Newbie 2127: game over

[KatyKimFanClub]

How are you possibly considering voting for either Delta or Snix and giving an intent to hammer if you think that it's TvT?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Rereading last two pages I'm a bit lost.

[KatyKimFanClub]

But I'm starting to think that this is just TvT and scum is opportunistically riding this wave to win the game.

Starting my reread here. It's probable there's been some miscommunication but I have questions for Bazuf and Delta.

Bazuf, if you think that Snix vs. Delta is TvT, why am I (as scum) not hammering Snix there? Firstly, the clear has voted for Snix, and also it would make me look at lot townier, since at the time that Snix is at E-1 the current hypothesis you have is that the team is me/Snix.
So, knowing that, why would I not hammer?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Okay, the case on Deltabreedy:

Day 1:
Deltabreedy's day one activity is both weird and atypical Deltabreedy. I say this as having played games with him before, but I'm not scumreading him for that (at least, not currently). Let's take a look.

Early Day 1 is an HFD wagon (28) which is justified by saying that HFD is scum-fishing(30). Next is a vote on me (54) for being inconsistent about my PC opinion. Deltabreedy later clarifies in (88) that I claimed PC had done something which was 80% indicative of scum. But both HFD's post and my post weren't doing either one of those things - HFD wasn't claim-fishing; and my post was widely misinterpreted,

by Deltabreedy

. There is a pattern here, and not a good one.

Moving on after a gap, (223) is a new set of reads, but Jason, KKFC, and PC (who are town) are kind of pocket reads for Deltabreedy; he doesn't justify town-reading them.

Then we get to the real kicker of Day 1 - after psyching himself up to not wagon MikhailTal in 334 and 337; Deltabreedy announces intent to hammer Mikhail in 340 despite claiming that 'there's a better than good chance that Mikhail is town'. At this point, I should note, the Snix/usesPython/ Claptastik slot is on the wagon and being replaced. JasonWazza pulls off, and Deltabreedy does not take this well as a result, eventually voting JasonWazza as a result (359). I am not going to lie, I just can't get over this being the stated reason for a hammer.

Deltabreedy also mentions in (858) that there was an olive branch, which isn't exactly a lie, but considering the olive branch was after the hammer attempt failed miserably, it does put some useful context on it.

Ultimate summary of Day 1: Deltabreedy spends early Day 1 voting for players after misinterpreting what they are trying to do. Is this deliberate? Maybe, maybe not. There are a few pocket reads; but that's not so strange (given he's scumreading the rest of the player base) and ultimately a hammer on MikhailTal under the logic of 'well, you may be town, but you're useless town so goodbye'. Any one of the three would be slight scumread on its own; but nothing worth eliminating over. Put all three together, and you start seeing things.

Day 2:
Deltabreedy starts off arguing for the remaining Mason to reveal themselves, which isn't optimal play; but it's not a huge difference from optimal play. So, again, slight red flag. (Noticing a pattern?)

Day 2 is also where the 'meta' comes really into play here; and I agree with usesPython about this that Deltabreedy isn't sticking to his meta (which Deltabreedy doesn't dispute in 442); but I disagree that it means Deltabreedy is scummy. At least, by itself. I have not problems with players trying new strategies. That said, there's always the question of 'why' in these cases, and since I haven't yet figured out the reason for it (early game I thought Deltabreedy might have been a PR - and in fact, still quite possible), it's a flag for me. Just a little flag. Also, again, weirdly Deltabreedy is back on his meta for me in Day 2, going into page-long 1v1 against other players (which was slightly lacking on Day 1).

I am also not wading through all that again, I spend enough time trying to catch up on the gamestate to go through all that. It's a 1v1 of either KKFC or usesPython, and then Deltabreedy ends up scumreading them both (838).

Day 2 isn't exactly what I would call a dedicated scum-case either; and yet, it's all the little flags right now that are doing it for me. Deltabreedy hasn't been working this game on trying to root out scum through careful and precise playing, he's whacking the gamestate with a metaphorical hammer until something scummy emerges and jumps on it; regardless if a) it's not scummy or b) Delta is the one who caused it in the first place. There's not really another player active right now who has this kind of a trail of chaos and half-a-dozen little red flags behind them.

