Newbie 1378 - Game Over! (Town Wins)

[RadiantCowbells]

Ucrit is sort of too scummy to be scum to my sensibilities right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: ucriton00

Still looks scummy to me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I read Ucrit's previous games and I don't think the too scummy to be scum defense applies in this situation.

[RadiantCowbells]

Town or scum, I've found that whenever I'm talkative I get lynched or pushed on immediately. See all but one of my (other) current games where I have or am or was in the process of being lynched on my first day replaced in or the day that it started, 1347, and my first game ever, 1335.

I'm good at scumhunting but not so good at arguing that I'm town, so I feel like it's in the town's best interest if I sit back and let other's duke it out until I have a strong opinion as to who the scum is, then point out that they are scum, have the town lynch me instead, then perhaps have that person get lynched the next day.

[RadiantCowbells]

I love your crowley avatar.

[RadiantCowbells]

I do XD

[RadiantCowbells]

What I say is that I have been pressured and nearly lynched D1 ad nauseam, and until I have a scumread I'm willing to bet my life on I am going to be quiet and not die.

I find it interesting that you pressure me for explaining why I'm not talking but don't pressure the people who are lurking with no explanation.

Kind of proves my point, doesn't it?

[RadiantCowbells]

Of course I see everything. How would I be able to scumhunt if I wasn't reading?

Why do you think it makes me more scummy that I respond to your probing, as opposed to less scummy?

[RadiantCowbells]

I will talk unilaterally the moment I have a concrete scumread on someone and feel that it is worth risking getting lynched myself in order to get them lynched.

There is no one I feel that strongly is scum yet, so I have yet to say anything.

I have a strong town read on one person, two slightly town reads, and one slightly scum read at the moment. My vote is on the person I consider slightly scum, so that speaks for itself. If a strong wagon builds on a person I consider town, I will try to divert that lynch.

I'd prefer to avoid getting attention drawn to me because I perform poorly under pressure, as the fact that I have been pressured hard D1 in four of my last games attests. Me getting lynched does not help town, so I will do my best to avoid it happening, like I would avoid getting any other confirmed clear lynched.

Do you grok now?

[RadiantCowbells]

Crazzy, your vote on me is so unequivocally absurd that I feel it merits an OMGUS vote.

Unless you can give me one reason that I am the scummiest person in the game.

VOTE: Crazzygoat

[RadiantCowbells]

This wagon will get to L-1.

Want me to just claim now?

[RadiantCowbells]

I guarantee you, that will just make people push on me more.

For the sake of proving this as a meta example, I will have at least 1000 words of reads within 24 hours, and then you guys will all find minor quibbles with things and use them as a reason that I'm scum, while the people who didn't post any reads at all are ignored and considered "town".

[RadiantCowbells]

The Cowbell's Reads.

Lucky2u.

Verdict: Leaning scum. He's the king of hell, after all.

All quotes in this section belong to Lucky2u.

My experience with Mafia games is in real life versions I've played at conventions. This is my second game on the site, I lost my first game as a vanilla townie to a perfect mafia victory.

Should I random vote now?

Asks for permission to random vote. Scummy.
Claims inexperience in first post. Scummy.
Previous game comment. Null.

VOTE: Crazzygoat

Well come on... he's a crazzy goat! ...with two z's! Need I say more?

Complete null.

Thanks mastin

I am very curious to see where you are going with uct.

Curious to see where he is going, but doesn't make a case of his own. Scummy.

I have a feeling Mastin is doing (excuse me I forget the short name for it) "vote so he can read the reaction" strategy. Otherwise, it's kind of weird to make a serious vote so early and then change to another serious vote rather quickly. I am still waiting to hear his explanation on ucriton. Speaking of which, in my first game we had a day 1 character like ucrit that dug himself a whole by getting more and more desperate like he is right now. He flipped vanilla when we lynched him and I regretted it because I initially defended that guy and was swayed by who I later found out to be the scum. I know all games are different, but I won't be in a rush to repeat my mistake and I plead to the other townies to think carefully about what they are doing.

