynch anything with a pulse. emotional break downs begin to occur, threats revolve around blacklisting, pple start telling other pple as to why they hate them and their is just sort of this panicky I don't know what the fuck is going on type of severe paranoia where you can have a mason level townread and still wonder if they are somehow scum.

I kind of akin to it as being in alaska during the summer where there is no night and pple get a little crazy. I am not seeing this in alchey or zarella and it is confusing me.

scum seem to sit back cos w/o a nk the game gets harder and so they either take potshots at town (metal) or go for any wagon that remotely may grow legs (alchey).

the townread on zarella rests entirely on emp and what I know of emp cos zarella is not impressing me that much. well, there is also singer's reachouts which make me think he is town. I have vague niggles there. I don't like how he ignored the ooba and metal wagons.

but I have much stronger niggles about alchey/metal. gamestate healthwise, I think it wld be better to lynch metal cos there is a good chance he might be scum and I am tired of his baiting. and tbh that is where I might end up for that reason.

for me an alchey flip will hopefully allow me to poe it out. whether he flips town or scum I have more to work with.

ooba and zzthing are ateing out of their minds. it is reminding me of anything goes and how I was just ready to be lynched cos the suspicion on me for the reasons given were pretty retarded.

mebbe I am wrong. I don't know. in my heart I feel like alchey or metal is the best place to start.

How is being willing to lynch anything with a pulse different from joining any wagon that grows legs? That sounds like the same thing to me. Also, I'd thought you would have realized by now I'm not the most emotional of players, and I certainly wouldn't use threats of hate and blacklists ever, and panicking is something I generally try to avoid.

Titus is particularly frustrated with you because you keep saying her VCA sucks. She also wants you to know that Town

shouldn't

be paranoid at this point because it gives scum room to keep every option open, and it's also frustrating for her that you don't like the lack of paranoia. She doesn't want to give scum an out by telling them it's ok to be paranoid because it allows them to keep all their options open.

[Alchemist21]

How is being willing to lynch anything with a pulse different from joining any wagon that grows legs? That sounds like the same thing to me. Also, I'd thought you would have realized by now I'm not the most emotional of players, and I certainly wouldn't use threats of hate and blacklists ever, and panicking is something I generally try to avoid.

Titus is particularly frustrated with you because you keep saying her VCA sucks. She also wants you to know that Town shouldn't be paranoid at this point because it gives scum room to keep every option open, and it's also frustrating for her that you don't like the lack of paranoia. She doesn't want to give scum an out by telling them it's ok to be paranoid because it allows them to keep all their options open.

that reminds me, did titus reply about the fact that shes 95% sure about me scum even tho i proved "titus cant read me"? or are you ignoring my posts?

Yeah, read the pagetop, or are you ignoring my posts?

[Alchemist21]

Yo. I'm busy as heck, but I have to post the obligatory check-in before deadline.

Most important comments to least important:

---

The Alchemist wagon is hilarious. The fact that ZZZX is so hard to push, is absolutely awe-inducing.

I don't think {Zar, Pirate Mollie, ZZZX} will be planning to remove their votes anytime soon, so I guess this is the real deal. Alchemist gets lynched today, because his wagon hits 3 first. It's not such a /BAD/ thing, because it's one of the worst and desperate plays that a ZZZXteam will make -- he and his team will be flushed out like the poop from a toilet, regardless if its with Mollie, Ooba, or Alchey himself (I'll be lynched the next day, sure, but ZZZX will hang after my flip. He might try to pull a fast one on Zar, though, 4223, but unlike ZZZX I don't believe the town is comprised of idiots 4408. Not to that level.)

However, I will not dignify the wagon with a hammer. You all can wait till deadline for your lynch, noobs.

If ZZZX/Mollie tries to ninja a wagon on me during the night, because they realised how the Alch lynch lacked so much long-term planning, I trust you, Ooba, to not make the stupid choice (of sheeping them).

For now, how about you show your disdain and protest by placing a vote on ZZZX?

---

So it again boils down to MS\Alch vs a slightly possible mollie\ZZZX. Voting patterns fit etc.

Alch
- your analysis is so shallow.
- Your slot completely ignores everything from the point I replaced in - and this is for ABR, Titus VCA etc. etc. - because it's quite clear I'm town this game.
- Your slot cherry picks points against Sera. Even greyIce called the ISO "Sera's heart was in the right place etc"
- Me with ZZZX is impossible because my vote would have lynched him if not for the deadline mixup

And you still haven't answered 'Who's scum if I flip town?'

