Newbie 1478 -- Game Over

[Wisdom]

Hai! I love L-1 slots.

Reading!

[Wisdom]

Finished reading, reads coming soon

[Wisdom]

Town: {notscience, GuyInFreezer, Freak}

notscience: First and foremost, meta. This is quite obviously town-ns, relaxed, challenging people, posting whatever the hell comes to mind without a care. Do you think he looks annoying? It's more of a sign he is town. He's not this annoying as scum.
But since we're in a newbie game and most of you don't care about meta: His play in this game is direct, blatant, he tries to figure out people, he tries to work with his reads, he tries to forms townblocks - all of these are town traits. His behavior around the D1 lynch showed a townie eager to lynch scum - he pressed people to hammer his scumread as opposed to sit back and wait. The annoying playstyle may be distracting, but don't let scum use it as an excuse to push him.

GuyInFreezer: Strong townread since the first pages. He posted a lot, he did some nice blatant things to provoke reactions such as his L-1 vote in 86, he asked the right questions to try and read people - all these remind me of town-GIF. Scum-GIF is a little more shy, if memory serves. Of course he did become more inactive later, but since this is apparently due to RL stuff, it doesn't mean anything.

Freak: Very town too. I love his posts, they show how comfortable he is and how much fun he is having. He is also new, and, while not unheard of, it is typically unlikely for newbscum to be able to post in such a way. He pushed people a lot, didn't stop until he got the answers he looked for, and there were even posts where he was crystal clear about his thought processes - see 279 for example. This takes balls to fake as scum, especially from a newbie.

Nullscum: {Pondus, Vega}

Pondus: I find his posting style a little weird. I feel that in some cases he's stating obvious things (309 for example) which could be IIoA. There are other posts that I like from him - 339 for example looks like it comes from town because of the way he cancels out his own argument. It shows that he is thinking while he is posting as opposed to carefully planning what to post. Eh, due to the other three above him being much stronger reads, I include him in the nullscum category.

Vega: Another posting style that I don't like, and I ended up skipping some of his posts as they were tiring to read. My understanding is that he vote-jumps around a lot, has mostly opportunistic reasoning for the reads he provides (607 for example, he translates a specific behavior from notscience to a scum-motivated action without thinking of the alternatives, despite stating that he was unsure on the read.. or something. His posts are confusing.) The thing that troubles me here is the whole "I don't know how this game works", which would be a brilliant act if Vega is actually scum. I have actually seen newbies putting on such acts however, so I'm trying to push that aside. Newbies are not to be underestimated - the newbcard is evil.

Scum: {RachMarie}

RachMarie: You'll excuse me for using meta again, but it's impossible to read Rach without using meta. I have had like 8 completed games with her and she was town in all of them; in most of those games, she was heavily suspected and usually lynched, because of her weird playstyle that makes her appear scummy - lurking, posting things that are obvious, misunderstanding things and being slow, and more things like that. Well, I'm seeing a huge difference to that here. Rach is actually decent, she even put forward a case. But most notably: She has been tunneling on one slot. I don't think I remember Rach having done such a thing ever. She is always unsure about people and very rarely tries to lead the town into lynching someone like she has been trying to do in this game. Here, she voted sthehill in 257 (with weak reasons at that), and since then she pushed nobody else, with the exception of voting fused for deadline purposes. And almost every single post of hers today has contained "Marquis is scum" in some form. So apparently that means that scum-Rach likes to tunnel. Let's see how she will like it that she now has to tunnel on me of all people.

VOTE: Rach

[Wisdom]

Proof:

1402
1420
1436

Must be scum

lynch pls

I guess this isn't serious, but I've replaced in many more town newbies

[Wisdom]

Also state intent if you ever want to hammer me

[Wisdom]

What about the rest? Have you seen town-Rach tunneling?

[Wisdom]

Link me to a game where you tunneled this much as town.

What was scummy about Marquis' play? You kept spamming that he is scum hut never explained why.

