Newbie 1429 - N is for Newbie (game over)

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:51 am

Vote: Karnage

not obvious enough. explain.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #8 (isolation #1) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:10 am

You're supposedly a "Mafia Scum", but I don't see you voting.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #9 (isolation #2) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:10 am

self-voting*

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #14 (isolation #3) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:34 am

In post 10, Karnage wrote:
In post 8, Nachomamma8 wrote:You're supposedly a "Mafia Scum", but I don't see you voting.
I'm town so why would I self vote?

To avoid hypocrisy.

In post 13, Bulbazak wrote:
Vote Windblown

For wagoning.

Also, I'm one of your 3 SEs in this game. If you have any questions about gameplay or game theory, feel free to ask. The worst I could do is shove the question on Nacho.

Is there a reason you aren't sheeping me onto Karnage?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #17 (isolation #4) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:55 am

Vote: Yiley

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #28 (isolation #5) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:22 pm

I like windblown and Yiley! I don't like caled.

Vote: caledfwitch

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #38 (isolation #6) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:29 am

In post 29, Windblown wrote:What do(n't) you like about the people you mentioned? Is this game-relevant stuff or just "oh hey you look cool, oh you're not" ?

I like that you took a quick, hard position on Yiley and didn't need anyone to forcefeed it to you. You also got bonus points for being the first to say "no, overreacting in the way that he is isn't really that scummy" when scum occasionally get too jumpy and attack that sort of thing early.

Early townread on Yiley is pretty much based on mindset; it's not every day you see mafia who is "sorry" for being voted and asking for advice on how to play better in thread.

I don't like caledfwitch because she came into thread and saw all this happening and didn't have anything to say to it; I also hoped that I'd catch her while she was still online so that we could have a discussion.

For a bonus, I also am scumreading Beginner (more so now than before) because of his reaction to Yiley freaking out over his vote; the "don't worry about it" mindset made it seem like he didn't want a big reaction from his vote and was trying to calm Yiley down so he didn't become a center of attention. Scumbag had a similar response to negative attention for his self-vote, but no one likes negative attention so I didn't really find that to be a big deal.

Vote: Beginner

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #39 (isolation #7) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:31 am

Yiley, I believe you are looking for this article.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #41 (isolation #8) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:22 am

What do you think of my #38?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #43 (isolation #9) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:56 am

So is it correct to say you're still voting Beginner because of the stuff I pointed out?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #45 (isolation #10) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:58 am

What do you think of Bulbazak?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #47 (isolation #11) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:02 am

Why did you think the self-vote was suspicious?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #65 (isolation #12) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:03 am

In post 48, Yiley wrote:Um why would you self vote? That is a dumb move and people want to know why you do it.
So natruly if someone selfvotes Your going to question them and find out why.

It doesn't necessarily make sense, but that doesn't mean that it's scummy. Why is it scummy?

In post 49, Beginner wrote:Right now, I am leaning scum on Nacho more than any other player right now. I can see him leading a wagon on my lynch (my being a newer player on mafiascum). It could easily be done.

You got a little distracted with theory and didn't actually explain why I was scum. It is possible that I am scum starting discussion and trying to look protown, but why is it probable?

In post 54, Windblown wrote:I don’t like how Yiley is just taking Nacho’s questions and developing them into his own point on Yiley when I’m pretty sure his vote on Beginner was just RVS.

I didn't like that either.

Beginner's most recent posts look town, so back to caled.

Unvote, Vote: caledfwitch

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #66 (isolation #13) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:04 am

In post 62, Karnage wrote:How did you know he was looking for that?

Also, you never answered my question about why you voted Yiley.

He seemed pretty confused why beginner was saying that he sucked.
I voted Yiley to make him the biggest bandwagon.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #67 (isolation #14) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:05 am

It was framed in a way to make my vote look like something more than RVS whereas my first vote wasn't.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #70 (isolation #15) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:10 am

In post 68, Beginner wrote:I was also looking to spike a response from him. Think of it as a RFOSS (Random Finger of Suspicion Stage). I personally find it much more productive than the RVS (Random Voting Stage).

These two stages aren't different.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #90 (isolation #16) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:15 pm

In post 88, Yiley wrote:Never done a. Read list before so it probably sucks and ill admit that

Next step is reasoning.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #122 (isolation #17) » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:20 pm

if i got prodded

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #123 (isolation #18) » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:22 pm

Sorry! I've been playing a lot of Skype Mafia lately. I will be back in a moment I promise.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #162 (isolation #19) » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:30 am

In post 136, Beginner wrote:If you don't think Bulba is scum by now, there is something seriously wrong with your scum-catching mechanism.

Bulba is scum for bad logic, then?

In post 153, scumbag101 wrote:All I can see in this content is just WIFOM and non-serious talk, especially for the fact how caled is already at L-2 for the mere reasoning of "not contributing enough" and "arbitrary indiscretion."

What did you like better in thread?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #211 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:03 am

In post 170, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 165, Beginner wrote:
In post 162, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 136, Beginner wrote:If you don't think Bulba is scum by now, there is something seriously wrong with your scum-catching mechanism.
Bulba is scum for bad logic, then?
Yup, pretty much.
- Bad reasoning/logic is usually indicative of it being contrived/faked. Scum want people lynched. Reasoning is barely relevant
Bulba contrives bad/false logic to push other players' lynches.
Only scum try to get people lynched with fake/contrived reasoning since they already know who real scum are.
Bulba = scum.
It's interesting that you ignored my most recent post. I asked you several questions in there too.

Unvote

Nacho, explain the Caled case.

Why did you unvote here?

In post 181, GuyInFreezer wrote:NACHO

hey babe, what's going on?

In post 201, GuyInFreezer wrote:- Nacho's actually in "Stop being a lazy-ass and get over here."

you can see why i'm being a lazy ass right

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #214 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:21 am

In post 82, caledfwitch wrote:I'm interested in the reasoning for three votes on me. I've only posted once to explain the random voting stage to a new player, and I simply haven't had time to keep my eye on the thread for a long period of time. You will see some impressions from me in a bit.

Where are the impressions, caled? And why have you been ignoring me since I put my vote down on you and parked the hell out of it?

In post 137, caledfwitch wrote:Beginner, if you're looking to get me today and Yliey tomorrow where's your vote??? On Bulba!! Practice what you preach

Why did you still think Beginner was town even though he thought you/Yiley was the scumteam and was voting Bulbazak?

In post 164, caledfwitch wrote:On being nervous: I think that a townie wouldn't be too worried about scum claims as they should find evidence to prove themselves innocent / others guilty in time.

So is that why you're ignoring the people voting you, or...?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #215 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:28 am

Yiley, what's your new scum list?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #219 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:54 am

Why beginner? Why gif? You wouldn't want to break his heart, would you?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #221 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:52 am

Well you have to have some reasoning for putting those two as scumreads unless you're doing that just to appease us and that wouldn't be a good sign.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #223 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:57 am

In post 222, Beginner wrote:@nacho: calling Caled and Yiley scum was sheer sarcasm made to highlight the absurdity of Bulba's case..

I recognized that. Caled didn't.

In post 222, Beginner wrote:I will not let this day end without a Bulba lynch, just putting that out there right now.

You'll have to convince a majority to go along with you, then.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #226 (isolation #26) » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:28 am

Because there are only two scum.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #260 (isolation #27) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:45 am

In post 233, GuyInFreezer wrote:Nacho, talk to me about Karnage.

I could vote him and he'd probably flip scum. Do you want me too talk more on this subject, or less? Is there a reason why we can't kill caled first?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #278 (isolation #28) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:56 pm

In post 262, Yiley wrote:I might see karnage scum. Maybe.
But anyhow I'm now for some reason not feeling that beginner is scum as much as I was.

i didn't even know why you found him scum in the first place
hell, i thought you didn't know why you found him scum in the first place
did you figure it out?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #279 (isolation #29) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:00 pm

Nacho's problems with Karnage:

In post 10, Karnage wrote:
In post 8, Nachomamma8 wrote:You're supposedly a "Mafia Scum", but I don't see you voting.
I'm town so why would I self vote?