I really hope the other players show up soon.

Was mostly okay with the push on UCT, but not at all okay with the push for this lynch, and tries to discredit it from afar. Scummy.
Also claims towny.

I'm glad to be right about Mastin. I don't see why calling that was a scum tell but oh well. Concerning why I asked about random vote in my first post, since it set some alarms with you all, it's because there were two posts before me that didn't random vote. In my first game, everyone came out the gate with a RVS, so I was thrown a bit off by that not happening this time.

As for my current scum reads, I'm leaning towards those who are saying the least but are still here. Like Radiant and Para. I don't have any strong town reads.

Apparently I'm scummy for doing the exact same thing he is.
Why are you so worried about what other people are doing, if you're not trying to fit into the crowd?

Sheesh Nul, so critical so fast.

Also, what do you mean by "at this point in the game"? We are in Day 1 with almost all of the two week deadline left and one player still yet to check in. In my opinion, it's still damn early and I won't rush myself because you are on a hammer hunt. You can keep your vote, but I'm not changing my play style.

This post actually looks very town. Does it do much to discredit the mounting scumminess?

Let me answer for him. No. It isn't and if he thinks it is, he will be the easiest one of the scum to manipulate. That is a horrible way to decide a town read, and please don't make that same mistake.

Yeah, it's a horrible way to decide a town read.

This post would be very town but something about the way it's written makes me .

supernatural is awesome shut up moose blah blah blah

<3 Supernatural.

Mattel: Easiest, he has one post and just showed up. I am not willingly to say anything about him. No Read.

Mastin: He is the IC and his posts have been very informative (even though half of it has been why I'm scum). I liked his opening strat of using votes to get reactions, I think this is the most town thing he's done. It's possible to have done it as a scum looking to appear town, but that's just me being paranoid about IC's experiance I think. He has a Town Read from me.

Ucrit: As I said in an earlier post, he reminds alot of someone in my first game who got blamed on day 1 and started flaying. It's so similar that I really think it would be the same result if he got lynched. Town Read.

Crazzygoat: Looking at his posts, he seems to be playing it safe. Nothing about him screams scum or town. He has asked questions, and made reads but he is not committing to anything that could be used against him. No Read.

Jason: He has been REALLY aggressive so far in this game. I feel like scum would avoid being aggressive. Still, the way he is also being so rude at times makes me think of a guilty person. So I have to say l have a light Scum Read on him.

Radiant: My fellow hunter here bothers me because he joined the ucrit wagon briefly (still has his vote there) and then sort of sat back and did nothing else. He mentioned how if he talks he tends to get lynched but that is a bad excuse to not be active. Sorry buddy but Scum Read....

Paradigm: Checked in on page 2 and has a total of 2 posts. Either super lazy town that needs to be replaced or laying low scum that we should lynch soon. Scum Read, because the latter seems more likely.

Nul: You've been really aggressive toward me (and others) so far this game, but after ISO'ing myself I can't really blame you. The difference between your aggressiveness and Jason's is that you are asking questions and trying to get us to move on. Town Read - but this doesn't mean we're friends.

Lucky2u: Well clearly this guy is town, just look at his avatar! Crowley the King of Hell has never lied or cheated anyone before, you can trust him. Super Town Read.

The whole "easiest" thing is not something I like.
Why would thought turn to easiness unless you were trying to fake leads?
On the subject of Ucrit, this whole white knighting interests me. I'd have more to say about it if I got a flip on either of them.
Why do you think someone who has been as super avoidant as Crazzygoat is not scum?
Yeah, Jason comes in with way too big of an ego.
So when I say it it's a bad excuse, but when you use it to justify your own actions it's not?
I agree about Null. He's probably my biggest town read thus far in the game.

Because I realized I never answered your first question Nul

I answered the question because it was such an obvious one. It may not have been meant for me, but I don't think ucrit was asking it seriously either. He was trying to make the same point I was. It's a bad idea to town read people who agree with you on one thing.

