Newbie 1441 (Game Over)

[Nominull]

VOTE: TRG

[Nominull]

Vote: Nominull

Just slipping your vote in? Hmm... You seem like someone who knows whats going down.

I've been around the block a couple times.

[Nominull]

Drake beat me to the punch... Nominull's vote seems very sketchy. If you're gonna hop on an early wagon at least state your intent without looking ambiguous.

What was your reason for voting me without stating your intent Nominull?

VOTE: Nominull

Maybe you'd like to explain what was "very sketchy" about my vote? Why would a scum player have done what I did?

[Nominull]

I asked why a scum player would have done what I did. That's not an answer. You always have a choice as to whether or not you assume I'm scum. Why did you make the choice you made?

[Nominull]

Hmmm... While I don't think that throwing a vote out without an explanation is necessarily scummy (maybe he had to go run off to do some errands and wanted to speak up real quick), what's more interesting to me is the fact that he very quickly said:

Why would a scum player have done what I did?

This sounds a little prepared. Like, "Oh man, a mafia player would NEVER do what I did, therefore there's NO WAY I could be mafia!"

No. Anything town can do to look town, mafia can do to look town. That's not what I meant. The question might be more explicitly asked, "why would a scum player be more likely to do what I did than a town player would be"? This is the fundamental question you need to answer before you can call an action scummy, and I feel like it is my duty in the newbiegames to teach the newbies this important fact. Otherwise they will just go along lynching anyone who acts odd in any way and letting the mafia run away with the games just by standing back and being as bland as possible.

[Nominull]

Wow we have an '02er here, that's pretty cool.

Hey everyone.
I have good news, Nom and I were recently scumbuddies in a game so it gave me a pretty good insight to how he operates as scum, so if he's scum here I should be able to pick up on it easily enough. Unless of course he's decided to change his meta since then, but we'll see.

In the meantime

Vote: SecondEngineer

I didn't like your justification of your use of the sarcasm tag.

If you aren't familiar with me as town, how do you hope to distinguish?

[Nominull]

I had many reasons for my vote on TRG. I like to place my vote on the person I find most suspicious, and that was TRG. (Ellipses are a scum tell...) Also, I thought that placing a third vote might help us get out of RVS which is terrible and which I hate. Also I wanted to see how everyone would react if I put a third vote on with zero reasoning. (Not a reaction test on TRG specifically, more a general stirring of the pot.) And also I wanted to make a pedagogical point about the difference between weird and scum, which I've already explained.

[Nominull]

@anyone

What is an ellipse exactly? Never heard that term before.

An ellipsis is a series of three dots ("...") used to indicate words that have been left out. Like so...

[Nominull]

Forgive me if I seem a little nervous. I've been pretty excited to play a game of online mafia. From what I've learned about this game it seems to be entirely about diplomacy and mind games. If I'm nervous, it's because I'm not really sure how to do this diplomacy very well yet (but I want to, hence the carefully thought out words). I'm doing my best to truly explain all of thought processes. I'm trying to give you all every opportunity to get into my head; to reveal as much as I can.

As I said, I'm very excited to be playing, and as it's my first time, I think nervousness should be expected. So the fact that many of you have found me nervous, in my opinion, proves that I've been quite open.

There are three aspects to the game of mafia - analysis, deception, and persuasion. Diplomacy is persuasion, deception is mind games, but analysis is important too. At least, it's important if you're town! Deception is less important for townies, analysis is less important for mafia.

[Nominull]

If you're more interested in Nominull why didn't you vote him?

Why did yojump straight to apologies?

I'm an evil mafia scum

To be honest I kinda felt like I should have applied pressure to second after Tigris' and Jacob's posts saying i screwed up applying pressure. If you think that seems scummy ok, but i'm going to go ahead and consider the arguments more closely from here on in.

VOTE: Montosh

Eyerolling instead of explanation, emotion instead of argument.

[Nominull]

Ok. I'm going to open up some more.

I've been pretty quiet most of the game. I didn't really want this to be the case though. The problem is that I don't really know what to talk about. I guess I could analyze people, but I still really don't have much of an idea on how to do that (But I guess I can only learn through practice).

