Newbie 2114: Life Imitates Art...in Memes! -- End

[Alisae]

I think the premise is flawed
I don't think it's impossible to scramble 5 votes onto Aureal

You are the one who's avoidong the Aureal vote, not me.
and our masons are also TRing Aureal iirc?

I am voting Aureal?
I'm confused what you mean here

[Alisae]

Kawaii is voting Aureal and Andante is confbiased
me you kanna dragon are 4 votes
patch will be the 5th.

[Alisae]

I actually have problems with how Andante has played the conftown position but I will save them for postgame

[Alisae]

or if she asks me

[Alisae]

I think the premise is flawed
I don't think it's impossible to scramble 5 votes onto Aureal

You are the one who's avoidong the Aureal vote, not me.
and our masons are also TRing Aureal iirc?

I am voting Aureal?
I'm confused what you mean here

As I said I might need more sleep.

locktown honestly

[Alisae]

I think the premise is flawed
I don't think it's impossible to scramble 5 votes onto Aureal

You are the one who's avoidong the Aureal vote, not me.
and our masons are also TRing Aureal iirc?

this post is so wild coming from dragon's if he's a wolf
it never happens

[Alisae]

You are third person calling me lock town this game, I'm honored!

You make it really easy when you say things like I'm avoiding the Aureal vote

[Alisae]

i also forgot to reply to this earlier 1048
gotta say i am very impressed by your scumgame! on a quick skim though i do think you're a bit more null there and here i think you're just town
as for aureal... it's hard to discern cause i don't know the context of the other game :T

i think she got takes on people quicker in the other game?

I think how she starts there vs where she starts here are different but she's also replacing in.
I feel like the way Aureal was going about her reads in there where as what she's doing here are different?

[Alisae]

This is my first time actually having to sort Aureal, so maybe I'm just imagining things.
Maybe the best way to put it is here she feels a lot more performative where as in there she's a lot more natural?

[Alisae]

did you just hammer aureal lol

no i think she's at 4 votes
you should though

[Alisae]

ya that's hammer lmfao

[Alisae]

patch locktown

[Alisae]

Ali gets the Aureal
Kanna gets the Elpis

An easy win for the Kannasae

[Alisae]

kanna patch dragon
bewolkt
aureal elpis

[Alisae]

i s2g if ur a villager

[Alisae]

Aureal if it's not me who is it

[Alisae]

If you're a villager now is your best time to actually put out content

[Alisae]

I'll be lurking and play my hand later

[Alisae]

Please feel free to discuss as much as ya like

[Alisae]

VC 1.17

Another Gallery-Goer Studying a Sculpture
Another Stefan Draschan photo

Aureal (5):

Alisae, KawaiiKame

, Kanna, DragonEater70, patchwork -- ELIM
Kanna (1): bewolkt
Alisae (1):

Aureal

Not Voting (2):

Elpis,

Andante

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate

Deadline: March 13 at 1:00 PM US Eastern time.

Countdown: (expired on 2023-03-13 10:00:00)

Mod Notes

• Combined ffery/GiF ISO for vote counts and mod posts here.
  
• Let me know if Vote Counts are in error
  
• I'm pretty much recovered from Covid, and hopefully game moderation will be less bumpy going forward!
  
• 

An Elimination Has Been Achieved!

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

I have nothing to say to you

[Alisae]

You're probably going to want to declare intent.
I have things I want to say, but now is not the time.

[Alisae]

I have nothing to say to you

It's cause you scum.
Town never ignore other town people for fun.

I think my reactions to your posts as well as your posts speak for yourself

[Alisae]

The masons in particular should be the ones using their vote sparingly here.
You're conftown. Use that to your advantage and force the other players to vote instead of you. You get more information that way.

[Alisae]

actually I think I've seen enough.
VOTE: Dragon
let's

[Alisae]

let's see if I can identify your partner

[Alisae]

This is a townie start to the day.
I would be impressed if this was faked. Mostly because it looks like they actually do care about solving the game.
They're looking at ISOs and trying to figure out a read here.
ontop of that, Patch's hammer yesterday is not something that wolves actually do. Wolf!Patch probably just hammers and does nothing else.
Oh also more dubious slots are pushing them so that makes me want to trust them more

ohhh what the fuck

don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though

tbh i had wanted to give aero the benefit of the doubt as their behavior lined up with busy town and they seemed generally hurried and stuff and teaching can be stressful but yeah that slot is not looking so good

lemme see who andante is scumreading

not gonna lie, I kinda still want to yeet bewolt

I typed up and considered like 4 different pairings and tried to make sense of all of them, and I honestly hated all of them and none of them made enough sense. Starting to feel like I might be bad at this. I tried approaching Aureal/Alisae as like a entry hate tactic to distance, but that doesn't seem right. I tried looking at Dragon/Patch for similar reasons, they've been up and down a lot, but that seems bad too. The expressions of Bewolkt/Aureal don't have much opposing them, so I think that **could** be a thing, but I also genuinely do trust Aureal to be town, so I don't even feel comfortable there either. I could express some garbage take without support like Bewolkt/Patch or Kanna/Alisae, the latter of the two being buddy-buddy enough to possibly make sense, but otherwise, I don't feel I have as much to provide here as I would like to. I am sorry.

don’t be sorry!!!

not gonna lie, so much of what Alisae was poating I was like “that’s just flat out spamming at this point” and I find it real interesting she suddenly starts caring about bewolkt when someone else voices suspicion there, yet when I was pushing it was “I don’t care”

the solve is probably just bewolkt/alisae

cause aureal really seems like town

yeah it's probably just bewolkt/alisae at this point
lemme see early bewo aero interacitons

VOTE: bewo

Alisae
I think they have a potential association with Kanna. They came in and started to move the conversation to others. She has doubted everyone else in play (Aureal, Elpis, Dragon, patch, me) but not Kanna and her response to my accusations on her are things like "this is so bad", "nooooo", "not buying this". I would like to see some real thoughts on why that doesn't make sense.
Also not a fan of how they talk like they're showing others how to play the game and that it's so obvious, something that also Maestro was doing. In this case I think it's sort of working because other players are also not really questioning her and her motives.
After pushing mostly Aureal and to some extent also me, then they're also like "I'm not picking sides", "I'm open minded to be wrong". On the other posts I don't really feel that they are not very certain of their comments and it feels to me that they're pushing the conversation towards where they want but at the same time keeping their options open so that after the flip they didn't look like they were pushing so much.