In post 62, Karnage wrote:
In post 39, Nachomamma8 wrote:Yiley, I believe you are looking for this article.
How did you know he was looking for that?

In post 62, Karnage wrote:I have to agree with you here. Nacho is steering Yiley's line of thinking. My default read on nacho always seems to be scum and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a nacho/yiley scum-team.

In post 205, Karnage wrote:Yes, I've heard of read lists and that wasn't one. Having 6 people to pressure casts such a wide net that it makes you seem non-committal.
Who are the 2 people you aren't willing to pressure?

mmmmmmmmm

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #282 (isolation #30) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:07 pm

Nacho's problems with Bulbazak:

In post 80, Bulbazak wrote:The evolution of scum nervousness. Look how much he's freaking out over the course of a couple of hours. He's trying to figure out what he did wrong. That type of self-consciousness is more indicative of scum than it is of town. He even went as far as to try to discredit my vote with the "surety" comment. Beginner is scum. The vote stays.

In post 119, Bulbazak wrote:Yiley is low hanging fruit, and most likely town, and I find the current push against him opportunistic to say the least.

In post 119, Bulbazak wrote:When you are constantly asking about somebody's motivations in a very limited time frame and show signs of neuroticism concerning said vote or reasoning, I'd say you're very nervous. And it's this possibility vs. probability crap that you're spewing that makes me think you're scum. It's a smokescreen, as this play philosophy that you spout is absolutely meaningless. It mainly serves as a way to discredit anybody voting for you or pushing you as scum, because you can always say "That's just a possibility." much like someone can say, "That's just your opinion.". It may or may not be true, but it still doesn't mean that argument (possibility/opinion) is good reasoning. And yes, this is a game of logic and reasoning (among other things), and while probabilities may play a role in it, they don't to the degree you're claiming they do. If you want to counter an argument, do so directly.
Otherwise, you are just trying to avoid the accusation that's been leveled at you, and that's scummy.

In post 161, Bulbazak wrote:Yiley appears to be one of those. His actions are more in line with newb tells, rather than scum tells. He may be apologetic, but he also shows an ignorance of the game that cannot be faked.

In post 161, Bulbazak wrote:I don't like be discredited.

In post 170, Bulbazak wrote:Nacho, explain the Caled case.

In post 253, Bulbazak wrote:No, Karnage only has 2 scumreads, 1 townread, and the rest are null. That is not the same as having 1 townread and 7 scumreads of various strengths. Tbh, I don't find Karnage's readslist to be scummy at all, since it's kinda understandable to have that many nulls this early in the game.

In post 275, Bulbazak wrote:Okay, so if you think Caled is scum, why aren't you voting him?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #283 (isolation #31) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:08 pm

In post 281, Yiley wrote:
In post 278, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 262, Yiley wrote:I might see karnage scum. Maybe.
But anyhow I'm now for some reason not feeling that beginner is scum as much as I was.
i didn't even know why you found him scum in the first place
hell, i thought you didn't know why you found him scum in the first place
did you figure it out?
I did but then when I typed it out it looked really stupid

type it out anyways.
if you say stupid things with enough confidence, sometimes people believe you.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #284 (isolation #32) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:10 pm

In post 280, fferyllt wrote:Second post 62 is something that doesn't fit my town-Karnage model at all. Not the most robust model, but yeah.

If Karnage was a seller in an open air market trying to sell me a jacket that I really really wanted, I don't think I'd buy it.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #287 (isolation #33) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:20 pm

In post 285, Bulbazak wrote:@Nacho: Did you have a point, or are you just experimenting with how many smilies you can stuff in a post?

There were points. I'm sure ffery and GiF caught onto them!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #288 (isolation #34) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:21 pm

In post 286, Yiley wrote:
In post 283, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 281, Yiley wrote:
In post 278, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 262, Yiley wrote:I might see karnage scum. Maybe.
But anyhow I'm now for some reason not feeling that beginner is scum as much as I was.
i didn't even know why you found him scum in the first place
hell, i thought you didn't know why you found him scum in the first place
did you figure it out?
I did but then when I typed it out it looked really stupid
type it out anyways.
if you say stupid things with enough confidence, sometimes people believe you.
If I think it's stupid I'm pretty sure very one can see that it is stupid.

yiley if i can make a case out of quotes and smiley faces you can make a real people case
hit me.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #293 (isolation #35) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:18 am

so we can understand where you're coming from on him?
you could also make a case on someone you suspect now or something

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #304 (isolation #36) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:42 am

In post 302, Windblown wrote:Although two people in this game might be seeing what you are doing with a bunch of smilies it's not exactly the best method to display a case if some of us don't know what you exactly mean by those.

It's the perfect sort of thing if a couple of people are having trouble producing content and I'm waiting to see what they come up with on their own, though.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #305 (isolation #37) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:42 am

AKA Yiley, come talk to me!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #307 (isolation #38) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:03 am

Who do you think is scum?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #317 (isolation #39) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:26 am

In post 315, Bulbazak wrote:{GiF, Nacho, Ffery}

Why?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #333 (isolation #40) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:32 pm

V/LA until Tuesday

Hopefully gonna be back monday but you never know.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #334 (isolation #41) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:33 pm

How was your day ffery? My day was good. I went to a concert with my girlfriend and we had a very splendid time. I want the person I am voting to die.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #428 (isolation #42) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:51 pm

In post 342, Beginner wrote:reads/responses from nacho.

Ffery, Bert, Windblown, you town
yiley, bulba, karnage: ???
caled scum.
bulbazak is almost a townread but he's just not good enough
yiley i can't get a handle on worth a damn but i'm leaning towards death for him

In post 354, Windblown wrote:Or can I get a fairly clear picture just from in-game?

You can get a pretty clear picture from in-game. Unfortunately, those two were pretty obsessed with meta, so...

In post 361, Karnage wrote:My gut tells me not to trust beginner. He switches his vote to other players but still seems focused on bulba.

I like the natural paranoia, especially on a universal townread. Town lean!

In post 362, Yiley wrote:But currently I don't know anything except I'm pretty sure wind is town.

Why? Your random declarations confuse the shit out of me; it's like you are occasionally possessed by spirits from another world and gain a tiny bit of clarity into something, but can never explain it. You also seem to repeat your declarations often. Why?

In post 387, caledfwitch wrote:Putting it in words here, it would probably help the town the most right now if I was lynched today

Why is that? Are you a Mafia Roleblocker?

In post 404, Bert wrote:Nacho, you've been getting away scratch-free. I don't like that. Please come reach out to Pappa. <3

Where's your vote?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #429 (isolation #43) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:51 pm

Vote: Yiley

I'm pulling out a surprise push on Yiley.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #442 (isolation #44) » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:41 am

In post 431, Yiley wrote:Oh and if you want to kill me go ahead. I'm not very good so it will probably increase your chances of winning if I am gone.

Unless you're mafia, this isn't the case.

In post 435, Bulbazak wrote:Nacho, why don't you want a Caled lynch anymore if you're so sure he's scum?

You made an assumption here.

In post 436, fferyllt wrote:
In post 428, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 387, caledfwitch wrote:Putting it in words here, it would probably help the town the most right now if I was lynched today
Why is that? Are you a Mafia Roleblocker?
Is there a reason you think scum-caled would stick to a truthful statement here?

I don't think scum-caled would stick to a truthful statement, no.

In post 437, Karnage wrote:Isn't this a little close to the deadline to start a new push?

Makes me wonder if you are doing this to distract town away from caled.

