Newbie 1437 - Chocolate Fondue Mafia (Over)

[geraintm]

Hello all. Morning here in the uk. Likely able to post this evening. I've been readinf and rhe person I think is scum is still alive, but will reread after the docs death

[geraintm]

Epic usefulness.

My post? I didn't have time this morning to write properly, but wantes to say hi. Is that bad?

Re: role claim there is only one roll to claim, right?

[geraintm]

Oh, not a fan of claiming now if my understanding of set up is right.

[geraintm]

Firstly, a bit more of a hello.

This is my first game back after a 4 year break. I am very rusty.

I have spent the last few days of real life reading the thread, I didn’t have anything else to do. I really hoped I wasn’t going to be night killed before I could post. That would suck.

Ok, my understanding of the game is that if we have a doc, that means the town either has a cop or a tracker to go with it.

Really don’t like the idea of that person coming forward now.
Think they are better off keeping that information secret until they can use what information they have at a better time.

Tracker will know if someone is mafia if they tracked them and got a hit, right? But getting a negative doesn’t mean anything as the other mafia could have done it, right?

If cop, they will have hits or misses on a few people. Should be able to spot a wagon forming on any innocents and use that info. They are only completely useless to us right now if they have spent every night investigating dead people (if you have, slow hand clap from here). Shouldn’t announce themselves as cop, because they can perhaps, if they exist, get another investigation tonight. if they announce they are cop (same as with tracker) they are going to get killed tonight turning tomorrow into a 50/50.
Maybe also if a pressured scum claims cop we get the cop or tracker to then know they are lying.

To me, all them claiming does is turn the game into town having to lynch correctly today and correctly tomorrow, instead of town lynching correctly today and then having a 2/3 chance that the role doesn’t die overnight and that person can come forward then?

I hope people don’t think of me as scum.
This may sound odd, but the main reason, forgetting anything the previous player wrote, is that in my experience scum just don’t quit games, not when they are so close to winning. Just goes against all human nature I have seen with people playing mafia.
People can argue this, but I know I am town and the previous player’s actions to me seem totally against what an interested scum would do.

Reading the game, what was this whole townblock thing? Whatever this tactic is I had never seen it back when I used to play, is it common now?
Bringing it into a beginner game though seems a hideous idea. If anyone ever tries it with me again I’ll stomp on the idea as fast as I can.

[geraintm]

When they thibk best. Not when others pressure them into doing it. It isnt just lynch or lose today, it is also tomorrow

[geraintm]

I don't get mass claim, I really don't. We get townie *4 plus a role. That role might well be counter claimed. How does it clear a bunch of us?
It ends up scum know who to kill tonight.

[geraintm]

VOTE: jmo16mla - not random.

First he asked whether or not I had replaced out. Might mean he was worried about a longtime IC, but moreso it shows a lack of attention paid. When I replied, he said he would "run away" rather than be lynched.

a

I've got a lot of pages to go through and I'll pick out the things I want to, am on an iPad and think this is going to end up in multiple, multiple posts rather than in one, so sorry for post counting.
First, noting this, think it will be important later

[geraintm]

I disagree Number. I see Flay's Attack on jmo being null.

My only real concern right now is that they could be scum distancing from each other.

Post 56 and this, like them

[geraintm]

Jmo has not been scumhunting at all this game, and he's not taking any stances on anything.

Flay, although I was not sure if it was just a miscount of the votes early on that made you put Jmo to L-1, your subsequent play has read town to me.

Just want to note these comments

[geraintm]

I like this Mindgamer kid. Will reread tonight and may consider a vote switch (I believe TAM is at 3 right now, unless zakk has switched).

This style of posting comes up a lot from flay, the whole "woe is me, it is such a burden to move my vote, but I'll have a good think about it and then I'll do it.

[geraintm]

ISO is lazy, though. You seem to be going through the motions rather than actually scumhunting, and you are STILL selectively answering questions. Very reactive, very scummy.

I like this Mindgamer kid. Will reread tonight and may consider a vote switch (I believe TAM is at 3 right now, unless zakk has switched).

I really hate drawing scum

With a passion

I think that game is good reading, particularly notsci's ISO. It's a ton of tiny posts and not much scumhunting.

