Newbie 1320 -- Game Over
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Oh, and /confirm not sure if necessary but might as well.
1. I have received a nice reputation bonus from the person who I replaced.
2. My current buddy scum team is Cat and Gadial as buddies. Mostly, this is because they've been walking awkwardly around each other all game. I think Cat's lack of interest in his own bad spell as suspect is because he's hoping that other players will lose interest and move on as other players give out tells. (Which is what happened)
3. My solo scum tell (person I most suspect if I'm wrong on the other team) Is Cub because of a few posts he made, one where he wrote what was equivalent to "well, I better post now or they'll start to suspect me" and also his lurking and for lack of a better word "moderating" the discussion around Cat. I think he was doing this to start up a chain of lynchers.
That is all for now, I think I will put my money where my mouth is hereVote Mr Zephyr
Thoughts?-
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Hi Mr. Ree, Is there anything you would like me to do particularly with my posts? Other than that, I have nothing to say because you're my #4 as my scum. I read another poster saying your play style was to "stay" neutral. But obviously, this makes you suspicious because neutral usually means "I hope they forget about me so I can stay for the whole game." Which I imagine is pretty selfish, your win/loss ratio seems to imply this as well. Er, assuming I understand this.
Actually, I have a question about your play style Mr. Ree. When pushed, do you tend to get more involved?
Also, Hi everybody and thanks for inviting me Nobody.-
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Hmm you have a point about refusing to answer questions. But at the same time, if you're scum then giving you information that you could use to pin a newbie to the wall wouldn't exactly be hard for you to do. I'm not quite sure how I would react if a "wagon?" Got on me because I've never really had to defend myself before.
That said, could you humor me and vote for Zephyr? I really do think he:
1: Knew I was obv. town because he's scum.
2: (using terms I saw on wiki, Thanks Godfather!i) Tried to bus his teammate who was going inactive.
3: Realized his partner wasn't going to get bussed so left off to get an easy town kill.
Now obviously as a newbie I should be wary of trying hard to make the facts go my way rather than me going with the facts. Still, I think this is a fair compromise from you to show you're willing to be a bit more active and I get my way, what say you sir?-
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Fair enough!
Firstly, if you don't mind, I am going to summarize without block quoting the person Gavian/Zephyr in question. This is mostly because since I believe it's ugly. Also, I don't really think, given our ability to have words permanently in text that I'm going to run into many players making an, "opps, I admitted I'm a scum in my dialogue." Instead, i find it more about general activity and actions. Therefore, I don't think a single sentence will seal the deal for me to win an argument.
1. First few posts by Gadian can be summarized as "I'm not doing much, but that could change, should I see an opportunity."
2." Catlord - At first I thought he was town but I'm not sure now. He seems to be over-thinking things a tad, at least about Cub's vote on shaboo. But he could just be a cautious townie who's over-thinking things a bit So at the moment my read on him is null." This is his most detailed first reading. Which is all kinds of "well, should I or shouldn't I?"
3. Notes my predecessor as "likely town" which was not contradicted by Zephyr, who became even more sure of it.
4. Gadian- "Now I will admit that if someone was to have a very convincing case on someone, after a bit of rereading the game, I would probably go with it." He's been like this the whole game so far. He even mentions that he hasn't been as "active as he should be in deciding." Note, he isn't particularly inactive post wise, just inactive in any kind of investigation whatsoever. Now it's far to say that hasn't had much time (he got replaced after all). But just because he doesn't have much time doesn't excuse his lack of voting in any direction or even bothering to at least throw a question out there and then let everyone else pick up the pieces. He does nothing.
5. Zephyr shows up: "VOTE: Catlord because he's fucking obvscum. Why isn't he dead yet? More on this later." Writes a fairly convincing piece than says "J.K. just reaction fishing, going to go vote insanity since all he's done the whole game is defend himself providing plenty of info which I just used to rationalize my vote on Cat."
6. I think he switched to insanity to establish consistency and rationalizing why he got off Cat. For later. But it just comes off as hypocritical to me. If he had carefully read (which he obviously did) then why did he attack insanity who has already done nothing but talk about himself? People were on and continue to be on his case. Zephyr even criticizes Kuro for the same activity of attacking Shaboo when the pressure was already on!
7. Zephyr has been a good reader, noticed that he was not in the best position town cred wise because of Gadian, and has been trying to establish Town cred but has not yet been investigated himself. At the very least now is a good time to see how he likes being hit with the heat.