It is close to deadline to start a new push, but it surprises me that you think my plan today was to bus my partner for the entire day and then suddenly I get afraid he'll actually be lynched so I launch a giant campaign to save him last minute...

In post 438, Bert wrote:How confident are you about Yiley?

Not that confident.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #448 (isolation #45) » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:51 am

In post 444, Bert wrote:EBWOP: you're being strange and avoiding interacting with us like I expect you to as town

I've been right here the entire time.

In post 445, fferyllt wrote:Yeah, I know. That was an odd response to my question about caled, but maybe my own thought process wasn't that obvious.

One of us doesn't know what the other is doing, and I think the one left behind might be me.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #451 (isolation #46) » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:12 pm

I'll be around for three hours. I'm contemplating hammering now.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #459 (isolation #47) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 pm

Vote: Yiley

I want to start here.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #461 (isolation #48) » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:02 am

Who are you suspicious of after yesterday?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #519 (isolation #49) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:13 pm

Please hold off on a hammer until I have my full return.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #529 (isolation #50) » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:15 pm

In post 462, Bert wrote:<3 D2 with a scummy Nacho is a cruel world to live in

Talk to me. Why am I scummy? Please don't say "scummy because not here".

In post 467, Beginner wrote:I saw no reason at all for you to not read Caled scum like the rest of us did. It looks as if you knew Caled was going to flip scum prior to the flip actually occurring.

I wavered on caled-scum too; why not question me for it?

In post 469, Bert wrote:You started at the end of yesterday on Yiley. What is up with that, coming into the day with a VOTE and that's about it dude WHAT

Busy.

In post 469, Bert wrote:See Nacho, that's what I don't get, I expect you to be able to read someone like Yiley pretty quickly and develop a pretty beautiful read, what gives

I can't read nothingness. The decision is whether he is this clueless or faking it and I lean towards faking it. What do you think? Does he feel like you did when you had no direction and had no idea what to do?

In post 481, Bert wrote:your reactions about how he might not be a true newb are SO paranoid

He could be true newb and pulling this play off as scum, no?

In post 488, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 483, Bert wrote: I still think the team is in <Nacho, Bulb, Karnage, Windblown>
So when I do this, I'm scum, but when you do it, it's okay? Walk me through this one here.

Vote Nachomamma8

Why were you voting me here?

In post 497, Yiley wrote:Like 3 or 4

Which ones did you read?

In post 498, Bulbazak wrote:I see.

Unvote

Vote Yiley

I don't understand why you voted so quickly here, either.

In post 506, Bert wrote:NACHO come back here. Your replies to me about what you're doing have been curt, to say the least. I want more and would like to see your thought process too please in detail

My thought process has been decently clear this game, I think. What do you want me to clarify?

In post 523, Bert wrote:You're here, why are you neglecting us

I've been around, but I've been busy as demonstrated by me not posting so often.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #541 (isolation #51) » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:16 pm

In post 534, Yiley wrote:
@mod I will be v/la this weekend until Monday

Also how do I set that thing?

In post 536, Windblown wrote:@Nacho - when did you start thinking he is probably faking being clueless?

Caled's #387 caused me to reanalyze my townreads because it seemed an odd move for scum close to deadline, so I wanted to find a different direction. Yiley came up, and I started to doubt that he would be so completely without direction in this game. I wouldn't even say I feel strongly about him being scum or anything, but I don't want him to get to day 3 or even day 4 with this complete air of cluelessness.\

In post 537, Bert wrote:Yes. He's keeping his calm way better than I did in the face of pressure.

Is that a good thing?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #542 (isolation #52) » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:18 pm

In post 530, Bulbazak wrote:PoE mostly. You were the only one I didn't have a good read on, and you were just not playing as I'd expect town Nacho to.

Who was my PoE partner and why did you start out voting me instead of him?

In post 530, Bulbazak wrote:I had just got done asking Yiley how many games he had read before playing his first game. He said "3 or 4". Do you know how many games I read before playing my first game of Mafia? 2, and I did pretty well in that first game (Keep in mind that my first game on-site was actually my third game in total.). I just couldn't believe that Yiley could actually be that clueless after having digested 3-4 full games of Mafia. He should have had a good baseline for how to play, yet he was acting as if that wasn't the case. I called bull crap and voted him.

Everyone starts from a different level. Why would you expect Yiley to play as well as you did when you first started out?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #547 (isolation #53) » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:18 am

In post 543, Bulbazak wrote:I would expect him to at least try and not be useless.

I would expect this regardless of how many games he read, wouldn't you?

In post 546, Bert wrote:Define "good thing." Did you think me breaking down in my first few games was a "good thing?" Because my breaking down was a huge distraction for town, if anything. Plus, the emotion I would put forward would be hard to read.

Good thing - makes him more likely to be town.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #549 (isolation #54) » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:38 am

Then why was that piece of information the tipping point for you?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #550 (isolation #55) » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:38 am

^^that's pretty much the source of my confusion right now

The hop itself is fine; I understand your reasons because I share those same reasons. I just don't understand the timing.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #553 (isolation #56) » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:55 am

In post 552, Windblown wrote:Do you think some people are just not cut out for mafia regardless of how much info they've read? (@anyone)

My personal mafia theory is that everyone has a certain playstyle that evolves with time and usually get good when the find the style that works best for them. I want to thoroughly talk with Yiley and get inside his mind because either A) he genuinely has no idea what the fuck is going on and I'm doing my job as an IC poorly, or B) he's scum and faking it and I need to lynch the fuck out of him. I will be wroth if he dies without knowing why he's dying.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #556 (isolation #57) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:47 am

I would like to believe it's that option as well.
What games did you read?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #560 (isolation #58) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:23 am

I don't remember that, Bert.
And yes he's low-hanging fruit which is why I suspect Bulbazak for white knighting him at first and then starting to attack him. But I'm not sure that Yiley's town yet.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #562 (isolation #59) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:26 am

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #563 (isolation #60) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:27 am

You'll notice that I attacked you in that post and made a giant wallpost attacking you later. I haven't really attacked Yiley this game, but suddenly I feel a little better about him. Wanna vote Bulbazak with me?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #564 (isolation #61) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:27 am

Vote: Bulbazak

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #567 (isolation #62) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:04 am

Yiley, what do you think of Bulbazak?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #569 (isolation #63) » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:52 am

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #576 (isolation #64) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:01 am

In post 570, Bulbazak wrote:@Nacho: What's with the sudden 180 on Yiley? I don't see anything that makes me doubt my suspicions of him.

You and that awkward timing. I've felt niggling paranoia about Yiley all game because there's always the question of how experienced a new player is. We can guess that Yiley probably is new (he would be playing a more aggressive game otherwise), but I don't know if he can fake reads at all (and if he can't, why wouldn't he?). If he really really has no idea at all, then I would pretty much expect this play to look the same regardless of alignment, and regardless of how many games he's read. What I didn't like about your switch was that it came at an unnatural time; you went from pretty consistently Yiley-town, Yiley-town to Yiley-scum at a point in the game where a wagon was stalling and it was getting to be about time for you-scum to attempt to pursue a mislynch, and based on something pretty much arbitrary (in my opinion).

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #577 (isolation #65) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:02 am

In post 573, Mr Me wrote:Hey everyone. Give me some time to read up. Anybody want to summarize things for me?

UNVOTE:

Summaries usually aren't very effective.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #584 (isolation #66) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:30 am

In post 578, Bert wrote:Why aren't summaries effective?

different things stand out to different people
getting a good sense of the game only really comes from reading through it yourself

In post 579, Mr Me wrote:Caught up.

what are you reads?

In post 580, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 579, Mr Me wrote: @Bulb: Do you honestly believe Yiley is scum? Or do you think he's just being less than useful and therefore needs rope?
Either Yiley or Nacho is. I'm going with Yiley. I don't think he's as clueless as he's making himself out to be.

no response to my latest post?