Contrasted with his Town replacement play in NG 1382 I'm comfortable with my vote for right now. Only thing giving me pause is he said he would be somewhat limited on access due to the laptop thing.

notsci is that fixed yet??

Comfortable with my vote where it is for now, but would switch to TAM to avoid a No Lynch. Everyone who hasn't already should post their top two suspects (three if absolutely needed), WITH REASONS. Full lists are not needed on D1.

This screams a terrible post to me. Why bring up a no lynch as an excuse to move a vote? No need yet. I can't see him giving reasons to vote tam, but he'll lynch him, and then wants everyone else to post long thoughts on everyone.

[geraintm]

Unvote
Vote: TAM

While my suspicions on Jmo aren't gone, time is running short and my vote wasn't going to get anywhere.

Between notscience and TAM, I'm less suspicious of notscience. While his responses haven't been particularly good, I find the reasoning behind the votes on him isn't that solid. Mindgamer brings up some good points on TAM, and the fact that he's voting me isn't helping either.

Got to pull this one for similar reasons to flay, just using no lynch as an excuse to vote for someone.

[geraintm]

Okay, I'm willing to give you D1/N1 to change it up now that your computer is restored. UNVOTE: notscience

TAM has been astonishingly silent against his critics since yesterday morning, and we have three days left. VOTE: The Acting Method - that is L-1. Post or perish.

Ok, I don't think tam had been silent. A post within the last day isn't silent. Even if flay only thought he was pushing him to l-1, he knew tam was going to end up dead. To me, it feels like flay piggy backed onto some sort of wagon very easily, after appearing to hesitate as long as possible.

[geraintm]

Flay is likely town Mindgamer, I don't think flay is going anywhere anytime soon.

Wtf? I can see no reason in game for jmo to say this.

[geraintm]

Flay is likely town Mindgamer, I don't think flay is going anywhere anytime soon.

Well, we should get this game going.

vote: Fart Bane

Among the survivors, he is the most suspicious to me, for a lack of posting and for his strange vote on notscience. On a slightly unrelated not, I also agree that unless both Flay's vote was accidental.

Ok, this is a vote for me. And gives flay a townie vote, grrrr.

[geraintm]

I'm going to townbloc becasue scumhunting isn't cutting it this game.

Thus far-

Me, Mindgamer

Ok. Never seen this town block in a game before. I am rusty.
But what?unless not science knew something really big he should not have done this. And he was vanilla. The fact he spotted the doc is neither here no there

[geraintm]

Well, we should get this game going.

vote: Fart Bane

Among the survivors, he is the most suspicious to me, for a lack of posting and for his strange vote on notscience. On a slightly unrelated not, I also agree that unless both Flay's vote was accidental.

This is far too easy.

VOTE: number_0ne
lack of posting? you've got 13 hes got 31... not seeing it.

That was a quick vote over not much.

[geraintm]

I didn't think that was lynch. Did you feel my FLAY was faked?

TAM not participating kinda sounds like why I called him out for being scum right?

Typically, scum won't continue to lurk if get called out on it and get voted up. Hence, me calling him more than likely town.

Would your case be completely different had TAM flipped scum?

I'm almost guaranteeing there was at least one scum on TAM's wagon. Cut out me, and flay(who I wasn't sucking up to I just have a town read on him)

Why flay? Why is jmo giving flay a town pass? He lynched him!

[geraintm]

jmo, I don't like the number vote. Feels newbtown to me.

Oh I'm an idiot.

between editing that post I left my vote in there.

UNVOTE:

Hmmm....

[geraintm]

Okay, so reread of the first 200. zakk and TAM are the confTown. zakk was voting TAM, so that only leaves jmo16mla, Mindgamer, Number_0ne, and Mr. Flay on the wagon. notsci and The-Duck explicitly Town-read him; both make me itchy. Fart Bane ignored the matter almost entirely, but in what seems a genuine way (he was pretty tunneled on notsci). Nobody really backed off, except jmo16mla's odd postlynch regret which still reads as townish. I also think jmo16mla's 2nd vote on TAM (#146) looks very genuine for the stage of the game it was in. Mindgamer's also been pretty consistently aggressive so far, so coming in with a wagon-evening vote doesn't really rub me the wrong way.

