Newbie 1509: The Devil's Run (Game Over)

[Alina]

Oh, awesome, it's open.~ Hey guys, this is my first Mafia game, well, ever. Though, I have read a couple earlier games on the site though a couple months back (though all of them were before the switch to matrix6, so the setup is new to me.) Anyways, let's get started:

VOTE: shaddowez

Shadows are, typically, a bad thing.

[Alina]

Hello all, trusty neighborhood SE here.

Vote Alina

First to break the wagon is always scum IMO.

Huh? I was under the impression a wagon consisted of more than a single vote. I guess I was wrong? Also, I would think it would be more scummy if someone were to actually start piling votes on people this early on, if anything. Actually, nevermind, scratch that. Now that I actually think about it, I highly doubt scum would do that and it would be more of a town tell.

Also, I just noticed how many "thoughs," I used in my first post. I should probably avoid using that word from now on, the other ones in my vocabulary need attention, too.

[Alina]

Yeah, I came to that conclusion in the middle of my last post. To be honest, I hadn't even known Huntress had posted when I was making mine. We posted like 30 seconds apart or something. I don't think I would've actually voted luc even if I saw her post, however. I'm glad you've started conversation though, I was trying to brainstorm something to come up with if nothing had really happened after a while.

[Alina]

Hm, because, as you said, it's a usual occurrence. If someone were to not participate in it, some people are likely to ask them why not, and so on, meaning, conversation probably starts even without the use of those methods.

[Alina]

Glad to see other people are here. Jopalopa, may I ask why you chose to vote Formerfish? I could understand voting someone who hadn't said much for an RVS vote, but he's been one of the people who said something substantial at the point you made your post. So, I'm a bit confused as to why you would choose to vote him for RVS. Care to elaborate why you voted him, like, is it you're reading him scummy, or is it really just RVS? I'm curious.

And I agree with Clusk, that was a relatively defensive post, shadow, just based on a silly RVS.

[Alina]

RVS isn't really necessary to defend against -- it's all just to get the conversation started. How many games of Mafia have you read/participated in, Shadow?

[Alina]

omg I feel horrible I actually skimmed neil's wall as I assumed it was standard IC fare without any real commentary on the game/any RQS. Sorry!

1. How many games of Mafia have you played (specifically on Mafiascum.net) in your lifetime?

None. I've read a few games from a couple months back, though. Answered this earlier, but I'll answer it again bc why not.

2. What's most appealing about these games to you?

I enjoy stuff along these lines, detective/investigation like things and I like to see how good of a lie detector/liar I am.

3. What is your personality like usually? This is a pretty important question to decipher scumminess from personality, in my opinion.

Oh, god. I can be one way one day, and the complete opposite another day. I'm usually fairly timid, but I'm trying to be the opposite of that in this game, because being timid and not committing to anything/just sitting around is not going to make myself all that useful.

[Alina]

RVS isn't really necessary to defend against -- it's all just to get the conversation started. How many games of Mafia have you read/participated in, Shadow?

I've played about a half dozen games, but none of them on here, and haven't really used RVS in any of the games I've played. If anything, we usually start with FOS to get people talking

In advance: Sorry for the double post! I don't know if that's horribly frowned on here or not, but still, sorry.

And okay, that makes sense. I don't see too much harm in using votes early on, since FOS is more of just a vague threat that the person being voted on knows it means nothing, and actual votes on people can get them to react, I guess, in a more pressured way, as Formerfish said earlier. Making sure people are pressured/keeping conversation going, in my opinion, is the most important thing, because if we all just descend into lurkerdom...well...the scum laugh at us and then they win. Which isn't really what any of us should want.

[Alina]

Aw, I'm sorry, Neil!

And, I really place no importance on staying alive. If I get killed at night/lynched, I want to make sure I at least gave an effort to try and help win the game, you know? I don't want to just sit around and say nothing and say "gee I hope nobody notices me." That's just boring. Basically, even if I die, I want to at least make an impact. That's why I'm paying so much attention to the thread, haha. I don't want to be useless.

And, okay, good to know. Some other sites I post on basically crucify double posters so I was a little nervous.

And don't worry Shadow, I don't blame you. I understand some people just jump right in and that's not something I should just totally go "rah its defensive scumzor kill it!"

[Alina]

Yeah, I'm not gonna be answering that question until it's answered, sorry Formerfish. ^^ But I will answer your second. I think, probably detector. I've caught people in lies...well, a lot, IRL, but whenever I lie I usually start smiling out of nowhere which totally nullifies the point of it. I don't know what I'd be better at online, though.

Also, you said your personality can be different game to game...are there any prominent difference between your scum and town games?

And I agree with Clusk, we have a long period of time here, so I suggest we all use it to our advantage, because if we don't lynch today, chances are, that'll be a lot worse for us than us mislynching, so I do hope everyone's on board with lynching SOMEONE today. The information that can be gained from a mislynch can still be useful. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but some people are completely new to the site so I just want everyone to be on the same boat. I had something else that popped into my head earlier that I wanted to say when I got on but I can't remember what it is right now, so bleh.

[Alina]

Okay, I just noticed BabiSoup's RVS answers. Um...I don't really think "consistent," can be defined as a personality type. Consistently...what? Also, you said what you enjoy is "finding scum." What if you were to roll scum? What then? Ragequit? Your answers confuse me to many different ends, dude.

[Alina]

Most likely, scummy. There are some cases in which lying can be beneficial to town, I'm sure, but I would rather no one do it unless they're VERY confident it will pay off. Anyways, in regards to your personality, what do you typically act like in real life? That's what I went for for my answer.