[Wisdom]

1. Survivalistic

How? And don't tell me you mean his voting the counterwagon at the end of yesterday. Town has as much a reason as scum to do that, as while they don't know the alignment of the others, they KNOW they themselves are town.

2. posted no real content just posted to post. (Active Lurking)

3. The OMGUS vote no real other reads.

Explain how these are scumtells, especially coming from Marquis of all people. I'm quite sure you've played with him before (Con Mafia comes to mind)

[Wisdom]

I don't know of anyone who wants to die, do you?

I'm still waiting for the game where you tunneled this hard as town

[Wisdom]

While you do tunnel in these games, it's not to the point of doing nothing else and spamming "x is scum" all the time. Or not providing reads on others.

What are your reads on everyone else?

[Wisdom]

But I do not think both are likely to be scum. I would say Pondus is more likely than Vega.

Can you explain both of these?

[Wisdom]

regarding notscience I do find the urgency in pushing to lynch fused (see post 529) somewhat suggestive of "new" mafia player behavior - this has been a major factor in my voting for him.

I'm not sure what you mean here, are you calling ns newbscum? Because ns is not a newbie.

[Wisdom]

As for Wisdom's read on myself - well, I can see why my behavior might seem suspicious to someone (in fact, if I was scum, I probably would have posted pretty similarly to what I have been doing), but I am a very careful person by nature - I hate making mistakes. I was not convinced about fused on D1, so I did not vote for him - as I have said before, I only felt I had a solid read on BPC, and he was killed on the first night. I just do not aggressively push people - if that makes me suspicious in your eyes, there isn't much I can do about it.

I do like the fact you are trying to explain your thought processes without being asked to. It shows that you have nothing to hide.

[Wisdom]

Vega seems to be trying to get the hang of the game and trying to figure out how to scum hunt.

What makes you confident that Vega wasn't just acting?

Why are you saying that it's one or the other (Vega or Pondus)? Can't they both be scum?

[Wisdom]

Read through Pondus's ISO Wis, it is fairly wordy but he really is not SAYING much. More noise less content when you strip away the extra words.

I have, did you see my read on him?

[Wisdom]

Vega, what are your reads right now?

[Wisdom]

because as scum I think it'd be very difficult to insist so long on your wagon when there is one on a townie that just needs a hammer.

That's not true. As long as they themselves are not getting lynched, scum don't care which townie gets lynched - in fact it's better for them if their "scumread" doesn't get lynched so they can continue pushing it the next day. Also, scum know that the person being pushed is town and by opposing the lynch, they get credit when the flip happens (like how you townread Rach when the flip happened)

[Wisdom]

Gif I assume you're scumreading Vega? Why no vote?

[Wisdom]

GIF I can't read wisdom worth a shit usually what do I do

Don't worry yourself, I'm town.

[Wisdom]

Vega seems to be trying to get the hang of the game and trying to figure out how to scum hunt.

What makes you confident that Vega wasn't just acting?

Why are you saying that it's one or the other (Vega or Pondus)? Can't they both be scum?

Rach

[Wisdom]

Why couldn't it be?

And there was one more question there.

[Wisdom]

That's not very convincing.

So assuming Pondus is scum, who is the buddy?

[Wisdom]

sup
Finished reading yet?

[Wisdom]

I do not like being pushed, but ....

Vote RachMarie

Explain?

[Wisdom]

Guys, less than 3 days left.

GIF, did you finish yet?
Vega, any reads?
Rach, I believe you didn't answer to my question - if Pondus is scum, who is his buddy?

[Wisdom]

I see you said nothing about Vega - would you consider supporting a Vega lynch?

[Wisdom]

he did not support fused's lynching in #545

545 is not a Vega post, but regardless, how is that a towntell?

[Wisdom]

I have lost to newbie scum enough to not consider the newbcard as a viable argument. How do we know that his whole "idk wtf I'm doing" wasn't an act?