8. "If neutrality is a scumtell with one person it's a scumtell in every person" This adds to sixth argument and is consistent to defending Gadian's actions.
There's probably more, but if this isn't enough, then 3 more pieces aren't going to convince you.
Tell me how I did, since this is the first argument I've made so far.-
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Just because it's near my bed time doesn't excuse how bad this post looked. I should have checked my spacing. The first paragraph was useless. There were many grammatical and punctuation errors. That was a painful test post. And I'm sorry. Please chalk it up to "overexcited newbie." I will do better in the morning.-
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I read what you wrote Hawk. You're right, it is not a good basis for accusation. That stated Gadian is, regardless of Zephyr, not looking good in my books. I don't think it's possible to defend
his play.
I have a quick question before going to bed. I heard that there is a night time where scum can talk to each other, but everyone else can't. When is this time?-
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In post 413, Rob14 wrote:Confirmed. Will be reading today and then getting up a comprehensive reads post.
Hi Rob, I read your post in the queue, I'll refrain from doing it in the future.
Response to MrZephyr's points.
1. The point of accusing you to be scum because you know I'm scum has already been refuted by Eagle. I appreciate a second telling off though!
2. If you turned around and called me scum I would say that you're wasting everyone's time. I will answer every question honestly and I'll provide plenty of evidence against myself in the process. Pressuring me won't reveal much that you don't already know regardless if you're scum or not. Better to waste resources on players you know are generally quiet.
3. You said there was nothing you could do to remedy Gadian's play, yet you admit to starting out strong like you did to remedy his play. (To stop players wasting their time accusing you).
4. You stopped pursuing Insanity because he was a jerk? I don't think being a jerk or being polite are tells or admissions to anything. You're right to it being somewhat detrimental to the game, but he is providing information about himself which is, I think, a quarter of the job of a town member. Also, he can easily make the excuse that he's defending himself in order to see who's scum by accessing their reactions. A lot of his posts come off this way.
5. This point confuses me. You're basically saying that you don't want to be accused and lynched by scum. Which is perfectly reasonable as a player. But it doesn't actually say anything.
6. I will continue to try then.
Additional notes: I don't think Mafia was scum because his first game he got lynched day 1 as town. If he were scum I think he would stay for the novelty. This might be what you called "meta" Mr. Ree.-
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Re-read the whole thread again.
Okay, going to make another push for Zephyr pressure. This is going to be more personalized. I want 3 other votes on him.
Mr. Ree.
1. Amish point against Zephyr.
I should clarify that it's not that I didn't read the pages, I just didn't bother analyzing them the same wayI did the first 10 pages or so"
Gadian's last post was post #224 This means he only read up to where he stopped posting. This points to him having read Gadian's posts and, while this might come of as straw-manny, admits to being less interested in anyone elses.
Mr. Insanity.
1. You state you were up for voting for either Zephyr or Hawk. I'm asking you follow up on that. Obviously I need to give you a reason to vote for Zephyr over Hawk. Comes up in point 2.
2. I think you're town, Hawk is not sure. I will defend you if you get on this wagon and you can get off it if you don't like where it is going. zephyr and Hawk agree that you're suspicious, when you're merely doing your thing. If you survive round two it will not be difficult for them to agree (regardless of their alignment) to lynch you just to be safe. They'll do this because they don't like your play style. Which I don't think is that uncommon on this site.
Mr. Cub.
1. You agree on one of my lines of attack. I agree it doesn't link him to cat in anyway. The pairing is a gut move on my part. But notice I attacked Zephyr over Cat, even though he doesn't have a wagon and is less likely to get lynched as a result. The reason I did that, is because Cat is successfully defending himself. But Zephyr hasn't had to. Please vote on Zephyr.
Additional question: Mr. Ree. I realize I don't actually know what to look for when scum-hunting, can you tell me what I should be looking for when scum-hunting? I've been reading the Wiki too, but some personalized advice would help.-
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Okay Insanity.
Hawk I'm neutral on. It goes into WIFOM? territory. I won't go into Wifom unless you want it (If you want it ask, and I'll write it up). For now I'll just give a general feel, which I assume is worthless to you based on your love of logic.
I think that Hawk is either active town trying to lead, or active scum trying to lead. The only other thing I've noticed is that he's associated himself with a bunch of players. Sometimes it looks like he's stealing the opinions of others instead of agreeing with them and I don't necessarily disagree with Kuro's point that it looks like his questions are set ups.
