Shadow's terminally happy Newbie 1451 game over,mod exploded

[goodmorning]

Hello all, I am your lovely IC. I am expected to help you learn to play the game, particularly in the context of this forum. Towards the pursuit of that goal, I will answer all your theory questions truthfully.

That's right,

I will not lie to you

about theory.

Now, you may be thinking "no fair, she's got more experience, clearly she will pwn newbs". That's only somewhat true. Some newbies have played many a game of Mafia elsewhere. Besides this, experience counts against me as well: you all are able to look up my past games and see how I've played in them. I can't because most of you don't have any. So it's a fairly even split.

Some helpful Wiki pages:
Quick Guide to Mafia
Quick Guide to Mafiascum
A Beginner's Guide to Being Awesome At Mafia

And some terms:
Glossary
Commonly Used Abbreviations

OBLIGATORY IC POST OVER
FUCK HELPFUL TAG TIME

HEY GOODMORNING WHAT'S UP?

IDEK, HBU

or something

IS THAT HOW THE KIDS TALK THESE DAYS

weird that ed didn't mention your modding of 1436

if votes counted i'd totes be voting mollie

hiiii mollie

also i am v/la today and probably tomorrow too, so

[goodmorning]

I can already tell this is going to be one classy game.

[goodmorning]

Curiouser and curiouser.

Vote: Tier

Call it a hunch.

[goodmorning]

GM has a point.

Vote: Tier

May I ask what point that is?

Why ask Huntress and not me?

All I meant is that Rothwell seems to be around, which makes me wonder if he's following the thread but not posting for some reason.

I don't really have much to input, and I don't fancy random lynching as everyone seems to have done so have just observed.

Here's a little advice: when a game's just started and I'm not familiar with any of the players, I sometimes look for things that seem odd somehow and point them out.

And the more eyes out, the better.

I have a few thoughts but I'm going to keep them under my hat for now.

[goodmorning]

I was speaking hypothetically.

[goodmorning]

then what was your point

My point was that he doesn't know anyone and that might be a way that works for him.

Soooo.
I know this is really early, but I think Huntress is town. Like I think I'm really, really sure.

How sure is really sure, on a scale of ("hey i just met you") 1-to10 (Innocent Child)?

gm is a top notch player she is setting up early game play so she doesn't have to

Doesn't have to...?

she looks nervous, tentative and drops off. <----scum

Sorry I'm not, I guess? And what do you mean, "drops off"?

Probably I should say this better. "I" and "C" are two letters which can directly and/or indirectly influence the thought processes of newbs, whether consciously or not.
Normally, I don't care overmuch about this.
Normally, I have better than gut by now and the newbies have posted more.
Make of that what you will.

[goodmorning]

Someone is buddying me halp

This is possibly the most entertaining post thus far this game.

As to your previous questions, there are very good reasons for me to hang back for now. I did it in N1305 in an attempt to get evidence for my scumread, for instance, but I think I said what I'm going for here best in N1402:

@GM, NS, and Scar (in order of importance, least to greatest)
Why didn't you guys try to make content out of your recent posts? Page 1 fluff can lead to page 2 fluff which can lead to long, drawn out games.

Mainly because literally you, me and notsci are the only ones who've posted anything more than "Vote: x; insert silly reason here". I want to see what the newbies have got to say for themselves rather than drop ideas that might be sheeped.

@DC: Do you have any reads so far? Anything you've seen that looks off?

[goodmorning]

Sorry for double post.

Double posts are fine. Some people like to string out replies rather than put them into one post.

I think I said what I'm going for here best in N1402:

@GM, NS, and Scar (in order of importance, least to greatest)
Why didn't you guys try to make content out of your recent posts? Page 1 fluff can lead to page 2 fluff which can lead to long, drawn out games.

Mainly because literally you, me and notsci are the only ones who've posted anything more than "Vote: x; insert silly reason here". I want to see what the newbies have got to say for themselves rather than drop ideas that might be sheeped.