[Wisdom]

I like the thought process you're displaying there - I don't agree much with it, as you are making the classic newbie mistakes of generalizing what town and scum would do; Nothing prevents scum from being pushy and aggressive and nothing prevents town from being complete apathetic idiots - but it shows you are actually trying to look at things and figure out what's happening and that is more good points for you. Regarding the NK, there could be lots of reasons we don't see depending on who the scum is; maybe they thought they spotted a PR slip, maybe they tried to frame someone, or maybe they killed him because they thought he is too town. Trying to speculate about that won't do much good.

Re: your scumpairs - half of them I know to be wrong, and 2 of the other 3 I consider unlikely given ns is pretty town. I could reconsider my GIF read, but I still believe Vega to be more likely than him.
After you look at the scumpairs the way you described, try looking at a Rach-Vega pair too, as PoE says that's the most likely pair right now, at least from where I'm standing.

[Wisdom]

Rach or Vega. Though I'll move to Pondus if no lynch is the alternative.

[Wisdom]

I think there is at least one experienced player on the scum team

What makes you assume that?

[Wisdom]

Why would anyone kill you when all you've done is deathtunnel on town? What's intimidating about that?

[Wisdom]

Newbie does not mean stupid, Rach.

[Wisdom]

I'm not arguing they are both scum, in fact Pondus looks town now. I just dislike your certainty that they are not scum together.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: not_mafia

[Wisdom]

Everyone can't be null

[Wisdom]

There are 6 people other than yourself. You sheeped the townreads everyone agrees on (Freak, Pondus), the scumread that is the only viable wagon other than you (Rach) and gave null on everyone else. That equals zero content.

[Wisdom]

And even your argument for voting Rach is basically a copy from what I said.

[Wisdom]

I'm not even a wagon, ns just loves me.

I recently stated how I disliked Rach displaying a certainty that you/Pondus is not a possible scumteam and using that to argue someone not newbie is scum. The reason you gave on Rach is basically this.

[Wisdom]

What do you mean like you and TIP?

[Wisdom]

true dat
But he hasn't really been acting that way here.

[Wisdom]

Why are you claiming..?

[Wisdom]

You're not, I unvoted

[Wisdom]

I already explained to you that what you said was not a towntell in any way.

[Wisdom]

RachMarie and Wisdom

I assume you meant RachMarie and Freak?

[Wisdom]

Rach is right, it's easier to read back and find connections when you have a flip.

Regardless of the flip though, I'll be looking at GIF next, because I don't like his disappearance at all. You, Freak and ns should be town, so it's either GIF or Rach that is the buddy.

[Wisdom]

Anyhow 22 hours left, Pondus or ns should hammer asap.

[Wisdom]

I wasn't in the game N1?

[Wisdom]

That's me being convenient for y'all

Meaning?

[Wisdom]

That means you don't think I'm scum? Who is it?

[Wisdom]

- not waiting for counterclaims

What? Why would he wait for counterclaims if he knows himself to be the doc?

[Wisdom]

Yeah GIF could still be scum as we are not guaranteed to have a doc.

Something else that troubles me is that Freak is still alive. Who the hell would kill ns over Freak?

[Wisdom]

sup Xay, are you town?

[Wisdom]

Lylo is up, and we have a doc claim. The question is whether GIF is fakeclaiming knowing there is no doc, or if he's actually the doc.

[Wisdom]

That you're scum. How the hell did you miss the cop claim?

[Wisdom]

Not buying it

[Wisdom]

I don't think Pondus is crosbussing, so prolly GIF/Rach

[Wisdom]

Not me, nope

[Wisdom]

That wasn't his sole reason?

[Wisdom]

Which he then explained that he meant counterclaim for the cop. Are you even reading?

[Wisdom]

Why so confident its GIF? He actually makes some sense and I fail to see why he would kill ns.

[Wisdom]

why would scum keep you in lylo?

No idea, but I haven't been really good in this game so I'm not surprised either. What I dont get is why ns over your slot.

[Wisdom]

Because they think they can push me, possibly. Rach has been on my slot the whole game, she has nobody else to push. That's also why I'd expect GIF to be pushing me, but he isn't.