However, Hawk has been willing to give information about himself, which makes me hesitate to throw him under the bus right now. This is because there's plenty you can tie to him. The way he's covering his tracks is in itself a tell, which I think is valuable.
Like I said, if you want Wifom, I'll give you Wifom. Just make sure you have a paper bag after.-
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The part where I said he's covering his tracks. This is something that someone who believes themselves under scrutiny does to protect their partner or to protect themselves to save other townies time.
The reason I say null is because I can interpret his actions 10 different ways. But they're just narratives, one created by Kuro. Some of it, such as Hawk agreeing with an unusual number of players, is temporal-evidence, but not legitimate until he gets killed. Either way he's providing evidence. Which is something other players haven't done (hint, hint Zephyr).-
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I am actually starting to get tired of your base-less attacks. If you have something legit to say, then do it, but quit attacking people on personal merit. I have put a lot of time into this game and no, my reasoning isn't weak. It maylookweak to you, but its not. Do you honestly think scum is going to hand themselves over to us on a silver-platter?If you want me to point out everything I have done and accomplished in the game I could make a whole super-long post about it, but there wouldn't be a point to it.
Not a bad idea, could you summarize it while I wait for Ree to post and Rob to catch up?
Obviously, since I'm asking you to. I will provide two reasons for you to do so.
1. It allows you to get perspective on what you've done so far.
2. It allows me to see where you're coming from, I have a hard time understanding your posts, especially this post, which seems like an attention grabber and a waste of Insanities time as well as towns. Go on, for science.-
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I think once Rob catches up we'll be in position to hammer (if Zephyr wants to defend himself, he can post in between then).
Thanks for your support Ree, Insanity. I partly pursued Zephyr as hard as I did because of your "analyzing wagon" post, it really hit home how important actions are in this game. I think I'll stick to pressuring for people to DO stuff rather than talk for the rest of this game (if I don't get stabbed/shot).
Also, no pressure, but could you respond to post #414 (dunno how to link it)? Thanks.-
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Now, before I go to bed I would just like to say one last thing to all of you. I imagine at this point Zephyr is preparing a large argument, working the wheels in that ol' noggin of his and hoping that Kuro will be a sufficient distraction to get people off his case. But before you post that, and convince me, convince me hard with your amazing argument that absolutely obliterates my sunk cost fallacy and hard-earned confirmation bias, I would like to make an argument in return sir. I call it:
An appeal to pity
As you know, I am a complete newbie at this game, I am tiny, inexperienced, and frankly, have no clue what I'm doing. You were here, once Zephyr, you were here. In my shoes. Now, I wanted to start off my first game with a bang, Zephyr, a bang. I imagine that most newbies get lynched within the first day, maybe the second if they're lucky. Unable to defend themselves and contradicting themselves all over the place they're found easy targets by wiser scum who don't want to waste the night kill. For them, it is like taking candy from a baby Zephyr, Candy. From. A baby. You wouldn't steal candy from a baby would you Zephyr? No, of course you wouldn't. You're better than that. As you know, I will one day get out of this newbie pool and enter the big kids table, with their glassy stares and scarred, sexy visages, cigars in their mouths, with a stony continence. they'll have that on me, Zephyr they'll havestories.but I won't. Not unless you do something for me. I am appealing to your humanity when I ask you to do this, with my tiny voice I am stretching my deflated lungs here. I am pleading with you, Zephyr, please take your vote, the vote that changes everything, the vote that defines you as a human being in this place, and vote to kill yourself. I am asking this of you for you this for two reasons: 1) I want to be the first newbie that convinced scum(or town) to kill himself with his own vote on his first day with an appeal to pity argument. I will be remembered for this, take a look at my name Zephyr, I don't desire much, I just want to be...Remembered. 2) I will take it as a formal apology for forcing me to read your league of legends posts while examining your meta, I felt sick afterward.
That is all. I expect to see a dead body in here when I wake up. Have a good evening guys!-
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Good morning fellows, I’ve responses for you at the bottom of my post, but first I want to deal with Zephyr’s counter arguments. Those not Zephyr don’t have to read it because it’s mostly flavored criticism, and also really long. With that said: Ethos/pathos/minor role play on.