Also,

Formerfish

/

Huntress

, what happened in your last newbie game together? (If you can't talk about the game because it's still ongoing, that's fine. Just tell me so.~)

[Alina]

Everyone except

Andrewseagull

, which is understandable since he's just replaced in.

Jopalopa

only popped in for five seconds and then proceeded to Houdini the heck out of here, but I hope we can hear from him again soon.

I've decided to just bold everyone's names from now on so people know when I'm talking about them or not. Seems like a decent idea.

[Alina]

I know we've been over the whole anwering-questions-towards-others thing, but

Clusk92

already answered it and I kinda want to chime in with my own opinion. I personally think a PR trying to "hide," from the scum is incredibly futile, and, ultimately, is more anti-town than it is town. If the scum figure out what they're doing and kill them after they hid all day...what have they done for town? Nothing. Except die. But that's not very useful. I think it would probably be best if everyone just contributed as best they can, regardless of their role. If we all do it, then as far as the scum know, we're all VTs and they're completely clueless. I think purposely hiding gives them more clues than it protects.

Also, you can count me in the clueless club right now. Every single time I start thinking something about someone and getting a read on them it 180s on their next post. I'm, unfortunately, so far, not as clever as I thought I was and I'm not really quite sure who I'd like to vote at this point. BUT, I do want to hear more from

Jopalopa

. I don't want someone to just post every 3 days when they have to before they get force-replaced, so...


VOTE: Jopalopa

Please talk, thanks. Give us thoughts. Answer questions. Come on. Please?

[Alina]

I'm pretty sure it's been over 48 hours, so...

can we please get a prod on Jopalopa?

I hope he hasn't decided to just vanish on us.

Done!

[Alina]

Sorry for not posting at all yesterday, guys.

Anyways, I'm glad that we got someone in Jopalopa's spot who's actually posting. I have a good feeling about them for now. Honestly, Clusk pretty much has the exact same reads I do, with the exception of two people, which is somewhat eerie, but whatever. I'll elaborate more on what my reads actually are, soon. I'm just waiting for someone to post first. I like Blueheaven's idea for making notes on thoughts of everyone's posts, so I'm going to actually do that now, it might give me a clearer idea on everyone, which I'm kind of lacking right now.

[Alina]

Actually, I changed my mind. Now that I've read everyone through, I know exactly where I want my vote to be, and right now.

VOTE: neil1113

I'll explain this: In his first post, it's pretty much all just typical IC stuff and then some typical RQS questions, but what I found interesting was in that post, he described his entire game so far!

His First Post: #16:

3. I'm a very blunt, straight-forward person in some games, though this can change depending on my mood. My scum game is very simple, I like to talk as much as possible without actually giving any information. It's called "Fluff." Something you'll probably see some people call out others for during this game. Fluff is saying a lot, without actually saying anything useful.

This summarizes his entire game so far. I'll go further and point out how truly contentless his posts have been.

Awesome! Good to see you playing here Shadow!

In post 23, Alina" omg I feel horrible I actually skimmed neil's wall as I assumed it was standard IC fare without any real commentary on the game/any RQS. Sorry!

It's okay....

#hatetheIC
#nobodycaresaboutNeil
#sadlife
#justkidding
#.....
#sortof

In post 233. What is your personality like usually? This is a pretty important question to decipher scumminess from personality, in my opinion.

Oh, god. I can be one way one day, and the complete opposite another day. I'm usually fairly timid, but I'm trying to be the opposite of that in this game, because being timid and not committing to anything/just sitting around is not going to make myself all that useful.

What importance do you place on staying alive or surviving in your approach to this game specifically?

P.Edit:

(means Post-Submit Edit, which is what somebody does when they hit submit on their post and realize that someone else has submitted something before them, and they'd like to respond to it without re-writing their entire post.)

Alina, nobody here really frowns to much on double posting or even triple posting. What's really significant is when you post a lot in a row or you post multiple times in a row, every time you post... that's when people take notice.:)

His Second Post: #25: More fluff, with "oh no hate the IC I am so sad." This seems kind of a way to make me feel sympathy for him or something, but either way, whether it is or not, it's just fluff. Then he asks me a question about how I treat staying alive in this game, which come on, isn't really all that great a question - you could ask it to anyone and you'd probably get the same answer unless they were an idiot. And then he answers my double post question. Not really suspect, but, still nothing really to do with the game yet.

His Third Post: #26: Asks if the mod can fix his quote fail...nothing really significant, I'm just writing all his posts out here because he only has four.

Hey guys, new to this site and came in as a replacement for someone.

What's the plan then, are we no lynching on the first town phase or taking a shot in the dark and going for someone?

Hi Andrew!

It's neither of those options. We have plenty of time to discuss so by the time we need to lynch someone we should have a better idea of who we think are the mafia. Aiming for a no-lynch just gives scum the opportunity to avoid giving anything away, and leaves us with no clues about alignments which will greatly hinder us later.

Precisely. We have 2 weeks of a deadline from the time this game began (you can see the deadline on the first page of this game, as well as on every vote count Baezu posts), which means we have 14 days to question people, force people to scum hunt, and find the inconsistencies of those pretending to scum hunt and call them out on their lack of town-motivation. :)

Oh goody.

Are we going to have a repeat of the last time we were in a newbie game together?

I don't find Formerfish scum because of his over-eagerness and quick response to someone's question toward someone else without even letting them finish, however it can constitute as a scum-tell should the rest of his posting(s) feel non-town motivated. However what makes me more comfortable to vote him right now, would be the post I quoted above. It's a blatant AtF (Appeal-To-Fear) which means he's appealing to the fear of a consequence which occurred during a previous game experience, which is not a fair push because it's manipulation. Two games, two completely different roles, and more statistically improbable than not that they would both be in the same exact position saying the same exact things. So to use such as a defense is usually more considered scummy (in other words, scum are more likely to use it) because it's not an adequate defense, but rather trying to manipulate an emotion to make them "afraid" to vote you.