Something about the way he keeps reiterating this idea strikes me as scum with the thought process "zomg! that doesnt make you town and i didnt think of it first and if I try to copy i'll just look like scum so STOP DOING IT so I can look town and you don't." If you get my meaning?

I actually expected that reaction from Jason. I can't say for certain whether he is scum or not, but he would be worth getting rid of either way. He is borderline crazy, (see the "GIBWPGEIHBOAIN" in his last post) and even if he is a town will do more damage than good.

Also, while he contests my logic on his read (and thats fine, it makes sense atleast), he shoots down the rest of my reads by just saying they are terrible and not saying why. Either he didn't read them, he was too blinded by crazy when I scum read him, or he was too lazy to give reasons. None of those are good excuses for a sweeping generalization like that.

Also, the only reason I was reluctant to make the reads wasn't because I didn't want to do it, it was because Nul was the person who asked me. Nul had just criticized me one page ago about my reads. He asked nicely though, so I didn't see a problem with it.

VOTE: JasonWazza

I really don't like this guy.

It's okay, I don't like him either.

Keep talking Jason. If you say things louder and ruder, it makes them more true.

Hello, boys.

Am I missing something here? Who is that "regardless of what you think" aimed at? Are you playing this game on drugs

Teehee silly boyz.

I think Radiant said it best "...I've found that whenever I'm talkative I get lynched or pushed on immediately...". So yea it can be a bad thing. That's why one scum strategy is to lurk, they know by speaking up it does exactly what you are doing to me.

When Radiant does it, it's a terrible excuse. When I do it, I'm a shining beacon of towny awesomeness.

No, it's called a sense of humor, not Freudian slip. In order to fully understand, please kindly bend over, reach around behind you, then remove stick from ass. Also, it is possible to not be friends and be on the same team. Have you never had a job? or been put in a group for a school project? or played a game of Mafia in RL?

My name is Obama and I approve of this message.

I want to vote for Jason because his crazy aggressiveness will end in a scum victory, regardless of whether he is scum or not. I pray that some of you see that too, if not, I'll join the paradigm wagon. If you insist on voting for me, make sure you take a close look at Nul in the next day, since he is the one leading this wagon.

So, you think Nul is town, but you also want Nul lynchd because he's voting for you, even though you Iso'd yourself and think that you would want to vote yourself.

You are like Fox News dude, you pulled a sentence out of context to use against me. I was talking about why speaking up is bad and how scum don't do that. (the implication I was making is scum lurk and I am not lurking, hence I =/= scum) There is no reason for me to have explain that. Why you ask? Because you either are too stupid to understand that or you don't care and are just trying to lynch me regardless. I am explaining it anyway, because the worse your arguments get against me, the more you will expose yourself as scum.

There should be a Godwin's Law for mafia involving comparisons to Fox News. The side that invokes a Fox News comparison automatically loses the argument. Do you genuinely not see the holes in your own stance that you purported to notice before, or do you really think that anyone is being exposed as scum?

@Crazzy It's an accidental slip that reveals an unconscious motive that you didn't mean to reveal.

No I'm not going to stop Ad Hominem, because this isn't a trial where you are the lawyer questioning a suspect. You are a suspect questioning another suspect. Therefor it is perfectly valid for me to point out how you are flawed so that the other people in this room (who are being eerily quiet, I would like to hear some other voices please) can take that into consideration. I mean if the town fool cries wolf, you only half listen.

How about a Reductio ad FoxNewsium? You should google that too.
Ad hominem attacks actually apply to a decent extent in mafia, anyway, because normally calling someone scummy would be an ad hominem, but not in Mafia, because it's a game of figuring out who the scummy people are.

From now on, you should call Jason moose. That will teach him.

It's hard to tell if Radiant is really this gun shy legitimately or not. Either way I'm not sure his reserved nature helps us out when he is so guarded about his reads. Right now The biggest talkers have been Nul and me over the last few pages. We need more input from all sides, and I would like to know what happened to Mattel who claimed he would catch up the night he checked in, two days ago.

