NG 1479: Somebody's Gonna Die! (OVER!)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
ALL RIGHT
So I just read the game. And it was weird. I couldn't keep half the replacements straight. But let me try anyway.
HighShroomish (replaced Dritan; chitmap2510) - This guy is Town. I believed the VT claim when it was made and I like the thought processes that Shroomy has been working with.
HiddenInTheDark - I'm not sure. Started out really really Town, but some of his more recent posts have been... ew. One of {HITD, Victor} is Scum.
jon_h61 SE - Hasn't done anything overtly scummy, but then, he wouldn't. The whole time I was reading my gut was shouting about him too. But my gut has been wrong before. I'm reserving judgement on him til I can read him real-time.
Matti (replaced Drone67; SafetyDance) - Safety was Town. I read Safety well. Therefore TOWN.
VictorDeAngelo - Has contradicted himself a time or two. Is that scummy? Not necessarily. Again, either he or HITD is Scum.
YurikoJasmine - Looks Town to me, based on pretty much every single one of her posts being absolutely wonderful.
So I'm going to treat Matti and Shroomy as very town for the rest of the game. Those reads aren't going to change unless something drastic happens. Yuriko is a weaker townread.
I keep PoEing it down to jon/{HITD, Victor} and I really don't want it to be jon? I don't know.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
I remember playing with you in N1402. Not that you were Scum then, but you seemed competent.In post 427, jon_h61 wrote:
How would you know I wouldn't do something scummy? I've only been scum twice, both times as replacements, and lost both times. The first time I survived until the Day before LYLO, the second I didn't last a day (real time). But thank you for the compliment? If being accused of being a good liarIn post 426, goodmorning wrote:jon_h61 SE - Hasn't done anything overtly scummy, but then, he wouldn't. The whole time I was reading my gut was shouting about him too. But my gut has been wrong before. I'm reserving judgement on him til I can read him real-time.isa compliment.
Really?His only giving Town reads isn't something I've ever seen a Townie do before.
I'm saying I'm personally hoping it's someone else.Why do you say "and I really don't want it to be jon?"? This sounds like the beginning of a push to me. Are you saying I'm too Townie to be Town?
Wasn't cog-dis. Was contradictions. HITD brought them up about a zillion times.Can you elaborate on Victor's cog dis?
It's largely just based on meta and the fact that I'm very familiar with his.What did Safety do that gave you this firm Town read?
Because I've never played Yuriko before and so it's possible she could be snowing me. Besides which, it's more that the other two are stronger because they're based in what I absolutely know about Safety and the type of newb Dritan was.If Yuriko "Looks Town to me, based on pretty much every single one of her posts being absolutely wonderful.", why is she a weaker Town read?
Because I don't want it to be you. I'm reserving judgement on your slot, but that's just where PoE puts me.
If you think I'm the lynchpin here, why say you really don't want it to be me??? It doesn't sound much like you're reserving judgement to me.goodmorning wrote:I keep PoEing it down to jon/{HITD, Victor} and I really don't want it to be jon? I don't know.
If only that was what I said.In post 428, jon_h61 wrote:I don't like the "too Townie to be Town" gm starts with.
Plausible, but almost too desperate? And the timing didn't really make sense from where I sit.In post 429, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm You said you believed Dritan's VT claim, what did you think of HITD's VT claim?-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Meta is the way that people have a history of playing.In post 433, HiddenInTheDark wrote:In no way am I worried about what anyone has to think of me haha. I do have a question, what is meta?-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
In what way? And before you ask, I'm 100% certain of Matti and 98% of Shroomy.In post 435, VictorDeAngelo wrote:His two townclears (Matti/Dritan) feel pretty artificial.
Why do you not think HITD could have bussed? jon didn't look likely to be lynched today (and probably still doesn't, but one never knows), and if HITD goes and flips Scum, then that would make jon look rather clear.(since I am somewhat sceptical that HITD would have thrown so much pressure towards Jon at the start of Day when I was such an easier target)
Quote this for me.He also seems to ignored Jon calls to expand on his reads to make his points clearer - yet he responded to most of the rest albeit in a brief fashion.
@jon: Why ask me questions if you weren't in any way interested in the answers, or in answering the questions I put to you in return?-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
As far as only giving townreads: it's a strategy I've seen used occasionally insofar as it limits Scum's knowledge. These sorts of things particularly happen with ICs in newbie games (I've gone further and held back all but one or two reads a time or two) because the position bestows some extra attention. And, as ICs typically expect to die, it can later (postmortem) be somewhat effective at directing lynches/nightkills.In post 439, jon_h61 wrote:
No, I've never seen anyone only give Town reads, especially the way Espe did. Not even newbies, excluding those who flake after a few days. I did play with a ten year old(?) that started out saying everyone was Town, but when he got pressured on it, he picked out a player or two he thought was scummy. Espe never did, and I called him on it, but he still refused. In the game I read with you and him in it (you were scum), he didn't play that way. Mini 1520. So I'll stand on that. No, I've never seen someone play the way Espe was. Even his Town reads were vague.In post 430, goodmorning wrote:Really?
