Mastin2
Hodge
Smurf Ninja Fan
Phokdapolees
I'd vote Marquis, but it seems that my predecessor did it for me. More votes on this scumbag would be nice.
You threw down a second RVS vote 2 posts after your first RVS vote. True, it was over 20 hours later, but that vote still did NOTHING to further discussion or the game in general. There were other ways to stimulate discussion, if that was what you were after, most notable being asking questions relating to someone's motivation or reasoning. For example, Karnage had just put down a serious vote on Mastin before that post. Why didn't you question him on it? The game was essentially out of RVS. RVS votes in general are not the best conversation starters, and another random vote outside of RVS was going to do NOTHING to further conversation. It was just a way to appear like you were trying to be proactive and stimulate discussion, when all you were really doing was trying to look town.In post 83, phokdapolees wrote: How exactly am I trying to "create the impression that I'm doing something?" If this is about my second RVS vote again, just read my previous posts. Again, it was early on in the game, and nobody was saying anything. I was simply trying to keep discussion going. How is that a scumtell? And I changed my vote after that to something more serious.
A lot of stuff can happen on d1. Scum can be caught on d1, in fact, scum can even be caught on the first page. Saying that nothing of importance happens on d1 is a copout for not scumhunting.In post 83, phokdapolees wrote: It's the first day, we really don't have that much information. I'm just using my own best guesses. Once we get to day 2, then we'll have actual evidence.
After the IC stuff, everything you do is geared toward finding scum, and it is not at all fake, as it is evident that you really want to find and lynch scum. Your question at the beginning of the game and subsequent annoyance, your interest in getting us out of RVS, and your wanting to make sure you had the truth of the matter in Marquis, all point to this. Your case on Marquis was terrific, and was in line with my thought process for the most part when I was reading the game. It was precise and spot on, which I rarely see at all from scum, as they tend to stretch for their points. There was no reaching whatsoever from you. You have also been more precise in your reasoning and argumentation than I've ever seen from you, and while that may be because you're the IC, I'd like to also believe that it's because you're town as well, and town in a teaching position to boot.In post 91, mastin2 wrote: What do you see in my play as being strongly town-oriented?
His eagerness to get out of RVS, which you don't see often in scum, plus he has been frequently inquiring about other people's motives, which means he's actually scumhunting.In post 91, mastin2 wrote: Where do you see the town-motivation from Karnage's posting?
Because while I think scum wouldn't be that blatant, I can't discount it. Otherwise, I'd be falling into the Too Scummy to be Scum fallacy. This is a Newbie game, which means that we're going to see a lot of things that are outside the range of a normal game on this site, simply because new players are playing. A lot of things that would be considered scummy in other sections of the site are simply newb tells here and say nothing about alignment. People tend to get newbiness confused with scumminess all the time, but at the same time, I've seen instances of incredibly transparent scum, that again, was the cause of said player's newbiness. Therefore, I have no reason of knowing if Smurf's remarks thus far are coming from scummy looking town or obv. scum. I'd rather keep him in the null category until I see enough from his play to satisfy me either way.In post 91, mastin2 wrote: Why is Smurf listed as null, when everything you're listing places him as at least null-town if not town?
In post 91, mastin2 wrote: What did you see in Marquis's post that you think was buddying?
Take a look at that second paragraph. He's caught flak from his attempt to get you mislynched, and his response is to unvote you, throw up his hands and say, "Don't lynch me oh townie one. Let's be friends.". He's hoping that his unvote will pacify you enough to get you off his back. It's a self-preservation tactic. It's buddying. And it's scummy.In post 68, Marquis wrote:i like your avatar. let's lynch scum together, my buddy
in hindsight my reasoning on mastin was bad and my vote was only on him because I was OMGUSing him. he actually looks town when I bother to read his posts UNVOTE: mastin
How am I conf. biasing? I read through the thread objectively upon replacing in and gave my reads. The fact that you are trying to dismiss them right off the bat by saying it's confirmation bias, tells me that I'm probably right on track.In post 103, Marquis wrote:i'm here and i'm town and so is phok and bluba is conf biasing or scum who either way ignores my blatant sarcasm as did some other people ok sleepytime bye~
That doesn't make Phok town at all, especially since newb scum like to go after lurkers.In post 110, mastin2 wrote:Phok locked onto the fact that Marjam hasn't been posting actively, and that showed some effort.
