Newbie 617 (Over!)

[Brandi]

Hey everyone, it's good to be here.

[Brandi]

I'm not sure if I could even count that as a real first game, seeing as how it was very skewed from the beginning. (7 cops, two mafia. woo!)

Vote: mike-zim

for laughing maniacally about the role he recieved. (Only scum would do such a thing!)

[Brandi]

Who are our IC's? (Every newbie game has 3 right? Or is are they only required to have 1?)

ICs will (in my case) be the bottom three on the list.

[Brandi]

Wow, my grammar is failing horribly. I need more caffeine. =(

[Brandi]

Obviously I was being facetious AngelMouse. ^_^

[Brandi]

@caf19: Heck yes I'm eager! Is that so uncommon for newbies? I think that this is going to be a lot of fun! Wooooo~ ^___^

[Brandi]

Bah! This inactivity makes me sad.

Well i still cant see anyone suspicious. Damn it

How do you detect who is who?

Maybe you should look at the mafia wiki to get a better general knowledge on how to hunt scum? I think there are some pretty helpful articles out there... Though I can't really point to anything specific at the moment. My brain is all fuzzy right now, I just woke up, heh. I'm just gonna go back to sleep...

[Brandi]

How interesting.

I can also support a Brandi vote, but more for her opportunism in voting Mike Zim.

Opportunism? Where did you get that from? It seems like you are just blatantly attempting to misrepresent my intentions despite the fact that I have previously stated that the reasonings for my vote were entirely facetious. It also seems that you are more so voting for the way I present myself as a person rather than anything that I have actually said or done. I don't really appreciate the ad Hominem, and because of such I find you to be a bit scummy.

Unvote: Mike Zim
Armlx, IGMEOY.

Clammy's vote strikes me as a bit odd as well, but not as much suspicious as that of Armlx's.

...and much'a'mora for seeking after the IC's in post 17, null tell, but so is knowing who they are.

The vote that you randomly placed on me for coming from a screwed up cop game has just as much basis as you voting for me for inquiring who and how many IC's we have. You already proclaimed that being inquisitive about such is a "null tell" which basically means 'not a tell'. Why place more emphasis on one ill reasoning than another?

[Brandi]

Also, welcome to the game, Bazza-Scumfinder!

[Brandi]

I presented a flawed argument? Clammy voted for me for being in a screwed up game, a game that I was pro-town in, no less. His vote was

also

random. Don't claim that it was because I presented a flawed argument when others have clearly presented flawed arguments as well.

[Brandi]

Nice going with that relativist fallacy. It was entirely random, and I made it quite clear that it was such. Obviously if it were a serious vote I would state that it was in fact a serious vote.

[Brandi]

EBWOP: And I mean obviously because, in the beginning:

@ Brandi...was that a serious first vote in the game rather than a random one?

Obviously I was being facetious AngelMouse. ^_^

I was just checking! Tone of voice is sadly lost here.

She got that it was random, why was it so hard for you to figure out?

[Brandi]

EBWOP again: Hmm I read your 'evidently' as 'entirely'. I apologize for that first sentence in #56 then. ;P

[Brandi]

Random votes don't usually have attempts at logic behind them.

It wasn't an attempt at logic, I was just being silly. ;P Like the people who start off random voting for others because their usernames sound sinister, or because their avatar 'screams' scum. Such things like that. Its not a good or realistic reason, but its not intended to be a

serious

reason.

[Brandi]

Thanks brandi

wow things are becoming stagnant, we really need more posts!

after that little confrontation between brandi and Armix i wouldn't be surprised if one of them were mafia....of course it could be an attempt at distancing.

I'm more inclined to believe that Brandi is scum, although her rebutals seem unflawed, my last argument against her still feels valid. I would have liked an answer as to why you were pretty flippant in the beginning Brandi, you obvously read my post, didn't you feel the need to comment on my suspicion??

Is this usually your style in the beginning....what do you think about Armix and his comments about you???

Well to answer to your specualations here:

She seems a little flippant....and saying things like "my minds fuzzy" is often what i view as being over cautious

I apologize for not addressing you earlier, that was rude of me. I'd have to say that the only reason I stated that my mind was 'fuzzy' was because it was 8 am and I didn't feel like looking around the wiki to direct Mike to something helpful. (I also don't know my way around the wiki too well like some of the other players here do) I was pretty much making a comment that wasn't really directed at the actual game at hand.

I'm not completely aware of what you mean by 'flippant'. I take it that you mean it somewhat a long the lines of eccentric or enthusiastic. I admit that I am enthusiastic, but I wouldn't see that as something negative, or scummy. This is my first

official

game, because my previous game was never actually a

real

game. It was very skewed due to a huge mod error.

I'm not aware of my 'usual' style, because I haven't had much experience at all to label any certain mannerisms 'usual'. I just know that the way I see the beginning of the game as is fun and friendly.

I'm not really 100% on my stance on Armlyx as of yet. (Or anyone else for that matter!) I was a bit suspicious of him when he was set on keeping his vote on me for my random vote, and when I confronted him about it he said he was unaware that my vote was random. So IMO, it feels like it was a misunderstanding. Then again, he could just be deceiving me. However, I don't believe this game has enough content yet to get a very good read on anyone. I do know that that can change at any time.

As for you, Bazza, well, you haven't done anything but speculate on a few players. I can't really find much scumminess in that, you're just throwing your opinions out there and asking valid questions, which seems pretty pro-town to me.

I do agree with you that we need more posts, I don't believe the games activity levels are TOO low though. Everyone has posted at least once I believe.


Hooray I made a long post!! Or maybe not hooray, I know some people hate looking at walls of text. I can be pretty verbose at times... ^^

[Brandi]

...I've never heard of hiding information or opinions as pro-town... Especially not on day one when no power roles have had any opportunity to act....

[Brandi]

Making a post soon~

[Brandi]

Ok so, I did a quick re-read of everything posted up until now, and I still haven't gathered any major suspicions yet. I'm also a bit weary to read too deeply into everyone else's posts when 2 people haven't done any serious posting at all.

I do want to address the armlx-Mike-Zim thing.

Armlx, I know what you're insinuating, and I have to say that while I think that you MAY be correct in your assumption, I don't think you should have put even that thought out there. Because by insinuating such you are doing the very thing that you don't want to do:

There are, and most of them have to do with giving out information that would

help the scum

direct their kills correctly.

It wasn't until that post that I realized what you meant. I'd like to point out that also, just because you have a hunch about someone, doesn't necessarily mean you are correct. Not everyone is going to want to follow your hunches either, and you are in no way confirmed town as of yet. For now I have a strong feeling that you are town, but I'm still leaving my mind open to the possibility that you could be scum.

Also, I'd like to point out I agree with the way Caf is thinking here:

I fail to see the reason for defending Mike that armlx is hinting at so I'm just gonna have to treat him like everybody else.

I believe it is too early to be giving anyone in this game special attention, As I mentioned before there are 2 people who haven't posted any major content and the town currently has 0 solid, confirmed, information.

I'd like for Mike and Brandi to give their opinions on each other please.

At first I thought that Mike was just being overly enthusiastic. (not a tell) Now I think he is enthusiastic but a bit overly submissive and cautious at the same time. He doesn't want to say or do the wrong thing. However, I think he is doing it in the sense that he just doesn't want to hurt the town. In some cases being overly cautious would be scummy, but in this case, it seems leaning towards town. Not that I condone being overly cautious, I would prefer if Mike would try to think for himself rather than just follow along with what everyone else is suggesting.

One more thing:

I would like to hear more from Angelmouse and Qman.

Q-man has posted more than Angelmouse, but Q-mans posts are of much less value than Angelmouses thus far, which isn't saying much.

Q-man confirms, says he he'll post more when hes functional, tells Darox that he did make a post, states that no one else has posted much content, then says he'll be making a post 'tomorrow.' (which is now today) Hopefully we will see something from him soon, I'd like to hear him actually give us some opinions to work with.

AngelMouse has made 3 posts outside of confirming, and her last post was 3 days ago. She gives input twice, and once she was basically repeating something that I had already said to mike.

@mike - I don't think we are at a point at all that we can be making concrete desions on who is who. If you are completely new to the site, may i sugesst reading the wiki and possibly some other newbie games to get a flavour of what happens.

^Essentially the same thing I said to Mike here in post subject #46:

Maybe you should look at the mafia wiki to get a better general knowledge on how to hunt scum? I think there are some pretty helpful articles out there...

This makes me wonder if shes just saying it for the sake of being redundant or rather she just didn't bother reading what I said at all.

Anyway, I can't say that I am suspicious of neither Qman nor Angelmouse, but their lack of input isn't doing much good for the town. Perhaps Q-man will be giving us content today, but I'm completely unsure with Angelmouse. If she doesn't say anything by tomorrow perhaps we should ask for a prod.

[Brandi]

armlx... wrong game. lol.

[Brandi]

Yes but scum probably have picked up on it as well. =/ Thats my point. Unless the scum are just really stupid, which would be wishful thinking I suppose.

[Brandi]

Brandi- She said she got it, yet she still voted him for it in her first post....

That makes absolutely no sense armlx. Thats the most backwards crap logic I've ever seen in my life. I'm scummy because I realized something

now

that I didn't before? Something that didn't even come to mind until

after

you noted it in a much later post? It's called progression of events. REGARDLESS, my vote for Mike was R A N D O M. GENERALLY on page one there is this thing that takes place called 'random voting' in which the players vote for another player with out any serious logic or basis behind their vote. For more information, check the Mafia wiki here: Random Vote

Anyway, I only stated I understood your point, and that you MIGHT be correct. I

never

said I

accepted

your point. To completely accept your assumption on Mike would be MAJOR WIFOM.

Also, I disagree with your stance on Bazza. He has come off as slightly scummy to me in other ways, but definitely not in the way you proclaimed. He was just posting his assumptions, like everyone else. Nothing he has done or said has been remotely harmful thus far and I definitely see no indication of where he was insinuating that any sort of wagon should be formed, either.