With that said, while I can't say that all of Formerfish's postings have been scum-motivated, as of right now, this is where I find most comfortable for my vote to be placed.

VOTE: FormerFish

And in his Fourth Post, #57: He says pretty much exactly what Huntress just said about us having plenty of time. He's trying to make himself look more useful than he's actually being by filling it up with nonsense and stuff people have already said. And while I could SOMEWHAT comprehend his vote on FormerFish from a town perspective, I feel it comes from a scum just trying to take advantage of a tiny, I'm not quite sure if this is the right word, but "mistake." Go ahead and isolate all his posts, it's kind of ridiculous how little he's actually said. He's RADIATING scum to me right now, so I'm very happy with voting him. :)

[Alina]

UNVOTE: neil1113

I do NOT want someone accidentally quick hammering but he's still my top suspect

[Alina]

Okay now that I got that out of the way ( I was really scared someone might pop up and vote him )

Just treat this as a vote that I don't want to apply because I don't want this day ending early....it's an imaginary vote that's there but isn't.

FOS: neil1113

[Alina]

No, actually. You've expressed your suspicion of Neil a few times now so it's not out of the blue, and I currently have you as a townread.

[Alina]

Actually I had a couple questions I wanted to ask people that totally slipped my mind because I forgot about them once I started piecing things together about

Neil

. Okay

@

Andrewseagull

, you said your suspicion of

Formerfish

isn't enough to vote, but you aren't voting anyone else. Don't you think it's kind of useless to be voting...well, no one? I'll ask the same of

Blueheaven

. Why not vote someone?

@

Huntress

/

Formerfish

Huntress

was scum in that game you guys brought up earlier, right?

[Alina]

Actually, Neil, you're quite wrong, sorry to say. I was under the impression you were more townie than scum until I actually got around to ISOing everyone...that's when I 180ed. Also, the funny thing is, Formerfish already pointed this out, actually, but you "Appealed to Fear," right in that very post.

I say all of this, so when I flip town, you guys have an understanding of why my lynch was a mislynch.

Pretty funny, actually. "AtF" is the reason you're voting Formerfish, right? So...now that's just as valid of a reason to vote you too, right?

[Alina]

No, actually. You've expressed your suspicion of Neil a few times now so it's not out of the blue, and I currently have you as a townread.

How about the act of putting neil at L-1, something you were trying to avoid?

I'm not quite sure what this question is asking? Are you asking if I'd be okay with you voting Neil, or if I find him putting Neil at L-1 scummy? If the former...I'd rather just FoS him. If the latter, not really? He's expressed his suspicion of neil before, so I don't find the vote itself that bad, if it just came out of absolute NOWHERE, yeah, I'd find that a bit fishy.

[Alina]

Yeah, that's probably the best way to describe it. I'm typically a very cautious and paranoid(This isn't really the right word, but...I couldn't think of anything else, lol) person, so I'm not the kind of person who wants to leave someone at L-1. At least not quite yet.

[Alina]

To be honest, I don't really understand what was suspicious? All I'm doing is being a little bit careful. It is a newbie game, after all. Not everyone's gonna act completely logically. My vote is still on him, just not in the technical sense.

[Alina]

@Huntress

Why did you leave that out in your post describing the game? It seemed like you were trying to make it seem like you were town in that game to me.

@Shaddowez

You know, that kind of seems like something I can't answer without coming out looking weird, but whatever. I wanted to actually show my vote meant something, I mean, I didn't even consider FoSing, but if I just ran around FoSing people instead of actually voting it wouldn't end up meaning all that much.

Also, if

Neil

is lynched and pops up town, I highly doubt if I were to end up not voting him, everyone would turn into goldfish and say "Alina had surely nothing to do with the Neil votes, she was backing him up all along!" Please, if he dies and flips town, I'll take the heat for that, sure, but I really don't think he is and his recent posts are only further dropping him IMO.

@Andrew

Can you attempt to give reasoning for your thoughts, as to having suspicion on

Formerfish

and lack of on

Neil

? It's not that hard to at least formulate reasoning, right? If you really have no reasoning you can point to...then maybe that's because you aren't looking for any? If you think I'm going to let you get by without posting anything of use, think again, okay? :)

[Alina]

The opposite. He's seeming more and more scummy to me.

[Alina]

@

Huntress

Oh, wow, I'm an idiot. I totally missed that. Sorry about that!

Regarding

Neil'

s other game I skimmed it but I'll read it in more detail later. If we didn't have so much time left, I'd be comfortable putting him on L-1 because I don't care if he's lynched at this point. I want him lynched. All I'm reading is "confbias confbias confbias atf atf atf," over and over. If he thinks this is a good way to put doubt in my head, it isn't. The fact all he's doing is defending himself instead of actually trying to help town at the same time (watch as he does this now that I've posted this...but up to this point he's done jack.) He's scum. Let's make sure he's dead by the end of today, okay?

By the way, should I make a reads list too? I'm starting to feel left out.

Also, I had a horrible dream where Babi and Clusk flipped scum, so I can't tell if that's something trying to tell me I'm doing things completely wrong or not.

[Alina]

@

Neil

Hey, since you're voting

Formerfish

, who's his scumbuddy? Apparently, we're supposed to be looking for scumbuddies before scumboy #1 is lynched...so who's

Formerfish'

s?

I'm starting to think

Neil

's just trying to postpone time as much as possible so he can roleclaim a PR at the last second so he can survive another day.