The whole lack of confidence in his play and the general sense that he's doing nothing. That's more of a newbie tell in these games than an actual scumtell. For an example, check out Mujie in Newbie 1377, and he was the town JK! Players who are especially new to the game tend to lack the confidence of more experienced players, and that lack of confidence tends to be misconstrued as scumminess. Give Marjam until d2 to get acclimated, and then if you want to build a scum case on him, do so on his actions and stances, not on how much he posts or how he posts.In post 110, mastin2 wrote: What made you declare Marjam's play as that of a "typical newbie"? (And for that matter, define what 'typical newbie' is.)
I had signed up as an SE in the Newbie queue, saw Amrun's request for a replacement, and though, "Eh, why not?".In post 110, mastin2 wrote: Why did you join this game?
His initial switch to Hodge was him trying to pacify you by unvoting you. That shouldn't weaken the read. It should strengthen it.In post 114, mastin2 wrote:His unvote and switch to Hodge--while being confusing and maybe-bad--is an acknowledgement that a mistake has been made. You can argue it's scum-acknowledging-they've-made-a-mistake, and yes, that's fully possible, but all the same, it weakened the read.
It depends on how ballsy the scum is, and Marquis has shown that he's willing to take on the IC.In post 114, mastin2 wrote: Targeting Hodge is going against popular opinion, another thing most scum players are not fond of doing.
Explain this one to me, because I'm not seeing it.In post 114, mastin2 wrote: 103 weakens it even further, because it soundsreally,.reallylegitimate
I hear this come up alot as reason to back off a wagon. However, you and I both have seen quickwagons develop on scum. I don't see how this is a tell.In post 114, mastin2 wrote: And the last factor is, as previously mentioned, the ease of the wagon. Marquis is getting lynched a bit too easily for him to realistically be as strong a scumread as I originally had.
This I can kinda understand.In post 114, mastin2 wrote: The presence of Smurf, Hanasawa, and you, all make the wagon look worse. Smurf and Hanasawa both being scum candidates regardless of your alignment, and neither one having a particularly good reason to be on the wagon.
People tend to say this a lot about my catchup post whenever I replace in, and there's a lot of times that it's not true. What exactly is "convenient" about my reads, which were only made based on 4 pages of gameplay? How is it that I couldn't have come to those conclusions as town?In post 114, mastin2 wrote: You being (as previously mentioned) highly "convenient" in your reads on players, which is concerning as well.
I think I've mentioned before that I've gone back and forth on whether they're scum together. Just because they're both top scumreads does not necessarily mean that I think they are scum together.In post 114, mastin2 wrote: By the way. 103 makes it so that Marquis and phok, your top two scum candidates, cannot be scum together. "...Why?"
You really think that scum, with what could very well be their dieing breath, is going to screw their scumbuddy over by defending them very weakly in a very desperate tone of voice? HECK no. That was as legitimate as it comes. Argue wifom all you like; that. was. not. scum. wifom. It was either town legitimacy (in which case, Marquis is town), or scum legitimacy (in which case, Phok is town), but in either case, is legitimate.
"Why would scum-Marquis make a legitimate statement like that?"
As a last-ditch effort to appear pro-town. To cast wifom onto the slot and make people think they're scumbuddies, because on the surface, scum-defending-a-player makes said player look bad when you don't bother to analyze the reasonswhythey were; circumstances are everything. As something Marquis would say regardless of alignment. Take your pick. There's any number of reasons why Marquis would do it as scum, and dang-good reasons Marquis would do it as town, but absolutely no reasons why a scum-Marquis would defend a scum-Phok.
Why shouldn't they claim? If a BP claims, they're essentially an unkillable townie, since scum would have to waste shots on them 2 nights in order to kill them. Do you know how powerful that is? If used correctly, it essentially ensures town the game. Plus, it is the only role that would also confirm your claim, essentially making you confirmed town as well. Heck, at that point, scum might as well throw their hands up in the air and say, "I give up."In post 129, Marquis wrote: and if bp exists it shouldn't claim unless in danger of a lynch kk?
The fact that he brought up his own meta means that his meta is not useful as a defense. Also, lying as town is never a good move, and I can think of very few times that it would actually be helpful, and very few people who could pull it off. Marquis is not one of them. Lying town hurts the town more than helps it.In post 134, Hanasawa wrote:Bulb, what do you think about Marquis's lying PR meta that he brought up?
