Newbie 1437 - Chocolate Fondue Mafia (Over)

[notscience]

(He was the IC in my first game ever)

You too?

:O

VOTE: Jmo

TAM's questions

1- EST
2- Less until I get my new laptop
3- A lot
4- Liars is no (BP claiming doc and vice versa), lurking is no (however it goes on a case by case basis for these
5- Meh

[notscience]

Um, depending when I order it, it should be a weekish

[notscience]

So, I'll be

active

but not over the top like usual, because I have to share laptops with the family now.

[notscience]

I don 't lynch all liars given some PRs basically having to lie.

I don't lynch explicitly lurkers although as Flay said, they detract from the game.

If you're townw, do not lurk. It's that simple.

[notscience]

Also just curious why in most questioners do they ask if you believe in lynching all liars or lurkers?

Because these are things EVERYONE has an opinion on and the contrasting opinions start conversation.

[notscience]

I want your answer to the last bit after he answers Jmo.

[notscience]

Bane, do you think flay's attack on me was one coming from scum?

[notscience]

Do you need a case to jump on someone?

[notscience]

That was a question towards Flay, TAM :/

[notscience]

Spoiler: >.>

If the "slip" is about me calling the players on Fear's list "town" then I think that's slightly ridiculous.
It should have been obvious that I wasn't calling their alignment, I was using town in the sense of "this game's group of players".

You're right, that's the simple explanation. But it also could indicate that you knew no scum were in that group. Cases are built on such small things.

UNVOTE: Xiao Long However right now I much prefer to VOTE: JerryArr. Xiao has been much more plugged-in in the last page or so, and answering questions without the snippiness and has good responses to (most) suspicions. Jerry on the other hand is voting for pressure with 6 days left. WTF??

Sorry, quick post this morning before I fall into a coding pit. Will try to come back this evening/afternoon with more, as things are ramping up.

By my count we have everyone posting except for rmpeacoc, who is an SE and has confirmed and should know better. MAYBE she's gone for the weekend... but

FOS: rmpeacoc

just to encourage the posting.

I like jon_h61 so far. Fear is trying too hard, but that might be a null tell based on personality. JerryArr's love for No Lynch seems to be born of ignorance, not malice.

However I'm not liking Xiao Long's minimalist posting so far, combined with the limited access. If you're only going to be able to post every two days, you have to make those posts COUNT. "k" does not count, FYI. "Depends on the situation" does not count. Expand. Ask some questions of your own. Or become a piñata. VOTE: Xiao Long

Welp. VOTE: jon_h61 for reasons already stated. He was around yesterday but didn't post.

UNVOTE: notscience - reading.

Oh CHRIST. I just figured out why nqt was obsessed with hypotheticals. I'm an idiot.

VOTE: notquitethere - die Roleblocking scum.

VOTE: Flay

[notscience]

That was 1382, a game I played with Flay.

In there, he doesn't have vote cases.

Yet, he says it's good to do that. Here, where the votes are on him.

[notscience]

Town

[notscience]

Let's dance.

Now you're talking my language.

Rebuttal coming shortly.

[notscience]

Busy all day, will answer.when I get home. Phoneposting atm

[notscience]

I don't think you understand what I mean by 'vote cases' I mean a reason to vote. Any reason, even a small one, is good Day One. But sitting back and going "hurr I'm waiting for something to happen" is not good for the game. Random voting is not good for the game past the first couple of posts (and not really good there, but it does minimal harm). Jerry's (who was scum in 1397) pressure voting close to deadline was a reason to vote him. Minimalist and uncooperative posting by Xiao Long was a reason to vote him. A case doesn't have to be a wallpost, especially in the early game.

So why are you pushing a wagon onto me for basically saying to do what I'm doing? Also "here where the votes are on him" is a big misrep when you're onto the second vote on me. Some people are questioning what I was doing with the wagon on jmo16mla, but only Number One had voted until you did. And for somebody who wants me to back up my 'vote cases' dictum, you haven't done much to build yours.

Let's dance. VOTE: notscience

1) I didn't say it was my opinion, but I do not ONCE remember you asking that in either of the games we have played (where you were town in both).

2) Fair point about wagon size, I misjudged it.

3) Are you saying that if you don't explicitly state your reasoning in a vote then you're scum?

4) I wouldn't say, pushing your lynch. I voted you and presented my reasoning based on the games I've played with you, are you saying that my "case"- which earlier in that post said was meant to be a reason- wasn't well built? So, me having a meta based reason to vote someone =/= good reasoning? Seems like an attempt to discredit.