This actually makes sense. I do think it's reasonable to expect you to actively join discussion later on.

Absolutely. I anticipate the game being up to speed at some point within the next 3-5 RL days. Hopefully it's sooner, but I doubt it, because...

I'm not really happy with the activity of the other newbies next to me and d_cobbz, how should we pressure them to join discussion? Vote for them?

I'm not happy with it either. Pressure votes have been known to work with varying levels of effectiveness depending on the player. I'm not massively into them though because sometimes the guy you're trying to pressure just isn't there and that takes away votes from places where they're providing information.
Honestly I'm not very good at/have no good concept as to how to start stimulating discussion. I've been got after for it before.

IC stuff

A good rule of thumb is that if your slot has less posts than the mod by p3, you really really need to post more. If your slot is one of the three least-posting living players, you should probably post more. If you have a few more posts than everyone else, posting more is advisable.
If your slot has 100+ more posts than everyone else, that's pretty much the only time it's acceptable to back off a bit.

And always be sure you're posting content rather than fluff. If you don't have anything game-relevant to say, find something game-relevant to say.
/rant

And I must say I'm not very happy with dc's activity levels either, seeing as most of his posts are too short to provide much analysable content (see last line of IC box).

His most recent vote is certainly interesting though.

[goodmorning]

After being looked at suspiciously for agreeing with you so much, he comes back and agrees with you again.

It's definitely worth another look later.

[goodmorning]

Skip to next vote count.

I don't have any solid scumreads atm and I'd rather place my vote where it can do some work. Also, lynch all lurkers!

LaL? I LOL'd.

goodmorning:
Is there a reason she's being so vague?

Yes.

@goodmorning: Did the recent exchange between tiershift and d_cobbz confirm or refute your hunch in any way?

Yes.


OK, I'm teasing. There was no hunch. I just wanted people to talk about it. Sort of a reaction test.
That said, their interactions have given me a few ideas, as has Huntress' comment on it...

[goodmorning]

Vote: emerald

I'll explain this later.

[goodmorning]

Compare this

Questions for everyone:
@everyone: what is going on between tiershift and d_cobbz?
@d_cobbz: please provide an opinion about something.
@tiershift: does anyone else seem scummy to you besides goodmorning? Does anyone seem towny?
@goodmorning: Did the recent exchange between tiershift and d_cobbz confirm or refute your hunch in any way?
@Neater Plastic: you seem to think malakittens is town. She seems to think your read on mollie is wrong (#72). What do you think about that? Was moving your vote off huntress partially based on malakittens's read?
@Rothwell: Can you give me a reason not to lynch you?
@Huntress: Why do you think Mala has such a strong townread on you so soon? Does it seem suspicious at all?

to this one from N1308

Some thoughts I'd like to get:
goodmorning ~ Do you still have the same read about emcee as you did in #15 ?
Emcee ~ what makes you "proud town" as opposed to town? You're being voted for at the moment and at least one person thinks you're suspicious. Shouldn't that make you "nervous town"?
Proteus ~ Did you find out anything about emcee as a player? What about Tracey?
Human ~ first post in the thread but quiet since. Care to join in? Are you hiding?
TripleD ~ Are hugs part of your game style, are you like Bruce Willis' character in Unbreakable who can see flashes of people he touches? More seriously, what do you make of yourself as the most experienced player here being the recipient of the first RVS going round?

and this one from N1296.

@A_Stone
Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@Blastoide
Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@goodmorning
If it was Night right now, what do you think the best course of action for scum would be? I know this is an odd line of questioning, but I would like to see your thought process regarding this.
@kibbles
What kind of information do you think is the most valuable to the town? What kind of questions would help get this information?
@Skylark
Have you determined anything about Uber yet? Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion?
@Z-BosoN
Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@zabriel
What is it that caused you to vote for Skylark?

I will explain more than this even later.

[goodmorning]

I'm not referring to the act of questioning itself.

