Newbie 1323 - Reck's Popsicle Stand! (Game Over)

[Antagon]

/confirm

[Antagon]

*Insert obligatory sheeping statement here*
VOTE: buildermar

[Antagon]

Kid A, I don't think he's already going on full attack mode with a second vote, but that's just my opinion.

On an unrelated note, you, anorway, and Cubesnail should get avatars so the three of you can be distinguished from each other.

[Antagon]

Crap.
EBWOP: It's not irrational because it was the first vote.

[Antagon]

@Mod: Please prod Cubesnail and buldesmar

Like right now? Instead of taking an active role in finding scum, you want to lay back and wait for someone to start a bandwagon to start for you to jump on. I highly doubt that it's the optimal way to find scum. It seems that you are scum who wants to wait for the town to start killing themselves.
UNVOTE: Buldesmar
VOTE: the Godfather
This vote is for you to explain the logic behind being passive rather than active.

[Antagon]

VOTE: Cheery Dog because owls are more awesome animals.

Unvote: Cheery Dog

because dogs apparently can't fly.

Okay, to take over your job of finding scumtells, or at least anti-town tells.
From my limited reading of games on this forum, RVS usually ends when someone succumbs to pressure and makes an obvious scumtell. Cheery Dog had his vote taken off because of a joke. I don't think that made a good reason to immediately take off someone's vote unless anorway is newbish and wants to look active. He is definitely more suspicious because of that.

[Antagon]

VOTE: Cubesnail
At this point I think he's just not posting so people can't get a read on him; hopefully he comes back here to defend himself

I suppose you're right, I haven't been posting, but I've been active. Anyway, I can't find anyone particularly suspicious. I intend to vote when things more intense though. I think that voting in the first day is very risky because we have no suspicions and there really isn't any full intent from anyone to lynch. It might be a waste of a day, but we might be killing off a townie, which in turn makes the game just as short as it would be wasting a day.
I'll try to be more active. Sorry guys.

From my limited experience, not voting is considered anti-town because voting for someone allows them the chance to slip up. When I first started playing on this site, I thought the exact same thing. But, Day 1 voting isn't as random as you may think. I don't think that bandwagons will form unless someone is clearly scum.
Either way, even if someone does go to L-1, people say they intend to hammer to give time for claims, possible scum suspects, etc.

[Antagon]

Okay then. Who looks the most suspicious to you? Order from most scummy to least scummy and give reasons. I want to see your opinion.

[Antagon]

Since the Godfather replaced poohbear, he would get the same role.
But, why would you think that the first vote was suspicious?

[Antagon]

On another note, where's buldermar?
I have a sudden urge to vote him so we can get this game moving.

[Antagon]

To help move the game along:
Nacho and Cheery Dog, as the people best equipped to find scumtells, who looks the most suspicious right now?

[Antagon]

To help move the game along:
Nacho and Cheery Dog, as the people best equipped to find scumtells, who looks the most suspicious right now?

same answer nacho gave about where my vote is
furthermore you yourself have played some games here have you not? I seem to recall you being replaced in a mini normal I was in, where does your own main suspicion lie? (i assume godfather)

No, I never replaced into your mini Normal and in the first game I was in, I failed miserably.
Right now, I think Godfather looks scummy with anorway and Kid A looking null.

[Antagon]

Ok, I'm up to date.
I have a townread on the Godfather.
I have weak-ish scum reads on Antagon, Cube and anorway. I'm pretty sure that I'll get more reliable reads on Cube and Antagon soon enough.

So far, the Godfather made a post that suggests that he is more active than passive, but why is he town? Please elaborate on your reads.

[Antagon]

Could you explain this to me Nacho?

Would love to after Antagon stops ignoring me.

I was trying to at least start a conversation. In my first game, I failed to provide reads even relatively well and got myself lynched. I was hoping to avoid being targeted for inactivity. Even if anorway wasn't relevant at first, I hoped to provide everyone with my opinions.
In hindsight, it was a bad idea not to provide proof.

[Antagon]

I might have already posted this, but just in case:

VOTE: Cheery Dog because owls are more awesome animals.

Towntell: Decided to place an RVS vote to drive discussion

Unvote: Cheery Dog

because dogs apparently can't fly.

Anti-Town tell: Took off the vote two posts later for no apparent reason.

I've read this thread a few times now, and I have to say this is much harder than IRL. No one is suspicious to me, except for the Godfather. Not because of what the Godfather posted him/herself, but this post made me think though:

hope i don't lose

VOTE: buldermar

I'm probably overreacting to this, but my first thought was that poohbear was Mafia.