So I feel that I've been playing very defensively. Most of my posts have been attempts to deflect the attacks towards me. I realize this is very suspicious. Playing defensively seems like it'd do very little to help the town.

The reason I've been nervous is the same reason I've been playing so defensively. The first post I made in the game was labeled suspicious. Right off the bat this unsettled me and so I nervously set out to stop any accusations against me so I could actually start scumhunting. I assumed that any accusations I made while under fire would only make me more suspicious. On top of this I had no real leads on a legitimate target to focus on.

So mostly, I've been trying to lower suspicions on myself without casting baseless aspersions on someone who I don't have any real leads on.

This post could be taken as a pretty defensive one as well, so I'll try to do some analysis in a bit.

Yeah, we aren't lynching this ever.

Eh, it's nice that he's opening up, but "I guess I could analyze people, but I still really don't have much of an idea on how to do that" seems like newb-scum talk to me. Not gonna take him off the watch-list.

[Nominull]

Newbscum tends to be very cautious in making arguments, since they know the arguments they're making are false. Analysis isn't that hard, at least to try. What's hard is

faking

analysis.

[Nominull]

No one's saying you're a stupid townie. And I read post #74, and it didn't seem compelling to me. Just because someone says they used to be scum buddies so they might know how someone operates as scum doesn't really mean anything about their alignment

this

game.

Sure it does. It could be interpreted as an attempt to buddy up to me ("hey, remember that game we were scum in together, don't we still have a lot of positive feelings toward each other based on the natural camaraderie of the mafia?"), or it could be interpreted as an attempt to seem more authoritative later when she says that something I did is similar to a strategy I used as scum in the game we were in together (despite that being pointless since she had not been in a game where I was town). It was not a neutral action, certainly.

notscience has better claim to understanding my meta, since he's been in games with me as both scum and town. But meta is evil so if he doesn't want to exploit that that's perfectly ok by me.

[Nominull]

My perspective on this is that you're extremely ginger about playing the game, Montosh, throwing around FOS's when they could easily have been votes. And it's weird that you put your FOS on me based on Ravenpaw's misbehavior: if you think I'm scum because Ravenpaw is acting like scum that's buddied with me, you should lynch her first, since your belief that I'm scum is predicated on her being scum and therefore is necessarily weaker.

(In general I would advise you to avoid associative tells from people whose alignments are not yet publicly known! It is hard enough to peg one scum, pegging two together is practically impossible. That goes for you too, notscience.)

[Nominull]

If you do something "gingerly" it means you're being cautious, careful, and hesitant.

[Nominull]

Townreads are nonsense. Scumreads are much more meaningful. I'm more worried about TRG only having two scumreads, one of which is nullscum. Where's your proper townie paranoia?

[Nominull]

You aren't arguing with me, you're taking anything I say, focusing on little key words then saying NO ITS NOT TRUE THAT HAS NO MERIT YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF OBVSCUM

While you accuse me of having nothing in the semblence of the case, you are sitting there doing nothing except trying to discredit me.

You aren't trying to find peoples alignments. Your initial vote on me wasn't because you thought me scum, it was due to something my predecessor did that you voted the other person before and got called out for. You're trying to throw shit and see what sticks.

If your predecessor was scum that makes you scum, notsci. Makes perfect sense.

[Nominull]

The reason people play that way is because it lets them get away with pushing positions with little in the way of backup. It works better as town if you're actually any good at analysis though.

[Nominull]

Thanks for the advice TRG, but i'm not "giving in" just yet. And I am trying to find the real scum, I think I already have, and hopefully my future arguments will be more convincing.

And if you do decide to lynch me, please be sure to reread this thread carefully, you may not like what you see.

If you have something to say Montosh you should just say it. Vague hints and implications are the tools of those who can't rely on the simple truth.

[Nominull]

Another aspect about this NS/Montosh interaction that I find interesting is the fact that Spaces seems to take quite a bit of offense to NS throwing Drake into the mix as well. He's the only person actively challenging NS's idea that Drake could be mafia as well.

Could be nothing going on... But like I said his reaction to Drake being thrown in the mix is interesting.

