Newbie 2127: game over

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VOTE: Vestrea -1

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VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter. Outdated tech.

Every game, this happens. Every game.

VOTE: Vestrea -1

Um, PC, buddy, it's a

little

early for this, don't you think?

early for what, a wagon?

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No, it's not the metagame to do that haphazardly, unless you want to give scum the advantage. You should only do it to people who you find scummy.

Oh, to clarify, this isn't 'I think this behavior is slightly scummy' scummy, this is 'I think there's an 80% or better chance that this player is scum'.

where's your vote?

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@CT: So you scumread PC, right?

I'm just going to chalk it up to poorly timed RVS shenanigans. For now. Though

early for what, a wagon?

Yes. Are you saying you are genuinely wagoning Vestrea? For, if so, kindly justify that.

????????????? are you good?

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????????????? are you good?

Only, let's take a step back so I don't pull a bad scumread on you again.

You voted and put Vestrea at E-1.
I said it's too early to put Vestrea at E-1.
You asked if I meant it was too early for a wagon.
I am responding that yes, it is too early for a wagon and inquiring are you implying that you were wagoning Vestrea.

Yes? No? Is that not how you're perceiving the conversation?

yes I did vote vestrea and put them at -1 hoping on a wagon.
someone else also put vestrea at -1 I think it was jason who also hopped on the wagon. I feel like you are ignoring what is happening and ignoring reality it's page 2 or are completely unsure of what is going on. it's weird how you turned me trying to get a reaction from vestrea and people by putting them at -1 and jason doing the same thing and then saying well they put vestrea at -1 this means they genuinely believe vestrea is scum and are wagoning them to death. lolque???????????

VOTE: chicagotypewriter

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CT -
Would like a response to my vote and reasoning.

I'm still unsure as to PC's motives. If it genuinely was him wagoning, I will vote him; but I think it might just be him trying to bait a reaction.

it was genuinely me wagoning vestrea now vote me.

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I'll be back tomorrow, but honestly it reads like he just chose to reply to Jason because he was the first person to put Vestrea at E-1 and he didn't call anyone else out because it was a metagame commentary and not really a scumread on anyone.

you say that but now that chicago has released his reads he is scumreading me so i don't understand your point.

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CT -
Would like a response to my vote and reasoning.

I'm still unsure as to PC's motives. If it genuinely was him wagoning, I will vote him; but I think it might just be him trying to bait a reaction.

it was genuinely me wagoning vestrea now vote me.

When you say "wagon" do you mean you were voting for vestrea because you thought they were scum? Or did you do it for another reason (like randomly voting or because you felt like it or to get a reaction)?

how do you interpret my vote? I'll give you an explanation after you answer.

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I'll be back tomorrow, but honestly it reads like he just chose to reply to Jason because he was the first person to put Vestrea at E-1 and he didn't call anyone else out because it was a metagame commentary and not really a scumread on anyone.

you say that but now that chicago has released his reads he is scumreading me so i don't understand your point.

He is literally saying he will vote you conditionally on your clarifying something. I don't see how it's helpful to town to leave things ambiguous especially since this isn't some super complex gamestate thing it's based on the definition of wagon.

It's quite apparent to me that you two are operating with two different definitions of wagon. CT seems to be confused as to whether you are voting Vestrea for any actions or posts from this game that make Vestrea scum.

Do you think his definition is a fair interpretation of what happened? It baffles me how people think oh it's just a simple misunderstanding are you all dumbtelling rn?

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I'll be back tomorrow, but honestly it reads like he just chose to reply to Jason because he was the first person to put Vestrea at E-1 and he didn't call anyone else out because it was a metagame commentary and not really a scumread on anyone.

you say that but now that chicago has released his reads he is scumreading me so i don't understand your point.

I will clarify this some more. Chicago replied to you saying more or less "look guys we shouldn't be putting people at E-1 unless we're pretty confident they're scum". He didn't say this afterwards after it was done again because his comment was not directed at anyone specifically, but rather to the entire game. So there was no need to repeat it. He didn't say PC was 80% scum and the sooner we all acknowledge that the better off town will be.

what????????????? that is exactly what he said.

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CT -
Would like a response to my vote and reasoning.

I'm still unsure as to PC's motives. If it genuinely was him wagoning, I will vote him; but I think it might just be him trying to bait a reaction.

it was genuinely me wagoning vestrea now vote me.

When you say "wagon" do you mean you were voting for vestrea because you thought they were scum? Or did you do it for another reason (like randomly voting or because you felt like it or to get a reaction)?

how do you interpret my vote? I'll give you an explanation after you answer.

Reaction bait.

okay yes. my vote wasn't random. I saw a wagon and I put it at -1 to see what would happen since rvs is boring.

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I'll be back tomorrow, but honestly it reads like he just chose to reply to Jason because he was the first person to put Vestrea at E-1 and he didn't call anyone else out because it was a metagame commentary and not really a scumread on anyone.

you say that but now that chicago has released his reads he is scumreading me so i don't understand your point.

He is literally saying he will vote you conditionally on your clarifying something. I don't see how it's helpful to town to leave things ambiguous especially since this isn't some super complex gamestate thing it's based on the definition of wagon.

It's quite apparent to me that you two are operating with two different definitions of wagon. CT seems to be confused as to whether you are voting Vestrea for any actions or posts from this game that make Vestrea scum.

Do you think his definition is a fair interpretation of what happened? It baffles me how people think oh it's just a simple misunderstanding are you all dumbtelling rn?

Dude what are you even saying? "Fair interpretation of what happened?". YOU TELL ME! I don't know why you voted Vestrea so I literally cannot answer this question. I'm not the one at the center of the misunderstanding so I'm not sure why you're speaking to me in this way.

and what way am i speaking to you????? I'm asking you with your understanding without me saying anything do you think what chicago is saying is fair and accurate. Is his reaction to what happened makes sense to you. is his "misunderstanding" a fair one.

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I don't know why you're arguing this when it's apparent you didn't actually read CT's most recent posts. Now we have the sort this mess to figure out if you do this as scum or you're just being a really bad member of town right now.

okay what posts do you want me to read since apparently I didn't read them.

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Not quoting to remove some clutter. You're clearly abusing the word "definition" in 112. When I say definition, I clearly am referring to the word "wagon". I'm not sure how I can answer "Do you think his definition is a fair interpretation of what happened" considering I didn't know at the time why you voted for Vestrea. I don't know if his definition applies but I clearly stated what I thought he meant by "wagon" versus what you thought you meant by "wagon".

it doesn't matter what anyone of us me or chicago mean by wagon kfc what I am trying to say is that you are clearly interpreting what happened with how I intended it. Chicago is saying and has said anyone who puts someone at -1 this early in the game is much more likely to be scum and didn't vote me or something, he is saying I PC think vestrea is scum and voted him to put him up for elimination. I am asking you is what chicago doing makes sense to you without him clarifying and dancing and explaning what he actually meant. Idk I'm asking you to scumhunt. this is a game their are motives to everything. i don't know how to make it any clearer.

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I suggest you carefully reread your thread with me and your original thread with CT. It's very obvious that you have misread multiple things that are going on and are not operating with the same information as everyone else.

I've asked you to point out what you want me to reread. don't be lazy. point it out.

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I don't know how I can make this more clear. I will try to explain chronologically.

1) You misinterpreted CT when he said the thing about 80% scum. He was not calling you 80% scum but saying that we should not be wagoning/voting to E-1 Vestrea this early in Day 1 for people unless we're confident they are scum. At this point, a lot of reads such as Delta's or your's based on this comment are null because y'all did not read the original comment correctly.

2) When you asked CT why he wasn't voting you, that's because, once again, he didn't think you were 80% likely to be scum. Then there was a mutual ask for clarification as to why you were voting for Vestrea. CT said if you were wagoning he will vote for you. I saw this comment going poorly since you guys disagreed on what it meant to "wagon" someone as early as post 41.

3) Once you responded that you were going for reactions, I no longer had an interest in this thread as long as everyone understood what was going on.

okay let's say I accept all of this kfc. let's say it was a misinterpretation and that we have different definitions of wagon. are you saying we're both town? why are you whiteknighting him? are you saying I should back off him? what do you kfc want from me?

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okay let's say I accept all of this kfc. let's say it was a misinterpretation and that we have different definitions of wagon. are you saying we're both town? why are you whiteknighting him? are you saying I should back off him? what do you kfc want from me?

3) Once you responded that you were going for reactions, I no longer had an interest in this thread as long as everyone understood what was going on.

As for the whole thing with CT being misinterpreted en masse from 33, I do think I deserve points (may or may not correlate with town points) for being the only person to parse what was going on correctly. My next task will be to look at the reactions to CT's messages to see if they're genuine. I think I buy Jason's push on CT being a big reaction test, but that's not necessarily really town indicative. It didn't make any sense for CT to say someone is 80% scum and then not vote them, and I think if we all look back at that now it's pretty apparent.

I still am a little baffled by PC's reaction to the entire thing. I'll wait for them to come back and see how everything gets resolved.

I don't know yet. I went into this being really confused about your play and not really having a read on CT since all he's really done is make the original comment and then fight the responses. I'm not sure what you mean by whiteknight but I hope it's clear enough that my original purpose bringing all these things up was to clear up miscommunications in various threads and not to defend CT, especially since he was never under any real pressure?

I think a fitting conclusion to this thread would be me once again bringing up the fact that I was basically the only person in this entire fucking game thread to actually read CT's comments and reactions and come to the correct conclusions about things. I'm not bringing this up to brag, I think it's truly a little suspicious (especially after last game which a lot of us were in) that I would be ahead of the curve on this and I'm wondering if people were possibly intentionally misinterpreting CT either to get reactions or just get an easy push off as scum.

VOTE: KityKimFanClub

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Why don't you tell me what I've done that scum-aligned PC? Do you think the team is me and CT?

you're saying you can't sort me or ct. I've asked you what you wanted me to do since it was supposedly a big misunderstanding and misinterpretation. you're saying you don't know what you want me to do you just want everyone to know how town you are. you're saying you went into this being confused about my play are you still confused? I'm trying to find scum here what are you trying to do? not let people air out their disagreements and come to a conclusion about what they both said, not get a read on either of them, not asking me to move my vote since from your point of view it's a bad vote after I asked you what you wanted from me. who do you think is scum kfc.

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you're saying you can't sort me or ct.

I'm confused about how you think I can sort CT at this point. He hasn't done anything this game. I already said I was confused by your play. It's hard for me to sort people when their play is confusing. Yes, I want people to know how town I am.

I've asked you what you wanted me to do since it was supposedly a big misunderstanding and misinterpretation.

"Supposedly". Your ego is out of control for how bad you are at parsing comments. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT BASICALLY EVERYTHING THIS GAME HOW ARE YOU TAKING THIS TONE LOL. Honestly I want you to 1) reread the entire game, particularly CT's original comment and admit you were wrong about thinking he scumread you on Page 2 and then 2) start over and give new reads under the understanding that you were wrong.

I'm trying to find scum here what are you trying to do? not let people air out their disagreements and come to a conclusion about what they both said, not get a read on either of them, not asking me to move my vote since from your point of view it's a bad vote after I asked you what you wanted from me.

I am trying to make this game playable for town.

who do you think is scum kfc.

I don't know yet. I already posted my reads earlier but obviously you didn't read that since you don't read anything.

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Your posting style infuriates me. I honestly think you calling me KFC and then KityKimFanClub is just to irritate me. The nice thing is that town can win this game without you.

it's interesting how you're moving the goal posts. because in 105 you talk about me and ct and how you are confused and want to wait to see how it gets resolved. then jump in and start asking me questions instead of waiting to see how it gets resolved. this whole game you have been a remora with the discussion between me and ct. your entire content is basically oh this is a huge misunderstanding and calling bazuf town. my play is not confusing it is very straight forward and consistent.

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It's actually fucking hilarious how you tunneled and scumread a guy because you couldn't read his comment correctly and now you're doing the same to me because I made it obvious to you.

Get your ego in check.

are you ok?

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it's interesting how you're moving the goal posts. because in 105 you talk about me and ct and how you are confused and want to wait to see how it gets resolved. then jump in and start asking me questions instead of waiting to see how it gets resolved. this whole game you have been a remora with the discussion between me and ct. your entire content is basically oh this is a huge misunderstanding and calling bazuf town. my play is not confusing it is very straight forward and consistent.

I'm not the kind of player who is going to look at someone (you) not understanding what is going on and not try to resolve it. The last sentence of this quote is actually correct. Your play has been straightforward and consistently bad in that you're tunneling someone for a false reason. The reason I'm confused is why you refuse to admit that you're wrong.

who am I tunneling? I unvoted ct. and I found a new vein to mine. I voted you this page. What do you want me to admit I'm wrong about, ct?

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it's interesting how you're moving the goal posts. because in 105 you talk about me and ct and how you are confused and want to wait to see how it gets resolved. then jump in and start asking me questions instead of waiting to see how it gets resolved. this whole game you have been a remora with the discussion between me and ct. your entire content is basically oh this is a huge misunderstanding and calling bazuf town. my play is not confusing it is very straight forward and consistent.

I'm not the kind of player who is going to look at someone (you) not understanding what is going on and not try to resolve it. The last sentence of this quote is actually correct. Your play has been straightforward and consistently bad in that you're tunneling someone for a false reason. The reason I'm confused is why you refuse to admit that you're wrong.

who am I tunneling? I unvoted ct. and I found a new vein to mine. I voted you this page. What do you want me to admit I'm wrong about, ct?