[Alina]

Both I and Formerfish caught his AtF nonsense, iirc.

[Alina]

blueheaven, I don't think Alina is comfortable with putting Neil on/at L-1?

Tbh, I am, now. He's done nothing but bury himself further and further and I want to see him dead. Not literally, of course, but game-wise. If we were 2 more days in I would've voted him before

blueheaven

, for sure. He hasn't helped his case at all and I honestly really can't see him acting the way he is from a town perspective.

I'm just gonna post my reads list because why not, I'm a bit tired so they might be a bit short/not really fully complete, but if you have questions just ask. If I get shot I want my reads to be known so they're considered as 100% valid thought processes:

Going from most Town to most Scummy.

TOWNIE ZONE:

1. Clusk92

He's seemed really genuine to me, and feels like he's honestly trying to find scum. I don't think I really need to elaborate on this too much, I haven't really gotten many scummy vibes from him unless you count dreams.

2. Babisoup

I can understand why people could think he's scummy, for sure, and I did for a while until I did my reread, where I turned around and he became a pretty solid townread, and he's kept up thought processes that I agree with and understand, so, not many objections from me. I do think his first posts were kind of strange, but I think they were probably just reaction tests? If they weren't, then yeah...they were kind of weird, but that's the impression I was getting at first.

3. Blueheaven

His first couple posts, I remember being somewhat iffy on him, but he's been contributing probably the most out of everyone, considering he's been in the game less than some of us. That catch by Huntress was interesting, but I don't think it means much atm. For now I don't have bad reads on him. I know all these reads are pretty repetitive, but we're still in the townie zone, so...

4. Formerfish

I've got mostly town feelings from his posts the whole game, except when he asked me that one question where he dropped a bit in my rankings, but ultimately, everything else I've seen from him I either agree with or understand. I feel like he's working on trying to find scum, and I honestly think Neil is scum as heck, and I highly doubt him and

Formerfish

are partners, so if

Neil

flips scum, he'll probably go up a bit. If they are partners...then I'm going to be sitting shocked.

NULL/UNSURE ZONE:

5. Huntress

To be honest, I have no idea whatsoever how to feel about her. I've gotten a few town vibes from her here and there, but I could also easily see her being scum. I don't really know how to elaborate, I just have small mixed feelings about her and she's easily the person I have the least of a feel on.

6. Shaddowez

Shaddowez is probably one of the more interesting people in the game to me. At first, he leaned scummy to me for a while, before switching back, but then someone(I can't recall who?) pointed out he really hadn't done any scumhunting at that point in the game(I don't really think he had done all that much besides defend himself, but I could be wrong) but immediately after that was pointed out he stepped up and started asking questions actively. I could see him being scum who realized he probably needed to be a bit more offensive rather than defensive, but I don't feel TOO strongly yet. I can still see him being town, which is more than I can say about the two below...

SCUMMY ZONE:

7. Andrewseagull

There's an

Andrewseagull

in this game? Could've fooled me. Seriously, I don't mean to come across mean here, but the guy's done less than Neil. He popped in for a little while when he replaced in, then completely disappeared before voting for

Formerfish

for "gut reasons." Please. At that point in the game, you should have SOME kind of concrete reads, right? I mean, I honestly thought it would be hard to get reads so early in a game, when I read games on the site before, but when I actually started playing and working on analyzing people, I learnt it honestly wasn't that hard? Maybe that's just me, but the guy hasn't shared any of his thoughts, done anything for us, and honestly seems like he's just trying to hide without saying anything at all. The only thing he's done is defend

Neil

, and if

Neil

flips scum(I'm 99% sure he will) I'm going to be taking a close look at him, and I suggest you all do too.

8. Neil

Self-explanatory, I think everyone knows my reasoning behind this. Lynch, burn, destroy, yadayadayada.

[Alina]

what

the

@!$(&$@!(&!$@($!@&

omg

Well, my mind is currently completely imploding. :/ Thank god I posted my reads when I could. IF I die tonight, I want you guys to know (until this incredibly strange occurence) I had a good time playing with you all and had fun, and good luck!

[Alina]

Even if Neil flips scum don't forget to look at Andrewseagull. He may have thought of voting his partner to gain credit after pretty much evryone was suspicious of him but didn't know his vote would hammer him idk i'm typing fast so i get it in before baezu locks just even if neil flips scum make sure you keep an eye on him anyways

[Alina]

In previous games I've read, I'm pretty sure they only had night chat pre-game after confirming before enough confirmed to start the game and every night...Unless they have daychat now in matrix6 I don't think so? I personally think it would be really OP if they DID have day chat.

[Alina]

I don't either. He's probably scum one way or the other, it seems a bit absurd to me; it'll be nice if he hammered his partner for us though. If Neil is town I'm probably going to be hitting myself for a couple days though.

[Alina]

True. It's just that I've spent the last couple days pretty sure I caught scum and being all confident in that and if it turned out I was horribly wrong, then, well...that would be quite the blow to my ego, lol.

And, yeah, probably the latter. Neil honestly...I couldn't see anything all that town from him at all. I think that's moreso his fault than mine considering 6/8 people at least were willing to vote him.

[Alina]

Yeah, this is why I unvoted in the first place, I had a feeling something like this might happen and it did. Blech. Oh well I guess. :/

I'm pretty sure he's scum but the doubts are gonna keep building until I see "Mafia Goon/Roleblocker," pop up as his role. Then I'll cheer.

[Alina]

Okay then.

I was waiting to see who died/if I died before I reread the thread, but I guess that was just useless waiting.