*Please don't bring in associative tells for people whose alignment is not publicly known.* It will only confuse you. I hate that I have to keep saying this over and over.

[Nominull]

Another aspect about this NS/Montosh interaction that I find interesting is the fact that Spaces seems to take quite a bit of offense to NS throwing Drake into the mix as well. He's the only person actively challenging NS's idea that Drake could be mafia as well.

Could be nothing going on... But like I said his reaction to Drake being thrown in the mix is interesting.

*Please don't bring in associative tells for people whose alignment is not publicly known.* It will only confuse you. I hate that I have to keep saying this over and over.

I understand that I just made a note of it for later in the game.

But regardless Spaces did a good job of explaining himself so it's not really relevant anymore.

Making public notes of things and going "hmm... interesting" is rumor and innuendo. It's a useful tool for scum to blacken people's names without having to take an open position, and virtuous townies should avoid doing it.

[Nominull]

I remember you stating earlier that using three dots "..." is considered scummy behavior.

Why is that exactly? That's just how I post in general. I do have a bad habit of overusing it though.

Again, because of the "rumor and innuendo" effect. You use ellipses to leave something implicit rather than making it explicit, which is useful for scum who want to push a position without having to take credit for it.

[Nominull]

Becuse we're scum together and we're trying to screw with VCA later in teh game but ssh don't tell anyone its a big secret.

This is really defensive over a very reasonable request, that you explain your vote. VOTE: JacobSavage

[Nominull]

always lynch the IC day 1, never fails

or is that never succeeds, I forget which

[Nominull]

lol you'll forgive me if I don't trust your judgment as to "obvscum"

[Nominull]

Associational tells on unflipped players are crap, this isn't arguable. You should have learned your lesson about this!

[Nominull]

So, JacobSavage, if your vote is meaningless, why not place a vote that means something? Scared?

[Nominull]

I think it's against the rules for me to frankly discuss my perception of NotScience's playstyle.

[Nominull]

can we please get a prod on TRG

[Nominull]

With two and a half days left I'm not thrilled to be voting with Montosh and the guy who's MIA. VOTE: Montosh

[Nominull]

Trying to think what in my ISO could have possibly given the impression that I'm reasonable.

[Nominull]

Trying to think what in my ISO could have possibly given the impression that I'm reasonable.

Maybe it's the part where you implicitly call me crap and that you won't take what I say on face value

Yeah, I guess that's pretty reasonable.

[Nominull]

I'm gonna do something real scummy here, but we don't have long to deadline and that "lynch the IC" plan did seem sorta bad.

VOTE: Drake Crusader

That's L-1, please state your intent before placing the lynching vote. Drake, you may wish to claim, as we have very little time remaining. If we believe your claim we will need time to find a new lynch target (Montosh).

Let it be known I would prefer a lynch on Montosh, but notsci has stopped trying to lynch his "obvscum" in favor of lynching someone for trying not to lynch their "obvscum".

[Nominull]

Nominull, you feel like Montosh is more likely scum? To me, wanting to lynch a town over your mafia-read is more scummy than the vote-jumping and defensive nature of Montosh.

It's weird, but it's reasonably plausible that Drake Crusader is just communicating badly/being understood badly. In particular, I can't figure out why people think he thinks Jacob is town. He was a scumread when he made a list of reads and he never said anything non-hypothetical to indicate otherwise.

Yeah you know what I don't think I can do this. Get back on Montosh guys. VOTE: Montosh

[Nominull]

Two more votes. We don't want to fail to reach a lynch, you guys.

[Nominull]

Two more votes. We don't want to fail to reach a lynch, you guys.

Well, you do if you're lynching a townie...

That's not really even true. It's better to lynch a townie than to no-lynch, because that way at least you have the information from the lynch of the townie that you can work from the next day. If we no-lynch, the mafia get a free kill and then we're back in the exact same situation we were in today.

[Nominull]

can we get an extension on the deadline to give TRG's replacement time to get up to speed and contribute

[Nominull]

I find the style where you edit your comments into someone else's quote hard to read.

[Nominull]

Welcome to the game, Brian Skies! Get owned, scum!

