Mewbie: 2092 [Finished]

[Somnus]

Oh wow. That first page made me involuntarily cringe. Nice work, everyone!

[Somnus]

VOTE: Somnus

Convince me you didn't roll scum again.

I in fact did not roll scum again.

This is weird. I actually have to work on solving the game. I don’t know how I feel about this, my favorite roll of toilet paper with a knife.

[Somnus]

You certainly seem to have a lust for blood in this game. You realize you won’t be able to kill anyone until Night 1, right?

[Somnus]

I am going to VOTE: Alianna because that's the opposite direction from my internal biases

Just curious what direction your internal bias was pointing towards.

[Somnus]

While I like cats and mostly dislike puns, I'm not in favor of this inauthentic-feeling (NOT feline) "town" block. It feels like quick and easy vote protection and not natural.

[Somnus]

I pretend town-read Alianna last game based on tone alone. Not much content to go on yet for really anyone beyond this questionable town block, but if Alianna can put the knife away for a bit, she does feel towny to me based exclusively on early tone and nothing else.

[Somnus]

Oh wow. That first page made me involuntarily cringe. Nice work, everyone!

This could be a turncoat from the rebellion.

Au contraire, my enigmatic one. This town block feels fake to me.

[Somnus]

Oh no, an SE has me as Lockscum already! I'm frozen. I should make a joke. How did they know? Accuse them of cheating. No. Pretend I didn't see their post. Ignore it forever, just like my coursework.

Hello everyone, I've been told it's scummy to greet the game but I want to anyway. I look forward to playing with you all

I will keep my vote for now so when I do drop it it's (hopefully) less random.

0/10 no cat puns
You'll be my first nightkill

@furtive

No cat puns is good, will you join me in the anti cat revolution?
We shall overthrow the cats so birds and goldfish can live in peave and not get eaten.

I actually love cats and have a pet cat, I just don't love cat puns. But I would love to join and cofound the anti-cat pun alliance (ACPA).

This ^

[Somnus]

No, but I currently am operating/sleeping at weird hours.

[Somnus]

Correct. My early impression is that it's to form a block for the purposes of voting protection and that any cat-related content regarding it is irrelevant.

[Somnus]

Now I feel like a kid counting down the days until Christmas. You're cruel. But ok.

[Somnus]

I read through your first game on this sight Somnus and noticed you joined the "golden girls townblock" right at the beginning which then kinda protected you.

Are you afraid that that is what is happening with me and furtiveglance right now and one of us is scum deceiveing the other into trusting them?

If so your fears are entirely justified (but hopefully false)

I'm hardly afraid. Just calling it as it appears to be.

[Somnus]

I'm not bold enough to think I've nailed down the exact scum team on page 5.

[Somnus]

I'm not bold enough to think I've nailed down the exact scum team on page 5.

I got a scum page 1. You can do it!

Well that was convincing, ye of too much faith.

VOTE: Goldfish

E-2. Tread carefully.

[Somnus]

The game has gotten off to a bit of a slow start, but given the 10 day deadline, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. We're presumably going to have a new player soon and hopefully we can all start picking each other's brains.

Alianna, where you at? Don't make me read you based solely on tone and charisma the whole game, plz.

[Somnus]

Pretty much all of my reads at this early point in the game are based on gut feel and not much else. I think Isis is a bit hard to figure out, but I'm leaning town there. I like the reasoning behind the vote in 141 and the follow-up in 145.

Alianna reads similar to me as the prior game where she was town, but I don't overdo it with clinging to meta, especially since I don't know what scum!Alianna looks like.

Newbie 2084 is actually a game that I've read in its entirety where Meg was a mafia PR. Same early-game style, but I'm not familiar with town!Meg, so I'm not willing to put a ton of stock in this (again, I only put so much emphasis in meta). Something to keep in mind though.

The Goldfish wagon looks like it lost a couple of wheels so I'll probably have to look into changing my vote within the next couple of days.

[Somnus]

I haven't gotten around to reading furtives games but alluding to the greeting tell indicates they are familiar with gambits. If I find one specific thing in their game isos I'll reevaluate but eh.

VOTE: Isis

I have one theory I'm exploring and one disproven hypothesis that I'll explain after my shift. They sort of contradict in a way though.

Don't leave us hangin'. I kind of like your approach to the game, but these tentative nuggets are leaving me unsatisfied.

[Somnus]

If Echo and furtive are familiar with each other elsewhere, any insight they could provide on each other could be beneficial. I've re-read Echo's entire ISO from this game about 7 times (I was willing to sacrifice the 12 seconds of my day) and can't form a read yet.

[Somnus]

I have one theory I'm exploring and one disproven hypothesis that I'll explain after my shift. They sort of contradict in a way though.

Hold no longer required. I'll give it 20 posts. This will make sense on page ~10-11

Pet theory was that Isis and Somnus are aligned and that Isis sniffed out where I was going following my engagement with Somnus.

Somnus has so far only rolled scum so I figured looking for gameplay patterns would be a lot more beneficial than doing so for the rest of the slots. In both games I noticed their reluctance to follow up pressure with votes so I'm reading their scum game as overly cautious.

In particular early voting. Transferring quotes from other games is a lot of work but the gist is that in both games there is a 10-20 page window until Somnus actually throws a vote down and that's only after testing the waters and gauging the room to see where votes are safe.

So I do townlean Somnus for the yolo nature of the goldfish vote, but with the caveat that they could have been coached by Isis to just throw it down.

This is true. My scum game has been overly cautious. I'm not a frequent or early voter as scum. I probably will be next time I roll scum now though

Can confirm that I'm not partnered with Isis, for whatever that's worth.

Welcome to my town-leans.

[Somnus]

Not sure if furtive could gave assembled that list as scum but somehow I doubt it.
Furtive* What games have you played so far on site?

I want to first clarify that my comment here doesn't pertain to furtive, but to the game of mafia as a whole: I did stuff like this in my first game (I was mafia). I took ridiculous amounts of notes and shared them in thread and it got me universally town-read. Someone even said that it would be virtually impossible for me to be mafia unless I was keeping a 2nd set of notes for PR hunting, which was very much not true. So I'd just warn anyone about town-reading someone simply for typing up a reads-list or sharing notes. It's not a hard thing to fake as mafia at all. I managed to do it on my own in my very first game. Again, this comment isn't about furtive or a read on him. Just something to be careful of.

So with that said, reads-lists/notes don't make me town-read anyone.

[Somnus]

VOTE: RCEnigma

hi

Moar, plz.

[Somnus]

Not gonna be happy if the player with literally 1 post in 5 days coasts by...

[Somnus]

It's better to get executed before ELo. Not good for you to be a highly suspicious townie for scum to keep around

This is in fact, still not true.

You think it's better to keep all the suspicious people alive and execute the trustworthy townies?

Define suspicious. You've named half the players in the game as the scum team in the last couple of pages. Mislimming a player you're "suspicious" of is not a win for town.

[Somnus]

I can't see myself voting for Alianna, Isis, or Enigma today. I'll reassess on Day 2, but we better get moving in case we get a claim that isn't VT.

[Somnus]

Welcome, Cat. I can’t believe there had been zero cat mentions in this game until you joined. Crazy that we went almost all of Day 1 without one.

[Somnus]

Damn I wrote that before I read how much that argument was distracting from the game.
Anyway at the start I thought alianna was town but later on she seems like scum.
Also is skipping a thing on this site. Like skipping a vote?

No elimination on Day 1 is very bad for town in this setup.

[Somnus]

These game are 2 vs 7 which makes me feel like town wins most of the time. Can someone give me an estimate of how often town wins. like 85%?

I'll do you better than that. I've become somewhat of an amateur NewD3 archiver. Town has won 53.9% of games in this setup (Town - 76 wins, Mafia - 65 wins). Certain blocks in the grid have a much higher win% for town than others. Mafia's only ahead of town in C3.

[Somnus]

Last post before I let someone else cut in. Claiming at E-2 (2 votes from elim) is better than waiting for e-1 just as a safety thing to avoid quick hammer shenanigans.

Do you want me to claim?

I'm going to take it as you think I should claim, your right about E-2 being safer than E-1 in case of a quickhammer. I'm a Vanilla Townie.

I'll echo what Cat said and agree...

I really wish you hadn't claimed yet. There was no guarantee that you were going to be the Day 1 elimination, and while there still isn't, getting multiple claims on Day 1 helps mafia tremendously.

[Somnus]

These game are 2 vs 7 which makes me feel like town wins most of the time. Can someone give me an estimate of how often town wins. like 85%?

I'll do you better than that. I've become somewhat of an amateur NewD3 archiver. Town has won 53.9% of games in this setup (Town - 76 wins, Mafia - 65 wins). Certain blocks in the grid have a much higher win% for town than others. Mafia's only ahead of town in C3.

You should update the wiki page, I was just looking at it and in the winrate/statistics section it points to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83092 which says this setup has a 60.8% winrate,

Not to stray off-topic here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=88838

There's been 3 completed games since then and I've factored them into the updated win%. I imagine the win-rate on the wiki is very out of date. Having gone through and tracked the results of every NewD3 game, I can confirm that town was absolutely stomping mafia in NewD3 through the first 60 or so games after it was introduced as the newbie format. Anyway, I don't want to derail the game with this, but just wanted to point it out. Carry on.

[Somnus]

Hmm. Alright so I like Cat. Feels like she's eager to learn and wants to solve. It's a nice upgrade from the 1 post we got from Echo.

I like Enigma. I think he's unconventional but is giving some hot takes and reasoning for his scum-reads. Didn't really think pushing for the early claim from Goldfish was necessary. We still had 4 days at that point, she was at E-2, and there were a couple of other rotating wagons.

I like Alianna. I think some of her jokey posts have rubbed people the wrong way, but that's always going to be NAI to me.

Isis can be hard to follow at times, but it feels like the solve attempts/progression of vote shifts is authentic.

Everyone else I'm kind of "meh" about. I don't know how I feel about Goldfish at this point (although I like you as a person, for whatever that's worth!), but I'd hate to see a scenario where we get multiple claims in a Day. Kind of makes night targets easier. It helped me tremendously in my first game on site as scum when we somehow got three VTs to claim on Day 1, two of which did so at E-2.

Sorry that I haven't been super active. In hindsight, signing up for this game was probably a bit of a mistake on my part with some of the stuff I'm juggling IRL. I figured it was going to be at least a couple of weeks before it started and that I'd have time to sort some things out. Didn't realize it was going to start within days of me signing up. My bad. While I'm in this game, I'm going to do what I can.

[Somnus]

I will if it means avoiding no-lim.