1. Hi Zethyr, if you think I responded to your post within 6 minutes, then you give me too much credit. If I didn’t respond to your post, then how did I predict you would attack Kuro? Easy, it was the most selfish thing I could think of. You’ve devalued an important aspect of a who-dunnit game where you cannot win without the assistance of other players: argument. You’ve put the truth on hold for self-preservation, turned the sacred search for truth, into mere sophistry. DO YOU THINK IT’S OKAY TO THROW THAT VOTE AROUND WILLY-NILLY LIKE IT AIN’T NO THANG? HAVE YOU NO DECENCY? PEOPLE’S LIVES HANG IN THE BALANCE MAN, AND WHAT’S WORSE, YOUR ARGUMENT FOR DOING SO IS THINNER THAN THE PAPER USED FOR YOUR VOTE (There’s no paper here, it’s the internet). I DEMAND YOU UNVOTE THAT MAN RIGHT NOW, YOU DO NOT THROW A MAN UNDER THE TROUGH TO PROTECT YOURSELF. BEFORE USING THAT VOTE AGAIN ASK YOURSELF IF IT WOULDN’T BE BETTER SPENT ON YOURSELF FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR COMMUNITY. I’m totally new to this game, so, I’m unsure if this is a legitimate scum-tell, but I think that the fact you’ve done this shows that you’re scum, or town that forgot who he was (that or you’re just confusing me, but that can be cleared up once you’re dead!).
2. The reason we should not lynch Kuro this round is because he has presented himself as a hypothesis crafter, like Ree. He has demonstrated his craft by presenting an explanation for Hawk’s slightly-off actions, and somewhat convincingly at that. While this is a selfish style of play (basically asking to be kept alive to provide helpful input in the second round once the evidence accumulates), it is still a legitimate play style. In the next round, if they cannot pay up on their promise to provide good explanations for behavior witnessed in round one, then they have betrayed that promise and are now semi-scummy. I will investigate them and their hypotheses when, not before, they give them, dead-line mid-round two.
3. You, on the other hand, have presented yourself as a searcher, like me, someone trying to extort explanations and actions from other players for evidence for the hypothesis crafters. It is our job to build wagons and question people. You’ve proven no good at hypothesis, especially after this Kuro accusation. As searchers we take the brunt of the scrutiny and die willingly to provide timely evidence for the other players. A problem that has cropped up at this point for you is that by stretching the truth like this to get people off you, you've also devalued your worth as a searcher. If you're willing to postpone your search to stay alive, why not just kill you and have a better searcher in round two? Also, I reject your "give me time to build a case on Hawk" You've failed to provide a single convincing argument or hypothesis.
4. When a person dies, and a player flips, a piece of the 9 person puzzle gets “set” and we now know, in general, what that player was doing and thinking. We can use that information to analyze their interaction with their perspective in mind. There are 19 pages worth of posts, there’s plenty to analyze and somebody has to die so we can work on new evidence. As a town member, die with dignity so that we can use it for a town victory.
5. With that overblown piece, I end with your own post
With an addition that I think much improves it“I'm willing to let this guy hang”
Off/Pathos/ethos/minor role play.“For the good of the community.”
P.S. We can still be buddies, right? :<
@ProHawk It’s good to know my humor is likable
@Cub, I appreciate that you Loled, I’ll look at that game when I have time later.
@Mr. Ree. I’m glad you enjoyed it! If you really enjoyed it maybe, you could post it in the award 2013 thread later for a funny post award. I doubt it will be the funniest, but hey, they might get a kick out of it. In reply to your question about Mafia, that was a mistake on my part, I meant The Godfather. A player who replaced in then replaced out almost instantly. I think Rob is not scum because God father replaced out so quickly for the reasoning mentioned.
@Everyone else, please don’t kill Zephyr until Rob posts what he makes of these events, he seems like a really good player and I think his input matters.
(I’m not the boss of you, but someone has to say it, might as well be the wordy one)-
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You've provided 3 things to our discussion.
1. Evidence of Cat on Lurking status
2. A voting pattern showing sheep.
3. Heavy amounts of projection onto cat.
Two of these things support your argument. One of them does not.
I''ll think about changing my vote, but I'd like you to give a reason why we shouldn't lynch Zephyr then, lynch cat next round. Zephyr has no reason to be kept around.-
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Projection is not really the right word, I'll give you my meaning: Looking at the actions of another player and thinking about how you would react. Using your own reactions and habits as a basis for their actions. Just because you think and act a certain way, doesn't mean everyone else does. It is taking a walk in their shoes without considering the history of their personalities(where the shoes have been before you got in them). This is unfortunate, since, if he had some meta, I'd be more willing to accept this part of your argument.