Why do you think Espe would be more likely not to share scumreads as Scum than as Town?
Also, this was apparently his first IC game. I'm not massively surprised his play was as it was, particularly given the replace-out.
Anything other than the "believing Dritan's claim"? If I thought someone was scum, a pre-hammer claim of VT wouldn't make me suddenly believe they were Town.In post 430, goodmorning wrote:Wasn't cog-dis. Was contradictions. HITD brought them up about a zillion times.
I don't know what you're talking about here.
Ha. Only if you claim the right PR.Though what I've seen, claiming VT gets you strung up more often than claiming a PR. Forsomereason.
No, you didn't say that, but I felt you were implying that. If I should have come to a different conclusion from your post, I don't know what it was. It sure looked you were seeding doubt, in preparation of pushing a wagon.[/quote]In post 430, goodmorning wrote:If only that was what I said.
Not having done anything too scummy doesn't mean you've done anything particularly towny either.
I did, but I don't typically do Marathons.Did everyone else realize it was Marathon weekend on Mafiascum? I guess since I go straight to my bookmarks I missed the announcements. That makes me sad.
SIDE NOTE:
I was looking at the setups again, and I thought I remembered someone saying something along the lines of the bolded. No prizes for guessing what I think of it.In post 386, jon_h61 wrote:We now know we are either in column A or row 1. Scum have either a Role blocker or goon.The RB is useless now that our JK has flipped.It's going to be an all scum hunting game, instead of relying on Powers.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Uh... what? The RB is a Scum role.In post 444, HiddenInTheDark wrote:You think that Jon was trying to out the RB'er in the thought that he would out himself for the next night lynch? Even though the RB'er is still useful as in blocking a night kill from happening.
Yes.In post 445, Matti wrote:are you suggesting that jon_h61 seems to state there IS a RB in play?
Presupposes scum knowledge?
1. The percentages are merely there to exaggerate my point: I am certain of Matti and very nearly so of Shroomy at this point.In post 446, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
Firstly the percentages make it feel more artificial :p - How can you be 2% less sure on Shroomy.In post 436, goodmorning wrote:
In what way? And before you ask, I'm 100% certain of Matti and 98% of Shroomy.In post 435, VictorDeAngelo wrote:His two townclears (Matti/Dritan) feel pretty artificial.
As for my original point you have towncleared two players you have been suspicious this game and not given any good reasoning.
2. I have towncleared two players. What would my motivation be for doing this as Scum?
Plenty of time to look for other mislynches after a distancing bus.
Possible but it only really works if either Jon or HITD thought they were likely to be the lynch today. Otherwise I see scum looking for another mislynch target.
Why do you not think HITD could have bussed? jon didn't look likely to be lynched today (and probably still doesn't, but one never knows), and if HITD goes and flips Scum, then that would make jon look rather clear.(since I am somewhat sceptical that HITD would have thrown so much pressure towards Jon at the start of Day when I was such an easier target)
That was funny, but unhelpful. If it's really a point of concern for you then why aren't you more interested in getting it cleared up?You bit where you didn't expand your reasonings. Sure
The bulletproof townie doesn't have an active role, but a passive one. Since being bulletproof doesn't count as an action, the RB has no effect.IC-Question:How does a roleblocker work with the bullet proof townie? (any experienced player can answer)-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
See, this is you not taking it seriously.In post 451, jon_h61 wrote:
So what does me speculating about the role setup do to make me scummy? In Row 1 scum have a Goon, in Column A scum get a Role Blocker. There'sIn post 445, Matti wrote:are you suggesting that jon_h61 seems to state there IS a RB in play?
Presupposes scum knowledge?In post 448, goodmorning wrote:Yes.nothingfor scum to role block. This is a straw man at it's finest.
I suggest to everyone, especially Town to keep a sharp eye on all of goodmorning's scum hunting from now on. I'll get to more later. I'm grilling out and I don't want to burn our food!
"We now know we are either in column A or row 1. Scum have either a Role blocker or goon."
This part of your post was fine.
"The RB is useless now that our JK has flipped."
This part of your post was less fine. You spoke positively as though there was a RB in the setup and you knew it.