In post 582, Windblown wrote:gotta make a note to myself to reread Bulba's take on Yiley I guess

let me give you a highlight reel of that one

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #585 (isolation #67) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:40 am

In post 23, Bulbazak wrote:Yiley, the problem here is that you are coming off as extremely apologetic and survivalistic, which can be seen as scum attributes. Scum tend to be self conscious and want to not be lynched. While this can also be true of town, it is more extreme with scum, as they are fewer in number. Town tends to not care as much for the most part, at least not enough to start panicking when there are only 2 votes on them.

Personally, I'm not sure whether to take you doing it as a scum tell or a newb tell.

no idea

In post 119, Bulbazak wrote:Yiley joined the forum a couple days before this game started. I think it's safe to say that he's a total newbie and is learning what is expected in this game. Frankly, I'm more suspicious of the players who are taking obv. Newbie actions and stretching them into an illusionary scum case. Yiley is low hanging fruit, and most likely town, and I find the current push against him opportunistic to say the least.

so town everyone attacking him is scum

In post 161, Bulbazak wrote:Not everyone who is new to the forum has experience on another site. Some have no experience with Mafia whatsoever. Yiley appears to be one of those. His actions are more in line with newb tells, rather than scum tells. He may be apologetic, but he also shows an ignorance of the game that cannot be faked. However, he also displays the will to learn how to play the game, and that kind of genuine play comes across and gives me a town read. He's not being fake at all, but his inexperience with the game makes him low hanging fruit, which scum often can't resist.

"cannot be faked" is the good part here

In post 178, Bulbazak wrote:I've been playing enough to spot genuine newb play from fake newb play. But, okay, let's play it your way. What about Yiley's play seems actually scummy or not genuine?

here he gets offended when someone thinks yiley could possibly be faking

In post 319, Bulbazak wrote:Because I have town reads on Karnage, Yiley, Beginner, and Wind, I'm still cautious about GiF due to Scumbag, and you and Ffery are difficult for me to read.

whoop whoop whoop
i also don't understand karnage townread here.

In post 364, Bulbazak wrote:Scumbag was very quick to please town, which was shown by his unvote, and unlike Yiley, he actually showed that he had knowledge on how the game was played. His focus was not on scumhunting, but on going after easy targets, such as Yiley.

he uses yiley as an example of what townies do

In post 498, Bulbazak wrote:I see.

Unvote

Vote Yiley

but then yiley reads three games before this game and he's scum

In post 518, Bulbazak wrote:Yiley is at L-1. I expect to see intent to hammer and adequate time given for a claim and final reads. If anybody quickhammers, they are on the short list for tomorrow's lynch.

still scum

In post 551, Bulbazak wrote:It showed that I was wrong in assuming that Yiley didn't have any working knowledge of Mafia whatsoever.

still scum

In post 570, Bulbazak wrote:I don't see anything that makes me doubt my suspicions of him.

strong statement when he's been calling Yiley town all game

I can't see a thought process like that coming from any townie ever. I can understand paranoia, read flips, doubts, all that good stuff. I can understand reading someone as town, having a strong scumread flip town, then reconsidering old townreads. I can't understand this trend of yileytownyileytownyileytownyileytownyileytownyileySCUMyileySCUMyileySCUM, and I sure as hell can't see why it was set off because Yiley read three games before he played here; it's not like reading a game gives you magical knowledge of how to play, just as watching football doesn't teach you how to play.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #587 (isolation #68) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:37 am

That makes sense.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #592 (isolation #69) » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:45 pm

In post 589, Yiley wrote:Ok so I am here and stuffs and if by "coasting" you mean I'm not devoting my full attention then no I'm not. I got a whole bunch of homework and quizzes and exams and stuff but I'm trying. I have been seeing a lot of radical 180s here. Is that normal? That is mainly a question for ic person

Sometimes 180s are normal, usually they aren't. What did you think of them?

In post 589, Yiley wrote:Ok so I am here and stuffs and if by "coasting" you mean I'm not devoting my full attention then no I'm not. I got a whole bunch of homework and quizzes and exams and stuff but I'm trying. I have been seeing a lot of radical 180s here. Is that normal? That is mainly a question for ic person

What did you think of Bulbazak's switch?

Will respond to Bulbazak later.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #599 (isolation #70) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:50 pm

In post 595, Yiley wrote:I didn't like it as much as yours because it was against me but I can see how and why he would come to such a conclusion so I'm not gonna go after him for it.

So you don't think his assumption that you read games = you understand mafia is faked?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #600 (isolation #71) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:There were no questions, only a statement of how you've been reading my game.

It had a lot of you in it and normally you don't dismiss things about you.

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:Scumbag was a major scumread of mine at the time. I saw his vote for Yiley as going for the low hanging fruit.

The point is that he was town enough and an easy enough target where people going after him was a scumtell. Is that wrong?

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:I got evidence that it was faked. There is no ignorance.

Why do you think he would provide that evidence as scum?

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:How many times do the people who act like Yiley in the early game end up being town?

The real question is how many times do people act like Yiley in the early game? The answer is not often. Do you think that they usually end up being scum? That's what this question seems to imply.

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:He reminded me of the town Karnage I played with

Why?

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:No, I used Yiley as an example of Newbie ignorance.

Newbie town ignorance. Right?

In post 591, Bulbazak wrote:As soon as I found out about that foreknowledge, it changed my impression of Yiley's play, as it well should. And now you pull another midnight 180 for the second day in a row, based on reasons that should be apparent to you and on play that you have seen before as town? Bull crap. I don't buy this sort of ignorance from you Nacho.

The main point of that post was to show that you made a 180 based on foreknowledge that really wasn't that big of a deal, in my opinion, and that this switch was not a hesitant switch or a gradual one, but a switch from TOWN TOWN TOWN to SCUM SCUM SCUM.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #602 (isolation #72) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:59 pm

bert i need your constructive things now

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #617 (isolation #73) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:34 pm

In post 609, Tamuz wrote:Nacho, why should I hammer Bulb? You too Bert & MrMe.

You'll probably end up hammering bulb due to deadline compromise. You shouldn't hammer Bulb because while I don't feel particularly great about him, I want significant contribution from Bert before this day ends.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #618 (isolation #74) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:39 pm

In post 603, Yiley wrote:
In post 599, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 595, Yiley wrote:I didn't like it as much as yours because it was against me but I can see how and why he would come to such a conclusion so I'm not gonna go after him for it.
So you don't think his assumption that you read games = you understand mafia is faked?
Ok posing this before I read the page after. Kind of I think anyone else probably would have learned a little bit more then I did but unfortunately I'm not a visual learner

You read the page after and didn't comment about it at all?

In post 615, Bulbazak wrote:Why did you ask Yiley if you were being a bad IC if you didn't plan on rectifying it?

Sorry, what exactly did you expect me to do here? Channel some magical energy into Yiley that gives him the SPIRIT of mafiascum scumhunting? He doesn't seem to understand much, he's getting suspicions but having trouble solidifying them and it's not like I can go "OK Yiley here's how you play mafia". The only things that I can do with him is constantly interact with him and keep in the game while somehow figuring out if he's a bullshitter or if he's having this much trouble. Have a different suggestion? Implement it yourself.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #619 (isolation #75) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:44 pm

In post 608, Bulbazak wrote:who does a complete 180 on who he thinks is scum whenever he feels like it, who is playing way too dumb for my liking, who actually doesn't have a clear stance on who he thinks is town or scum.

TOWN:
Wind
Mr-Me

LEANING TOWN:
Bert (probably)
Yiley

LEANING SCUM:
Tamuz

SCUM:
Bulbazak

You should know about 180s this game considering you acknowledge your point of view has shifted constantly this game but somehow you don't understand my 180s? You're calling my play "dumb, forgettable". Why do you think my play is dumb? How the hell is my play forgettable when I'm 180'ing all over the place and making the major pushes of all of today (first on Yiley, and now on you)?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #623 (isolation #76) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 pm

In post 622, Tamuz wrote:If that's your best reason you should get off the wagon and find one you can give me a reason to hammer. Hell you even give me a reason I shouldn't hammer him when I didn't axe you for one.