[notscience]

Your post was so blatantly a misrep, there was no reason to reply to it.

Nice chainsaw though.

[notscience]

I'm pretty sure I don't have any tells that blatant... I'm a case-based player, not gut-based, like I said. That works for me as scum or town.

... I'm still waiting for that case, I hope. Basically all you've said so far is "he asked for cases or suspects from people who aren't stating their suspects or cases yet!" If you've got more, now is the time to bring it.

Wrong. I'm saying you're using policies that didn't seem remotely important to you in our other games. Where you were town.

Love all the townreads I have on my wagon btw- oh, wait.

[notscience]

Mind, can you give a full reads list please?

[notscience]

I haven't seen TAM-scum before so I have only towngames to compare it to.

[notscience]

notsci is that fixed yet??

My laptop was delivered to my moms house today while she was in the shower >.>

Will be tomorrow.

As for the change in playing, I personally find myself better when I do a late switchin than when I start up. My reads when I've been in a game longer aren't as good usually. Granted, I haven't been giving this game the attention it deserves (which will change w/ my new laptop.

As for the question of TAM's behavior, I'm not finding this too off what I've seen before. He definately is kinda a background person.

[notscience]

I'm going to townbloc becasue scumhunting isn't cutting it this game.

Thus far-

Me, Mindgamer

[notscience]

jmo, I don't like the number vote. Feels newbtown to me.

[notscience]

In response to Mindgamers section on the great and powerful Fart Bane

I've seen newbscum do this

[notscience]

jmo and flay do you want in the townbloc

[notscience]

Why aren't you?

I've seen the exact same behaviour, the hiding of townreads, as well as solid reasoning and not just made up bullshit for votes coming predominately from town.

[notscience]

When you said this you had Flay, Duck and Fart Bane on your wagon. Yet Duck and Bane aren't included in your block. So all in all you have a townread on 5 out of 7 players (5 out of 6 not including yourself). I fail to see how additional townhunting is going to help you when you've already formed townreads on every player but one.
Also, I remember you saying you were going to give this game the attention it deserved when you got your laptop. So far I've only seen a few 'might be newbtown/newbscum' comments, that hardly qualifies as the attention you should put into this game after your lackluster performance yesterday.

Flay, we really need that Sarcasm font.

Why am I townblocing? Simple. My style of scumhnuting isn't working.

[notscience]

Repeating what you already said doesn't refute my argument. I wouldn't call this townbloc particularly effective either, seeing as no one has accepted your offer. Do you have any scumreads at all so far?

I don't care if they deny it or not, PoE works wonders. The fact that people ARE denying it, showing that skepticism speaks volumes to their alignment.

[notscience]

Lets pretend she is a jailer. She jailed _____ and someone died meaning that person isn't scum. (Truthfully I don't know if one scum is jailed the other can kill someone still.
Lets pretend she is a cop. She... copped (?) ______ and she saw that she saw the person was a scum or townie. She would want him on her town block or she would try to lynch him once the town block was formed.
And so on I think you get what I'm trying to say...

Please, stop speculating on power roles or what not. That's horribly anti town and you're potentially giving away clues as to who has a PR and who doesnt. Essentially, you're potentially screwing town in the ass.

And this is why he doesn't get access to the townbloc

With that said

VOTE: FB

[notscience]

Why is it opportunistic?

[notscience]

And now you're trying to say that because you made a "bad move" it's not scummy.

Doesn't work that way.

You aren't in the townbloc, which means you must be scum.

[notscience]

That seems a little reductive, notsci. I don't recall you having an aversion to null reads. Why did you vote him now and not earlier?

I'm gonna be brief today because costume building for Saturday. Oi. Anyway, I don't like the townbloc idea for reasons earlier mentioned. N1's latest posts (219 in particular) have helped reduce my scumread somewhat. I still don't like that my top two scumreads are the voting wagon on Fart Bane the Hapless, so I'm not removing it yet. It really smells like a push for an easy lynch to get us to LyLo.

If it's any consolation, N1 is bussing his buddy for us

[notscience]

OIC. Case?

He's not in the townbloc, thus he must be scum

Why isn't it you bussing your buddy instead?

Because my role PM says I'm town

[notscience]

And you say I'm bussing? Me, when you are trying to convince people who are suspicious of me to vote for someone else entirely? If anything, I'd say that notscience is bussing his scumbuddy.

So, I'm bussing my scumbuddy by trying to convince people not to vote you over him?