[Somnus]

Alright. I still don’t like getting multiple claims in a day, but it looks like that’s the direction we’re heading. I have a few ISOs I need to read through. I’ll be back later today.

[Somnus]

On mobile for a while still. Claim acknowledged and no counter from me.

[Somnus]

Isis brings up a good point..................


....can it really be called a mexicain restaurant when it’s completely lacking in tacos?

[Somnus]

Anyway, today probably has to be the day. I townread Enigma, Cat, Isis, and to a lesser extent, Alianna.

[Somnus]

If we’re going to continue to roll the dice and go for a 3rd claim, that means goldfish is off the table.

[Somnus]

I’ll join a wagon. Running out of time and I don’t see anything in Meg’s ISO that screams town to me.

VOTE: Meg

[Somnus]

Hmm. I'm sure they have endless tacos and guac in cat heaven, at least...

I'm going to carefully go through Isis' ISO later today and see if she crumbed PR at all or not. If not, there's a good chance this was what I would call an associative kill.

[Somnus]

That’s one I wasn’t expecting.

@RCE
Results?

Based on the Isis flip and what we now know mechanically, I wouldn't hold your breath on him having gotten a result Night 1.

[Somnus]

Treat a quick hammer as caught scum I am the tracker.

I wanted to do some VC stuff and look at overlap but it's not useful till we get a flip.

Also 100% I still encourage claims at E-2 over E-1 for these types of situations.

Meg + furtive wouldn't totally surprise me.

Isis switch on me is meh but leaning slight town
I think ryno has been spewed town at some point? You don't usually get a scum slot that unanimously gets read as town by the game. I do recall slight shade from some slots on ryno but still calling them town.

Goldfish is low side of town with Somnus who has a strong indicator for town but I can't rule out hyper self awareness. They have slipped in my reads a bit though.
Still feel Alianna is town and wins the ali/furtive 1v1 by virtue

Cat feels town but is tricky to place since I don't know if I'm townreading their play or newbie mannerisms.

RCEnigma lied about their role. If I understand the setup of this game correctly there are only 2 town power roles. I am a town power role and from my perspective it was possible there was a town tracker in this game. From the perspective of Isis it also would have been possible there was a tracker in this game. That's why neither of us said anything. I'm not going to say my exact role because I want to keep the mafia guessing but I will say we are dealing with a Mafia Rolecop.
VOTE: RCEnigma

Well this shit just got interesting

There's only 3 possibilities out of 9 where there's a tracker, so assuming you're telling the truth, I think anyone can figure out what your role is based on this and based on the lack of counter on Day 1. I'll wait until we've heard from Enigma, but I hear you loud and clear.

[Somnus]

And yes, there's never more than 2 town power roles in NewD3. In blocks C1 and C2, there's only 1.

[Somnus]

Yeah I mean I wasn't going to say it out loud, but based on the NewD3 grid, it's kind of obvious now. Regardless, again, assuming you're telling the truth, you were still right to out it.

[Somnus]

Once Isis flipped, I assumed we were in A2.

[Somnus]

Was about to put him at E-1. I'm not going to hammer before hearing from him, but there's no way that both Cat and Ryno would lie about this.

[Somnus]

Gonna be a short Day 2

[Somnus]

Oh this should be good.

[Somnus]

Intent to slammer my hammer.

I respect the game though, Enigma. Well played.

[Somnus]

I doubt cat is lying because Ryno backed her up. He wouldn't have done that unless they are both scum and if they are both scum this is a bad gambit because after RCE flips town we will know they are both scum and eliminate them. If it was day 3 this gambit would work but with the current number of living town players it can't.

In addition to this having played with cat before her current ISO is typical of her as town.

I mean, I agree with everything in the first part, and we know like 99% now that Cat is town, but weren't you saying before this incident that you could see Day 1 Cat being Scum?

[Somnus]

As soon as this day ends ill be deaddddd. I might want so say some more things. I didn't finish re-reading everything I wanted to. So can we postpone?

Yes, we can.

[Somnus]

So I was sitting at home right? Minding my business, like a good townie.

In steps Isis "howdy partner" (that's her jailkeeper voice)
"Mind if I .... Take a look around?"

At this point I start to sweat. I think she notices the 17 food bowls on my kitchen floor. I can feel the eyes piercing me from every corner of the room. Some high, some low.

"What can I do for you this fine night?" It takes a minute but I finally stammer out a coherent sentence.

"Quite a.....full house you've got here."

Isis pays my question no mind as she toes one of the food bowls.

"They aren't here I swear! I was cat sitting for one day but ....but they're all gone! I promise!"

The sweat is starting to get into my eyes, I wipe them on my sleeve but the sting still sticks. My vision is blurry but I think I see one of the shadows move across the room.

"Well.....That's good to hear" Isis spits back. "Then I guess you won't mind if I..........pspspspspspspspspsps."

It was over in an instant. I could barely hear Isis' gurgling over the cacophony of hisses and claws shredding skin. Oh my God it was awful.

I looked down at the blood staining my shirt and there staring back up at me from my feet. A pair of the coldest eyes man has ever encountered, purring contently to themselves. As if to warn me .... I could be next.

Well that settles that. It wasn't Enigma. It was the cats.

VOTE: Garfield [/v]

[Somnus]

VOTE: Garfield



UNVOTE: Garfield

[Somnus]

Take care, Cat. GG.

And you too, Enigma.

VOTE: Enigma

[Somnus]

Will need to go back and read through ISOs and how they connect with Enigma. Most people have been scum-readinf Alianna. I wasn’t, but I’ve admitted my early town read was mostly based on tone.

[Somnus]

Typos. On mobile.

[Somnus]

Must be. Couldn’t possibly be you or anyone else.

[Somnus]

Wouldn’t shock me. Probably not at the top of my list though

[Somnus]

I guess my reads have been very off then, must do better. Just to clarify in case RC is not real tracker and someone counter claims tomorrow or after, you will not be believed - the window is now.

Man, this looks even worse now than it did at the time.

[Somnus]

Can confirm from experience: it’s easy to know who is town and who is mafia when you’re informed.

[Somnus]

See y’all in two more days.

[Somnus]

Uhhh welcome back, Cat

I have some thoughts, but won’t be back home until much later.

[Somnus]

Anyone here a fan of 3 massive wall-posts? Asking for a friend.

[Somnus]

Alright. Going to be several enormous posts from me shortly as far as my thoughts on the gamestate. I don't normally do this and prefer to keep the majority of my posts brief rather than feel like I'm giving people homework. But I'm going to this time and I don't want to look at Mafia for at least 24 hours or so after this. Feels like I just typed a short research paper. So like...leave me the hell alone for the next 24-36 hours, plz. Thanks.

[Somnus]

Goldfish: I really didn't like the majority of Goldfish's early Day 1. I know the town-bloc thing was mostly a joke based on dislike of Cat puns, but as town, I think it's important to break up partnerships and blocs like that based on nothing game-related before a townie or two gets pocketed and votes along with scum the rest of the game. While NewD3 is very town-favored in the majority of the blocks, mafia tends to win these games when there's 1 mafia deep-wolf who has been nearly unanimously town-read through most of the game. It's practically the only way mafia ever wins these setups. If someone wants to have a discussion about this at a later date, I'd love to indulge, but now's not the time. Anyway, a premature town-bloc based on nothing game-related sets up such a scenario of a mafia deep-wolf.

While she's right in post 39 that the odds of me rolling mafia 3 straight games in this setup is small (based on my calculations, I believe it would be just shy of 1.1% chance?), I don't think it's a good reason to town-read me or anyone. She's since given other reasons, but it's a weird reason to town-read me super early into the game.

She seems to quickly abandon the town-bloc after people pick up on how suspicious it is, but then goes right back to it in post 76, inviting Alianna in based on a joke.

Even though I started this can I suggest we get back to the game?



In leiu of that here are some reads


I townrwad furtive for post #13, it doesn't look like a scum response.

I'm townreading Somnus until given compelling evidence otherwise, the chance of rolling scum 3 newbie games in a row is very small

I am going to VOTE: Alianna because that's the opposite direction from my internal biases

Unfortunately, your internal biases were correct.

town!Alianna easily makes this joke
scum!Alianna would be cognitively distanced from the joke because it's possible I'm biased against her partner
locktown UNVOTE:

I've been thinking about this post.
I don't think it's impossible that scum!me would say that. I have no idea who you were actually biased against. They could have been my hypothetical scumbuddy, but statistically they were probably a townie. When I answered the post, I was referring mostly to the fact that your internal bias to not scumread me was correct.
I can see you having that line of thought and townleaning me, but a locktown is extreme. If I'm not mistaken, you've decided based on a single early-game joke post that you will be hard-townreading me all game. You aren't even a bit skeptical?
I am concerned that you think I'm town because you

know

I'm town and might be trying to pocket me (probably used that term wrong). The finger of suspicion is on you.

Alianna gets town ++++ points for this, I find it very unlikely scum alianna would say this. I also think that some of her jokes and banter look unlikely to come from scum.

For this reason I'm adding Alianna to my townblock.

Side note, @furtive, as the towncore of two we really aren't doing very well are we.

Most of Goldfish's posts through the first 100 posts of the game are about town-blocs. Not a fan. With that said, I think her contributions and vibe changed ever increasingly as the game progressed, primarily in Day 1 (since Day 1 has made up the overwhelming majority of the game thus far). I kind of like post 194 about Isis.

Hmm. Goldfish what is your Isis read?

I've been kind of "sitting on the fence" on that, aka. It's sort of null. Some of her posts I've really liked and agree with but a lot of them seem to have large amounts of analysis which I can't follow to logic behind. Maybe it's just me being dumb, or as Somnus said in I think it was post 117, analysis and notes can be quite easy for scum to fake.

I like that in posts such as 216, she's calling out Ryno, a player who has been widely town-read through this game.

There's several more posts such as 223, 224, and 246 questioning Ryno's logic, followed by a vote for him in 249, which is very against the grain. After having played in just a couple of these games, I've noticed that some people get very offended if another player isn't agreeing with their reads, even going as far as to take the approach of "This person's reads align with mine, therefor they are town. This other person's reads don't align with mine, therefor they are scum" which I think is a super elementary/level 0 approach to the game. Goldfish isn't doing that and votes for a widely town-read player here.

I'll hop on the bandwagon!

VOTE: Alianna

But not seriously. I'm afraid you're alone in that wish.

UNVOTE:

Wow, this joke is super scummy. Feels like scum worried about an actual bandwagon forming then joking about it to ease their fears.

Town wouldn't worry about a bandwagon forming on them. They wouldn't even think about the possibility.

Alianna seems super fixated on it.