If Deltabreedy flips red, as a scumpair, I'd guess (off the cuff) PC - there's not a lot of meaningful interactions between them until a scumread at (747) which comes from nowhere and goes absolutely nowhere, though I don't have enough time to run pairs right now; that will be a task for tomorrow.

I don't think Delta asking for the Mason to reveal is not optimal. You need to account for the fact that scum knows eachother and can pilot wagons off their partner, so it's not a straight question of probability. Either way, I think I asked for the mason to out and it comes across as town needing direction, in my opinion.

Also, I don't recall anyone ever saying it was *either* me or usesPython, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

I agree there are a decent number of red flags, but I mainly see them from Day 1.

[KatyKimFanClub]

logic of 'well, you may be town, but you're useless town so goodbye'. Any one of the three would be slight scumread on its own; but nothing worth eliminating over. Put all three together, and you start seeing things.
You reached the same conclusion as me…
This can all be read as slightly scum or not, you are just choosing to believe it is scummy, while I think it’ll be too easy…

I think this is where I really started to get confused. Why does Bazuf extend the courtesy of declaring this deviation from meta NAI?
But for me he admits that he's tunneling because of LAMIST. I just think this is such a weird place to take a stand.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@CT
So, if delta flips scum, then his partner is PC/Bazuf
If delta flips town, then Snix is "probably" scum.
Is this the "useful" information town get from a Delta lim??

Despite the odds, there's a chance that Delta/Snix are TvT.

Lets look at a possible Snix lim:
If Snix flips scum then other partner is KKFC
If Snix flips town, then Delta is "probably" scum, and partner probably is PC/Bazuf.

So how exactly is a Delta lim better than a Snix lim???
They seem the same to me, honestly...

At this point I can conform for a Delta lim, only on one condition:
If he flips town, we vote KKFC on the next day, not Snix...
And that's only because I think KKFC/CT or KKFC/Snix are a possibility, but don't think that Snix/CT are possible.

On the other hand, if you're so sure that Snix/Delta are SvT, let's go with Snix first and Delta second...
What would be the difference?

Ok, I reread this post and understand what you are saying now. I didn't see the @CT at the top.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@KKFC
Two reasons, or instead, two theories...
1. There's a chance the team is still you and Snix.
2. If you hammered and Snix flips town it would look bad for you either way...
It would look forced I think because you were already pushing for Delta, so it wouldnt make sense to switch like that for no reason

At this point hammering without discussing things is not really a town move, I think...

So you 1) scumread me for not being on the Mikhail wagon but also 2) would have scumread me for being on a town wagon. In both cases they were the dominant wagon at the time with time running out.
I agree it would look bad for me, but it would still be a town miselim and the easy push the next day would be Delta, not me. Also, why would I sabotage my own case for pushing on Delta in a hypothetical D3 then? I mentioned earlier that I thought it could Delta/UP/Snix could be TvT previously in the day.

[KatyKimFanClub]

1. There's a chance the team is still you and Snix.

Sure, but it's clearly a better play to hammer Snix if he and Delta are town and I'm scum. The way I see it, this weekend there were three people who got prodded and two who were V/LA the whole time. I could have built a case (the case that I had already built) that UP has tried to pocket me and that Snix's entrance into the game was scummy.

The way this game was setup, I never going to take UP's side in their 1v1 with Delta especially after I see you questioning UP if I'm scum. If I lie low, I can sit there as they force a 1v1 in a TvT situation. This is just WIFOM but I hope Occam's Razor applies here. I would have had a much easier win condition as scum.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also, why are you so confident that PC is town? If you think that UP vs. Delta is TvT, why are you not more suspicious of the person who has been lurking the hardest during the whole saga?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I honestly think I come out of the reread not sure about Bazuf's alignment. I think it's probably equally likely he's town tunneling me and right about CT than him being scum.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@Bazuf. If I'm town, what do you think the scum team would be? I understand you think this is improbable, but what if?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also, your reasoning for Snix applies to me as well...
If I'm scum, why wouldn't I just hammer Snix?

