Newbie 967 - Game over

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:43 am

Hi everyone, call me CDB, I'm your IC for this game which means I'm here to help you along with the conventions of the game and this site, to provide insight on strategy and such things, but as a player I'm here to win as well as teach.

I'm going to kick things off with a

Vote: Espeonage

because I prefer Umbreon.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:26 am

No need to hold back in voting, wizard. We've got plenty of time and we're not actually going to lynch anyone yet, but voting is how the game really gets started.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #57 (isolation #2) » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:28 pm

Whoa, an active start to this game. That's great. I couldn't get much time yesterday so I'm behind but I'll read up this afternoon, but here are the answers to the questions you asked earlier:

Timezone: GMT+1, British Standard Time
Usual Activity Level: I try to get on every day with a post or two, sometimes every now and then I don't have time in one day.
Experience: A few years.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #87 (isolation #3) » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:36 pm

I don't really have a problem with Chaodck's lynch-1 vote, it didn't seem like a scummy way of placing that vote. I think scum would have tried to justify it more than Chaodck did.

I'm going to

unvote, vote: RetroAudio

for making a random vote on page 3. Nothing you do after your first post should be random and there were plenty of posts to dig into with your vote rather than avoid taking a stand on an issue.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #88 (isolation #4) » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:36 pm

RetroAudio wrote:Choadck however, is avoiding a hammer. Clearly.

How exactly? It's not in his control.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #90 (isolation #5) » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:58 pm

Undoubtedly he knew. My point is that psychologically, scum want to make themselves look town, so in that kind of situation they are more likely to try and cook up a reason why wulf might be scummy before they vote, rather than just say they were getting on the wagon, which to me seems more like newbie town.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #92 (isolation #6) » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:04 pm

What's your response to my vote on you?

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #97 (isolation #7) » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:59 pm

RetroAudio wrote:Well it's fine, why?

I think it's important to know whether you think I'm justified. So are you saying that I'm right when I say that scum are more likely to do what you did than town?

RetroAudio wrote:The only reason I voted you is to place my vote in a vault or something.

Why would you want to do that?

RetroAudio wrote:And at the same time get your attention so that you make a violent reaction like: OMG WHY ME, IM TOWN. or something. Because I was disappointed in your post, I didn't get enough attitude

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Espeonage wrote:
FoS: Delibird

Textbook omgus. And what does page number have to do with anything? Most games are barely even in RVS by then. I know we are on the verge of ending rvs but I wouldn't get too caught up about that yet.

A few things here. My point is not a blind "OMG PAGE 3 SOMETHING MUST HAVE HAPPENED", it's that on page 3

in this game

, plenty had happened - Chaodck's lynch-1 vote, the quick wagon that formed on him as a result of that. Plenty of serious posts to analyse and take a stand on. Random voting at that stage is scummy, because it ignores useful discussion and does nothing productive. Town should be trying to be productive.

Also, stop talking about "the RVS" like it's a solid thing. It sets a bad example to newbies to say that in every game you can't count the first 2, 3, maybe 4 pages because "it's the random vote stage". Nothing past your first post should be random, and discounting a serious point because "the RVS isn't really over yet" is terrible. This is me talking as an IC here.

Espeonage wrote:Also. I am probably seeming a bit narrow here with another post on the issue.
Anyway, that really is a bit of a silly question. A vote isn't worth spending time making a response. It is just a signal of intent. It just seems like your trying to get him to dig a hole for himself or something.

I disagree with this. A vote

is

a signal of intent but it's also a comment and an opinion. The way you win mafia is by examining people's stated opinions. I've stated an opinion on why I think RetroAudio might be scum, and he should absolutely have something to say about, because either he's town or he wants everyone to think he is, so he should have a reason why my opinion is not valid. That's absolutely worth exploring.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #98 (isolation #8) » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:01 am

RetroAudio wrote:I have something in my mind, but it's too early to speak out. I might get night-murdered or something.

If you have a theory about who might be a doctor or a cop (or who might not be), DON'T SAY IT.

If it's a theory about who might be scum, then absolutely say it. Opinions help the town.

(At any rate, by saying you've got something in mind you've drawn attention to it anyway.)

Also, and this is me talking as an IC, town should not be too afraid to be nightkilled because if the town wins, all of the town wins, even if they are dead.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #103 (isolation #9) » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:11 am

Espeonage wrote:That depends on your opinion on what constitutes the end of rvs.
I have always seen it as being finished when serious, strong and coherent cases begin being posted. This hasn't happened yet in the game.

That's a lazy opinion. The widely accepted myth of a conrete period of the game in which everything is random and not useful is bad for the town and bad for play in general. If you're waiting for strong, serious and coherent cases before you think "the RVS" is over, you're going to be waiting a long time.