A claimed BP presents a WIFOM issue for scum, though. Do they shoot at the conf. townie (i.e. the BP) and waste their shot, or do they try to get a guaranteed kill in. Either way, it's advantageous for town, since it give us a conf. townie for at least 2 day phases, and it gives us more momentum than scum.In post 140, Marquis wrote: And I'd personally prefer for scum to miss a kill on any bp
Okay, let's try this again. What about 103 made you think town rather than scum?In post 143, mastin2 wrote:How exactly can I explain something seeming really legitimate? It just is. There's no quantifiable way of measuring legitimacy.In post 115, Bulbazak wrote:Explain this one to me, because I'm not seeing it.In post 114, mastin2 wrote:103 weakens it even further, because it soundsreally,.reallylegitimate
Currently I'm leaning Smurf.In post 143, mastin2 wrote:So who's the other scum, then?Just because they're both top scumreads does not necessarily mean that I think they are scum together.
I don't know. Get back to me tomorrow after a flip.In post 143, mastin2 wrote: If not a Phok-Marquis team, what do you see?
Even when they originally claimed VT?In post 143, mastin2 wrote: Anywaaaaaay. I have a policy. It's called "don't lynch claimed PRs on day one, no matter how scummy they may seem".
At least once.In post 143, mastin2 wrote: I'm reasonably certain Marquis is lying, yes.
Here.In post 144, hodge wrote:So with Hanasawa and Marquis at L-2 each where do we go?
So why is it okay for Marquis to not want to no lynch, but when I don't want to no lynch, I'm scummy?In post 166, hodge wrote: I'm more looking at Bulba tbh as it was 2 pretty quick votes together and bulba in post 149 feels as though they are pressuring town into a lynch. Atm I believe the other scum could have been 1 of the other voters and i'm leaning on hana being the partner as I think Marquis may have voted to lynch purely so we didn't no lynch on day 1.
I'm not even sure what this means.In post 171, Hanasawa wrote: Did you just pull an anorway or did you just give up, Bulb?
I did think Hana was town, and Phok was my preferred lynch. However, that close to deadline I just wanted people to vote one or the other so that we wouldn't no lynch. And even though I wouldn't like it, a Hana flip would tell us just as much as a Phok flip.In post 172, hodge wrote: You say choose a side between Phok and Hana but then say Hana is town? Should you have just not asked people to vote Phok at the time if you did believe Hana to be town?
I said that I didn't want to no lynch. Read my posts instead of trying to take everything I say out of context and paint me as scummy. A no lynch is the sign of a lazy or apathetic town, and those lose games. We needed a lynch, or more specifically a flip, to give us information to work off of.In post 173, hodge wrote:Sorry can you show me a post where you said you didn't want to lynch? If you have I have missed it in a quick skim read. Marquis wasn't for a no lynch as shown in 161 but appeared to be forced into a vote last minute to ensure we got a lynch.In post 170, Bulbazak wrote:So why is it okay for Marquis to not want to no lynch, but when I don't want to no lynch, I'm scummy?In post 166, hodge wrote: I'm more looking at Bulba tbh as it was 2 pretty quick votes together and bulba in post 149 feels as though they are pressuring town into a lynch. Atm I believe the other scum could have been 1 of the other voters and i'm leaning on hana being the partner as I think Marquis may have voted to lynch purely so we didn't no lynch on day 1.
Vote Smurf Ninja Fan
Not sure who his partner is, but this is scum.
You then say if we no lynch Hana and Smurf would have to answer to you? If you agreed with a potential no lynch as you said why would people have to answer to you if they decided to no lynch?In post 149, Bulbazak wrote:15 minutes guys. Tick tock. Tick tock. If we no lynch, Hana and Smurf will have to answer to me.
In post 173, hodge wrote: Also can I ask why you are so focused on Smurf? You have voted without giving much reason and just exclaiming this is scum. If you consider Phok's choices Smurf was null at least and going on town.
In post 82, Bulbazak wrote:Smurf Ninja Fan: He's said several things, such as the lurking comment, that would cause an immediate scum ping. However, I can't see scum being that blatant. He's most likely town, and I wouldn't be surprised if scum push for his mislynch at some point in this game.
In post 102, Bulbazak wrote:Because while I think scum wouldn't be that blatant, I can't discount it. Otherwise, I'd be falling into the Too Scummy to be Scum fallacy. This is a Newbie game, which means that we're going to see a lot of things that are outside the range of a normal game on this site, simply because new players are playing. A lot of things that would be considered scummy in other sections of the site are simply newb tells here and say nothing about alignment. People tend to get newbiness confused with scumminess all the time, but at the same time, I've seen instances of incredibly transparent scum, that again, was the cause of said player's newbiness. Therefore, I have no reason of knowing if Smurf's remarks thus far are coming from scummy looking town or obv. scum. I'd rather keep him in the null category until I see enough from his play to satisfy me either way.In post 91, mastin2 wrote: Why is Smurf listed as null, when everything you're listing places him as at least null-town if not town?