Honestly good question.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also, your reasoning for Snix applies to me as well...
If I'm scum, why wouldn't I just hammer Snix?

Honestly good question.

you could only consider this valid until delta unvoted snix.

Yes, but he clearly thought Snix was scum in posts like 711. He had a chance at 859 to hammer but instead he thinks that the argument is TvT and moves back onto me. This would be the longest con as scum honestly. One possible explanation is that Bazuf would be scum with Snix, but that doesn't seem super probable.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Right now I'm wondering if the alignment between my read on Delta Day 1 and CT's read on Delta Day 1 are coincidence vs. by design.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Well, Delta/Bazuf is impossible now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

[KatyKimFanClub]

Hey, I'm good.


Just waiting for you to finish catching up. My eye roll emoji is a reaction to 938 and 942.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Uh... they're referencing something that doesn't exist.

[KatyKimFanClub]

The catchup post by Snix haha

[KatyKimFanClub]

I was debating whether to say anything at all, because I don’t want to derail your momentum

[KatyKimFanClub]

Sure, give me a half hour or so to get home.

[KatyKimFanClub]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

[KatyKimFanClub]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

Going to go in chronological order:

Day 1:

I think here the most accurate way I can say it is that I felt as though

Delta's

vibes were off? I don't actually care about the supposed posturing before and after the Tal hammer, nor do I think the hammer was that bad given the deadline situation. I expected more aggression and I guess I wonder to what extend the early pushes on PC and Jason were engineered to give Delta time to lay low(ish) afterwards.

For

Claptastik

(original Snix slot), I didn't really have an opinion because there wasn't much there. They had a post that indicated they read the entire argument between me and PC, which I thought was decently +town. Later, they had a couple of posts that were decently scummy (referenced in 279) that I maybe should care about more.

Day 2:

UsesPython

replaces in to decently hot water and then correctly identifies my meta and makes a claim about it that I think is pretty hard to fake? Especially considering my corpus of games is pretty low and the town! and scum! metas are quite distinct at this point. I think their frustration to the relative lack of weight meta has in these games is genuine, as is their frustration with how they think Newbie games tend to operate. These things seem pretty NAI though. Similarly, I think their meta read on Delta is accurate and a little self-fulfilling, since what they claim Delta operates as is basically exactly what happens. The thing is though, none of this is really a reason for me to townread the slot, unless maybe UP reads the game state and thinks that white knighting me is the best way to right the ship? Either way, UP gets a ton of pressure (which at the time I think is fairly undeserved) and replaces out.

Delta

's argument with UsesPython makes me feel a little better about the spot, but I just think the relative lack of aggression is not something I would expect from town!Delta. As I'm writing this, I just wonder how much is him being V/LA for a decent portion of the day.

---

Ok to be honest at this point my mind is super fucked. I'm not sure I believe in the case on scum!Delta anymore. I'm going to take a pause.

PEDIT: Yeah, PC your comment is super on point. I am fence sitting and yes it is bad for town. I just really don't want to be wrong.

[KatyKimFanClub]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

why don't you ask snix why they haven't made a catchup post?

I think it's pretty clear at this point we're not getting one.

[KatyKimFanClub]

well said. taking a shot, being wrong and talking it out post-game is half the fun if mafia. the other half is winning so i'd be cool w that too.

for what it's worth kkfc, i'm excited to talk to you more because i also haven't really solved this game and my head is a pretty tangled knot rn.

I'll walk you through my logic as Day 2 progresses.

UP defends me with accurate meta reads and pushes on Delta for what I believe to be accurate meta reads -> UP +town, Delta +scum.

I come to think that UP is starting to pocket me, they take a lot of flak and replace out. I think their pivot from Delta at the last moment is extremely AI but it gives me the sense that a Snix vote might just lose us the game in the case that the whole thing was TvT. I think this is where I start to think that a Snix elim is a bad idea.

I move on to Bazuf, but after interacting with them more and rereading a lot of their posts, I lose a lot of conviction in scum!Bazuf.