I'm sorry but this is just not true. A town player would be very concerned about a wagon forming on them because it could cause a miselimination.

And as for not even thinking about the possibility that's ridiculous, miselminations and bandwagons against town happen all the time, it's definitely a possibility.

VOTE: Ryno56

At the moment they're looking like the scummiest player to me. They started off the game by voting meg for something they were doing at the time. Their explanation really didn't cut it for me and almost felt like they were trying to buddy up with me. This strange argument about miselimination seems designed to distract people from the game, and Ryno's points don't make sense but they're doubling down on them anyway. Do you know who likes miselimination? Scum! And Ryno. His reason for voting Alianna (who I townread) is again his strange reasoning that Town shouldn't care about wagons on themself. All this inferred from a joke Alianna made where she voted herself when furtive asked for a wagon on her. Looking through the game I'm seeing a Ryno/furtive scum pair, they seem to back each other up a lot, although most of it is indirectly, and their reasons for townreading each other are a bit shakey. Ryno also started the game (properly, not counting the two cat jokes in the first couple of pages) by after voting meg, seeming like they were buddying up to me - who at the time was considered on of furtives allies because of the anti cat pun aliance.

Still didn't like the early claim at E-2 and because we ended up getting THREE claims on Day 1 (one of them was obviously fake), it likely helped mafia kill a town PR Night 1. Folks, if you get a player close to elimination in this setup and they claim VT, you almost always have to push them through. At that point, it's not just about the possibility that you're wrong, but about protecting the Town PRs.

Last post before I let someone else cut in. Claiming at E-2 (2 votes from elim) is better than waiting for e-1 just as a safety thing to avoid quick hammer shenanigans.

Do you want me to claim?

I'm going to take it as you think I should claim, your right about E-2 being safer than E-1 in case of a quickhammer. I'm a Vanilla Townie.

I kind of like the honesty in 346 about not having an idea what is going on. I'm serious about that. I've felt that way through the majority of the game, and it seems genuine.

Is anyone considering moving their vote?

I might move mine. I have literally no idea what is going on though so I'm not sure who I'd move it too.

Treat a quick hammer as caught scum I am the tracker.

I wanted to do some VC stuff and look at overlap but it's not useful till we get a flip.

Also 100% I still encourage claims at E-2 over E-1 for these types of situations.

Meg + furtive wouldn't totally surprise me.

Isis switch on me is meh but leaning slight town
I think ryno has been spewed town at some point? You don't usually get a scum slot that unanimously gets read as town by the game. I do recall slight shade from some slots on ryno but still calling them town.

Goldfish is low side of town with Somnus who has a strong indicator for town but I can't rule out hyper self awareness. They have slipped in my reads a bit though.
Still feel Alianna is town and wins the ali/furtive 1v1 by virtue

Cat feels town but is tricky to place since I don't know if I'm townreading their play or newbie mannerisms.

About the Ryno thing. I was the one who threw shade on them (and I'm still not convinced their town) but about the spewed town and unanimous reads thing I don't think that's unusual on day 1 when we don't have any flips to go off and the game hasn't been going as long. In the last game I was in, newbie 2090, one of the scum (MrTurtle) was unanimously considered the towniest player on day 1.

Agree with this as a possibility in 396. NewD3 is a very town-leaning setup. If you've never played as mafia in this setup, especially two games in a row, and ESPECIALLY in your first two games, you have no idea how much the deck is stacked against you in most of the blocks on the grid. Mafia pretty much ONLY wins these games when there's a deep-wolf who is being universally town-read and is never in any real danger of elimination.

I didn't particularly have any problem with Alianna's hammer itself like Goldfish did in 485. I'll address more on that though 2 posts from now. We had less than 24 hours left in Day 1 and Meg's wagon was pretty much the only one with any steam. It was also already the 3rd claim we had gotten in Day 1. And because we were under the impression at the time that Enigma was the tracker, unless we were going to fish for an unbelievable 4th claim on Day 1, the only other option would have been to vote off Goldfish. With that said, quick hammers are a LOT more common on this site outside of the Newbie queue, so much so that they're often not scum-read in the current meta.

Let's talk about Aliannas decision to hammer. I really didn't like it. There was no reasoning behind voting meg apart from "it's this or nothing" which doesn't show much confidence in the elimination. She also didn't post an intend to hammer to allow other players to give their thoughts on the elimination or give meg a final defence. Feels like she might be scum just trying to get the day over with.

Overall, there's a LOT of off-topic posts in Goldfish's ISO. I don't mind that as much as a lot of other players do in other games in the Newbie Queue. We're not just here to win, we're here to converse and have fun, and I think a lot of people lose sight of that. There's enough in there that while I'm certainly not lock-towning Goldfish, I don't think it's my preferred elimination today unless someone can present a compelling case. I don't think it gives us the best chance of ending the game Day 3. It's basically the least sketchy ISO of the 3 I went through.

[Somnus]

As far as Ryno:

In 79, Ryno has a good feeling about Goldfish and claims she's been helpful, but as I mentioned in the previous post, I don't think Goldfish came across even remotely town through the first 100 or so posts of the game. And I'm not in any way, shape, or form targetting Meg when I say this, but I agree that Meg's contributions through a lot of Day 1 didn't have a ton of substance. Quite frankly, a lot of us, definitely myself included, didn't post a ton of ground-breaking substance. I feel like most of us have mostly been like, "I dunno, I think this person is town and this person is scum". Again, to be clear, I am guilty of this in this game as well.

Ryon I was just about to vote you for being inactive and not contributing to the game and now here you are!

Could you explain your reason for voting MegAzumarill

Sure thing. Similarly to your points, I don't think MegAzumarill has posted much of substance so I haven't been able to get a good read on them. Outside of that, I have a good feeling about you early on since I think you've been helping out.

This post didn't really catch my attention until just this moment: In 175, Ryno says that Goldfish has posted a lot without scumhunting. I guess a lot can change in the early parts of the game, but it was basically 24 hours separating this post from post 79.

did i move my vote off furtive i cant remember and the mod ionly priomises me a postcount

You haven't moved your vote.

Goldfish has posted a lot but it's mostly things like this, being helpful without scumhunting. There's also lots of fence-sitting. This is scummy.

Several of Rynos posts after that caught my attention in real-time during Day 1. Posts such as 214, 215, and 219 come across as scum desperately flinging poop at a wall and hoping something sticks, despite very little to go by (sorry, that was gross). It's a super odd sequence that practically took place back to back to back of targetting different people over virtually nothing. I believe this is the absolute worst part of Ryno's ISO.

I'll hop on the bandwagon!

VOTE: Alianna

But not seriously. I'm afraid you're alone in that wish.

UNVOTE:

Wow, this joke is super scummy. Feels like scum worried about an actual bandwagon forming then joking about it to ease their fears. Town wouldn't worry about a bandwagon forming on them. They wouldn't even think about the possibility. Alianna seems super fixated on it.

Not gonna be happy if the player with literally 1 post in 5 days coasts by...

Deflecting our focus as soon as we propose pushing onto Alianna and Alianna drops a scumtell. Somnus could be Alianna's scumbuddy...

I'll hop on the bandwagon!

VOTE: Alianna

But not seriously. I'm afraid you're alone in that wish.

UNVOTE:

Wow, this joke is super scummy. Feels like scum worried about an actual bandwagon forming then joking about it to ease their fears.

Town wouldn't worry about a bandwagon forming on them. They wouldn't even think about the possibility.

Alianna seems super fixated on it.

I'm sorry but this is just not true. A town player would be very concerned about a wagon forming on them because it could cause a miselimination.

And as for not even thinking about the possibility that's ridiculous, miselminations and bandwagons against town happen all the time, it's definitely a possibility.

Miselimination is fine, it can be helpful if it helps clear suspicions. It's better to execute someone suspicious than leaving them in the game. Scum are naturally much more worried about a bandwagon forming against them. Town really don't care. You're very focussed on defending yourself, then deflecting attention elsewhere. Very scummy.

Posts 225, 227, and 230 are pretty bad too. But I digress.

It's a bit more nuanced than that. Your win condition is to execute scum at some point during the game. If people are suspicious of you then it is a good thing for you to be executed. That helps your win condition.

It's better to get executed before ELo. Not good for you to be a highly suspicious townie for scum to keep around

It's better to get executed before ELo. Not good for you to be a highly suspicious townie for scum to keep around

This is in fact, still not true.

You think it's better to keep all the suspicious people alive and execute the trustworthy townies?

Very much agree with 272 and I vocally agreed with this notion at the time as well.

Just to say, I would definitely NOT recommend claiming your role because this allows the scum players to kill the powerful roles during the night. In this setup, it's not worth it. I get your point though, in other mafia games it can be a good idea to claim your role.

Post 434 is kinda ehhh...I don't mind the case on Meg. Jumping to pre-flip teams though, again is kinda lol.

Alianna gives me massive scum vibes... And Alianna now being suspicious of Meg (all of a sudden) makes me think they are scum setting up a bus, thinking Meg might be executed today and wanting to get there early. But also not committing either way. 'Waiting to see what town wants to do'. Talking as though they are not even IN the town. Scummy as heck.

Notice Meg is still hanging back, barely committing to anything, barely contributing (except to defend themself from my argument against them)

Alianna-Meg scum team

Game solved

Not really much to add as far as Day 2 or Day 3, but that's because most of the game has taken place in Day 1 so far. I don't know. There's some parts in Ryno's ISO that I REALLY don't like where it looks like he's just trying to build a case against anyone based on virtually nothing and hoping something sticks. He's been widely town-read by the majority of the players in the game, but he's been a solid null for me the entire game.

About the night kill: Your guesses are as good as mine, and I don't think it's wise to build a case on someone solely or primarily based around who was night-killed. So I'm not really going to build a hypothetical case around who was Night-killed. I went through Isis' entire ISO carefully during Night 2 and didn't see anything that resembled a PR crumb, so I'm still not sure what the exact reason for that kill was either other than potentially just killing an SE.

For a basically confirmed IC to be kept alive in favor of a vanilla townie, the most logical conclusion I can think of is that Enigma's partner was in a very good spot and being town-read by the somehow still-living town PR for an extra Day was more important than killing the PR. Again, just my opinion, but if we're analyzing who the night kill likely would have benefited the most, this would be my best guess. It would likely be a deep-wolf who is widely town-read. With that said, and I'm going to repeat myself: I don't think it's wise to build a case against someone based solely on who was Night-Killed. I think it's worth revisiting as a possibility if there's a Day 4 and if it's applicable.

[Somnus]

About Alianna:

Alianna was my bud briefly in Newbie 2090. Big fan of her and I think she makes the game more fun.