And I assume the Godfather got the same role as poohbear did?

(Slightly) Derptown move (that has probably already been referenced): Being the first one to vote does not equal scum.

[Antagon]

Also, before I forget:
While these behaviors are probably justified, it's hard to read someone when they've only made a few posts. Therefore, anorway is null until he makes more posts.

[Antagon]

I agree that the reasoning of Antagon is inconsistent,

but not that it could not come from town.

buldermar, could you elaborate on this point? Do you think that my logic is flawed but that I look town anyway or that I could look town because of my logic?

[Antagon]

unless he had planned it in the mafia quicktopic

dun dun dun

How could Cheery Dog plan in the Quicktopic if;

Hello and welcome to Newbie Game 1323.

Your role is Mafia Goon. Your partner is xRECKONERx.

Active Abilities: At night, either you or your mafia partner may target a player. If your ability is successful, that player will be killed at the end of the night.
Passive Abilities:

At night,

you may talk with your mafia partner in this quicktopic.

Win Condition:You win the game if no members of the town are alive, or if the a mafia majority is unavoidable in the next game day.

Have fun!

Unless you're able to post in the quicktopic pre-game, then I don't seem to get Kid A's post.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kid A
Okay, the fact that scum can use their quicktopic pre-game isn't actually made obvious in the initial post. You would only know said fact if:
A)Scum
B)Extensively researched the mod's previous Newbie games
C)Been on this site long enough to know that already.
Since it's not Option C and probably not Option B, Kid A is confirmed scum and needs to die today.

[Antagon]

Although I agree that Kid A is scum, your premise might be false. You cannot know for certain that Kid A knew and wasn't merely "guessing" as town - a possibility excluded from the conjunction {A, B, C} that you present.

You're right, but I'm thinking about why a townie would need to know that. If he believes that Cheery Dog and anorway voted in a predetermined sequence, making a scumslip of that magnitude to see if they had contact pregame wouldn't be worth it in my opinion.

[Antagon]

EBODP

I'm not even paying attention to what I'm reading there. (My memory just told me that person didn't have an avatar at that stage)

anaoway is thus my partner for voting me and then unvoting me in a weird predetermined movement?

Who are you asking?

See post above it and who was quoted there. (I'm sorry if you got confused if I fail to include the W in the EBWODP, it's a correction to my error in reading.)

What does EBWODP mean? I'm sorry that I'm unfamiliar with the abbreviation.

Edit
By
Way
Of
Double
Post

[Antagon]

I suggest someone state intend to hammer so that we can get a claim with some time left to change our votes if need be.

Unfortunately, these are the last post numbers for the people who would vote Kid A.
the Godfather: 209
Cubesnail: 233
anorway: 243
Since they haven't been on in a while, we're going to have to wait for the eventual intent and inevitable hammer.
So, to Godfather, Cubesnail, and anorway:

Don't immediately hammer in the unlikely case that Kid A flips town and is tasked to claim and express reads on who is scummiest.

[Antagon]

But, he didn't exactly do much in the first place, which is why buldermar wanted him to be lynched already (I think.)

[Antagon]

Considering I've got a town read on Cubesnail, this pretty much confirms that Kid A's partner voted for Kid A during day 1.

don't yell at the man for hammering scum
he's trying to prove a point which is going to be proven wrong with Kid A's scumflip

We lynch you next either way.

This makes me suspicious though. Nacho was really sure that Kid A was scum, and now that he turned out to be scum, I feel Nacho is town. Mcqueen apparently wanted Nacho out, so... At least to me this is very suspicious, so I'm going to:

VOTE: mcqueen

And sad to see Cheery gone.

Ok, I'm up to date.
I have a townread on the Godfather.
I have weak-ish scum reads on Antagon, Cube and anorway. I'm pretty sure that I'll get more reliable reads on Cube and Antagon soon enough.

So far, the Godfather made a post that suggests that he is more active than passive, but why is he town? Please elaborate on your reads.

I think only one of Kid A and the Godfather is scum. Since I'm fairly convinced that Kid A is scum, that makes the Godfather town. I also think that odds of there being exactly 1 scum on the Godfather wagon is much greater than there being 0 or 2.

buldermar made the point that if Kid A is scum, the Godfather is town. Since mcqueen replaced the Godfather, he is also town. Why did you decide to vote mcqueen in the first place? Also, since Kid A's partner was on the wagon, there's no real proof that Nacho is town by thinking that Kid A is scum.