If you flip Town I would think MS/Zar. I really doubt you'll flip Town though. I have not ignored everything since you replaced in. In fact at one point I reversed my read on your slot because of how you handled Kagami and Sotty when you replaced in. Again, bussing is an invalid argument for not being scum with someone because at this point any pair of players has had "suspicion" cast in at least one direction between them. You and ZZZX have shown an attempt to work together while maintaining distance this phase. If I die now, I die telling you all it's ZZZX and Ooba.

@Mollie, when I flip Town, you go for these two and DO NOT STOP.

Venge: Ooba

You've also admitted that ZZZX is more likely scum than Ooba.
Why are you venging Ooba and not ZZZX?

mebbe I am wrong. I don't know. in my heart I feel like alchey or metal is the best place to start.

I get what you're saying - it's just that if you both had stayed at Metal - this would have been the situation:

ZZZX (2) - ZZZX,
Metal (2) - Mollie, ZZZX
Alch (1) - Zar

With me deciding between ZZZX and Metal. By shifting to Alchemist (and by virtue of making sure Alch reaches 3 votes first) - you've made it effectively, lynch Alch today.

If it is you\ZZZX, the shift to Alch was a strategic one.

Ooba. Let's say you're town. You simply cannot be taken for granted to vote Metal instead of ZZZX when you've already expressed suspicion on him in 4364 and 4190.

Also, if you're town, you should notice the horrific significance of 4313? I won't spell it out for you; you should understand what I'm getting at. In fact, you should be thankful that I'm one of those here who has a brain.

Alch
- your analysis is so shallow.

Could be because of a lack of experience/analytic ability. I agree with this statement, actually.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... em_Lynched

This is sweet. Thanks! It was a fun read.

well im sorry i didn't believe in wge, neither did the rest of the people (Zar, Grey, Ooba, wgeurts) on the 4 people wagon

Wge didn't believe in wge? Are you just copy pasting without reading the game or wat

You read me right. Wge didn't believe in wge. That's why he killed himself.

---

Hey everyone, I want you all to look here. Take a mental picture. Remember this:

Spoiler: See this in your mind's eye

So it again boils down to MS\Alch vs a slightly possible mollie\ZZZX. Voting patterns fit etc.

Alch
- your analysis is so shallow.
- Your slot completely ignores everything from the point I replaced in - and this is for ABR, Titus VCA etc. etc. - because it's quite clear I'm town this game.
- Your slot cherry picks points against Sera. Even greyIce called the ISO "Sera's heart was in the right place etc"
- Me with ZZZX is impossible because my vote would have lynched him if not for the deadline mixup

And you still haven't answered 'Who's scum if I flip town?'

If you flip Town I would think MS/Zar. I really doubt you'll flip Town though. I have not ignored everything since you replaced in. In fact at one point I reversed my read on your slot because of how you handled Kagami and Sotty when you replaced in. Again, bussing is an invalid argument for not being scum with someone because at this point any pair of players has had "suspicion" cast in at least one direction between them. You and ZZZX have shown an attempt to work together while maintaining distance this phase. If I die now, I die telling you all it's ZZZX and Ooba.

@Mollie, when I flip Town, you go for these two and DO NOT STOP.

Venge: Ooba

When under pressure, this is the message of Town. Remember that now. Town response under pressure.

Now, let's take a look at something that is not the Town response under pressure:

Spoiler: Take a good hard look

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@Metal

I asked you before I 180 on my venge if you can hit scum 100% tomorrow.

I didnt get a yes.

if you want me to venge even with that then I have a really short response:

Fuck Off No

Its really simple.

also me wanted to live as town is not true? fuck your misrep i am done with you.

cus town would love to get mislynched so much #scarcasm4dumbpeople.

Remember all that? Good. I expect all of you to identify what a Town looks like and what does not the next time.


See you all on Day 8.

Titus is more confident in ZZZX, but I'm equally confident in both of them.

@Mollie, you shouldn't be on the same wagon as ZZZX and Ooba.

Spoiler: Star Wars humor

You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to lynch the scum, not join them!

P-edit: Too late.

[Alchemist21]

Alchey you are kind of cute. I want to hydra with you outside of game. )

Sorry, but I'm not the hydra type. Lol

[Alchemist21]

If you're into Micros, Micro 474 needs some /in's.

[Alchemist21]

Well shit.

VOTE: Zar

I actually won't be mad if you guys still want to lynch me at this point.

[Alchemist21]

Go with Zar first. Ooba's and Seraphim's slot did a good job of distancing all game if they're MS's partner.

[Alchemist21]

I will flip

Spoiler:

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