I told you to read my posts. If you end up reading my posts, you'll see my main reason for wanting Bulbazak dead.
Did you read my posts?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #625 (isolation #77) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:30 pm

In post 621, Bert wrote:I'm sorry Nacho I haven't been here for you. What do you mean by "significant contribution from Bert," because I feel kinda useless in this game. Me, really? Bert, who relies on gut and spouts nonsense. What do you honestly expect from me

best way to solve feeling useless is to stop being useless.

In post 624, Bert wrote:What was Bulb's scum motivation behind taking such a drastic "360" on Yiley?

He took the 180 on Yiley because the wagon on Yiley was stalling, no one's posting and Yiley was consistently pretty weird. It's following his win condition as scum to push Yiley a bit and give the dead wagon a little more life.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #628 (isolation #78) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:41 pm

In post 624, Bert wrote:Nacho can you explain to me like I'm a 5 year old why Bulb is scum? It's because of his switch on Yiley?

That's what set me off, sure.

Other things:
-The townread he had on Yiley was strange; Bulbazak was pretty OK with him doing absolutely nothing, didn't really put time into reanalyzing that read or thinking about it at all.
-His current case on me is "town-Nacho would be smarter", "town-Nacho wouldn't 180 so much", "Nacho's play this game has been forgettable". Despite this, he hasn't taken any measures to explain where my pushes are dumb or bad. He's been 180'ing just as much as I have, but hasn't explained why mine are scumtells and his are not (all the while not understanding why I'm trying to figure out the reasons behind his 180s). Calling me "forgettable" would have been something that would have been somewhere close to acceptable... yesterday. It isn't today.
-His townread on Karnage. Townread on Yiley was based on weird reasons, but his townread on Karnage was based on absolutely nothing. He tells me "Karnage is town based on his play being similar to another game" and he wonders why I push for more? Really?
-Despite him not being able to get a good handle on the game, he doesn't really show any signs of being unsure. Every push he makes has too much confidence to be a half-baked theory. His playstyle is aggressive, sure, but I'd expect that playstyle to differ when he was having trouble where he normally wouldn't. This time he didn't.
-The Yiley switch. I think the timing was weird and based on "how many games did you read?" is bullshit.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #629 (isolation #79) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:42 pm

Look, Tamuz! A Bulbazak case!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #630 (isolation #80) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:45 pm

In post 626, Tamuz wrote:I only skipped a few of Beginner's posts in this game.

Was there a reason you didn't comment on the Bulbazak/me back and forth? Was it because I refused to summarize my case for you before?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #631 (isolation #81) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:46 pm

Meanwhile, would love if you talked about all of those pings you found because I sure as hell don't see any evidence of any of them in thread.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #633 (isolation #82) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:26 pm

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:Call it gut if you'd like. I know damn well enough that a 70kB catch up post that I could make helps nobody.

Except for people trying to read you. Then it helps quite a bit!

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:I'd still like a response to you blatantly lying and trying to bully me, Daniel Plainview.

I thought that I told you to read my posts, but made a mistake. I don't see where I bullied. I'm being aggressive because there's only a little time until deadline and aggression at this point is important to help the game thread move forward.

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:oh. Well, why are his 180s scumtells and yours aren't? Also 180 is a hot word among you and Mr Me. Call me crazy, but word choice resonance is a big deal.

His 180s are scumtells because the time he chose to switch makes absolutely no sense, which is something that I've stated in thread a few times, if not many times.

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:Karnage was town. This is at least the second time this game someone has been attacked for a valid read, I need to find the other one again.

Correct =/= good.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #634 (isolation #83) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:38 pm

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:Your case completely hinges on living people

This is pretty normal when there are no flipped scum, you realize.

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:that try to breath life into a game that's had 3 replacements today.

And my actions are totally not breathing life into the game? What exactly are they, then?

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:I understand you can learn some things from how people posture on the living, but town doesn't know alignments of Karnage or Yiley.

So? What I look at in a player is how they came to the conclusions that they've arrived to, are the pushes they are making opportunistic/weird. I think that Bulbazak's thought process going from Yiley-town to Yiley-scum doesn't really make much sense. If they are scumbuddies, the switch doesn't make sense. If they aren't scumbuddies, the push really doesn't make sense. AKA, I think his reasoning is bullshit.

In post 632, Tamuz wrote:Conditional arguments on them are very weak. I do note you say nothing in regards to the positions on people whose alignment we all know.

I don't. Did you? Do you think there is anything intensely valuable from the caled/ffery flips except that there is at least one scum on the caled lynchwagon? Because if so, feel free to share!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #640 (isolation #84) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:11 pm

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:My changes in stance are normally due to something happening in the game that pulls the rug out from under my feet, causing me to recalibrate.

Like "oh he read a couple games beforehand"??

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:You do a complete 180 on Caled when his wagon starts to build for no reason, placing your vote on Yiley.

I did a complete 180 on caled because of post #387, which seemed like a Vanilla Townie softclaim to me. It also seemed pretty genuine: "Oh, I'm getting lynched for a reason. Maybe if I die the rest of the scumteam will become obvious?"

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:You do a complete 180 on Yiley when his wagon starts to build, again, with no reason. You still say that you're unsure about his cluelessness, so your reasoning for the vote has not changed. There is no evidence of a changed stance anywhere. It makes me wonder if any of these pushes were genuine in the first place.

My original push on Yiley was to sort him. My current push on you is to sort you, but I feel like I'm constantly throwing myself against a brick wall as far as you/Yiley goes. Yiley I can't get anything worth anything out of because all he gives me is random reads now and then, but they don't seem opportunistic, he seems overly afraid of you flipping town, acknowledges he looks scummy, etc. etc. etc. So I constantly flip back and forth with him, but I currently lean town on him. I currently lean town on him because I don't know why the fuck you're 180'ing back and forth, I don't know why the hell you decided to make the pushes on Yiley when you did, and I don't know why you've seemed so sure in each push you've made and not alluded to any sort of doubt and why you're not even willing to admit little things, like you were pretty much reading Yiley as strong town until recently and then later you jumped all over him.

You're also not even coming close to explaining one question I asked you.
One.
I asked you why Yiley reading games is such a big deal and means he can't be playing this way as town. You say you expect him to have a basic idea of how the game works after reading one game, but you don't expect him to have a basic idea of how the game works after reading the newbie guide on the wiki? You don't expect him to have a basic idea of how the game works after playing the game to this point? I sure as hell would but I also wouldn't expect any sort of scum whatsoever to act this way. And when Yiley's play exceeds my expectations regardless of alignment, I'm forced to deal with him in a weird ass way: do I push him and then lynch him even though I don't feel very good about his lynch? No, we already did that with caled and can't afford another mislynch like that. He showed no changes in behavior when we made a random push on him except for "I know why I'm being voted", so then came the votecount in #43, with Me, you, and Beginner on a Yiley wagon. I know there's probably scum in {You, Beginner, Yiley}, Beginner's a strong townread me based on his play and all we got left is you and Yiley. So, hypothetically, if I sort out you, I can sort out Yiley because you two are probably not scum together. Your reaction to my attack on you feels like you'd react to me as scum, thus why I haven't budged and thus why I'm starting to lean town on Yiley.

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:You've taken actions so far out of context in an effort to make them appear scummier than they are.

Like what?

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:You are pushing scummy interpretations on actions that you know from experience are alignment neutral, as you've seen me do them as both, and you, therefore, know that they have nothing to do with me being scum or not.