[Antagon]

On another note:

Nacho, NicCage team.

How can two people work together when scum has already been lynched?

[Antagon]

Also, who do you think is scum Antagon?

I think anorway is scum because of the way he wanted to fly under the radar D1. Like Nacho said, anorway made correct scumtells, but failed to act on said tells. Also, he voted for mcqueen, obvtown.

You seem scummy to me, but I can't put my finger on it. I'll wait until Cubesnail posts his wall of reads before making any rash decisions.

[Antagon]

Vote: anorway

VOTE: anorway

ISheepSoWhat

I'll go with that I guess. I don't see a better reason to vote Antagon VOTE: anorway

I'm scummy to you?

VOTE: anorway

Holy crap! Quickhammer!

[Antagon]

Cubesnail, you know that wall of reads you were going to post?
It would help if you posted that.

[Antagon]

Cubesnail, you know that wall of reads you were going to post?
It would help if you posted that.

You need to vote someone.

Okay then.
VOTE: buldermar

[Antagon]

Because I was told to and I wanted to complete the chain.
But, seriously, compared to the first day, buldermar hasn't done anything but sheep. I don't find sheeping scummy, but sheeping without any reasoning seems rather suspicious.

[Antagon]

I think only one of Kid A and the Godfather is scum. Since I'm fairly convinced that Kid A is scum, that makes the Godfather town. I also think that odds of there being exactly 1 scum on the Godfather wagon is much greater than there being 0 or 2.

buldermar: believes the Godfather is town because of POE.
mcqueen replaces the Godfather, thus taking over the same alignment.

[Antagon]

I'm inclined to believe buldermar's claim, so UNVOTE:
buldermar: If mcqueen does flip town, who else do you suspect?

[Antagon]

I'm inclined to believe buldermar's claim, so UNVOTE:
buldermar: If mcqueen does flip town, who else do you suspect?

NicCage

UNVOTE: buldermar
Yeah I don't know what I was exactly thinking. Hash brownies man.
Honestly, I don't think mcqueen is scum because the Godfather seemed like derptown. Cube is definitely town, and if there is no power role counterclaim then buldermar shouldn't be considered scum.
So
VOTE: Antagon by PoE. Without a counterclaim against buldermar, I'd say that if Antagon flips town we lynch mcqueen.
Does this idea sound good?

Could we do it the other way around?

I really hope I'm not reading this correctly. If mcqueen flips town, why would you lynch me if you think NicCage is your top scum suspect besides mcqueen?

[Antagon]

Why NicCage is scum - Part 1L

Nacho, NicCage team.

Lol you got us.

It's either antagon or anorway as far as I can see. VOTE: Antagon

Clearly tunneling me. He tries to convince himself that I'm scum, yet fails to give enough reasoning to allow anyone else to also vote me.

I'll go with that I guess. I don't see a better reason to vote Antagon VOTE: anorway

I'm scummy to you?

Jumping on the bandwagon. His attempts to lynch me have failed, so he puts anorway at L-1 with mentioning it. By doing so, he hopes that mcqueen quickhammers anorway, ensuring that there's a scapegoat for a lynch the next day.

Yeah mcqueen, why did you do that you turd?

VOTE: Antagon I think this is our best bet atm

UNVOTE: buldermar
Yeah I don't know what I was exactly thinking. Hash brownies man.
Honestly, I don't think mcqueen is scum because the Godfather seemed like derptown. Cube is definitely town, and if there is no power role counterclaim then buldermar shouldn't be considered scum.
So
VOTE: Antagon by PoE. Without a counterclaim against buldermar, I'd say that if Antagon flips town we lynch mcqueen.
Does this idea sound good?

No, it doesn't make sense in context of today. Since mcqueen actually flipped town, PoE must say that scum is

the guy who defended him all day.

I was always certain that mcqueen was town and the only reason to vote him was for policy reasons, a.k.a. his tendency to quickhammer.

actually VOTE: mcqueen we don't need a claim

Quickhammering him, which would only hurt the town. mcqueen should at least have had the time to post his top reads for the next day. In the unlikely event that he flipped scum, we would have won anyway, so it didn't matter. But since he flipped town, not having mcqueen's reads ensures that we lost out on semi-valuable information.

[Antagon]

Whatever, I think I'll be killed next night regardless:

I'm a doctor, I protected Nacho N1. I would have protected Nacho N2 as well if it wasn't because I was too lazy to be online to send in my night action (I know, that's unfortunate and I'm sorry). I'll unvote mcqueen until I've ISO'ed Godfather and reevaluated.