So I would limit my lynch options and would choose to clear Matti, a somewhat inactive slot that I could probably push pretty easily, and Shroomy, who seems suspicious of people calling him Town?In post 453, jon_h61 wrote:
I can think of a couple. To get Town on your side, or maybe to get Town to think scum are Town. I'm sticking with gm as scum unless something drastic happens.In post 448, goodmorning wrote:1. The percentages are merely there to exaggerate my point: I am certain of Matti and very nearly so of Shroomy at this point.2. I have towncleared two players. What would my motivation be for doing this as Scum?
If I was Scum I'd probably have cleared Yuriko, as it's fairly obvious she's not going to be lynched.
ughhh this line could not be any more AtF if it trieddddThat double post was weird. I already know scum's going to use it against me. I say let them.
It's quite possible he thought of it as a theory question and attempted to explain it to help the newbs. I don't know, I wasn't there.In post 456, jon_h61 wrote:He never once questioned why I was calling him out, but tried to explain why he was doing it like he was talking to Town. Because he knew he was talking to Town.
I've not seen him care about making enemies as Scum.It sure looked like he was doing his best not to make enemies.
I don't know what you're referencing, but obviously I need to go back and read that slot again.She starts off saying something close to what RC said, taking it a step farther.
Why would that be a warning? That word is weird in that sentence.She warns everyone that she feels I'm a competent player.
Oh really?She says she hopes it's not me, and that she's reserving judgement, but immediately starts her push on me.
1. If the Scum are both Newbs, the IC's reads can often be a road map for the game. Survival is unnecessary.
1. First, how does not having scum reads limit scum's knowledge help Town in the first place? By making scum not think you suspect them, so the IC can live longer? Survival isn't what the IC, or anybody, should be going for. Finding, and lynching scum is what should be taking place. When you limit scum's info, as you say. you've helped keep Town without info not just on the other players, but on yourself too. Scum want to do that.In post 443, goodmorning wrote:1As far as only giving townreads: it's a strategy I've seen used occasionally insofar as it limits Scum's knowledge.2These sorts of things particularly happen with ICs in newbie games (I've gone further and held back all but one or two reads a time or two) because the position bestows some extra attention.3And, as ICs typically expect to die, it can later (postmortem) be somewhat effective at directing lynches/nightkills.4Why do you think Espe would be more likely not to share scumreads as Scum than as Town?5Also, this was apparently his first IC game. I'm not massively surprised his play was as it was, particularly given the replace-out.
2. It gets you attention, but what was he using that attention for? Espe never did anything, his only motive I could see is trying to staying alive.
3. If you don't give reads, then how is everyone else supposed to know who you suspected? Especially if you thought you were likely to die. You might be right that it'd help direct NKs, but I'm not sure how that'd work, except maybe it'd make scum think you were safe to keep around, and make them go after a bigger threat.
4. He was trying not to draw attention to himself by calling Town scum, and didn't want to bus what he considered a weaker partner? He may have had other reasons, but that's my guess.
5. Even with this being his first time as an IC, I don't think that's enough reason for this unrealistic shift in his play. No, I'm pretty confidant this slot is scum.
2. What is your point?
3. Obviously, if you give townreads, you suspect the people you haven't townread, no?
4. So you think that he instead drew attention to himself by not calling anyone Scum? That stands out far more for everyone than one person whining "boo hoo, you're reading me wrong."
5. Do you have any meta of him playing this way as Scum?
Look at you keeping your options open.In post 461, jon_h61 wrote:It's weird, it appears he's going after Matti like he thinks they're scum, but has vote parked on you. I'd actually forgotten he was voting you. Being vague can sometimes trip up scum, and maybe that was what he's attempting to do. I think I had him as Town from his interactions with Matti, but after rereading his ISO, I have to put him back to Nullish. There's only two scum though, and today I'm more interested in gm.
I know I'm probably the lynch today. I'm OK with that. But if I go today, jon needs to go tomorrow. No talking himself out of it.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
What "vagueness thing?"In post 464, HighShroomish wrote:And Jon hit the nail on the head with the vagueness thing.
I realize that you aren't Town. I further realize that I'm not going to win this fight because I am standing on one shaky pillar, but if I can take you down with me then I'll feel satisfied with this game. And I realize I'm going first. I'm OK with that because I know what my flip will be.In post 466, jon_h61 wrote:
OK, deal. I have a quick question for you, if I'm scum, who's my partner? Speaking of AtE... You realize if we're both Town it's game over.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:I know I'm probably the lynch today. I'm OK with that. But if I go today, jon needs to go tomorrow. No talking himself out of it.
If you're Scum, your partner is either HITD or Victor, as I've said.
I said that you spoke as if you knew it. I heavily suspect that you are blatantly lying when you say you don't.