In completed games, I've only seen town-Bulbazak. You can extrapolate from this that I don't have much experience with your scumgame (especially since all I hear about it is that it is good), so me attacking something that you think is "alignment neutral" shouldn't really be a big deal. But, we can ignore all that and I'll just point out that my main attack on you is for declaring someone town for being clueless and then suddenly calling them scum because they've read games before. You have not done THAT in any other games; if you have, please link them everywhere and I will lay at your feet and beg for a thousand apologies.

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:You are stretching, Nacho, horribly, to make your case, and it's easier for me to see it, as I have experience with you, and I know that the crap you are pushing is false, and furthermore, you know that it's false.

And I keep screaming "where am I stretching where is the bullshit where is the crap" and you keep responding "oh, it's there, it's there". It's not there. My main point on you is that you thought yiley was town, then you thought yiley was scum, and the transition you made in the interim was not so good. There is literally nothing to stretch there because it is in the thread that's in front of all of us right now. You can say "oh you don't like my switch for bad reasons", but you haven't answered why you're switch was amazing to my standards so you shouldn't be surprised I'm pushing the hell out of you and you shouldn't pull the "lol nacho knows better" when you can't answer my simple simple problems with your posts. You're also appealing to our experience together a lot. How many times have you pegged me as scum? Just wondering.

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:Maybe forgettable is the wrong word. Your play isn't really leaving that much of an impression on me. Normally when you're town, you play in a way that grabs me and informs me that you're town. There have been 1 or 2 exceptions, but generally this is the case. In this game, your play hasn't impressed me at all, and there were points d1 where I forgot you were even in the game. It worries me that I wasn't able to get a read on you at all, and I'm starting to wonder if that isn't the sign of your scumplay.

Okay. I'm very sorry that my play has not had an incredible impression on you. It should be leaving an impression on you now. Why isn't it? Are you completely blinded because I'm pushing on you and not on someone else? Why weren't you attacking me when I was going after Yiley? Sure, you were voting me, but you were voting me in a very passive way and not at all in the way I'd expect you to go after people.

In post 624, Bert wrote:What was Bulb's scum motivation behind taking such a drastic "360" on Yiley?

He took the 180 on Yiley because the wagon on Yiley was stalling, no one's posting and Yiley was consistently pretty weird. It's following his win condition as scum to push Yiley a bit and give the dead wagon a little more life.[/quote]

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:Why would I suddenly push Yiley as scum when I had been defending him all game? Wouldn't it serve my interests more to continue to defend him and attack someone else, like Bert or Windblown? Heck, why wouldn't I continue to push you, especially since I'm not shy of the bigger players no matter my alignment? The only way this makes sense is if I threw out my entire gameplay philosophy as scum.

You don't have to be afraid of pushing me, but I'm not an easy mislynch at all so it doesn't really make sense for you to push on me when all it's gonna do is kick me into gear and not get me lynched. You don't want to attack Bert or Windblown because both look reasonably town. If you want to mislynch someone, that person is likely Yiley and if you can find a reason to switch your read on him, it would probably be a decent move because Yiley was behaving so fucking weird. You're acting like people don't make suboptimal moves as scum, but... that's how people get caught out as scum.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #641 (isolation #85) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:22 pm

In post 635, Bulbazak wrote:Bert, it's not OMGUS. Imagine if Nacho attacked you based on reasons that you know are false, simply because you've played together, and you know that he is familiar enough with your play not to make those mistakes. This is what's happening here.

What mistakes am I making?
Taking things horribly out of context? Show me. Take me to the world you're dwelling in, Bulbazak.

In post 637, Tamuz wrote:When did 'changing your mind' -- reassessing with more evidence -- become scummy?

It's not and no one said it was.

In post 639, Tamuz wrote:From what I remember, Wind has many 'dead' posts. He comments on what is happening like a narrator, but did not assert his own value judgment on the thread or on idea. This pings with me.

This isn't strong at all and depresses me greatly.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #692 (isolation #86) » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:23 am

In post 677, Tamuz wrote:Nachooooooooooooooo come out and playeeaaaay.

Hi Tamuz! I think Yiley is probably scum as fuck.
I also think that the PR should claim today but we can save that until tomorrow unless for some insane reason someone disagrees about lynching Yiley.

In post 679, Bert wrote:You ever played with Tamuz before?

I think I replaced in as scum to some newbie game where he was town. I'm not sure if we were both alive, but my experience with him isn't extensive.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #693 (isolation #87) » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:23 am

I'm unsure how I feel about Tamuz.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #695 (isolation #88) » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:26 am

oh shush

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #707 (isolation #89) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:57 am

In post 700, Tamuz wrote:Next couple posts of his show he's more attentive now than before, two reasons; 1 pressure, 2 coaching.

Coaching seems to be more likely to come from a new replacement than an old slot.
Where are your numbers for the game?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #712 (isolation #90) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:13 am

In post 708, Tamuz wrote:I don't think I understand your sentence starting with coaching, could you rewrite with more explicit referencing?

Yiley has only stepped his play up today. Thus, it's more likely that he was coached by a slot that replaced in last night as opposed to someone who's been in the game from the start.

In post 708, Tamuz wrote:I haven't ran any scripts. I sold out, didn't you hear? No need to make pet projects to validate my worth anymore! (but I can seed the script if you really desire, maybe not tomorrow, I'm doing family things)

Do it! We have plenty of time.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #716 (isolation #91) » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:10 pm

I'm probably going to do a bit of rereading tonight and vote Yiley in the morning.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #727 (isolation #92) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:39 pm

I'm scared to vote.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #729 (isolation #93) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:41 pm

oh hey everyone's around
Tamuz, why are you okay with me voting Yiley?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #730 (isolation #94) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:41 pm

And who is your strongest townread?
Who is Yiley's partner?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #735 (isolation #95) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:05 pm

In post 731, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Nacho, I am concerned that you are not wary of me townreading you so easily after my complete paranoia in every game we played together.

In post 727, Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm scared to vote.

What do you think this was?

In post 732, Tamuz wrote:Aka 'who is a better lynch between Bert and Tam?'

You're the easier lynch; Bert would freak out on me if I was scum trying to mislynch him and you have wanted my lynch for a while. Now that I've demonstrated basic game awareness, you can answer my question.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #738 (isolation #96) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:09 pm

In post 736, Bert wrote:Which I haven't delivered on sowwy but seriously what do you expect from me I'm not a scum catcher

You posting helps me not being paranoid of you.
You freaking out helps me not be paranoid of you.
Your reads help me analyze my own.
Win-win-win.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #741 (isolation #97) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:11 pm

My paranoia is usually something that I file away in my paranoia bin.
Nacho in LyLo usually gets to LyLo because he's playing like shit and his reads are wrong, which makes my paranoia worse.
I try to file away my paranoia in LyLo lately, but that's left me making some dumbfuck decisions.
So it's probably gonna come in droves.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #743 (isolation #98) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:15 pm

In post 739, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I haven't finished reading. I just wanted to get reactions from Nacho while he was still around. I don't like Nacho's reaction to me when I came in to the game and declared him my strongest townread. To clarify, I didn't actually have a townread on Nacho - I wanted to see what he would do. If he was town, I'd expect him to push hard on me because my strong townread is so uncharacteristic coming from me given our history of games played together where I almost always scumread him. As scum, I'd expect him to be more laidback if Yiley was town because scum would be in such an advantageous position where they are so close to winning and it wouldn't make sense to change the direction of the game so much at such a critical juncture. As it is, Nacho questions Tamuz as opposed to turning his attention to me.

Thought process-
Falcon could be scum trying to buddy up to me, but I don't think that a meta-oriented player would immediately do something so blatantly obvious considering we just got off a game where he was paranoid as town.
Falcon could be town overcompensating for being paranoid of me, although that might be the reason Falcon thinks that he's able to get away with buddying me.
Falcon could be mimicking my playstyle and this could be a reachout so we can talk about the game together.
Falcon's not posting anything significant yet. I think I'll wait for him to post.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #746 (isolation #99) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:21 pm

In post 742, Tamuz wrote:Bert, do you think you'd be an easier lynch for scum-Nacho than I would be?