This with the relative lack of activity from CT and PC has me totally mindfucked.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I suppose a big reason for me being on the scum!Delta train is that I thought a Bazuf/Delta team had huge negative partner equity, and my opinion of Bazuf did a 180.


Also, there's just something weird about their interactions with Bazuf after 899. I'll admit that I misread it, and after Bazuf makes that post really any semblance of a case I had against him sort of dissolves. I even went back and reread his iso and it came across more town than I remembered. I think at that point I was a victim of sheeping Mikhail a little too hard and tunneling Bazuf off that.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ok, after purging my thoughts, I have:

Town

the worst (HFD)
KKFC
Bazuf
PC
Delta
CT
Snix/UP/Claptastik

Scum

[KatyKimFanClub]

I appreciate you and what you're saying a lot, PC.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I just realized I asked Snix a ton of questions that he responded to in 813. His slot actually shares a lot of similarities with his two predecessors in that they townread me. All three of them actually had different reasoning, which I think is kinda cute and makes me like the slot.

I think Snix refusing to scumread PC and (fairly accurately, no offense) reading them as a little willing to bend interpretations of posts to keep a narrative going is also +town.


I don't really like their justification in 832 for the vote. Yes, they are essentially put into a 1v1 scenario, but they had a chance to fix that with pressure moving off themselves and they haven't really been productive. This could be a timing thing though.


856 reads as +scum but only because a lot of the reasoning for scumreading Delta is eerily similar to CT's.

Snix, please answer these questions:

1) Do you believe in your predecessor's meta read on me? I know you townread me but what were your thoughts when you read UP's defense of me?

2) Is Delta your top scumread? Or is this a vote of necessity? 850 reads like you're extremely confident Delta is scum.
3) When I reread this post,

Honestly the fact that I'm still around has me befuddled. I was expecting Bazuf to hammer after he gave me time to state a defense. This means, to me, that either both scum were already on my wagon or that Bazuf is really trying to keep his hands clean for the endgame.

I feel like depending on your confidence in Bazuf distancing, then you should be pushing a Bazuf/CT team harder or at least presenting the possibility of that?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I don't know what to make of the three who have collectively made up the Snix slot all losing steam? At least we can be sure they're the same alignment? (bad joke sorry)

[KatyKimFanClub]

The more I think about it and the more I POE this down, the more suspicious I am of CT.

[KatyKimFanClub]

This is kinda my thesis, though specifically ct's treatment of pc and snix's slot are closer to this mark. I think ct's take on delta is just a bit closer to opportunism. It's hard to believe ct believes what ct is saying. But I believe ct believes that we'll believe what ct is saying.

I think this is where I've struggled with sorting CT. Their tone is pretty mellow all the time so it's hard to really separate out any sort of deception going on.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I don't see the same thing, but I really love the KKFC/CT theory. There's totally partner equity there, I think it's pretty rare that scum actually come out the gate having each other's backs like that, and I think KKFC's early townread on CT feels kinda earnest? My biggest eyebrow raise moment is that kkfc seemed open to the current wagon then dipped but that's probably just a timing thing.

KKFC/Snix I'm like, not sure I see, I'd need to dive it and I think I'm going to run out of time. In rebuttal, I'm less "kkfc/ct or kkfc/snix but always kkfc", and more "ct/snix or ct/kkfc but always ct", you know?

Yeah, I made the decision to stop reading this thread around 2 AM my time since it was getting late and my brain was fried.
I'm still ok with a CT vote.

overjustify joining a major wagon, but it felt to me like the way he jumped on it was so bizarre and oblique that it's probably genuine more often than not

Is this referring to Bazuf jumping on the Delta wagon? I think his reasoning for jumping on is really genuine. I also didn't really see the distancing between Bazuf/Delta that one might expect before a bus attempt, so the abruptness makes me pretty confident in Bazuf being town.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Hmm again not having this game on lock, it's kind of hard to throw confident lists of associated scum pairings out there. I think scum have played well irrespective of who scum are. I'd be pretty impressed if pc picked that as a busting option, so I wouldn't consider pc as a partner. I also think yours & bazuf's associatives with CT are pretty clean. I'd be looking straight at snix, and I guess kkfc as second place but like. There's such a difference in the way ct treats snix's slot to the way ct treats y'all.