Your slot was a global townread, it doesn't make sense they didn't kill you

[Wisdom]

Also unvote, it might still be pondus/Rach

[Wisdom]

Which is why I don't understand the ns kill coming from GIF. They could much more easily try to lynch ns than me.

Pedit: We're definitely not lynching outside GIF/Pondus, no quickhammering means at least one of them is scum.

Why is Pondus town?

[Wisdom]

Nvm, missed your post.
Eh, I'm not sure. I have felt he is town in general but newbies can be pretty awesome at scum sometimes.

[Wisdom]

Can you unvote?

[Wisdom]

What if they're crossbussing?

[Wisdom]

I don't recall him wanting GIF's lynch though. Just suspecting him is reasonable, especially considering GIF's play.

Possibilities; Lynching Rach today would be dangerous because of that.

[Wisdom]

That should have made the cop claim somewhat plausible...and yet he went and hammered.

Except that if he didn't see the cop claim as he said, then it doesn't matter whether he was the doc or not.

[Wisdom]

In general the scum have played this game well...better than the townies....but I would encourage people to go back and check how townies were manipulated anto lynching other townies....and who did the manipulation. Draw your own conclusions.

This is narrative building. Explain to us who you are accusing of manipulating people instead of implying things.

[Wisdom]

Xay what do you think of Pondus' recent posts? I think I'm leaning on him being scum more than GIF.

[Wisdom]

liked the first half of 902

What did you like about it? He is trying to use flawed reasoning to incriminate GIF. If GIF saw the claim and hammered, then he's scum. The fact he is doc is irrelevant if he actually didn't see the claim.

[Wisdom]

I don't think whether he saw it or not is relevant.

The point is what Pondus is arguing. He is arguing that because GIF is doc, he should believe the cop claim, while it was nowhere stated that GIF didn't

believe

the cop claim.

[Wisdom]

I mean you're correct that if he's a doc he should know there is a cop or a tracker in play, but that's an entire different argument and not what Pondus was saying.

[Wisdom]

btw what do your 9 games with Rach say about her?

Like I said when I got in, I haven't seen Rach hardtunneling like she did on Marquis before. After I got in she stopped doing it and went back to her quiet self, which I interpret as her being intimidated by my presence. My only issue is that then it doesn't make sense why she didn't kill me.. Unless scum know there is a doc and for some reason thought ns was it.

[Wisdom]

Nothing special about the rest, she was mostly quiet.

[Wisdom]

The Marq thing was from the beginning until I got in. Then she quieted down.

[Wisdom]

Nope

[Wisdom]

I have not seen any of her derpy obvscum-but-actually-town tells that define her here. It was just IC stuff, a tunnel on a viable target, then back to lurking when the target became non-viable.

[Wisdom]

I'm leaning Pondus/Rach much more. Pondus was very scummy in his last posts and the way he trdied to make GIF look scummy looks more like he's going for the mislynch than bussing. And GIF actually sounds honest.

[Wisdom]

It could be, but her hardtunneling was very uncharacteristic of her. She has tunneled as town before, but not to the extent of posting nothing other than "Marquis is scum guys"

[Wisdom]

Dunno, guess it can happen. Besides, it's more likely that he actually had weird choices than fakeclaiming weird choices when he had time to prepare them.

[Wisdom]

Pondus will be eligible for a prod tomorrow.

2 days 8 hours > 48 hours

[Wisdom]

I need to reread the previous days and do some VCA stuffs

Rach is that coming anytime soon?

[Wisdom]

Why?

Because if the scumteam is You/Rach, Rach would hammer and win.

[Wisdom]

Ah, didn't realise there was only 9 minutes between Xayzeck's vote and that post. Why didn't you tell him to unvote as soon as he voted?

I did tell him right away, I just didn't see it right away because I was typing a reply. How does that matter?

[Wisdom]

Why did you feel the need to rule out Wisdom and you from being a thing?

What kind of question is that? It brings knowledge to the town that the particular scumteam isn't possible, so they get closer to finding the actual one.