Blatant lie. The only thing I know positively is my Role PM.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:This part of your post was less fine. You spoke positively as though there was a RB in the setup and you knew it.
It is later in the game. This is, for all intents and purposes, a Micro. Anything past D1 is late.
You wouldn't have to worry about that until much later in the game. Yuriko would have been harder to sell that you were reading them 98% or 100% is my guess.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:So I would limit my lynch options and would choose to clear Matti, a somewhat inactive slot that I could probably push pretty easily, and Shroomy, who seems suspicious of people calling him Town? If I was Scum I'd probably have cleared Yuriko, as it's fairly obvious she's not going to be lynched.
As for Yuriko being a harder sell: not likely. And at any rate I wouldn't have to sell at a 100% confidence rate.
Why are you continually trying to manipulate people? It's equally possible that he didn't want to answer you straight for any number of reasons. Stop trying to make me attack or defend him. It's not going to happen.
Town, go back and read the part we're talking about and see if you think this is even a possibility. I called him out pretty forcefully for Espe to think I was asking a theory question.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:It's quite possible he thought of it as a theory question and attempted to explain it to help the newbs. I don't know, I wasn't there.
I remember only that EEEE was obvtowning. I didn't really read most of RC's stuff.
Personally I felt he might have been a good addition to Town if He hadn't been NKd.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:I don't know what you're referencing, but obviously I need to go back and read that slot again.
You are Scum, and it's going to be damned hard to get you lynched with me posting from a townslot that's being almost universally scumread.
Not really, you were making me sound like a threat, like if I was scum it'd be too hard to lynch me. Similar to the Lynch the IC Policy.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:Why would that be a warning? That word is weird in that sentence.
As far as you being competent: you are. Me saying so was not intended as a warning but a note.
I reserved judgement. Didn't last long.
Let's hear your version of events.In post 463, goodmorning wrote:Oh really?
1. Yes.
1. Vague Town reads?In post 463, goodmorning wrote:1. If the Scum are both Newbs, the IC's reads can often be a road map for the game. Survival is unnecessary.2. What is your point?3. Obviously, if you give townreads, you suspect the people you haven't townread, no?4. So you think that he instead drew attention to himself by not calling anyone Scum? That stands out far more for everyone than one person whining "boo hoo, you're reading me wrong."5. Do you have any meta of him playing this way as Scum?
2. I pretty much felt the same way for the original2.
3. Espe didn't come off that way,at all. It's funny you're even trying to make his play appear that way.
4. Exactly.
5. No.
2. My original 2 was elaborating on my original 1, and I don't know why you separated them except to look like you were saying more than you actually were.
3. I don't understand why you're trying to box me into talking about Espe. I am not in his head. Do you disagree that the people you aren't townreading would be the people you'd be ok with lynching?
4. So you think Scum-Espe made himself stand out more than he had to?
5. Then why do you keep talking about his playstyle like you know it?
aaaaand AtF. Again.Myonlyreservation is I had a player I when head to head with in my last Road to Rome game was Town. I tried to warn him it might be TvT several times, but he never relented. If I remember right he was NKd, we lost anyway.
Precisely this. And I have never got Safety wrong, ever.In post 469, Matti wrote:Firstly I don't fully understand the way I'm being cleared by goodmorning. Is this because someone in the slot previously is just super-town for you? - And you've never got them wrong...ever?
You may want to put extra focus on posts that were made while you were in the game. That can sometimes trigger you thinking things like, "oh yeah, the timing was a bit weird on that."Since my scum read and attempt at pushing on someone to see where that gets us was pretty poor and since goodmorning has come in she is going to town on my strongest town read in jon_h61 I'm kind of struggling to get my head around things.
I'm ISOing and seeing what else I can contribute - any thoughts on the process gratefully received.
That's true.In post 471, VictorDeAngelo wrote:There's a fifty percent chance of a RB in play from the matrix6 setup. If we don't have a BP townie, the point becomes null though.
Matti's slot was once occupied by Safety, whom I have never read wrong. I realize there's a first time for everything, but this isn't it.
Let's not tangent. Instead let's have you explain your reasons for clearing these two players. Explain what they did which was so obviously townie in your eyes.
1. The percentages are merely there to exaggerate my point: I am certain of Matti and very nearly so of Shroomy at this point.In post 446, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Firstly the percentages make it feel more artificial :p - How can you be 2% less sure on Shroomy.
As for my original point you have towncleared two players you have been suspicious this game and not given any good reasoning.
2. I have towncleared two players. What would my motivation be for doing this as Scum?
Shroomy was once Dritan, whose VT claim was so obv-newbTown that I would be astonished if he was Scum.
I don't make associative cases before flips.