Honestly, I'm not. I just wanted to try a new meta. I'm actually usually extremely aggressive and pushy, but that causes me to get lynched day one, so I tried the polar opposite. Obviously, it worked no better. I do well as mafia being aggressive, but not as town v.v

I really feel like I'm getting no where in going back and forth against Nul. His last few posts show that I can keep it up but I'll never change HIS mind. If anyone else is looking for answers from me, feel free to ask and I'll reply.

UNVOTE:

We are so scattered in our votes right now that I think who ever we end up on, it's going to be more luck than anything. The odds are not in our favor and regardless of "tells", all current evidence against everyone is weak and circumstantial. Radiant is on Crazzy, Nul is on me, Jason is on Radiant, Paradigm is on Mastin, Ucrit is on Jason, I was on Nul, and two people aren't voting, one who is V/LA. It's all a mess right now and if you look at it visually we are all standing in a circle pointing in random directions. I know some of you are going to read this and chastise me again for "not contributing" or say that this doesn't help us, but I think it does. Seven town and two scum, with everyone so wildly different in their votes. This means that whoever you are voting for, probably isn't scum. So follow me down this thread for a second. With my vote removed, there are five people with votes on them. Me, Mastin, Radiant, Crazzy, and Jason. The people voting for those people can't ALL be right, but you could ALL be wrong. We have nine days left, which is good because we aren't even close. I'm putting myself back at square one and going to redo my reads, because something is wrong.

Crowley, what exactly was the purpose of this post? Explain it to me clearly.

I don't know how quotable a line that is... While I understand he was trying to make it an insult, it comes off that the amount of times I've had sex is a large number, but that the number of games you've played is SO large it surpasses even that. For example, Jason, You've played more games of mafia than Willy Nelson has hit the bong.

The implication that Nul inadvertently makes is that while I am having sex, you are here playing Mafia.... I'm ok with that scenario to be honest. Rather be getting laid than be good at this game. You know what they say though, to each their own.

Side note: It doesn't alter my read in either direction but wasn't Nul telling ME not to use Ad Hominem? Perhaps I touched a nerve somewhere...

Frankly, outside of oral I had performed on me a few weeks ago, I haven't had sex in eight years. I'm starting to rekindle my enthusiasm for it though.


TOTAL VERDICT.

Yeah, he's probably scum.

VOTE: Crowley

Vote not counted as it was not placed on a player in this game. If you were referring to someone by nickname, please clarify and in the future use their name as it appears in the player list.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mod Edit: Removing duplicate post

[RadiantCowbells]

Now I have a strong scum read and I feel no reason to do any more reads today, because I'll get shot tonight if I don't get doc/jked, and if I do then I'll post them tomorrow.

With love, Radiantus Cowbellus

[RadiantCowbells]

But, if scum thinks I'm a PR because I'm trying to avoid being shot, they'll shoot me when I'm a VT.

But if I'm a PR, scum thinks I'm just wifoming a PR by being hestitant to stand out.

Or, a second level of meta, what if I'm a PR but my PR is bulletproof townie- so I actually WANT to be shot.

Mafia games are like ogres. They have layers.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lucky, whenever I get voted up as town, my first step is to look to see who is probably scum on my wagon.

My next step is to go HAM to get them lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

So, assuming you're town, do you think Nul, Moose, or I are scum? If so, you should probably push us to get lynched instead.

If not, just look at and gauge reactions and see who is probably scum based on their reactions to your wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think that Crowley is scum either.

You're just a townie who is scared of getting lynched so you're going to passive aggressively lay the seeds for the lynch of another without having to put yourself behind the wagon, which would make you look scummy if I flipped town.

[RadiantCowbells]

er... am I giving him too much credit in intelligence?

He's a fucking moose.

Have you seen a moose's brain?

[RadiantCowbells]

Gotta put him on demon blood detox.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, you didn't get my Crowley reference :v

VOTE: Lucky2u

[RadiantCowbells]

Lucky, you need to claim now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree Mattel's vote is shit, but I'm not attributing that to being scum right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's no rush to hammer, and furthering discussion only favours town.