And no Flay, it has You me mind and jmo

[notscience]

jmo and flay do you want in the townbloc

This is a request. It's not a declaration. Why are we all Town, anyway?

I'm not requesting I'm demanding

Jmo because he could have easily construed your whole quickhammer bit yesterday to be you in a scumlighting and decided you were town

You for the quickhammer bit, I'd expect scum-flay to be a bit more cautious about that

Mindgamer I've already explained somewhere

[notscience]

In fact you've NEVER mentioned The-Duck.

He's scum too

Mod sent 3 scum role pms out by mistake

[notscience]

I don't know about him.

I don't like the other two more than him, but I can't seem to find the reasoning to move theduck into the townbloc.

[notscience]

You act like you 100% know who the scum and town are. Which you don't. Risking it all for your reads doesn't make much sense. We are already down 2. Like number 1 said another town death would suck. Why do you press you point? I just don't get it. I really want to vote you but I feel what your doing is just unthought through not scummy.

First line is a scumslip.

Im dead on.

[notscience]

You act like you 100% know who the scum and town are.

He's saying this which implies I'm town, yet saying things like he think's I'm scum.

[notscience]

If he's trying to call me scum for it why isn;t there a vote from him on me then? Why is he letting everyone else push other lynches if he's so sure I'm scum?

[notscience]

Yeah, basically notsci's entire case on this page is crap. Unfortunately I'm not sure it's a tell for him.

notsci: Link me your best completed game as Town? You don't have to have won, but I want to see GOOD arguments from you.

Um

Do people actually have to listen to the case?

[notscience]

Simple.

Do people adhere the case, follow it, or ignore it altogether.

[notscience]

The fact I actually have to think about this is pathetic. In terms of actual cases, my Shii bits in 1419 lylo are probably the best.

[notscience]

He promised us to give the game the attention it deserves, but comes out of Night 1 saying that scumhunting isn't working this game, despite not trying it. Unless his scumhunting is twiddling thumbs untill a scum falls in his lap.

Discredits ahoy

After that, he proposes to form a townbloc, because finding town works better then finding sum. This is most definetly true, for scum. It's way easier to call someone town than it is to call someone scum, based on the simple fact that only one of those things requires lying.

There are several players who base their whole playstyle around finding who is town and then using PoE. It's just as viable.

The reasons he chooses to put people in his townbloc are at the very best unthoughtful. Jmo and flay both get in because of the quickhammer and the response to that. If both are scum, Jmo's response is also quite a logical thing to do, so the conclusion that they are both town is too premature.

Someone's butthurt they aren't in the townbloc

His last bit, about people not having to follow cases also seems scum motivated to me. To me it reads like he wants to drop some case on someone, and then not push it so nothing happens with it and he can continue to pretend like he's trying to find scum.

I literally have 0 idea what foxhole you pulled this out of

[notscience]

Notscience, you seem more focused on making your townbloc than getting an accurate lynch. You don't seem to care about who the mafia are, and your reasoning to accuse someone or defend your ideas is "they're not in the townbloc, so their argument is invalid".

It's true. Why? Accurate lynches in a pool of 3. Hey, that's funny! With 2 scum and one town in that pool, we lynch all 3 and auto-win.

In post 284, Mindgamer wrote:
I would like to hear everyone's scumspects now.


For my suspect list, my suspects are Fart Bane and Notscience.

aka the two biggest scumspects of everyone today

[notscience]

A good thing called #yolo

[notscience]

I actually have liked playing scum recently, check 1496 (the game right after Flay's only experience with scum-me.

Trying to paint apathy as alignment indicative is also bad. See:DC vs marvel. I was town, and I didn't actually care after the vig killed obvtown

532 D1

[notscience]

Intent to hammer this early in the day.

Jeez flay, you know how I feel about ending the day short.

[notscience]

I changed my mind because of how they're reacting to each other. I can no longer understand what notscience is doing, and I read over their arguments again, which made me believe that they're not bussing.

As for making the situation more volatile, it's because I was worried about this causing the townbloc to be formed. I firmly believe that there is at least 1 mafia in there, most likely notscience. Even if he is town, I'm not willing to risk the game on the credibility of his townbloc.

There's several problems with this post.

Lets go over them, shall we.

1) The only person in my suggested townbloc that he has EXPRESSED misgivings about is jmo. And even then, they seem to have subsided.

2) He's trying to dissolve it. Like, he's trying to offhandedly discredit me so that when I flip town you all will ignore this. Now, why would this happen? Because I have both him and his scumbud out of my townbloc.