Just to help your attempts to solve this game, do you not think I'm a little guilty of being too charitable towards Snix too? Or is that actually why you see us having partner equity.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm ok with a Snix vote if enough of us agree it simplifies the game state enough.

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: Snix

[KatyKimFanClub]

Thanks for responding. I get what you're saying in response to 3). Gonna spend some time thinking about this but ultimately I think realistically my best vote option is here.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I know. I was pretty disappointed by it because that's definitely not something we should be joking about.

[KatyKimFanClub]

harpooned

Hey, just to confirm here, harpoon means solidify right?

I think it's a tough lim because really I think you and CT are equally likely to flip scum, it's just that if you do flip town, then it makes the game a lot easier in the sense that I feel confident enough to solve it.

[KatyKimFanClub]

There's no worry about a mason counterclaim.

[KatyKimFanClub]

This game is taking its toll

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think whenever Snix talks I like his slot more.

[KatyKimFanClub]

That being said, I'm just trying to think through who the teams are depending on flips.

If Snix flips town, it would have to be a CT/Delta team.
If Snix flips scum, then I think it would be CT. Another consideration here is whether Snix's refusal to really engage with or scumread PC is some long con. We've all noted how long the day has been. The thing is, I don't think that the vitriol from their initial conversation is faked at all, so it would have to be CT.

The only primary teams I see right now are:
Snix/CT
Delta/CT
PC/Bazuf

[KatyKimFanClub]

is ct/delta a thing or do i have to really super deeply reevaluate bazuf?

I wonder like, between the two people who are attacking CT early on (PC, Delta) and the two who defended him (me and Bazuf) how the alignment split works out.

I know I'm town (and if you take my word for it) it's unlikely that both scum are going to push on him that early maybe?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I've sent an alarm to vote for CT before the deadline tomorrow morning.

Does anyone have any objections to me doing it right now?

[KatyKimFanClub]

does this align with how you're seeing snix, and do you agree with snix's approach to pc as exhaustion rather than scumminess? or do you think it's driven by having too much info, or by needing to maneuver around pc?

I think exhaustion.

[KatyKimFanClub]

i think i'm in a pretty similar boat with my scumteam probabilities, *except* that there's a remote world where ct/you makes sense

I think this would be my most likely non-Snix partner, but I think a me/CT team are going to play this day a little faster, especially since that implies Snix/Delta is TvT.

[KatyKimFanClub]

pc is someone who *tried* to paint a target on their own back at the start of the game with that push.

PC has played this game with a pretty interesting level of bravado that I can't help but admire. Beyond the whole queen/sexual orientation conversation, which seemed like him pushing a boundary too far and was pretty icky. I think this sort of tightrope act is pretty +town?

[KatyKimFanClub]

do any of us disagree that axing [ct, delta, snix] will probably win the game? i don't expect anyone to blindly follow this order, like still do as much work as you're willing in f5 & f3 to get to the bottom of it, but does anyone not feel semi-confidently about this lim pool?

I mean, I hope this is right.

I think it might just be you and me around right now. My plan was to wake up about an hour before the deadline and hammer whatever was available to me, but currently my intent is on CT (just to clarify to future readers).

[KatyKimFanClub]

For what it's worth, your fellow mason reads were mostly generated on a Day 1 that preceded a pretty epic shitstorm between Delta and Snix's predecessor. If there's a TvT there, then this game was just really hard to figure out from that point.

It is in the back of my head that TvT is possible, but the way things played out afterwards have me feeling like the probability can't be too high.

[KatyKimFanClub]

i do feel comforted continuously reaching a townlean on bazuf, pc and kkfc, then seeing that the fallen masons before me did the same. i feel a little bad for my scumread on ct because i did like the defences on them, i just don't think i can reach the same read.

do any of us disagree that axing [ct, delta, snix] will probably win the game? i don't expect anyone to blindly follow this order, like still do as much work as you're willing in f5 & f3 to get to the bottom of it, but does anyone not feel semi-confidently about this lim pool?

just one thing to consider do we marinate in the wifom of snix/delta or deal with it today.