N1's jump on the TAM wagon though (#159) is pretty suspicious, as he leaves himself plenty of outs for notsci to be scum instead. I'll laugh if I called it in the very next post:

if only one of them is scum, now is the time when we'll start to see pressure to lynch the other from his buddy...

Oh, and The-Duck's townread of TAM was #158. Neat.

On the gripping hand, The-Duck immediately addresses my #160 in #161, though he then accuses jmo16mla of doing the same thing with notsci, twice. Doubt those two are scum together.

Number_One on the other hand was VERY quick to notice that we'd achieved lynch when I blundered. Not a scumtell in and of itself given the late stage of D1, but his vote switch relies heavily on Mindgamer's case, not his own, and he basically switched off of jmo16mla because "it wasn't going anywhere" (#159). Yet when the TAM lynch goes sour, D2 he comes in and goes after... Fart Bane? The lurker?

And as was already pointed out, he didn't announce that we were at L-1 despite it being mentioned several times in earlier pages. Sloppy? He seems precise otherwise...

VOTE: Number_One
[doublechecks the ^$#$^& count]

Things to dislike. Complaining that number 1 switched vote because his old vote wasn't going anywhere, when flay did the same thing.

Lots of nice things said about jmo

[geraintm]

jmo and flay do you want in the townbloc

Argh, townblock again.

[geraintm]

Post 181 from jmo
Calls out the doc for his style of choosing votes.thats tyle is the same as someone else...

[geraintm]

Post 315. Flay slowly building up to a vote...

[geraintm]

Well, time's running short.

Vote: notscience

This,this is so sucky

[geraintm]

Did that are sense to people?
I so dislike flay post 315. The guy lynched day one, intended to lynch day 2. Was happy to join others wagons. Dislike dislike dislike.
Assuming flay is scum, jmo then gives me the bad vibes too. The way he interacts with flay, just gives me all the wrong vibes.

[geraintm]

2 people think I am most scummy. Curious why. Gotta give me something to go on.

[geraintm]

Not sure how to reply to "it isn't you, it is the other guy"

Sorry for spam, quoting posts on an ipad is not easy and seems much easier to do it over multiple posts. I realise reads horrible, can't bebhelped.

[geraintm]

@flay. Nothing but quote marks? Each quote came with comments. I accuse you of being scum. I suggest jmo is also scum. I spent the day before arguing against mass claim. If we weren't at lynch or lose, I would have voted for you already.
Bit.more tham just some quotes....

[geraintm]

@ flay - yep 441 is a summary.

@jmo flay a little less? You wanted to hammer yesterday.

I want to vote flay. Will do so unless someone gives me a good reason to not do so.

[geraintm]

I'm lynching the fuck out of flay tomorrow.

This ^^^

If I was trying to draw out a power role, don't you think I'd have gone along with the claim?

[geraintm]

Misspoke, meant lynch aggresivly and not hammer. Forget that the word hammer means something in mafia

[geraintm]

There are only 4 people. I think 2 of you ae scum. Don't need much more of a list than that. Waiting for duck now.
No idea why others have different reads.
Considering I am a post from duck away from voting for you, you seem very calm

[geraintm]

@ duck. I was waiting for you to post to make sure you didnt say "Don't vote for flay because...."
You haven't

Thus

vote Mr. Flay [\b]

[geraintm]

vote mr flay

[geraintm]

Gone to bed, wake up and no posts of importance.
See no reason to move vote.

[geraintm]

Assuming on other claim,then yeah jmo is town.
I think 75% town is pushing high. If no claim, then you are 100% scum.
Jmo - town
Me - town
If you were town, then both duck and number one are scum and they would have voted for you to get the win to go withmy wrong vote.

As that isn't happening, I am 100% confident I have caught scum.

I realise that to everyone else you aren't all 100% sure I am town. Jmo's tracking should cause you doubts, I would be disappointed if you didn't doubtme, but there will be a huge case of I told you so later.

[geraintm]

Yes jmo, I could be scum. Fortunately for me, I know I am town so working out flay is scum is pretty easy if there is no counter claim to you.
Assuming no counter claim, then jmo, duck and number 1 have to decide who is more likely to be scum, me or flay. If there is no counterclaim, then one of us has to be. I am happy that the pressure is off me and you all have to decide.
Oh, and those voting for flay don't automatically become townies, there is every incentive for a scum to vote his buddy off if he is going to go.