Post 139 is the first one that I would say offered any substance, and is a very hedgey reads-list. It's basically, "Everyone is town!"

The game has gotten off to a bit of a slow start, but given the 10 day deadline, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. We're presumably going to have a new player soon and hopefully we can all start picking each other's brains.

Alianna, where you at? Don't make me read you based solely on tone and charisma the whole game, plz.

My disjointed thoughts so far:

Somnus:
Not quite sure how to sort you yet, but I'm giving you town points for asking me that. It seems as if you're putting in more effort to scumhunt.

furtiveglance:
38, 48 - Discuss pairs. Not sure if that means anything but might be good to go back to later.
116 - I like their read on Goldfish.
Also, not alignment-related, but the second part of 13 is pretty much what I had originally planned to say in my first post.

GoldfishFromTheMoon:
Seems very town, can't quite explain why at the moment, may come back to this, subject to change.

Isis: They have some strange logic.
54 - Already commented.
55, 72 - Though they didn't have a strong read, the reasoning for the read seemed random. If I'm not mistaken, RVS was over by that point.
121 - I would like to hear why they voted Meg.

MegAzumarill:
I decided to look through some of their prior games. Their lack of substantial posts in the early game seems to be just playstyle rather than something AI.

The others, I don't have much on for varying reasons.

I had completely forgotten about 155 until re-reading it just now, but pretty much confirms what I said about 139.

Alianna

: 74 is her most interesting post so far. If you read it assuming town!Alianna, they are town afraid of being pocketed. But I think scum!Alianna makes more sense here - as if scum!Alianna has been given a jokey 'locktown' and is ambitiously levering herself onto even higher ground by suspecting Isis (which, by the way, came out of absolutely nowhere). Adding my Isis townread onto this interaction and it looks bad for Alianna. Her reads in 139 are guilty of townreading too many players, which is more often scum-indicative in my experience. It looks like they are tentatively setting up a push on Isis, but haven't committed to that yet, instead leaving their RVS vote on me. I also don't like that they missed out some players in 139, but I can understand why. For now it's a tentative scumlean. Alianna - if you had to guess one mafia right now, who is your top pick?

UNVOTE: RCEnigma

VOTE: Alianna

1. I should really UNVOTE: . I understand that not doing so looked suspicious and that doing so now probably looks even more suspicious. I have no idea why I didn't do it in 139.
2. I only townread three people - you, Somnus, and Goldfish (coincidentally, the three others from 2090 - idk if I'm just finding it easier to read people I've played with or if I'm biased). Excluding myself, there are six other townies in the game. I wouldn't call that too many townreads. In case it seemed otherwise, my comment on MegAzumarill was not a TR, they were at E-2 and I didn't like that they were being voted for doing something that is NAI for them. They could very well still be scum, the case against them just wasn't very good.
3. As for my top scum pick…I can see I’m about to look sus here. I don’t really have one. I can see scum!Isis, but I wouldn’t vote her. I’ve also got three players I haven’t been able to comment on. I would like if Echo would talk more and Enigma would share their theories.
4. I will attempt to respond later to what you’ve said about 74.

Isis already called out that 188 looks pretty bad. It reads like Alianna was sitting and waiting to see who was going to be a lim candidate and then immediately directing her attention there and hoping someone else builds a case so that she can hop on. Again, just my impression.

did i move my vote off furtive i cant remember and the mod ionly priomises me a postcount

You haven't moved your vote.

Goldfish has posted a lot but it's mostly things like this, being helpful without scumhunting. There's also lots of fence-sitting. This is scummy.

I like this post. Now that I think about it, Goldfish hasn't given a lot of analysis or explained her reads much. I am seriously rethinking my TR.
Can you give examples of where you've seen her fence-sitting?

I know the self-vote quickly followed by the unvote was a joke, but I'm not a fan of it. Whatever though.

I'll hop on the bandwagon!

VOTE: Alianna

I'm fine with her voting for Goldfish in 241.

Goldfish is probably a good elim even though I like her. She's managed to post a lot about the game without sounding as solvy as other slots, up to and including furtive

Completely agreed.
Time to get the wagon rolling!

VOTE: GoldfishFromTheMoon

Admits that Ryno's play has been scummy and agrees with Goldfish's logic. Props for going through Ryno's ISO in his other two games. I don't think she ever ventures here further though after this one post.

VOTE: Ryno56

At the moment they're looking like the scummiest player to me. They started off the game by voting meg for something they were doing at the time. Their explanation really didn't cut it for me and almost felt like they were trying to buddy up with me. This strange argument about miselimination seems designed to distract people from the game, and Ryno's points don't make sense but they're doubling down on them anyway. Do you know who likes miselimination? Scum! And Ryno. His reason for voting Alianna (who I townread) is again his strange reasoning that Town shouldn't care about wagons on themself. All this inferred from a joke Alianna made where she voted herself when furtive asked for a wagon on her. Looking through the game I'm seeing a Ryno/furtive scum pair, they seem to back each other up a lot, although most of it is indirectly, and their reasons for townreading each other are a bit shakey. Ryno also started the game (properly, not counting the two cat jokes in the first couple of pages) by after voting meg, seeming like they were buddying up to me - who at the time was considered on of furtives allies because of the anti cat pun aliance.

Their play is definitely scummy, but the thing that makes me hesitate is their past games. I skimmed through their ISOs in those games (both town PRs, btw) and I don't see a lot of difference. They have a lot of shaky reasoning like that. Still undeniably anti-town though.

Real-talk though: I'm sorry to hear that about post 404. I'm not going to side-track things here with my thoughts as far as where I'm at with the game of Mafia, but I feel like I'm largely burned out from it already and am still trying to figure out if I even enjoy playing it. After the initial newness and excitement wore off, it just started to feel like a lot of work both as scum and as town, and I haven't been nearly as enthusiastic about these last two games. But that's a conversation for another time, I suppose.

At this point, I'd vote myself (as in unironically) if that wasn't blatantly anti-town. I have not been enjoying this game.

400+ posts into the game and you've got to at least try to take a stance somewhere, no? Otherwise, it starts to come across as scum just waiting to see what wagon forms.

At a point not so long ago, I was about to type up a wallpost listing everyone as a null read. At this point, I am no longer considering doing that but still have no clue who the mafia are.

I kind of cringe at some of the reads-lists people post, so don't take this personally! Actually, you're not really guilty of this, but when people are posting updated readslists every day after 20 or so gameposts have taken place and treating them like power rankings in sports, I involuntarily cringe. Again, you don't really do this though. My question though is that you were very ready to vote off Goldfish, which I didn't have a problem with, but in this readslist, all you have to say about her is "idk". I don't get it.

The actual readslist:

RCEnigma

Confirmed town.

Ryno56

Though I agree with almost nothing they’ve said this game, I still think they’re most likely town. furtive has already put this way better than I can so I’m just going to quote it.

Ryno seems to be trying to solve, making good points which actually pertain to other players i.e. analysis not information, and they clearly aren't afraid to ruffle feathers.

Somnus

Their play has seemed town and there are definitely differences from last game, but the possibility of a “threepeat” clouds things. I don’t want to vote them today though.

furtiveglance

A bold player. They go against the grain with their reads and bring up points others haven’t thought of (best example is the read on Somnus in 349). They also aren’t afraid to put pressure on their scumreads. Whether this points towards town or scum, though, I’m not sure.

Cat.Jpeg

They give me town vibes, but I am wary of trusting a read based only on vibes or gut feeling. If you want to know why, read Newbie 2090.

GoldfishFromTheMoon

Idk.

MegAzumarill

Because they are a reserved player, this is a hard slot to read. Currently (see, I avoided saying “at this point” this time), though, I do think they’re less towny than a lot of the others.

Isis

I did a bit of a 180 from what I said in the “draft’ readslist. I’ve gone through her entire ISO and nothing makes me want to TR her. This is not to say that everything she has posted is scummy, rather that I have noticed nothing that sticks out as town. I will leave it at that for now.

I will hold my vote until I have a better idea of what town wants to do. There are a few wagons I wouldn’t mind (and a few I would absolutely hate).

Also, a note: I don’t think we can SR anyone for being wishy-washy or flipping reads this game, given that that applies to quite a few people.

If people are thinking Goldfish/Meg for day 1, I'd like to keep Meg alive. Still sussing Alianna but if no one wants that I will move my vote.

I don't think I could validate voting Meg out today either.

The actual readslist:

RCEnigma

Confirmed town.

Ryno56

Though I agree with almost nothing they’ve said this game, I still think they’re most likely town. furtive has already put this way better than I can so I’m just going to quote it.

Ryno seems to be trying to solve, making good points which actually pertain to other players i.e. analysis not information, and they clearly aren't afraid to ruffle feathers.

Somnus

Their play has seemed town and there are definitely differences from last game, but the possibility of a “threepeat” clouds things. I don’t want to vote them today though.

furtiveglance

A bold player. They go against the grain with their reads and bring up points others haven’t thought of (best example is the read on Somnus in 349). They also aren’t afraid to put pressure on their scumreads. Whether this points towards town or scum, though, I’m not sure.

Cat.Jpeg

They give me town vibes, but I am wary of trusting a read based only on vibes or gut feeling. If you want to know why, read Newbie 2090.

GoldfishFromTheMoon

Idk.

MegAzumarill

Because they are a reserved player, this is a hard slot to read. Currently (see, I avoided saying “at this point” this time), though, I do think they’re less towny than a lot of the others.

Isis

I did a bit of a 180 from what I said in the “draft’ readslist. I’ve gone through her entire ISO and nothing makes me want to TR her. This is not to say that everything she has posted is scummy, rather that I have noticed nothing that sticks out as town. I will leave it at that for now.

I will hold my vote until I have a better idea of what town wants to do. There are a few wagons I wouldn’t mind (and a few I would absolutely hate).

Also, a note: I don’t think we can SR anyone for being wishy-washy or flipping reads this game, given that that applies to quite a few people.

Could you expand on which wagons you hate and which ones you wouldn't mind/are unsure about

I'd be okay with a wagon on Meg, Isis, mayyyyyybe you but not sure. I want to keep the rest alive.

But in 458, now you're suddenly okay with a wagon on Meg after previously stating you couldn't validate voting for Meg today. I know reads can change, but there's quite a few posts now in this ISO that looks like scum sitting back and waiting to jump on whatever the most popular wagon is.

Oh, wow. I get back and Meg is at E-1.

I didn't have a huge problem with the quick-hammer of Meg, and I stated the reasons why in my wall-post about Goldfish. The sequence of 459, 460, and 461 though all takes place in a 3 minute window. The quick-hammer itself doesn't look bad. The sequence as a whole does though.