ehhhh they could just both be bussing to try to look unaligned

[Alisae]

I'm mostly looking at timestamps here and how the posts are spaced out via time.
Seems like they're doing the work

[Alisae]

crying sobbing

I was rereading the game during the night and I don’t think it’s elpis. elpis has been asking questions in thread which I feel like could’ve been asked in the scum pt if they were scum. like this post

I also want to add, I have no clue what PR means. I'm going to the glossary at the moment to look, but a lot of these posts I've missed seem a little hard to understand without that proper context

is maybe this is a townslip. pretty easy to fake, yes, but I’m not sure many newb!scum would *think* to fake it. and if it’s something as important as what a pr is, I’m sure the other scum would’ve told them. as far as I’m aware, elpis is the only brand new player here. and rereading their play, I think they’re doing very very good and maybe that’s just like out of the scum range of a newb scum?

I want to townlock them

my feelings about dragon still haven’t changed. I reread their interactions with aureal and do believe dragon just misread posts/missed context and things snowballed from there — nothing deeper than that.

the hammer vote from patch did kind of ping me though, like what does this mean?

putting a VOTE: aureal in case someone unvotes before mod comes

hopefully flip gives good info, i still think bewo/aureal may be paired but i'm gonna take night a a time to reread and actually think

I can imagine someone in their position thinking “I don’t hate this lim and it looks like it’s happening so I want to hammer” in which case they should’ve just said so but instead their reasoning is “in case someone unvotes before mod comes”. This doesn’t match with the fact they thought someone hammered aureal already and alisae clearly saying just before aureal was at 4 votes. Also their vote unvote vote was kinda cute the first time I saw it but maybe it’s goofy in an offbeat way

about alisae, euuurghhh e did strongly ping town and kinda pushed all my right buttons yesterday but today they go into suspects pool. aero *was* sort of just the right amount of null-and-acting-towny-but-not-really that i can see coming from scum

[bewo, patch, alisae] holds all the scum

this elimination pool is terrible
I genuinely think you exploited my entrance into the game to suit your own needs and it's weird how I tried to get you to explain why I'm town to people but you never actually did, or wanted to.

[Alisae]

Ok, so Kawaii is absolutely locktown due to Andante's confirmed mason role.

Aureal not only got hammered while I was asleep, but hammered off by Patch? I don't think I will ever trust anything they say anymore.

Though, I absolutely feel validated in my trust in Aureal, she was towning the whole time, so with respect, my eyes are on everyone that was on that wagon, ESPECIALLY Patch and Alisae. I'm so bothered that a hammer occurred while I was asleep.

This is town who hates what occurred in front of him and was powerless to stop it.
Tho you're new so some words of advice: We didn't have much time left on the clock. The time isn't infinite, if it runs out and we don't have an elim. I was posting around the time and I think there was like, 22 hours left on clock? It's better to elimination someone rather than no one. Also I don't think you should really be fretting to much over things that aren't in your control. But ya it's fine that you're upset that it happened

[Alisae]

As for the rest of this, yeah, Patch's hammer seems wildly weird, and I **really** hold heavy suspicion over Alisae.

I do also agree that Bewolkt is on the table, but tbh they feel a lot more neutral to me now that two high scum behaviors have sprung from this.

It's not weird
you just don't like it
there's a difference

[Alisae]

I was gonna say this earlier before maintenance, but--

I'm going with what Aureal thought, since she had my support and I trust her judgement, along with my own thoughts up to this point.

VOTE: Alisae

If anything significant changes to affect this, I'll unvote, but I feel confident about this for the moment.

Just because someone flips villager does not make them right.
It only means that they want to be right and that they're honest.

[Alisae]

THIS
This is just openwolfing

Aureal was a

Vanilla Townie

Night One begins now and will end on March 14 at 8 PM US Eastern Time.

Please note, US Daylight Savings Time is in effect as of today.

If you have a night action please send it to GuyInFreezer and me by that time.

Countdown: (expired on 2023-03-14 17:00:00)

VOTE: Alisae

So it's Alisae being a powerwolf after all.
Sorry for limming you Aureal, but at least now I KNOW who's scum.

Ya know?
It's really funny how you go from "Alisae is obvious town" to "Alisae is a powerwolf" just because the person I pushed flipped Villager?
Like, usually when people see something like that, they take a minute to think, maybe talk to the player in question to see what was going on?
Like, the fuck you want me to do? Aureal was making it really hard to see eye to eye and they just thought I was a wolf because they couldn't tell the difference between what my wolf play is and what my town play is. They're both pretty different beasts and I felt like she would be able to see that. It never occurred to me that she couldn't identify the difference.

But you're a wolf, so this is just sinister.
Town don't quote a votecount for their day start and then immediately go on the offensive, quoting everything they post and saying why its a wolf post.
That's not town who wants to be right.
It's unnatural, and it comes from a wolf with an agenda.

don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though

It is Alisae.
The evidence is this:
Both Andante and Aureal weren't voting Aureal, so there was at least 1 scum on the wagon. I honestly think it was 2, because if Aureal was indeed town then there's really no reason to suspect Elpis, and very little reason to suspect bewollt.
So again, probably 2 scum on the wagon, and it's not me or Kawaii. From your POV it's not you either so ot must be Alisae and Kanna.
Furthermore, Alisae was seriously powerwolfing yesterday ever since she joined. I can't believe she's a VT after she led this miselim. That would require us to have thw most passive mafia that ever existed, and I kinda doubt that.
Third point, mafia killed Andante who was the main person suspecting Alisae.

I was thinking there were 2 wolves on the wagon as well! That's quite odd. We can both agree on this ig but I got a feeling you're using this truth for more nefarious purposes.
Obviously I think the comment about accusing me of powerwolfing is fake and you're also not really pushing a read but rather a fact.