You are gradually moving into my scumdar armlx with each post you make. I figured that you perhaps had a genuine interest in helping the town when you pointed out your certainty on Mike-Zim. However, you seem to be a bit

too

focused on him much

too

early. I don't find it very pro-town of you to only give your input when its relevant to you or your own personal agenda. I think that someone who is genuinely pro-town would try to give at least the slightest opinion on multiple aspects of the general conversation.

Mike Zim, however, is not an experienced player, and his statement is very easy to read.

Inexperienced != confirmed town.

His inexperienced methods of play could just as much be newb scum as it could be newb town.

I'm inexperienced as well yet you didn't have any problem jumping on me at the beginning.

Armlx, I think you have a very, very bad case of

Confirmation Bias.

If

Mike

Armlx genuinely did believe that he felt Mike was a power-role there was no need to mention it so early in the game when there was little pressure on Mike.

QFT.


Most scummy: Armlx, for reasons stated above. Which I believe is still not enough to warrant a vote. Definitely a HOS though.

Second most: Bazza, for his seemingly over defensiveness towards mike. Not necessarily a tell. FOS for this.


Neutral (In no particular order): Mike-Zim; Q-man; Angelmouse; Cammy

Least scummy would have to be Caf. Hes given a lot of unbiased opinions and seems to have a genuine interest in helping the town. Second least scummy would be Darox, for the same reasons as Caf only just a little less apparent.

BTW, I would like Cammy to give his input on some things, he hasn't been posting much as of lately, I almost completely forgot about him.)

[Brandi]

I specifically stated I found him scummy for

different

reasons.

...I disagree with your stance on Bazza. He has come off as

slightly scummy to me in other ways

...

Bazza, for his seemingly

over defensiveness towards mike

.

He is number 2, but only because everyone else seems just neutral or simply very pro-town.

[Brandi]

Never mind about what I said about Clammy, I guess I didn't realize his last post was yesterday. It just feels like he doesn't have much of a presence here... Though some input would be nice whenever he gets back. And Q-man still hasn't posted yet today even though he said he would. I'm sure he has important things to do though. I would have made a post yesterday if I hadn't been so pre-occupied the whole day.

[Brandi]

One thing I will commend you on Armlx is your level of activity here. Its good that you can help to keep discussion going when needed. =)

[Brandi]

armlx never mentioned that I was flippant. He said something or other about opportunism or something like that. what the heck does flippant mean anyway?

[Brandi]

Q-man said he'd post today and hasn't. I'd say a prod to AngelMouse and Q-man. Clammy said that he'd be away for a while yesterday... so he doesn't need a prod.

[Brandi]

Now i got very early on at what armlx was hinting at and i think the matter should have been left alone from there.

Those that forced armlx's hand, so to speak, are those that i feel are much more suspicious at the moment than either of these two.

So you are saying that asking for explanations for motives from other players is anti-town? EXCUSE ME? Obviously if someone states something and then refuses to give a reason for it, people are going to ask questions. There is NO way around it and it should be EXPECTED. You DO realize that this is a

newbie

game right? YOU may have the experience necessary to easily detect reasonings without them being given, but a lot of us do not. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a bit harsh in tone, but I'm completely appalled at the audacity of those statements.

I didn't like the first post. It may have been random, yes, but i found the reasoning too strong for this.

"It may have

been random

had no reasoning, but the reasoning was too strong"

Lets take a look at the random vote 1 VS random vote 2.

vote: Brandi was reading you were recently a cop

*

, obvscum

**

Vote: mike-zim for laughing maniacally about the role he recieved

*

. (Only scum would do such a thing!)

**

*

= random/silly/non-serious reasoning

**

= sarcastically claiming it to be an obvious scum tell.

Also, just for kicks lets throw in the third comment.

Vote: Bazza cause Bazza is Australian slang.

*

I also think Mike is acting rather sinister. You know they must be evil if they have a mad scientist laugh!

In conclusion, its obvious. Bringing it up is just beating a dead, invalid point. But anyway, there are more important things to point out, such as this:

I'm not too found of throwing suspicion on players that haven't properly made their mark on the game.

Obvious misrepresentation. Please point out where I attempted to throw suspicion on the inactive players for their inactivity. I, just like many others, just pointed out that the game was in need of more participation from yourself and Q-man.

I did point out a minor,

POSSIBLE

suspicion in regards to you, but it had NOTHING to do with your

inactivity.

It had everything to do with your previous statements.

Anyway, I'm glad you came and gave your input on something. I'm a bit surprised Q-man hasn't posted yet, when he already stated that he would have made a post by the first.

I'm going to end this post for now, but I do want to address other things that have been said by other people. I'll do that in another post when I have time.

[Brandi]

I swear i am townie, voting for me is a mistake.

I really, really don't like that appeal.

Same here, Darox. =/

Very bad move Bazza. You claim to be an experienced player, yet you use the obvious logical fallacy of an appeal to emotion. If you want others to regard you as a townie, statements such as this are a major way to screw things up for you. Even if you are pro-town, it will be hard to take you seriously after something like this. Bazza, I'd like for you to explain your appeal to emotion, and why you thought it was necessary.

@Mike-Zim.

You don't have to technically be aggressive to not be submissive. I agree that this is very exciting, but I'd think that it would be more exciting to try and join in on the action than to just sit on the side lines and cheer. Also, not everyone has someone actively protecting them on a hunch like what is happening for you, you shouldn't use such as a crutch to not put serious input. Not saying that you haven't been contributing, just putting that out there for future reference.

Moving on..

I find it odd that that in regards to what Darox said here:

For now, I am fine with Mike and armlx both staying alive today, but if I don't hear what armlx has to say on the matter day 2 then I think we should lynch both of them, starting with armlx.

Reason being, theres two likely reasons why he is doing this, and one of them involves them both being scum.

Clammy says:

Cannot believe this was missed!

But then says:

smooth work convincing the town to follow you..

If you say that what he said was majorly overlooked then why do you claim that he got the town to follow him? If we followed a long with anything he has said, it was most definitely not that.

Personally I take Darox's comment as pure speculation. But I do not see any reasoning as to why Darox would claim that Mike should be lynched solely because of the way Armlx has been regarding him. Sure he is being defensive of Mike, but I really believe Mike never needed a defense at the time he began defending him. Mike had done nothing to incriminate himself. It would be unfair to decide to lynch him solely based on the actions of another player towards him.

I'd be more worried if you weren't suspicious.

So you are saying we should be suspicious of you?

If anything, your attack has made me believe you're protown

So...attacking a person who hasn't done anything suspicious is pro-town? Obviously you believe Clammy's suspicions against you to be invalid. Does this mean you support straw-manning and red herrings? I'm very confused by your logic.

As for Caf, I agree with most of his recent post, except for here:

Personally, notwithstanding the relative inactivity of Qman and angelmouse (who need to post more today so we can form a proper opinion of them), I'd be happy with a lynch of either mike or Bazza.

..

..


I feel that pushing for mike's lynch might be somewhat as a reaction to armlx's confirmation.

I don't think a lynch of Mike just to get something out of armlx is a very good idea, and, as I stated in regards to one of Darox's previous statements, kind of unfair.

For now Caf, I still feel that you are pretty pro-town. As for Clammy, I don't feel comfortable with his reserved-nature, it makes me feel like he is trying to hide something, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Darox's responses to Clammy's suspicions towards him have me a bit puzzled and I don't know if I should take it as scummy or not.

Thats about it for now, I guess. I may give the game another re-read just in case I missed something crucial.

[Brandi]

definitely agree that those who pressed me were bordering on role digging.

OMG UR TOTALLY RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111one HOW DARE ANYONE QUESTION ANOTHER PERSONS REASONINGS FOR THEIR STATEMENTS?! BACKING UP OPINIONS? PSSHH, WHO NEEDS TO DO THAT!?

I HAVE AN IDEA! FROM NOW ON LETS JUST PLACE ALL OF OUR VOTES AND STATE OUR OPINIONS BUT GIVE NO REASONS FOR THEM! IF anyone questions us we'll just say they are role fishing! THAT will make for a good game!

Thanks for that Armlx, if it weren't for you I would have never realized that mafia was all about expecting people to read each others minds so that they wouldn't have to back up their opinions!

HOW SILLY OF ME TO GO THROUGH THIS ENTIRE GAME POSTING MY ANALYSIS! FOR SHAME. I WAS DOING IT THE HARD WAY.

PS: I'd also like to thank Angelmouse for teaching me that all random votes are bad. I had no idea that SERIOUS was a synonym for random!

Armlx and Angelmouse are the best IC's ever! I LEARNED A LOT FROM THEM.

VOTE: Everyone who random votes and isn't a mind reader

/sarcasm

[Brandi]

ran·dom

____

-adjective

1.

proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern:

the random selection of numbers.

2.

Statistics

. of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.

...
___

—Idiom

6.

at random, without definite aim, purpose, method, or adherence to a prior arrangement; in a haphazard way:

Contestants were chosen at random from the studio audience.

Random voting wouldn't be worth anything if it wasn't analyzable

Analyze this:

[roll]1d9[/roll]

[Brandi]

or not.

[Brandi]

Original Roll String: 1d9

1 9-Sided Dice: (9) = 9

I think thats it.

[Brandi]

LOL. The dice landed on #8, armlx is number 8 on the player list. Thats kind of amusing.

[Brandi]

OMG YAY ITS Q-MAN!! *gives Q-man sunflower seeds*

[Brandi]

Qman, what is your opinion on clammy?

[Brandi]

Bazza was browsing the forums a few minutes after Q-man first posted, so maybe he'll be posting soon. I'd really like to hear his opinions on the votes hes been getting, and explain his appeal to emotion.

[Brandi]

wow, didn't expect caf to make a scumlist :B I gotta read this

[Brandi]

EBWOP: by MAKE, I mean, "make it onto" a scumlist.