[geraintm]

Flay, I am fairly certain you are now just trying to confuse people.
The other players need to work out a matrix of the 5 of us, start putting in people into roles and see how likely they think the outcomes are.

Assuming there is no counterclaim - that is my assumption now and that means jmo is confirmed town, jmo, number 1 and duck need to role play what happens if various people are scum or not, and see if they believe how it comes out.
I've done it myself, putting in me as town, jmo as town and flay as scum, others need to do so too.

People need to ignore what others are trying to say to confuse you (brining up scum day talk is terrible. To me it just straight up confirms you are scum, no townie would be considering scum day talk, the only person who would be is a caught scum who is desperately thinking of ways to give advice to his partner) just work it out yourself.

[geraintm]

Game is stalled waiting for number 1 and duck to contribute properly. I hope jmo has thought about what he does when those 2 come back, neither counterclaim and he has to think about if he thinks me or flay are scum.

[geraintm]

Ok, number one has not claimed. Jmo is town ( and being night killed tonight, you know that right)
Also, no one has jumped onto the vote, which is what would have happened if neither me or flay was scum.
(I know flay is trying to say that scum would wait till they are both online at the same time to stop the prospect of one voting and then me unvoting, but that is just a likely scenario. I have repeatedly said I am 100% sure flay is scum).
So,one of me or flay is scum, I hope no one disagrees with that. If they do, they really need to say why.

Jmo, I think you are already leaning one way based on the posts of today... Am I right?

[geraintm]

I hope btw post 402 - flay calling for a mass claim - is further evidence of him just being bad today. In itself, it might not look terrible (thoug it was) but when the main person for suspicion was the person calling to out the power rule it just looks so, so bad (to me)

[geraintm]

Oh, if me and flay are scum partners and we are pulling off this mega play, then town is upper the creek already. Town has had no success so far in this game and is in back to back lynch or lose, so if scum had planned this then town is doomed.
But, scum were so far ahead in this game - and if scum don't win this they will be kicking themselves - they had no need to run one pushing the other. And there could have been a guilty cop verdict hidden to ruin it too.
Jmo, if you are considering me and flay as partners, then go through what would have had to happen for this to have worked for us.
It involved one of us calling for a mass claim, then his partner disagreeing, then one of them voting for the other and asking if there was a cop out there to come forward if he shouldn't vote, all the while if the cop had a guilty verdict on one of them the whole thing falls apart.
Am rambling. Just jmo ( and everyone else) please discount me and flay as partners. One of us is scum, I know who it is, you all just need to see the posts and agree with me.

[geraintm]

Flay's post

1st paragraph is attempts at confusion. I repeat from earlier, only scum would be thinking about scum day takk

2nd meh

3rd - disappointed he hasnt tried to make any case against me and is instead tryingy to confuse people about the next day. Amd as he is scum, all his thoughtsare worthless.

[geraintm]

If duck is town then the game is over.
Quick post

Sorry dismissing us both being scum. Priblem is I know I am not.scum so I know I am not bussing him

When I started my case against flay, I had no idea of the role, if it was tracker or cop.

Sorry for not looking at anyone elae besides flay right now. Finsing the second scum waits till tomorrow.

In my read of the game, I spotted flay as scum and said I thought jmo was likwly his partner. Jmo was too close. That has turned our to be because jmo half cleaeed flay.

[geraintm]

Duck, I would say you need to present evidence I am scum partner with number 1, but either you are town and we are about to lose, or you are scum and wont be able to find the evidence

[geraintm]

I hope number 1 turns up now before jmo. If he does and he is town, then he knows duck making him scum means he has to vote flay.
If jmo is the next to arrive, he has to think if he believes a number 1 me team as scum is more likely than one involving flay

And I cant type for toffee on my phone with a 3 year old on my lap

[geraintm]

Oh, by the way all, duck was also, like flay, in favourdof the mass claim

[geraintm]

Quick post. Jmo and numbrr 1.

Please done vote till the other one also posts in the thread. If it ends up nunber 1 is town, tehn you ahould both wait rill the other posts and doesnt vote.
If you both dont hammer, then you are both confirmed townies and you 2 have to work out which out of me duck and flay is the other town.