I've had a decent townread on that slot all day, so turning on it would suck if scum.
Your predecessor didn't do anything that townish, you haven't been obvtown. I have experience with Bert (and now Falcon) that makes them more likely to work with me. How are you the harder person to lynch?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #750 (isolation #100) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:48 pm

I'm interested in your input, didn't get it.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #751 (isolation #101) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:51 pm

In post 749, Tamuz wrote:That phrase is actually used by Nacho to hedge his resolute statement that he'd vote Yiley (realtime) today. There is no push on you there.

I'm doing that too.
Funny how things change.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #759 (isolation #102) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:17 pm

In post 755, Bert wrote:I'm guessing you're referring to that pet project Tamuz talked about

I'm referring to him saying he's a harder lynch than you are.

In post 757, Bert wrote:You're scared to vote and then you ask Falcon who Yiley's partner is...

These were questions directed at Tamuz, who still hasn't answered them.

In post 758, Tamuz wrote:I think hedging is always negative, how that relates to alignment is situational, but it is always a negative action.

I don't think it's always negative.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #760 (isolation #103) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:17 pm

In post 758, Tamuz wrote:Does anyone not think Yiley is scum. This is getting ridiculous, lol.

I'm interested in Falcon's input.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:48 pm

I'm online but I'm doing things elsewhere.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #784 (isolation #105) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:34 pm

Making my big post now.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #786 (isolation #106) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:59 pm

In post 761, Tamuz wrote:I don't have any good town reads. Y'all are terrible at Townie job 1 given the wagons on townies that have occurred. I think mafia is Yiley + [Bert/Nacho]. This is established in my posts.

I hate the way this is framed. Having no strong townreads in LyLo and yet still being completely convinced of your Yiley scumread (and willing to go after me or Bert because of your weird coaching tell) is scummy as fuck. Bert and I have both been in the game since Day 1, meaning we've had every opportunity to coach Yiley if we needed to. And yet we don't for some reason, why? You have been in the game Day 2, and then after the night, Yiley actually comes up with something in thread. Who is the most likely to be the coach in this scenario?

In post 764, The Silver Bard wrote:For providing no reads far into day one.

I provided reads on multiple occasions. What game are you reading?

In post 764, The Silver Bard wrote:For his wishy-washy stance on Yiely, he is town, no scum, no town, no scum.

Hard to get a handle on someone when you have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

In post 764, The Silver Bard wrote:For his general lack of scumhunting. He is just going along, appearing to be active, asking oneliner questions and arguing with his scumbuddy.

Support any of this, please.

In post 764, The Silver Bard wrote:PS: I would like to vote for Tamuz, but don’t know the proper formatting. Can someone give me a hint how to.

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: Tamuz

I'd recommend waiting, however. There's still plenty we have to talk about in this day.

In post 771, The Silver Bard wrote:The thing is that your "bus-preparations" must be ignored by us townies on day 4, then we win.

Funny. Tamuz and I both came out pretty hard against Yiley, and we probably could have got him lynched if we were scum together. There was no reason for my hesitation in #727, for example, considering I stated I was going to vote Yiley and had absolutely every reason to.

In post 773, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:But considering he wasn't actually pushing for the lynch, I am not really sure how much he is trying to keep his hands clean and how much of it is just part of Bert's personality. Nacho, thoughts on this?

Bert isn't the type to use distancing language as scum. He'd be more likely to get caledfwitch lynched and not worry about the backlash since he believes he isn't expected to have any good reads.

In post 773, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I really, really like how Bert pushes me to post more analysis in this game and says that a one-line catchup post won't do.

I liked that quite a bit as well.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:00 pm

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: Tamuz[/b]

sorry this is the real voting code

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:01 pm

In post 740, Bert wrote:
In post 735, Nachomamma8 wrote:Bert would freak out on me if I was scum trying to mislynch him and you have wanted my lynch for a while.
DON'T YOU WORRY BABY, I'll sit on my hands and be calm as a cucumber, love

532 Rows and Columns was an aberration (at least I hope)

I'm getting used to people being paranoid about me ever since they realized my scum game doesn't suck despite my town game sucking (to be blunt)

you and Cabd are trying that thing to reaction test me, that is no fun, I will NOT BACK DOWN

just sayin' <3

This was the point where I set away my Bert paranoia for good, by the by.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:02 pm

With Falcon, I like Falcon's early attacks on me when he came into the game. I like the meta analysis he's provided so far. I think that his predecessors were both pretty fucking town in their own special ways, so seeing Falcon's long meta cases is intensely reassuring.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #802 (isolation #110) » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:12 am

In post 791, The Silver Bard wrote:Instead you should now post your hard stance on the remaining players in this game, and post your analysis instead of just bickering about. Same goes for Nacho. No more beating around the bush, give me your read at this time, with reasoning!!

You and Tamuz are the scumteam.

In post 792, The Silver Bard wrote:You provided your first real reads in post #428. With the “lynchpost” on #455 I say that is deep into day one. I would also say your read post lacks reasoning behind it.

Windblown-Yiley townreads offered in #28, along with a caled-scumread.
Beginner scumread in #38 (along with reasoning for other reads).
Beginner townread in #65.
Attack on caled in #214.

I don't think it's accurate to say that I gave no scumreads and didn't scumhunt until deep into Day 1, sorry.

In post 792, The Silver Bard wrote:I agree, Yiely was hard to get a read on. But that is what baffles me about your willingness to lynch him day 1. You changed your vote to him when there were clearly better candidates, like the one that got lynched. It doesn’t feel right to me this voteswitch you did there.

I was willing to lynch him because he wasn't giving anything to work with.
Why was caled a better candidate?

In post 793, The Silver Bard wrote:Is it more likely that Yiley played a newb town game, than Karnage/Tamuz/Nacho playing a bad town game (meaning not being able to prove themselves town without a doubt).

What does this even mean?

In post 794, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:So, if Tamuz was scum with SilverBard, what is his game plan? He and his buddy try to pull a mislynch on you when neither Bert nor Mr. Me have expressed suspicion?

Tamuz was going to hard bus Yiley tomorrow, kill your slot, then aim to make himself look town because of the whole "Yiley mentioned suspicion about one of Bert/Nacho thus he was coached to bus" like he talked about in #700.

In post 794, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:If I was in your place, I'd have a hard time seeing scum keeping me alive

Windblown was suspicious of Karnage, wasn't really a viable mislynch at all. Scum also could have thought I looked much worse after the Bulbazak mislynch.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #804 (isolation #111) » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:14 am

You're drinking tea with alcohol?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #810 (isolation #112) » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:17 am

In post 805, Bert wrote:You started my trend, remember our afternoon teas we had in Popcorn??

i am sorry for my horrible failure

In post 808, Bert wrote:How sure are you?

I'm pretty close to being 100% thanks to you and Falcon.

In post 794, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:What about the attacks did you like? You and I both know you have a meta for townreading your attackers. You know that I know it because I used it in Chosen Mafia. Why aren't you adjusting your tendency to townread me based on attacks to account for my knowledge of your meta?

You didn't just attack me. You attacked me based on my response to a reaction test which you then backed up with how you expected me to act based our experiences together. This is a hell of a thought process to fake if scum, don't you think?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #814 (isolation #113) » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:20 am

In post 811, The Silver Bard wrote:I must say I am a bit disappointed in how you guys have responded to my entry into the thread. For an entire game you have a player who is pretty much impossible to make sense of, and when I come in you either club me down or write about me, instead of trying to engage me.

They've been trying to sort you. I have no idea what else you expect from them.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #816 (isolation #114) » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:21 am

In post 811, The Silver Bard wrote:I would expect the scumplayers to club me down, and defend against me.