VOTE: notscience

Terrible town is a good cover story for you to use, but it was a bridge too far when you denied Montosh's claim during twilight citing "a metric fuckton of evidence". Nobody is

that

senselessly hubristic.

[Nominull]

You "clearly thought"?

[Nominull]

105 I'd find it hard to believe that this is scum-notscience at this point. He makes too much sense.

He's making

sense

, but if sense serves the purposes of the mafia they will freely make sense. It's clear that in this case Montosh blew it and let the scum sensibly lynch him.

As a general rule of thumb pushing to lynch a townie is not a towntell.

[Nominull]

If I had had the information to present I wouldn't have voted for Drake, Brian. I kept thinking about my vote after I had placed it and concluded that it was in the wrong place. I like to be pretty generous with my vote so that people know where I stand, and in that case we were staring down a deadline so I didn't have an eternity to dilly-dally anyhow.

Today's lynch should be notscience. Named by lynched town, pushed hard to lynch town, called town "obvscum", unnatural actions during twilight, not helpful as a scumhunter.

[Nominull]

hahaha, I am

thrilled

with my vote now

[Nominull]

How come?

That self-vote, didn't you see it? Self-voting is highly suspect under the best of conditions, and in this case he wasn't under enough pressure that it really would make sense for it to be legit frustration. If the best he can come up with to defend himself is this passive-aggressive nonsense, that's a really good sign he's scum.

Seriously, self-voting in that circumstance as town is so pointlessly bad that I'd say either he's scum or he's violating the rule about playing to your wincondition. Town would never even

suspect

that was a good idea, so either he's not town or he's sabotaging the game.

[Nominull]

Why?

Because I hardcore tunneled a now confirmed town. So far to the point, that it is an EXTREMELY easy lylo bait. If I make it to lylo, we have no chance at winning the game.

I could explain the various reasons this is a silly argument, but I don't want to confuse people into thinking we shouldn't lynch you.

Newbies, remember to ask me after the game why notscience's argument here is silly.

[Nominull]

I'm not trying to confuse people.

If I was trying to confuse people, I'd drop a bunch of faux-softclaims and then claim VT.

I'm being entirely serious.

[Nominull]

I think we should try to save the no-lynch for MYLO, because who knows, we might get another no-kill night if we're lucky.

[Nominull]

well, the lynch today seems pretty clear to me, but we can dick around for another week to give people a chance to go on the record

[Nominull]

Well, I can understand how you feel, but in theory the easy obvious lynches should be

harder

for scum to manipulate. If there is some real uncertainty about someone, scum can tip the scales one way or the other by taking sides, or even if one of them takes sides while the other dithers. Whereas if someone is obviously scum (or obviously town, though that's harder to have happen), all they can do by fighting the consensus is draw attention to themselves.

[Nominull]

Do tell nom, what happens when I flip town?

We get down to the task of finding scum, no longer distracted by notscience jumping up and down shouting "I'm scum, I'm scum, come lynch me!"? What a clichéd appeal to emotion.

[Nominull]

@Nom: It still bothers the crap out of me that you're pushing notscience because he pushed his scum-read and was wrong. YOU THOUGHT HE WAS SCUMMY TOO! WHERE'S THE ACCOUNTABILITY?

Also

VOTE: Nominull

No, not just because of that. People make mistakes. I understand that. But what notscience did was paint a giant sign with "I'm Making A Mistake!" written on it, in order to hide behind. Read his posting during twilight.

And then he self-voted! Man, if I ever self-vote, I'll help you lynch me, how's that for accountability.

[Nominull]

I don't think Montosh voted for himself...?

[Nominull]

Do tell nom, what happens when I flip town?

We get down to the task of finding scum, no longer distracted by notscience jumping up and down shouting "I'm scum, I'm scum, come lynch me!"? What a clichéd appeal to emotion.

Is AtE a scumtell in your opinion?

Yes.

[Nominull]

So hey, what the heck? Is anybody interested in playing this game? Requesting a prod on JacobSavage, sigh.

[Nominull]

Need prods on Spaces and PrivateI... we have troubles if half the players aren't playing.