[Brandi]

My plea was for two reasons, (1) there is no harm in telling the truth, and me saying it should not be underestimated (2) An experiment which has been useful in previous games...When someone is the victim of a bandwagon they purposely do a move that (although not incriminating) is questionable....the people who jump on that most aggresively and quickly are often scum.

I really can't argue with point one, that there is no harm in telling the truth. Because if you are town, it would in fact be a mistake to lynch you. With point 2, I don't think that whoever jumps on 'the quickest' always works...

I HAVE seen games where a person uses an appeal to emotion and genuinely was town, so I suppose that voting you solely for an appeal to emotion wouldn't be enough basis. I think Darox provided other reasons a long with his vote, but armlx did not.

Also, I see your reply to Caf, but I don't see any indication of why you think he is being scummy.

I am certain Armix is mafia. His certainty on Mike is just FAR FAR too scummy, As Scum he would have killed Mike night One and hoped that we looked at him as a townie after Mike is revealed to be a townie. (Only someone with extra knowledge would be so certain)

Said scenario is plausible, said certainty is slightly contradictory. You say that Armlx is scummy for his certainty of mikes role, but would it not be equally scummy to be certain of armlx's role? I could just as easily argue that you and armlx are scum buddies and that you are just bussing him for his bad play and crap logic. If armlx was lynched and appeared as scum you would look more town for pointing fingers at him. I'm not saying that this is the case, but its the same kind of thing with your argument on armlx. So, how certain are you? As certain of his being mafia as armlx is certain of mike being town?

[Brandi]

Nothing much to say about your second post Bazza except for that you now have 3 votes on you, not just 2. Also I wasn't aware of any deadline, I meant to question caf where he got that 12 days left. I know the mod said if he wants to make a deadline he will, but I didn't see that there actually was one yet...

[Brandi]

It is not contradictory, Mike's certainty was based on One post (which i discredited in my last post) My certainty is based on dozens of posts and actions by Mike.
Also, if i were mafia i would not dream of bussing my buddy on Day 1 of this set-up, that would leave 7 townies and 1 mafia.....it would be almost impossible to pull off the win. Armix's certainty came within the first page...i didn't suspect Armix til more recently when i thought out of his possible motives.

Mike? You mean Armlx? Anyway, noted. But I have seen a game where a guy bussed his buddy on D1 and won the entire game without garnering very little if any suspicion. But it wasn't F11, it was California...

Also, I suppose I really can't argue with your arguments towards Armlx, they seem pretty valid. I'd like to see Armlx try to refute your points first before I decide if he really needs a vote or not. I already stated that be was number 1 on my scum list and for now, he still is, but I also think its possible that he could just genuinely be a disillusional townie who is caught up in confirmation bias.

Your recent posts are making me lest suspicious of you, and you seem to be genuinely devoted to helping the town for now... but I'm not completely ruling you out as possible scum either.

[Brandi]

woops, forgot to put the quote box around that first paragraph... sorry

[Brandi]

Based on Brandi's recent posts (134 being a prime example), I think she needs to calm down.

I guess I was a bit out of line with the over use of caps lock, and blatant sarcasm. But I was just trying to make a point that I guess no one got. (Seeing as how being civil and putting logic behind my opinions wasn't proving very effective since no one cared to respond at that point.) I just find it really annoying that everyone seems to think that its ok to keep information and opinions to themselves. (Or at least, no one else has addressed this point.) As far as everything I've read in the wiki, hiding information as well as proclaiming that you are hiding information DOES NOTHING GOOD for the town... and I think its just plain ridiculous that someone would say that questioning another person's reasonings for their opinions when it isn't very apparent is role fishing. EVEN IF THE REASON has to do with a role, its not like everyone is going to assume or know that it does in fact have something to do with a case such as that.

Thats like condemning someone for asking for answers on the basis that they should some how already know the answer even if the answer is just something that another person just randomly thought up in their head. "You shouldn't have asked me that question because the answer is something that will screw you and everyone else over big time! YOU MUST BE GUILTY OF SOMETHING!"

Theres just 0 logic in that. Not to MENTION said 'information' in this case is really just an opinion for now.

I do know what Armlx was getting at in his opinion towards Mike-zim, but if he didn't want anyone to know his reasonings, he should have never told every one that he didn't want to GIVE reasonings. Mike hadn't had any serious attention on him whatsoever at that point, it was pretty pointless and anti-productive towards his supposed goals as a townie to rigorously defend him so early on.

Actually, a lot of people think dice voting is useless. As it's provably random, there's no way anyone could actually feel pressured by it, which decreases the worth of the random vote substantially.

I know this. I was pointing out that not every random vote can be analyzed. Technically though, if someones dice pointed towards someone who already had 2 votes on them, then voting for them regardless of what the dice said could appear as scummy and could be questioned. Someone might ask why they didn't just roll again so they could vote for someone with less votes on them. Also the fact that someone is using a dice could also gather a bit of suspicion. It might make a person look as if they are just trying to keep from being questioned completely.


Also I'm a bit confused as to why Mike is number 2 on your list. He may have not been posting today, but I don't think that means hes been lurking....

but every time I sleep there are a million new posts when I wake up

Isn't that exciting though? I feel pretty excited myself whenever I awaken to see this game has a bunch of new comments that I haven't read yet. Its like getting a handful of candy that you've never tasted before. =)

Oh, wow, I just got it.

Bazza = scum
Caf = partner.

Notice how he just slips in caf and is trying to find reasons why. Pre-emptive bus / distance much?

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

[Brandi]

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

What?

Wikipedia: Argument from Ignorance

[Brandi]

Also, dear God Armlx, how many games are you in? How can your mind not explode from being in more than 4 at a time? You must really love mafia *___*

[Brandi]

The fact that bazza had no evidence on his suspicions towards Caf is not any reason to believe that there should be a suspicion on him.

No one had really said anything against Caf until now, and at the rate bazza has been throwing out suspicions I'd say that thats even less of a case.

But yes, Bazza's list does appear to be OMGUS.

[Brandi]

Man, you two sure have been arguing, Ill have to look over all this, armlx and bazza are both seemingly very head strong... x.x

Also I would like Angel mouse to post too as she said shed post more thoughts the other day but didn't. Granted I know she 'has a life.'

I don't think that she hasn't been posting is a reason to pair her with bazza, but when she actually posts her opinions that might potentially change that...

[Brandi]

point noted armlx, I'm reading now, though I feel like I'm falling asleep so I may not post right away... x.x

[Brandi]

Dear God, what the heck. This kind of arguing was unneeded. Bazza, you should have just gone to bed instead of stubbornly stayed awake to argue. Once you got some nutrients and fluids and ENERGY maybe it would be easier for you to THINK OUT your posts before posting them.

Reading through this, this morning, this is how my mind was going:

shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up! shut up!

and

2. Lol at Baz nonetheless as he's clearly not thought about this.

QFT.

Right now I'm not 100% if Bazza is desperate scum or desperate townie... But man its a bit disappointing to see all that arguing and not a word from Mike, AM, or Q-man....

One thing I find interesting though, is that if Bazza was really just desperate scum, considering his other crappy tactics, you'd think he'd do something crazy like false claim a power-role. But you never know, its not like that happens all of the time.. He did already claim townie anyway. *shrugs*

This is going to be annoying to analyze *huff*... I'm gonna make breakfast first...

[Brandi]

How can you tell us that you're giving up and then tell us you hope we don't mislynch?

Is this really a post of yours to tell us you are giving up, or a post to try to get us to not lynch you?

You know you aren't even at L-1 yet...

And I was saying that scenario about claiming a power role would only be plausible if you were scum, which you might or might not be.

And why did you ask for a best newbie award if you said that you are really an experienced player?

[Brandi]

heh. Well you could have just changed around your post before your posted it =P

[Brandi]

Q-man posted a lot yesterday, but, meh. He could have just done a read through and post all of his final thoughts into ONE post... I don't know why he had to cut it up into pieces like that. Angel Mouse, she barely touched on anything.... I don't like how they stay gone long enough not to get prodded but just enough to miss all of the action

Votecount:

Bazza [3] (Armlx, Darox, Qman)
Armlx [1] (Bazza)
Darox [1] (Clammy)

Not Voting [3] (Darox, Brandi, caf19, Angelmouse)

If anyone needs a prod, feel free to ask.

[Brandi]

@Brandi, you guys (Without me!!) are putting up over a page a day on average, as much as I wish I had the free time every day to keep up I don't rigfht now. I'm both sick, and am busy gettting my wedding details finalized. Busy I am.

While getting itchy that i have posted in the last 2 days while understandable, is also a little annoying for me, I'm not trying to not post but you people are post machines.

It also is part of why i multi post alot. that and alt tabbing with notepad is just aggravating. but if you wish me to do bigger posts, in a lesser number i can do that. my quick posts and the sheer number comes as i catch up in games.


Reading through.

Its fine Q-man. Do whatever feels best for you, I don't want you to change around your posting style cause of MY preferences. XP I'm glad you are here though. And yah I guess 'we' may be posting machines =P

[Brandi]

@Bazza, there's no need to be a jerk. These games shouldn't be taken on a personal level. I know that you are frustrated, but using someones lack of experience as an insult doesn't make you look any better. This is after all, just a game. If everyone is wrong about it and you are town, well your death doesn't mean you lose. Just support the town like a townie should. Arguing and putting everyone down isn't going to make you more pro-town, it is just going to make everyone want to lynch you regardless... Because anti-town I think is almost as bad as scum, and arguments like this that are just the same thing over and over will just make us get... no where. Try to calm yourself a bit maybe... and I'm not trying to be mean, or attack you, but the more you post the more scummy you look to me, despite your appeals. Not to mention that your negative attitude just doesn't help. *sigh* This is supposed to be fun. =(

[Brandi]

I'm sorry to hear that Angelmouse. I hope things get fixed up for you soon!

Also, 'certain player' or 'certain players' ?