I have my opinion, you have yours. I just don't get any scumbuddy vibes off their interactions. If I'm wrong your gonna need to present some actual evidence.
Plenty of time to look for other mislynches after a distancing bus.Possible but it only really works if either Jon or HITD thought they were likely to be the lynch today. Otherwise I see scum looking for another mislynch target.
Because I'm not seeing where things were unsatisfactorily explained, and if you think that I didn't make myself clear enough all you have to do is tell me. I'm not psychic. I can't read your mind to see what you have problems with.
You asked a silly question, you get a silly answer. How about instead of all the couterattacking you clear up your own mess by actually expanding your reasoning?That was funny, but unhelpful. If it's really a point of concern for you then why aren't you more interested in getting it cleared up?
Also, thanks to Shroomy I AM AT L-1. DON'T GO LYNCHING ME WILLY-NILLY.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
You mean, assuming that we're both Town, who do I see pushing our fight? I don't see anyone outside pushing our fight. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm saying it's not happening here.In post 474, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm Pretend I'm Town and my AtF worked itself on me. I'm Town, you're Town. Who do you see stoking the fires to get us to tear ourselves apart. Don't pretend this scenario never happens. Who beside me or you is scum? Short of that who (and why) is my scum partner?
If I still assume you're Town, then Scum would still be one of HITD and Victor. The other, I suppose, would have to be Yuriko.
If you're asking me to make an associative case before a scumflip, no.
Convince me and I promise that no matter how hard you rail against me I'll not vote you again this game.
No self-respecting townie would ever say this.
If you're asking me to make an associative case before a scumflip, no.I don't care about your scum read on me, I'd have to have a partner if I was scum. Go.
Why would you unvoting me give me any incentive to do anything. Were you under the impression you were dealing with someone who's afraid of votes?As added incentive
UNVOTE:
I am also not interested in any more great walls.In post 475, jon_h61 wrote:@gm Just to let you know 473 doesn't convince me of anything. I just don't want to wall war with you right now. Unless you insist.
If any of the points in it are especially important I'll pull them tonight.
Vote: jon-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Appeal to Fear.In post 479, VictorDeAngelo wrote:IC_question: What does AtF mean?
Because it's not really based on what he said. It's based on his style of play this game and my experience with him.
Safety made 6 posts and half barely contained any content. I remain sceptical that you could know a player that well to townclear him. I dislike how after repeated calls you still don't highlight anything Safety did to make such a strong townread and instead say trust me.Matti's slot was once occupied by Safety, whom I have never read wrong. I realize there's a first time for everything, but this isn't it.
Shroomy was once Dritan, whose VT claim was so obv-newbTown that I would be astonished if he was Scum.
I've played a lot of newbie games. I believe the claim. I can say no more.The reasoning for HS is fairly weak - though at this point I trust HS slot a little more than I trust Matti's slot.
So you want me to elaborate on why I think jon is Scum?
The response was originally barning what Jon said in 428. You've had a lot of back and forth with Jon but you still haven't presented any real case around his posting. That said it's reasonably moot since I won't be voting Jon toDay (and you seem convinced that either me or HITD are Jon's scumbuddy so that's hardly gonna surprise you).
Because I'm not seeing where things were unsatisfactorily explained, and if you think that I didn't make myself clear enough all you have to do is tell me. I'm not psychic. I can't read your mind to see what you have problems with.You asked a silly question, you get a silly answer. How about instead of all the couterattacking you clear up your own mess by actually expanding your reasoning?
That's interesting, because I wasn't of that opinion at the time that jon posted 428.
No self-respecting townie would try to make a vote deal with their top scumspect over something so utterly stupid and distracting as an associative case. Further, no self-respecting townie would make any kind of vote deal that involved the word never.In post 480, jon_h61 wrote:
No self respecting Townie would want to make sure they're not making a mistake? OK, I gave you your chance.In post 478, goodmorning wrote:No self-respecting townie would ever say this.
You're seriously OMGUSing on page 20????In post 483, HiddenInTheDark wrote:@Victor if it were up to me both suit fine for me. I don't exactly know what gm is trying to do here and apparently I'm scum to him. For what reason I don't know. That's why my vote is staying on gm.
Spoiler: Recent Scumgames, for reference
Everyone should read the last one and decide whether they really think I'm Scum here.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
If you haven't seen Town doing it then you've been reading the wrong games. notsci, especially, is well-known for townhunting being his primary strategy.In post 488, jon_h61 wrote:I've done a lot of reading of Mafia games lately and I've seen scum "Town hunting" quite a bit.
Being honest here:There's a lot of other things I haven't liked about her rebuttals, but winning (or losing) arguments doesn't make the person's Role PM. Sometimes it's gut that finds the scum.