[Nominull]

For me to be deflecting blame, blame would have had to have been coming towards me in the first place. What reasonable person would blame me for Montosh's death?

[Nominull]

What reasonable person would blame me for Montosh's death?

And that's the problem, isn't it?

I'm afraid I don't see what you're driving at.

[Nominull]

It absolutely destroys games when people replace in, make a single post to say "I'm going to read the game now!" and then drop off the face of the earth. This happens all the time and it's hugely disruptive, something needs to be done about it.

[Nominull]

Yeah I prefer the term mafia to scum, but I usually use the word scum anyway, just because everybody else does. I think part of the reason people say "scum" is because "mafia" is three syllables and "scum" is only one.

I want to hear from PrivateI's replacement and I hope we get a deadline extension to make that possible.

[Nominull]

can we PLEASE get an extension since the last guy who replaced into this slot wasted a week of our time by disappearing

[Nominull]

hurry and give us your thoughts Irish Pope! I still strongly feel we should lynch notscience but notscience if you're town now would be a good time to make a last ditch defense case and/or claim and/or give us final reads so we know what to do tomorrow.

[Nominull]

Don't give me that bullshit.

You know damn well you won't listen to my reads.

You scum?

I suspect I won't, because I don't listen to anything scum says.

Why not provide your analysis? Even if I'm too far gone to listen to it, it might be of help to the rest of the town. Town that's about to get lynched should be helping guide the town in the future. It's scum that take a fatalistic attitude, because nothing they say can be of help to their team anymore.

[Nominull]

Well, for now let's lynch notscience, and then we have some time to consider other folks.

notscience, if you'd like to present a defense or give final reads the clock is ticking.

[Nominull]

because he's scum

[Nominull]

The repurcussions of tunneling into a mislynch, that town decides to go tunnelvision onto one player without so much as considering any others.

Do you realize that this is not even remotely happening?

He's overreacting, which is what scum do. Scum know that a wagon on them has the power of truth behind it, so they see it as being much stronger than a similarly-situated townie would.

Look, we can no-lynch today and that's not the end of the world, but we'll just be having the same argument again tomorrow. I think it would be better to hurry up and get notsci lynched so we can move on.

[Nominull]

Well, here we go again. VOTE: notscience

[Nominull]

Well, barring a counterclaim that seems pretty conclusive. If anyone is the tracker, cop, or JK, you should counterclaim right now and share your results.

Note that with "no kill" you can't distinguish between the doctor and the mafia because they'll both be targeting the same person.

[Nominull]

Well, is there anything we need to talk about today, or shall we string up this scum?

[Nominull]

Well, as the most obvious target tonight, you should probably give your reads. We'd obviously give them great deference if you turned up dead tomorrow.

[Nominull]

I guess I'm the other plausible target so I should come up with something. I'm having to rethink notsci a little bit since it's a little iffy for spaces to have been trying to bus him.

[Nominull]

Of course I mean spaces, how are we going to lynch anyone but the admitted scum?

[Nominull]

Well there's no chance we're lynching you today, so what's the harm in voting you?

We should give TheIrishPope a chance to check in and say his piece before ending the day.

[Nominull]

I'm gonna remind everybody not to listen to a word mafia says.

TheIrishPope, if you're going to counterclaim Tigris, you should do it now.

[Nominull]

In fact, regardless of if you're counterclaiming, I need you to elaborate. Refusing to vote for claimed scum (or indeed at all?!?) looks very much not pro-town, so you should probably explain what you are thinking so that you do not get lynched tomorrow.

[Nominull]

I'm not counterclaiming. Why would I get lynched tomorrow? I'm sooo scared.
Do you not see how Tigris is not confirmed Town?

I do not see. That's why you should elaborate.

You'll get lynched tomorrow because you're refusing to vote for claimed scum or indeed at all, which looks very much not pro-town. If you are town you need to sit down very fast and think very hard, because we're only allowed to mislynch once and you shouldn't make us waste it on you.

[Nominull]

I might see what you're driving at, but that's still no excuse for not wanting to lynch Spaces.