[geraintm]

If you are not scum with Number, why would you only want my opinion on flay before voting him?
I say that has to be because you needed another townie on your wagon of flay, and Jmo already stated that his "lynching the fuck out of flay tomorrow" was to keep them both alive.

After you asked for my opinion before flay, I responded with stating that I wanted you to not vote and expand on your case. You did the opposite, you voted and ignored my request. My best guess is, that you have no real case, only flay's cautiousness after D1.
If you find that so scummy, please go find some (recent) scumgames from flay in which he exhibits this same behaviour, and if possible, some recent towngames where he doesn't.

Do you mean post 452, where I am waiting for your opinion on flay? I was no longer waiting for number 1 as he had posted in 449.

I had already made my case, I specifically sat there and asked everyone to post and tell me if there was a good reason I should not vote for flay. This was me very bluntly saying I have no power role and wanted a cop to come forward if they had an innocent on flay. As all of jmo, number 1 and yourself had posted and not claimed an innocent hit on fly, this was my permission to go ahead.

[geraintm]

just because you ask nicely
UNVOTE: Geraintm

By the way Geraintm, it wouldn't have confirmed Number to be town if I had let my vote stay and he didn't hammer.All that would indicate is that you and him are of the same alignment, he becomes confirmed town for you, not for Jmo, Flay or me.

You forget I know I am town, so if he is the same as me, that makes him town too

[geraintm]

Sorry I haven't been participating much. I might even end up replacing out, but hopefully not.

I don't think that scum would go and try to bus each other to start. However, scum does get lynched, I'd find it likely that the hammer could be scum bussing.

As for scum day talk, the sample role PMs specifically state that it's night chat only. I think it was just more of town not thinking things through. Scum couldn't be unsure about daytalk, and even if they were, why would they wait until day 3 to ask about it?

@the duck

I can't see Geraintm being scum with Flay. If that was the case, why would they need to make a big play today? Flay was most town on both of our lists.

And my not hammering means nothing about my alignment.

@Geraintm

Present evidence? This is mafia. Unless you're a PR you won't get evidence. Him not having evidence isn't indicative of his alignment.

And what was wrong with a mass claim? It increases our odds of getting through today. Hiding the PR isn't any useful if it doesn't get to the night.

Massclaiming in that case only hurts scum.

@jmo

Do you believe that Geraintm is scum?

Glad you agree that me and flay being buddies is by far the most unlikely scenario going.

Evidence- I don't have any evidence. I am not a power role.
What I did was replace into this game and spend a long night reading and rereading. I got a massive scummy vibe from flay. Like the most serious one in a game I've been in, and if you go read my summaries from my other games you'll see me admit I am normally bad at scum hunting.
I also picked up that jmo had strong links to flay. I am quiet proud I picked this up, I thought it was scum buddies but instead it was a tracker getting a null result.

Why I said I didn't want a mass claim.
Because all it takes is a counterclaim and town has to try and pick which is right, so that is a 50/50 and I thought, considering how bad town has been in this game at spotting scum, we weren't going to get that right.
What I hoped would happen was that there was a hidden power role who would know some people being innocent. Then, if a wagon formed on someone they knew to be innocent, they could claim at a better time. But best of all, we would vote mafia today without the role having to come forward and they could use their role again tonight.
With the mass claim, I would like to point out to people that it was flay who brought it up. People who think I am scum need to think why I as scum would be so against everyone claiming.

[geraintm]

So, number one and the duck arent scum together. cool.

No, they werent . Only One of me or flay is scum (discounting the highly, highly improbable me and flay are both scum). There is no way neither of us are both town. If that was the case, whilst I was voting for flay and flay voting for me, they just both vote for one of us and win.

Jmo, you are going to have to work out which one of me and flay is scum, and then tomorrow the three people left are going to have to decide who out of duck and number 1 is scum.

( I put that scenario forward btw, because if we get to the next day and flay is dead, they will nightkill you and leave me duck and number 1 alive)

[geraintm]

People who think I am scum need to think why I as scum would be so against everyone claiming.

You're not reading - it's to avoid what happened with clearing people!

A masclaim would do the exact opposite of clearing people, because scum would counter claim.