Before providing a short, summarized list, I just want to remind you that these reasons are bad. Please evaluate them individually. If you find one as valid compound it with all other valid entries. If Zephyr is spared we can pick over this list later. I'll be frank, none of these are definitive proof that Zephyr is scum.
1. Amish tell.
2. Early random voting, with poorly constructed reasoning for doing so. When he had good reasons to keep up the pressure he left off (Cat). Uses a flimsy excuse to vote insanity, and an even flimsier one when backing off ("he didn't respond the way I wanted, /vote," "He's a jerk, /unvote.")
3. Selfish voting to keep self alive (Kuro).
4. Contradictions, often found in own posts. You used WIFOM as a reason not to keep Cat alive, I used it before you did, as a reason to end Zephyr. See Insanities post #426 for one of many examples, they actually got so bad that I decided not to comment on them.
5. Poorly constructed hypotheses and narratives on other player's actions (not going to be helpful round 2).
6. Gadian's "investigative reporting."
7. Didn't vote himself after my appeal to pity. The man is heartless, which is a scum tell.
That said, I read cat's post while making this one, and it comes off really suspicious. It's something I would write if I was under suspicion when I was 15. But maybe now that I'm older, I've just become prejudiced. Anyway, I don't want to lynch cat this round. But if I absolutely had to choose someone other than Zephyr, I'd choose Cat.-
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Re: 7: Literally just something that came into my head and I thought was funny. See how you posted that image of that guy with the sun-glasses? Same thing. Mine was more creative though
Okay. Unfortunately Zephyr has just tried to "buddy" you. He's also is flirting his vote. Of course, you will respond with "he also had him as a scum read initially." But if he had him as a true scum read, would he really have flipped off him that fast? Sorry, court your vote else where. Try Cub.-
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It just occurred to me that if Zephyr's scum then there's no way to get a counter-claim because he'll know there is no other cop. Therefore, two players would have to confirm a power role to 100% lynch cat. This would help his scum buddy (if he's scum). So, it's hard to lynch Zephyr right now...Hmm.-
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Gadian's play fits the bill better. It would explain his unwillingness to stand out.
Not seeing a cop's play in Zephyrs. But this may just be because I'm inexperienced. The only thing, I get from this claim, is that it explains his selfish voting and case-building.
I don't like it, no matter how I look at Zephyr's post. Still, with the role claim he might be worth keeping around until someone contradicts him. It also gives us a trail to work with, he's provided evidence we can use against him later. So I'll withdraw the lack of constructive evidence accusation.
You got your vote from Hawk, that's 3 votes. I see no reason to put him at L-1 until Ree posts. Once he does, I'll lynch Cat.-
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Okay guys, I'm going to be gone for about 8 hours, so if someone is lynched before I get back, here were my town and scum reads at the end of day 1:
Town: Insanity, Rob, Cub.
Neutral: (they want to be here, minus hawk) Kuro, Ree, Hawk.
Scummy: Cat, Zephyr.
My Will: In the unfortunate occurrence of my sudden passing please consider the following actions:
1. Ask Ree and Kuro to provide their hypotheses for town scum. Only look at their logical, not ethical or emotional arguments. They don’t get to use that since they’re getting a free pass round one. If they do not provide adequate information (or, if they give scummy hypotheses), pressure them, a lot.
2. Let Rob be Rob. I really do think he’s town as all hell. Day 3, if he makes it, restart your assumption and think about it.
3. Pressure Cub a bit. He’s always looked perfect town in his games. Might as well shake him violently and see if anything falls out.
4. Hawk, try asking fewer questions and letting people respond to them. I’ve realized, I need to chill with my posts too, it’s unfair to expect a response to everything. Just take what they choose not to respond to as evidence. Also, It’s not a bad idea to look Hawk over, I never said anything, but he’s never bothered to question me. Maybe I’m just bitter at the lack of attention from those sexy avatar eyes.
5. Cat, If he is not lynched today, lynch if there is so much as a suspect phrase.
6. Insanity. Yeah, I have no clue. Just do your thing, see where it takes you.
7. Zephyr: If he survives, leave off him until near the end of day 2. He might have gotten a read and is trying to do something with it. Still, I find his posting suspect.-
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Reading up on detecting cops.
Looked at Wiki, he pings up to 5% as cop (quick voting).
Scum reads, he pings 30% (5% comes from an admittedly insane person, Zephyr pinged 3 on his list, he had no percentages, so I put 2% on 2 of his reads I thought were legit and 1% on one I don't really agree with)
Overall, I don't care that he pinged 30%, I don't want to lynch a potential cop day 1.