Hopefully it's the latter. Cause I definitely would like to hear what you have to say about everyone! ;P

[Brandi]

Darox, in my opinion, he is either scum, or VI. Honestly I'm leaning towards the latter. I'm not trying to be mean with that statement, but I think he is so SURE of himself that he doesn't see how many mistakes he is making or how he is hindering the town. I support the bazza-lynch, but I'd still rather hear from Angel mouse before things move on. Even if it IS pretty obvious Bazza is getting the axe regardless of what she has to say. Unless of course, she says something that incriminates herself more than bazza has, which is highly doubtful.

[Brandi]

Have fun! (I think)

[Brandi]

Sounds more like a proclamation of a superiority complex to me Bazza. =P

[Brandi]

No normal town member ever false role claims anyway. O_o Thats generally a tactic only used by scum. Townies never need to lie

[Brandi]

You make me want to draw a hamster.... and tonight? What time zone are you in Qman?

[Brandi]

EST here. Alright, It must be good because its been a while!

[Brandi]

Well, its not as if you are the only one we are waiting on. I am excited to see what you have cooked up though!

[Brandi]

Well evaluated so far Qman. I strongly agree with everything you have stated. You've also made me consider doing something, that is, printing out games and witting notes on them... thats brilliant.. I guess older players are more likely to do stuff like that... heh.

On an off topic note, I hope your wife-to-be's Birthday is fun for you both! It must be awesome to know that you're going to be married. I get excited every time I hear about marriage...

[Brandi]

Bazza I don't think it is a matter of whether or not armlx really is scum, or whether or not you really are town. While you may be CORRECT in the things you are assuming, what they are saying is that you are presenting the arguments badly, in such a way where you can't be taken seriously.... Being honest doesn't mean you are playing well. YOU know your alignment, but none of us can be SURE until you are dead... =/

[Brandi]

Hey guys! I haven't forgotten about you all, I really do care about this game, but I've been in the hospital a lot and my internet got disconected. I am currently at the library at my mothers college, perhaps I can keep comming here with my mom until she turns the net back on at home. I'm hoping that I wont need to be replaced, I'd really like to make it through a game! >.<

I'm going to try to muster up some some-what decent post in the short time I am here. Also welcome Darla.

[Brandi]

@ Brandi: I think you need to clarify your position on the Bazza lynch, especially as the end of the day may not be that far away now.

Well, it is my gut feeling that Bazza is not scum. In fact I'd be really surprized if he did turn up as scum if he were lynched. I can't give any valid proof as to why, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the town disagrees with me, so I doubt my opinion of him will prevent him from being lynched. I DO honestly believe that his incesent ramblings have seriously been hindering the town though. IMO, a VI does nothing but make it harder for the rest of the town to win and completely puts them off towards scum hunting... I suppose I do not have that much experience... at all... But when Armlx and Bazza were fighting, I didn't even feel like analyzing anything or working towards making meaningful posts because there was nothing to work with but the same arguments going around and around in circles. I got kind of excited when I thought Angelmouse was going to be making her analysis soon, but that never really happened, and the whole thing was just really leaving me dismayed.

I really don't know what to say to Darla other than I find it a bit odd she didn't list ANY reasons why she found me scummy. I'm sure she just hasn't had the time to post them yet. I wish I had more time to address other points of conversation, but I don't. I really hope I get my internet back soon. If I have to get replaced then I'll be watching when I can, and, go town!

[Brandi]

Hi guys! I'm at the library again. From the recent posts I can say my feelings towards the thought of armlx being scum are diminishing.

I do not think that Clammy was starting a new wagon, he had been on Darox's case before, but everyone was so caught up in the bazza-debate that it looked as if he was trying to derail a current wagon. But what is so wrong with that anyway? If someone else appears to be more scummy, then they should get votes, correct?

Also, Darox. It IS my personal opinion that games are BETTER OFF without VI's. BUT I do not think Bazza is scum, and I will not be voting for him. Its not so much that I think he SHOULD die as much as I think that if he DID, it wouldn't be any sort of great loss, and perhaps it might actually be EASIER for us to focus.


Darla, I'm confused. Sure, it may be common to list supposed scum partners, but why give reasons for one and not the other? If you don't have reasons then are you just picking out a partner from thin air? If that isn't the case then, why conceal your suspicions?

Currently I'm becomming more nuetral towards Caf, earlier I felt he was the most pro-town, but I'm not seeing that as much as of late.

Qman, I really like his posts, but I wish he'd post more often.

Darox I also feel nuetral towards. Cammy has been presenting a very decent case towards him but I feel that what he is implying may not be what Darox's actual mind-set is reflecting.

This is all the thoughts I can put into text for now. I apologize if my game activity and such like that isn't up to par... theres been a lot of issues. Apparantly though, I'm not supposed to talk about it due to confidentiality reasons. I'll read through again though... and if I find anything worth bringing up I will if I have time. (Library closes in an hour)


See ya~

[Brandi]

True, Bazza. I don't. And I find that frustrating. I didn't think it'd be so difficult but I guess it IS still day 1. I wanted to print out the game here at the library but that costs money, which I dont have. I was going to take it home and take notes and try to really put my mind to it. Maybe if my mom comes back when she finishes taking her test, she can give the librarian a few dimes so I can do that.

Also, IMO, Armlx has been acting, in general, more pro-town. And... her? Who? You seem to get gender confused a lot ...

[Brandi]

OMGOMGOMG. Its Mister Flaaaaaaaaaaaay. Woo!!! Hey guys, I've got the weekend and Monday before I have to go to Florida. I really hate Florida, I don't want to go. Then after that I go to Texas. I'm HOPING my dad will have internet. I feel really bad being gone long periods then coming in and saying nothing really that helpful... but I think it would be even worse for me to go about asking for a replacement. So I'm going to be working on a post, which I may not finish tonight because I have to get off the computer at Midnight. >.<;

[Brandi]

Geez Bazza. I feel like I'm reading a novel when I read through your posts. Ok ok, I'm focusing, I'm going to post soon >.<;

[Brandi]

Also, Bazza, another thing that seriously bugs me about your posts is that I don't think you read over what you type. You go on to talk about one player when really in your head you mean another, and you swap genders. I think it would be a bit more helpful for you to do a few re-reads before you hit the submit button. Every time I come across your posts I feel like I have to decode something. Maybe I'm just really easily confused, but taking time to know who and what you are referring to might be a bit helpful to everyone...

[Brandi]

Oh, I see I made it in time for Q-man.

[Brandi]

Something with armlx having multiple votes on him. Ugh. I finally got my printer working. I'm too tired to sit at the computer and type out notes, so I'm using all my ink and paper to printer friendly all this stuff out and take notes .... T_T I feel as though the mod will kill me if I don't attempt to post something meaningful soon. I'm such a procrastinator. XP

[Brandi]

As these papers pile up, more and more I feel like this was a bad idea. But I definitely feel like I need to do some deep back tracking. So that's what I'm going to do. Darox, for the record, you ARE a male right? Bazza keeps making me think you are a female... but I'm totally not sure anymore.

[Brandi]

I feel that Darla's last post was a bit scummy. She seems to be coming up with the idea that a persons style is an excuse to not bring any suspicion onto them. IMO, regardless of style, there are still some things that people can do and say that are just down right scummy, and Armlx has had his share of scummy actions. It also feels that perhaps shes a bit too keen on defending Armlx. Let's not forget that DBE was originally 'mike' and how quick Armlx was to defend him for speculation reasonings that should have never been insinuated. I have a feeling, a possible very lightweight feeling, that DBE/Armlx COULD be a scum pair. I'm still working on that more in depth analysis, its just taking longer than I expected and I keep going off an on to it. I know that tomorrow will probably be my last chance before I have to go to FL.

[Brandi]

Ive got a ton of notes and none of them are organized. From what I've been gathering from looking back, armlx is completely the most scummy, despite him seeming more pro-town within the last couple of pages and I've also been noticng a few things I didn't really pick up on before. As far as I'm concerned if he is lynched and doesn't turn up scum, I'll be completely surprised. I'll be working on my notes while I'm on my way to Florida. I'm very much doubting the chance for internet there, but anything is possible I suppose. I apologize for all the little inconveniences I cause ;[

[Brandi]

So its up to me then, yes? I would think that it would be best for ARMLX to claim. However I doubt his claim will sway my certainty of his scumminess. I do not have my notes with me at the moment.... I've spent hours side-noting and highlighting things and now I feel as though its all going to go to waste because I seriously do not have the time to back track at get to my points without the plethora of notes that I Have back at my aunts house. I'm at a friend of my aunts house in Florida atm, about to leave, the only internet connection Il have access to (DIAL UP) and I probably wont have it again until maybe 3 days from now before I take off for Texas to go live with my dad. Ill be on here for a few more minutes. I'm pondering on whether or not I should wait a few days or hammer now.

[Brandi]

Well it looks like I have to go now. =/ Sorry if seeing my name on the latest posted gave you false hopes, but I just don't feel right voting yet without getting what I need to say out... Happy 4th to you all folks~

[Brandi]

Darla, the deadline for a kill was 9PM EST, and I wasn't even home from Florida till midnight. Even if I WERE Mafia, someone else would have had to send in the kill, not me, because I wasn't present. In fact, nights are generally extended to prevent any sort of assumptions like that right there Darla. If you see someone browsing the sight the moment a game gets re-opened for the next day, then someone could easily assume that that person browsing the sight was the person who sent in a kill. I'm actually pretty surprised armlx was killed. When I was reading through, I pretty much assumed the doc claim had to be fake, as in, armlx was just trying to avoid being lynched and someone else would turn up dead the next morning.

However, Mr.Flay. You were very quick to hammer Bazza weren't you? You didn't even wait for a reaction from the majority to his claim. That seems pretty scummy to me.

FOS:Mr.Flay

Just because you are a very experienced and loved player doesn't mean I don't think for a second that you might not be scum! You've been pretty pro-townie appearing up until now. I don't understand why you would do something like that. =/

Also, Darla, what do you mean looking into Bazza? He's

dead

and DIDN'T turn up scum.