[Wisdom]

No, it's pretty much guaranteed at least one of you/GIF is scum. The possible scumteams are:

GIF/Rach
GIF/Ivan
GIF/Wisdom
GiF/Xay
Ivan/Rach
Ivan/Wisdom
Ivan/Xay

Now I know two of them are impossible and I also find Xay being scum completely impossible given both his and his predecessor's play, so it basically boils down to

GIF/Rach
GIF/Ivan
Ivan/Rach

[Wisdom]

I suppose it wasn't needed but that helped proving it faster. What actually is important is that Xay didn't consider a Wisdom/Ivan team when he voted GIF.

@Xay, why?

[Wisdom]

Why? Just because of the hammer?

[Wisdom]

Feeling better about him.

[Wisdom]

GiF/Wis

GiF/Rach

leaning rach.

Here too. You're not considering Pondus(Ivan)-scum at all. Sure, the blatant hammer on a cop is one of the scummiest things one can do, but it doesn't justify ignoring possibilities like that.

[Wisdom]

Hammer was bad. He has the "I didn't see it and was rushing deadline" excuse, which I hate because I can't say is a bad reason if it was legit.

Which means you can't be sure about it.

The claim was too convenient. Someone who hammers the claimed cop is almost confirm gonna get roped the next da-woops nope he's the doc oh well

Sure it does, but what if he actually

is

the doc?

The night 1 protection doesn't make sense to me as well.

Lots of things town do don't make sense. That's not a scumtell.

None of these justify you taking it for granted GIF is scum and blatantly strike out scumteams that don't include him.

[Wisdom]

to be fair, yeah it would've been smarter to consider GiF/Ivan too

The question is why you didn't consider Wisdom/Ivan. I could have hammered there and the game would be over.

[Wisdom]

Wis you know how I'm not sure of reads as town

And you know how I'm super sure of GiF scum upon replacing in

Meaning? That you aren't town?

[Wisdom]

I'm taking back my Xay townread. Maybe GIF/Xay with Xay bussing him?

[Wisdom]

I don't get your question. All scumteams aside from me/Ivan, you/Rach, you/me are still possible.

[Wisdom]

Wis you know how I'm not sure of reads as town

You have yet to explain this. Yes, you aren't sure of reads as town so explain how you can be so sure of GIF-scum to the point of ignoring possible scumteams.

[Wisdom]

If we lynch GiF, and he flips scum, and I die, who will you choose between Rach and Ivan?

If that happened, probably Rach. But I doubt you're dying.

[Wisdom]

That makes sense now, yes.

So GIF claimed on purpose to draw the counterclaim. And that also explains the kill on ns.

[Wisdom]

They were hunting for the doc. Otherwise there were much better kills than ns.

[Wisdom]

Ivan looks pretty comfortable with the whole situation so I really doubt he is scum.

GIF/Rach it is.

Do we wait for Rach's promised vca or are we good to go?

[Wisdom]

Because I took it for granted we are in the docless setup when I saw no counterclaims.

[Wisdom]

That is, if GIF was lying.

[Wisdom]

But it was probably for the better you didn't cc, especially since you weren't under much suspicion.

[Wisdom]

I'd like to see what she has to say first

[Wisdom]

On D1 GiF was off the wagon and Notty was on
On D2 Notty was off the wagon and GiF was on...

Even if I ignore that it's "for the wrong game" or whatever, this is poor VCA. One is off the wagon and one isn't and that's supposed to prove something?

VOTE: GIF

[Wisdom]

In case they kill me and keep you, consider Ivan a little more. He looks town but you never know, Pondus was kinda scummy at times.

[Wisdom]

I'm heavily leaning Rach over Ivan here. Rach, I'll give you a chance to convince me otherwise, but I don't see myself changing my mind.

[Wisdom]

Here

[Wisdom]

Why would I make a case on Ivan when I think it's you?

You have one more post to convince me otherwise.

[Wisdom]

Hi Knell, are you town?

[Wisdom]

What are your first impressions from skimming?