Now see Town
Town want to be right. They generally will push reads.
Wolves on the other hand, want to look good. They want their pushes to be ironclad. This is why they love to push facts, because when the facts turn out to be wrong, they can just scapegoat the facts. I actually think you're already setting yourself up to do this with how you mention you don't believe I'm a VT after doing this. And again, town can be wrong, but it seemed like the idea that I could be wrong never crossed your mind.
Also attaching the night kill to me is a stretch. If I'm a wolf, it's a lot easier to just play to Andante. The whole day phase is probably different and as a wolf I would LOVE to get on the goodside of a delsuional conftownie that thinks that her word is the law and that what she wants must happen otherwise you're the bad guy. Man I would LOVE to manipulate a townie like that, it would practically just be free.
Nonono, I think you submitted this night kill for this purpose. This push reeks planned and calculated.

You're not pushing a read, you're just voting for the person you want to kill.

VOTE: bewo

Okay everyone, I think Patch is Alisae's scum partner.
They just talked about it's obviously Alisae and now they vote bewo?

You're spinning this to be as wolfy as possible when there's nothing there.
You're exploiting Patch for your own nefarious purposes.

This is not a town response.

IT'S AN IMAGE
ITS NOT TOWN OR WOLF
ITS NULL
THERE'S NOTHING THERE

Again, attacking the post because every post must be a wolf post

Ok, so Kawaii is absolutely locktown due to Andante's confirmed mason role.

Aureal not only got hammered while I was asleep, but hammered off by Patch? I don't think I will ever trust anything they say anymore.

Though, I absolutely feel validated in my trust in Aureal, she was towning the whole time, so with respect, my eyes are on everyone that was on that wagon, ESPECIALLY Patch and Alisae. I'm so bothered that a hammer occurred while I was asleep.

You are 100% correct in your suspicion. I am also sorry for beind deceived but I hope you can see how.

Obvious buddying and being "decieved" is just fake.

VC 1.17

Another Gallery-Goer Studying a Sculpture
Another Stefan Draschan photo

Aureal (5):

Alisae, KawaiiKame

, Kanna, DragonEater70, patchwork -- ELIM
Kanna (1): bewolkt
Alisae (1):

Aureal

Not Voting (2):

Elpis,

Andante

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate

Deadline: March 13 at 1:00 PM US Eastern time.

Countdown: (expired on 2023-03-13 10:00:00)

Mod Notes

• Combined ffery/GiF ISO for vote counts and mod posts here.
  
• Let me know if Vote Counts are in error
  
• I'm pretty much recovered from Covid, and hopefully game moderation will be less bumpy going forward!
  
• 

An Elimination Has Been Achieved!

This is such a weird fucking post? It doesn't do anything at all except pool Alisae together with all the conftown players. Which is really freaking weird.

Well obviously because it's not for you! I posted it for myself!
I mean after I posted it I realized "wow, this is worthless"
but it's weird cause every post must be a wolf post right?

I think this confirms Alisae as scum?

again it's an image. A pretty funny one too
I'm scum because I posted an image about how I'm skeptical of your posts?

@Kanna, Kawaii, please vote Alisae.

Also we should have just let Andante pick the lim yesterday.

You want to rush this.
I sense fear.

I have nothing to say to you

It's cause you scum.
Town never ignore other town people for fun.

I don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Alisae]

I don't understand your reasoning, and I don't like your obnoxious total ignorance of his attempts to discuss with you at all. I can't understand your rationale here whatsoever, but you're being intentionally annoying and that's terribly frustrating.

I guess it just feels like you're being antagonizing in order to make people dislike you, but why would scum do that, and why would town do that? It makes so little sense in either respect, especially if you want to scumhunt and be respected on it.

I don't mind the position I'm in.
I actually liked being fos'd by other players. Wolves will come to me and it allows me to gauge if the person is trying to form an actual read or if they're just nefarious.
I think that image accurate describes my reaction. I have no intention to talk. I fail to see innocence and the desire to be right in what he's doing. I read the previous day as him exploiting the situation for his own goals when he does a push like this. I literally look at his posts and go "how does a village write this?" but I totally and 100% see "This is a wolf that writes this" and I'm pretty sure I pushed did a push a lot similar to what Dragon is during my first few wolf games as a newer player. He's pushing me in bad faith and this isn't a read. If anything, it's to bait him into overextending and I think it worked? Like, he's saying "ali is confscum they posted an image" like it's a serious thought.

I don't talk to wolves. I have nothing to gain from talking to Dragon. Dragon is not going to willing go to the dead thread, he's not going to townbin me, and honestly, I don't even want him to townbin me if I think he's just a wolf. He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

[Alisae]

Are you actually serious right now Alisae

You're voting DRAGON of all the people in the pool currently?

This tells me you don't understand what I'm doing.
Usually that's a town thing.
I also expect in your position as a newer player to scumread what you don't understand.
But you know what you should really do when you're in a situation where you don't understand what the other player is doing and what's going on?

Think it over. Try to read what's going on. Usually if you're in a situation where the person you're scumreading is just doing things you don't understand, there's a chance that they're just town.

[Alisae]

I think the solve is {Kanna, Dragon} btw but I think I could be wrong on Kanna being a wolf here. Somethings with Ircher I feel like just don't really add up but the guy doesn't have a lot going on in his iso so I'm not sure what to do with it the current moment.

Dragons has to be flipped if I end up being flipped though.
You can't let him get away with it!

[Alisae]

I genuinely think 1208 is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.

Bewolkt is still town last phase for the reads they put out and Kanna throwing them back to the suspect pool has me super skeptical of her.
Kanna trying to make Patch's hammer look goofy and worse also strikes me as odd.
Like I look at Kanna's fos pool and I just see 3 villagers

[Alisae]

Bewolkt seemed like they are doing their own thing and are trying to form reads.
Patch looks like they want to solve.
Elpis is town being buddied by Dragon here and their interaction with Kanna about how Kanna was trying to argue that Elpis is misreppy is not a good look for Kanna.

So it just must be {Dragon, Kanna} here

[Alisae]

Do you honesyly expect me (or any of the other townies) to believe that you are scumreading me after you repeatedly said how townie I was on D1? Sorry but no.

People's reads can change. They're not something that once you say a read it stays that way forever.
And with me
My reads are like the wind. I'm extremely flexible, it's some of the best parts of my gameplay. I will feel one way one minute and another way another minute but as a wolf? It's completely the opposite! Mostly because I have an agenda and I know what I want.