[geraintm]

possible scum teams.

Flay-Ger
Flay-number 0ne
Flay-theduck

Ger-number0ne
Ger-theduck
Ger-flay

Number0ne-Flay
Number0ne-Ger

Theduck-flay
Theduck-Ger

WOO

Some of these are duplicates.
For you, you only have to worry about

Flay - duck
Flay - number 1
Geraint - duck
Geraint - number 1

(And flay -Geraint but please discount that)
We can discount the duck - number 1 option

[geraintm]

Sorry jmo

Ok, going to go through flays 517 post now
Paragraph a - him dismissing me and him as partners. Surprisingly I agree

Paragraph b -why have I given number 1 a pass after my initial read. Well, I had come to the conclusion flay was scum. I leaned towards jmo as his buddy. But actively finding the other scum was not important. We have to lynch correctly today, and voting/chat/something from the power role would likely identify the other scum.

Paragraph c - this is terrible. Why on earth is he going on about rethinking scum pairing and including duck/number 1. Post 514 had proved they were not a possible scum pair.
I don't get get what post 447 has to do with jmos eventual claim which was in 463.

The working. I don't follow the maths. I would like to point out though that it is irrelevant, if the reason I am top scum is because scum have voted me too...
Next is flays case againstme.
I can't reply to the first 7
I did tin my very first post make a case against anyone. I knew I didn't have time, but I felt it rude to not come and say hello and flag up that I would have something to co elater.

9 - not sure what to say. I think mass claiming is useless. There was only one person who had anything to claim, everyone else goes "hey, I am vanilla townie". If they had something useful to say then they can say it, I want the to decide not be forced into it by someone else. Wait, this is exactly what jmo ends up saying. In post 432.
10 - I'd point out 464 where you can be seen as coaching your partner to obviously not counterclaim.

Going to post this now so I don't lose it All.

[geraintm]

11- I was I admit thinking jmo was your buddy. I had during my read found that jmo was awfully close to you in a non obvious way. I thought this was because you and him were a team, I would not have expected jmo to have tracked you and not got any evidence.
12- totally agree
13- post 447 is me explaining to jmo my post 444 where I said I thought he wanted to hammer flay the next dAy. He was confused becUse he hadn't wanted to hammer flay, he had wanted to lynch flay. So if you read 448, you see me saying I got my terminology mixed up between hammer and lynch. This whole part was me confused, jmo had said at the end of the previous day he wanted to lynch flay yet the next day, he has flay as more trusted than me. This was part of the reason I had jmo as flays buddy, he was saying one thing (omg, I want to lynch flay) and then later saying he trusted flay.
14- I had waited for number 1 post 449. He had posted and not given a reason to not vote for flay

Think that is allo need to say.
Hard to argue against a scum, but it hope people see that flay is brining things up and I have answered them as best I can, pointing out where I am being consistent.
If anyone else has things to ask me, please do. I'll do my best to answer them, time wise right nowis nearly 9pm Sunday, during the day tomorrow i'llbe on my phone so expect short posts

[geraintm]

Quick reply

It does prove they are not together. If they were buddies, he never would have invited, and lynched with yours, his and his partner.

Part 2 - I didn't bother following the maths because it is irrelevant, nearly everyone voting is scum and so voting wrong. It isn't shocking that I come top of the lists if I am town, as scum are just not going to point the finger at themselves.
I find this whole thing a waste of time discussing, things have moved on well past scum lists to the point now where people have to decide between me and you.

Will write more
But this is pointless, I can't keep arguing with flay (for the rest of you, this is true, you are just watching a scum and townie shouting at each other) Jmo, duck and number 1 need to contribute.

[geraintm]

Re post 535.

If duck and number one are partners, this is what happens

You vote me
One of them joins you - this was duck.
Duck waits for his scum buddy to post, vote me and they win.

All duck needs to do is wait for number one to vote and they win. He just waits and waits.
That is how a duck number 1 partnership wins.
I am finding it difficult to understand how you cannot see this.