Yes! Admit that your original scumread was bad and based on the fact that you misinterpreted something! And then come up with a new read that isn't based on that interaction. You only scumread me because your ego got hurt. Your case as to why you think I'm scum is weak as fuck and blatantly wrong (see previous post).

firstly that's now why I'm scumreading you I already said why I voted you

" you're saying you can't sort me or ct. I've asked you what you wanted me to do since it was supposedly a big misunderstanding and misinterpretation. you're saying you don't know what you want me to do you just want everyone to know how town you are. you're saying you went into this being confused about my play are you still confused? I'm trying to find scum here what are you trying to do? not let people air out their disagreements and come to a conclusion about what they both said, not get a read on either of them, not asking me to move my vote since from your point of view it's a bad vote after I asked you what you wanted from me. who do you think is scum kfc."

my ego isn't hurt I promise you anything like tone or whatever you're interpreting to get your feelings hurt is all in your head. My original scumread is not bad at all. clapsaid

VOTE: Vestrea

OMGUS or to start a

wagon

...you decide.

BTW my daughter is getting married tomorrow. Rehearsal dinner is tonight. So I won't be doing much until Monday.

here they talk about a wagon, later deltabreedy joins the wagon

Hi everyone.

I moved house today, lots of cleaning and that tomorrow, plus the British Grand Prix (McLaren fan, so losing my shit) plus a mahoosive MP game of Stellaris so I will not be around much tomorrow, as a warning.

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Wagons are fun

, and I like things that go very fast, so VOTE: Vestrea

All aboard!

E-2

then after that I join the wagon and put vestrea at -1. chicago says it's to early for that don't I think or something. he then says in 32 that no it's not the metagame to put someone at -1 even though you kfc have played different games than ct and have a different interpretation of the meta, but ct says you're wrong for some reason whatever okay. then ct follows that up and says the behavior of putting someone at -1 isn't slightly scummy it's 80% chance that they are scum.

delta breedy then follows up and says do you think it's a serious wagon or something in the next post

then ct asks if I am genuinely WAGONING vestrea. A couple people have already mentioned the term wagon as hopping on someone who has a vote on them already I believe that is more than enough context to decipher how people use the term wagon on this forum. and I'm pretty sure if I go through ct's games I can find him using the term wagon the same exact way. Considering it was rvs there is ZERO chance I thought vestrea was scum since they basically had like a post. then in post 73 chicago says something like it's rvs not a wagon even though their is plenty of context to show how people are using the term wagon where he is replying to my post in post 43 where I said I was doing it for a reaction. I think he is lying about that yeah.

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okay let's say I accept all of this kfc. let's say it was a misinterpretation and that we have different definitions of wagon. are you saying we're both town? why are you whiteknighting him? are you saying I should back off him? what do you kfc want from me?

There is an irony in you claiming that I'm trying to shut conversation down and then asking these questions. They're all intended to end the conversation and move it to a new topic. You were initially mad that I started this thread, claiming that I originally said I would wait for it to get resolved and then jumped in, and now you ask these questions because you want to move from discussing things to the consequences of it.

I'm not mad kfc, I'm having a conversation with you. I have stayed on and interacted with you instead of telling you to wait and see what chicago says because it's what you wanted to interact with me. I'm comfortable discussing anything you want. in the above thing you quote your answer to that was I admit I don't know what I want you to do I am completely clueless which is fine with me but it does make me question your motive for starting the discussion with me. I didn't accuse you of shutting down a conversation that is what happened. or do you disagree that this line of thread that we are talking about has made the disucssion with me and ct moot?

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firstly that's now why I'm scumreading you I already said why I voted you

my ego isn't hurt I promise you anything like tone or whatever you're interpreting to get your feelings hurt is all in your head. My original scumread is not bad at all.

Do you think his definition is a fair interpretation of what happened? It baffles me how people think oh it's just a simple misunderstanding are you all dumbtelling rn?

what????????????? that is exactly what he said.

Calling me Kity, KFC, etc. It's quite obvious your tone was meant to me offensive, so yes, it is quite appropriate that I am offended.

huh? you're mad I mispelled your name and am calling you kfc? umm okay I'm sorry. idk. why don't you say something if you're bothered by it. like hey stop calling me this I want to be called this.

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huh? you're mad I mispelled your name and am calling you kfc? umm okay I'm sorry. idk. why don't you say something if you're bothered by it. like hey stop calling me this I want to be called this.

I LITERALLY DID TWICE. IF YOU READ MY POSTS LIKE A TOWN-SIDED PLAYER IS SUPPOSED TO YOU WOULD SEE THEM.

so what do you want me to call you? KKFC?

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then ct follows that up and says the behavior of putting someone at -1 isn't slightly scummy it's 80% chance that they are scum.

That is

NOT

what he said. This is my entire point. I'm going to take a step back and ask.

Do you need help understanding why that's not what he said in any grammatical sense?

I don't think Vestrea should claim? Seems to be the metagame to get people to E-1 very early on Day 1's.

No, it's not the metagame to do that haphazardly, unless you want to give scum the advantage. You should only do it to people who you find scummy.

He says in 32 you (the voter) should only do it (put at E-1) to people who you find scummy.

No, it's not the metagame to do that haphazardly, unless you want to give scum the advantage. You should only do it to people who you find scummy.

Oh, to clarify, this isn't 'I think this behavior is slightly scummy' scummy, this is 'I think there's an 80% or better chance that this player is scum'.

He follows up in 33. He's referring to the same scummy between the two posts (32, 33). He's not saying YOUR behavior is 80% scummy, the scummy behavior he's talking about is the person who is being put to E-1. The reference to "scummy" between the two posts is the same and consistent to the behavior referring to the hypothetical player here (Vestrea).

sure explain it to me grammatically, because I the voter did put someone at -1 how is that not in his world scummy. to me what you're saying here is a huge stretch.

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why don't you say something if you're bothered by it. like hey stop calling me this I want to be called this.

Calling me Kity, KFC, etc. It's quite obvious your tone was meant to me offensive, so yes, it is quite appropriate that I am offended.

Your posting style infuriates me. I honestly think you calling me KFC and then KityKimFanClub is just to irritate me. The nice thing is that town can win this game without you.

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so what do you want me to call you? KKFC?

I disagree Jason - in the mutual game that you,

KKFC

and I had yes they were town, but I disagree that growth is indicative of a non-scum game. This could easily be

KKFC

being cautious scum

KKFC

is right, to clarify, when I said 80%, I meant this early in Day 1, not all of Day 1 (which I didn't clarify in the post, but was the context of what I replied to). I've put people at E-1 without being 80% sure, but the context for that was a little more necessary than the current situation.

Can you just like, do better? If you're town you're really struggling.

Also @Jason, I'd prefer KKFC, Katy, or KatyKimFanClub from now on if you can.

you're getting mad at me for you not asserting yourself why don't you do better.

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why don't you say something if you're bothered by it. like hey stop calling me this I want to be called this.

Calling me Kity, KFC, etc. It's quite obvious your tone was meant to me offensive, so yes, it is quite appropriate that I am offended.

Your posting style infuriates me. I honestly think you calling me KFC and then KityKimFanClub is just to irritate me. The nice thing is that town can win this game without you.

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so what do you want me to call you? KKFC?

I disagree Jason - in the mutual game that you,

KKFC

and I had yes they were town, but I disagree that growth is indicative of a non-scum game. This could easily be

KKFC

being cautious scum

KKFC

is right, to clarify, when I said 80%, I meant this early in Day 1, not all of Day 1 (which I didn't clarify in the post, but was the context of what I replied to). I've put people at E-1 without being 80% sure, but the context for that was a little more necessary than the current situation.

Can you just like, do better? If you're town you're really struggling.

Also @Jason, I'd prefer KKFC, Katy, or KatyKimFanClub from now on if you can.

you're getting mad at me for you not asserting yourself why don't you do better.

Now you are just being a dick. I literally quoted two times where I said it bothered me when you called me Kity or KFC. You are a actually just a troll.

okay I am only going to engage with you on this once. If you want to get nasty I can get nasty. Because during all that time you never said hey call me x or call me y. I misspelled your name. I ommitted a letter from your abbreviation. I said I was sorry. but you had no problem telling jason after I told you hey if you want me to call you something tell me I can't read your mind. you being selectively outraged suddenly after I scum read you is completely and totally shitty of you

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okay I am only going to engage with you on this once. If you want to get nasty I can get nasty. Because during all that time you never said hey call me x or call me y. I misspelled your name. I ommitted a letter from your abbreviation. I said I was sorry. but you had no problem telling jason after I told you hey if you want me to call you something tell me I can't read your mind. you being selectively outraged suddenly after I scum read you is completely and totally shitty of you

Jason hasn't posted since I told him not to do it? You did and then said it was

my fault

even though I literally said you were doing it to be offensive. In what world would you continue

unless that was your plan

? The blatant victim blaming either tells me you are either a troll or intentionally doing it as gameplay. In which case you are scum.

I said I was sorry I owned it. I wouldn't have apologized if I thought it was your fault, and I'm not in anyway blaming you. you are crazy.

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okay I am only going to engage with you on this once. If you want to get nasty I can get nasty. Because during all that time you never said hey call me x or call me y. I misspelled your name. I ommitted a letter from your abbreviation. I said I was sorry. but you had no problem telling jason after I told you hey if you want me to call you something tell me I can't read your mind. you being selectively outraged suddenly after I scum read you is completely and totally shitty of you

Jason hasn't posted since I told him not to do it? You did and then said it was

my fault

even though I literally said you were doing it to be offensive. In what world would you continue

unless that was your plan

? The blatant victim blaming either tells me you are either a troll or intentionally doing it as gameplay. In which case you are scum.

you didn't tell me not to do it. I had to ask you what you wanted to be called since you couldn't do it

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You said you were sorry then said it was my fault? That's not a real apology.

okay i'm sorry I mispelled your name I'm sorry I called you kity i'm sorry I called you kfc

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You said you were sorry then said it was my fault? That's not a real apology.

okay i'm sorry I mispelled your name I'm sorry I called you kity i'm sorry I called you kfc

Loving the strategy of apologies sandwiched between comments blaming me for a lack of assertiveness! Really good plan to prove you aren't a troll.

you are being ridiculous right now. you've called me a dick, pathetic, and a troll. I mispelled your name. what would make you satisfied?

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you didn't tell me not to do it. I had to ask you what you wanted to be called since you couldn't do it

Why are you acting like I need to hold your hand and tell you what my name is and you have no clue otherwise? I have a username on this site. If you look to the left of this post above my avatar and pronouns you can see it.

you're acting like i'm doing it maliciously and refuse to accept my apology and are hurling insults at me are you not expecting me to defend myself?

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You said you were sorry then said it was my fault? That's not a real apology.

okay i'm sorry I mispelled your name I'm sorry I called you kity i'm sorry I called you kfc

Loving the strategy of apologies sandwiched between comments blaming me for a lack of assertiveness! Really good plan to prove you aren't a troll.

you are being ridiculous right now. you've called me a dick, pathetic, and a troll. I mispelled your name. what would make you satisfied?

I would like an apology that doesn't involve blaming me for not giving you a name to call me? Just admit full responsibility then if you would like to return to gameplay respond to 162.

sure. I called you kfc and kity it was wrong of me I'm sorry.

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sure. I called you kfc and kity it was wrong of me I'm sorry.

Ok, and I'm sorry for the language that I used. If you would like to move on and back to gameplay, can you respond to 162?

I can see what you are saying here, but my problem remains the same. let's say I grant you all of this. their is no way his misunderstanding of what a wagon is in the context of people referring to wagoning people during rvs is remotely valid. I think he is intentionally dumbtelling by not knowing what I meant. because in post 43 is say I was looking for a reaction. the whole from ct is just scum overall.

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I am okay with a chicago lim a kkfc lim a dwarf lim and a bazuf lim. I'll look to narrow this down to two.

[Political Clout]

I'm reading rn I don't see anything I want to respond to. I think I am in a lazy mood. I'll be on for another few hours.

[Political Clout]

This KKFC vs PC just really got out of hand.
Now that things have calmed down…

KKFC, do you maintain your scumread on PC?
Is it purely based on his misunderstanding of CT comments?

And PC, you said “the whole from ct is just scum overall”.
Is this just based on him questioning your intent on the Vestrea wagon, or do you find any other of his comments to be scummy?
Since your vote is on KKFC, do you think that the scum team might be KKFC/CT?


Also, I want to point out that we practically haven’t heard from Claptastik and Vestrea.
Care to share some thoughts?

it's interesting how you're moving the goal posts. because in 105 you talk about me and ct and how you are confused and want to wait to see how it gets resolved. then jump in and start asking me questions instead of waiting to see how it gets resolved. this whole game you have been a remora with the discussion between me and ct. your entire content is basically oh this is a huge misunderstanding and calling bazuf town. my play is not confusing it is very straight forward and consistent.

I'm not the kind of player who is going to look at someone (you) not understanding what is going on and not try to resolve it. The last sentence of this quote is actually correct. Your play has been straightforward and consistently bad in that you're tunneling someone for a false reason. The reason I'm confused is why you refuse to admit that you're wrong.

who am I tunneling? I unvoted ct. and I found a new vein to mine. I voted you this page. What do you want me to admit I'm wrong about, ct?

Yes! Admit that your original scumread was bad and based on the fact that you misinterpreted something! And then come up with a new read that isn't based on that interaction. You only scumread me because your ego got hurt. Your case as to why you think I'm scum is weak as fuck and blatantly wrong (see previous post).

firstly that's now why I'm scumreading you I already said why I voted you

" you're saying you can't sort me or ct. I've asked you what you wanted me to do since it was supposedly a big misunderstanding and misinterpretation. you're saying you don't know what you want me to do you just want everyone to know how town you are. you're saying you went into this being confused about my play are you still confused? I'm trying to find scum here what are you trying to do? not let people air out their disagreements and come to a conclusion about what they both said, not get a read on either of them, not asking me to move my vote since from your point of view it's a bad vote after I asked you what you wanted from me. who do you think is scum kfc."

my ego isn't hurt I promise you anything like tone or whatever you're interpreting to get your feelings hurt is all in your head. My original scumread is not bad at all. clapsaid

VOTE: Vestrea

OMGUS or to start a

wagon

...you decide.

