Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oi, to head off questions of this nature: I respond to nearly any variation of my name from the full thing to DDD, Danny to DDDP to "Hey, you" as long as I know that I'm the "Hey, you" you're referring to. As the IC, I'm here to answer questions and provide some order to the game while also playing the game. If you have some question not related directly to your role (those questions should be sent to DV) feel free to ask them. It is much better to ask a question than to blunder and hurt the town accidentally.

Other than that, you get out of this game what you put in. So if you want to have fun, come in with a positive attitude, don't take any debate, arguments, or accusations personally and just pretend it's Pat Benetar and give it your best shot. I think experience is the best teacher and so unless otherwise prompted I'll be playing the game the same as the rest of you.

~~

VOTE: Bitmap, I know this person.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Can we just assume I said everything Bitmap did? Read a post, start typing a response, see Bitmap made the response I was going to. See the next post, start typing a response, Bitmap did it. It's very rude.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Can we just assume I said everything Bitmap did? Read a post, start typing a response, see Bitmap made the response I was going to. See the next post, start typing a response, Bitmap did it. It's very rude.

I'm very sorry. I can't help it when I'm town. :/

Also, which posts were you planning on responding to?

#13, #23; let's just go with every post that ends in the number 3 for good measure.

@DDD:

Quick question that I would like to be answered, when you play forum mafia, do you read everything that has been posted and then make a post or read a post at a time and respond if need be per post?

I don't think I have a definitive style in that regard; like this post is being written after reading these two posts and the rest of page 2 but not page 3. Sometimes I'll read everything, sometimes I'll snap reply.

UNVOTE: Bitmap

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bitmap is slinging the proverbial pasta all over the place and trying to see what will stick. Classic first day scum play.

@Trip Ds, as resident IC, what's your view on this?

I can definitely see that as a scum play, but also as a town play. Throw shit against the wall and see who squeals the most is scum.

It's nonsense. I mean really nonsensical; scum are the ones who toss things around and try to get them to stick on day one? Scum have some information, namely who scum are, so they can usually target better than average while town have no such information and thus would be more likely to cast a wide net. That being said nothing Bitmap has done has felt like "slinging proverbial pasta all over the place" to me anyways.

Alright, I'm going to teach you guys about mafia because I'm going through one of those hyper-activity aggressive phases.

First off, go look at your role PM. Mine says I'm some form of town. (DO NOT QUOTE YOUR ROLE PM THOUGH)

Why the fuck do I need confirmation from other players if I'm town or not? I know I'm town. I don't have to appease anyone. I'm going to shit on people if they need to know if they're town because they're trying to suck up to the town in order to not get lynched. I'm going to post reads on what I think of people because why would I hide what I think about people? I'm town. I don't need to cherry pick my words. Scum has to cherry pick their words. This is why hyper-active people are usually town.

LAMIST much? The last line is an outright lie. Activity has no correlation with alignment.

Activity has a relatively high correlation with alignment; there are of course exceptions and outliers but it's not something to be ignored.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Penn Jillette out your reads

Activity has a relatively high correlation with alignment; there are of course exceptions and outliers but it's not something to be ignored.

Is the correlation the same for Newb games as Non-Newb?
Are you the exception, the outlier, or ...

I'm sure that they aren't identical if you actually did a full analysis but I believe the trend holds for both.
I'm the "we haven't been playing the game long enough to brand anyone a lurker, undercontributor, or etc."

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bad IC is Bad.

Scum are looking for PRs on day one

(motive to get responses), and if scum always did the same thing then town would win every game. You can't rule anything out as scum behavior.

I like the part in bold where you tell me what scum do and then tell me scum never always do the same thing. Contradiction thy name is Drixx. But more importantly, how about we just make the correction assumption that not everything should be taken literally; when I call someone town or scum it's not because I know they are it's because I think they are and when I say something scummy it's not that I think scum always do it but that I think scum are more likely to do it or I think it's not scummy because I think scum are less likely to do it.