[Wisdom]

Xay was acting weird, I know him and he's never so sure with reads, and I didn't think that he could be a doc since he didn't counterclaim at first so I thought he might be bussing GIF.

[Wisdom]

I really don't wanna think it's you with Ivan leaving so close to getting the win. He was guaranteed to win if he was scum since I really doubt I'll change my mind today. And he had all this time and didn't try to finish it, and now he left.

[Wisdom]

I'll wait for both you to read and for Rach to make a proper post, because truth be told, it troubles me a little how it feels like you're waiting for me to vote.

[Wisdom]

Then why would you want me to vote?

[Wisdom]

That was meant to make her take this seriously if she is town and I'm reading her wrong as she claims, but apparently it failed. Unfortunately with Rach, it doesn't mean anything as she can be derpy at times.

The point here is why you're encouraging me to vote, not why you think I would vote

[Wisdom]

?

[Wisdom]

Everytime I've townread you lately you were obvtown, in this game you were playing completely different than your town meta, deathtunneling on my predecessor and doing nothing.
And me being alive means fuckall since there was a doctor and the scum were hunting for him.

[Wisdom]

Im not sure what you want to say with those quotes

[Wisdom]

Didnt he only vote Pondus in D3 when they crossvoted? I don't remember him pushing Pondus before

[Wisdom]

who you consider you

I consider them or they consider me? I lost you

And frankly while I appreciate what you're doing, you can't meta based on games you haven't played. You will just read what you want to read.

[Wisdom]

Anyhow most recent scumgames:

Micro 316
Micro 299
Micro 290
Micro 284
Newbie 1458

[Wisdom]

I usually bus if I think my partner is scummy enough. I have a hard time saying "they're being so scummy but I'll just ignore it"; I get paranoid others will see it and it's better I say it before others do. Many times it's just the bias of knowing they are scum, but alas.

But yeah, I don't have a standard game as any alignment.

[Wisdom]

I don't think it was attaching, it was more "I need to have some townreads so I'll strongly townread this guy". Scum don't defend each other in early stages, they distance.

[Wisdom]

Re: bold, do you refer to this?

Hey notsci do you think we should move on or are you not yet satisfied with the results yet?

I see this is as more buddying with notscience ("let's work together cuz we're both town") than asking for permission.

[Wisdom]

Quotes would help, I just remember that he was strongly townreading my slot.

[Wisdom]

I still don't think GIF was trying to paint him as a scumbuddy. It just looks like a fake strong townread.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: rach

[Wisdom]

This is a hard thing to do and I'm already terrible at making lengthy cases and stuff, but I understand your position so I'll try.

I scumread Rach correctly upon my entrance, because all Rach had done up to that point was hardtunnel on my slot without even explaining what she found scummy about it. This was simply not town-Rach, I've played 9 games with town-Rach and she doesn't tunnel like this. She states what her read is, she tries to figure out if it's correct, sometimes she may even make a case, but that's it. I've never seen her posting "x is scum" and nothing else 5 times in a row.

And then, this read that was all she had offered to the game disappeared when I entered the slot. Why? Did the slot become town because I entered it? No. She just knew that she can't hope to push me. She knows me and she knows that it's a deathwish for scum to try and get me lynched.

Then there was not any of her usual derpness anywhere in this game. See for example how she wrongly thinks she is at L-1 and claims in this game or how she wrongly thinks she got lynched and lots of things like this where she doesn't pay attention or takes wrong things for given etc. All these stuff usually make her seem really scummy to everyone who doesn't know her, but to me, I can instantly tell she is obvtown. So that is the first thing I look for when I play with her. There was nothing here, the closest thing to it was her "Knell, do you realize GIF was scum?" as if you had just said he wasn't, but it can't compare to what I'm talking about.

What else? I dunno, her reads since I replaced in were pretty unclear and wishy-washy and she wasn't taking any strong stances. She was much more loud before I got in, which shows she got intimidated by my presence in general. She didn't try to analyze and figure things out at any point and both her attempts at doing VCA are more a "look im trying to do things" deal than trying to actually make some sense. Especially the first time, where she was like "ok one scum off the wagon and one on it, so x is scum".