But no you're just discrediting me here and you're not approaching my slot in good faith.

Like your argument is that just because I TR'd you in one day phase I'm not allowed to find your questionable posts questionable in the next phase?

WOLF

[Alisae]

I wasn't locktowning you at any point yesterday. And I was saying repeatedly that while you were giving town vibes you just as easily could be powerwolfing.

This was towards the ladder end of the day.

And Alisae is really really townie IMO.

if really really townie isn't obvious town I don't know what is.

I can't be mad.
You're just a wolf playing the situation to meet your own needs.

If you do get my flip though, there will be consequences

[Alisae]

You're voting DRAGON of all the people in the pool currently?

They are high on the drug called powerwolfing. It's best to ignore what they say and vote them.

No Galileo, the earth is actually flat you're wrong sorry.

[Alisae]

To really understand the situation that's going on right now, you have to understand the gamestate when I replaced in.

I replaced in at a time where it's very likely a wolf!Kanna was being wagoned.
Me replacing in and offering Aureal as a suggestion and replacing in the way I did gives wolves a very convenient play here and it's what happened.

Kanna enters and says "Ah yes, everything makes sense now Ali! If it's Aureal it must also be Elpis"
Dragon came in said I was the townier out of the 2, postured that both of us contains 1 wolf, and goes for Aureal because I'm coming in strong and townie and it's hard to attack or discredit my play on D1 when there are no flips available but I imagine the idea is if wolves can use the Aureal flip to make me look bad, they can try to chain Aureal -> Me and by the time both wolves are in F5, the wolves have their usual suspects of bewolkt and patch as options.

How did the other villagers respond?
Well Elpis sided with Aureal and said that they don't got good vibes based on the way I came in and how they're pushing Aureal.
Bewolkt said they don't understand what I'm doing and would like me to explain more things.
Patch identified me as town
and Aureal didn't know how to read me so they just screamed that I was a wolf mastermind because well that's the only thing they think they can do in that situation.

Honestly
doesn't take a master detective to figure this one out

[Alisae]

Like the reactions from town (I'm not considering Kawaii and Andante here because they're masons) are all different from one another, but the reactions from wolves are very similar and look like capitalizing on the situation.

[Alisae]

Like the reactions from town (I'm not considering Kawaii and Andante here because they're masons) are all different from one another, but the reactions from wolves are very similar and look like capitalizing on the situation.

I think this is a fair and interesting analysis, but I would swap Dragon and patch there tbh. At least Dragon had expressed some doubt about Aureal before, so his push felt somewhat more consistent. It was Kanna and Patch both who swapped their reads from before to join you after your push

i am inclined to vote aureal here. i really liked alisae's comments and suddenly feel like the game makes sense now

i vibe with alisae, i like their reads and their vibes and the way the play

Are you saying wolves can't be consistent? I don't think if a player is consistent it means they're one alignment over the other. I think judging how they got from A to B is a bit more important.
Either way there's a key difference between these two players though.

Dragons and Kanna I would like to say have been actively defending each other throughout all points of the game?
Patch posted this

we have fourteen hours but i rlly don't think i have time do do a reread rn, sorry
kanna continuing to push andante even after tracker claim is anti-town at best and informed at worst, but i will analyze it later this evening if i have time
VOTE: kanna

This vote probably doesn't happen if Patch is a wolf with Kanna.

[Alisae]

There's just a bunch of other signs that patch is a townie too.
I think if they're a wolf they just drop a hammer leave it at that. I don't think wolves go out of their way to fake voting aureal and being like shit I didn't wanna hammer and then hammer anyway.
I'm also a fan of their opening today.

[Alisae]

Another difference between Kanna and Patch there.

Kanna just came into the thread and said that.

Patch started with how they're going to catch up, and I think it's easier to see there how they were visibly reacting to what they saw. I imagine if they liked the Pikachu, they're going to LOVE me and like as they caught up they pointed out things that they liked from my slot.

[Alisae]

I would like to ask the following to villagers who are suspecting me
I'm replacing in, if I'm a wolf, I can realistically position myself anyway I need to in the game. I'm a wolf, I'm not town, so I can find an argument to push any player. In most playerlists I play with, it would probably be harder to get away with pushing some players than others, but this is a newbie game, I'm experienced, I sound like I know what I'm talking about, I could probably try to get anything I want and people would kind of want to gravitate towards it. Even if my reasons are bad, due to the nature of the playerlist AS WELL as the fact I'm coming into a gamestate where the village doesn't know where to go next, I could probably get away with pushing anyone.
So why Aureal?

Like, one could argue that if I introduce some kind of hot take I can try to make my slot look townier but if I'm a wolf that reflects poorly on me.
Not only that, if I'm a wolf, ANY read I produce on a player will have that same hot take energy that my Aureal read did.

Why?
To understand why, we have to understand why replacements, slots who haven't posted in awhile, or people who are lurking and keeping their reads to themselves have so much power during the day phase in a mafia game.

These positions are powerful because the way villagers work, they will tend to go after what is currently posting.
Like, let's say you decide "hey this guy is lurking let's vote them."
okay, you vote them, they don't do much of anything.
Then maybe one of your active suspects is posting and they make a post that makes you want to move your vote cause you realize that your vote on a lurker wasn't productive and you could get more out of your vote by voting an active player.
Then eventually you forget about the lurker because you're too focused on the suspects that are currently being posted.

Now we have this dynamic where suddenly since most villagers/wolves are going to want to be proactive, they're playing their hands and making their stances and worldviews open, where as no one is playing to the lurker. The lurker can use this to their advantage to help them sort players if they have a solid understanding of what is going on in the game.

Suddenly everything they say just has more power since they're in a position to try to advance the gamestate or add something new to it.

SO WITH ALL OF THIS IN MIND
If I have the magic power to powerwolf and decide the D1 elimination, why Aureal?
One would have to consider that masons are out in the open and exposed. This gives me the advantage as I now have an audience to direct my wolfgame towards.
Kawaii likes to see effort and thoughtful posting.
Andante thinks because she's conftown everything she says is gospel and we have to do as she says (this is part of the reasons why I have problems with Andante's gameplay.