I don't know if I should hammer.

Ok, screw it. It's looking like this or a no-lim.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

I feel like I'm going to end up regretting that.

Not a big deal, but in 497 when we were under the impression that Enigma was the tracker, a jailkeeper had just flipped, and we presumably were in A2 with a roleblocker, you had to know that town!Enigma wasn't going to get a result, right?

That’s one I wasn’t expecting.

@RCE
Results?

Yeah I don't get 570 or how it would even remotely be possible, but you seem to reach the same conclusion immediately.

I see I missed a lot. Pretty much the entirety of Day 2 happened while I was sleeping.
I'm surprised that Cat isn't dead.
Conspiracy theory: We're in C2, it's RCE/Cat, and this is the most ridiculous gambit ever done.

I'm not a fan of Alianna's overall ISO. In our previous game together, I was scum and fake town-read her. People who rarely or never have had to play as scum would be surprised how little you actually have to lie as scum. I meant what I said in Newbie 2090: If I were town in that game, I would have town-read her pretty hard just based on newbie tone. And I initially town-read her early on in this game as well, based exclusively on tone, and it's something that I probably need to stop doing for anyone if I decide to continue playing the game of mafia and if I'm going to be getting more of these weird green-colored role PMs.

Doing a deep-dive through the actual content though, it looks like scum sitting back and waiting for literally any wagon to form. Sorry, Alianna

VOTE: Alianna

Consider me unofficially on V/LA for at least 24 hours.

[Somnus]

On mobile so I’m going to keep it brief. Just caught up. Didn’t expect Day 3 to be over when I came back. Looks like a very long twilight. I doubt Alianna is trolling here. I don’t think that’s really in her wheelhouse.

[Somnus]

Alrighty. Just so we're clear: I haven't made up my mind yet. My impressions on Day 3, as explained in posts 589, 590, and 591, were that the order of most likely to be town were Goldfish, Ryno, and Alianna in that order. But I'm about 60/40 on that at best now after the Alianna flip. I'm not interested in trying to force prior reads into being correct. I'm interested in making the correct decision and I'm open to having my mind changed.

[Somnus]

Above all nobody vote unless you are absolutely sure the person is scum because if one of us votes the other townie the mafia can quickhammer and win the game.

Thanks, mom

Kidding.

[Somnus]

Actually, while you're here, if you're up for it, I have a couple of questions if you'd care to indulge me. Let me know.

[Somnus]

Alright, cool.

VOTE: Ryno56

At the moment they're looking like the scummiest player to me. They started off the game by voting meg for something they were doing at the time. Their explanation really didn't cut it for me and almost felt like they were trying to buddy up with me. This strange argument about miselimination seems designed to distract people from the game, and Ryno's points don't make sense but they're doubling down on them anyway. Do you know who likes miselimination? Scum! And Ryno. His reason for voting Alianna (who I townread) is again his strange reasoning that Town shouldn't care about wagons on themself. All this inferred from a joke Alianna made where she voted herself when furtive asked for a wagon on her. Looking through the game I'm seeing a Ryno/furtive scum pair, they seem to back each other up a lot, although most of it is indirectly, and their reasons for townreading each other are a bit shakey. Ryno also started the game (properly, not counting the two cat jokes in the first couple of pages) by after voting meg, seeming like they were buddying up to me - who at the time was considered on of furtives allies because of the anti cat pun aliance.

Can you explain why you thought Ryno was buddying you? I like that you were willing to case a player on Day 1 that was receiving a lot of early town-reads. I don't think this post is sus, but I'm hoping you can explain the buddying thing.

I'm kinda sus of cat at the moment. She sometimes plays like this as scum.

Obviously, Cat isn't around anymore, but what was it in Cat's ISO that pinged you at that point? It'll help me get a feel for your scum-hunting/scum-reading process and help me sort out if it feels natural.

I doubt cat is lying because Ryno backed her up. He wouldn't have done that unless they are both scum and if they are both scum this is a bad gambit because after RCE flips town we will know they are both scum and eliminate them. If it was day 3 this gambit would work but with the current number of living town players it can't.

In addition to this having played with cat before her current ISO is typical of her as town.

I mean, I agree with everything in the first part, and we know like 99% now that Cat is town, but weren't you saying before this incident that you could see Day 1 Cat being Scum?

That was near the beginning when she didn't have as much content. Also cat is a really good scum player and would have been able to replicate her town play to fool me.

I think my main concern as far as these posts was how quickly the read changed when very little happened involving Cat up to this point quoted above.

You are GOLD, gold, always believe in your sooooul

What if my soul's telling me you are scum

Were there any new developments since the buddying post or was the read mostly from what you mentioned before?

[Somnus]

To clarify above on my 3rd point about Cat, obviously the counter-claim changes things, but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the pat where you said her ISO is typical of Cat!Town.

[Somnus]

@Goldfish Thanks. I don't really have much I can add to your explanations. As far as the buddying thing, I think one harmless (in my opinion) post saying that he has a good feeling about you early on isn't indicative of Scum!Ryno. In the condition that Ryno were scum, I think it is more plausible that he was trying to buddy furtive on Day 1, but I digress.

I have some questions I'd like to ask of Ryno at some point too but I don't know that I'm going to get around to it tonight.

I'm going to spend a little bit of time meta-diving, even though I think meta is typically a pretty small part of the puzzle. Here's the thing though: I have one game of Town!Goldfish to go by and I was in that game so I'm already pretty familiar with it, even though I was pretty checked out mentally for a lot of that game. Unfortunately, it's pretty limited because I can't even see what early-game town Goldfish is like, since you replaced into that game late on Day 1.

I have two games of Town!Ryno to go by, and it looks like there were 3 years ago. I don't have any prior scum-games from either of you to go by. Likewise, if either of you were interested in meta-diving me (particularly Ryno, since he's not previously familiar with me), you have zero previous town-games from me to go by. Additionally, it looks like Ryno has been town PRs in both of his previous two games on here. There's often a fine line between town PR vs. vanilla townie so I don't know how much good it's even going to do me and it's likely going to be a waste of time, but I'm going to check regardless.

Anyway, that's just kind of where I'm at right now.

[Somnus]

I'm guessing the scum kill gets selected before Friendly Neighbour action goes through? @moderator

All night-actions go through at once. Picture a Mexican Standoff. Mafia fires their pew pew gun at Friendly Neighbor, Friendly Neighbor releases their message right as the bullets hit them and the message still reaches the recipient. There are situations where certain power roles have priority over others in a case where they would clash. This is called Natural Action Resolution. In NewD3, for example, Mafia roleblocker has priority over jailkeeper. Not relevant here, but good to know for future games.

Actually, there's a question that I was HOPING whichever of you is town was going to ask me early on in Day 4 about this. While the outcome wasn't important, I thought it was a question that whoever is town would have asked me out of curiosity and mafia likely wouldn't have cared enough to ask. But since no one did, and the window for it to help me someone has probably closed (especially now that I'm bringing attention to it), the answer is "No", Cat did not target me Night 3.

[Somnus]

I would like to note that if I was scum, these night kills would be awful choices. I would have kept all those people who were townreading me. You can WIFOM that all you like, of course

Coming back to this shortly.

[Somnus]

Honestly at the moment I'm leaning towards scum!Somnus, but not confident enough to put down a vote yet.

Sadly, despite my previous games, I'm not everyone's favorite villain this time. I'm a boring vanilla townie which I had zero problems with, given my first two games. But if you have any questions to help sort me, let me know. And if you end up being mafia and still have questions for me, at least it would help Ryno sort me

[Somnus]

But I'm not really going to pay any attention to what people say today since everyone is simply incentivised to make a case for themselves, it's just words.

Literally forum mafia is just words. How do you expect to sort people and make the correct decision if you're town and you have zero interest in what people are saying?

[Somnus]

I would like to note that if I was scum, these night kills would be awful choices. I would have kept all those people who were townreading me. You can WIFOM that all you like, of course

So I said I'd come back to this. Needed to grab some quotes.

So I have multiple problems with this post.

1.) It's a weird first game-related post to make in eLo when nobody was trying to build a case on you around it and comes across as preemptively defensive about an attack that wasn't being presented.

2.) You've gone back and forth a few times regarding whether the Night-Kill should even be analyzed. The only time you seem to want to analyze it is when you think it will benefit you (which, in this case, it doesn't).

I'm a little busy at the moment, so I'll try to give reads on the others later, but for now consider the following.
Assume I'm scum. Day 2, furtiveglance both cleared me for my associatives and hard-sussed Somnus. Killing them is the worst decision I could possibly make. Scum!me is in a terrible position and desperately needs people to vote someone that isn't me. I'm not going to silence the person who wants to do that the most.

This post is INCREDIBLY scummy. I think Alianna just explained why they killed furtive.

I wouldn't focus on the nightkill, it's just going to confuse you

I would like to note that if I was scum, these night kills would be awful choices. I would have kept all those people who were townreading me. You can WIFOM that all you like, of course

3.) It's factually and perhaps blatantly incorrect. Out of the three Night-Kills, only furtive was town-reading you. I couldn't remember any of Isis' thoughts about you, and after pulling up her ISO, I now realize why. Your name appears in her ISO a grand total of zero times. Here's her posts where she mentions me: all townreads, by the way. And considering both Alianna and I went through her ISO and saw no PR crumbs, by your logic, this would clear me since an SE who town-read me the entire game was killed.

I haven't gotten around to reading furtives games but alluding to the greeting tell indicates they are familiar with gambits. If I find one specific thing in their game isos I'll reevaluate but eh.

VOTE: Isis

I have one theory I'm exploring and one disproven hypothesis that I'll explain after my shift. They sort of contradict in a way though.

Don't leave us hangin'. I kind of like your approach to the game, but these tentative nuggets are leaving me unsatisfied.

i kinda see somnus town this is so agendaless. no caps cause i broke a nail

I'll feel really silly if Alianna is scum because some of her play can be portrayed as obvi level zero aggressive scumplay but I think she is prolly town.

Not as strong a read as Somnus for sure

I would like to assume at least one of those is obviously green leaning and will explain remainder on ask

158 106 83

And here's what she has to say about Goldfish:

VOTE: GoldfishFromTheMoon

Goldfish is probably a good elim even though I like her. She's managed to post a lot about the game without sounding as solvy as other slots, up to and including furtive

Cat certainly wasn't town-reading you by the end of Day 3. You were her biggest scum-read. The first post here was from an initial reads-list. Outdated, but you were below Goldfish and I. The rest of the posts are all from Day 3 twilight.