I updated from correlation to causation. Alignment doesn't have a causal relationship to activity.

Well obviously, the literal only thing that has a causal relationship with being scum is receiving a scum PM. That being said there is a correlation between activity and alignment.

It's amusing to see you basically saying that active players should be considered town when I just got done a game where I replaced into a scum slot that had been scum read by the most experienced players and used activity to get a flawless scum win. Like I said ... you can't make any statements about what scum will or won't do. The more you teach new players to expect some certain thing, the more they're gonna get suckered by good scum players.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Furthermore, you're acting like I've said we should lynch people in exact order from least posts to most posts. I haven't. But when in doubt between two players or stuck for a direction, I find lynching those who are posting less than they should or posting without actually saying anything is a good fallback.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Penn Jillette out your reads

Don't pull that face at my young man. Reads. Out them. Now.

VOTE: fjkldsjh

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What scum will actually do as far as the plays they make and what they will say or how active they will be? I don't think that's really something you can safely assume in any single game. It may be true that in the big picture game of all the thousands of games that have been played on this site, there is a correlation between alignment and activity. I haven't done that sort of analysis so I couldn't say for sure. But even if there is, applying large scale probabilities and correlations to a game as if they are universally true is a dangerous path to tread. I believe this is essentially what you were saying about my anecdote, but in reverse. One case doesn't invalidate a correlation or a probability, but it does illustrate why counting on those things might not be super wise.

A similar point could be made about VCA, but VCA is a bit of theory for after the first lynch, yes?

Aren't you just arguing against the existence of scumtells here? In a single game, sure, activity might not be a reliable indicator, maybe somebody saying "to be honest" is town (if we believe that to be reliable on a larger scale), maybe the Amished tell isn't reliable (and no I'm not telling you what that one is) but that doesn't mean you don't apply them, it means you don't blindly apply them without thought.

And I think VCA is rubbish.

~~

Reading Diego.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Read Diego.

#23 and #51 aren’t thrilling. I don’t have a problem with #17 and #31 is good. #62 is boring but I honestly like his sass in #66 even if it’s misplaced. Yeah, I’m not seeing why I needed to read Diego. And I've read your inane question argument and I find it doesn't hold water, I've asked some weird nonsense over the years to try and get in someone's head (both trying to understand them and throw them off to get a more accurate read).

In fact, let's ask you an inane question... Do you have the same alignment as ika?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I would be interested to know why you think VCA is rubbish, but that can be after the game if you don't feel it's useful to the game at hand to discuss it.

I'm not DDD but good scum can manipulate VCA.

I don't think you even need to be good scum to manipulate VCA; just don't care about VCA as scum and it generally won't be accurate. As far as I can tell there's two types of VCA: 1) relational which usually comes down to "I think there's only one scum on this wagon" or "both scum are on this wagon" which I've never seen a good explanation for and is basically thwarted by the fact that scum don't have daytalk and thus there's no elaborate scheme of "make sure we're not on the same wagon" because things like that are too complicated to arbitrarily force. 2) positional and this just usually boils down to old scumtells like scum are most often third on the wagon and I've simply never seen any sort of credible analysis for such things; I might be convinced that scum are slightly less likely than town to start a wagon but even then there's a difference between starting a wagon and being the first vote on it in some cases. All in all I've never seen it been demonstrated to have repeatable success of any sort.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well what sort of nonsense?

Well I'm not just going to give them away; what if I need to use them this game?

As for ika, I read him. He seems more likely to be town than scum at this point, so I would say yes.

And that is a far more definitive answer than I expect.

I explained above. I don't see why a scum would out arbitrary TR's and SR's, as it makes the job harder for the player in the long run. When I applied logic, I realised you were most likely town, so I just backed off.

Scum have to pretend to have town and scum reads because if they didn't we'd just sit back and lynch the guys without scum and town reads; having reads is not a towntell. That being said Bitmap is reading town to me just not for "having reads".