If there's something specific you'd like me to comment on, like why I did something I did (obv can't talk about my predecessors), I can help you see my thought processes. Just don't get WIFOM'd into choosing wrong, the lylo going on for so long is already harmful. Best lylos are quick lylos in my experience.

[Wisdom]

Ok yes we do have an extension but its a couple days and change, and we have one player on V/LA til after the deadline great

I am VT

Why are you claiming..?

I am at L-1 with one person on V/LA til after the new deadline.

This game.

Oh right, I completely forgot about that, so scratch that point. I guess she does such stuff regardless of alignment then.

[Wisdom]

You guess?

I haven't played with Rach-scum before, so I thought those derp moments showed genuineness. But now I see she can have them as scum too, which means they aren't alignment indicative.

[Wisdom]

Your insticts would be right.

[Wisdom]

How much did you inflate your initial reads to get out of your lynch? Your Guyinfreezer read in particular read as fake.

I didn't inflate anything, those are the reads I got upon catching up. GIF posting seemed pretty town at the time and the only thing I disliked was his inactivity, which isn't a tell.

[Wisdom]

#1116: Contradicts #671: Explain the contradiction as to why it wouldn't matter in my case, but it would matter when asking Rachmarie, instead of simply diverting her attention.

There's no contradiction. Rach was claiming that she tunnels like she did here as town, which I know untrue after having played enough with her. I was asking her to prove her statement. It could be a contradiction if I went into her games that I wasn't in myself.

[Wisdom]

#692: mediating, communication. Are you deliberately jumping town tells?

I am responding to a supposed towntell that I consider incorrect and I see plenty of newbies getting wrong. In non-newbie games I would probably call that bullshit, here I tried to make him learn it's incorrect.

[Wisdom]

You pretty much only pushed RachMarie aggressively and called her reasons weak. But you didn't call other player's reason's weak. Why?

Because I didn't think any other player's reasons were weak? Rach was who I thought is scum so that's who I pushed.

[Wisdom]

#756: Gif read you could reconsider, but you felt that he was "still" less likely than Vega even though GIf had not posted up to this point and was essentially catching up.

I was still townreading GIF and he still had done nothing to change that read, so yes. Vega was actually pretty scummy and he seemed much more likely at that point.

[Wisdom]

#760: No room for Guyinfreezer over Pondus who you kept calling town. Why?

Pondus was the other wagon at the time, GIF had no votes. My choices were stay on Vega and try to get people on him, move to Pondus as a compromise, or no-lynch.

[Wisdom]

#Why was Not_Mafia a stronger read then Rachmarie? You've tied up and argued down town reads on town. Also, tells of any sort are debatable, you're arguing the town read down, but not using it to read Pondus.

I disliked his entrance and how he called everyone null. If I recall, he was voting Rach, so that made me think that maybe I'm wrong about Rach and Not_Mafia is sheeping me on a wrong read. So I moved there.

[Wisdom]

The rest of the questions in a few hours because I gotta go

[Wisdom]

#810, didn't you already look at Guyinfreezer?

No? GIF was still nowhere to be found and had posted nothing since the post I said I could reconsider my townread on him.
I'm sure someone asked you this, but how the fuck did you even think Guyinfreezer could not be mafia at this point?[/quote]
What? I was actually saying that he or Rach should be Not_Mafia's buddy, that's the opposite of saying he couldn't be mafia.

[Wisdom]

"Could still be scum," to "You're mafia" when he shows up.

There's a day change and two townflips in between. And a quickhammer. Really?

[Wisdom]

Oh you were talking about my 842. Yeah, I realized his doc claim doesn't conftown him and that he could still be scum. Then I actually thought he is probably scum as his excuse didn't seem logical.