[Brandi]

Oh Qman beat me to it.

[Brandi]

Alright Qman and FLay. I suppose there are valid reasonings for it. *sigh* But its hard to get much information at all out of their deaths because like Caf already said, the people they suspected the MOST were each other and both of their suspicions were incorrect. I was pretty sure that Bazza would turn up town, like Mister Flay said... he was 'too scummy' to be scum. Which I totally agreed on. He seemed to suspect pretty much EVERYONE at least once.

Just goes to show how townies shouldn't act suspiciously heh

I'm not sure if some people can help it Caf. I know that I took 80% of the things armlx said in this game really negatively. Perhaps it was more so his attitude that put me off rather than whether or not the things he said were actually scummy. I still can't believe he's not scum though. Especially after that bit with Mike/Darla. Perhaps his early 'suspicions' of Mike/Darla are as wrong as his suspicions towards Bazza.

dude I knew saying that was a bad idea xD

If you knew it was a bad idea, and an invalid reason for suspicion, then why on earth would you do such at all? Obviously if you've seen that 'tactic' used before you've seen how people responded to it, correct? Perhaps in a lot of newbie games others might take it as a legitimate means of suspicion, but I don't believe any of the really advanced players would take it into consideration. It seems like Caf may be correct.. you could be just 'fabricating a case.'

Not much I can say right now, Bazza played poorly and obviously I wasn't the only one on his wagon.

But you were the only one who didn't really give any serious analysis or reasonings towards your suspicions on him. Other than he was 'acting panicked and hostile.' Which actually isn't always scummy. Sometimes townies can be 'panicked and hostile' and I wouldn't see why those reasons alone would be enough for someone to want to lynch someone. Obviously there were other reasons out there, but none that you pointed out specifically.

Anyways.. Off topic. I'm getting on a plane for the first time today... I'm kind of scared but it's only a 2-3 hour flight. Nothing bad can happen... I hope. Any chance I get for internet I'll be sure to use it on you guys. <3

[Brandi]

I honestly don't believe you are presenting much of a case against Clammy.
You were just as wrong about Bazza as bazza was wrong about armlx, Darox. Also, a good amount of the arguments that Clammy has presented have seemed to be very much far from 'nonsense' reasoning. The 'birthday' bit I'm sure wasn't serious at all. He never hopped off of your case, by the way. As far as I can see, his vote and his suspicions have been majorly aimed towards you for quite a while. He has had some suspicions towards armlx and bazza, but hey, there are TWO scum out there, right? I'm not saying I'm 100% on Clammy being town, but nothing you've mentioned points to any tells.

Using my dads laptop w/ WIFI @ a motel 6 by the way. Fun times. I'm not really supposed to be using it ;P

[Brandi]

Just checking in... also noting that I have no 'permanent' internet connection. Nothings really being said.. seems like everyone is having their V/LA. Which is understandable because it

is

the summer after all.

[Brandi]

Regardless I can't believe you used this:

This however means we may need to compromise. Armlx is likewise not my preferred lynch, but i'd much rather he go over Baz. [I mean, if nothing else the guy shares a birthday with me, obvscum!]

unvote; vote: armlx.

as part of your evidence towards Clammy. OBVSCUM was OBVJOKE and are OBV making a crap case against him. So now that your previous reasonings have been proven inaccurate, you still say that he looks suspicious. Still waiting for something you've said against clammy to make sense.

I totally agree with Clammy, this 'case' you have against him is purely OMGUS driven. It seems Darox merits some major looking into.

FOS

at you for now. I will probably vote later.

[Brandi]

Currently looking through the thread again from D1. I wish I had my notes with me from last week. I remember I highlighted a few significant things and I'm having trouble finding them again. I hope I have time for another post T_T

[Brandi]

Looking back.... in the very beginning. One specific thing I don't like:

Bazza and Qman still AWOL.

Unvote, Vote: Qman

Lets get this

bandwagon

rolling, maybe we might hear something from him.

and then a few posts later...

Wrong play, let the mod sort it out in the case of people who just aren't posting unless they are active elsewhere on the site.

I had no intention of getting Qman

even as far as -2

, I wanted to see if I could get a rise out of him and spark some discussion.

If you had no intention of getting him to 'even as fat as -2', then why blatantly state that you wanted a 'bandwagon'? Wanting bandwagons that early for something as trivial as being a tad bit inactive seems very fishy...

I can't believe this was overlooked.

Reading over in general, there seem to be some major inconsistencies in Darox's level of towniness. At some points he seems very pro town, and at others he seems really scummy. The point of his so called suspicions against clammy is another major point of scuminess. It feels like he is just trying to muster up a new easy lynch target for D2... which it looks like he's been subtly trying to do since D1.

VOTE: Darox

[Brandi]

How can you use bazzas being a liability to the town as an excuse when you yourself got onto everyone else who stated that they wanted him to die for that same reason? The vacation vote? ok. Almost all of us are on VA. You were not at L-1 for very long. Clammy unvoted you after DARLA had quickly and conveniently placed a 3rd vote on you. Which I tried to comment on MUCH earler but my phone wigged out and erased my post before I was done. (Yes, I am currently posting from my cell phone.) In anycase NO, you never cleared up that which I pointed out when you wanted to bandwagon Qman. You said you wanted a BANDWAGON. That implies you did want it to go to, if not further than L-2. Also, expressing PURPOSEFULLY invalid suspicions is what causes you to gain suspicion from the Town. However, after Darla posted it was clear that she was bandwagon hopping, and like I said and to you surprize, put you at L-1 without thinking about it. Qman pointed out some notable tells by Darla, and Caf was definitely correct in stating that miss blueeyes merrited more attention today than you. That being said,

Unvote:Darox

Darla got some 'splainen to do.

[Brandi]

Wow. My phone finally came through for me. Thank God I dont have to type all that out again ._.

[Brandi]

I have been trying to post but my phone has been acting mean... maybe it will let THIS msg go through...

[Brandi]

Perhaps Im not completely up to par with my mafia terminology...sorry Darox. PS: Bring back the dancing Hobbes!

[Brandi]

Let me get this straight, you think im scum yet you were willing to lynch Darox after I voiced my suspicions and voted for him? Sorry Darla I dont buy it. I also really disagree with, "Im not a power role so I dont feel like participating." But I dont believe your claim so maybe thats not how you really feel.

[Brandi]

Man. I have been constantly trying to type out that... while using my cell phone a lot of the time it just doesn't send my messages. So I spend like an hour typing a few paragraphs and its all gone. Sorry if it looks like I've been 'lurking.' I've really just been trying to make posts... stating exactly this and lots of other things too...

[Brandi]

No today, I have my internet back. Yes all my recent posts have been with my phone. I just got back from TX and am back in NC and I currently haven't slept for 48 hours. You have no idea how frustrated I have been in Texas in the moments I have had riding in the car with my dad when I flip out my cell phone and do my best to see whats been up with this game and end up not being able to do anything. I also got kicked by a horse today and nearly broke my leg right before I went to see the dark knight for the first time. But that is also irrelevant. I just wouldn't want you to think I'm spending all my time not caring about my mafia game. So, Stalling? Nah. But I guess it could seem that way. I'm speaking not really in terms of the game but in regards to my 'inactivity,' in the game. I didn't know that limited access or rather, difficult access was a part of a means of suspicion. You can accuse me of being scum, just don't accuse me of not being dedicated.

[Brandi]

I agree, it is pretty annoying. What's also annoying is how Darox keeps claiming things to be annoying as if hes trying to use his peeves as valid suspicions. He does that a lot. Anyway, I'll post something content worthy after I've gotten some sleep. My boyfriend is going to kill me cause I told him a few minutes ago I was going to bed, cause he knows I need it.

[Brandi]

Ok so first of all I'd like to post my Town/Scum list:

1st most Town - Qman
2nd most Town - Clammy
Nuetral - Mr.Flay
Nuetral - Caf19
Scummy/anti-town - DarlaBlueEyes
Most likely to be scum - Darox

I'd like to refer back to one of Qmans posts here:

The second post (and this really is deep fried in WIFOM) is my personal view when I play scum. I prefer to do the unexpected, and in that situation I would have left armlx alive. He probably wouldn't be *too* hard to get mislynched. It would definitely have discredited him. I work really hard not to be predictable on my NK's as scum.

Qman says he does the unexpected when hes scum, but in actuality I think that the unexpected in which she refers to would have actually been the smart thing to do. If armlx would have lived passed N1 and there still was a NK, scum would have gotten a free lynch out of armlx AND another NK just like that. Seriously, if a claimed Doctor lives while theres no time for a counter claim, theres no way everyone ISN'T going to be on his tail. I also realize what armlx was doing on D1, and it totally makes sense despite the fact that its a bit crazy. I'm sure all of you get the REAL reasons for his strange D1 behavior and how it correlates to him being a doctor. Anyway, my point is, and this is completely WIFOM, but its my personal opinion that whoever is scum or whoever sent in the NK choice hardly gave it any thought at all. I don't think the experienced players would have NKed armlx. So this is one reason why I think that Qman, Clammy, or Mr.Flay most likely are not the scum. Though, I have other major reasons as to why I believe Qman and Clammy to both be completely pro-town. Mr. Flay I am not as sure of....


Anyway, I'd like to add in what I think is some very common sense. The bazza-wagon was MOST DEFINITELY a scum driven wagon. Think about it, The SCUM knew he was innocent. All they had to do was keep pushing bazza and the town would eventually tear him to shreds. Armlx was the one who was pushing the most IMO, but Darox I would say was probably the second most stuck towards lynching him. Clammy was also on Bazza for a while, but he pulled off, and was still mainly interested in Darox. DBE, just kept chiming in with her willingness to lynch him. Mr.Flay is the one that hammered, but after thinking about it, I know that he did it for a very good reason. As for Caf19, well, I'm not so sure. I get a lot of mixed feelings when I read some of his posts. If he turned up scum I wouldn't be TOO surprised, but it would still be a surprise. I've been trying to get an analysis on him and while he seems pretty pro-town my gut tells me I'm probably missing something.