You mean scum hunting as opposed to posting wall posts on how your theory is so vastly different than this site's generally accepted theory? No, I think I'll stick to scum hunting

This right here is a knockout punch; beautiful.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm a little confused by the atmosphere of this particular game. It's in the newbie queue, and I understood the point of this queue is to let folks come and learn. I've played essentially all of my forum mafia with a small playgroup on a website and forums meant for something else, where mafia was just a side thing. If I don't clear out the stuff that only applies to that playgroup or that became "accepted theory" in that much smaller group of players and set of games, and if I don't ask questions, how am I meant to learn and adapt to the theory and players here?

I do know that the SE/IC slots are supposed to be in the game to help those of us newer to the game, and yet an SE came after me personally and flung a homophobic slur at me and another player in the process, then later said they were going to enjoy the IC "ripping me a new asshole", and now the IC is enjoying a "knockout punch".

Sure, this is a newbie game where teaching among the goals. It's also a

game

so it's both intended to be fun and is more the place for "learn by doing" than scholarly longform discussion. If that's your interest then might I recommend the wiki or the mafia discussion down below because while things will get discussed in game the more pressing matter is finding scum.

Bitmap's comments were largely inappropriate but...
A) SE's are not a teaching role it's just a designation for a non-newbie player
B) was cited by the mod for his behavior
C) unfortunately, it's going to happen if you keep playing here (it's a game of arguments, sometimes those arguments turn heated and personal, sometimes people are just dicks) so it's best to learn to get over it.

As for my comment, I'm not going to apologize for it. Would you really feel that much better if I said, "Diego, that was a trenchant and appropriate criticism of Drixx's play"; it's a colloquial expression.

So you're faced with a reality that isn't the one you envisioned:
A) You can adapt
B) You can replace out and find a new game that's possibly nicer (possible, I've seen more pleasant games, I've seen much worse) and possibly more to your platonic ideal (unlikely)
C) You can replace out and have the time of your life in the mafia discussion enjoying long form treatises about mafia

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm going to be V/LA through Monday, I'll try to post some but it'll all be from my phone so no quotes and such.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

There are two parts to the post above and both are wrong. The first is that I found the Diego read a waste of time. Because it was, there were no smoking guns and my previously formed opinion wasn't changed. Seems like a waste of time to me. The second is the Bitmap issue and that's some Drixx grade nonsense. Bitmap is town is shorthand for I think Bitmap is town, we shouldn't have to add qualifiers to everything we write. As for the lack of given reasons, why would I bother? No one was pressuring Bitmap so there's no need to extend myself in that regard. What a bunch of nothing, especially from ika's first post of any substance.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'll be back on an actual CPU tonight, was hoping I'd have more access over the weekend but was busy visiting my sister and couldn't steal the time away. Luckily it looks like there isn't that much new content so it should be an easy catch up.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

First an embarrassing confession, when I originally read Drixx's 176 it was on my phone and thus tiny and I missed that it was by Drixx and assumed it was ika actually providing reasons for his vote. Hence the Drixx related dig and the ika related comment in my response; which ironically is obviously super appropriate. We already had this discussion, Drixx and the hyper-literalism is absurd. I'm also curious why his hyper-literalism doesn't extend to something like Letters' 200 where "Bitmap, Drixx are both obvious town".

Next up we have ika with the hilariously hypocritical, "he hasn't done anything" when to that point I've outclassed him easily on content. Now hypocrisy isn't a scumtell but doing something scummy like undercontributing is; he's apparently pretending to be hard right now but note how he just slopped down a vote, then about five posts later he gives a single bad reason for the vote and as far as I can tell hasn't really pushed the vote. Where is the "use emotions to get reads" thing he claimed to be about because I' don't see that at all. Furthermore, I haven't been around to defend myself and he can't hustle even anyone else onto my wagon. He's not trying and is actually my top choice for scum, if I thought I could get him lynched in the time we have, I would.