Espeonage wrote:All opinions are valid. Trying to disprove an opinion is fruitless. It is an opinion. Bad choice of word but I know what you were trying to say.

One vote is not a serious enough threat to be getting caught up about. I am iffy about your intentions asking questions that aren't really due. Sure if he gets a couple more votes I would expect him to have something to say about it.

How do you expect to get information and build up your own opinions and cases if you don't press people for their stances on things? I gave a reason why I thought RetroAudio might be scum and I voted him for it. He should want to respond to that because if he's town he would know that I was on the wrong track and should be trying to make me look elsewhere. It's not unreasonable of me to

ask

him for his opinion on it even if he doesn't give it himself, either. I'm trying to decide what his alignment is, and town players should not have a problem with me doing that.

RetroAudio wrote:ChannelDelibird, you think it is scummy to actually vote someone with no votes at all to get his aggressive face on?
Or is it scummy to vote for someone, who voted you, because he RV'd at the third page?

I think that's a decent reason. My issue with the vote was that when you first voted, you gave no reason, then when asked about it, you said "it was random". It seems like you've changed your story there.

No, I don't think it is. My vote on you can't be invalidated just because it's about your vote for me. My vote isn't OMGUS (which is a vote

without reason other than that you voted for me

), it's about what I think is an attempt to avoid taking a stance on the issues that were in the game at the time.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #135 (isolation #10) » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:35 pm

Hey, I'm going to reread (a couple of days away from this game have left me a little out of touch) but I'm pretty sure I need to UNVOTE: RetroAudio (hee hee! vote tags!), who seems to be doing more than most.

I must say, though, RetroAudio, asking someone why they think they're town is a bad way to question someone. The only answer they can give is "because I got a role PM telling me I win with the town", and besides town players will always think their behaviour is town, because, y'know, it is. It's a question that can only get an unsatisfactory answer and such is a leading question that only really helps scum.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #174 (isolation #11) » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:01 pm

Hi all, sorry I'm a couple of days behind. I'm starting a reread of this game now and I should be all caught up by later today or tomorrow.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #175 (isolation #12) » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:27 pm

All caught up!

RetroAudio wrote:@ChannelDelibird - In your idea, who do you think the most scummy player is?

Right now, having reread the thread, my top suspect is ChibiSanNub. He pushed the chaodck case more than everyone else earlier on and in particular the first post of page 4 really looks like he's just attacking him because it's easy. At this stage I have a pretty solid town read on chaodck and Chibi just looks like he's been going after him because repeatedly attacking a player for a mistaken/silly lynch-1 vote is an easy way for scum to try to get town points. He refuses to accept the possibility (probability, I'd say at this stage) that chaodck simply didn't think to check how many votes wulf was on.

Vote: ChibiSanNub

As far as other players go, I'd like to hear more from chaodck and wulf, and I'm going to take a closer look at Mindgamer and Elleran at the next opportunity.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #185 (isolation #13) » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:52 am

Espeonage wrote:Ok. Can you not leave it alone? I have my reasons. I am not satisfied with mindgamer at the moment and until that changes my vote will be there. If I do conclude that mindgamer is certainly scum I will post why. At the moment I am hanging around 80.

As far as I can see this is just SEing on your part. If you suspect him to be scum and therefore you think we should vote for him (don't try to suggest that the two aren't mutually exclusive at this stage) then there is no reason to your reasons back on Day 1 in a newbie game.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #186 (isolation #14) » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:52 am

EBWOP:

Espeonage wrote:Ok. Can you not leave it alone? I have my reasons. I am not satisfied with mindgamer at the moment and until that changes my vote will be there. If I do conclude that mindgamer is certainly scum I will post why. At the moment I am hanging around 80.

As far as I can see this is just bad SEing on your part. If you suspect him to be scum and therefore you think we should vote for him (don't try to suggest that the two aren't mutually exclusive at this stage) then there is no reason to your reasons back on Day 1 in a newbie game.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #231 (isolation #15) » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:19 am

3 days without a post? I'm really sorry, I hadn't realised it had been that long at all. I'm entertaining guests at the moment so don't have time to reread the thread just now, but I'll have a post for you tomorrow evening (BST) at the latest.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #243 (isolation #16) » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:37 pm

Just checking in to remind you of my previous post. I'll be free and able to post later this evening.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #269 (isolation #17) » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:57 am

Hi. I'm really sorry, I should have informed VRK that I am currently sick and not really in a state where I can think about this game. I understand deadline is close so I will try to dose up on drugs and catch up as soon as possible, but right now I'm really not thinking straight enough.