Anyways, I really don't understand

Neil

's town play at all. :/ Did he just not have time to play? I literally sat there baffled for like 10 minutes. Maybe a PR I could understand doing that but wow. I'm completely confused atm.

I also have no idea if

Andrew

is just completely clueless or if he's scum playing up the clueless angle so he can get through the game doing stupid stuff without anyone suspecting him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, I guess, because I honestly have no idea who I even want to vote at this point. Hoping the reread will help with that.

[Alina]

@

Andrewseagull

Who is your top town and scum read right now? Give (detailed please) reasoning.

[Alina]

It doesn't, all TOO much. If he was a new player, POTENTIALLY, he could act like a complete dork so the scum wouldn't kill him and he could get by, but as an IC I don't really see it. I was just trying to make the point that I really couldn't comprehend him being a VT at all.

[Alina]

Yeah, if I HAD to choose someone to lynch right now, immediately, I'd pick him, but I haven't reread the thread yet(I'm way too tired right now, I'm going to do it after I get some sleep so I can actually be perceptive...but I can't get to sleep right now so it's ugh.)

[Alina]

You had the time to sign on to avoid being prodded, but not enough time to answer a few questions? >_>

[Alina]

@

Huntress

Everything. Almost every single thing he accused others(

Formerfish

, really...I don't recall him saying anything about anyone else) of, he then ended up doing himself(Namely the whole AtF thing). And in addition, he described his scum game in post one. Then proceeded to emulate that. It confuses me how he could act like that, considering he has (I'm assuming, anyways,) quite a few games under his belt. I know that amount of games played =/= skill, but still. :/ If you understand why he was doing what he was doing, please, explain it to me, because I don't get it.

[Alina]

I feel horribly stood up by

Andrew

and

Formerfish.

I'm in the middle of rereading right now(reread 3 people so far) and I already have a couple thoughts I'd like to voice but I want to wait for certain people to post first.

[Alina]

Did you ever do a pbpa on everyone? I'd be interested to see your thoughts, actually.

[Alina]

Yeah, it's pretty much a ghost town at this point...which is depressing. Once I'm done with my reread and a certain few people post, I'll give out my reads list and some thoughts, but I would really like other people to do that too. My reads feel incredibly iffy because as soon as I feel like I catch something, a later post explains it and then I'm confused again. The scum are probably in love with how quiet it is right now though so I hope, you know...this gets turned around. I've caught Formerfish lurking in the online users thing like 5 times since the day has opened and he's barely posted anything, which is more depressing than Andrew not posting because I haven't even seen him.

[Alina]

@

Huntress

The fact that he kept going "Oh, you'll see when I flip town, you'll see when I flip town." Over and over is kind of ridiculous. I don't consider defending yourself without doing anything else much of a town tell. Do you? He wasn't doing anything besides accusing

Formerfish

based on one thing, he ignored requests to give his reads, etc. Also, the whole "lol you shouldn't lynch me because you haven't figured out my partner yet." Is kind of an absurd notion, don't you think? He hadn't even given thoughts on who he thought

Fishes

partner was, either, he was being a complete hypocrite.

@

Baezu

Can we get a prod on the invisible man, aka

Andrew

?

Done. He has 24 hours to respond before being replaced

[Alina]

omg I was right about something? I THOUGHT you were a PR but I wasn't sure. Okay I just finished my reread so I'm going to give out my new reads list. Yay. I was a little iffy on

Babi

but then he made that post. So now I'm super happy.

BUT, there is one possibility you didn't include...

During the Night, you may place one player in Jail by sending me the name of your target via PM. They will be protected from kills and prevented from using their own ability, if they have one. You cannot target yourself.

Meaning, the scum could've targetted

Blueheaven

for a night kill last night(which is plausible.) So that's a fifth possibility. I'll give my reads list shortly but I wanted to post this real quick.

[Alina]

Oh, wait, nvm, you did include that. I missed it. I'm an idiot. Sorry.

[Alina]

Okay. Reads list time. Going who I think is most town to most scum at this point.

1. Babisoup

He was #1 before he claimed and he kind of just sealed it for me, for the most part I've felt he's been working to catch scum and he's had a couple good posts that I like that shows he's paying attention to the game. I don't think I need to elaborate too much on this now that he's claimed

2. Clusk92

At first, I thought

Clusk

was really town, but now that I look at it he's not as amazing as I thought he was at first? It's pretty much a lot of common sense and then some mild scumhunting mixed in, but I still get a general town feel from him. There are two things I'd like to note, which are his posts #37 and #85. His #37 is where he checked if

Luc

had logged in since they signed up, which they hadn't. I don't really see scum pointing this out unless

luc

was his partner(

Andrew

replaced

luc

btw.) Then, later, in his post 85, where he posts a reads list...he forgets

Andrew

. Why? Maybe because he gave fake-reads on everyone but his partner, then realized "oopsie." But really, I think he's town unless he's buddies with

Andrew

.

3. Formerfish

For the most part, I get a town vibe from

Fish

, but every once in a while, Like

Shaddowez

said earlier, there's some stuff that feels kind of strange and I get a weird vibe from(mainly that does scum have a night chat post) but it's just constant WIFOM with that so it's iffy.

4. Huntress

I'm getting mostly town vibes from her at this point, for the most part all of her posts have a purpose, and she seems to pay attention to stuff other people don't, but at the same time I could see her just being scum planting subtle seeds. Sorry to sound like

Andrew

here, but something just feels kind of weird.