UNVOTE:

Since I'm now certainly going to die tonight, I'd appreciate if I can get all of my thoughts out there before the end of this day.

Since buldermar's death proved that he was the actual doctor, it's not getting ahead of ourselves to think that most of the things he said were true.

Antagon is probably town for post 180.

Yep. If NicCage votes for me today, he's the guy who voted for the town confirmed by the doctor.

I'm inclined to believe buldermar's claim, so UNVOTE:
buldermar: If mcqueen does flip town, who else do you suspect?

NicCage

NicCage is buldermar's top scum suspect. Therefore, we should lynch him.

UNVOTE: buldermar
Yeah I don't know what I was exactly thinking. Hash brownies man.
Honestly, I don't think mcqueen is scum because the Godfather seemed like derptown. Cube is definitely town, and if there is no power role counterclaim then buldermar shouldn't be considered scum.
So
VOTE: Antagon by PoE. Without a counterclaim against buldermar, I'd say that if Antagon flips town we lynch mcqueen.
Does this idea sound good?

No.

Do you not understand? If buldermar lives today, Scum kills him tonight. I've only seen Scum not kill a claimed PR

one time

, and that was because they had a better Nightkill, that helped them more in the long-run.

buldermar will die either today, or tonight. If he doesn't die tonight, then he's Scum.

Antagon's flip has nothing to do with this; by PoE, he is

Town

.

Before mcqueen's lynch, this was the last bit of information that he would give us, and he also claims that I'm town by PoE. Therefore, since two confirmed townies think I'm town, it overrules the guy who's been acting suspicious all game.

[Antagon]

EBWOTP:
467 should say Part 1:, not Part 1L
468 is Part 2.

[Antagon]

You haven't done anything memorable, but since I think NicCage is scum, you're automatically town by PoE.

[Antagon]

Fact: buldermar claimed Doctor without a counterclaim.
Fact: buldermar's flip proved that he was the doctor, and not a townie trying to save himself from a lynch.
Fact: There's no reason not to trust buldermar's reads because he's a mod-confirmed PR.
Fact: buldermar said that NicCage was his top scum suspect after mcqueen.
Yes, it may be shoddy reasoning, but that's only one part of my argument.

Fact: NicCage has been on every mislynch, and was L-1 on Kid A's lynch.
Clearly, after bussing him on Day 1 to divert suspicion, he seized the opportunity to hop on every wagon.

Fact: NicCage quickhammered mcqueen without a claim.
I hardly doubt that you would gain towncred by hammering mcqueen, especially since if he did flip scum, we wouldn't care about what he said anyway. If he flipped town, we would have at least some information going into LyLo.
VOTE: NicCage

[Antagon]

I'm inclined to believe buldermar's claim, so UNVOTE:
buldermar: If mcqueen does flip town, who else do you suspect?

NicCage

actually VOTE: mcqueen we don't need a claim

In just 36 posts, I hardly doubt that buldermar significantly changed his opinion of both me and you.
Cubesnail, just hammer NicCage already.

[Antagon]

Sorry for not posting. Unintentional V/LA.

[Antagon]

I quickhammered McQueen because he was taking awhile to claim and I wanted to move the game forward. I realized that his claim wouldn't add anything to the game, though I didn't really think about his read. To be honest though, McQueen wasn't making a whole lot of sense at the end of the day, so I don't know how useful his reads would have been.

Any reads by a townie, no matter how little said townie makes sense, would always help town.
Let's have some hypotheticals:
His reads were from town to scum: A, B, C, D.
If mcqueen was scum, town would have won and we would have disregarded his reads anyway.
But, since mcqueen was town, we would have some inherent pressure on D and force him to provide a list of reads.

I also thought your reasoning was flimsy. You voted mcqueen because he was too slow, but perhaps you wanted the day to end more quickly even though there were still a few days left until the deadline. (You hammered on March 4th, but the deadline was March 18th)

[Antagon]

Cubesnail, think about the motivation behind NicCage's votes on me during Day 2 and Day 3.
If I was so scummy, why wouldn't he give a logical argument before in case mcqueen flipped town?
Why would scum at least attempt to prevent mcqueen from being lynched? Wouldn't scum say, "Oh, look, town's going to mislynch someone and all I have to do is stay on the sidelines?"

[Antagon]

buldermar, who did you protect Night 3?

Question: Who thought it was completely obvious that I was bussing Kid A on the first day?