Gunna let Ree say his piece tomorrow. Then Imma hammer cat. (unless Ree comes up with something amazing).
I've been reading what Cat has been saying and I don't like his case that much though. The only scummy thing he's ever said is
But at this point, it's better than nothing.CatLord wrote: I was just about to jump on this small bandwagon, but I realised that since it takes five to lynch and two Mafia...having three votes on a person we are not sure about does not sound like a good idea...
Usually, I don't like using direct questioning, but can you show me the tells you left as cop Zephyr? Thanks.-
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color me impressed.-
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Okay, effort post time. I've reread the thread for the third time.
First off, Zephyr just hit 45% scum ping. If he had claimed vanilla town, he would've been lynched. He knows it, and we know it. Hehadto claim cop, regardless if he is scum or actual cop. For this reason, I reject Ree comparing himself to Zephyr. I think Ree would use smaller scum tells and look for who picked up on them for an easy lynch, as well as examining the wagon. Ree wouldn't have used this many scum tells because it would just get him lynched and defeat the purpose(no point guaranteeing his lynch as town). Especially given his role as cop. I don't see a reason for this much suspicious activity, resulting in a claim 1st day, just to scum hunt day 1. From the previous sentence, you can surmise that I disprove of Zephyr's actions this round, if he was an actual cop. This recent exchange between Zephyr and Cat makes both of them more suspicious in my eyes too (it looks like scum talking to scum).
While, I'm new and you're an I.C. Ree, I disagree with our lack of stuff to go off of. We have lines of inquiry on Rob, Kuro, Hawk, you, and most recently Cub. We can (or you guys can if I die) question insanity and get things going on him day 2 if you/we want. I just hope you guys can come up with a better reason than "I don't like his playstyle, boohoo."
With that said,/Vote Catlord
Why? Because I sympathize. It's unfortunate, but some of us are a little more obsessive than others. Good luck with your exams!
See you later, Space Cat.-
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At first, I was thinking of arguing why I must be town. However, I think I'm going to be a bit more...neutral this time and just wait for it to come up before crushing the opposition's argument. That said, I need an adult. Ree, what should I have done? What are some things I should be doing to look for scum? I've read a few Mafia theory threads, and I intend to follow their advice while also remembering to be myself and formulate my own plans. Hopefully, I will not kill an innocent man this round.
I look forward to seeing what everyone thinks about everyone else now that the first round is over.-
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I've already looked, Ree is spotless (In that he has nothing that could point to him as scum). Kuror, slightly less so, but he's pretty low my list.
Rob, why do you think that Hawk is not scum just because he protected cat so much? Cat wasn't that dangerous, from a gameplay perspective. He didn't have much time, his reads were somewhat flimsy, and he could barely defend himself. Scum want guys like him around because it's unlikely they could form a convincing argument to get themselves off a lynch late game or convince others to lynch a positive scum read.-
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The only reasonable thing I can think of right now, the only answer that makes any sort of sense,Zephyr's mind wrote: "I need to tell my scum buddy they have a Jail keeper! GOGOGOGOGOGO"
Regardless,/Vote MrZephyrI might change my mind, If a good explanation can be given since I just hanged an innocent player.-
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Nope. My arguments aren't dumb, you just made a mistake Zephyr. You gave away a power role of towns. You can't say that wasn't, at best a mistake.
Also, seriously, I have been following other leads. I was tunelling you because I had nothing better day 1. Today, however, I have more information and am observing their actions.
Getting angry is just a tactic to get someone off your case. I'm used to people getting angry and defensive regardless of whether they're guilty or not. For now I keep my vote where it is.-
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There were other ways to do it, Hawk.
Oh well./Unvote MrZephyr
Still, I really do want to understand why anyone would Jail keep Zephyr. It's strange, because he's pretty useless if he can't hunt. In reverse, giving out that there was a jail keep is anti-town in my books. Being truthful is well and good, but I don't give out all my reads or information for a reason. If someone's under suspicion, do I tell them what I'm looking for? No, because if I did, they wouldn't do it.-
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Wow, Hawk. I'm going to ask this question again.
"If you want me to point out everything I have done and accomplished in the game I could make a whole super-long post about it, but there wouldn't be a point to it."
"Not a bad idea, could you summarize it while I wait for Ree to post and Rob to catch up?"
Not asking for science this time Hawk. Give this information to me. Or your heavy scum.-
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