Like, it's so so so much more easier for me as a wolf to go "YEP LADY (Andante), EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS AS GOOD AS GOLD AND HERES WHY I AGREE WITH YOU"
I could probably do it in a way where I don't bring too much attention to myself (we just played wolf together, so if I walk the line of slighty townie while also providing thoughtful content, she would probably like me)

not to mention going out of my way to push Aureal brings so much attention to myself when she ends up actually being town. The masons aren't even looking at this player. Andante didn't go for it and I don't remember Kawaii's stance on Aureal before I came in thread. But I imagine it's a lot easier to play a wolf game to this audience like a Magician. With magic tricks, you have to give the audience the illusion that they have some control over what happens. I imagine it would be easier to try sync up with them in a way plays to them a bit more directly, and try to move them not by saying to like everyone "HEY WE SHOULD ALL KILL THIS PERSON" but rather by trying to convince the masons where to go through talking to them in real time.
"What do you think of this player?"
They give their read
I engage with their read while also posting my own read.

like, I'm going to argue that the Aureal push if I'm a wolf brings too much attention to myself, doesn't play to the proper audience (the masons), and requires a lot more effort than just manipulating the masons. Like, if I'm a wolf, I don't need to be the one to kill the villagers, I can get the masons to do it for me and a lot more easily

[Alisae]

Also I'm going to remove the "ITS WINE" rebuttal.

Everything in Mafia is wine.
It's your job as a villager to sort it.

[Alisae]

VOTE: DragonEater70

ya know
if we look at everything that happened before this post that dragon posted

I want to say this could be distancing?
Like Ircher doesn't really have to try to get Dragon killed right here, they can move off of them later.
But man, if Ircher did somehow flip early or die, I bet Ircher makes this vote thinking it'll make him look like he's not aligned with dragon.

Could be confbias tho

[Alisae]

ya
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Ircher's positioning in thread makes sense if he's trying to distance himself from Dragon...

[Alisae]

Kanna you're trying to win an argument

[Alisae]

? i don't even remember you saying that but in any case, why is it my job to towncase you?

Oh it's not.
I mean, if you were a villager you would! You don't know all of the answers, and if I actually did provide some enlightenment and suddenly everything made sense to you, you would think that we're right on Aureal and you would want to advocate for me cause people were getting paranoid and thinking I could be powerwolfing. But you're informed and you know all of the answers, so it's more convenient for you not to. If anything, it's way more convenient to have people think that I could be powerwolfing if you know Aureal is town and plan on trying to come for my head.

[Alisae]

PLEASE PUT AN END TO THE LIGHT YAGAMI MONOLOGUES

Ya know
I think I pulled a nerve.

I think I latched onto something.

[Alisae]

anyway, i genuinely came into the day thinking there was a possibility ali was still town, but now, no.

I really think I touched a nerve.
I would say it's almost like I'm onto you.

[Alisae]

you can push me if you like and if you get enough support that it actually goes through, so be it. my dying words will also be "Don't forget to kill Alisae tomorrow guys"

If you're town?
we lost this game.

[Alisae]

Heck I'm not even pushing you Kanna.

I'm voting Dragon.

Can you tell me why Dragon's posts are townie?
I would like to see you try!

[Alisae]

Alisae (3): Elpis, DragonEater70, Kanna
bewolkt (1): patchwork
DragonEater70 (1): Alisae

Not Voting: (3) bewolkt, KawaiiKame

Wow I sure did get to 1 vote away from hammer quickly.
hey wait a minute, I see 2 names on the Ali wagon. Hmm seems familiar, where have I seen these 2 names?

[Alisae]

Aureal (5): Alisae, KawaiiKame, Kanna, DragonEater70, patchwork -- ELIM
Kanna (1): bewolkt
Alisae (1): Aureal


Not Voting (2): Elpis, Andante

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Alisae]

don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though

It is Alisae.
The evidence is this:
Both Andante and Aureal weren't voting Aureal, so there was at least 1 scum on the wagon.

I honestly think it was 2, because if Aureal was indeed town then there's really no reason to suspect Elpis, and very little reason to suspect bewollt.

So again,

probably 2 scum on the wagon

, and it's not me or Kawaii. From your POV it's not you either so ot must be Alisae and Kanna.
Furthermore, Alisae was seriously powerwolfing yesterday ever since she joined. I can't believe she's a VT after she led this miselim. That would require us to have thw most passive mafia that ever existed, and I kinda doubt that.
Third point, mafia killed Andante who was the main person suspecting Alisae.

[Alisae]

You're voting DRAGON of all the people in the pool currently?

They are high on the drug called powerwolfing. It's best to ignore what they say and vote them.

VOTE: alisae E-1

PLEASE PUT AN END TO THE LIGHT YAGAMI MONOLOGUES

You're voting DRAGON of all the people in the pool currently?

They are high on the drug called powerwolfing. It's best to ignore what they say and vote them.

No Galileo, the earth is actually flat you're wrong sorry.

[Alisae]

PLEASE PUT AN END TO THE LIGHT YAGAMI MONOLOGUES

Ya know
I think I pulled a nerve.

I think I latched onto something.

lol i am trying to be funny. no one rages while talking about light yagami monologues and baking cakes. anyway, i'm off to bed. i'll argue with you tomorrow. good night!

I thought it was very funny.
I just can't help but notice it lines up with what Dragon is posting as well.

[Alisae]

Here is what happens once I flip town btw.
And part of this is what makes Dragon saying to ignore me look gross.

Usually when people kill town in a mafia game, they don't care about their reads, especially if they die during the day. This is mostly a mindset indicative of people who think they're always right and honestly this is a pit I fall into as well, so I won't say it's easy cuz it's not.

But usually town will just forget about their reads, not care, and certainly not put what someone else thinks over what they think, especially in late game situations where everyone is playing solipsistically.
I'm scream into the void about it has to be these 2 players, and eventually my voice will be lost to the void.
Galileo tried to prove the world was round, but was shunned by his community.

It's not like I can be mad either. I mean I can, but it's not like I can fault anyone for it. I imagine one would want to try to give some consideration if they trust and value the flipped player's contributions and thought they would lead to something fruitful. But if you can engage with it and disprove it, or you don't trust them or value their contributions, or don't think its fruitful, then like ya you can just disregard the players reads.