Frankly, I agree with Letter's assesment of NumberQ's initial slide into the game.

And I'm curious what Bitmap thinks he's going to see from the Diego vote when he puts no effort into it and what good his vote is accomplishing now that he's let it set on Diego for so long.

I can see the Pramitz point about Diego but I don't think it's a strong one; we all have preferences and I don't think the game was in a make or break point where Diego exploring other options was an issue.

I disagree with Diego's anti-meta stance but that's not really here nor there in terms of reads; I think even when people know some of their tells they can't know them all or slip into old habits even when they try not to.

Is there anyone on the "letters" wagon who can sum up the case for me? I seriously don't see it and I'm pretty sure you are all driving a townie lynch wagon, and it's frustrating as hell to repeat myself over again that I've re-read the thread more than once trying to see why people think he's scum and I don't see it. If you're so sure, it shouldn't be hard to do a summation. Convince me he's scum, by explaining the case against him, and I'll do the hammer vote.

Perhaps everyone could do with a re-read. We're like 11 days into this and there's only 252 posts, including the opening mod posts. It's not exactly like it will be all that time consuming.

Why is it that you need to be convinced but frankly I don't see you trying to do much convincing?

~

Green PM: Debonair Danny D
Town: Bitmap, Drixx
Nothingburger: ZombieKitty, Pramitz, Diego1487
Read very contingent on Letters: NumberQ
Townier lately from his scummier start: Letters
Would like to lynch: Ika

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I guess I need to be convinced because I have done re-reads and what I've seen isn't something like "letters is scummy because of this post" for reasons more substantial than "gut". His L-1 post reads like townie anger/hurt at being about to be lynched and unable to sway anyone. His

flailing

looks very townie to me.

As for being super literal and pressing people ... I've gotten a lot of reactions and responses for pressing people on those things, which is more than I would have to do reads with otherwise given the pacing of this game.

Hmm, an accusation of flailing=scum is often a decent scumtell; I'm not sure how to interpret an accusation of flailing being a town tell. And I'm not sure the super literal thing has done a thing other than annoy me and if that's all you're looking to do there are ways to do that which don't make you look like such a goof.

Frankly, I agree with Letter's assesment of NumberQ's initial slide into the game.

What assessment?

Also, I'm feeling a lot less aggressive about Letters now. I agree with DDD's read that he's acting a lot townier than he was, and I have to say I'm starting to see him from Drixx's POV too.

UNVOTE:

Though that begs the question as to why DDD is still voting Letters.

DDD, you say Letters is looking townier, but you're still voting him. Does that mean you still think he's the scummiest at the moment, enough to justify keeping him at L-1? Despite having ika on your "Would like to lynch" list?

I'll hold my vote until he answers and I have some more time to look through stuff.

#208; Do I think he's the scummiest? No, I think that's ika. Do I think he's scummy enough to keep my vote on him, clearly, otherwise I wouldn't have my vote on him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Ok, it looks like there are four players that lynchable today: Letters, DDD, Pramitz, and me.

How does the one vote on you or me make us that much more lynchable than anyone else? I mean one vote is L-4 as compared to L-5 but the more important thing is that there have been votes on both of us for a while and no one has budged because people aren't interested. Given that, isn't including yourself really just a defense mechanism so you can't be accused of leaving yourself off the list?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I will say this about the no lynch, despite it being massively suboptimal it does allow me to place the vote I want to place instead of holding it somewhere just to try to get a lynch.