A pretty rough list from least to most sus in my eyes

me, duh

100%

Goldfish

85%

I agree with what furtive said abt her. I also don't think she acts the way she acts because she is scum but rather because, to quote her from when she unvoted 'I have literally no idea what is going on though so I'm not sure who I'd move it too.'

Somnus

75%

I haven't read the past games and honestly I don't intend to but from there ISO this game they seem town to me. True there's no scumreads in 329 but if this is their first time as town it's understandable. Their early game seemed very town, felt a bit patronising with the 'eager to learn and wanting to solve' that they gave me but eh ur still pretty cool.

Ryno56

70%

Done nothing I view as very sus. Was helpful.

Furtiveglance

65%

Has pet cat, that's pretty good. I agreed with some things from the big post. Seemed quite townish along with rest of their play. Kinda hard to read tho.

Isis

null

Meg

null

I feel like out of the two nulls theres a

76%

one of them is scum.

RCEnigma

26%

Pretty close to null. Still waiting on what 93 means. 162 was kinda good. Actually reading their ISO nothing jumps out at me as particularly scummy but I still get an overall sus vibe. Idk anymore. When I started this post they were up at 41% scum.

Alianna

80%

Same reasons as before 283 but she did adress the changing vote on Goldfish but idk if I buy it

Time to engage in some nightkill analysis.

The mafia has chosen the risky gambit of not killing the confirmed innocent and PR, cat.jpeg, and instead gone for furtive. This tells me:
A. The mafia is unlikely to be Somnus. Yesterday (game time) Somnus was accusing furtive of possibly being mafia. If this was Scum!Somnus preparing for a miselimination why would he kill furtive.

B. Mafia had some reason to want furtive dead more than cat. Did furtive accuse them of being mafia? Does cat townread them? Does cat scumread them and they think keeping cat alive will make them seem less suspicious? Who had the most to gain as scum from this kill? I'm not certain and I'm going to look back over interactions later today.

Part B is what I was thinking about. I kinda thought ryno was sus because i townread them so ryno would want to keep me alive. I said ryno not sus because I wanted to see if that would be interesting, I don't know it was late. But then again what if its someone i scumread and killing me will make them more sus so they didn't. So I guess ryno medium sus.

I haven't read somnus' big wall posts yet but will send read list after maybe.

I'm a little busy at the moment, so I'll try to give reads on the others later, but for now consider the following.
Assume I'm scum. Day 2, furtiveglance both cleared me for my associatives and hard-sussed Somnus. Killing them is the worst decision I could possibly make. Scum!me is in a terrible position and desperately needs people to vote someone that isn't me. I'm not going to silence the person who wants to do that the most.

This post is INCREDIBLY scummy. I think Alianna just explained why they killed furtive.

I wouldn't focus on the nightkill, it's just going to confuse you

ur hot then ur cold
ur yes then ur no
ur in then ur out
ur up then ur down

Even though I do think overanalysing reverse psychology is a waste of time, I think once you know people well enough you could tell what they would do but I don't know anyone here well enough so I'll leave it.

I do think that if it's not Alianna it is ryno. They did back me up in saying I was the friendly neighbour but they basically had to because if i was voted out then everyone else would see that they lied and it was a ryno/RCE pair.

I will say Ryno and RCE did not have a lot of discussion with each other, they talked about if furtives joke was using a 'too scummy to be scum' tactic early on, and when RCE claimed tracker and did a read list they said Ryno had been spewed town.

My gut right now is saying its Ryno56 but I don't know.

This is not someone who was town-reading you. This is someone who would have voted for you today.

3. I don't know your alignment, but let's assume Scum!Ryno for the sake of argument. Your Night 3 options would be Goldfish, Cat, and Somnus.

Goldfish is the only one who openly scum-read you on Day 1, did so on Day 2 while the Enigma drama was going down, and stated on Day 3 that if it's not Alianna, it's you.

Cat was a confirmed PR who at least claimed to have Town-read you early on but walked it back in 594: " I said ryno not sus because I wanted to see if that would be interesting, I don't know it was late. But then again what if its someone i scumread and killing me will make them more sus so they didn't. So I guess ryno medium sus." She then spent the twilight on Day 3 saying it was likely you.

I've been the least vocal about you being scum, although admittedly, I went into Day 4 saying Goldfish is still more likely to flip town out of the two of you. Realistically, the only person Scum!Ryno couldn't afford to kill Night 3, is me. Your best chance of surviving eLo, regardless of alignment, was, and possibly still is through me, just based on how people were reading you.

So the quick summary about why this post pings me super hard:

1.) It's defensive about something no one was talking about
2.) Does Night-Kill analysis matter or not? Which is it?
3.) It is suuuuuuper inaccurate.

tldr: "I can't be mafia because someone who town-read me died" is a terrible point to make, especially since 2 of the 3 night-kills were very much not town-reading you.

[Somnus]

Nightkills are kinda pointless to analyse but you shouldn't completely ignore them, that's my stance. I may as well stop talking if everything I say will either be used to scumread me or make me look suspicious, so I'll simply stop posting

That's not helpful. This is how the game of mafia works. If I were super convinced you were mafia, I would have voted for you already. I tried to create content at the beginning of Day 4 to help me sort both of you and I'm still trying to sort both of you. The more you talk, the better. But saying that whatever people say in eLo doesn't matter and then saying that you'll just not post anymore, is very anti-town, regardless of alignment.

[Somnus]

You lurking and refusing to post and caring solely about your image is what would make me think you’re scum.

[Somnus]

Huh? I'm not tunneling you at all. I'm trying to sort you to make my decision easier and you're shutting down and refusing to co-operate. My earliest posts on Day 4 are questioning Goldfish.

[Somnus]

Furtive was very clear about scumreading Somnus then immediately died, Somnus avoided voting for RCE but gladly jumped on the Meg bandwagon, they also started the bandwagon on Alianna. Now seems like they're trying to set me up as the final miselim. I think it's clear who looks scummy.

1.) Cat was very clear about scumreading Ryno then immediately died

2.) Somnus incorrectly town-read Enigma and was the first one to take Cat's side after the big reveal on Day 2

3.) I didn't happily jump on the Meg bandwagon, although I wasn't opposed to it. We had less than 24 hours left in Day 1 and it was a wagon on someone who I wasn't town-reading.

4.) I was the first vote on Alianna when it took 3 to eliminate. You wanted Alianna dead the whole game (which I don't hold against you. She was widely scum-read)

For the last time: I'm trying to sort you. And if this is how you respond to someone trying to figure out your alignment, then I hope Goldfish is town.

[Somnus]

People asking you questions does not equal tunneling you. You're taking people trying to figure out your alignment as a personal offense. I have no problem with you personally.

[Somnus]

Hence why this discussion is HEAVILY mired with toxicity. Every word has to be taken with the utmost scrutiny.

I haven't seen any toxicity though. I don't know if you're town or mafia, but please don't take offense to anything in the game. No one has even remotely crossed any lines. I think everyone has been pretty respectful.

[Somnus]

Are we all online at the same time! This is kinda epic not gonna lie.

It's a nice change from the way this game has gone, especially for the first 24 hours or so of Day 4. I won't be on for much longer though.

[Somnus]

But I'm not really going to pay any attention to what people say today since everyone is simply incentivised to make a case for themselves, it's just words.

Nightkills are kinda pointless to analyse but you shouldn't completely ignore them, that's my stance. I may as well stop talking if everything I say will either be used to scumread me or make me look suspicious, so I'll simply stop posting

I don't know how much more meaningful discussion we're going to get on Day 4 if Ryno meant what he said in these two posts. I'm having a hard time accepting that this mindsight would come from town at any point in a game, especially in eLo, and especially from someone whose only post in eLo for a while is that they were undecided. It doesn't make any sense to take that approach as town, especially after declaring that you're undecided.

[Somnus]

Oh wow. Some actual content.

I have a couple questions pertaining to Goldfish, but I'd rather give Ryno a chance to give a follow-up if he has one first.

[Somnus]

Alright. I don't know if Ryno is satisfied with that response or not, but considering the pace of eLo so far, I'm not really going to sit back and wait to see if anything further develops from that. I don't want to feel like I'm stepping on any toes here, so if there's more questions/answers to that exchange, feel free to continue it. I had a couple questions for Goldfish, and considering I don't know when she's going to post again, I think it would be best if I just ask now.

1.) I feel like you've played enough mafia elsewhere (don't need to know where or the details) to know that a stale gamestate is beneficial to scum. You've been arguably the most active person in the game (at the very least, by post count, for whatever that's worth). To me, it feels like we got to Day 4 eLo and you mostly dropped off the map. I appreciate you answering my questions early in Day 4, but it feels like you're just waiting to see what will happen without generating any content and that doesn't give me good vibes. It doesn't feel like you're trying to figure out Ryno or I at all.

I could see whoever sitting back and posting a prod-dodge every 24-36 hours if they were scum and just hopping that the game falls into their lap, as all things equal, mafia should win in this state 2 out of 3 times. However, someone else here is town besides me and is just sitting back and seemingly waiting for something to happen. I don't know enough about Ryno's history in mafia and besides my brief familiarity with you, I don't know a ton about yours either. I went through Ryno's ISO in both his other two games on site a couple days ago and he mentions having played a lot of IRL mafia but no prior forum mafia. That was 3 years ago. I don't know if he's played since. But I feel like you know that a stale gamestate here benefits mafia and after having been so active through most of the game...we got to eLo and it's been the exact opposite.

As a last comment on this though: I feel like it's something that Ryno is aware of as well. I don't know how to quote posts from other topics, but in post 705 of Newbie 1926, he states: "I'm perfectly fine with [NAUGHTY BANNED L-WORD REDACTED] DENMON,

inactivity is damaging to town

and I don't town-read him. (post 705 of Newbie 1926)"

2.) At the end of Day 3, you were convinced that mafia was Ryno if Alianna flipped town. The only content that occurred pertaining to Ryno and I after that was me asking you some questions at the start of Day 4 to gauge your reaction, and Ryno saying he was undecided. That's literally the only content that occurred as far as Ryno and I during that window, but when you finally gave a Day 4 game-related thought, you're now leaning scum!Somnus after town-reading me all game and scum-reading Ryno all game.

To be clear, I'm taking myself out of the equation here in my suspicion of this shift. If you had been scum-reading me all game and town-reading Ryno all game and made that comment with Ryno and I reversed, it would give me the same amount of pause (especially because if you're scum in this spot, you "town-reading" me doesn't help me win anyway). There was virtually no content that took place between these two events, but it was apparently enough to shift a town-read you've had all game and a scum-read you've had all game.