Also it feels wrong to say "deadsheep me once I flip town" in a newbie game? I imagine that's pretentious.
I mean, you can do it if you really want to, but I think you'll learn more if you do your best to figure it out on your own and if you make a mistake then you'll learn! And that's good! Learning is good if you care about improving!

If you flip me, my suggestion would be to look @ what Kanna and Dragon do coming into the next day phase. Force them to play their votes. Hold them accountable.
They'll probably try to win at F5 by killing a town player.

I will tell you right now
Bewolkt seems like they're thinking about the game.
Patch looks like they want to be right and solve the game
Elpis is being buddied by dragon.
These are villagers.

I can also see them trying to bus and then them trying to set up patch as the endgame elimination at F3. After all, 2 wolves have to be on the Aureal wagon, right?
If it were me, out of Dragon and Kanna? I would always bus Dragon at F5? I imagine Kanna is way less likely to mess up F3 than Dragon is. After all Kanna is a really sweet, understanding person. She likes to argue things with faxs and logic. Dragon however is way more aggressive, way more volatile, newer. Like he's obvwolfing by pushing me the way he currently is. It's a lot more risky to rely on Dragon to bring it home if he decides to play F3 the way he plays this day phase (DRAGON IF HE IS A WOLF WILL TRY TO PLAY TO THIS AND TRY SOME KIND OF DIFFERENT APPROACH BUT LIKE JUST REMEMBER THIS DAY PHASE AND IF YOU FLIP KANNA JUST DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND VOTE IT OFF).

[Alisae]

I'll also point out that Kanna showing caution and not voting right away with how they did with Aureal compared to IMMEDIATLEY putting me 1 vote away from hammer should be REALLY telling.

[Alisae]

Kanna you're trying to win an argument

I think this post by itself is not enough by itself, but I do think it is what Kanna is trying to do with this post.

This is a townie start to the day.
I would be impressed if this was faked. Mostly because it looks like they actually do care about solving the game.
They're looking at ISOs and trying to figure out a read here.

lol they are just narrating every step they are making. like "ok i'm going to make a cake. to do this, i'll need milk. ok now i'm going to the fridge. just got the milk!" and so on and so forth. this is very fakable and not very realistic you got this type of townread from these posts. about the timestamps, they're each spaced 1-3 mins apart which personally is not enough time for *me* to do any analysing but. i don't see how this is evidence they're doing the work. i feel like you're just trying to show you're looking at details and analysing but the details you're looking at is wrong because they don't mean anything.

So my thought process was I read the first sentence and Kanna is just saying what they're doing. It's not rooted in being right, it's rooted in trying to refute my argument.
Then they say it's fakable, and sure, it could be, I'm just making the read that it isn't faked.

this elimination pool is terrible

of course it's terrible because scum!you loses in it.

and if you think about it, this is also very unfair because according to you, everyone is a townie apart from me and dragon, so like i can't win here unless i somehow come into the day saying "dragon is lockscum!" which you know i would never ever do. you've come into the day prepared to scumread me no matter what

Actually, I think if you were town you would vote Dragon here
You would vote Dragon, you would recognize that I'm town, and you would try to point me in another direction because you're town and you want to be right.

But again we're arguing here in a way suited towards trying to win an argument, not be right.

I genuinely think you exploited my entrance into the game to suit your own needs and it's weird how I tried to get you to explain why I'm town to people but you never actually did, or wanted to.

? i don't even remember you saying that but in any case, why is it my job to towncase you? my townread of you was basically i thought it looked like you were genuinely solving and you were never aligned with aureal who i thought was scum. it's not that deep. i *think* you're trying to say me flipping on you is scummy, but that's also simply not true like. there is new infomation. reads change. and while i have a lot of respect for you, i have, from the top of my head, played with you only once(!) seriously. that was ydrasse's love themed game 2 years ago. i think i was vaguely townreading you and you were scum so it's not like i'm qualified to soulread you and i have to be married to that read

So I respond to this mostly in 1266. Kanna probably WANTS to towncase me if I am a villager here where as if she's a wolf and she wants to keep my elim open she doesn have to.

Anyway yes Kanna, reads change, but if it does change, it allows me to track your thought processes from point A to point B. Even if it's not that deep, I bet a villager Kanna would want to write a post that shows the village where I'm genuinely solving.

I didn't think we would only have 1 game played seriously together. I thought it was more funnily enough. Now that I think about it, maybe most of my encounters with have have been you town me wolf?
Now it's the opposite LOL.
But ya I think if you had this read that you thought I was solving, and there were other players that were doubting me, in the moment because you want to be right and you think that aureal is actually a wolf, you would do it.

Anyway ya you're continuing to approach this as an argument.

and is 1237 not ironically the most agenda-y post in the entire game. it's an entire light yagami monologue. in your own words, "this push reeks planned and calculated"-- from how you lurked the first few hours so dragon and i could come on and say stuff to this wall jumping to the most bad faith conclusions. literally everything you accused dragon of can be applied to yourself -- "agenday" "pushing facts" "every post is a wolf post". btw it's perfectly reasonable to assume you posting that pic was you conceding because you had nothing to say, come on.

Kanna chainsawing Dragon here is not at all a good look for Kanna if Dragon flips wolf

You're still trying to win an argument here.

I would love to hear you defend Dragon's play here!
I don't think you can so instead you'll just attack me. I think that's significantly easier here and I think that's why you're Chainsaw Defense here. I think it's pretty rare for me to refer to these wiki tells but I think it's exactly what's happening here so I think it works.

again, town can be wrong, but it seemed like the idea that I could be wrong never crossed your mind.

you missed the boat here ali. the theory was ali/aureal were never aligned and their interactions looked like SvT. now we know who is the T...

anyway, i genuinely came into the day thinking there was a possibility ali was still town, but now, no. i think it's essential we get rid of them today and their plan is to lim one out of [me, dragon] which will be a mislim, get launched because they've exhausted their town credit card, and then have their partner blend in with whoever isn't their partner out of [bewo, patch] while the remaining out of [me, dragon] who didn't get launched will have to take a 50/50 shot. or get voted themselves if they've accumulated have mud stains from these last few days. i guess that's why they want dragon gone here over me huh? i have more mud stains on me which would be useful for f3

That theory gets busted if you just try to read me on my posts alone. I should be pretty obvtown. It's harder for newer players to find because it's easy to get lost in doubt and think "WOW THIS SUPER SPOOKY EXPERIENCED PLAYER COULD BE MANIPULATING ME"
But no I'm just town.