I don't see the downside of waiting longer. Eventually the pool will get narrower and it's not like any new information is coming out.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Morning

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ok. Let's rock.

[KatyKimFanClub]

It's your call

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think getting Snix today makes tomorrow easier for me, but I also think CT's vote on Delta is really weird and I don't think town would be hanging a vote there unless there's an activity-related issue for them.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I would go Snix for now, because I'm not sure if Delta is around and the idea of a no elim is really scary.

[KatyKimFanClub]

So CT is technically an option at this point?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I would hammer Snix, @the worst.

Flip-flopping this close to a deadline is usually a mistake (from life experience).

[KatyKimFanClub]

miss u all already have fun without me

[KatyKimFanClub]

Confident in Delta/PC being town.

[KatyKimFanClub]

To be honest, I think a vote on me isn't the most unreasonable thing considering Claptastik, UP, and Snix all townread me. I am town though. FMPOV, I think it's down to CT or Bazuf, as I think UP interaction with Delta and Snix interaction with PC clears both of them.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think so, but the level of animosity is something I would expect between scum and town, especially when it got to talking about certain topics. If they're both scum I would award Snix an Oscar.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Been a bit busy with stuff today. Will read over last few posts tomorrow.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Morning all.

The way I see it, Delta and PC are confirmed to me.
Delta for D2 interactions with UP
PC for D2 interactions with Snix.

Now, the worst also laid a foundation for a PC townread, and honestly I think this gameplay is really weird and arguably at times not town-sided, but I think he's town. I don't even really want to think about the idea that he's scum until tomorrow.

This leaves a pretty easy CT -> Bazuf POE for me personally. I think a CT/Snix team has a lot of potential, as CT pushed on Delta pretty hard yesterday. I could also see the Bazuf/Snix team, as Bazuf didn't hammer Snix and also pivoted onto Delta after some prodding. Then again, this could be said for me too, though I eventually did vote for Snix.

[KatyKimFanClub]

KKFC has drifted a lot this game using the LAMIST 'gameplay style' excuse which still pings me tbh but it's outweighed by CT's bad faith push and PC's damn near nonsensical chaining of lims on essentially conf-town. They're actively looking now to lim a townie rather than convince said townie of CT's scumhood - this leads to putting the rest of yous in Lim-Or-Lose in which they can choose an optimal kill and run a train on CT tomorrow.

Fair comment regarding me. I don't understand why PC is adamant on voting for you over CT either.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Going to reread Bazuf/CT/Snix iso now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Can you reconcile your TR of PC with today's events so far, KKFC?

I don't know how much slack is fair to give PC. He's a strong player and I don't want to underestimate him, but everything is sort of wrapped in a layer of WIFOM that makes me suspicious that he knows more than me (and then I'm again suspicious of if this is scum versus if this is a good town player). His observation that I was hedging/fence sitting was not hard to spot in retrospect but the way he said it seemed town.

My point is that if I struggle enough I can probably reconcile anything he does. Maybe Snix was so frustrated at him because Snix replaces in and realizes that PC is about to hard bus him?

[KatyKimFanClub]

my argument is and always has been chicago is scum.

Can we get Chicago first and then cross this bridge tomorrow? If you and Delta are truly locked into a S v T (saying hypothetically it's not CT here) then both of you will live to tomorrow anyways.

[KatyKimFanClub]

When I said S v T in a previous post that also means T v S, just putting that out there in advance.

[KatyKimFanClub]

The people who had an opportunity to hammer Snix early on yesterday were me, CT, and Bazuf. Ultimately, none of us did. However, I don't think CT voted for Snix at any point yesterday. There's an obvious meaning to this vote analysis and it's one of the reasons I think it's CT, but this only works if Snix tried to distance from CT multiple times, and my brain is so fried I don't remember exactly.

Another thing to think about during my reread.

[KatyKimFanClub]

1) I agree, I'm saying this to try to get them to vote for you (heh). I view Delta and PC as equally clear right now honestly. Both have interactions with UP/Snix (respectively) that mean I will just never vote for them.
2) Yes, but it can be S v T with less probability than someone else being scum. That was my point.