In post 811, The Silver Bard wrote:I will not be around to bicker against players with a scumagenda though.

You see why this is problematic, right?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #820 (isolation #115) » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:28 am

Bert, you don't have a gun.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #821 (isolation #116) » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:29 am

I think I'm about ready to vote Tamuz though. Should I do it?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:12 am

Your tilting doesn't have the passion it needs in order to get the reactions you want

Nachomamma8 · Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:12 am

i dunno why i feel so incredibly calm in this lylo because normally i've been flipping the fuck out during lylos
but the SCUMPUTER tells me i have nothing to worry about

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #844 (isolation #119) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:43 am

In post 829, Tamuz wrote::rolleyes: Well at least you induced paranoia in Bert by making up a scenario.

If you telegraph your scumplan there's no reason I shouldn't call you out on it.

In post 831, Bert wrote:Nachooooo, you put aside my invitation for you to dance with me, get out of your comfort zone... Not feeling the widespread air of authenticity, sorry. It ain't that hard, and I ain't too proud to beg.....sing along now...

I brought my dancing shoes a while back.
And they are a little old, a little worn down but I'm still willing to bring the work in when you're ready to get off your lazy ass and show me some

conviction

. Otherwise, all this equates to is shittalking and while it's fun as fuck, it won't help you determine my alignment because I am an excellent shittalker either way.

In post 832, Bert wrote:And why do you wanna vote Tamuz over Yiley's replacement?

I think Silver Bard looks incredibly scummy, and would rather lynch the big dog today. It's also looking like you see Tamuz and I are not a likely pairing, so a Tamuz scum flip today is pretty much a win tomorrow.

In post 835, Bert wrote:Nacho-Yiley seems more likely because of the distancing D1/D2, and then the subsequent withdrawing of the scumread on D2.

Why does this make us more likely to be scum together?

In post 835, Bert wrote:This is incredibly passive,

716 was actually sort of an aggressive move, considering LyLo.
The rest was passive. Nacho is not always an aggressive choo choo train.

In post 841, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Quick questions: What is tilting? And what is dancing? I am referring to them as they apply to mafia. I've seen those terms thrown around quite a bit amongst a few players.

Tilting: Making an aggressive attack on a player with no prior posturing or hinting at it; if it's a midgame tilt, it's against a player you've had a townread on before (and would presumably be coasting on your townread on them). Sometimes it's used to settle niggling feeling of paranoia, other times you have revelations and you attack the living fuck out of them.

Dancing: Making a single player your top priority of the game, with them making you their top priority. It's usually between people who are familiar with each other so they have the opportunity to sort one another and have no real excuse for differing reads later in the game, but is usually especially effective with a player you've been clashing with a couple of times throughout the game but having nothing significant with.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #846 (isolation #120) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:28 am

In post 845, The Silver Bard wrote:This is final warning though, unless you start interacting with me Bert and F16 I will selfvote and give scum the possibility to end this game, as you guys got no interest in solving it.

Self-voting is game throwing, and I have no idea why you would make such a desperate move when I'm posturing to vote Tamuz (my scumpartner from your PoV). I'll also give you the advice that it's your duty to make the reach out, not Bert/F-16's. There's also the sense that a good town player sorts the game in whatever way he excels at, so you expecting extra privilege as a replacement is complete and total crap.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #848 (isolation #121) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:03 am

Are you doing your rereads, F-16?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #852 (isolation #122) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:40 am

In post 850, Bert wrote:But Bert's here, why not adapt for changing conditions, you are nocturnal

It's not something you can turn on/off, or else it would be easily fakeable as scum.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #854 (isolation #123) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:44 am

I don't think so. If you copy/paste notes, that's generally fine.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #857 (isolation #124) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:54 am

In post 855, The Silver Bard wrote:I was on page 9, when I got the go ahead to be replaced in, so here are some reads on Yiley as well.

This means it is useless for reading you

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #859 (isolation #125) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:26 am

I mean I'm sure you're genuine with this I just don't know why it makes you town.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #864 (isolation #126) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:25 am

In post 861, The Silver Bard wrote:But the townplayers can ask themselves is this genuine or is it forced? Would he be bothered to make a readlist as scum? Is this readlist one that town would do or is it just bad, and perhaps even made up yesterday and not even when he claimed it was?

You made this reads list before you replaced in so of course it's genuine.

In post 861, The Silver Bard wrote:It is much harder to get genuine reads when you know you are scum and you know who is town and who is your scumbuddy.

But you didn't know you were scum yet.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #874 (isolation #127) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:54 am

In post 872, Bert wrote:Nacho please be an aggressive choo choo train for Bert??

Who do you want to vote today out of Bard/Tamuz?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #878 (isolation #128) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:05 am

not hammering

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #880 (isolation #129) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:06 am

Still not breaking your heart, Bert. Now can we talk TSB?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #882 (isolation #130) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:06 am

In post 875, Bert wrote:That, and TSB's tone kinda feels genuine with the last few posts...him bringing back Excel spreadsheets, and then "This is up to each player to decide what to believe, obviously you believe I am lying here, and thats fine."

he wrote them before he replaced in
they are completely irrelevant to his alignment

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #884 (isolation #131) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:07 am

It's like a humongous harebrained scheme which is normally something I would call town but in this specific case he's using something that he posted BEFORE HE REPLACED IN in order to confirm himself as town.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #887 (isolation #132) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:10 am

And I'll note that those early reads don't strongly trend towards the Nacho/Tamuz scumteam that he's trying to push; they push towards Yiley/Bulba/caled scum, and Bulba/caled are the two people I ended up mislynching. So I don't understand why he's been so completely confident that you and Falcon have been town and why he's been

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #888 (isolation #133) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:10 am

Falcon

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #890 (isolation #134) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:11 am

Falcon.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #892 (isolation #135) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:12 am

well yeah but we coulda finished talking today

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #895 (isolation #136) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:14 am

In post 887, Nachomamma8 wrote:And I'll note that those early reads don't strongly trend towards the Nacho/Tamuz scumteam that he's trying to push; they push towards Yiley/Bulba/caled scum, and Bulba/caled are the two people I ended up mislynching. So I don't understand why he's been so completely confident that you and Falcon have been town and why he's been

...pushing the Tamuz/me thing so clearly and confidently that he refuses to talk with either of us altogether. As in, yeah, I understand that snagging early reads is a good thing, but everyone has niggles of paranoia here and there, and most people don't just completely ignore them.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #899 (isolation #137) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:28 am

In post 896, Bert wrote:Nacho probably goes tomorrow, despite what I said, cuz you were so passive with your vote after saying you wanted to vote Tamuz

that is not very Nacho-like

this is why I wanted to talk out things more today

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #902 (isolation #138) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:14 am

cheeky scumfuck

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #903 (isolation #139) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:19 am

you think that you got the game wrapped up because bert is expressing suspicion of me now?
you think all you gotta do is kill F-16 and skip to your free win?
there is no free lunch, scumbag.
there will be nowhere for you to hide from me.
you won't be able to ignore me tomorrow when it's me and you and confirmed town.
i wanted to sort this shit out today so that bert wouldn't have to deal in sorting between me and someone else in lylo, but there's no reason that i have to hold back anymore.
there's no reason for any pretense
there's no reason for anything that isn't "you are 100% confirmed scum and these are the reasons why".
i'm a good town player in many respects
but the one place I excel
the top of the game that I never get to experience quite enough
is the
1
versus
1

i'm coming for you, bard.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #932 (isolation #140) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:26 am

I was incredibly uncomfortable day 3. The reason I wasn't voting Tamuz/Yiley immediately is because I was hoping Falcon would finally post the rest of his catchup, although I did feel pretty strongly that Tamuz was scum after his post-game scuffle.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #933 (isolation #141) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:26 am

Excellent work by scum! I'll post thoughts on this later.