BTW my daughter is getting married tomorrow. Rehearsal dinner is tonight. So I won't be doing much until Monday.

here they talk about a wagon, later deltabreedy joins the wagon

Hi everyone.

I moved house today, lots of cleaning and that tomorrow, plus the British Grand Prix (McLaren fan, so losing my shit) plus a mahoosive MP game of Stellaris so I will not be around much tomorrow, as a warning.

---

Wagons are fun

, and I like things that go very fast, so VOTE: Vestrea

All aboard!

E-2

then after that I join the wagon and put vestrea at -1. chicago says it's to early for that don't I think or something. he then says in 32 that no it's not the metagame to put someone at -1 even though you kfc have played different games than ct and have a different interpretation of the meta, but ct says you're wrong for some reason whatever okay. then ct follows that up and says the behavior of putting someone at -1 isn't slightly scummy it's 80% chance that they are scum.

delta breedy then follows up and says do you think it's a serious wagon or something in the next post

then ct asks if I am genuinely WAGONING vestrea. A couple people have already mentioned the term wagon as hopping on someone who has a vote on them already I believe that is more than enough context to decipher how people use the term wagon on this forum. and I'm pretty sure if I go through ct's games I can find him using the term wagon the same exact way. Considering it was rvs there is ZERO chance I thought vestrea was scum since they basically had like a post. then in post 73 chicago says something like it's rvs not a wagon even though their is plenty of context to show how people are using the term wagon where he is replying to my post in post 43 where I said I was doing it for a reaction. I think he is lying about that yeah.

[Political Clout]

I was going to write more hence the lines but lost my train of thought. KKFC & PC reads as town v Town. I don't think KKFC emotion there was faked and tbh I think PC reacted well to the exchange. TvT for me.

KKFC does come off as frustrated town. I also think it's likely TvT (as noted earlier), but there's a possibility PC is scum. He wasn't as genuine as KKFC, and some scum love to get into a 1v1 early to get town reads.

can you point out where you think kkfc is more sincere or authentic than me? because that is some skill that you have for being able to figure this out.

[Political Clout]

I think it's reasonable for CT to think PC is scum after more interactions.

Eh, I'm kind of lukewarm on it right now, though that might just be because Political Clout hasn't followed up any of this yet. I wouldn't have voted ordinarily, except I did say I would. It's still a mild scumread for me.

why are you still using me as a crutch for the game? weird but okay. your whole play has been I said I would vote him so now I am and now I'm saying it again because reasons and everyone needs to know that I am voting him because I said I would vote him.

[Political Clout]

I'm going to sleep now. very weird how ct isn't voting bazuf after his cardinal sin of putting someone at -1 so they would share more of their thoughts guess ct forgot.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: claptastik back to -1

[Political Clout]

UNVOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

Would share Typewriter's sentiment that moving someone to -1 is unnecessary at such an early stage.

Are you worried about a lolhammer?

Day 1 we're up against the odds voting out scum anyways, but would prefer to get an actual roleclaim from Vestrea if this is a serious wagon. More likely it's just being done to get reactions.

why did you unvote chicago typewriter here and not vote anyone else since it was still rvs? I've seen a lot of unvotes during rvs but they all were followed by voting someone else. you don't vote anyone till page 8 when you vote claptastik. something is also bugging me about your reads I'll keep staring at that post until I figure out what it is. and your read of me is also weird independently because after this post agreeing with chicago where you agree with my sentiment that it is just to get reactions you say there was nothing in the wagon while chicago is claiming that I am wagoning vestrea to death on page 1 which you are aware of because in your next post you hem and haw about delta voting you saying like 'come on nothing in the wagon anyways'. also I don't see why I'm lean scum in your reads list.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

you have me PC, claptastik, and vestrea as lean scum.
you have kkfc, chicago, bazuf, and jason as lean town.
and you weirdly have delta breedy as null.

The reads to me are weird too now that I think about it more. Like the snippit under the read doesn't really follow. You're basically saying this happened but not saying why it makes them town or scum.

- Political Clout (SE) - Null, lean scum
- KatyKimFanClub - Null, lean town
I think the argument was unnecessary and unhelpful for town as a whole. I have no doubt in my mind now that they're not scum together, but I feel like Katy's points stood up a bit more in context. I somewhat share Delta's "guh" response to the whole situation.

I would say that Katy's calling for a 1v1 so firmly puts their neck on the line if PC turns out to be Town.

- Claptastik - Null, lean scum.
Semi active and posts are very limited in content aside from some minor prodding. My question to him would be to point out his thoughts based on his assessment of finished games from 97.

- ChicagoTypewriter - Lean town
Reads were entirely reasonable and has been pointing out some of the shaky logic regarding the early/quick wagoning. Nothing from CT's posts vibes as scummy to me with day 1 info.

- Bazuf - Null, lean Town
Would like to see more posts or takes on what's going on but logic has been driven similarly to CT. Maybe fence sitting a bit more than I would like.

- Vestrea* - Null, lean scum
Inactive. If replaced that would be more enlightening, if not, this inactivity after being prompted for info is scummy, esp. after initially posting in thread.

- JasonWazza (SE) - Lean town
I disagree with moving Vestrea back to E-1 in the way Jason did but since then the following votes have been to apply pressure in the interest of information gathering and that has worked out fairly well so far.

- DeltaBreedy (SE) - Null
I think Delta's general style of play is just aggressive based on past games I've read of theirs. I think driving a point on my concern over going to E-1 early was unnecessary but was another attempt to get a reaction following on from the vote. The reaction to the argument between Katy and PC kind of summed up my own feelings on the matter as a townie and seemed appropriate.

VOTE: Claptastik for now as I want to get more activity out of them.

okay here is the post where dwarf gives their reads list.

claptastik is scum for the same reason vestrea is scum for their inactivity. I feel like that's a really lazy way to scumread someone or you have a problem coming up with a lie to scumread someone so are going for lowhanging fruit because you're scum.

can you explain where ct pointed out shaky logic during the early wagoning because all he said with regards to that was hey pc a little early for that and what about his reads did you find reasonable because indirectly you are agreeing with his read of delta that they're scum, but have delta in your reads as null.

I feel like bazuf's snippet is not deserving of a town read at all because you're complaining about how you want to see more posts he is logical like ct buthe fence sits more than you would like. To me personally that doesn't sound like a town read at all but okay.

you call jason town but don't like that he put vestrea slot back at -1 a bit weird to me because usually a town read comes with hey I liked that they did this not hey I dislike that they did this. Then said that their votes have been applying pressure to people to information gather and has worked out well. The crux of the point that you're making is that you like the gathering information. okay fine. but wouldn't a reaction to putting at someone at -1 also gather information?

:igmeoy:

as an aside I remember the tabs for the bbcode being different or am I misremembering?

[Political Clout]

I'm okay with a chicago lim a dwarf lim and a mikhail tal lim.

[Political Clout]

your voting clap though?

trying to sort clap currently since I've been ignoring a lot of people and focusing on like 2 and trying to see what chicago says about it and trying to see what kkfc says to what chicago says and then I'm going to ask kkfc for their read on chicago since they never gave one and have been shyly calling them maybe scum. 5 days left I think I can consolidate my reads even more. Plus chicago is still really bothering me since mosts of his posts are about me he posted a reads list and then subsequently pseudo agrees with everything everyone said.

[Political Clout]

also I've been reading the beginning of the day over and over again as you can guess from my post about dwarf. I think bazuf is probably town for voting delta when they did.

[Political Clout]

You only say that because you have only seen scum game Bazuf.

That's true :]
This is really RVS, but I have played two games with scum!Jason.
Hope this one we have a town!Jason.

How is he dangerous?

He's a very experienced player.
If he's scum, he seems to be a very townie scum...

Can you link to one or both of those games or provide the number? I'd like to look at them.

did you look at the games because later on you said you aren't doing that so which is it?

Like here is how i think i interpret what has happened between KKFC/PC

PC was trying to point KKFC into directions to actually start giving his actual thoughts, and not just be defending CT.

KKFC is mostly just focused on the previous point that he was making, and thinks that is a major sticking point, even though PC has moved on and focused on getting more information out of their interaction.

Yabut do you get anything about their alignments from it?

How about you give some actual thoughts before continuing to ask thoughts, what are your baseline reads at this point?

I've said two players look town and implied that one is scummy. That's actual thoughts on 3 out of 7 players (not counting myself of course, and vestrea who isn't posting). More to come, thinking about how to proceed on others, and waiting on an answer or two.

Where is the more to come because you're doing the whole song and dance now about not giving reads and people are holding you to a higher standard and even if you do give reads it won't matter. What answer or two were you waiting for?

can you point out where you think kkfc is more sincere or authentic than me? because that is some skill that you have for being able to figure this out.

Sure. Either you were only skimming his posts, or you were purposely calling him kfc after he had asked you to stop. Both of those are insincere.

So am I scum or town? because you told jason that skimming is something only scum do. and can you point out where kkfc asked me to stop? because I don't see it.

- Claptastik - Null, lean scum.
Semi active and posts are very limited in content aside from some minor prodding. My question to him would be to point out his thoughts based on his assessment of finished games from 97.

Ah, now I recall. you wanted me to

read entire games

of Jason and give my thoughts on them. That's an unreasonable request. Rather than note that I simply ignored it, as I assume other people think the same thing.

That said, I do have some thoughts on them:

- We were in early D1 at that point. Jason replaced into both of them later in D1, so there's no early game comparisons to be made.

- I have some notes on his voting patterns which I'm not going to share. If he's scum this game and I note the patterns, he'll just adapt. It's bad even having to say this much.

please share why are you thinking about future games focus on this one and win this one.

I'm pretty sure that nothing I say is going to change your reads on me at this point. I could put up a full reads list and you'll just say it's desperation, or parroting other people, or whatever. I got a late start. I gave reads but in few words. The day phase is so long I didn't think I needed to solve the entire game so soon, but I guess I was wrong. Do what you want.

Why do you think that? I don't think anyone has said anything like that.

[Political Clout]

your voting clap though?

trying to sort clap currently since I've been ignoring a lot of people and focusing on like 2 and trying to see what chicago says about it and trying to see what kkfc says to what chicago says and then I'm going to ask kkfc for their read on chicago since they never gave one and have been shyly calling them maybe scum. 5 days left I think I can consolidate my reads even more. Plus chicago is still really bothering me since mosts of his posts are about me he posted a reads list and then subsequently pseudo agrees with everything everyone said.

So if I was to intent, you wouldn't be keeping your vote there?

There's a very big part of me that would think it would be a great reaction test so I would be tempted to leave it to see what everyone says. There is a much more logical smaller part that would tell me that a lot of crazy stuff happens during the games and that games usually more than likely will go to elo and that people have a hard time parsing the crazy things that happen in the game. Personally since we're talking about it now and planning it I say go for it. would I unvote? maybe depending on what claptastik says and thinking about living another day without a chicago flip I would unovte yeah and try to go after chicago again for eod.

what are we really doing day 1 besides flailing around with what we think are decent reasons to lim someone and letting some poor mook die that was probably just misunderstood or misunderstood an underlying aspect of the game.

I'm totally open to hearing why claptastik should flip over chicago. I feel like every vote claptastik has gotten has freaked him out and made him defensive and lash out I wanna see why. plus I'm really only voting him because of chicago to see if he stays consistent.

[Political Clout]

please share why are you thinking about future games focus on this one and win this one.

Sorry, but I have no further desire to play on this site. Just posting once a day so mod doesn't have to replace me.

OTOH if you guys want someone who cares, just say so and I'll ask for replacement.

huh? okay ask to be replaced.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: mikhailtal

[Political Clout]

please share why are you thinking about future games focus on this one and win this one.

Sorry, but I have no further desire to play on this site. Just posting once a day so mod doesn't have to replace me.

OTOH if you guys want someone who cares, just say so and I'll ask for replacement.

@mod I believe this is a violation of rule 1 claptastik is not having fun anymore and is refusing to participate in the game he should I believe be replaced

[Political Clout]

goodnight until next morning you guys.

[Political Clout]

UNVOTE: mikhailtal

[Political Clout]

UNVOTE: mikhailtal

What's changed?

I agree with you. you made a good point.

[Political Clout]

Mikhail's post is wild and I still haven't comprehended it fully yet. Need to respond to PC's post first though.

why did you unvote chicago typewriter here and not vote anyone else since it was still rvs? I've seen a lot of unvotes during rvs but they all were followed by voting someone else. you don't vote anyone till page 8 when you vote claptastik.

Anecdotal fallacy. Just because it doesn't fit behaviour you've seen, doesn't mean it's scummy, which is what you seem to be implying.

your read of me is also weird independently because after this post agreeing with chicago where you agree with my sentiment that it is just to get reactions you say there was nothing in the wagon while chicago is claiming that I am wagoning vestrea to death on page 1 which you are aware of because in your next post you hem and haw about delta voting you saying like 'come on nothing in the wagon anyways

My opinion of you is based largely on your dumbass argument with Katy, who I am still more inclined to believe is town at this point.

There was nothing in the wagon at the point that I made that comment because Vestrea was getting replaced. Definitely did not agree with it getting to E-1, which is why I had a negative opinion of Jason for it initially, but my opinion changed as I examined his play.

claptastik is scum for the same reason vestrea is scum for their inactivity. I feel like that's a really lazy way to scumread someone or you have a problem coming up with a lie to scumread someone so are going for lowhanging fruit because you're scum.

No, read back what I actually said instead of strawmanning:

Semi active and posts are very limited in content aside from some minor prodding. My question to him would be to point out his thoughts based on his assessment of finished games from 97.