But it's really convenient to rely on this dichotomy that you faked that isn't even true and say it must be true!

And no, I want Dragon gone because he played this day phase like an openwolf and I want to kill the mafia.

[Alisae]

Anyway yes Kanna, reads change, but if it does change, it allows me to track your thought processes from point A to point B. Even if it's not that deep, I bet a villager Kanna would want to write a post that shows the village where I'm genuinely solving.

Oh also it's a newbie game. Villager Kanna would do it on that premise as well.
Part of why I was asking you to was also because this is a newbie game. If it's just me telling them I'm town, it's easier for them to doubt themselves and think I'm fooling them, but if it's another person then it's a more reliable source as it's not me. You do it for the newbies cuz they're newer to the game.

[Alisae]

lisae are you trying to pocket me ??y?
VOTE: alisae

YOU KILLED ME

[Alisae]

I am flipping villager.

[Alisae]

I did my job it's fine

[Alisae]

OH SHIT IM SORRY

OH MY GOD PATCH

[Alisae]

THIS IS GOING TO MAKE YOUR LIFE HARDER TOMORROW

[Alisae]

Your town
You made a mistake.
It's fine.

[Alisae]

Don't let Dragon and Kanna get away with it.

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

FUCK
IM SORRY I ONLY READ UP TO LIKE PAGE 49 IM SORRY MAN
WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING
PEDIY: I WONT

Don't place your vote until you're done reading up.
It's okay.
I'm here now.
Read up talk to me

[Alisae]

You are going to have a really stressful day phase tomorrow but you have to keep fighting you have to be a man of metal

[Alisae]

If me flipping town is what Elpis needs to realize he's being pocketed and manipulated, so be it. Village can stop being distracted and kill wolves. I did my job and I'll be happy.

If Dragon or Kanna is town this game is lost. Those 2 sped up this elim. It's not your fault Patch.

[Alisae]

Patch is a villager
This hammer is not faked
This hammer comes from a Patch who doesn't know the votecount and just does what they feel like doing in the moment.
It is in line and consistent with their Aureal hammer. I would be surprised if they faked it

[Alisae]

For the newbies

When your slot is highly suspected, don't cave into the pressure.
Do what you need to do as a villager and keep trying to solve, keep trying to hunt, keep fighting.

I have played this position so many times where tables have wanted to kill me during the day.
Someone has to be the elimination during the day.
When you're a villager, you have to do your best to keep fighting and solving. You have to fight like your life depends on it. It's as stressful as you make it be.

[Alisae]

Bewolkt throughout this whole game has just done his own thing and played his own game.
He hasn't been playing with any teammates, and he's been trying to get read the other players.

It's not him guys.

[Alisae]

Force Kanna and Dragon to put votes down tomorrow first.

PATCH TOMORROW IF YOU VOTE TOWN, YOU WILL LOSE. DON'T PLAY YOUR VOTE UNLESS YOU'RE CONFIDENT ITS ON A WOLF.
Yesterday's hammer is fine and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Today's hammer is a mistake.
You can't make mistakes tomorrow.

I mean I think I made it really hard for village to make mistakes but I mean now it's just out of my control so whatever happens happens.
I did my best. I led a horse to water but I cannot make it drink.

[Alisae]

Elpis I bet Patch's hammer will make you a lot more angry.
But you have to understand, it's a mistake.
Just because it makes you angry doesn't mean it comes from wolves.
It's a mistake.

[Alisae]

Kanna on Aureal D1

be careful everyone! aureal has 3 votes on her last i counted -- alisae, kawaii and dragon. i think if she was scum, she might self-hammer so let's not put any votes on her for now

Kanna immediately on me D2

VOTE: alisae E-1

PLEASE PUT AN END TO THE LIGHT YAGAMI MONOLOGUES

[Alisae]

Let's be careful then!
But when I am threat let's throw all caution out the fucking window.

[Alisae]

Ya know Kanna
now that I'm dead

I'll just talk to you like you're a wolf and tell you how you blundered. You had something really good going until Dragon just obvwolfed it.

Trying to go for my miselim now? Massive mistake.
You're better off trying to pocket me and get me to kill town.

Maybe try 1 wolf on wagon, 1 wolf off wagon. Using both votes when a mason is voting blows up on your face if the people can determine that the players not voting are villagers.
If you and your partner can get on my goodside, I would have probably killed town for you again, and THEN you can try to come for me at F5. And even then if you can try to keep me off of you two, you can maybe even try to get me to kill town for ya at F5.

I think by having both wolves vote on wagon and overextend today to get my elim, you overplayed your hand.

I've done everything I can to make sure it costs you, I did all I can to lead the horse to water, but I cannot make the horse drink.
gl, you will need it tomorrow

[Alisae]

ok I think this is all I have in the gas tank.

I did everything I could.

I'm going to go to bed.

gl village and Kanna.

[Alisae]

Alisae (3): Elpis, DragonEater70, Kanna
bewolkt (1): patchwork
DragonEater70 (1): Alisae

Not Voting: (3) bewolkt, KawaiiKame

Wow I sure did get to 1 vote away from hammer quickly.
hey wait a minute, I see 2 names on the Ali wagon. Hmm seems familiar, where have I seen these 2 names?

Aureal (5): Alisae, KawaiiKame, Kanna, DragonEater70, patchwork -- ELIM
Kanna (1): bewolkt
Alisae (1): Aureal


Not Voting (2): Elpis, Andante

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Holy shit this is such a fucked up argument.
are you seriously implying that because we voted the person YOU were pushing hardest yesterday (and remember I was fine with limming either of you, or even bewolkt), then we're scum? Gosh.
If I were as an insincere, scummy bastard as you I could've literally done the same for your vote on me.

don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though

It is Alisae.
The evidence is this:
Both Andante and Aureal weren't voting Aureal, so there was at least 1 scum on the wagon.