I read the game before I got my role PM. Do you know what I was convinced it was going to say? "with your partner, jon."
When I found I was actually Town, I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. I thought, "maybe it was all just associative tells which I now know are false."
But I think now that I was right about you even if I was wrong about me.
lololololololololIFwe have the 1 shot bullet proof,
There is no possible universe in which you would have listened anyway. Even had I poured time into an incredibly convincing and utterly false post full of associative tells and things I don't like to do pre-scumflip, you would just have said, "well, that doesn't really convince me."In post 489, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm In 474 I was (and still am) very skeptical that I was(am) wrong, but wanted to offer you a chance to help steer me in a different direction if you were Town.
And as either alignment, that would have been the correct thing to say.
Would you like to know why it was that way? That was where I became certain you were Scum and equally certain that I wasn't going to be able to do anything about it.But it was more like swatting you with an olive branch that was on fire. Forthat, I apologize.
I have never before felt so frustrated by a Mafia game, and there have been some bad ones.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
HITD for both unless Victor was to collapse and claim Scum. I would be somewhat sure.In post 492, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm Then how about this, pretend I've been lynched. And pretend I was scum. Who would you be voting next, and how sure would you feel?
Now pretend I flipped Town. Who would you be voting, and how sure would you be?
Fine. You should expect that I might possibly attempt a coherent case on you if I find the time. Other than that, keeping this to a minimum is good by me.In post 493, jon_h61 wrote:If me and gm keep on it can easily drown out other things. Like where the other scum is. You say I'm scum, I say you are. Enough said.
gm is fine. Doesn't really matter to me what I'm called as long as I can tell it's me.@ gm What should I call you? gm just doesn't strike me as what you like to be called.
Uh... I don't think so?In post 494, jon_h61 wrote:It all boils down to her entrance. Before then I think I was leaning null-Town-ish.
Why would you try to pull together a wagon, even a deadline wagon, on a potentially valuable player that you were null-town reading?
I'm not sure what you expect. I still have strong townreads on Shroomy and Matti. I still think Yuriko's probably Town. I'm inclining away from Victor-Scum, and very much towards you-Scum, but that's all that's changed since my replacing in.In post 497, jon_h61 wrote:I think it's better to give Reads than to not. Holding some things back is OK too, but when reads start to be so vague they start looking scummie.
I've explained why I have those strong townreads on Shroomy and Matti. I'm not going to waste my time explaining Yuriko-Town unless someone wants to seriously tell me they scumread her. I won't explain why I no longer much think Victor is Scum.
I feel like our back and forth contains enough of my explanations on you for the time being.
As for HITD: I'd rather focus on you.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
I'm referring to your behaviour towards Espe yesterday.In post 504, jon_h61 wrote:
I'm trying to get people to commit, not say "it's too late in the Day to scum hunt".In post 503, goodmorning wrote:Uh... I don't think so?Why would you try to pull together a wagon, even a deadline wagon, on a potentially valuable player that you were null-town reading?
You don't have to "start a wagon" to say who you're suspicious of.
I have no idea what you're saying. That's certainly not the direction I was going there.
I'm betting you're scum because of your cases, I'd love to see another. I can point you a couple of times where I've turned on a dime on a Town read close to the end of the game, to hammer them and win the game. But it's impossible for me to change a scum read?In post 503, goodmorning wrote:Enough said.Fine. You should expect that I might possibly attempt a coherent case on you if I find the time. Other than that, keeping this to a minimum is good by me.
Also, what cases? I haven't made any yet.
To clarify, you're saying that you had a null-Town read on someone besides Espe, and that you thought I had replaced that person?
How was I reading your slot then? WOW, what a brain dead moment. If anything,In post 503, goodmorning wrote:Uh... I don't think so?that'swhat you should push. All these d@#$e, umm, great replacements. I'm speechless about that. Too little sleep, too much time. Sleep deprivation = the brain's deadly enemy. Believe it or not I was thinking for some reason you were someone else's replacement beside Espe.
Did what in the thread?
I'd prefer you did it in thread, where we can see the interactions.In post 503, goodmorning wrote:As for HITD: I'd rather focus on you.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Because he's Scum.In post 513, VictorDeAngelo wrote:not really sure why she is going after Jon so hard.
I'm not entirely unwilling to compromise on HITD.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Let's do this then.
Vote: HITD
About the Shroomy-Matti-Victor thing... much of it seems like a great fuss over rather little.
There was a quote in there which now I can't find in which someone said they had heard Scum tend to be on the middle of a wagon.