And since then, Claptastik has crumbled under a relatively small wagon including Vestrea/Mikhail's RVS and thrown his toys out the pram saying he doesn't want to play anymore (but won't ask for a replacement). That's either:

A. A very anti town move for a townie which should be criticised.
B. Even more evidence that he is actually scum.

Both Claptastik and yourself have now presented this situation that I am somehow dead set on executing Clap without any further consideration. My whole point of the vote was to get him moving, and it was his choice to seemingly run off a cliff.

can you explain where ct pointed out shaky logic during the early wagoning because all he said with regards to that was hey pc a little early for that and what about his reads did you find reasonable because indirectly you are agreeing with his read of delta that they're scum, but have delta in your reads as null.

You could just actually read CT's early posts in ISO, but if you want me to spoon feed you, 26, 32, 33, 39, 40, 42.

I feel like bazuf's snippet is not deserving of a town read at all because you're complaining about how you want to see more posts he is logical like ct buthe fence sits more than you would like. To me personally that doesn't sound like a town read at all but okay.

That's just like, your opinion? Bazuf posts just read as being town at this stage for me and have generally given insightful commentary.

you call jason town but don't like that he put vestrea slot back at -1 a bit weird to me because usually a town read comes with hey I liked that they did this not hey I dislike that they did this. Then said that their votes have been applying pressure to people to information gather and has worked out well. The crux of the point that you're making is that you like the gathering information. okay fine. but wouldn't a reaction to putting at someone at -1 also gather information?

Again, you need to actually read what I said, I critiqued Jason for that move but once he got past that, his posts have all been for info gathering and actual scum hunting.

I do find it quite curious as well that you voted Clap and then took that shot at me for no apparent reason. The immediate weirdness of this was pointed out to you by Jason and you gave a wish washy answer. Not impressed.

can you answer the question why did you unvote chicago typewriter when you did, and why did you not vote anyone else.

opinion? do you mean read? opinion implies that you are feeling some type of way about me. If you meant read that's fine. KKFC said because of that argument they think I'm town. what part of that argument makes you think I'm scum or is it the overall argument from beginning to end? Since you said it was a dumbass argument are you saying that because the arguments are dumb I'm dumb and because of that it makes me scum? I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

with regards to jason you're saying you were unhappy with his putting at someone at -1, but then examined his play and that leads you to think he's town. What posts did you see that made you think this? at what point did you go from unhappy to satisfied?

I mean I feel like we would start to bicker semi active, inactive, not really active. ultimately what is the difference? or is there a major difference? or is the difference such that there is a fundamental difference? I don't disagree with your point about claptastik.

I feel like you are pushing back and being hostile against someone trying to sort you my question is why? I can't read your mind. I'm trying to sort you. you deflect and not answer questions with oh that's a fallacy, you make dumbass arguments, you're straw manning me, let me spoon feed you. idk. but I digress.

In the posts that you quoted from ct can you point out the logic that the poster is using and then the logic that ct points out how it is shaky I feel like you just went to his iso and picked a bunch of posts and are now caught in a lie, orby shaky logic do you mean something else?

so you're saying it's a gut read on bazuf? okay.

what about my answer was wish washy wrt to clap? one thing I can think is you guys are all posting when I'm not on I then come on the game catch up and post so there is a dissonance of when I am playing the game.

[Political Clout]

Have you read my progression in full?

yes now I have. you unvoted chicago typewriter. and said scum is probably on the wagon including dwarf and that mikhail is limbait. you call mikhail probably statistically town but it's good to remove them from the board and then call it lazy reasoning then you get into an argument with jason and said something about being bloodthirsty. overall I think there were good points so I unvoted. the speed of the wagon dwarf being on the wagon jason telling me something about if he intent to hammer clap would I remove my vote then it plays out in real time and he removes his vote overall I feel like i'm in a comedy sketch.

it's funny because i also agree with your point about the replacement if they replace in they'll basically be given carte blanche and be allowed to move on to day 2 without saying much of anything. I think our main difference is that ultimately we are both playing to achieve the best results for town I believe I am going about it one way which is trying to find scum you are going about it another way best to remove obstacles for town on someone who isn't possible to read and are not playing to win but making some sort of debut in their career.

[Political Clout]

I might not be on in the morning again btw. I better go.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: chicago typewriter

[Political Clout]

a lot going on this game. very crazy very cool. drama, replacements, death, 1 townie killed, 1 mason murdered, It's so delicious it's fattening. This game isn't a logic game but a social game. there are varied reasons and complex ones and silly ones for voting someone out. mikhailtal died because he didn't want to conform which I accept but I believe scum probably took advantage of this and voted them on their way out, I want to believe this, it's unfortunate that mikhailtal did not play toward their goal for a town win and voted themselves maybe allowing scum to not be on the wagon at all. I think if mikhail tal didn't vote for themselves it is highly likely the scum is 100% on the wagon. In short I can't say for certain that scum was on the wagon at all. I think delta waffling actually indicates town behavior. I think ct not doing anything d1 and tunneling me all day for 10 days needs to be reexamined I think claptastiks slot needs to be reexamined as well. I think independently delta's vote on mikhail tal isn't necessarily bad. I think independently bazuf's vote is bad. I still think kkfc is suspicious for always wanting town cred. never would I have imagined dwarf as the second mason if he was cc'd I would have probably voted him, depending on who cc'd him of course. From what I've read a lot of people are calling bazuf town so I think wisdom of the crowd applies and he can just be town even if mafia are calling him town it should still be good. usespython makes a strong case of meta for why kkfc is town I'm willing to entertain it for the purposes of narrowing the pool of suspects especially if kkfc is paranoid about dying as town since apparently it happened to them last game so they want to ensure they get town cred for the townie things they do.

From that I'm left with chicago usespython and delta as possible scum. Very cool.

usespython do you town read or scum read chicago? tell me why, which posts indicate that they are town or scum, and who I should be voting if not chicago. I see you are voting delta as well if you were to explain your case on them in a few sentences what would it be?

it's hard to separate what is a good argument that people are making when quite possibly emotions are mixed in I think I should just ignore the exchanges of usespython delta and kfc the last few pages especially with all the shade usespython is throwing at me without voting me but that's okay. I hope for a productive discussion.

[Political Clout]

usespython do you town read or scum read chicago? tell me why, which posts indicate that they are town or scum, and who I should be voting if not chicago. I see you are voting delta as well if you were to explain your case on them in a few sentences what would it be?

CT's in the "exists" tier along with Bazuf and we'd compromise on a lim there if PC/Delta doesn't happen. Delta on the other hand we've played with enough to see this is 100% his scumgame. As town he tunnels and those tunnels tend to be pretty bad but at the very least there's a thread of logic that makes you go "I disagree but I can see how you can logically get to your read" and he tends to go get conflicting arguments outside of his tunnel. Here I don't see any of that, his sole initial basis for the scumread + vote + tunnel on us is that town!Python would be more careful about reading the game and anyone who disagrees with him like KKFC is branded scum

it's hard to separate what is a good argument that people are making when quite possibly emotions are mixed in I think I should just ignore the exchanges of usespython delta and kfc the last few pages especially with all the shade usespython is throwing at me without voting me but that's okay. I hope for a productive discussion.

When they add multiple votes + elims in the same day phase to Newbie games I'll be sure to stop doing this, until then our vote is on Delta for being obvscum

-A

Interesting. Since this game has involved a lot of misunderstandings are you saying me and delta are the scum team or that you would be satisfied with a delta elim or a pc elim today since independently we are most likely scum? Because delta and hfd are calling you scum but dwarf is calling you and delta a scum team. Chicago is thinking that there is one scum in you usespython, bazuf, or deltabreedy and maybe one in me and kkfc personally if I was ct I would be looking at me and kkfc since it's one less person to read. and bazuf I think needs to be looked at again for his reads, or maybe he's picking up what you're putting down python because he is saying that delta is definitely playing different but doesn't say which alignment they think delta is :( which is mildly interesting I think. Bazuf fos's kkfc and doesn't know what to think between me and ct. Personally speaking I think he ought to think I'm town.

as an aside I think chicago was right and that hfd shouldn't have claimed today makes me want to unvote him. in fact encouraging the mason to claim is most likely scum sided behavior. because now that I think about it I'm not sure I would believe any of you guys if you cc'd dwarf. I'm going to reread again. Main question to myself is am I allowing myself to be wrong on my reads and how would they change? do I believe town chicago would play this poorly day 1? another question to myself is since python is pocketing kkfc are they a team? and could an alternate scum team be bazuf delta? I definitely need to reread.

in the above post python claims not to have a read on chicago but they obviously feel some type of way that is definitely not null since python claims that IF and only IF delta flips red then chicago is also most likely red.

@kkfc I'd love to hear why you think ct is town also can you give an updated reads list it helps me a lot thanks.

we are also collectively having mostly the same person in our scum reads list quite exciting I think.

also since we're being snarky with each other python if their were multiple votes I would vote you twice :^)

[Political Clout]

Interesting. Since this game has involved a lot of misunderstandings are you saying me and delta are the scum team or that you would be satisfied with a delta elim or a pc elim today since independently we are most likely scum?

I think you two are independently scummy, it's around Python = HFD >> KKFC >>>>> Bazuf = CT >> PC >>>>> Delta

Because delta and hfd are calling you scum but dwarf is calling you and delta a scum team. Chicago is thinking that there is one scum in you usespython, bazuf, or deltabreedy and maybe one in me and kkfc personally if I was ct I would be looking at me and kkfc since it's one less person to read. and bazuf I think needs to be looked at again for his reads, or maybe he's picking up what you're putting down python because he is saying that delta is definitely playing different but doesn't say which alignment they think delta is :( which is mildly interesting I think. Bazuf fos's kkfc and doesn't know what to think between me and ct. Personally speaking I think he ought to think I'm town.

Can you point us to the parts of your ISO you think Bazuf should think makes you townie?

in the above post python claims not to have a read on chicago but they obviously feel some type of way that is definitely not null since python claims that IF and only IF delta flips red then chicago is also most likely red.

Ok this is a misconception that we thought we cleared up earlier but apparently not

Delta flipping red makes PC greener and CT redder

-A

I'm not sure I follow the connection here, I'll have to ask you to expand on this as well.

Missed Delta's page 3 posting and thought his hesitance of tunneling you over letting PC do it made you seem partnered

We don't think Delta flipping red says much about CT or you anymore

so we're independently scummy but not a team together? interesting, can you point out the difference? or is the only underlying difference that if both of us die and are town not only would the game be over but you are saying you would be open to scum reading ct and bazuf? #weird. let's say delta flips scum then who would most likely be their partner? *warning* if you say me I'm going to die laughing.

I think my entire iso should make bazuf think I'm town. my opening into the game putting vestrea at -1 which was wicked sick, my willingness to move beyond the kkfc drama in every universe that I'm scum I would just have kept calling them kfc instead of kkfc since it isn't a slur, a bad word, and doesn't violate any of the rules. yesterday I was questioning hfd trying to get a better read on him and it turns out he's a pr so there's that the fact that I was wrong. from my pov I would never kill jason since he has been backing up what I've been saying and to me it looks like defending me. me as scum doesn't make sense this game. In fact jason dying points to newbie scum that are afraid of jason's reads. Weirdly enough I need to look at bazuf again since he thinks jason is dangerous. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm also check on the misconception with delta and ct and the page 3 posting whatever that means but I take away that you are no longer having that read of delta red pc green ct redder.

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UNVOTE: chicago typewriter

[Political Clout]

VOTE: bazuf

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VOTE: bazuf

Justification, please. Is this because of the vote on MikhailTal?

partly that, partly because no one pushed bazuf day 1, partly because bazuf had the lowest activity when I checked the activity overview, partly because it feels like yesterday bazuf always had kkfc in their sights but never really pushed them and now only when kkfc is pushing them do they push back.

it's funny because d1 the lim would have probably have been claptastik. and in fact I think bazuf put them at -1. in fact three conf towns are on the claptastik wagon vestrea/mikhail,hfd, and jason if claptastik is scum bazuf I don't think can be scum with them. if clap is town bazuf is probably scum and the same can be said for me since I put claptastik back to -1 but that could be wifom on my part but tbh I don't see any scum putting their partner back to -1 in that situation.

I think I am going to say that kkfc is probably town even with all the shade they keep throwing at me. What jason pointed out is also very valid about kkfc like I can dream up a kkfc/chicago team but on balance they are probably town so I'll be progressing with that read I think. The next question for me is do I trust a deadmans soulread of bazuf or do I say we should lim claptastik slot and maybe clear or condemn two people me and bazuf. imagine if clap is town and I just killed myself that'd be funny it'd be even funnier if bazuf flipped red. I should also probably examine delta because fr what they said eod made me think I shouldn't vote mikhail so them voting mikhail in that situation should be hard looked at.

personally I am open to hearing about how chicago needs to be limmed. crazy how chicago is allowed to vote someone very early d1 and continue voting them for 10 days not move at all and not comment on the mikhail tal wagon and is called town by people in the game. #veryweird. #getexamined. #seriously? like if you're town and think chicago is town just go back and read what he says d1 he basically just agrees with everyone.

now with all this being said I should UNVOTE: bazuf since my read on them is they're scum if and only if clap is town. if clap is scum it clears me and bazuf. the main flaw with this argument is only for myself since I'm basically saying me and bazuf are scum independently which I am going to have serious egg on my face if clap flips town lol. I should probably extend this argument to it's logical conclusion as well thinking about it more and should operate under the fact that bazuf should be townread by me. since I'm not scum with him. it might be a mistake for me to do this though since I am saying we are scum independently of each other.

so now town: pc, kkfc, bazuf, hfd

scum chicago, snix, delta.

you know what else would be funny if chicago is town and the scum team are snix and delta lol which I honestly don't see happening.