[Nominull]

IPO defending spaces ?
JacobSavage a pal of Spaces all quiet then comes alive now that Spaces is in trouble ?
@anyone who could answer. How would a counterclaim work like, would they just say they are something else and argue with their results?

Tigris may not be town however, how on earth would we even find out? The only thing anyone could actually argue would be a counterclaim I guess and even then the only thing they could change is the night 1 action.
I mean we all know that Brian Skies was killled. However, the fact that Spaces did that little you played well game. I guess its settled then.
As much as I feel Jacob is scum I guess I will sit a day and see maybe wagons may change.

VOTE: JacobSavage

If we can get him to admit scum then its game.
Besides, we know Spaces is scum. So we have so many days to lynch someone who we all know is scum. Might as well just relax now. Not like he can do anything damaging to us.

So it's you, eh?

[Nominull]

For the record...

she's

scum.

If you set your gender in your profile it makes people less likely to misgender you, or at least gives you the right to complain when they do.

[Nominull]

So confused right now what is even going on. You guys have officially lost me.

What's so confusing? We have scum. Town lynches scum. Are you town? Why do you want to lynch someone else? You are the confusing one.

[Nominull]

If Tigris is still alive tomorrow we can worry about whether or not this has all been an elaborate setup. If Tigris is telling the truth there is about a 50/50 chance he dies tonight and makes the whole thing moot. Lynching Tigris today is such a hilariously awful idea I don't even think it's scummy honestly. Scum would try to be a

little

subtle.

[Nominull]

Tigris being alive tomorrow wouldn't be conclusive proof he was scum, no. But him being dead tomorrow would be conclusive proof he was innocent. So since there is some chance of learning more information overnight, we should lynch the ADMITTED SCUM instead.

I'm about ready to throw the lynching vote on just so that you guys don't have time to talk yourselves out of a guaranteed scumlynch. Regardless of Tigris's motives, town-Spaces would not have admitted to being scum. We cannot lose by lynching him.

[Nominull]

So how certain are you it's Drake Crusader, notsci? You've been confident before in this game.

[Nominull]

So how certain are you it's Drake Crusader, notsci? You've been confident before in this game.

Do you see anyone else trying to lynch a fucking PR before the convicted?

TIP is refusing to vote. Everybody's acting a little weird, but only one of them can be scum.

[Nominull]

And like, what motive does scum have to push for a lynch on Tigris? If you were in your right mind you'd know that would never go through, and if you're not in your right mind you could just as easily be crazy town as crazy scum.

[Nominull]

You're not conftown notscience.

[Nominull]

I'm only scum if Tigris is lying and therefore scum and that would make 3 scum. So I'm town.

[Nominull]

Anyway, we're just wasting time and not getting anything useful done.

VOTE: Spaces

We can work everything else out tomorrow.

[Nominull]

Well, can't blame me for trying. So the way I see it we have a fifty-fifty chance if I pick two lynches at random from among you guys, so I just gotta do better than that. Why don't the people who suspected Tigris justify themselves now that he's dead?

[Nominull]

Drake and then failing that notscience, I think.

[Nominull]

If you can get the mod to confirm your theory I'll believe it.

[Nominull]

TIP, you are one of the people who needs to explain yourself.

[Nominull]

notscience is not confirmed town.

[Nominull]

Is that you claiming scum?

[Nominull]

If you're scum you'd know he's town.

[Nominull]

That's not a confirmation that he's town. It's just confirmation that you can't trust anything confirmed scum says, which we already knew.

[Nominull]

Guys! He's town!
Hnnnnnng

He might be. But it's not definitive unless you're claiming scum, and it's best to keep an open mind at this point, because he hasn't really behaved in a townie manner.

[Nominull]

The only think keeping me from lynching DC right now is that he thinks you're confirmed town so I can't trust him to lynch you once I'm dead.

[Nominull]

Isn't JacobSavage playing in this game? Shouldn't he get a prod right about now? He's said more or less nothing today.

[Nominull]

Oh uh "he" there was TIP.