5. Shaddowez

Shaddowez

...I pretty much stated everything I wanted to about him in my last reads list. He was defensive at first, then he didn't start scumhunting until someone pointed out that he wasn't, then when I made the case on

Neil

he was like "yeah i was thinking about this earlier so yeah I'm voting him too bye." He did bring up some other points about it though, so this isn't much. Just something I noted that I wanted to kinda point out. There is one post, I think #63, where he said that scum should move with the town, if the town are talking, talk, if not, don't talk. Kind of feels like something a more experience scum(One of the SEs?) Could've told him to do in a night chat pre-game..anyways, he has a couple scummy things he's done but it's not enough for me to go "LOL KILL IT."

6. Blueheaven

I had a couple suspicions on the reread(mainly him being mad about

Babi

putting

Neil

on L-1, then doing it later) but then when I read his further posts he showed he just didn't know Intent to hammer was a thing, so...that explained it. He had the thing

Huntress

pointed out, which was him being comfortable putting

Neil

on L-1, but not comfortable lynching him??? Roleclaim fishing?? Very possible. I actually might want to put him at #6 now because as I write this it feels more wrong to me than it did at first. Also, he apparently forgot about his suspicions of one of

Neil

or

Formerfish

having to be scum overnight and just flopped onto

Andrew

, who he said his stuff is reasonable but still suspects him, so...I don't know, he just confuses me. He contradicts himself a lot. With

Babi

's claim, I could see him being scum, but I'm not entirely sure if I want to commit to that idea 100% yet. I could also see the scum targeting him last night.

7. Andrew

Do I really need to explain? He posted after the quickhammer to defend himself, but every other time he's been completely invisible. He's had a couple moments that made me think he might be smarter than he lets on, and just did the whole quickhammer thing because he knew he had the "i'm a newb wat am i doing," defense. But at the same time I could see him being town. Which sucks. See below.

TLDR:

My reads are crap and I have mixed reads on everyone.

ALSO:

I have a plan for the night if we end up lynching scum today since we have a claimed Jailkeeper...but it wouldn't really be effective if there's two scum at night. Basically, we plan ahead before we go through with the lynch, IN THE CASE that the person we're lynching flips scum, we set a target for

Babi

to jail. That way, there's only one scum, and if he jails that person, and someone(probably

Babi

since I don't think there can be a doctor w/a Jailkeeper) dies, that we way have a confirmed townie because the person jailed wouldn't be able to shoot. But if the person we're lynching flips town, of course just jail whoever you want...Anyone have any thoughts on this?

There IS the possibility of the scum no killing, but, if they did that we could just put it into an endless loop that never stops by no lynching, meaning they'd just be forfeiting the game.

[Alina]

That's the point. If the scum shoots someone, then the person being jailed is guaranteed town and is conftown, because they couldn't have done the shooting. That way, even if the scum shoots Babi, we know who he jailed, and that person couldn't have killed him/someone else.

[Alina]

@

Huntress

I'm not saying his play was THAT bad, I just like using colorful words sometimes. I think I just expected more since he was an IC.

I also totally forgot the roleblocker was a thing...pretty much could make the plan pointless if it's in the setup and we end up lynching the goon rather than the roleblocker today. Welp :/

[Alina]

@

Andrew

Why did you stop thinking

Formerfish

was scum?

[Alina]

@

Baezu

Sorry for asking yet again lol, but can you prod

blueheaven

please?

Done.

[Alina]

Those are actually really good catches. At this point, I'm okay with lynching either

Blueheaven

or

Shaddowez.

I might have to call myself an idiot when this is all said and done, but I think

Andrew

is probably town. There's a small part of me that thinks he's just playing all of this up...but right now I feel comfortable having him as town.

When it comes to

Blueheaven

and

Shaddowez

, I personally think

Shaddowez

has a higher chance of flipping scum, but

Blueheaven's

flip would clear up my reads big time. Honestly, I think I'd rather lynch

Shaddowez

, but I'd be okay with

Blueheaven.

[Alina]

Apparently. Weird. I guess using that

Shaddowez

post(like I thought it was suspicious) probably doesn't mean as much as I thought it did when I read it. I still think he's probably scum though, for all the other stuff he's done.

[Alina]

The "when I flip town," game huh? Now you sound like

Neil

. :p

With

blueheaven

, mainly by interactions with other people will it help me get a stronger read on people. For example, I doubt him and

Andrew

are scumpartners. I thought it was a possibility for a while, but I don't really think so anymore. Also, I doubt if he flips scum, that

Huntress

is scum. With you, I don't have many reads when it comes to your interactions with others, so my reads on other people wouldn't improve/change much as a result of your flip. I'm not so sure you're PARTNERS, I'm just most comfortable lynching one of you today instead of anyone else.

Let's say you flip town today, I'll probably have to end up rereading everyone AGAIN, but really, I'd probably look at

Huntress

and

blueheaven

next.

Huntress

just rubs me the wrong way for some reason and I can't figure out WHY, since coming from a logical perspective, her posts seem useful. I'm pretty certain

Clusk

is town unless he's scum with

Andrew

, and I'm 99% sure

Babi

is town as well.

Fish

I could see possibly being scum with you. Partially due to that line I pointed out in my read on you that kind of sounded like someone gave you that advice(someone more experienced, meaning, an SE) in your pre-game nightchat. (I'm pretty sure there's one, anyways. There was in the other games I read...not sure if it changed with matrix6?)

[Alina]

How do you play scum?

Btw,

Shaddowez

, you didn't answer this from

Babisoup

.

[Alina]

I am really, really bad at this game. Every time I suspect someone they do something that makes me doubt it again. Maybe I just need to be more confident in my reads when I get them? I don't know.

Anyways. I'd like to actually hear your thoughts on

Huntress

and

Clusk

. I just kind of skim re-read them and I think I was giving

Clusk

too much credit in some areas.