[Somnus]

I get that, but I'm neither asking for nor want a vote right now. The lack of votes isn't my concern in the slightest.

[Somnus]

I've played two games of mafia. I'd hardly say that makes me a good scum player. I'm hardly even into the game of mafia as a whole anymore, but that's neither here nor there.

Most of his posts, especially after Day 1, have been 1 line so I don't really see how that matters.

The last part of this post reads as, "Mostly lurking during eLo is too scummy to be scummy". I never subscribe to this mindset and never will.

[Somnus]

Let me know your thoughts after you've done so.

[Somnus]

Asking to either of you because it's a term I'm not familiar with as it pertains to Mafia: does fluffy mean off-topic?

[Somnus]

I just got home. I’ll be on in an hour or so and I’ll post my thoughts.

[Somnus]

Some thought-spew from me here. This might take a few posts. Haven't had a chance to be on here today with it being Easter.

We need to get a move on, the deadline is really soon.

I think if you're being honest with yourself here, I haven't exactly dragged my feet during eLo. I'm not talking about quickly rushing to vote early on in eLo. I'm talking about generating discussion to make the decision easier and to avoid a stale gamestate. Right from the start, I was asking questions and prodding and inviting questions to be asked of me. And while I've gotten some...okayish answers, I've also been met with resistance. And I haven't seen much at all as far as interactions between the two of you, so besides tossing out a gut-feel vote and hoping for the best, there's not really much else I could have done.

[Somnus]

As far as the 2nd part:

Not that I was locked into this going into Day 4, but I made my stance pretty clear and detailed on Day 3 that if it's not Alianna, you were slightly more likely to flip town than Ryno. While I didn't like your early game, overall, your ISO looks ehh...."cleaner" I guess? And it looks more solve-oriented. If you had been towning it up a little bit at any point during eLo, particularly in the first 2-3 days, the game probably would be over by now one way or another. After seeing Ryno's reaction to receiving the tiniest bit of pressure back on Wednesday morning (can you even call it pressure? It wasn't even a vote, it was some questions about some stuff he has posted that I really didn't like/agree with), it struck me as classic scum that was scared that they were finally facing pressure, didn't know how to respond, and essentially shut down. I've seen it plenty of times in other games that I've read. I didn't want to rush to a vote at that point, but I likely would have come back later on Wednesday or Thursday and voted for him...

...the reason I didn't is because it has felt during this entire eLo that you got here, felt like you were in a pretty comfortable spot, and were just waiting to see what would happen. I mentioned it before, but at no point during Day 4 has it felt like you were trying to sort Ryno or I. I get that IRL happens and can limit time, but someone here is playing the "lazy scum" approach. Let me explain.

When I say "lazy scum", I don't mean it insultingly. I mean it as a viable tactic. It could come from someone who has never been in this spot and doesn't want to screw up and get caught, and it can also come from scum who feels that a stale gamestate is their best course of action (because like...it is. At any point in a game, a stale gamestate benefits scum). Someone is playing lazy scum here and someone is playing town that just hopes things work out and a win falls into their lap, and it hasn't made my decision any easier, and it certainly hasn't made me want to dangle my vote out there after pushing the overwhelming majority of the content that we've seen in Day 4.

[Somnus]

The few times that you both started interacting with each other, it quickly was just abandoned without any progression. When you're trying to solve the game, particularly in this spot, explaining your thought process and your reasoning isn't just for your benefit. Perhaps more importantly, it's for the benefit of the other person who is town. I get why whoever is mafia would take that approach. I don't get why the other person who is town would though. And so when I don't really see that happening from either side, it's frustrating and it's hard to make a decision that's based on little more than a guess.

So with all of that said, right now, yeah I think it's probably slightly more likely that it's Ryno than it is you, but I need to hear from him again. And if he's willing to explain his thought-process of where he's at and why he thinks you're mafia, ok, then I still have time to hear him out with an open mind. It's not like I'm locked into the solve considering what little I've had to work with in eLo. And if after everything that has transpired during eLo, he's somehow at a place where he thinks it's me, then I guess that makes my decision easy.

[Somnus]

My perspective is a funny one. I was widely townread earlier in the game. I expected to come into ELo as the deciding vote between you two. Somehow you've both flipped it around on me, and one of you is going to kick yourself for that. Trust the reads of all the other townies who townread me, and wonder to yourself: why have scum kept me alive? Remember that scum are trying to set up a miselim.

The biggest red flag about Somnus is the Furtive nightkill. Furtive was certain that Somnus was scum. Either Somnus killed furtive or Goldfish killed furtive trying to frame Somnus, but that seems incredibly risky. The optimal kill for Goldfish was Cat.

Goldfish has been barely active today, but reading their other game, it seems like this is fairly normal for them. It's also possible they are scum sitting back and letting me hang myself. The main evidence in favour of Goldfish is the interaction with RCE. It seems like scum trying to get town to claim early. If that was scum interacting with scum then it's a very clever play.

I'm undecided between the two of you, but I've been leaning Somnus since the start. Seems like we're all holding back our vote which doesn't help me decide.

Thoughts:

1.) I'm having a hard time believing you thought you were going to be the deciding vote heading into eLo. Heading into Night 3, you were quite literally the unanimous scum read by all of the remaining players: myself, Goldfish, and Cat. It's probably been a good 2 weeks since you got some early townreads from a couple of players based on the limited content we had in the early parts of Day 1. I didn't really understand the couple of early town-reads of you, and I wasn't one of them. Most of your ISO on Days 1 and 3 read to me as:

"Player X said something completely innocuous and NAI? Very scummy!"

And as far as Day 4, the one post a day except for what was an objectively bad reaction to being questioned on Wednesday, certainly hasn't helped. Goldfish's inactivity during Day 4 and the lack of interactions between the two of you hasn't helped me either.

Isis town-read me the whole game while she was around (and never mentioned you once). Cat had Goldfish and I above you in her initial reads-list and after very briefly considering Scum!Goldfish during Day 3 twilight, seemed very convinced that you were mafia. Goldfish quickly realized early in this game that Scum!Somnus is not present with us in this game. Whether she realized that because she's informed or because she made an accurate read is TBD. Point being, you're not even remotely as widely town-read in this game as you keep trying to make it appear.

2.) If you're as widely town-read as you keep insisting you are (you're not, but I'll go along with it since you believe you are), why would mafia keep you alive as a mis-lim? Mafia doesn't keep widely town-read players around as mis-lims. Widely town-read players are by definition, nearly impossible to mis-lim. They night-kill them. So I know you didn't mean to make yourself look suspicious when you said this, and I'll try and write it off as just bad logic rather than blatantly dishonest, but the point you're trying to sell would actually make you look worse, not better.

3.) I have fully deconstructed your obsession with faulty Night-Kill analysis already in Day 4, but if you insist, we can revisit. You were town-read by literally 1 of the 3 people night-killed. I was town-read by 2 of them. So what? That neither clears me as town, nor does it make you mafia. It's a bad case to make, both as town and as scum, and I can tell it's not something you're going to consider reflecting on in this game, but for your own good, in future games, I suggest you try and escape this kind of Level 0 thinking regardless of alignment. It's going to be very easy to manipulate you via Night Kills when you're town, if not outright frame you. And as mafia, it's going to look like a really lazy and low-hanging-fruit push (as it potentially does here).

Additionally, it's hypocritical, considering Cat was kept alive when she was pretending to town-read you (she walked it back and explained it during Day 3 twilight) and then as soon as you became her biggest scum-read, she then died. On top of all of that, it was something you immediately attributed to Alianna on Day 3. Nowhere during Day 3 did you mention my name in regards to the Night Kill. That was mysteriously a new Ryno development as soon as we got to eLo.

If your biggest case against someone is something that you don't know that they even did rather than the things they have verifiably said and done in the game, as well as something that could just as easily be attributed to you, if not more so, that should give you some pause and some self-reflection. I explained on Day 3 how that bizarre Night Kill, more than anyone, would most likely benefit you, and I wasn't even voting for you on Day 3. If I were scum, it's the kind of lazy push I could make on someone rather than the things they have verifiably said and done.

As Goldfish pointed out, the pretend reads-list by Enigma looks very much like he's trying to protect you. To me, it looks like he was trying to set up Goldfish, furtive, and I as potential mis-lims without committing to "Goldfish and Somnus are scum". And potentially, if he had gotten his way and mis-limmed furtive on Day 1, to set up Alianna. I don't know. That's what it looks like to me. Should I use that to build a case against you and clear Goldfish when it's something you didn't say or do?

Goldfish would potentially benefit from leaving Cat alive for another day since Cat was town-reading her, but I'm certainly not going to use that and try to push that as a reason for Goldfish is mafia. I have verifiable concerns about Goldfish that I've already talked about, and none of it has to do with speculating on things that I can't prove she has said or done. Again, that's the kind of lazy case that mafia might do rather than exploring what someone has verifiably said and done in a game.

As a bonus: In all 3 games I've played on this site, there has been a confirmed town power role going into Night 2. Here's the brief history of my night-kills as scum on this site:

Newbie 2087 - Night 1: I killed a mason Night 1.

Newbie 2087 - Night 2: My partner got to E-1 on Day 2 and claimed mason. This outed the other mason in a counter-claim. After my partner was executed Day 2, I killed the other mason.

Newbie 2087 - Night 3: There were no town power roles left and I killed one of the 3 remaining Vanilla Townies.

Newbie 2090 - Night 1: I rolecopped someone who ended up being the doctor and killed a vanilla townie while trying to hit a PR. The townie originally suspected me early on in Day 1, but by the end of Day 1, they had hammered someone else and were very suspicious of furtive. I don't night-kill based on who currently or previously suspected me.

Newbie 2090 - Night 2: I had my partner kill the confirmed doctor, even though we had the tracker narrowed down to 2 people and there was a pretty good chance at that point that the tracker could get a guilty on my partner (it did).

Whenever I've had a chance to kill a confirmed town power role, I have. Keeping a confirmed town power role alive during a night phase isn't in my playbook.

4.) Goldfish was quite active in the other game, and has been for the majority of this one until Day 4. If you just pulled up post-count from her previous game and didn't actually read through any of the game (as it appears you probably did), you'd miss out on the fact that she replaced into the game very very late into Day 1, and the game ended after maybe a page worth of posts on Day 3. For how long she was in that game, she was very active.

[Somnus]

If either of you are online let me know, real time interaction helps me sort people.

It's getting kind of late, I'll be online for the next few hours and then I probably won't be around till an hour or so before the deadline so I don't know if I'll vote now or then, but if you have more questions for me ask them soon ish so I'll be able to answer them.

I've got about an hour or so and then won't be back on the PC until around 7 PM eastern.