Lets look at his most recently announced reads on those who ARENT in my townbloc- Hm, that's funny. It seems they were both null. Now, why would he be worrying about my townbloc's credibility once I flip town if he doesn't have townreads on the two others not in my townbloc?

[notscience]

I changed my mind because of how they're reacting to each other. I can no longer understand what notscience is doing, and I read over their arguments again, which made me believe that they're not bussing.

As for making the situation more volatile, it's because I was worried about this causing the townbloc to be formed. I firmly believe that there is at least 1 mafia in there, most likely notscience. Even if he is town, I'm not willing to risk the game on the credibility of his townbloc.

There's several problems with this post.

Lets go over them, shall we.

1) The only person in my suggested townbloc that he has EXPRESSED misgivings about is jmo. And even then, they seem to have subsided.

I'm only slightly suspicious of jmo, but I'm highly suspicious of you right now.

The self preservation is real

2) He's trying to dissolve it. Like, he's trying to offhandedly discredit me so that when I flip town you all will ignore this. Now, why would this happen? Because I have both him and his scumbud out of my townbloc.

I'm firmly confident that you are scum. I don't need to discredit you. And supposing you weren't, in what way would the flip be ignored? I am trying to dissolve your townbloc because I believe you to be scum.

And here's what you're saying. If I'm town my flip won't be ignored, but you're trying to dissolve my townbloc before you see my flip because once you do you will have to result to hardcore discredits. For someone so firmly sure I'm scum you haven't laid out legitimate reasons, no?

Lets look at his most recently announced reads on those who ARENT in my townbloc- Hm, that's funny. It seems they were both null. Now, why would he be worrying about my townbloc's credibility once I flip town if he doesn't have townreads on the two others not in my townbloc?

Do you mean my read on The-Duck, which happened back on Day 1? Or my so-called 'null' read on Fart Bane?

brb quoting

Well, let's see what I've missed. Jmo seems to have not provided much information, and my initial town read on him has changed, as I'm finding him to be a bit scummy.

Mr. Flay is looking pretty town to me now, given his recent posts.

I'm neutral on the-duck and zakk at the moment. Can't really tell what side they're on.

My feelings towards notscience being scum have diminished, given his responses to Fart Bane, although not entirely.

Fart Bane also is seeming a bit scummy over his reasoning on notscience. Still, I don't see enough at the moment to justify a vote.

TAM could be a playstyle thing, like what The-Duck said. Unfortunately, I cannot address any of his suspicions against me when I don't know what they are. Still, he looks town to me.

Endernys...I don't even know.

For now, I'll

Vote: Jmo

mostly out of my instinct. I'm finding his play to be evasive, by not providing at least a bit of insight or giving reasons.

This is the last time you mention a read on The-duck, and Fart Bane is your scumread. You keep saying you think scum is in it but it's probably not me. How Jmo is supsicious too. Now, what's weird is that rather than come out and say why I'm wrong, you're just trying to say "nah don't trust him guys." Why would town need to do that? What happens when I'm confirmed town? He goes after Jmo.

Why do you all think he's fighting the townbloc so hard? Neither him nor his scumbuddy are in it.

[notscience]

confbias is my specialty

[notscience]

Lets see.

Newest town game finished that I didn't get fully disengaged from was 1436- I confbiased there

Borkgame just finished but I disengaged hard from that game for ~reasons~

532 recently finished

Tales got cancelled and I did a decent job there

[notscience]

Agreed, lack of activity is murdering this town. I'm guilty of it too.

That said, notsci has posted several times on the site today. Claim delay in progress!

lol'd.

I'm going to continue to delay my claim because there is 0 chance we lynch anyone else.

Although, flay. Here's what's bugging me. You're focused on things I do as town rather than things I do as scum. Especially how it's incorrect, as I tried to form a townbloc in Tales which you seem to haven eglected to mention.

[notscience]

Agreed, lack of activity is murdering this town. I'm guilty of it too.

That said, notsci has posted several times on the site today. Claim delay in progress!

I've delayed my claim intentionally and have gotten out of a lynch as town. That's not a scum tell,

Especially given this game, the claim delay means nothing.

[notscience]

Flay, Why would scum delay his claim in this game?

Why would town delay their claim in this game?

Scum are really the only ones who EVER need to delay, usually because they have to figure out what is safe to claim. Town should not be lying or dissembling about their claim, especially if they are a PR.

I disagree. Scum usually have PRs figured out in pre-game. Most games I've been in, that's been the case. The only reason I'm delaying is so I get time to make a formal case

[notscience]

And that still doesn't answer why you would delay the

claim

, as Town. If you'd just asked "don't hammer until I make my case" I believe we would have obliged you.