In post 117, Bulbazak wrote:Smurf just moved into Null/Scum.
In post 119, Bulbazak wrote:You went out of your way to make sure that Phok remained a scumspect regardless of Marquis's flip.
I no longer believe that Smurf is Too Scummy to be Scum, but rather blatantly obvious scum.In post 149, Bulbazak wrote:15 minutes guys. Tick tock. Tick tock. If we no lynch, Hana and Smurf will have to answer to me.
Just because you thought Phok was town doesn't mean anyone else did. I know I didn't. Also, we were seriously close to the deadline and there was no consensus. Of course I'm going to push for a lynch.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: -Bulbazak is incredibly suspicious for the push on phok. I told you that phok was town and I think I laid out some fairly-decent reasons as to why, and yet, he managed to push that wagon through.
How does Hana being the other wagon close to deadline mean anything? All it meant was that people suspected her. You're stretching for this point, Mastin.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: -The alternative wagon at the time was Hanasawa. This, to me, is beginning to point to a Bulbazak-Hanasawa team.
I've proven that I can lose my scumpartner early in a Newbie game and still win. Honestly, if I was scum, that wouldn't bother me.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: In a game like this, you need your scumbuddy alive.
Only when it comes to who I keep around in Lylo. If you hand town an easy lynch, they'll be suspicious of it. If it's harder for them, they're more likely to see it as genuine.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: Bulbazak, however, is a type of player who can and has exploited the too-obvious-to-be-true argument as scum.
Town should never lie.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: But when there's two scum alive, it's actually optimal play to lie in the exact manner Marquis did. If I had the jailkeeper role and was outted, I would have done the EXACT thing Marquis did.
While I like ballsy moves, no killing is not one of them. If I have a kill, I'm going to use it.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: If it were to be true, it'd point to a SE with a fondness for pulling ballsy moves. (Like Bulbazak.)
Really now. This is the first I've heard of my universal scumminess.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: Bulbazak was not a town player, yesterday.
Nope. That was you.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: he spearheaded the Marquis attempted mislynch
Town was going to No Lynch. Of course I pushed the Phok lynch hard!In post 176, mastin2 wrote: AND the successful Phok mislynch.
Only newbie scum target the IC n1. However, we had a PR claim. Scum should have been targeting that.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: Objectively speaking, I was not seen by scum by anyone at the end of yesterday, painting me as a more probable target.
I disagree with that, but then again, I'm vain. I don't mind living a bit longer.In post 176, mastin2 wrote: In essence, there is no scum reason for a kill on Bulbazak.
Who did you JK?In post 181, Karnage wrote:Alright, so last week I was very busy in RL and not sleeping much so somehow I read marquis' claim as BP instead of JK. The thing is I am the jailkeeper so marquis is scum. I realized my mistake just before the deadline so I figured it was best to keep quiet since I though there was a chance phok could be scum and I didn't think we would be able to swing the votes to marquis quickly enough to avoid a no lynch.
Today I was thinking I could ride things out and see if I could find his partner before coming forward since even if they knew I was the JK they would avoid killing me since once I flip he would be insta-lynched. But I don't think I'm a good enough player to pull it off and I worried about being believed at lylo.
I'm going to re-read but I'm leaning toward either mastin or marjam. I think today's action so far clears bulbazak as town.
VOTE: marquis
I'm leaning Hodge, simply because I didn't like his entrance into d2, and I got the same basic gut pings that I got near the beginning of the game. I stand by that Marquis's partner is competent and probably came up with the "JK Bulba" claim. Hodge, while being new to the site, strikes me as a competent player, and in many ways is a stronger player than Marquis.In post 233, mastin2 wrote:Who is scum if I'm not?
1.) The way you backed off the Marquis wagon after I entered and applied pressure of my ownIn post 233, mastin2 wrote: And why do you think that I am Marquis's scumbuddy?
I'm not trying to end the day early. I'm trying to prevent a no lynch when we have conf. scum. Mafiascum doesn't use plurality lynches in Newbie games, which means if deadline hits in the current game state, no lynch will occur. And given this town's track record thus far, I don't trust you guys to lynch scum right before the deadline on Monday.In post 249, hodge wrote: Really only scum would want the day to end too early as it deprives the town of info, providing all votes necessary happen.
Why?In post 262, Tamuz wrote:Because the vote is forced between JK claims and I think Karnage is the most likely to be scum between the two.