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funnily enough I think everyone had the same gut read as me that one of snix or delta should be limmed today infact the snix slot python might have inadvertently stumbled on this and pushed delta. That paired with the fact that two clears are thinking the same as me that it's probably one of snix and delta even chicago says as much but he leaves it much more obfuscated and doesn't take any stance on anybody except me who he is trying to appease by calling me town or he said something like he voted me in another game so I'm lukewarm. interesting turn of phrase so at the end of the day is he calling me town or scum? no clue.

[Political Clout]

chicago who would you vote delta or claptastik/python/snix?

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Honestly, I feel like I should hammer here. Worse case scenario we do go to ELO, but that all but confirms Deltabreedy and it saves Skygazer the problem of subbing in a replacement into this slot, which is probably going to get limmed anyway.

Hear me out. We should be voting outside Clap/UP vs. Delta because we will struggle in endgame if we don't get info from the replacement.

Interesting. Who do you propose?

Who do you propose?

I wanted to try within the usesPython/Deltabreedy and was looking at limming usesPython with good cause. Right now; if you want to lim someone else, you make the proposal. The only common ground between the two of us given those constraints is Bazuf and PC. Do you have a good scumcase on either of them right now which is better than the scumcase on Deltabreedy or usesPython?

nvm. I found it. it's weird that chicago would lim usespython because he is scumreading delta iirc. I don't remember chicago ever calling delta a town read.

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Can you walk me through the logic that a scum Clap/UP/Snix flip clears you because it makes no sense to me

technically strictly speaking it doesn't, but I should extend the logic to myself since I am placing it on bazuf. that's all. plus I like being clear. Like my reason for voting clap was wholly and entirely different than bazuf's, but it is compelling that I did vote clap in my opinion and that it should be taken into consideration. All of this is a bit moot though since I said in my initial post of this line of logic that it could all be wifom on my part. to go the long way about this logic. Like let's go back to d1 where i placed vestrea at -1 where a argument blew up about the nature of placing people at -1. Then let's move forward and say now we're toward the end of day 1 and someplayer places someone different at-1. are the two scenarios wholly different? because at the end of the thought all that has happened is us players posting and our imagined reasons for voting who we think is scum. The delusion that someone day 1 is scum/town for any specific action that they did is wholly in my opinion flawed. vote count analysis is probably the best way to find scum as it shows motivation. We should probably stick with it and vote in the wagon that flipped green. Claptastik if scum had a vested interest in a vestrea/mikhail flip. so I don't buy usespython argument that we can't do vca especially when it's their slot we are trying to analyze especially since I think their slot voted vestrea during rvs and didn't move their vote.

Claptastik
(4): Vestrea, HighFlyingDwarf, JazonWazza, Bazuf

then mik posted
jason voted mikhail
then I voted claptastik back to -1

[Political Clout]

I should also probably examine delta because fr what they said eod made me think I shouldn't vote mikhail so them voting mikhail in that situation should be hard looked at.

Walk me through this too please

how do you interpret the eod 1? if there was no deadline would you still vote mikhail tal? because you mentioned somewhere that one of the reasons you voted for mikhail was that there was 17 hours left or something but let's extend the day and let's say it was unlimited would you still make the same choice because if you would your point about time is mostly irrelevant.

[Political Clout]

I should also probably examine delta because fr what they said eod made me think I shouldn't vote mikhail so them voting mikhail in that situation should be hard looked at.

Walk me through this too please

how do you interpret the eod 1? if there was no deadline would you still vote mikhail tal? because you mentioned somewhere that one of the reasons you voted for mikhail was that there was 17 hours left or something but let's extend the day and let's say it was unlimited would you still make the same choice because if you would your point about time is mostly irrelevant.

This reads to me like an attempt to imitate scumhunting. The question is a hypothetical with no actual relevance to the game, but at face value seems to be very insightful and direct. 'Examining me' leaves PC options to push me over Clap/UP/Snix and the fact that they're pointing to them voting for clap as a 'clear' when to be honest it looked generously opportunistic and against the grain.

I'm starting to feel like PC might be a good lim, but the issue with that is that even if it lands, tomorrow we still have this spat between UP and I looming over us that I really hope their replacement comes in and remedies. The associatives between the slot and PC don't look great and the 'snark' that PC refers to with UP may well have been UP distancing themselves from PC whilst picking a fight with me.

it's weird that you asked me a question and I asked for more information from you and you turned that into WeLL iT imiTAtEs ScuM HuNTiNg bUT isNT!!!! I'm just trying to answer your question...

If I'm trying to lim you you'll know okay I'm not shy about it I haven't made up my mind between you and up. If you're scum relax for now once I start to death tunnel you you'll definitely know I'll point to everything I think is damning and call it scum sided I'll lie, I'll taunt, cajole, laugh, point, do everything to get you limmed and I'm brutally honest with what I'll do and with what I'm thinking so nobody can accuse me of anything. It's funny because in the same post you agree that you and UP need to be resolved. Like I don't know if you're aware but on page 30 you said you would prefer a kkfc lim and now that I've started probing you you've said now I want a pc lim, and when jason was asking you question and voting you; you voted him very Pavlovian of you.

On balance I am completely fine with a up lim as it helps clear on condemn bazuf in my view. delta, up, chicago, I'm completely okay with them being limmed.

I just like being right the first time and will be sad boi if I'm wrong. HFD for sure dies tonight. that means we should vote in between who we don't want to see tomorrow. We also know that mikhail flipped green that means no matter what you think about claptastik if scum or if town could have always been playing toward their win and we should vote in the wagon it was only yesterday that delta was casting shade at hfd for voting mikhail but ultimately ended up hammering mikhail.

The question I asked is extremely relevant, insightful, and direct why? because I'm awesome. would you still vote mikhail if the time we had was endless. You can't retreat to your well it was only 17 hours left I had to make a choice. Let your argument for voting mikhail stand on it's own and not introduce random arguments that aren't copacetic to it.

like let's say delta is town and let's say town delta voted a player for the manner in which he posts and then delta says if I had infinite time I would still hammer that player. what am I another player supposed to think about that?

btw what happened to your chicago read who you were voting for a majority of last day? That dissapeared into thin air delta.

like I can also just be wrong about this whole thing and we are all talking in circles and scum reading eachother for being active and being the ones playing when the scum are just sitting back and letting us kill each other.

[Political Clout]

I mean to start, yeah. I'd hammer them again.

Second, if you want to be quirky about it, I'd read it as an opportunistic bus in the event of a Scum!Clap flip D1. You voted them back to E-1, with no reasoning and in your next post called out several people that weren't Clap - and then on top of that in your #290 you said you were okay with a Mikhail lim, a HFD lim and a Chicago lim. Noticably absent was the person you put at E-1 less than an hour prior.

So if clap is scum then I'm scum? are you calling bazuf town? if so why not vote UP now and solve the game? I'll sheep you.

[Political Clout]

2 are confirmed town. I answered their question in the first sentence that it doesn't. And I never complained about up not letting me use vca since I'm currently using it. and only one person had a problem with me putting someone at -1 are you okay?

[Political Clout]

2 are confirmed town. I answered their question in the first sentence that it doesn't. And I never complained about up not letting me use vca since I'm currently using it. and only one person had a problem with me putting someone at -1 are you okay?

1 is confirmed, the other is claiming miller with no counter claim. Not confirmed. If they die tonight then we'll know.

So you're answer was that you intentionally misinterpreted the logic to try and clear yourself and bazuf. Thats a cop out. "JK I was only pretending to be dumb"?

I have the quote right here, only a few posts old:

so I don't buy usespython argument that we can't do vca especially when it's their slot we are trying to analyze especially since I think their slot voted vestrea during rvs and didn't move their vote.

Here are literally 3:

VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter. Outdated tech.

Every game, this happens. Every game.

VOTE: Vestrea -1

Um, PC, buddy, it's a

little

early for this, don't you think?

UNVOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

Would share Typewriter's sentiment that moving someone to -1 is unnecessary at such an early stage.

Are you worried about a lolhammer?

Day 1 we're up against the odds voting out scum anyways, but would prefer to get an actual roleclaim from Vestrea if this is a serious wagon. More likely it's just being done to get reactions.

No, it's not the metagame to do that haphazardly, unless you want to give scum the advantage. You should only do it to people who you find scummy.

Oh, to clarify, this isn't 'I think this behavior is slightly scummy' scummy, this is 'I think there's an 80% or better chance that this player is scum'.

where's your vote?

He's saying you shouldn't E-1 someone this early unless you're 80% confident. I would say it's lower conditioning on being town (scum would be 1/3 chance this early in Day 1) but I agree with the sentiment. I don't think it has to do anything with CT's vote (he's not saying anyone is scum as of 33)

I'm fine thank you, how are you?

are you really going to argue about whether someone is clear or not when they are not cc'd? You are being hyperlogical about it and emotional about my slot and my reads. it's weird.

python was talking to chicago about vca and they made an argument that I disagreed with. In fact I didn't bring up vca until I did long after they were gone. so what exactly is the point you're trying to make?


you got me 3 people not 1 I give up I'm scum you found me. More importantly do you have a problem with a player putting someone at -1 at rvs? If you don't what's the argument. What exactly are you trying to say here? Because it looks like you're just arguing to argue. Which is fine I don't mind. Since I'm trying to sort between you and delta.

[Political Clout]

-Snip-

are you really going to argue about whether someone is clear or not when they are not cc'd? You are being hyperlogical about it and emotional about my slot and my reads. it's weird.

python was talking to chicago about vca and they made an argument that I disagreed with. In fact I didn't bring up vca until I did long after they were gone. so what exactly is the point you're trying to make?


you got me 3 people not 1 I give up I'm scum you found me. More importantly do you have a problem with a player putting someone at -1 at rvs? If you don't what's the argument. What exactly are you trying to say here? Because it looks like you're just arguing to argue. Which is fine I don't mind. Since I'm trying to sort between you and delta.

What's weird is you misrepresenting logic in a weak attempt to clear yourself and someone else.

Exactly, you brought it up days later, apropos of nothing, in a rambling post. It rustled your jimmies and you can't let it go. That's my point.

Ladies and Gentleman, we got 'em! Personally I think it could be detrimental, especially in newbie games, to get someone that close to a hammer without any info on them. Day 1 page 1 is too early. Considering you seem to be ignoring any salient points to try and pick at inconsequential I guess we both are. Like I said in my first post. I'm putting out vibes.

Now please address the fact that you're bending the truth to try and make yourself and bazuf look good.

How is it weird? Especially if I'm town. saying your logic doesn't account for 100% of everything in a game of social deduction is fine. simply don't use it. but then saying YOU'RE UNHINGED LOGIC DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. is another thing entirely you have some feelings about me for some reason that are completely unprompted further evidenced by the this annoyed me so much in your post. It's funny that by the same coin if you two are scum then it only benefits scum to say snix is scum delta can't be scum. You are essentially using worse logic than me saying a true villain to orchestrate what happened between them. you use hyperlogic to say hfd isn't confirmed town you use the fact that you're annoyed to "send out vibes", you use the fact that you and delta are on the chopping board and to say a fictitious character who is a villain would be the only one to dream up their argument so one of them must be town are you saying it's you? because you've essentially thrown shade at me bazuf and delta.

It's weird how people in this game are always telling me how I feel...like why? you can certainly think that like do you queen. but I'm not mad about anything. If your only point is that I'm mad then like okay? Not sure what to do with that at all. Am I scum for it? Am I scum for having my jimmies rustled like if you're trying to say something why not just say it?

so this whole thing was about me and bazuf I'm confused at why you didn't just say so? what about my logic is erroneous that it bends the truth? From my point of view I'm only saying someone is clear if and only if you flip scum. Delta asked me the same thing and I was upfront and honest that stritcly speaking it doesn't clear me and said the same to you and to the reasons for voting claptastik at the time are completely different.

Are you saying me and bazuf are scum now? Because if you are I'd rather you say it with your chest.

[Political Clout]

-Snip-

are you really going to argue about whether someone is clear or not when they are not cc'd? You are being hyperlogical about it and emotional about my slot and my reads. it's weird.

python was talking to chicago about vca and they made an argument that I disagreed with. In fact I didn't bring up vca until I did long after they were gone. so what exactly is the point you're trying to make?


you got me 3 people not 1 I give up I'm scum you found me. More importantly do you have a problem with a player putting someone at -1 at rvs? If you don't what's the argument. What exactly are you trying to say here? Because it looks like you're just arguing to argue. Which is fine I don't mind. Since I'm trying to sort between you and delta.

What's weird is you misrepresenting logic in a weak attempt to clear yourself and someone else.

Exactly, you brought it up days later, apropos of nothing, in a rambling post. It rustled your jimmies and you can't let it go. That's my point.

Ladies and Gentleman, we got 'em! Personally I think it could be detrimental, especially in newbie games, to get someone that close to a hammer without any info on them. Day 1 page 1 is too early. Considering you seem to be ignoring any salient points to try and pick at inconsequential I guess we both are. Like I said in my first post. I'm putting out vibes.

Now please address the fact that you're bending the truth to try and make yourself and bazuf look good.

How is it weird? Especially if I'm town. saying your logic doesn't account for 100% of everything in a game of social deduction is fine. simply don't use it. but then saying YOU'RE UNHINGED LOGIC DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. is another thing entirely you have some feelings about me for some reason that are completely unprompted further evidenced by the this annoyed me so much in your post. It's funny that by the same coin if you two are scum then it only benefits scum to say snix is scum delta can't be scum. You are essentially using worse logic than me saying a true villain to orchestrate what happened between them. you use hyperlogic to say hfd isn't confirmed town you use the fact that you're annoyed to "send out vibes", you use the fact that you and delta are on the chopping board and to say a fictitious character who is a villain would be the only one to dream up their argument so one of them must be town are you saying it's you? because you've essentially thrown shade at me bazuf and delta.