Good to know now, not much use anymore.

Lets assume I said that btw

I'm a VT

[notscience]

This isn't going to have quotes because it's kinda difficult. I've been waiting to make this because I girued it would rake a while.

Now.

To figure out the scum, I started townhunting. Why did I start townhunting? Because lately, chasing scumreads hasn't worked out for me. So, if I can figure out who is town, I can figure out who is scum based from there.

Why do I think Flay is town? Flay's response to my incorrect meta, the hammervote. I expect scum-flay to be more careful than that. And, if he was scum, he had every right to hammer me for being anti-town and not directly stating my claim and etc.

Why do I think Jmo is town? This is weaker, but... Look at how he came into today. He knows flay is an easy mislynch for scum to push and automatically tries to shut that down. He's being very pro-active.

Why do I think Mindgame is town? Look at his posts. Especially him re:The hammer. He actually went an dchased down that information to prove his point. He's holding his cards, similar to what I've seen Wisdom do with his townreads.

That explains my townreads. Now, I have a pool of 3 for the scumteam.

Of the three, the-duck looks most likely to be town. But, I can't seem to find a reason to move him into my townblock.

Number- He immediately jumps to try to dissolve my townbloc. He then says, if I flip town, my reads will be given cadence. Now, here's what's weird. If my reads will be thought of if I flip town, wouldn't dissolving the BASIS for my reads o against that? Now, why would someone fight so fervently against that as scum? Because them and their scumbuddies are in the pool. What were his reads on those in my townbloc? The only two scumreads are a full one on me (which if I am lynched is proved wrong) and a slight one on jmo. So, he doesn't trust y reads, yet he agrees with some of them? Wouldn't it make sense for flay-mind to townbloc given how they were in both our townreads, yet he says not to trust MY reads.

Fart Bane- Mostly PoE, but here's a formal bit.

Ah. Just for the record

vote not science [/b ]
I have a strange feeling from not science not exactly scum just more of not thinking anything through.

I lied before, I have to have this quote to show you how stupid this wagon on me is. If this doesn't SCREAM inside information to any of you then lmfao.

[notscience]

Why? Why not wait for the flip?

because that's what I'm going to flip, lmfao.

I'll get a bit more on FB later.

[notscience]

Notscience, How is it weird that Number wants to give more weight to your reads if you flip town? I'd say it's only logical.. When you are confirmed as a townie, your reads are not tainted by your alignment, and therefore more trustworthy than the reads of someone you think might be scum.

He is trying to DISSOLVE the basis of my reads. By DISSOLVING IT you therefore make it impossible to look at after my flip.

Lets lookat fart bane shall we.

His recent vote on me, saying he doesnt think I'm scum but he thinks I'm just confused. Now, why would someone place a vote like that? And doesn't this seems like an informationslip?

Now, lets look at his vote history. For someone he doesn't think is scum, he's been on me for the second half of D1 and all of D2. What sense does it make to plant a vote on someone you don't think to be scum.

Lets look at his ISO. I don't see any real scumhunting. You know who it kinda reminds me of? The scum who quickhammered me in our newbie a while ago.

[notscience]

Why is mindgamer anti-town? I actually find him really town lol.

I agree on FB though. Other scum is probaby number.

[notscience]

Fart and Number with Duck as my third.

[notscience]

By the way, NS you posted that you were stalling your claim to create time to make a formal case, was that summary of your previous posts and that quote from FB it?

Yes because I don't have the time to develop a quotestripe case and last time I did that the person I did it against was like lolno not responding

[notscience]

OH MY GOD WE JUST CAUGHT SCUM AFRAID TO ACCIDENTALLY LYNCH HIS SCUMBUD LMFAO

[notscience]

VOTE: FB

[notscience]

What? This 'scum' who was on your townbloc? So how many scum are there now? 3? 4?

No, the one who went and unvoted his scumbud when the wagon started to form on him.

Flay, same thing happened as the last newbie. Scum lynch me but I serve one up on a silver platter.

[notscience]

I present to thy town the heads of thy biggest enemies, the scumteam of FB and number. Be gracious unto thee in the afterlife

[notscience]

I'm lynching the fuck out of flay tomorrow.

Don't.

Ask flay for the game we were in together, and read the few pages I was in. SAME THING happened here.

[notscience]

Doc/Watcher is really OP, I find fault with that combination every time I see it.

[notscience]

Doc/Watcher infinite loop

[notscience]

The townbloc doe ;-;