[Wisdom]

#879: You prevented Guyinfreezer from being confirmed scum. Xayzack exchange and protection of Guyinfreezer is consistent with the power role idea. Wouldn't he only do this as doc

How was I supposed to know Xay is a doc? When I saw no counterclaim I assumed we either are playing the docless setup and GIF is safely fakeclaiming, or that he's saying the truth. Now that you know Xay was doc it might seem obvious to you, but try assuming that in real time without knowing and after seeing no counterclaim.

Pondus/Rach still seemed pretty likely to me so I wanted Xayzeck to unvote.

[Wisdom]

#907: You didn't think that town could build narratives? You've been completely veering away from Guyinfreezer the whole game. Did NS die because he was voting you? What were you trying to think about when it came to the kill?

Narrative building is a scumtell where someone tries to make people see a point on their own through implying instead of stating it clearly. What Pondus was doing looked exactly like this.

I don't understand the rest of the question, but ns almost definitely died because scum thought he's the doc (scum knew we're in the doc/cop because they have a roleblocker)

[Wisdom]

#916: Why were you ignoring when Xayzack caught Guyinfreezer when he said he rolled a die amongst his town reads, when he said he had protected Marquis because he was his strongest town read? You're completely ignoring it.

Because that seemed silly on Xay's part and I assumed he was tunneling. What GIF was saying made sense, Xay was just sticking to a technicality. (Of course Xay knew GIF was scum already, that's why.) I was trying to make Xay consider the Pondus possibility too and stop tunneling.

[Wisdom]

#935: You were involved with Rachmare, even asked her why she went to L-1, and you forgot twice, while arguing it with two different people.
Sounds honest?

I didn't remember that at all, possibly because when I entered the game and actually looked for such stuff I found nothing, so I stopped looking for them.

[Wisdom]

#997: You're not taking hints here. Really big ones. Busing mention, Xay/Guyinfreezer you'd know Guyinfreezer was the role cop and therefore you'd have to exclude the bussing comment due to Guyinfreezer's slip if you were scum, that's why it's a nice touch.

I was seeing a player I know doesn't push his reads strongly as town do just that. Again I had discarded the possibility we're in a doc/cop with a different doc completely when there was no counterclaim. What I'm supposed to think? He wasn't even considering Pondus and it was making me crazy. Again, it might make sense now, but try putting yourself in my shoes and deal with it without the knowledge.

[Wisdom]

The mention of poor "VCA" has little purpose

I have tried doing VCA myself as scum in an attempt to appear useful and possibly not get lynched. It failed because my conclusions were weak and forced. That's exactly the case with Rach's ones too.

[Wisdom]

Pretty sure you used inactivity to pressure someone.

To pressure maybe, but it's not a scumtell on its own. Inactivity can happen for tons of reasons unrelated to alignment.

[Wisdom]

welp

[Wisdom]

nah Knell,

you

did amazing and you deserve this win. You really looked at everything. I believe anyone else would be convinced by how consistent I was in faking I don't know there is a doc.
Rach is a difficult person to 1v1 as well, because she's simple and direct unlike people who try hard and appear scummy. I practically had nothing against her.
Huge mistake on my part to not push for the Rach lynch at the beginning of the day, but I didn't anticipate Ivan leaving the game. I'm pretty sure Ivan wouldn't have lynched me.

gz Town.

[Wisdom]

Hey I've been in lylo as town like 3 times!

but it was like 2 years ago

[Wisdom]

Now see this fun fact

Last time I was scum in lylo:

NJAC, I'll be honest with you, I'm heavily leaning you over Mittens. And if I was anyway thinking you make the most sense as Phd's buddy, your "stop being silly and just vote him" in 909 more or less sealed the deal.

So, I'll give you a chance to convince me otherwise, but I don't see myself changing my mind.

Now:

I'm heavily leaning Rach over Ivan here. Rach, I'll give you a chance to convince me otherwise, but I don't see myself changing my mind.

Yeah, I literally copied that, because it won me the game last time. Unfortunately Rach isn't NJAC.
But the funny part is when Knell started meta'ing, I was wondering if he would find that