It's weird how people in this game are always telling me how I feel...like why? you can certainly think that like do you queen. but I'm not mad about anything. If your only point is that I'm mad then like okay? Not sure what to do with that at all. Am I scum for it? Am I scum for having my jimmies rustled like if you're trying to say something why not just say it?

so this whole thing was about me and bazuf I'm confused at why you didn't just say so? what about my logic is erroneous that it bends the truth? From my point of view I'm only saying someone is clear if and only if you flip scum. Delta asked me the same thing and I was upfront and honest that stritcly speaking it doesn't clear me and said the same to you and to the reasons for voting claptastik at the time are completely different.

Are you saying me and bazuf are scum now? Because if you are I'd rather you say it with your chest.

I'm saying you're bad for town. I'm saying you're posts are akin to mikhail's without the artistry. All fluff, thumping your chest, making your "snipes". You've already expressed how you have no problem lying to get what you want regardless of consequences so why should I trust anything you've said? Why shouldn't I exam every word you shotgun blast into this thread?

Bazuf is just caught in the crossfire. You put them there. You dragged them down to the firing line and held them in place while shouting fire. You are going to lose town this game.

You shouldn't since you don't know my alignment. This is a social game. You're logic has been all over the place just saying what you want and using whatever logic you can to justify it. first my logic is unhinged and now that's changed to you're bad for town and you're dragging down town. Should I be limmed for it. You're saying a lot of stuff but not assigning anything to it am I town for it or am I scum? should I be limmed for it or shouldn't I? because now you're echoing delta's reason for limming mikhail. But essentially in this post you've clearly called me and bazuf town now a total 180 from previously throwing shade at us.

[Political Clout]

-Snip-

You shouldn't since you don't know my alignment. This is a social game. You're logic has been all over the place just saying what you want and using whatever logic you can to justify it. first my logic is unhinged and now that's changed to you're bad for town and you're dragging down town. Should I be limmed for it. You're saying a lot of stuff but not assigning anything to it am I town for it or am I scum? should I be limmed for it or shouldn't I? because now you're echoing delta's reason for limming mikhail. But essentially in this post you've clearly called me and bazuf town now a total 180 from previously throwing shade at us.

Unhinged people are bad for town. You are unhinged therefore you are bad for town. Simple train of thought anyone operating in good faith could get. Did I say you should be limmed? Do you want to be limmed? delta's reason for limming mikhail and my reason for calling you bad for town are different. Mikhail's prose was a slog to read but they probably would have survived D1 if not for the self-immolation. You'll probably survive till it truly matters who you vote for and then you'll tunnel on the most recent townie to slight you and scum will win. Honestly all I want out of you is some self-reflection on your play style. I want you to realize what you're doing is hurting yourself and others and take steps to correct it. Maybe don't say in a post you're willing to lie to get that sweet, sweet lim.

this whole argument you belittling me and calling not me but my logic unhinged and then using hyperlogic to say hfd isn't confirmed town is just totally weird. And now you're switching that and now calling me unhinged. I seperated the two the logic that I am using and myself the person as one should but if from the outset you were just calling me the person unhinged then why this whole song and dance to tell me that I should reflect that I'm bad that I'm mad? These very emotive arguments about my poor play all the while not willing to say hfd is clear using hyperlogic to do so and then making up a fictional character of a villain to be the one to dream up the drama between delta and up. So far I haven't lied about anything. You're talking about a future action that might or might not happen. Also the argument that I'm not operating in good faith is rather obtuse I think. Because while we were having a discussion I am trying to get to your thoughts about whether I am town or scum because of said actions trying to get at the root of what you think but you don't say anything you ignore it and change your argument. There is only one person who is being bad faith right now and it's definitely you. Like honestly how could I know that you were calling me the person unhinged after saying that my logic was unhinged in calling bazuf town because that changed everything PC is an unhinged person for calling bazuf town changed fundamentally what you are trying to say in that post.

let's say I agree I'm bad and am let's further say I'm willing to reflect you haven't said outright if I'm town or scum. after this back and forth you must surely have some inkling of my alignment but you refuse to say for some reason.

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

with their opening I'll probably end up voting them over you. Too much dissonance in their posts. too much deflecting. too much trying to bait me into an argument. too much ate while claiming to be hyperlogical.

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chicago who would you vote delta or claptastik/python/snix?

All things being equal? Deltabreedy; for the sole reason of him voting someone he claimed to know was almost certainly town.

This is kind of lazy tbh

I agree

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

Delta do you think PC is town?

don't answer him delta make him answer my question first. we've had a back and forth now it's time to put up or shut up.

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

Delta do you think PC is town?

am i town or scum snix.

[Political Clout]

still waiting for that snix catch up post btw :^).

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

Delta do you think PC is town?

don't answer him delta make him answer my question first. we've had a back and forth now it's time to put up or shut up.

If you can't parse my opinion based on the words I've already said I'll spell it out for you. T O W N. and bad for it.

now that the kings request has been granted delta can answer my very simple question.

do you think it's not important to say it in thread what you are

definitively

thinking as town? Because we can ask people the fellow peeps here whether it was clear or not. Or do you disagree? Or are you just that upset at calling me town?

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

with their opening I'll probably end up voting them over you. Too much dissonance in their posts. too much deflecting. too much trying to bait me into an argument. too much ate while claiming to be hyperlogical.

This doesn't work with what you're saying.

You're suggesting that they have no idea what your alignment is, but if they were scum they would.

snix thinks i'm town but went about calling me town in a very roundabout way.

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

Delta do you think PC is town?

don't answer him delta make him answer my question first. we've had a back and forth now it's time to put up or shut up.

If you can't parse my opinion based on the words I've already said I'll spell it out for you. T O W N. and bad for it.

now that the kings request has been granted delta can answer my very simple question.

We've already had snark in your slot and it killed my appetite for the game, can we maybe chill

Sorry, I tend to answer in kind. He called me queen earlier in the thread so I figured it fitting. I'll try to keep my conduct game related but I'm going to defend myself.

now you have a problem with how gay people talk? okay.

[Political Clout]

??? What have I come back to

snix thinks I'm town delta thinks I lean scum that's all you should take away.

[Political Clout]

PC do you think Snix is town?

Delta do you think PC is town?

don't answer him delta make him answer my question first. we've had a back and forth now it's time to put up or shut up.

If you can't parse my opinion based on the words I've already said I'll spell it out for you. T O W N. and bad for it.

now that the kings request has been granted delta can answer my very simple question.

We've already had snark in your slot and it killed my appetite for the game, can we maybe chill

Sorry, I tend to answer in kind. He called me queen earlier in the thread so I figured it fitting. I'll try to keep my conduct game related but I'm going to defend myself.

now you have a problem with how gay people talk? okay.

Now that's downright scummy.

huh? for being gay? okay buddy.

[Political Clout]

Can we not continue down this thread? I have no clue why this conversation is going this way.

sould read snix are they town or scum so far?

[Political Clout]

Don't think I'm going to make any comment until they make their catchup post with reads on everyone.

surely it's compelling that they stopped their catchup post specifically for me entered into a deliberate argument with me and then at the end called me town after nearly calling me scum for several posts. Or do you disagree? that it's not compelling in any sort of fashion and is ultimately not indicative of alignment and that they really just wanted to tell me how I am unhinged?

[Political Clout]

VOTE: snix for blatantly lying they haven't softened on me in fact they hard town read me last page don't try and walk back your read now.

[Political Clout]

Don't think I'm going to make any comment until they make their catchup post with reads on everyone.

surely it's compelling that they stopped their catchup post specifically for me entered into a deliberate argument with me and then at the end called me town after nearly calling me scum for several posts. Or do you disagree? that it's not compelling in any sort of fashion and is ultimately not indicative of alignment and that they really just wanted to tell me how I am unhinged?

Haha honestly it reminded me of myself in Day 1. I think it's definitely a mixed bag. What I think is weird is that Snix chose a spot pretty late in the game (compared to the start I know we're only in Day 2) to quote and I think if Snix had been reading from the start they would have chosen an earlier place to be upset with you (PC). The glaring place to pick an issue with is the entire interaction between you, CT, and me from the start of Day 1. I think it's understandable to start reading from where you replaced in and then go back, which is why I wanted to hold off my reads until Snix talked more about how they viewed your posts. What I like from Snix's spot is that their argument with you reminds me a lot of myself during Day 1 where it's like "look I sort of sort this guy as town but there's just parts of his posts that bother me because I don't get what he's thinking right now".

Hope this makes sense it's quite late for me.

I completely understand. But I feel in large part that that is exactly the game that we play in mafia. one of semantics and misunderstandings upon misunderstandings. I agree that it is weird especially since now snix is claiming to have read the whole game or at least day 1 and chose not to say anything.

like let's examine what's happening here with snix. snix claims what he is doing if taken all the way down is moralizing. saying an action done is either right or wrong. PC did this it is wrong of him to have done that. That would require PC to ignore everything he said prior to outright calling PC town. And a million scenarios pop up in my head. Like well why didn't snix do this? or why didn't snix do that? or why in snix catch up post didn't he call pc town and ask him that if pc was town to try and do better?

Is PC now misunderstanding snix's moralizing as indicative of scum behavior? Or is PC morally justified in wondering why snix posted when he did, why snix decided to get into a bickering argument when he did, try to find out what snix actually thought about PC and whether these behaviors that snix pointed out to pc were scum motivated or town motivated. The argument essentially ends with snix saying pc is town BUT pc is unhinged, pc is mad, pc is bad.

PC is left with one essential question are the actions of snix alignment indicative why or why not. In this particular situation it should be known both parties think PC is town. There are several things we can assume further town and scum are always playing to win in a game that requires you to socialize and justify your reads. Can I PC socially accept what snix is saying about me why or why not? Can I PC logically accept what snix is saying about me why or why not? and can I PC imagine a universe that what is being said about me has ulterior motives essentially do I see the scum motivation behind what snix is doing.

most people forget that they are playing both a social game as seen in this game by the lim of mikhail where he acted outside the social mores of the site and was limmed, and a pseudo deduction game mostly because we are essentially doing is a glorified guess.

so I do as a person socially accept what snix is saying. no shot at all I think my interactions have been fine this game and when they weren't I apologized and when the apology wasn't accepted I asked for clarification and apologized with the new parameters. PC has further incentive to believe this as snix has claimed to be doing a catch up post but hasn't posted it, IF the actions that snix detests of PC aren't in the catch up post PC has further incentive to not believe snix claims. snix should justify why he think pc is BAD during day 1 because all snix has done is SAY pc is bad day 1.

do I logically accept what snix is saying not at all especially after he back pedaled from calling me scum, because from the looks of snix posts that's what he seems to have wanted to do. I asked for clarification several times and only towards the end of the page does snix call me town.

finally do I see the scum sided motivation? yes I think snix just wants to appease me now so that they don't get limmed as scum. Snix thought they could get into an argument with PC (who by snix own admission themselves think is a bad person for how they talk to people and how they act day 1) and create more chaos but when asked point blank whether the actions that snix was pointing out day 2 were scum motivated or town snix backed off and tried to appeas me.

[Political Clout]

-snip-

Snix does come across as town in their posts (notice, I am not townreading them obviously, I'm just saying in a vacuum I think their posts sound town), but I think this is just because most of their posts are just interacting with PC. One question I have is why Snix doesn't townread CT? I think if they townread me for tone/content starting from Day 1then CT is a pretty easy townread as well.

I'm scumreading CT because they haven't done anything all game. You've been playing the game, making pushes, making votes, giving opinions. Your play feels like a new townie desperate to not get mislimmed. I've been in that position, I've played like you are.


I would be interested to hear peoples reasoning for why my slot is scum. Mostly from the thread I've gathered that clap was lurking and then stormed off under pressure. This is a little suspect but if clap was really into the game to begin with and then felt they were going to get limmed for playing slowly why not leave. They made a scene out of it for sure. uP didn't seem to have read all the thread and came out swinging for Delta with a scumread with poor logic and then just imploded. Not reading the thread as town is bad for town but not reading the thread as scum is asking to get caught. It feels like my slot has been piloted by the uninterested and the overtaxed.

I don't think it's fair to say that CT hasn't done anything. They haven't posted often but I think their posts are productive and generally +town. I understand this is a matter of personal opinion though.

As for why people think your slot is scum, honestly, I have you ranked in the same tier as Delta and Bazuf but I don't have a hard scumread this game. I would say I think your spot is "moderately" (this is the most appropriate word I can use here to describe the strength of my read) scum. If I had to give a number, I would around 60% chance of scum. I think my reasoning for that is mostly just UP's buddying of me at the start of Day 2 and then my opinion that their backing off of Delta and pivot to a more definitions-based argument was based on them starting to lose the 1v1.

Also, UP definitely read the whole game.

I'd be interested in your case for ct town. who has he pushed that you think deserves pushing, what has he said that you think is town motivated,

[Political Clout]

everyone is nice and separated into two wagons

this is the way.

[Political Clout]

if bazuf hammers scum here he is clear in my eyes.

[Political Clout]

Three questions off of that if I may:

- Can you walk me through how you got to that?

- What makes Snix so binary over me?

- What about when Snix flips scum? Are you still unsure?

Would you mind answering my post 812? It might clear up some doubts if KKFCs mind too.

if bazuf hammers scum here he is clear in my eyes.

You keep trying to clear bazuf with this WIFOM logic and it worries me.

are you saying there's 3 scum? the person bazuf hammers, bazuf himself, and me?

[Political Clout]

Three questions off of that if I may:

- Can you walk me through how you got to that?

- What makes Snix so binary over me?

- What about when Snix flips scum? Are you still unsure?

Would you mind answering my post 812? It might clear up some doubts if KKFCs mind too.

if bazuf hammers scum here he is clear in my eyes.

You keep trying to clear bazuf with this WIFOM logic and it worries me.

are you saying there's 3 scum? the person bazuf hammers, bazuf himself, and me?