Anyway, even though I've been really keen on lynching Darla for a while, I really feel that Darox would be a better choice. So,

Vote: Darox

Also from your last post Darla, I certainly HOPE that doesn't mean you

want

to be replaced. That would be much much much too difficult to do. I mean we already had to get Mister Flay in here. And if you don't want this game to be slow you can post more. ^^

[Brandi]

End of D1, looking off because I am suspicious of you, perhaps? ;P

[Brandi]

Also, has Brandi claimed? should she?

Nope, she sure hasn't! =P I don't really see any reason as to why I

should

, but I have no reasoning as to why I

shouldn't

either.

Who has no votes? Do you mean she isn't voting for anyone? Or are you not talking about Darla at all Clammy? I'm confused. =(

Vote count soon, hopefully... <_<

[Brandi]

Actually nevermind, instead of being lazy I'll do it myself. Pretty much forgot the last vote count was like, a page ago.

Darla [3] (Caf19, Qman, Darox)
Darox [3] (Darla, Clammy, Brandi)

Not Voting [1] (Mr. Flay)

[Brandi]

Darox, I don't know what I'll do either way.

Some reason I get the impression that the only actual reason she is suspicious of me is because I am a girl. Or at least thats how it seemed to come off.

If she turns up scum thats a relief for me, because that means there is only one more scum to find. If she turns up town, well... I don't know. I definitely am not going to promise to eat my ear off. Especially since I think you (Darox) are more likely to be scum than her. So far I find Darla's lack of interest a large bit detrimental to the town. If she were more committed to helping the town maybe things would be easier.

I don't remember why Mr.Flay was suspicious of Qman.... Mr.Flay why are/were you suspicious of Qman?

[Brandi]

Oh I read that wrong, you asked if YOU flipped town, not if Darla flipped town.

If you flipped town.. thats a joke right? <_< I SRSLY don't know. I'll have to think about that one =P

[Brandi]

Hmm. Update. I believe Darla is town now. Still totally believe Darox is scum. Also I have no idea where Qman is going with his latest posts. Very confusing, no idea what point hes trying to make. Seems really off to me. He lists a ton of people, makes me think he really doesn't know what to think. Still think hes town, just not at the top of his game.

I don't get it clammy, why are you voting for Caf? He hasn't been here and you havent expressed any old or new suspicions towards him. Are you just taking shots in the dark because you can't trust your own scum hunting abilities?

Interesting thing, that Post subject: 687:

OMG IF DARLA IS TOWN THAT MEANS IM DEFINITELY GOING TO INSTANTLY DIE TOMORROW!!! I CANT DIE IN LYLO, ILL LOSE! EVERYONE UNVOTE ME AND HER GOGOGO. U KANT LET ME GET LYNCHDED. IT R BAD. CUZ I AM SCUM.

Darox it totally scum. Hes taking advantage of the fact that we aren't so sure of ourselves anymore.

Unvote, Vote:Darox

(Just a reminder.)

You can't fool me Darox with your mind games. DIEDIEDIE.

[Brandi]

Qman, I didn't address your vote on me because I don't understand it. That is all. I said your posts weren't making sense. That wasn't enough of a response for you? =P

Brandi believes Darla is town now, unvotes Darox and revotes Darox ...for emphasis?

Um... Thats something armlx did very early on in the game and I just thought I'd copy him cuz it seemed cool. <_<

This really isn't attractive from a pro-town player. Just sayin.

Whats wrong with being aggressive towards scum? Are you saying attacking scum is a bad thing? Or are you saying we should hold hands with the scum and frolic through the flowers?

The informed minority tends to take a few shots in the dark no matter what.. and why do you seem to have a problem with us pressuring him?

Like, in the BEGINNING OF THE GAME maybe? Not when there are like 28 pages of stuff to go on.

her continuous flip-flopping on DBE makes my eyelid twitch.

whats wrong with that? =P I really thought she was scum and now I think shes a female bazza that doesn't argue as much.

I loved the way you edited my words by the way.

Thanks. Nothing personal, I just totally believe you are scum. I didn't really edit them, more so put into words what I believed your thoughts to be at that moment.

As i said, a little is cold feet and distrust of myself, but don't confuse that for a nill-case on caf, it's just being held close to my chest for now. I'm also far more convinced of Darox-scum, as you say you are too, so consider him with a pseudo-vote on him still if you like.

Sorry if my last comment towards you seemed sort of mean there Clammy. I'm not questioning how good of a player you are. Its just, it feels to me like you were almost giving up... and you're the person I have the most faith in, in this game. Hello, I'm totally a newbie. You're experienced, If you look like you're giving up, how does that look to me? I thought we were finally gonna catch some scum and not end up in freaking Lylo. But now everything has instantly changed. =( We're not lynching Darox? (according to the rest of the town.) fine. Perhaps we can stumble upon the other scum by the end of D2. It doesn't seem to me like that is gonna happen though. =/

[Brandi]

=( dont use big mean red letters on me. TT_______TT

I already said if we are moving onto someone else, fine. Geez. You don't have to yell at me

[Brandi]

I mean yah, you're right blahblahblah. You can make your point without being mean! ;_;

[Brandi]

I'm sorry for being retarded. I don't want to turn into bazza. =/ I'll post more when my mind is cleared up instead of getting upset at everyone who doesn't agree with me or tries to push common sense down my throat. SorrySorrySorry.

[Brandi]

I don't understand the sudden desire to pressure caf.

Me either. :B

Wait Darox, I'm your top suspect but you don't have anything on caf and it worries you so you are voting for him ... because you have nothing on him... what?

Caf prod plz?

I miss him.

[Brandi]

Yah but I don't understand. It sounds like you are voting for Caf because you are suspicious of me. O_o And, Enigma != suspicious IMO.

[Brandi]

I don't think Qman is even suspicious of you Caf. But welcome back. clammy, Caf is a he~

[Brandi]

Hmm. Darla and Darox, both back at L-1 again. I have a feeling that when Darla gets lynched she will show up town.. =/

[Brandi]

You're wrong Darox. You could easily enough get me to L-1 or even maybe lynched. I am your preferred target, right? Qman I think would rather have me dead than Darla too. So, if you kept your vote on me, maybe Mr.Flay would decide he'd rather have me lynched as well. Then Darla would come in with her 'gut feelings' and lynch me. (possibly) ;P But maybe you aren't going with preferred targets, maybe you just want to lynch whoever seems the easiest. Darla isn't the only choice, and picking her because you feel the town has decided she is the only one who could possibly die today seems a bit...odd. Not trying to get myself lynched, just saying.

Qman still hasn't given any actual reasoning as to why he thinks Im scum. Just the fact that he doesn't like the things that I say and that I referred to him as she... (which I don't think I did) I still have no idea why hes voting for me. =P

[Brandi]

Flameaxe doesn't write lynch scenes. (Or at least he didn't write one for Armlx....)

[Brandi]

whats with the ORLY? Thats the same feeling I had about bazza before he got lynched. :B

Qman, what does "Hope I don't pull W." mean?

[Brandi]

You keep saying that you dislike my posts, yet you don't point to any reasons why or if you can find any specific scum tells, etc. I could go around pointing out every post that I dislike, but where would that get me if that was all I did? Maybe you're just really irritated that I called you a she. I am sorry for that. I always get gender mix-matched and I'm constantly having to read over the stuff I type more than I should because of such. ;P

Anyway, if 'I don't like this' is a good enough reason for you to think someone is scum, more power to ya. Maybe its just those wedding jitters that are causing you to go crazy and out of character, so I'll let it slide for now.

Though I'm pretty sure Darox is safe,

unvote

for now. Perhaps my main deal with Darox really is one of those 'gut feeling' things. However, Does anyone have an actual CASE on ANYONE? I think some information needs to be brought out in the open so we can all get our heads clear, and know what we're doing. I guess when I get time I'll back track and try to re-analyze everything. [30 pages OMG... >.<;]

[Brandi]

Way to do some major misrepresentation. I never said anything about being a cop Darla, that was Mister Flay. Seriously, do you read ANYTHING at all? Are you even TRYING to pay attention to this game? And yes I do assume it will be you. Unless something drastically changes. You are at L-1 atm, or have you forgotten?

Also Clammy, hell no it wasn't because of mister flay. I do still think Darox is scum. But I feel like we are a bunch of chickens with our heads off because I don't think any of us know what we're doing. So I want to hold off on my vote until I can look back and maybe re-analyze everyone. I have 0 faith in myself right now. I just don't want to make mistakes and be so sure about someone and be completely wrong.

if that be what the consensus were

In other words, you're a bandwagon hopper and you just follow around with what everyone else is doing because you don't think for yourself. Thats basically your point.

I feel like Darla is toying with me. Deep down I want to believe she is town, but she keeps acting so scummy. I said it before and I'll say it again, I feel like shes a female bazza. Really scummy but actually town.

Also, now I'm considering Qman as potential scum. He votes me, but gives no real reasoning why. When I question his reasoning, he ignores me. It makes me think hes just hitting towards the easy targets. I'm the only one he has voted with no actual reasoning behind it, and it makes me think. I considered it in the back of my mind that Qman could be scum on D1, but there wasn't anything vastly pointing to such. Now it seems like he is slipping up.


blahblahblah I dont feel like editing this for mistakes. If I screw your gender up, then whatever.

[Brandi]

No, I never heavily implied it. Show me where I even lightly implied that I was a cop. Show me one thing. You cant can you? Because it was never even brought up until Flay said such. He wasn't even serious. I'm pretty sure he doesn't think I'm a cop. He was trying to make a POINT and YOU took it literally. All you do is just follow everyone else.

You know what, I was probably right before. Screw what I said about you not being scum. You've been scummy the WHOLE entire time and just because my gut tells me you are town shouldn't be why I'm holding off on you. I'm done playing nice with you. I think you should die. You haven't built any cases on ANYONE you WAGON hop and Im tired of being spineless like everyone else.