[goodmorning]

I'm not referring to the act of questioning itself.

What are you referring to, you got us all on the edge of our seats! The fact that the other quotes were said by scum and that they asked questions to players doesn't seem too strong a connection? Basically just what mala said in response.

I am referring to the type of question and the depth thereof.

[goodmorning]

Let me make a more thorough comparison here.

[spoiler="Look how bad the lurkers look," said Captain Obvious.]

emerald:
@Rothwell: Can you give me a reason not to lynch you?
@d_cobbz: please provide an opinion about something.

Zai:
@A_Stone: Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@Blastoide: Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@Z-BosoN: Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?

SD:
Human ~ first post in the thread but quiet since. Care to join in? Are you hiding?

[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Do you have any reads?"/also reads as pertain to voting]

@tiershift: does anyone else seem scummy to you besides goodmorning? Does anyone seem towny?
@Neater Plastic: you seem to think malakittens is town. She seems to think your read on mollie is wrong (#72). What do you think about that? Was moving your vote off huntress partially based on malakittens's read?
@Huntress: Why do you think Mala has such a strong townread on you so soon? Does it seem suspicious at all?

@Skylark: Have you determined anything about Uber yet? Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion?
@zabriel: What is it that caused you to vote for Skylark?

goodmorning ~ Do you still have the same read about emcee as you did in #15 ?
Proteus ~ Did you find out anything about emcee as a player? What about Tracey?
TripleD ~ Are hugs part of your game style, are you like Bruce Willis' character in Unbreakable who can see flashes of people he touches? More seriously, what do you make of yourself as the most experienced player here being the recipient of the first RVS going round?

[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Did your reaction test work?"/"Did/is someone else's work/ing on you?"]

@everyone: what is going on between tiershift and d_cobbz?
@goodmorning: Did the recent exchange between tiershift and d_cobbz confirm or refute your hunch in any way?
@Huntress: Why do you think Mala has such a strong townread on you so soon? Does it seem suspicious at all?

Emcee ~ what makes you "proud town" as opposed to town? You're being voted for at the moment and at least one person thinks you're suspicious. Shouldn't that make you "nervous town"?

[/spoiler]

Spoiler: Completely Useless Theory Questions*

@goodmorning: If it was Night right now, what do you think the best course of action for scum would be? I know this is an odd line of questioning, but I would like to see your thought process regarding this.
@kibbles: What kind of information do you think is the most valuable to the town? What kind of questions would help get this information?

*emerald has none of these, but included for the sake of completeness

Most of Mala's ER questions fit into none of these categories, with the exception of the question to Dr Doolittle (who do you find scummy, category 2).
Coincidentally this is the least Scum-indicative category, as Town may well need to poke other players into contributing game-relevant information (though because it's a pro-Town action that's easy to fake, Scum has just as much reason to do it as Town does).

P-EDIT: It would be interesting if I were, but this analysis was pretty useful to me in N1308.
I briefly mentioned this in N1351:

If anyone is curious, I have

actual basis

(!) for playstyle comparisons. It netted me scum here, where I compared SafetyDance to a different player I was familiar with, Zaicon. Some people just play very similarly. (And this is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about foundational play, though in this case I was able to pick out a specific thing: types of questioning.)

Basically SD and Zai have similar playstyles to each other and to what I think emerald has/is developing as well. Your playstyle is a bit different.

[goodmorning]

I really loved that style of cases. I should do those again.

[goodmorning]

I did one in N1426 too but my one on you in O524 was better.

[goodmorning]

GM, your case so far is that emeraldemon has asked some not very in-depth questions to every player? Wouldn't there be examples of this being done by town players?

It's not impossible, but this isn't only about the questions but also the type of player that's asking them.

[goodmorning]

I'm working on your previous post and will be doing ISOs after, but to answer that simply and currently: nothing yet on Mala, vague badfeels on Huntress but nothing concrete, I don't think.

Why?

[goodmorning]

I see.