If Crowley is to flip scum, I would highly recommend a Mastin2 lynch tomorrow.

He sort of backed off from posting when Crowley started getting pushed on, and then when he started addressing the idea he addressed him as scum in a scumteam, instead of directly talking about what makes him individually scummy. I do not like it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mattel, why do you gotta be like this?

@Lucky2u lol.

[RadiantCowbells]

IMO Jason's actions towards mattel were unnecessary, but he's right in principle.

I don't want to get into this debate though, because I feel like Mastin is bringing it up to divert attention from his partner's lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I dislike you but consider you obvtown.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ucrit is an idiot and I don't want to continue discussion until we get a votecount and an extension.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright. I still feel that no more discussion is really necessary.

Lucky2u is one of the scums, and the other scum is on my wagon.

Jason, switch your vote back to Lucky please.

[RadiantCowbells]

Crazzy, Paradigm, do you have anything to say about my case on why Lucky is scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

No.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I get hammered, lynch JasonWazza tomorrow. Don't even discuss it.

[RadiantCowbells]

In fact, yeah.

Jason being willing to vote me up confirms him for me as scum. The other people on my wagon are just stupid.

If I get the word from any two people that they will lynch him tomorrow, I'll self-hammer so I can confirm myself as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am not claiming.

VOTE: JasonWazza

[RadiantCowbells]

Jason is a good enough player to know that I am town.

If he's lynching me, it's not because he thinks I'm scum.

Therefore, I want a Jason lynch more than I even want a lucky lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

I was doctor.

Lynch Jason tomorrow. Worry about Lucky and others some other day.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I am fucking serious: you lynch Jason tomorrow.

Don't even have a discussion.

[RadiantCowbells]

Doctor for one scum trade is worth it FMPOV.

Nah, you're scum. Your 180 was terrible.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, if there's a cop which is a significant possibility, check one of the other people on my wagon. Ucrit or Crowley are the most likely scum.

Don't out if you get an inno; do out if you get a guilty.

Jason, you looked so scummy to me that I was willing to selfhammer with the premise that you get lynched tomorrow.
If you were town (which you're not) you should think hard about why I feel that way.

[RadiantCowbells]

Cop should check UCrit, if there is one.

Out if you get a guilty. Otherwise, just go ahead and lynch Jason.

[RadiantCowbells]

You know I'm town.

You voted me.

Ergo, you're scum.

You're not doing anything to disprove that.

[RadiantCowbells]

For the town's sake so you don't only have my word for it:

Please read everything Jason has said. Does any of it indicate that he considers me scum? No, he's always talking to me like I'm town.

He did the whole day in fact, which lead me to believe that he had a (justified) townread on me.

Then all of a sudden he says that he thinks I'm scum, but still talks to me like I'm town.

I said something earlier that made him think I might be a PR, so he tries to role fish me by putting me up to L-1.

And then after I self hammer he continues talking to me like I'm town.


Jason is scum. Cop can even waste their invest on him tonight if they want to confirm what they already know.

[RadiantCowbells]

For clarification:

Isolation #3 and #8 do give an inkling that I could be a PR, so he tries to rolefish.

Nowhere in his immediate reaction does it indicate that he thought I was scum.

Compare and contrast reactions from Crowley and Crit with Jason's. It is so obvious that he knew I was town the entire time.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll give you my drunk answer because it's probably the honest one.

I don't care. I was 100% positive of Jason scum. If town didn't want to follow that lead, they can fucking lose. I don't selfvote as doctor lightly, and I'm not going to argue with a bunch of people fool enough to lynch their doc while alive. Blame the town for voting me up.

[RadiantCowbells]

Where I come from, the people who lynch town are considered the bad ones, not the town who got lynched by their fool comrades. That's one aspect of mafiascum I can't understand.

[RadiantCowbells]

You say that like they weren't fucktards stupid enough to vote up the doctor.