No I'm saying I'm worried my prediction for you is going to come true.

I'm still waiting on that catch up post snix.

[Political Clout]

Three questions off of that if I may:

- Can you walk me through how you got to that?

- What makes Snix so binary over me?

- What about when Snix flips scum? Are you still unsure?

Would you mind answering my post 812? It might clear up some doubts if KKFCs mind too.

if bazuf hammers scum here he is clear in my eyes.

You keep trying to clear bazuf with this WIFOM logic and it worries me.

are you saying there's 3 scum? the person bazuf hammers, bazuf himself, and me?

No I'm saying I'm worried my prediction for you is going to come true.

let's see the case for scum bazuf then.

[Political Clout]

Also, your reasoning for Snix applies to me as well...
If I'm scum, why wouldn't I just hammer Snix?

Honestly good question.

you could only consider this valid until delta unvoted snix.

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it's funny if I believe bazuf to me that would leave chicago, bazuf as scum, and I have a town lean on kkfc.

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delta should vote snix

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skygazer which movies HAVE you seen

heya all, will read & catch up soon

Welcome, good luck, looking forward to your analysis.

thanks, i'm looking forward to it too

any suggestions on where i should focus my attention?

On snix's catchup post it is very thorough and informative.

[Political Clout]

cool, thanks, i'll drill down on that catchup. what about it did you like the most?


i'm like 7 pages in and i really want bazuf. i am starting to like chicagotypewriter too, they just feel kind of unapologetic and i do get the sense their reads are starting to develop?

i either townread or scumread KKFC and i don't know which one yet. i was surprised they unvoted vestra during rvs to avoid the e-1, rather than voting for one of the other two wagons. i thought it was noteworthy that delta was the only player they didn't really provide any alignment-read content on in 105, but i also note they had a pretty lengthy convo sometime in the posts ~500 so i'm pretty excited to read that.

clap is asking questions and doesn't seem to be following through which is like, a superficial red flag. he's also not very active yet. i can see he starts talking a lot more later so that's another thing i'm super keen to revisit.

i have nothing on political clout yet.

delta is like, interesting, he's maybe the most vocal player ITT so far and i can see him talking about how he's found townhunting ineffective & would be keen to try rooting out scum from the bottom up, but i don't feel like the earlygame has any evidence of the method so in a more detached meta sense i can see why that was a popular wagon.

I think it is just so insightful like how he elucidates what logic is good and what logic is bad and all of snix's experience in mafia really get him to post about what is on his mind and dig really deep about what we should actually be thinking about and what he is thinking about and why he is thinking about that; it makes for a really good read it's almost I think heartbreaking when you finish reading snix's post because it's just over so soon.

[Political Clout]

So we can agree that it's concerning.

Do you think UP is pushing on me in bad faith?

-Bad Meta reads
-Misrepresenting my arguments
-Misrepresenting my meta play
-Doubling-down on a poor read

this is definitely happening. i find meta very boring and UP are posting a lot but there's a lot of like, words and things which don't feel like they're being used to represent factors which are internal to this game. i've been bored for like 3 pages and delta is becoming my voice of reason. for what it's worth, i don't think UP/KKFC is a particularly convincing team after these conversations.

articulating ideas is hard i'm washed up


pedit: wow it sounds delightful! what made you maintain your vote after you finished reading?

hubris.

[Political Clout]

hubris is well known for catching scum! i'm erring on the side of liking your vote, so i'll report back a bit later.

:roll:

hello nice to meet you too. how're you doing?

just trying my best mr. duck, just trying to be honest.

[Political Clout]

Uh... they're referencing something that doesn't exist.

it exists in our hearts and that's all we can ask of each other.

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that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

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Uh... they're referencing something that doesn't exist.

noticing my attention doesn't exist is startlingly insightful, but i expect not what you meant by this.

are you saying there's no case against delta? is this a policy situation because he's been argumentative?

there is in fact no case against delta

snix is voting delta for survival
chicago is voting delta for delta voting mikhail
and bazuf is voting delta because idk what was his reasoning delta talked to them or something?

[Political Clout]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

vote delta not vote delta, vote snix not vote snix. You fence sitting is actually terrible if you're town since that's what scum are going to use to push you. it's better to commit to a play even if you're wrong on who is scum. you make the game easier for yourself if you vote town and you almost win the game if you vote scum. don't worry about getting it wrong just go with your gut. if your gut is wrong just say hey in this situation it was really hard for me to parse through the game with x y and z happening, but next time I'm in a similar situation I'll have better game play and I should consider this or that instead.

[Political Clout]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

why don't you ask snix why they haven't made a catchup post?

[Political Clout]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

why don't you ask snix why they haven't made a catchup post?

I think it's pretty clear at this point we're not getting one.

lol tell snix that's going to be your reason to vote him and then see how quickly snix produces one.

[Political Clout]

well said. taking a shot, being wrong and talking it out post-game is half the fun if mafia. the other half is winning so i'd be cool w that too.

for what it's worth kkfc, i'm excited to talk to you more because i also haven't really solved this game and my head is a pretty tangled knot rn.

I'll walk you through my logic as Day 2 progresses.

UP defends me with accurate meta reads and pushes on Delta for what I believe to be accurate meta reads -> UP +town, Delta +scum.

I come to think that UP is starting to pocket me, they take a lot of flak and replace out. I think their pivot from Delta at the last moment is extremely AI but it gives me the sense that a Snix vote might just lose us the game in the case that the whole thing was TvT. I think this is where I start to think that a Snix elim is a bad idea.

I move on to Bazuf, but after interacting with them more and rereading a lot of their posts, I lose a lot of conviction in scum!Bazuf.

This with the relative lack of activity from CT and PC has me totally mindfucked.

that's what I'm saying we should all switch to CT.

[Political Clout]

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

why don't you ask snix why they haven't made a catchup post?

I think it's pretty clear at this point we're not getting one.

don't just accept that push them on it. town!snix has a vested interest in being town read scum!snix has a vested interest in being town read as well. the fact that snix is not doing it is worthy of consideration it means that whatever alignment he is he is not strictly playing towards his win condition. Is he lazy town or lazy scum? what would you expect from a lazy town player what would you expect from a lazy scum player? is snix not giving his reads because they'll help town and hinder snix as scum? Their is always a motivation for why someone does what they do. try to examine snix's inaction. threaten to vote them and if snix is playing to win snix will produce one because so far what has been snix's argument for voting delta? like fundamentally it's survival but what did snix actually say? that town is convinced that scum is between snix and delta and they know they're not scum so they voted delta. if snix is townreading delta it is town!snix duty to say so but they don't.

[Political Clout]

if I was scum I would probably leave mr. duck alive and eliminate someone people are townreading like myself or kkfc. it's actually the best play because everyone will look towards mr.duck to lead a wagon and one person being wrong is much better than 5 players coming to a consensus on who is scum if we don't catch scum today I mean.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: chicago typewriter

[Political Clout]

VOTE: chicago typewriter

working on this as we speak but i'd love people to weigh in

how did I know you were going to vote ct? I'm actually the third mason.

[Political Clout]

VOTE: chicago typewriter

working on this as we speak but i'd love people to weigh in

how did I know you were going to vote ct? I'm actually the third mason.

i know. i'm the fourth mason.

Mr. Duck! you're the second mason!

[Political Clout]

oh right sorry counting to four on webbed fingers is really confusing

what we really should do mr. duck is be productive and make a town case on someone.

[Political Clout]

I am more available, are we vibing bazuf, delta or kkfc for deep diving?

on balance it might just always be bazuf for saying outloud that snix/delta might both be town but the pressure of the entire town voting on them must have weighed heavy on bazuf. On preference I think kkfc since their day 1 is fairly interesting overall and not boring to read. delta might need to be looked at for their voting pattern they voted ct yesterday for a large amount of the day and then it dissapeared the vote I mean.

[Political Clout]

I am always receptive to pandering :eyes:

Voting ct is valid. I'd love to see more of what you see in ct, or who you think their partners might be. Or to flip it -- if they did flip green, where would you be looking tomorrow?

final thoughts?

[Political Clout]

let's slip into an alternate universe, and say we only had one elim left after a ct scum flip. it's final 4, and you + kkfc + bazuf + delta are alive. where would you be pushing?
i hope this question doesn't seem obtuse or anything, i'm trying to find a more analytical prompt for our conversation

i thought the 80% scum thing & resultant drama was pretty goofy, but it was a cool way to get the game started. it's not ai.

delta probably. kkfc definitely, and bazuf maybe.

[Political Clout]

oh happy bday pc!!

are there 365 birthdays or 7 billion birthdays?

[Political Clout]

what do you think of the last couple of pages pc?

pedit: infinite birthdays.

just in general or do you have a specific person in mind?

[Political Clout]

you decide, i'm interested in what you're focused on

ct looks like he isn't playing the game and is just responding to things at him. like It's clear that whatever ct is doing it isn't town motivated.

delta is intent on voting snix calls out ct's play but doesn't vote him which is weird on it's own. and is calling bazuf scum as well so idk do I believe someone would have a 3 people in this mafia game. feels like a dumb tell.

[Political Clout]

i'm kind of back to wanting to flip ct i think i like snix now

lol so flip ct!

[Political Clout]

This game is taking its toll

game is just getting good.

[Political Clout]

i do feel comforted continuously reaching a townlean on bazuf, pc and kkfc, then seeing that the fallen masons before me did the same. i feel a little bad for my scumread on ct because i did like the defences on them, i just don't think i can reach the same read.

do any of us disagree that axing [ct, delta, snix] will probably win the game? i don't expect anyone to blindly follow this order, like still do as much work as you're willing in f5 & f3 to get to the bottom of it, but does anyone not feel semi-confidently about this lim pool?

just one thing to consider do we marinate in the wifom of snix/delta or deal with it today.

[Political Clout]

i do feel comforted continuously reaching a townlean on bazuf, pc and kkfc, then seeing that the fallen masons before me did the same. i feel a little bad for my scumread on ct because i did like the defences on them, i just don't think i can reach the same read.

do any of us disagree that axing [ct, delta, snix] will probably win the game? i don't expect anyone to blindly follow this order, like still do as much work as you're willing in f5 & f3 to get to the bottom of it, but does anyone not feel semi-confidently about this lim pool?

just one thing to consider do we marinate in the wifom of snix/delta or deal with it today.

I don't see the downside of waiting longer. Eventually the pool will get narrower and it's not like any new information is coming out.

whichever one is scum has a vested interest in keeping the other alive all the way until one of them is eliminated. the pool gets smaller means that while we are talking about them scum can eliminate whoever is pushing them.

[Political Clout]

as the pool gets smaller, it's mathematically easier to find the scumteam, but scum have a higher % of the votes. so in 3v4, 2v3, 1v2 etc., scum only need one dissenting townie to win the game. they also only need one incorrect member of the elimination pool to win the game. so the more we can sort out now the better.

I agree if we catch scum today or tomorrow to me it doesn't really matter. I think we just win if we lim ct,snix,delta.

[Political Clout]

and then there be 5.

VOTE: chicagotypewriter

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quick lim this. and then we go after delta tomorrow.

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Why would you go after me?

I don't like how bloodthirsty PC is there. That's weird. I agree with a CT lim but that sudden burst of bloodthirstiness is odd.

I think we just win here. I don't see the game moving past this. but to me the town block is pc/kkfc/bazuf. by process of elimination we win if we kick out ct and delta. everything that happened prior is both useless and pointless at this point in the game. including but not limited to whatever marinated associations people have dreamt up since my strategy to win this game is poe. I'm not insane though and can clearly see that ct should be limmed first since he is probably just scum.

[Political Clout]

On the assumption that they flip town, why do you go for me? Do you seriously think that I'm scum?

The chaining of lims feels suspect at best.

on the far away assumption that they might flip town. it's silly not to have a plan I'm willing to change that plan based on actions. but overall that is my present current thinking. going for you because I think bazuf and kkfc are town. if anything today we should lim between me and chicago since we weren't on the snix wagon. Like I said I am like 99.99% sure it's chicago but if it isn't chicago for some odd weird end of the world reason and he is just that absolutely wretched as town then I'm happy limming you next.

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I'm happy limming you next.

Justify this

are we on a lazy susan? the read that is never sufficient?
PC is town
kkfc is town
bazuf is town

conclusion scum is in chicago and delta. chicago will most likely flip red based on his play. for some weird wild reason if he doesn't I am happy limming you next.

[Political Clout]

quick lim this. and then we go after delta tomorrow.

Yeah, this is weird. I wouldn't look to a Deltabreedy Day 4 lim, personally; though I suspect it won't matter much to me because I'm the easy lim for the scum today.

Who would you go for then, today?

I had an interaction with Bazuf yesterday that was odd.

At this point I can conform for a Delta lim, only on one condition:
If he flips town, we vote KKFC on the next day, not Snix...
And that's only because I think KKFC/CT or KKFC/Snix are a possibility, but don't think that Snix/CT are possible.

This sets up a non-Snix lim on Day 3; which is definitely troubling. PC is trying to quick-lim me out of the gate; but to be fair, it's PC so trying to quick-lim me regardless of anything is kind of textbook for him. I'm not sure that's worth scum-reading him for.

I didn't even see this chicago. hmmmmmmmmmmmm. talk to me more about bazuf. who would you lim today? why? I want to see a case I want to see you solving I want to see you engaging. you say you are an easy lim only because you are being passive and letting yourself be limmed. I suggest if you are town not to let it happen.

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you say you are an easy lim only because you are being passive and letting yourself be limmed.

You talk a big game for someone who opened up the day by voting for me and asking for a quick lim, then declaring your next day lim would be for arguably the towniest player in the game right now; justifying neither.