[IC]Scum generally tend to do whatever the fuck they want. Confusing the VCA has become a thing recently. Yes, some hide in the middle. But some hide in plain sight by starting or ending wagons because WIFOM.[/IC]-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Whose vote are you saying is an OMGUS vote?In post 540, HiddenInTheDark wrote:Nice OMGUS vote there.
I've been scumreading you since I replaced in. I voted you because nobody seems to want to vote for jon.In post 550, HiddenInTheDark wrote:I've pretty much given it my all. If I die, I die. People will realize who is scum and I hope people push on who I think is the scum. GoodMorning pretty much voted me because I was at L-2 and she wasn't going to vote herself. So watch her.
Uh... What?In post 556, jon_h61 wrote:IF I'm NKd, Town please question gm about what she did in the night!
I would love it if you were to die, but between you and me we both know it's far more likely to be neil.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
I don't know what your point is here?In post 558, HiddenInTheDark wrote:I voted for Jon near the beginning, wasn't much to hold.
In what way?Also, your vote is an OMGUS vote.
Fun fact: I have never (outside jokes in RVS) OMGUS'd anybody.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Why would I say this and then kill neil anyway?In post 557, goodmorning wrote:I would love it if you were to die, but between you and me we both know it's far more likely to be neil.
Also, yes, I am familiar with neil. No, I probably wouldn't killthe one person who apparently believed I was Townover someone heavily suspecting me like jon, and if anyone wants to continue to speculate on the NK then they need to stop it because WIFOM is only beneficial to Scum. (OH HEY LOOK WHO BROUGHT IT UP EH?)
This is LyLo.In post 568, jon_h61 wrote:This is MYLO and is extremely important to the win.Ican't afford to be lynched anymore.
The wording of this comes from Scum. Excited Scum with an easy mislynch in LyLo.
I'll try and make it hard for you but I'm not sure what more I can do.
Gosh, Scum could never say anything like this! /sarcasmIf I was scum, I would have killed anyone but neil! That would have been a dance I would have never turned down!
Not sure whether to be flattered or disappoint.Scum did something smart when they killed him, so that another point against gm.
So tunneling worries you? Bullshit. You and I both know that a solid tunnel is not particularly alignment-indicative. You're getting overexcited at the prospect of winning this game and that's making you feel like you need an extremely solid case to seal the deal. You feeling like you need an extremely solid case to seal the deal is what's leading to you making graspy points. And you making graspy points should lead to other people realizing that something's not right here.In post 569, jon_h61 wrote:Another thing that worries me about gm is how she didn't want to try to address anyone else as scum when she was scum reading me. I attempted to engage her in looking at others several times. I think our(gm's and mine) next conversations are going to be critical to the game.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Obviously me asking you questions is totally not trying to figure you out or anything, nopeIn post 587, jon_h61 wrote:I'm sure as hell trying to get a good read on you, then I'll decide what else to do. Sure you san say you're doing the same, but all I see is you saying " You scum!" . I don't see that you're trying to work anything out.
Obviously you assuming I'm Scum and not really answering my questions means you are trying to figure me out, yup
Do you mean games in which I was alive in LyLo?In post 588, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm Can you give me a game or two that you endgamed in as Town? You've got a lot of games to have to go through just to be looking for that kind of info.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
O547 - Survived, Scum
LN169 - Survived, Town (game did not get to LyLo)
M289 - Survived, Town
N1458 - Survived, Town (game did not get to LyLo)
MT1520 - Survived, Scum (goodnight, hydra with Bulba)
MT1488 - Mislynched in LyLo, Town
O524 - Survived, Scum
N1426 - Endgamed, Town
This is all the games I've made it to LyLo/the end in since October, from most recent to least. I realise you requested Town ones specifically, but if someone else wants the Scum ones I don't want to go through them again.
Older ones are on my wiki. I can think of 2 in which I won as 3p and at least 3 in which I was mislynched in LyLo off the top of my head. Oh, and the one in which I was daykilled in LyLo by the Scum. That one... that one was weird.
You, specifically, might remember N1402.
PEDIT: You can lose in LyLo even if you aren't lynched, but only if you're Town.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
Actually all discussions of the NK are WIFOM.In post 595, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
So the conversation on the NK ends as soon as you defend yourself because everything else is WIFOM. Seems convenient. Answer me this, if Jon had been the NK who would have been the most likely to benefit?In post 575, goodmorning wrote:
Why would I say this and then kill neil anyway?In post 557, goodmorning wrote:I would love it if you were to die, but between you and me we both know it's far more likely to be neil.
Also, yes, I am familiar with neil. No, I probably wouldn't killthe one person who apparently believed I was Townover someone heavily suspecting me like jon, and if anyone wants to continue to speculate on the NK then they need to stop it because WIFOM is only beneficial to Scum. (OH HEY LOOK WHO BROUGHT IT UP EH?)