Huntress

is the same. Logical, but just feels off. :/

[Alina]

Okay. I thought it over today and I think that because I was SO sure

Neil

was gonna flip scum, that when he didn't, it really damaged my confidence in my reads and so I became kind of okay with just kind of swapping them all over the place because I wasn't confident enough and I was afraid of being wrong again.

When I was thinking I didn't really think

blueheaven

was THAT scummy, and I would've buyed him being a night target, but if he really checked the thread and didn't even defend himself, coupled with his disappearing act when he was very active before...yeah, it doesn't really bode very well for him. But I still think my vote is most comfortable being on

Shaddowez

.

VOTE: Shaddowez

[Alina]

I'll probably cry in a corner somewhere. Not really, but...

I do think it's interesting

Huntress

never even once mentioned you until her post #214(her 16th post.) Now she seems to be onboard with you being

blueheaven's

scumbuddy, and is okay with lynching you too. Also, yesterday, she noted that "it's looking like

Andrew

and

Blueheaven

are the scum." Now, though,

Andrew

isn't scum and is just low hanging fruit. Switched up overnight.

The problem is I also like a couple of her posts and her case on

blueheaven

also makes sense to me.

[Alina]

Yeah. After actually trying to commit to what I'm thinking instead of letting myself get carried away by every 5 words, I'm thinking

Huntress

is probably town. I don't see all too much scum motivation from her with the exception of a couple things here and there that probably don't mean anything.

I could see

Clusk

being scum -- he posted a lot to begin with, then afterwards started going UTR. This kind of left an impression in my mind that he was more active and contributing more than he really was, when in reality he's just been...there. Piping in every once and a while with pretty much just common sense.

Well, I just kind of sped-ISO'd him and there are a couple things I find weird but also some things I like. I'm not sure yet. I'm probably gonna do it again and pay some more attention, but I wanna read you again real quick. It does seem like in day one he was pretty intent on getting suspicion on you and

Babi

. I didn't think

Babi's

early sarcasm was that hard to notice, but he seemed like he was jumping on it, hoping to gain some traction on him maybe? I don't know yet. I think I'm leaning town with him.

Earlier on, you said you thought

Andrew

was your top scumread. Then

Babi

came out with his JK claim and you switched over to

Huntress

/

Clusk

. What did Andrew do that improved you?

[Alina]

At this point I'm starting to think

Andrew

is magical and changed the game setup so he could be a jester.

@

Clusk

Nah, it's fine. I'm pretty sure you're town at this point. I agree w/you, I think scum is 2 of

Shaddowez

,

hayato

(I miss blueheaven now. ) and

andrew

.

If blueheaven had stayed on and defended himself, I probably would've believed him...and now we have new guy here. Can we just lynch all three of them today?

@

Hayato

You've had hours since you read the quickhammer, have you finished reading the thread yet?

[Alina]

Yeah, at that point I was just trying to see if I was suspicious of you deep down or not, and at this point, I'm pretty sure you,

Clusk

and

Babi

are town, and I'm faiiiiirly sure

Formerfish

is town. I'm starting to want to lynch

Hayato

more than

Shaddowez

now.

[Alina]

I've been thinking, and I'm cool with lynching

Hayato

today...as far as I can see, the scum is 2 of him,

Shaddowez

and

Andrew

, with a small small outside shot of

Formerfish

, but he's far, far behind the rest of those three. But, I don't want to vote

Hayato

juuust yet.

First, I want

Babi

to say who he'll jail in the case the person we lynch flips scum, then I'll be comfortable putting

Hayato

at L-1...I don't want

Andrew

coming along before

Babi

can say anything.

[Alina]

@

Formerfish

Hurtful.

@

Shaddowez

If the scum no kill, that just gives us an extra lynch, so if they do do that that actually helps us out, lol.

[Alina]

Well, if

Hayato

flips roleblocker, it's as good as a cop clear if someone dies. Otherwise, they can keep no killing til the end of the game and let us keep lynching until we catch them. It's a fair bit complicated, but I think it gives us a good advantage provided

Hayato

flips right. If he flips town by pulling the same witchery

Neil

did...well, then

Babi

can jail whoever and hopefully there isn't a roleblocker and he gets it right.

[Alina]

The wording is kind of weird in it, yeah. What was the derp btw? I feel stupid for missing it.

[Alina]

Okay, cool.

VOTE: Hayato

If anyone's gonna hammer, at least make sure everyone on the wagon is still cool with it. Claims at this current point with the knowledge we have are pretty useless, btw.

[Alina]

It means nothing and is as good as a VT claim. The scum know whether or not a bulletproof is in the game, if they have 2 goons, there is no bulletproof and no other power role, meaning, either of them could claim bulletproof and then we could believe them, and let them ride to the end. I wouldn't take a claim like that with certainty at all.

[Alina]

The only way a bulletproof claim should be believed is if we lynch a roleblocker first and there is no CC.

[Alina]

Why's that, exactly? I don't get the logic. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

UNVOTE: Hayato

But fine w/e I'm probably revoting you afterwards.

[Alina]

I kind of want to do it too, but I'd say wait for him to give some reads, and then do it. At least, that way, we have a little bit more "info." But, if you're really determined to just go ahead with it, go ahead. I'm pretty certain that slot is scum at that point. I'd hammer, but like I said, I'd like to hear at least some thoughts.

[Alina]

In the unlikely event that cluster(#%@&%(#!& slot flips town, I might want

Andrew

dead instead of

Shaddowez

. I don't know yet. I'm certain

Babi

is town, fairly sure

Fish

/

Huntress

are town, which leaves

Clusk

/

Andrew

/

Shaddowez

if

Boon

is town. Maybe my crackpot

Cluskdrew

theory is a thing. I think I'm just overthinking stuff right now again.