Yes there are. Mine for starters.In post 264, Tamuz wrote:Lets not get ahead of ourselves, there are questions to be answered.
Probably, but I'd still like my question answered. Why is Karnage more likely to be scum over Marquis?In post 269, Tamuz wrote:I answered a question of yours, all you've done is disparage me. I think you need to go to bed.
I'm not. I'm preventing the asking of pointless questions. We've already allowed for a BP claim, and there was none, which means that if there is a BP left, it's you. So unless you're claiming BP, which I doubt, then there is no reason to be asking such usless questions. In fact, that's essentially all you've done since replacing in. How about adding something of value to the discussion? Perhaps you can bus your buddy. That always helps.In post 279, Tamuz wrote:Why are you trying to shut down information, Bulbazak?
beneficial at this stage in the game? Answer: It's not! Tamuz tried not engaging in the game for the longest time. He threw out a Karnage scumread which he refused to substantiate, even after I pressed him multiple times. His final reasoning for said scumread essentially boils down to "Nobody has any reasons for Marquis being scum.", which is false, while he simultaneously doesn't give adequate reasons for Karnage to be scum.In post 257, Tamuz wrote:Hodge, who are scum?
Anorway. If you were a cop, who would you investigate tonight?
Karnage. If you were a doctor who would you protect tonight?
Tell me Mastin, how does this question:In post 279, Tamuz wrote:Why are you trying to shut down information, Bulbazak?
help at all, especially given that there has not been a BP claim so far? The only way that'd make sense is if Tamuz is the BP, which if he was, he'd know there was no reason to ask such a question. Of course the mod is not going to tell the BP they got shot! That's the sort of question you ask to make yourself appear town. But let's say for the sake of argument that Tamuz is the BP, there would still be no reason to ask such a question, as Marjam was not going to be the NK in the first place. Why? Because he was absent, a lot of people were suspicious of him, and he would have made a great mislynch. So, again, no reason to ask. What Tamuz has asked so far are useless questions, which means that it's impossible to stifle information concerning them. Meanwhile, he's avoided answering important questions for as long as he possibly could. I'm not the one trying to shut down information here. He is.
Then how about you, I don't know, don't post anything until after you catch up? This is not a large game. You can catch up in less than a day.In post 290, Tamuz wrote:Maybe its throwing something up while I read?Bulbazak wrote:beneficial at this stage in the game? Answer: It's not! Tamuz tried not engaging in the game for the longest time.
I can't read a game in 10 minutes you know.
I would have killed Karnage last night.In post 336, Tamuz wrote:But what if you were scum?
Because I'm not stupid enough not to use a kill. In your scenario, we have a confirmed town either way. Why not get rid of the conf. town who could make my life miserable in future nights? This almost sounds like you think conf. town Mastin would be able to somehow get scum-me lynched. Most likely, the result would be a Hodge lynch, so I'm not seeing where you're coming from. The best move for scum last night would have been to lynch Karnage. Period.In post 341, Tamuz wrote:Why?
That leaves mastin alive, conf town and he's a strong player who is certain I'm town.
Come on. Even you can't be this dense. I obviously meant NK.In post 343, Tamuz wrote:First... how does Karnage get lynched last night? I really want to be right about hodge, but your foot is way past your mouth and in your stomache.
Whoever Karnage JK'd would still be a conf. townie.In post 343, Tamuz wrote: Nice framing q no-kill as stupid. I think it can be a well measured move here. If a scum doesn't think Karnage targets them, Karnage spearheads the kill on mastin, then Karnage dies that night.
I count 0 confirmed townies after that day.
I think someone's been drinking the Kool-Aid.In post 343, Tamuz wrote: Will conf. town mastin get scum you lynched? Maybe scum you will get scum you lynched?
What information would I gain? That Karnage is the JK? We already knew that. There is no adequate reason to try to kill someone that the JK has already announced is going to be JK'd. That's horribly bad play, and I can't believe you, as an IC, are suggesting it.In post 348, mastin2 wrote: You claim you wouldn't waste your nightkill by choosing no-kill. But if you targeted me, you wouldn't be lying with your claim. Youwouldn'tbe wasting the nightkill. You'd be gathering valuable info and testing the waters for tomorrow. If things played out in the most probable way, you'd end up having effectively no-killed and put me on the chopping block. But you'd have also gained info about Karnage which no-killing would have lost you. So a scum-you WOULD nightkill me.
I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.In post 349, mastin2 wrote:As scum, I display confirmation bias