[KatyKimFanClub]

This is why PC feels so bold in acting this way. The way the cards are falling works perfectly for PC. Lim CT today, kill me and then there is both you and PC who suspect Bazuf. It's optimal for them.

Sure, but why would he ruin that by voting for you? Seems needless because yes, if he were scum, this path would be a lot easier.

[KatyKimFanClub]

The only way this works out and PC survives is by limming between CT and I, killing the other one and then playing off of your commitment to PC!Town to force a cross with Bazuf which they'll win if your townread remains intact.

This supposes that you trust me and Bazuf more than you townread PC. Otherwise PC could push CT and then whoever was left out of me/Bazuf. Was that true at day start?

[KatyKimFanClub]

@PC, I don't see why you're voting for Delta right now? What makes the game easier for town by voting him?

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

[KatyKimFanClub]

The last posts of KKFC sound very weird to me....

First, you question Jason for asking more from Clapstick, which is very legit because he has said practically zero.
The argument you use for this is that "he should give more info himself before asking for info"... why???
Besides,

he has already gave plenty of his reads, so this doesn't even make much sense...

Also, you said that you got in an argument with PC without giving much information yourself.
Isn't this contradictory?
And what exactly did you get from that argument with PC?


And why exactly do you think Clapstick is town?? I'd be ok with a null read, but a town read??

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Clapstick

I think this is E-1, so kindly share more of your thoughts.

Kudos for you for recognizing that depsite the low post count, my posts do have significant content.

But, if you're not voting me for supposed lack of production, I guess you're voting me for my reads. Where do you disagree with them?

I feel better about Bazuf after seeing this. Don't think partners would be so transparent, and don't think Bazuf would be ok bussing this early yet refuse to bus later in the game.

Think more and more that a CT vote ends the game.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@KKFC:
What makes you assume that Delta will live until tomorrow?

Because I'm never voting for Delta today.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@KKFC:
Your reason for townreading PC doesn’t really make sense to me, because the best play for a scum!Snix was to make his partner look town.
Their interaction could just be theatrics.

I don't think 1038 is fake.

Please help me figure this out… can you townread PC on any other instance of the game, besides his interaction with Snix?
Maybe look into his interactions with UP/Clap?

Eh, it's not a strong argument, but off the top of the head sheeping Tal here isn't the worst idea. He was weird but he had a couple of good takes. Don't think he would antagonize me so badly D1 with his partner basically missing from the game.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I agree, but I don't really get why scum!PC would do it either? Just seems to be PC's playstyle in general.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ideal: Flip PC then CT for me.
Will accept: CT then PC.

So you think PC is scummier than Bazuf currently? How about at day start, what was your opinion then?

For me, I think CT -> Bazuf is a town win.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Personally I'm going to wait for CT to come back, but I'm willing to sheep you here pending a personal reread on PC.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Personally I'm going to wait for CT to come back, but I'm willing to sheep you here pending a personal reread on PC.

KKFC, I'm just going to point out here that you are the only person who was voting for me at this point. That's not sheeping.

I'm talking about voting PC.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Nice.

Well done everyone. In particular, I think I learned a lot (and maybe gained some confidence in myself) this game? The pep talk from PC in the middle of Day 2 honestly meant a lot to me

[KatyKimFanClub]

when I was rereading towards the end of my casing, I did a double-take on reading your early posts again. you were transcendent this game, I wasn't joking when I said you became the main character.

What do you mean by that? :O

I am happy that in the end I figured out the scum team, though mostly that was your analysis that helped me get there.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Good Game everyone, I had fun while I lasted

You almost convinced me

[KatyKimFanClub]

when I was rereading towards the end of my casing, I did a double-take on reading your early posts again. you were transcendent this game, I wasn't joking when I said you became the main character.

What do you mean by that? :O

you showed a lot of development in your playstyle, and i think went from a reasonably passive force in the game to someone who was keeping conversation flowing & was quite essential to the game being won. pc had a similar switch, though by sheer presence i think yours was a lil more obvious. it was cool to witness.

Thanks for saying this