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Lets see what happens. (Yah you're all going to hate me, I don't care.)

[Brandi]

Sure DarlaScum. Though, we'll see who is really scum or not when the mod posts. Gender has nothing to do with what pisses me off by the way, it is ignorance that causes such. You're a nice girl... but if you play like scum, you get treated like scum. Sorry. BTW dead people don't talk.

[Brandi]

Whos lynch, hers or yours?

[Brandi]

Is it against the rules to msg the mod and tell him a game needs to be locked? Cause Flameaxe is on limited access who knows if he will check the game tonight =(

[Brandi]

Oh. Well I am still a newbie, I don't know everything. =P Then again YOU knew that and you are a newbie too... scumchat said "how the hell are we supposed to know" I was hoping it wasn't against the rules to ask them that either. <_< I'm just paranoid about breaking rules.

[Brandi]

IMO, I believe that killing Darox was a terrible idea. I kind of expected Clammy or Mr.Flay to die seeing as how they would probably be our only hopes in making it through Lylo. (Well, just my opinion, they are very intelligent, experienced, IC's ...) The mafia obviously didn't think their kill through properly. (On the other hand, killing me would have been utterly stupid)

Anyway Qman, I think the killing of Darox could be a way of not only setting me up, but maybe Clammy as well... seeing as how he was kind of headstrong against Darox as I was. Though Clammy was a bit more levelheaded about it though...

Then again, perhaps I'm making the mistake of labeling Clammy as town in my mind. I've been making the horrible mistake of being too sure of certain people this whole game.

Before D3 I slightly suspected Qman because I'm wondering. Would someone who is scum purposely kill someone to set someone up and then suggest it was a set up the next day? I don't know. I guess that kinda sounds like WIFOM. Ugh.

I guess this so far proves Bazza was completely wrong about Armlx and Darox. Though I'm not going to make fun of him for it because that would make me a hypocrite.

Heh, I have never been in Lylo before. (This is my first game that got past D1 even...) Ok I'll stop rambling now. I just felt like I had to say SOMETHING.

But hey, Where is Caf? I feel like he's not even apart of the game anymore. Is he even aware of what is going on now?

[Brandi]

Wait what?

"Bah"

Glad you brought back the Hobbes.

[Brandi]

Clammy, I wasn't asking Qman about Caf. I was asking in general. =P Also if you read later in my post you'll notice that I mentioned that:

"perhaps I'm making the mistake of labeling Clammy as town in my mind. I've been making the horrible mistake of being too sure of certain people this whole game. "

So nah, I don't know you're town. Actually you could be scum now that I think about it. You never brought up how Darox dying could be a set up against me until AFTER Qman mentioned it. Makes me think you were never going to mention it. ;P

I'm talking about THIS game mister Flay. THIS game is the one that is past Day 1, thats what I was saying O.o I dunno what you're asking me.

[Brandi]

ok, about to make a huge ass post very soon.

[Brandi]

^{So, I have done a re-read on all the surviving players.}

On my first re-read I noticed Clammy's attack of Darox on page 5. Now right here, this is not scummy of Clammy. He had legitimate reasonings for his attack. However, on page 5,

Qman

was very quick to hop on in attacking. This is a small sign of Qman following the crowd, but at that point it wasn't much of a tell.

On

Pre-Flay/Angelmouse

Early on... I notice her play is no where near as good as Mister Flay's. But her actions/posts themselves were very tunnel-visioned and irrational red herrings, to say the least. It seems she was trying to work her way into building some crap cases, but was never able to follow through because she had to be replaced.

Reading through, I get a a very town feel from Caf19, and a slight iffy feel from Clammy. But I have noticed that after re-reading the game, the scum pair is just blatantly obvious.

We'll start with when Mr.Flay comes into the picture:

20 pages read, no real notes, because I was going for the gestalt approach. Unfortunately it led me to the conclusion that bazza is Too Scummy To Be Scum (i.e. Village Idiot). EVERYONE suspects him, or has at some point; everyone. That never happens with actual scum on D1, short of a complete meltdown by the mafioso. Instead, what's likely going on here is that the scum are going for the easy kill, and Bazza is letting his frustration transform him into a giant green monster of overconfidence and rage. Which only makes him more of a target...rinse, repeat.

^{Mr.Flay announces his somewhat certainty of bazza being town here.}

Not exactly the same way, because there's no categorical imperative to act scummy, whereas there is one to act pro-town. Bazza's got no reason to act the way he is, regardless of alignment, which makes the extremity of his behavior sort of a null tell. Inconsistency and uselessness, sure, that's pretty decent reasons to lynch him, but his lashing out at everyone doesn't fit in my book.

^{Continues to note the certainty.}

Nice to see someone who isn't scared to stand out and give fresh opinions. Welcome Mr.Flay. I'm so glad someone else is seeing what i'm seeing.

Just because I'm not supporting your lynch, don't assume I'm on your side. You've said you're seeing a LOT of things, no one could agree with them all.

^{Here, he DIRECTLY states that he does not support his lynch.}

moving on for a moment...

***

P.S. Qman, despite being on my side on the armlx thing, this is scummy as hell:

Even if you are town, I feel the town is better off with you dead than alive, due to your play. This is normally an attitude I storngly disagree with, but you are proving the exception to the rule.

There are valid cases posted against you, regardless of if you think they are valid.

The only two people I'd vote for as things stand are Bazza and Armix. I have serious problems with Armix' early play which I'll dive into at a later point. I need to decide if I want do that today or tomorrow.

The sad part is, my instinct is telling me that I'd rather see Armix lynched today, but my head and reason tell me it should be you.

Feel like revisiting that discussion, now?

Gladly, I'll address this and my thoughts both now and then when i get the time later tonight.

^{Something is Fishy here. Mr.Flay states that the post is scummy, but does not specifically point out why. Perhaps an attempt to give QMAN a chance for an easy way out so that the scumminess of the post is not later brought up and pressured upon him more? Qman also seems really buddyish towards someone who just called him out. He doesn't even attempt to address it right away, just notes that he will address it later. Obviously he didn't have time to address it then. But why would he make a point that he would address it when he could just wait till later and address it when he was actually ready? Was it necessary? Maybe for someone who is worried they'd be further questioned by other individuals. Pretty much he put in a place holder in hopes that everyone knew that it didn't need to be further questioned.}

...I've also been rethinking my thought that we'd learn alot off his lynch. (referring to Bazza) We probably wouldn't learn much of anything, in fact, as everyone has just pushed the same track. ...

^{Its true, we didn't learn much. But Qman conveniently decided that this would be the case. Perhaps he knows that the people on his wagon were all town?}

Something worth noting***

When Mister Flay first comes into the picture, he builds a case on Caf, Darox, and lightly questions Armlx and Qman. Caf,Darox,Armlx, and Qman all respond to Mr.Flays accusations and he then responds again to everyone

except

Qman.



.....

Post subj# 567, Bazza insinuates that Armlx will claim a power role since he is at L-1.

If he was going to falseclaim, it would make sense to do it now while he's in hammering range. This gets a little WIFOM, but not claiming is actually a point in his favor.

If Brandi is scum and he claims Cop/Doc for example, a Mafia Goon can hammer with very little real consequence (it's a good trade for them, plus they learn the setup).

Unvote, pseudovote: armlx with the understanding that this is to prevent a 'quicklynch' only. I still intend to vote him once we hear from Brandi, but the risk is fairly great here.

<sup>Mr. Flay states that he is certain that he is going to hammer armlx.

After armlx claims doctor, Clammy states</sup>

Clearly it's a waste to hammer armlx tonight (unvote).

^{He is within understanding that this should be discussed, and says no more.}

Next post: Bazza claims to not be surprised about his claiming a power role. But its not like he could hammer him anyway, since his vote was already on him. Right?

...

Next post: BAM! Mr. Flay Hammers Bazza. Giving no warning, no reason, nothing. What made him change his mind so quickly about bazza? At that point he didn't even suspect bazza.

That's just silly, you have stated that you think i am townie, yet you are comfortable voting for me. I thought you said you'd stick with Armlx regardless of his claim, he is obviously lying. I thought you being an experienced player would realise this.

If you think i'm a townie then why are you voting for me? wouldn't it be better to stick with Armlx (which i thought Psuedo vote meant) or move to someone like Darox who is another Obv scum.

<sup>As much as I hate to say this, Bazza actually made sense. Sense in the fact that Flay DID intend to lynch Armlx.

Arlmx's claim obviously shook Flay. He didn't question it because he believed him. Why did he believe him?</sup>

Because he knew he was telling the truth.

^{post subject # 591 I question Flay.....}

However, Mr.Flay. You were very quick to hammer Bazza weren't you? You didn't even wait for a reaction from the majority to his claim. That seems pretty scummy to me.
FOS:Mr.Flay
Just because you are a very experienced and loved player doesn't mean I don't think for a second that you might not be scum! You've been pretty pro-townie appearing up until now. I don't understand why you would do something like that. =/

^{... and I should have stuck with it.}

^{Because of my gullible- ness, I took Qmans very very very Scummy response as an actual answer.}

I wasn't able to post during twilight, but I would have hammered bazza if Flay hadn't. Take that for what it is worth. I *really* wish the forums were set up for mobile posting, most of my reading is done on my Q9M.

A bit MORE wifom, I don't think Flay hammering was that bad, we had two viable options for a lynch and one claimed doc... but that could be colored by the fact that I would have hammered too.

^{A few posts later suspicion is brought upon Darla.
Now for what Mister Flay says next.}

I'm sure my hammer on Bazza looks weird, but the LAST thing we needed was to lose the claimed Doctor to a quicklynch. This way there was at least a WIFOM-chance that he could protect someone last night (if scum went for someone else, framing armlx for today as a living claimed Doctor).

Obviously it didn't go that way, and I'm happy to answer any questions about what I did. But after armlx's claim, ridding ourselves of the confusion of Bazza's distractionary tactics was the second best option IMO.