[geraintm]

Nearly everyone - sorry, misspoke, should have said near half of those voting. Sorry

[geraintm]

About part 3 of flays 532-
He seems convinced I would think I would have jmo on my side to lynch him quick
I am going to go through my interactions with jmo and see if this is the case

Post 412 - this is me highlighting early on in my summary that I think flay and jmo are linked.
Post 414 - me pointing out again I think flay and jmo are linked in their voting
Post 419 - I actually spotted jmos hint about his night action and how weird a post it was! I also called jmo out omit, saying I couldn't understand jmo saying this. This was one of my reads where I found jmo's relationship with flay to be really, really odd. As in scum buddy odd.
Post 442 - me sayingi thought jmo's post looked scummy
Post 423 - me again saying jmo and flay are behaving really oddly between each other. I was from my read through saying jmo and flay were scum buddies.
Post 426 - me saying flay was buddying up to jmo, consistent with me thinking the pair were buddies
Post 428 - me criticizing jmo for complaining about the doctor's style of choosing votes whichever as actually the same as flays, who is believed was his buddy.
Post 431 - my summary. I say I believe flay is scum, and then saying if flay is scum I think jmo is too.

Flay has now spent today saying he believes that I thought I could have quickly got jmo to join me in lynching flay.
In fact, my summary of the game had lead me to believe out of everyone in the game, jmo would be the person least likely to vote for flay.

Flay has been trying to say the exact opposite all today about my relationship with jmo.

I hope this post by post recap of me thoughts on jmo show that flay has not just been misreseprent my thoughts on jmo, he has actively been saying the opposite. Jmo and then duck/number one, I hope you look at this and come to a conclusion about which of me and flay is most likely scum.

If I am scum as flay suggests, I would have had to enter the game as a new player as scum,decide to instead of letting this town which so far has had no success in picking scum to flail around,instead actively put myself front and center after not advocating a masclaim and instead make a case against someone else, knowing that there is a power role out there that could screw me over.
This after a newbie scum decides to leave the game, right at the point where he is entering a new night. I am not sure about any of you, but brand new players are unlikely to quit the game ass cum when they are so close to winning, it goes against everything I know about new payers. You join this game to be scum and kill people at night. He was doing this very successfully, not far off winning, and instead leaves. I am adding this in over and above my case against flay as a sort of character study of the player who previously playedme.

Jmo, duck/number one, you need to start posting more. 2 of you are town, you need as townies to post more. Townies are not being good townies if they are not posting.

[geraintm]

Duck and number 1 - from what I have read in the setup, you are both new players.
I know one of you is town.
I cannot stress enough that in this situation, where the game is very delicately poised, you have to pay attention. This sort of situation will be common in future games, where you have to reread a game and read the competing claims of two sides and make a choice who to vote for.
It will take some time, but this is actually the fun part, knowing that your decision is going to be vital to the end game. You have to put in the effort now. Out of everything else you take away from your first game, working out how to process the end game will be one of the most important. Partly why newbie games are so small, you get to the difficult end states quicker.
Please, whichever of you is town, have a read. I hope jmo and flay would agree with this general advice that you can't just not participate right now.

[geraintm]

Ok, quick post. To apologise to town for being a horrible, horrible replacement.
No idea why today went on as long as it did though.

Will post more later, about 12 hours time.

[geraintm]

Some quick thoughts on the game.

Sorry flay, you did really come across as scum from when I read through.
Not sure how the day would have gone differently if I hadn't acted as I did.
If I had sat back on my thought that flay (and jmo) were iffy, what would have happened? Would either of duck or number one done something scummy enough in the day to get me to vote for them?

What would have happened if there was a mass claim? If jmo had come out clean, flay was going to have had to have been really, really persuasive to again not get me to vote for him.if there had been a counter claim, then ugh...

I genuinely think that the power role coming out right then wouldn't have done much to help town, so easily gone pear shaped. Surprised the scum thread didn't mention what to do about claims.

Tracker was useless btw...
Is it always that useless.

I would say new players shouldn't lurk so much in games, but as the two lurking the most won what do I know hope you won't let it happen in other games. Problem was you didn't suddenly switch between silence and chatter which is often something that arouses my suspicion.
Anyways, sorry for just getting such a terrible read on the game.

[geraintm]

In a short game like this, just felt like only clearing a person 50% didn't really help that much.

Forgot to say thanks all for the game. First game after a long break, was nice to have that "has anyone posted overnight" feeling again