Presuming jon is Town, probably me. It would have gotten me out of a tunnel which wasn't going anywhere and gotten rid of the linchpin of the suspicion on me.
"I can't afford to be lynched anymore" is what I'm seeing in jon's post. It's a small, teasing "look at me I am so Town and you are so not haha."
This is LyLo.In post 568, jon_h61 wrote:This is MYLO and is extremely important to the win.Ican't afford to be lynched anymore.
The wording of this comes from Scum. Excited Scum with an easy mislynch in LyLo.
I'll try and make it hard for you but I'm not sure what more I can do.@GM- The bold seems off to me. What exactly are you seeing in Jon's post?
Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I'm annoyed.
Not really.
There seems to be some jumps in your thinking here GM.So tunneling worries you? Bullshit. You and I both know that a solid tunnel is not particularly alignment-indicative. You're getting overexcited at the prospect of winning this game and that's making you feel like you need an extremely solid case to seal the deal. You feeling like you need an extremely solid case to seal the deal is what's leading to you making graspy points. And you making graspy points should lead to other people realizing that something's not right here.
In post 579, goodmorning wrote:Fine. Pretend both of us are Town for a minute. Who in the hell is Scum?
Any follow up coming for either of these questions guys?In post 582, jon_h61 wrote:@gm What's your thoughts on Victor?
He followed up mine. He said, basically, IDEK. Yet he expects me to have an answer to it.
I didn't follow up his, because he keeps multiposting and I keep missing them. The answer to it is that I still think you somewhat likely to be Scum, though I am considering Shroomy with that vote/unvote despite the convincing claim.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
I have issues with that one particular phrase perhaps because of annoyance. My read on you is much much more than that.In post 598, jon_h61 wrote:In post 597, goodmorning wrote:Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I'm annoyed.Ifyou're Town, and you're scum reading me because you're annoyed at me, I ask you to take another look and see if you think I'm trying to out scum or not. The warm fuzzy feelings will come when we lynch scum.
Yeah, I'm going to be sliding back posting and working more on reading for this reason.Plus I'd really like the others to show up so there can be some interactions with them.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
In post 598, jon_h61 wrote:
You're right I didn't give out any scum reads yet, and it might have been unfair to ask for yours. I'm still working on figuring you out. Plus I'd really like the others to show up so there can be some interactions with them.In post 597, goodmorning wrote:He followed up mine. He said, basically, IDEK. Yet he expects me to have an answer to it.
1. And here I thought it would be difficult to contradict oneself within 8 posts.In post 606, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm Forget about me, who else is scum? I want your opinion because if you're Town, who might be on the block soon, you should be trying to point me to the true scum.
2. You were the one who brought up the fact that this is, in fact, LyLo/MyLo. If I get lynched the game is over. I hardly need to pointanyonetoanyother Scum but you, because you chose this battle and I'm fairly sure I don't get to win it.
3. I've stated my opinion multiple times. You, on the other hand, seem to have been taking an awful lot of posts to say an awful lot of nothing. If nobody is willing to see this, fine. I'll at least be able to take it as a teaching opportunity.
If you really felt this way you would have stomped my lynch through yesterday. Why didn't you?In post 604, jon_h61 wrote:The truth is I think you have to die for Town to win, and I'm asking town to step up, if they think I'm right.
(Keep in mind that "benefit of the doubt" has no place in games of Mafia, and that you were the main driving force behind my reaching L-1.)
@Everyone who isn't jon:
1. Does anyone have any objections to narrowing today's lynch field to jon and me?
2. Now would be a good time to ask me any questions that you could possibly want answered.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
What point do you think I'm trying to make? Does everything I say have to be making a point?In post 613, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
What point are you trying to make?In post 612, goodmorning wrote:Is it just me, or do you talk about jon twice as often as you talk about anyone else?
What question?Also, why didn't you answer my question?In post 607, goodmorning wrote:@Everyone who isn't jon:
1. Does anyone have any objections to narrowing today's lynch field to jon and me?
2. Now would be a good time to ask me any questions that you could possibly want answered.-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
-
-
goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10204
- Joined: October 15, 2012
- Pronoun: Any
- Location: THE SWAMPS OF MOSQUITOEY HELL (aka Orlando, FL)
I mean, pretty much everything.In post 661, jon_h61 wrote:@ gm What made you think that I was scum, enough that you called for a 1v1? I'll take any constructive criticism, I'll even listen to plain criticism. Thatseemsto be my main problem, right now.
I started reading convinced that we were going to be Scum together. When we weren't I figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but some of your arguments just struck me as too... shallow? I don't know if that's really the word I mean, but it works, I guess.
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.