Right now I'm leaning toward Darla/Brandi, but I need a reread. Today and tomorrow are insane though...

There is only one thing that is seriously wrong with his answer here.

No one in their right mind would quicklynch a claimed DOCTOR.

Obviously HE

KNEW

that. If he had not quick lynched him, discussion over armlx's claim would have started. We NEEDED time to wait for a counter claim. Time to gather and analyze the reactions. Mr.Flay did NOT want us to gain ANY information through discussion. No townie would quick lynch Armlx, and scum would not either. WHY would scum QUICKLYNCH a claimed doctor when they can just

NIGHT KILL

HIM? Perhaps a second reasoning for the quick lynch is because he did not want his partner to fake claim.**** Most of all, when he stated that we didn't need to lynch a claimed doctor, WHAT MADE HIM SO SURE THAT ARMLX'S CLAIM WAS AN HONEST ONE WHEN THERE WAS NO FURTHER DISCUSSION AND HE WAS

SO INTENT ON LYNCHING HIM BEFORE?

BECAUSE he did not give time for a counterclaim BACKS UP my accusation that he KNEW he was telling the truth. HE KNEW ARMLX REALLY WAS THE DOCTOR.

Qman states here:

1.) Doc loss, totally expected given Armix' claim.

[...]

I really expected Armix to still be alive today, doc or not. He'd look REALLY bad if he didn't die..

1) He stated it was expected BECAUSE of his claim. This ALSO insinuates that Armlx claim was easy to believe with no questions asked.
2) He goes on to completely contradict himself.
3)Clammy points this out.
4)Qman responds completely with WIFOM, in hopes to get rid of any suspicion on him because of what he would do "if he was scum."
5) He states that "I work really hard not to be predictable on my NK's as scum."
If this is true, perhaps Qman is the scum that

did not

send in the Night Kill.


Then the Darla wagon soon begins to grow. This time, a townie is claimed. Flay says that he does not intend to suddenly hammer her. 'This time' Why? I'm sort of thinking he was

hoping for a power role.

My gut is telling me the scum two of darla/brandi/clammy... if darla flips town i'd probably focus mostly on the other two with a hard eye for caf as well.

3 person group.

It's a common scum tactic to give a list of 3 people and plug the partner in it as town. For some reason it's the list of THREE people that triggers that thought to me, as it's easier to hide a buddy up and tie in three than two or one...

...

Yes I know I just posted a list of three people I don't really like much, but for some reason I think those two things are different...

^{No, it isn't different. Its absolutely the same. But its flipped around here. I posted who I thought was probably town, you posted who you thought was probably scum. The thing is, my pointing towards my thoughts on TOWN players is not a scum tell. But you posting your thoughts on SCUM players IS a tell. You are putting 3 people out there for suspicion, to potentially branch off of later. I am not. Obviously I made a mistake in my town list though.}

Yeah but they also knew the armix wagon was on an innocent, and they both ended up at L-1. There really wasn't much risk for scum there.

The only person I'm comfortable with as town is Flay

. He hammered when (i feel) he had to yesterday, and hammered the only option that was there for a town player. The fact that he didn't hammer here speaks well of him as well. However it also makes the specter of a Flay/DBE scum pair float in the back of my head to be recalled at a later date should I need it. I’m not that sold on this idea but later on it’s worth keeping in mind.

^{This post is so scummy it hurts. It really really really hurts. At first I didn't understand, because in my mind I couldn't see you as scum. But now that I see Qman as scum, it makes total and complete sense. EVEN MORE SENSE in the idea of a Flay/Qman scum pair. I'm willing to bet everything that this time, I am not at all far off the mark.}

Post # 696 and 697 seem like Qman-Flay buddying.

Brandi, if you're a Cop, just claim already so that we can lynch Darox and end this day.

At first I highly considered this to be said in a facetious tone. But now that I've thought about it, I can see some obvious role fishing here.
Earlier in the game, Qman

suggested that he felt there was definitely a roleblocker that was 'not armlx'.

Flay quickhammered bazza, but not Darla. Because Darla's circumstance does not involve a power role.

The last peice of evidence against Q-man:

I kinda expected Darox to die, I didn't expect him to flip townie I thought he'd flip cop. Not really sure what to think about his death, it smells like a Brandi frame job.

<sup>He expected him to be a cop. What makes him so sure that there is a cop? If anything, the chances of there being a cop have seemed slim to none seeing as how we are IN LYLO and NO ONE has CLAIMED. If there WERE a cop it would make sense that there had been some investigations?

Pretty much, Qman is not surprised over Darox's death because HE KNEW he who was getting NK'd. Because he is scum. More ever, his reasoning is that he thought Darox was a cop. Not only that but it made it easy for him to say "This looks like a Brandi set up" which he probably thinks made himself appear more town.</sup>

Also Mr.Flay's response:

Why did you think Darox was gonna flip Cop? Who do you think he investigated?

<sup>Seems to imply that hes confident about the idea of a cop, and questioning thoughts on investigations is just... odd.

All in All, Mr.Flay and Qman are the only ones who have brought up the idea of a cop, and seem to believe that there IS a cop. As the uninformed minority, and with how things are going, I have found it hard to believe that there is a cop. But based on my suspicions, which I am very confident in, it seems as though there is one.</sup>


I'd say my suspicions speak for themselves.

[Brandi]

This is BS.

How odd... first you state in a previous quote "This is directed at Flay so I'll pass" but in the next you claim it to be, BS. Why are you answering for Flay? Perhaps because, OH. Hes your buddy?

Okay. Doesn’t change the fact I would have hammered bazza, there weren’t any other viable suspects and you seem to be implicating I should have gone after a doc claim that I believed.

BZZT. Wrong answer. So you're saying we HAD to lynch someone right away?

1.) What counter claim? Scum would have to be monumentally stupid to counter claim a doc on Day 1. Colossal, gigantic, retarded to counter claim it, and a town doc would have been equally as retarded to do so. This is just a dumb line of attack if you lean on counter claims. I wasn’t happy Flay hammered so fast, but your arguments about why he should have waited are just… odd.

Wrong again. Even if scum would have been stupid to counter claim, at least we would have been able to easily figure it out. The point is we should have left time for discussion. Because we would have LEARNED SOMETHING, from discussion.

Or it could be a frustrated IC tired of you hammering after Darox saying in effect OMG HE IS GUILTY, TRUST ME! Without you doing anything but saying that over and over and over and over. Your attack on darox was poor.. and I might point out WRONG. All your certainty, all your omg he must be! And you were 100% wrong.

Over emotional much? And exactly how is that relevant to what you just quoted. Hmm?

Oh I get it! You are using the fact that I was WRONG about Darox as EVIDENCE towards the fact that I must be WRONG about you and Mister Flay! Great play there, not. Haha, hahahaha.

There was no compelling reason for him to cop claim yesterday as it was pretty clear flay and I wouldn’t hammer him.

Oh, ok. So the cop didn't need to claim BECAUSE you and Flay wouldn't have hammered him? Just like you and Flay wouldn't have hammered the doctor? Maybe because you thought you had the cop figured out and could have NKed him, like you did with the doctor?

So wait.. you are now saying there is a cop, that could easily break the game right now with two valid investigations, after railing against Flay and I talking about the possibility that there is a cop? … Wow

Nope, wrong again. You and Mr.Flay are the only ones who have been implying that there was a cop. I never did such, ever, until now. Reasoning being for such, is because if I think the two of you are scum, and the two of you are certain there is a cop, then probably, there is a cop. But obviously if there IS a cop, he probably was role blocked, or something. Because, by now you'd think he'd mention some sort of investigation.

Lurking through D2

Wait a minute, you're using LURKING as a method of suspicion in LYLO? Yes, that makes a TON of sense Flay.

You could have plausibly dropped the hammer on armlx, citing your 'certainty' that he was scum, and then we'd have gone into Night without even a snowball's chance of him surviving/protecting anyone.

As I said before, no one in their RIGHT MIND would have lynched a claimed doctor, and if someone HAD lynched Armlx, they definitely would have had a great case on them the next day.

The real question is, why am I only receiving serious flak for this NOW, not D2/page 20? I'll posit that it's partly because you were lurkerscum.

Again with the lurking? Seriously, this is LYLO. You'll need to do better than that. Regardless of whether or not I'm bringing it up again NOW, its STILL EVIDENT.

So you are saying that we should have LEFT IT UNDER THE RUG? Yeah, scum WOULD say that.

So it's LyLo, Brandi. Who do you think the Cop is?

If there IS a cop, I think the only possible candidate could be Caf. I'm obviously not a cop, nor Qman, nor you. Clammy, I can't remember if he claimed or not, but I don't see how he could be a cop either.

That said, Brandi has gone quiet again.

Yah, I was gone for a while. I was expecting some prods when I came to the site but I didn't get any. I was also expecting more from Clammy. *shrugs*

[Brandi]

Um I posted in the L/VA topic, my access is extremely limited... because of reasons that I don't feel like repeating. But this game is close to over so there is absolutely no need to ask for a replacement here. Everyone else isn't very active either, anyway.

[Brandi]

I've always heard that scum usually make the first vote in Lylo. We'll see if that is true or not when this day ends. I will not vote yet, I'd rather garner the consensus of ALL the town first.

Brandi: Had you ever considered Qman as potential scum before you started making that post? Say, on Day 2?

No, I hadn't. =P

[Brandi]

Well just noting that, since Flay voted for me, and everyone has posted, that is definite proof that either Flay or me is scum. I know at least THAT much is 100% true and none of you can disagree with it.

What's happened to those "major reasons" that made you believe Q to be town?

The only thing I can think of is my lack of experience. I kind of associated ICness with townness, which I realize now is stupid.

[Brandi]

you are right. :U Why aren't I? Well

VOTE: Mr.Flay

There. ^^

[Brandi]

Proof that im a noob. sorry guys. Darox and Caf were awesome, great newbie town and caf was never scummy