[Nominull]

All right this has been dead, so let me tell you what we're gonna do. I'm gonna go back through the game when I get some time, probably tomorrow, and I'm gonna do some interaction analysis for the people whose alignments we know, with reduced emphasis on Brian Skies. Then I'm gonna propose two lynches, and you can either lynch those two or argue with me. But since I'm conf-town and you're not, better make those arguments good. There's no point in waiting until tomorrow to decide lynch number two, if we make it to tomorrow the lynch should be a formality.

[Nominull]

Ok so the main thing I got from interaction analysis was this: Spaces put Drake on L-2 moving the wagon off the townie Montosh near the end of day 1. If Drake is Space's scumbuddy, that's a real ballsy. Also, Spaces was highly interactive with NotSci day 1, much more so than with other lynch candidates, and he was one of the people on the day 2 NotSci wagon that failed.

Beyond that there are a few more major events in the game:
*Drake and NotSci were on the day1 mislynch. NotSci pushed it hard, hard hard.
*NotSci's woe-is-me self-vote day2.
*TIP and Drake both were reluctant to vote for conf-scum Spaces. Drake went so far as to vote for our tracker Tigris. WTF guys. You can't both be scum.
*JS has contributed very little overall all game, so there's little exculpatory evidence for him.
*JS was Montosh's final scumread, TIP was Tigris's final scumread.

[Nominull]

So we don't get a clear picture out of that, but it looks to me on the balance that the two lucky winners are

JacobSavage and notscience

. Let me know what you think, quickly.

[Nominull]

VOTE: notscience

We're doing notscience today, maybe we won't need to do tomorrow at all. He won't make it to LYLO, just like he wanted.

[Nominull]

I obviously object to this.

Because you think, mistakenly, he's conftown? Or did you have some other reason? I do not find your already-raised objections in this matter compelling.

[Nominull]

Okay I can totally see where you are coming from.

Why is montash being my final scum-read relevent? He was lynched... if anything Brians scum-reads would be more relevent.

I think you are twisting the facts here

No, scum chose deliberately to kill Brian and confirm his innocence, so we don't give as much weight to his reads as we would to someone who was lynched by the town or killed as a PR.

IIRC Brian's final scumread was on me anyway? I'm conf-town.

[Nominull]

I'm conf-town.

So am I, but you're voting me purely so I don't get to lylo and intend to hand the game over to drake-scum, so whatever.

That day 1 move by Spaces, how do you explain it? TIP-scum seems more likely to me than drake-scum, if we were to lose.

[Nominull]

FWIW between you and JacobSavage I give JacobSavage the edge in suspicion but I can't trust TIP to lynch you at lylo so we're doing you first.

[Nominull]

TIP hasn't thought this through and has bought into your crap logic. That doesn't make you town, that makes TIP gullible. The problem is that at LYLO if you're scum we need his gullible vote, whereas now we can do it without him.

[Nominull]

The mod came out and contradicted you, I dunno why TIP believes you anyway. But he seems pretty unshakable on it.

[Nominull]

What? I'm lynching you because I think you're the second most likely to be scum. It's only today because TIP doesn't think so and I've given up convincing him.

Don't worry so much about it man. If you're town you can still win even if you're lynched. If you're town, that is.

[Nominull]

Thoughts, Drake?

[Nominull]

My thought is, you should vote for notscience and so should JS. We don't have a lot of time left.

[Nominull]

TIP's reasoning is based on a misunderstanding of the rules, not based on his read on you. Drake is getting on the wagon led by conf-town like a good townie should do. I'm not persuaded, NS.

JS, do you have concerns that are keeping you from placing your vote? If you do, I'll listen, but you need to make it quick, deadline is in less than a day.

[Nominull]

JS tomorrow not NS, guys. I guess you probably don't need telling.

[Nominull]

Well, OK. What was that nonsense on day 2 about then, NS?

[Nominull]

That's no reason to friggin' self-vote.

[Nominull]

it doesn't matter when we lynch you. if we lynch you in lylo we lose the game, but if we lynch you before lylo we get one fewer lynch before lylo. either way we have the same number of non-you lynches.

[Nominull]

But imagine the information from such an easy wagon to push

Yeah, we got

so

much useful information there.

[Nominull]

I wasn't adamant, it's just that TIP's argument wasn't a good one.