I honestly think it was 2, because if Aureal was indeed town then there's really no reason to suspect Elpis, and very little reason to suspect bewollt.

So again,

probably 2 scum on the wagon

, and it's not me or Kawaii. From your POV it's not you either so ot must be Alisae and Kanna.
Furthermore, Alisae was seriously powerwolfing yesterday ever since she joined. I can't believe she's a VT after she led this miselim. That would require us to have thw most passive mafia that ever existed, and I kinda doubt that.
Third point, mafia killed Andante who was the main person suspecting Alisae.

[Alisae]

Fuck this I am not aggressive enough to compete with Alisae's bullshit. My playstyle isn't based on force and charisma like hers, it's based on analysis. Vote me out if you want, just remember to vote Alisae out tomorrow.

You have voted me out.
I am flipping villager.
This is fake.

[Alisae]

Does not change what I said

[Alisae]

There is nothing wrong with my play and you know it.
You have set yourself up to be surprised at my townflip.

[Alisae]

If it’s so bullshit, why are you saying it’s bullshit instead of trying to address my concerns.

O wait
Cuz ur a wolf
U don’t have to care about my concerns if you use your vote to kill the person you want to kill > being right

[Alisae]

Kanna on Aureal D1

be careful everyone! aureal has 3 votes on her last i counted -- alisae, kawaii and dragon. i think if she was scum, she might self-hammer so let's not put any votes on her for now

Kanna immediately on me D2

VOTE: alisae E-1

PLEASE PUT AN END TO THE LIGHT YAGAMI MONOLOGUES

First quote - when Kanna wasn't ready to eliminate Aureal.
Second quote - Kanna was ready to eliminate you.
Is it that hard to come up with?

she wasn’t ready to elim aureal with 36+ hours left in day phase but she’s ready to eliminate me under 24 hours???

[Alisae]

Like if you are actually town you are just doing really silly and anti town things right now because you are shading the towniest towns and making them out to be scum.

This is fearmongering

[Alisae]

Ya I’m anti-town for wanting to kill wolves

Lmfao

[Alisae]

Like if you are actually town you are just doing really silly and anti town things right now because you are shading the towniest towns and making them out to be scum.

This is fearmongering

No, it's me being annoyed with your supposed townplay.

You’re yelling at Galileo who is telling you that the earth is round and insisting that the earth is flat.
I’m using hyperbole but it’s funny I can’t help myself.

[Alisae]

Also in case I die tomorrow, and in case Alisae IS town (which I still don't think is probable) -
For god's sake DON'T vote before there was plenty of time for discussion. Because tomorrow would be ELO in that case and scum can just quickhammer and win if one of ya'll votes town.

You and Kanna are the first players putting down votes.
You’re a wolf, you’ll find some way to circumnavigate around this

[Alisae]

It’s frarmongering because apparently I’m anti-town for suspecting the “towniest town”

The guy is discrediting me because he knows I speak the truth.
His play this phase has been geared towards trying to make it so during the follow phases people won’t want to listen to what I say.

[Alisae]

Also in case I die tomorrow, and in case Alisae IS town (which I still don't think is probable) -
For god's sake DON'T vote before there was plenty of time for discussion. Because tomorrow would be ELO in that case and scum can just quickhammer and win if one of ya'll votes town.

You and Kanna are the first players putting down votes.
You’re a wolf, you’ll find some way to circumnavigate around this

Not if I die tonight.

Lol

[Alisae]

If ur a villager, you lost the game for village with your play today.
No shot wolves ever shoot you. I don’t buy you actually believe you’re getting shot

[Alisae]

i s2g if ur a villager

Aureal if it's not me who is it

If you're a villager now is your best time to actually put out content

This is how a villager talks to the person they just killed in twilight btw.

Dragon has been the exact opposite of this. In fact he would probably prefer it if I accepted my death and stay silent but I’m using everything in my power to try to get posts in during twilight

[Alisae]

This setup has masons
There are no docs
Like that comment is just fake

[Alisae]

I'm away one day and Alisae gets hammered...

Cya in the dead pt LOL

[Alisae]

Dragon is scared to post actual content during twilight because he knows if he tries to say something right now about how patch hammer bad I would call him out for it

He’ll do it tomorrow though after I’ve died!

[Alisae]

Vote Kanna Day 3

It’s dragon kanna they’re both wolves

[Alisae]

lol

[Alisae]

Kanna I can’t believe u killed me like that as a villager D:

[Alisae]

patch i wouldn't recommend placing your vote while you're catching up

[Alisae]

Kanna I can’t believe u killed me like that as a villager D:

sorry! a sad game for the kannasae </3

a very sad game for the kannasae

[Alisae]

fun fact I probably have one of the worst winrates in the newbie queue

[Alisae]

patch i wouldn't recommend placing your vote while you're catching up

yeah i'm so sorry abotu that

its fine its about the learning process you seem like you wanna learn so its ok!

--

fun fact I probably have one of the worst winrates in the newbie queue

out of the three games i've completed i've won only one so i think i'm coming to join you there

LOL I don't really join newbie games tbh.
I replaced in because I wanted to say hi to Kanna

[Alisae]

wait i misread that 2nd post

[Alisae]

how did i even manage to accidentally hammer TWIVCE.

your first hammer was fine tbh

[Alisae]

I'll agree the Elpis really sold the image that they were going for so wp there
Bewolkt had decently good looking solving too I think

[Alisae]

I'm happy you had a good experience!

Ya you're a fun player. I don't join games too often but I do join games if the game is appealing cause of playerlist or mod

[Alisae]

how did i even manage to accidentally hammer TWIVCE.

your first hammer was fine tbh

how so

deadline was comin up there probably wasn't going to be any other choice

[Alisae]

if it wasn't you a wolf likely hammers Aureal wagon cuz it's all town

[Alisae]

I'm happy you had a good experience!

Ya you're a fun player. I don't join games too often but I do join games if the game is appealing cause of playerlist or mod

can i add you as a friend

I think the friend feature is like a clientside thing that doesn't really do anything but sure

[Alisae]

i do want to play more games with you though you seem cool and you were very fun to play with /g

if u want I am in queue for the next mini normal if u wanna join that