[Somnus]

If either of you are online let me know, real time interaction helps me sort people.

It's getting kind of late, I'll be online for the next few hours and then I probably won't be around till an hour or so before the deadline so I don't know if I'll vote now or then, but if you have more questions for me ask them soon ish so I'll be able to answer them.

Kind of wish I had pried for more information from Cat on your playstyle while she was still around.

[Somnus]

If either of you are online let me know, real time interaction helps me sort people.

It's getting kind of late, I'll be online for the next few hours and then I probably won't be around till an hour or so before the deadline so I don't know if I'll vote now or then, but if you have more questions for me ask them soon ish so I'll be able to answer them.

Kind of wish I had pried for more information from Cat on your playstyle while she was still around.

Yeah I'm still wishing she was alive to back me up lol, she would know I'm town.

Explain. Any particular reasons?

[Somnus]

Somnus I have a question for you, you've previously said that you prefer not having people make massive wall posts of analysis as town, and also that you find that very easy to fake as scum, day 4 and the end of 3 you've started making a lot of big wall posts. Is there a reason for you doing that when you've previously said you don't like it.

Note this is not intended as a scum accusation it's just something that didn't entirely make sense which stood pit to me and I'd like a reason for.

I don't like to unless I feel it's necessary. It's not something I refuse to do, but after re-reading my entire 1st game back in February, I was putting myself to sleep with some of my overly-long posts. It feels like I'm giving people homework, but if I have a lot of things to say about a person or a particular post, I'd rather do that than break it up into 10 shorter posts.

[Somnus]

If either of you are online let me know, real time interaction helps me sort people.

It's getting kind of late, I'll be online for the next few hours and then I probably won't be around till an hour or so before the deadline so I don't know if I'll vote now or then, but if you have more questions for me ask them soon ish so I'll be able to answer them.

Kind of wish I had pried for more information from Cat on your playstyle while she was still around.

Yeah I'm still wishing she was alive to back me up lol, she would know I'm town.

Explain. Any particular reasons?

As in reasons why she would townread me?

Yes.

[Somnus]

I'll cut through and make this simple. I know I'm town. Somnus, if you are town, then you've gone very badly wrong. If you are scum, then you're going to great efforts to make a case against me, hoping to convince Goldfish. I'm leaning towards the latter, and it seems like it's working.

If Goldfish is town, they are not really helping... Sorry Goldfish, that's nothing personal, but you haven't really contributed much. I don't really know what sort of a case you have for either of us. If Goldfish is scum, they are riding to an easy win. I can see that being the case.

I wish both of you weren't going to wait until the very end of the deadline to vote. That doesn't help. But I would like to get more of a sense on what Goldfish is thinking.

I never said I was going to wait until the deadline. I was waiting for more content from either of you during eLo and for the most part, it never really happened.

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Give me something though. You don't have to type a novel, but a couple of the traits Cat would recognize and how you tend to play as scum.

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Give me something though. You don't have to type a novel, but a couple of the traits Cat would recognize and how you tend to play as scum.

Ok,

As scum I wouldn't have claimed at E-2, And I probably would have fakeclaimed a PR in that situation (another thing on that point if I was scum with RCE don't you think I would have claimed tracker since I was the first of us to get close to elimination and the scum probably discussed the fakeclaim together)

The ACPA townblock definitely wouldn't have happened with scum!me, it just looks too suspicious and scum me is pretty cautious.

General tone is a thing.

As scum I'm a lot more confident then as town, being hedgy with my reads and randomly going back on stuff is a town trait for me, scum me likes to come up with more made up reads and analysis and then stick to them.

I'd say that scum doesn't always make the textbook play of claiming tracker in that spot. The most recently completed newbie game, the two mafia were eliminated back to back on Days 1 and 2, and the one on Day 1 claimed VT.

Were your reads hedgy in this game? I'd have to go back and look. I don't recall them being so.

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I guess. I mean I kind of find full reads-lists pretty cringe. Like once in Day 1 is fine. I feel like it's something where people will look at you kind of funny if you do it several times a day on Day 1 outside of the Newbie Queue.

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I'm really sorry too. Don't hate me.

VOTE: Ryno56

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Thank-you and good game, Ryno. You two didn't make it easy by any stretch. No one in this game really did.

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Only other eLo I was in was over in like 10 posts, which was actually longer than I was expecting, considering both townies were tunneling on each other hard late Day 3. This was rough.

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I'll post my overall thoughts at some point when the thread re-opens.

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I'll let her answer that, but before I dip out until much later on today, I'd say:

1.) I agree with the fact that you putting Enigma at E-1 probably should have given you a lot more townie credit than it did.

2.) Disagree that the furtive nightkill makes you look good. I've either night-killed or been a part of 8 nightkills after somehow rolling mafia in all 3 games of mafia I've played, and more of them have town-read me than not. All 3 players in my 1st game that I night-killed town-read me, and 2 of the 3 nightkills in this game were townreading me when I killed them. It's one of those things I said as scum but it was the truth: Night-kill analysis is a pretty small piece of the puzzle and in my opinion, using it as a sole of primary case against someone rather than the things that you can prove they've said and done, doesn't really hold up. Again, just my humble opinion, but I enjoy the strategic discussion all the same.

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I checked the wiki to see if there's a name for that gambit where you leave alive a confirmed town PR and kill someone you know is a vanilla townie instead and didn't find it. I might be on to something here. For whatever it's worth, while it was strategic, in my defense, I also thought it would be really really funny. Enigma's style kind of rubbed off on me there, although I imagine he was cursing me out when he saw it...or laughing hysterically.

Anyway, I'll pop back in later today after the thread has been locked/unlocked. Good chattin' with you and good game.

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Somnus have you set some kind of site record for gettinn mafia 3 times in a row?

On mobile right now, so I can’t do my one, big, annoying final post with my thoughts, but it is pretty crazy. Getting mafia 3 times in a row is an uncommon occurrence in general, but I’m sure it happens to a number of players every year. First 3 games though? That probably hasn’t happened too often on the site. I have no doubt I’m not the first, but when I look through player wikis, it’s hard to find someone who was even mafia their first 2 games.

As someone who overall does enjoy playing as mafia, it’s honestly exhausting to get nothing but mafia roles. Would prefer to get one as a rare treat every 4-5 games, and it’s part of the reason I need to step away for a couple months.

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Asking to either of you because it's a term I'm not familiar with as it pertains to Mafia: does fluffy mean off-topic?

I like to keep a lot of the tricks of the trade close to the vest, but I’ll just say for now that this was the most sinister and diabolical post I made all game and knew exactly what I was doing when I posted it.

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The poem to end the game was flashy stuff too, thumbs up lol.

Lyrics, my good man. Lyrics. And you were great, as well as entertaining. Post 114 was one of my favorites all game.

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I wanted to post the gif of Dr. Evil tryin’ to get a hug, Alianna, but I’m too lazy for that on mobile. Sorry for leading the charge for your execution.

Hope absolutely none of you take this the wrong way, but when I play again in June or July, I can’t play with any of y’all. You’re all just gonna vote me out Day 1 no matter what I do until I prove that me getting a green role PM isn’t a glitch that means the game needs to be rerolled (that happened to me in my first game. I was supposed to be a VT).

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I posted a little about it in dead thread but we spent a good chunk of day 1 trying to figure out how we needed to handle you because you just oozed town out of the gate. I'll get a better post together after my shift ends in the A.M.

I'm still kicking myself over the self-vote. I don't know what I was thinking. It wasn't even a gambit, I was just bored.

Don't ever change.

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Alright. I'm pretty mentally exhausted so I'm just going to do a quick word-vomit spew here and then duck out of here:

First of all, good game to all 8 of you. And thank-you to Mala for modding.

Not an easy game whatsoever. While I like playing as mafia, you'll see how bitchy I was in the mafia thread right off the bat about getting a mafia role yet again. I was in a shit mood through most of this game as a result. It's not supposed to be this hard to get a freakin' town role in the game of mafia. You know the funny thing? I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy playing as mafia overall more than town, but I don't think any of you understand how much work and pressure there is in being mafia literally every game.

For once, being in B2 was to our benefit. This is the block in the grid that RadiantCowbells was concerned with being too town-sided when he created NewD3. However, in 2 of the 3 blocks in column B, Enigma's tracker claim is instantly being countered, and if you look at the gamestate at that point, he's likely not winning that counter-claim. And while a mafia member going down on Day 1 is a disaster for Team Red in any game, it's a nearly impossible to recover-from blunder in a 9 player game. So being in this incredibly tough block worked out to our advantage.

I like playing with people who make the game fun. Enigma was aces and he did all of the heavy lifting on Day 1. He absolutely dragged my bitchy dead-weight self through Day 1 and did all of the hard stuff until he went down.

Night-actions played a huge part in this. Column B is rough on mafia for a number of reasons. While rolecop is a fun role, it's pretty underpowered in games that almost always end on Day 3 or Day 4, even if you successfully cop someone Night 1. Hilariously enough, I still don't know if Enigma was jailed Night 1 or if he got a result on Cat, but that's who we checked. We both agreed on killing Isis Night 1, suspecting a PR. He originally wanted to rolecop furtive, but I talked him into the pool of PRs being Isis, Cat, and Ryno, and he correctly chose Cat. But again, Day 2 happened so fast that I actually don't even know if he got his result for Night 1 or was jailed lol.

I think inactivity hurt town tremendously on Day 4 (as well as too much focus on one of the three night-kills and almost no attention being spent on things that I verifiably had said and done throughout the game). Don't take any of that personally, Goldfish or Ryno, because you two otherwise made things difficult for me. But the fact that the mafia member was the one leading discussion and the two town members were pretty much sitting back and waiting for something to happen allowed me to control the narrative during all of Day 4.

I'm still going to be around and reading games for fun, but I need a break. If you haven't played as mafia, especially in games that you badly want to win, it's hard to describe all of the things that you face as mafia in this game that you'd never have to worry about as town. Playing as mafia is fun, but it's far from a carefree and relaxing experience. So while playing as mafia is fun, playing as mafia every single game is not. But I'd like to maybe even get into a game or two as a spectator from the start. I don't know how to go about doing that. All I know is that I'm not playing again until June or July.

One day we're gonna be mason buds, Alianna, and it's going to be epic.

I can't think of anything else, so once again, good game to everyone and best of luck in your upcoming games. I'll still be around.

p-edit: I legit hadn't encountered the term "fluffy" in mafia, but I was pretty sure what you both meant and just wanted to pour gasoline on the pile. One of my unofficial rules is that I don't do alts or hydras. Lol. Good game to you, Goldfish. I enjoy playing with you as well.