Now mind you I don't think

Boon

is town, but I didn't think

Neil

was either, so...still determined to lynch it but in the case I get mindscrewed again idk.

[Alina]

The first guy to die on Lost.

[Alina]

I don't think he's even reading the thread. Just the very last post on it.

[Alina]

Um...okay. I'm really confused at this whole situation now. Why would you just start reading on page 6? o.O

@

Huntress

I was actually thinking the other day that if someone WAS going to accuse me as scum, saying I was partners with him would be the easiest way to do it. I'm actually a bit surprised no one has, tbh. I was pretty defensive/etc of him for a while.

Also, just as a note, in case day goes into the next couple hours, I'm not gonna be on at all tomorrow since it's my birthday. I might pop in like...once, but I doubt it, so, just felt you should all know that.

[Alina]

Okay, cool. That works out.

[Alina]

I doubt that

Blueheaven

left because of something urgent. IIRC,

Formerfish

claimed he saw him checking the site AFTER

Babi

had claimed his JK, but,

Blueheaven

didn't say anything and then pulled his disappearing act. If he was town, I think it would be relatively easy for him to make a case for him being night targetted, and I would have believed him, most likely, BUT, the thing is, he decided to just pull a houdini, which makes me really paranoid of that slot. Combined with

hayato

just leaving out of the blue as well, while I'm getting good vibes from

Boon

(I honestly can't figure out why, so don't ask) I'm really paranoid about keeping that slot alive.

Also, while I suspect the

Cluskdrew

thing could be a reality, I think he could've just decided to come up with it to try and convince me to go with him instead of against him. Also, I think he's making a mountain out of a molehill with the "reasons?" post of

Clusks

. I think, regardless, anyone would want to know someone's reasons for a vote should they not give them, right?

I'll see if I can be on later tonight and hopefully I'll be clearer on what exactly I want to do, since we're kinda starting to get short on time.

[Alina]

Okay. That sucks, but whatever. Did anyone else play the ISO

blueheaven

game? It's pretty fun.

1. ISO

Blueheaven

2. Ctrl+F:

Clusk

3. No Results

He never said his name once. ONCE. Mixed with

Clusk

defending

Jopalopa

at the start from

Babi's

vote, and then defending

blueheaven

before finally realizing

boon

is screwed, he flips on him. I'm definitely leaning him right now, because while

Shaddowez

seems more scummy to me INDEPENDENTLY, I don't honestly see him as a partner with our dead...4 person monstrosity. Serious DID going on there.

Shaddowez

'd be my second choice though.

There's also

Andrew

, who...has had a couple weird posts, and has been completely strange the whole game, but I honestly think he's town?

bh

seemed like he was testing the waters to get suspicion on him on the start of day 2, seeing if anyone would vote him, and

Clusk

seemed to be firmly on that train as well. I think

Clusk

is the most likely to be his scumpartner. I think

Fish

/

Huntress

are almost certainly town. If they're scum then I'm an idiot.

VOTE: Clusk92

So, yeah, I feel comfortable going with this for now, but I want to know what other people are thinking too and if there's anything possibly significant that I missed.

[Alina]

That ninja thing only worked for me twice. The heck? I didn't get shown your post before I made mine :/

[Alina]

I'm not a robot. My opinions have been all over the place the whole game, lol. You and

Fish

swapped places in my scum possibility-most likely town zones towards the end of yesterday. Besides, with

boon

(I keep typing out

blueheaven

...)'s flip, there's a lot more information.

[Alina]

I can't decide if

Andrew

is just playing the newbie card or if he's some guy who just decided to make an alt on here and act as oblivious as possible to get laughs. Some posts he seems like he's trying way too hard to look town "lol why did the mafia no kill :) " but at the same time

blueheaven

seemed like he was testing the waters to try and get him killed so I'm not so sure they were partners. He didn't vote him though, so I guess he could've been setting up to go with or against him depending on what other people thought.

[Alina]

That's actually a good point, I hadn't thought of that. I was really hoping we'd have a no kill last night so I could just get all 3 of my suspects lynched and hopefully I wasn't dead wrong with

Huntress

/

Fish

but :/ I guess I can hope they end up hitting a bulletproof at night if we have one.

[Alina]

Andrew..this is a really elaborate trolling schtick of yours, right? ...Right?

[Alina]

oh god

I wish you waited just a litttle bit more but whatever. I'm still okay with this. Moment of truth time I guess. Here's hoping.

[Alina]

Huntress hasn't been on though lol

[Alina]

OMG WE WON? YES! Don't sell yourself short, Clusk, you played a great game and I had you as town for a long while, it was only towards the end that I started suspecting you, and then it was mostly blueheaven's lack of ties to you and your ties with him that made me suspect you. You both played well! GG everyone and great job hosting, Baezu!

[Alina]

If Babi hadn't come out with the JK or if he had died, I probably would have kept townreading you guys for a while, so it's probably best you guys were going to let me live. And yeah, boon deciding to come at you made me think he was trying to take suspicion off you via bussing you, lol. You still played well though and I hope we can play on the same team sometime! :3

[Alina]

Wow, you had me really confused. So you WERE secretly a mastermind. Not an evil one, mind you. I was actually considering playing somewhat like you did here if I rolled scum for my first game. A part of me kind of wishes I had, because it would've probably been hilarious to try. Well done with the acting! I hope I can get to play with you showing your true colors!

[Alina]

@Huntress

I was thinking that we didn't have a bulletproof and we only had all VTs and 2 goons, oh well. I didn't suspect it at all, good job!