I think it might be necessary for me to point out that I'm actually not familiar with Huntress.
mollie and I have I think three or four shared games, Mala and I have probably about the same, plus we've modded for each other.

My question here, and it's more rhetorical than anything else: Does Mala have with Huntress what I have with Zai, Safety, even ppp? like Cabd has with TIP? like I have with Guy? or is it more like what kuribo has with DGB? in between? Does it even exist?

And I know that's a lot of namedropping but basically what I'm trying to say is I don't know whether it's playstyle synergy, really good meta, a fairly strong tell, or just lots of experience with each other, or something in between.
I'm willing to believe it exists, because it does happen and it destroys your credibility if you claim it wrongly one too many times.

[goodmorning]

also re: playstyle

playstyle is not a scumtell.

Who said it was?

[goodmorning]

They are, but it's kinda hard to do them with the site like this and I may chop the ISOs temporarily in favour of the other.

[goodmorning]

I'm still working on it all, it's taking me slightly longer than expected.

[goodmorning]

I'm still working on it all, it's taking me slightly longer than expected.

You going to stall it out like in DP. (<3)

god i hope not

i'll definitely get it faster than shadows and lights tho

@All experienced players: how do you feel about lynching lurkers? GM made fun of me for saying LaL, so that got me really wondering. This his how I feel about it: on the one hand, lynching them doesn't give much information about the rest of the players, but neither does having them in the game. On the other hand, especially if they are scum, lynching other players won't give information about them. Do you think policy lynching is wrong?

Lynching ALL lurkers is definitely a silly proposition.
That said, there is a time and a place for policy lynching lurkers.
THAT said, the smaller the game is the worse a mistake can fuck you up. So policy lynches have to be considered very carefully in a game this size.
As for Roth specifically, I don't think a policy lynch is appropriate at this time. Depends what he does later in the day.

[goodmorning]

Which outstanding questions do you still have for me?

It's not surprising people are inactive; it's a weekend.

[goodmorning]

[site question: I have seen some posts where people say "I can see that you're looking at the site" or similar. Where is that? I don't see a list of "users online" or anything]

It also can be a way of avoiding talking about ongoing games (for instance, X is in 2 comparable games. In one he posts a lot. In the other he doesn't post much at all. Players in the latter might say something like "you've been posting elsewhere on site" to deplore said lack of activity)
(But this is enough loophole talk and I don't want any trouble brought to my doorstep)

@Gm: you were gonna do a case on emeraldemon...

Since when?

And it's good that you're reading, though experiencing it does give you some nuance that you only feel in the moment.

Could someone comment on my process of scumhunting, not as in are the reads themselves correct, but as in is the manner I am forming an opinion on someone a good one?

You're fine. You're getting into sort of why people are doing what they're doing, which is pretty much the most important question.

I will point out that effort and/or activity is not necessarily indicative of alignment.

#166 is the scummiest post in this thread in my opinion.

Why's that?

Rothwell-null/pls replace. Unreadable.

Considering the false read, I'm glad I'm unreadable to you.

You need to focus less on being unreadable and more on being townreadable, regardless of your alignment.

Also can someone explain how to link to single posts?

Try the [post] tags. Single number in between, no special characters, no spaces.

[goodmorning]

Also backed down on the further ED case that she promised.

Again, where did I say this?

Sorry it's taking me such a long while, seems every time I have a chance to really dig in the site goes down again.

[goodmorning]

V/LA til Saturday evening EST

BAD TIMING ALL ROUND HEY

[goodmorning]

From the thread, it seems like my biggest mistake was trying too hard to townread yiley. Should I have bussed?

Probably. The biggest challenge as Scum, in my opinion, is figuring out what to do about your partner(s). The best advice I can give on this is: try and pretend you're a Townie and you have no idea what they are.


Yeah, I have a lot of feelings here, but the biggest one is the lack of listening to dead people. Sometimes they are dead for a reason.

Most everything else I wanted to express I said in TLoEHaJ.