I am being neither passive nor am I not engaging; that is exactly what I'm doing right now. We can take the time to solve this game; but it's not going to work if we decide to jump the gun.

how is delta the towniest? they were quiet for most of the discussion when mr.duck was talking.

you are being extremely passive. you are so passive that not only did you not do anything to push delta yesterday your supposed scum read you are not doing anything to push anyone today. so please by all means I am on pins and needles for your analysis.

[Political Clout]

how is delta the towniest? they were quiet for most of the discussion when mr.duck was talking.

This... Isn't true?

huh? I think it's very true. show me the posts that you responded to mr. duck with trying to solve the game I bet their are less than 5.

[Political Clout]

#995, #999, #1000, #1010, #1089, #1093, #1094, #1109, #1111, #1121, #1124, #1127, #1129, #1131 and #1136.

That's not including the posts I make where I have a faulty snap-judgement on Bazuf, not including the posts I make questioning CT about not wanting me (their top scumread at the time) to self-hammer and not including some posts where I was talking with Worst, but could have been just 1 post.

I don't know where this is coming from, this need to misrepresent my actions at the end of D2 and again, you're putting me as a certified lim tomorrow which if CT isn't scum, loses us the game. Do you see why I'm really taken aback at what you're saying here?

am I going crazy? I need someone else to look at theses posts, but all of these posts don't look like you trying to solve at all while talking to mr duck.

[Political Clout]

Another thing to note is that you weren't on the Snix wagon, you were on the CT wagon. Now that we've got confirmation of that slots scumhood, that kind of looks awful.
You're now advocating for quicklimming following confirmed town's suspicions with very little real input yourself.
You're also advocating for then chaining a lim on someone who by just about every meaningful way except mechanical clearance is essentially conftown.

---

In ISO, PC spends a lot of D2 throwing shade at Snix, who presumably at the time they thought was scum but notably they hopped off the wagon:

Spoiler: PC Scumreading/Throwing shade at Snix

Don't think I'm going to make any comment until they make their catchup post with reads on everyone.

surely it's compelling that they stopped their catchup post specifically for me entered into a deliberate argument with me and then at the end called me town after nearly calling me scum for several posts. Or do you disagree? that it's not compelling in any sort of fashion and is ultimately not indicative of alignment and that they really just wanted to tell me how I am unhinged?

Haha honestly it reminded me of myself in Day 1. I think it's definitely a mixed bag. What I think is weird is that Snix chose a spot pretty late in the game (compared to the start I know we're only in Day 2) to quote and I think if Snix had been reading from the start they would have chosen an earlier place to be upset with you (PC). The glaring place to pick an issue with is the entire interaction between you, CT, and me from the start of Day 1. I think it's understandable to start reading from where you replaced in and then go back, which is why I wanted to hold off my reads until Snix talked more about how they viewed your posts. What I like from Snix's spot is that their argument with you reminds me a lot of myself during Day 1 where it's like "look I sort of sort this guy as town but there's just parts of his posts that bother me because I don't get what he's thinking right now".

Hope this makes sense it's quite late for me.

I completely understand. But I feel in large part that that is exactly the game that we play in mafia. one of semantics and misunderstandings upon misunderstandings. I agree that it is weird especially since now snix is claiming to have read the whole game or at least day 1 and chose not to say anything.

like let's examine what's happening here with snix. snix claims what he is doing if taken all the way down is moralizing. saying an action done is either right or wrong. PC did this it is wrong of him to have done that. That would require PC to ignore everything he said prior to outright calling PC town. And a million scenarios pop up in my head. Like well why didn't snix do this? or why didn't snix do that? or why in snix catch up post didn't he call pc town and ask him that if pc was town to try and do better?

Is PC now misunderstanding snix's moralizing as indicative of scum behavior? Or is PC morally justified in wondering why snix posted when he did, why snix decided to get into a bickering argument when he did, try to find out what snix actually thought about PC and whether these behaviors that snix pointed out to pc were scum motivated or town motivated. The argument essentially ends with snix saying pc is town BUT pc is unhinged, pc is mad, pc is bad.

PC is left with one essential question are the actions of snix alignment indicative why or why not. In this particular situation it should be known both parties think PC is town. There are several things we can assume further town and scum are always playing to win in a game that requires you to socialize and justify your reads. Can I PC socially accept what snix is saying about me why or why not? Can I PC logically accept what snix is saying about me why or why not? and can I PC imagine a universe that what is being said about me has ulterior motives essentially do I see the scum motivation behind what snix is doing.

most people forget that they are playing both a social game as seen in this game by the lim of mikhail where he acted outside the social mores of the site and was limmed, and a pseudo deduction game mostly because we are essentially doing is a glorified guess.

so I do as a person socially accept what snix is saying. no shot at all I think my interactions have been fine this game and when they weren't I apologized and when the apology wasn't accepted I asked for clarification and apologized with the new parameters. PC has further incentive to believe this as snix has claimed to be doing a catch up post but hasn't posted it, IF the actions that snix detests of PC aren't in the catch up post PC has further incentive to not believe snix claims. snix should justify why he think pc is BAD during day 1 because all snix has done is SAY pc is bad day 1.

do I logically accept what snix is saying not at all especially after he back pedaled from calling me scum, because from the looks of snix posts that's what he seems to have wanted to do. I asked for clarification several times and only towards the end of the page does snix call me town.

finally do I see the scum sided motivation? yes I think snix just wants to appease me now so that they don't get limmed as scum. Snix thought they could get into an argument with PC (who by snix own admission themselves think is a bad person for how they talk to people and how they act day 1) and create more chaos but when asked point blank whether the actions that snix was pointing out day 2 were scum motivated or town snix backed off and tried to appeas me.

delta should vote snix

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

why don't you ask snix why they haven't made a catchup post?

that's interesting tho i'd love to hear your case on scum!delta & ideally town!snix's slot, if you wouldn't mind?

kkfc is essentially fence sitting you should talk to someone on the delta wagon.

Haha this comment is actually very on point. In my defense, I've been very open that I've struggled to gain traction in this game and had to play a lot of defense. Not to point fingers, but the relative inactivity in this games at times has also hampered me.

why don't you ask snix why they haven't made a catchup post?

I think it's pretty clear at this point we're not getting one.

lol tell snix that's going to be your reason to vote him and then see how quickly snix produces one.

---

Here, you can see the Snix is now working to move the wagon away from Snix whilst maintaining a 'scumread' on them. There's still the occasional mention of Snix but everything seems geared towards encouraging this CT read and working to establish this chain of lims that they've suggested.

Spoiler: PC still throwing shade at Snix but working to move the wagon to CT

well said. taking a shot, being wrong and talking it out post-game is half the fun if mafia. the other half is winning so i'd be cool w that too.

for what it's worth kkfc, i'm excited to talk to you more because i also haven't really solved this game and my head is a pretty tangled knot rn.

I'll walk you through my logic as Day 2 progresses.

UP defends me with accurate meta reads and pushes on Delta for what I believe to be accurate meta reads -> UP +town, Delta +scum.

I come to think that UP is starting to pocket me, they take a lot of flak and replace out. I think their pivot from Delta at the last moment is extremely AI but it gives me the sense that a Snix vote might just lose us the game in the case that the whole thing was TvT. I think this is where I start to think that a Snix elim is a bad idea.

I move on to Bazuf, but after interacting with them more and rereading a lot of their posts, I lose a lot of conviction in scum!Bazuf.

This with the relative lack of activity from CT and PC has me totally mindfucked.

that's what I'm saying we should all switch to CT.

VOTE: chicago typewriter

you decide, i'm interested in what you're focused on

ct looks like he isn't playing the game and is just responding to things at him. like It's clear that whatever ct is doing it isn't town motivated.

delta is intent on voting snix calls out ct's play but doesn't vote him which is weird on it's own. and is calling bazuf scum as well so idk do I believe someone would have a 3 people in this mafia game. feels like a dumb tell.

i'm kind of back to wanting to flip ct i think i like snix now

lol so flip ct!

as the pool gets smaller, it's mathematically easier to find the scumteam, but scum have a higher % of the votes. so in 3v4, 2v3, 1v2 etc., scum only need one dissenting townie to win the game. they also only need one incorrect member of the elimination pool to win the game. so the more we can sort out now the better.

I agree if we catch scum today or tomorrow to me it doesn't really matter. I think we just win if we lim ct,snix,delta.

---

With this eagerness to chain lims, their absence from the Snix wagon despite being one of it's largest proponents outside of myself and their desire to misrepresent the engagement that I myself had with The Worst, I think this is scum. If we're wrong, we have another shot tomorrow but this start to the day stunk and to be honest, when I look back at PC's ISO, it all kind of fits.

VOTE: Political Clout

jesus delta

VOTE: deltabreedy

if I have to kill you off today to get to chicago tomorrow that's fine with me since it seems that all game yesterday and today you like making it about you for some reason.

chicago will only be to happy to try to lim me off today. but that's okay. we have delta acting as third scum potentially.

[Political Clout]

For real?

I think chicago is for sure scum. I think kkfc is for sure town I think bazuf is for sure town. if you feel some type of way for you being in the bottom two slots of my reads list that's fine. but to me you're just throwing a tantrum I'm more than happy to try to lim you for it since you said outright that you think it was likely chicago earlier. chicago isn't even playing the game at this point. he's all but given up. the only person keeping town guessing is you and maybe bazuf.

[Political Clout]

Yeah I was happy with a CT lim until you went and did this. A little digging in your ISO warranted a vote on someone that's honestly had some seriously sketchy interactions with confirmed scum.

You're now also voting basically confirmed town... Is slow clapping still a thing? You're either scum or seriously having a dumb moment right now.

if you're confirmed town I'm double confirmed town.

[Political Clout]

The fact that you're so bloodthirsty and eager to end the game by whatever means stinks.

I'm eager to win yes I see it in my sights.

[Political Clout]

if you're confirmed town I'm double confirmed town.

PC, please, for the sake of the game, can you explain why?

bruh where is the analysis you promised?

[Political Clout]

it's crazy that people think delta is clear rn. they are not likely to be the nk. everything delta said about me applies to delta and python. they are just imagining up arguments now. If people think or are convinced that an associative read is worth it's weight in gold I have several bridges to sell you.

my argument is and always has been chicago is scum.

delta is playing exactly like mikhail tal rn by throwing a tantrum and making a mountain out of a molehill so I'm more than happy to blow this up with them and get them limmed it really is that simple.

[Political Clout]

since delta is chicago's mouth piece, delta where is chicago's analysis that he promised on three people? I asked snix yesterday where his catchup post was and nothing I ask chicago where his analysis is and nothing. it's crazy how scum reveal themselves for being lazy. and how delta is siding with scum to push me. snix realized if he pushed me he was going to lose and tried to appease me by calling me town, mr. duck called me town, jason/hfd never pushed my slot so they probably thought I was town, KKFC thinks I'm town, chicago thinks I'm town, it's not a conspiracy if scum and town are saying a slot is town guess what I'm town based on wotc. now lim the non believer and lets get chicago tomorrow since delta wants to make this about them.

[Political Clout]

You can't counter what I'm saying, so now it's a 'tantrum'.

you're not saying anything. just trying to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks

[Political Clout]

This is why PC feels so bold in acting this way. The way the cards are falling works perfectly for PC. Lim CT today, kill me and then there is both you and PC who suspect Bazuf. It's optimal for them.
If we assume I take the lim today, then they probably kill CT and have the exact same cross.

I think I'm too good of a Day 4 mislim for a possible scum!PC to pass up on, if you get limmed today; nightkill is probably KKFC. Otherwise, yeah, I think this makes sense.

don't be coy chicago if you're trying to get rid of me just vote me lol. I like how you still don't outright say I'm scum since you've been lukewarm on it forever.

[Political Clout]

@PC, I don't see why you're voting for Delta right now? What makes the game easier for town by voting him?

I wanted chicago delta is being weird right now I'm just playing along to their little tantrum. delta thinks it's likely chicago but I dared to call him the next lim so now they're scrambling so that I won't push them tomorrow. like just imagine the cartwheels going on in delta's mind. if delta thinks they're the most town and they are going to be the nk everything I said from their point of view is moot. why the blow up? makes no sense to me.

[Political Clout]

No blowup - you're the one that's been objectively scummy.

Again, if all you can do is try to delegitimise my points is to call it a tantrum or a blowup, it's pretty clear that you've no real argument.

Change the record, PC.

I have made several points you are just focusing on what you want other people to focus on fact is I have made good points and you don't answer them because you can't.

[Political Clout]

This is what’s really bothering me…
PC is townreading KKFC (not sure why). KKFC townreads PC (not sure why).
And they both seem to want to go to ELO without Delta and CT, and lim me in ELO…
Now, if this is true, one of them is scum and the other is being played. Not sure who’s who…

my mans are you good? are you even reading my posts? do you even know game mechanics? I'm calling you town. we can't lim both ct and delta so I don't know what you are talking about.

are you saying you think delta and ct are town? because that would cause me a great deal of concern.

[Political Clout]

I don't understand if delta thinks they are completely clear and delta thinks they are going to be the nk and if anyone else thinks delta is clear and is going to be the nk why not just let me be wrong? why care that I think the two scummiest people are ct and delta? why would town!delta invest all this time and effort into trying to lim me if I'm just wrong? crazy lmao.

VOTE: chicago typewriter

[Political Clout]

You guys ever have a black screen blinking underscore issue that means your laptop has a os or hard drive issue and you try desperately to fix it but don't have a USB stick to install a windows 10 iso file to reboot the entire PC and don't have enough gas money to go to the library to do it because you don't have a job because you think you're too good to work for minimum wage so now you're just applying to several places (62) that are all rejecting you for being to old rightfully so because they can just pay a teenager to do what you are trying to do since you dropped out of college and are a complete fucking loser? Yeah lol me neither:twisted:

What a great game thanks for modding skygazer :)

[Political Clout]

oof good luck with your job hunt pc good game

I have no idea what you are talking about 🤡

Good game Mr duck.