VOTE: ika

A) Of all the players who didn't get replaced or have an unfortunate 4/5 day vacation in California when the game was actually picking up steam he has the least posts (Or at least roughly tied with Letters/Brantz).
B) His first eight posts are completely worthless, the only thing we could pretend is worthwhile is his RVS questions but they come to actually nothing. Why ask such pointless questions, especially with no follow-up.
C) His first actual point in the game is a vote on me to which he doesn't supply reasons; he does supply a reason a few posts later after Drixx has already jumped in and supplied actual arguments (unsound ones but like actual arguments). ika doesn't both with the argument thing instead posting one line and referencing a single game of meta.
D) He claims to be abrasive because he finds it useful to get reads but if that's true why haven't we seen that at all? He seems to have no interest in interacting with me to verify his read he just sloughs down a vote and walks away with no real interest in verifying his read or pushing to see the lynch he want actually happens.
E) This post is so bad.
F) "plz tell me more about my uslessness when i could say the same to others" like this is somehow a defense of his play.

~~

This is where we want to be, friends.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

cool story bro nice OGMUS

now how about you tell me something better, like if im scum whos my scum buddy?
like who would you kill n1?
like about some actual reads instead of silly acusation?

1) Anyone who isn't me could be your scum partner because I'm literally the only person you've interacted with in any significant way. No other votes, no questions that were worthwhile, no pushing for a player to follow your read, nothing.
2) This struck me a dumb question and I couldn't pin down why it was for a few moments and then I realized that because I'm not scum I was missing one of the important pieces of the question, I don't have a scum partner and my N1 kill as scum would've depended heavily on who my scumpartner was.
3) Ooh, so edgy. Totes getting under my skin to get that good read, pfffft.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

im trying to find if hes jsut bad town or legit scum gunning a myslynch

Wait, this is about me?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Im also kind of turned off about the fact it's like day 1 all over again and no flips or kills for information.

So what, you're supposed to lynch on day one as well. Do you usually open day one complaining about not having any information?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If he actually is town (he soft claimed town win condition)

Why is this a thing that needs to be mentioned? Do you think there's anyone who wouldn't do that under pressure?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@zombiekitty

, who do you think is scum and why? You have to have some kind of reads by now even if you say you're bad at it.

Bingo, bango.

If he actually is town (he soft claimed town win condition)

Why is this a thing that needs to be mentioned? Do you think there's anyone who wouldn't do that under pressure?

For clarity in terms of what I'm saying. I'm not trying to defend ika in any way. I do want to see him play to his win condition, whatever that is. Right now his play is terribad no matter which alignment he actually is.

I don't disagree, but why does him soft-claiming town win condition mean anything? I've claimed it as well and I'm sure if you asked anyone here they'd either soft or hard claim it as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The only blatant claim you have made is regarding your alignment.

He's claimed VT (#314).

So first off, just because I didn't lay out the reasons I changed my vote doesn't mean there weren't any. Second, what happened to calm, civil drixx? I am not sure your freak out about me unvoting is even a little warranted. Third, I have talked about diego, in fact I even said that he was my second scum read when I gave my reads upon replacing in. So logically, when I decided ika shouldn't be on the block anymore, I switched.

Now, if I thought you might actually be interested in discussing it, instead of just yelling, I could be convinced to talk with you about why I don't think ika should be the lynch today. But for now, just calm the fuck down.

You do realize that Drixx isn't the only player in the game, yeah? And that some of the rest of us might be annoyed and curious when you decide to break momentum on a good wagon and don't do anything productive with it? People don't realize how much mafia is a game of momentum and when you halt the momentum in one place if you're not getting momentum going in another you are actively harming the town because it leads to the painful sort of lethargy we saw at the end of the day yesterday.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD - thanks for the post reference. So if he's a VT, how is it he can claim to know the "role" (which is different from just alignment, yes?) of 4 or 5 people? That seems like a last ditch desperation thing. Thoughts?

I don't see how his claimed role matters at all in the discussion; there's no role in a newbie game that would provide him that much information at this point in the game. And I know you're going to jump to "he's lying" and in a sense he is but that's not actually important; the important thing is why is he doing it?

Well the generic version is obvious, he's signaling. Now the real question is who or what he's signaling, the first possible signal is his continued attempt to seem town except I really don't see how him guessing at people's roles makes him seem town, the second possible signal is that he's signaling to everyone to look how clever he is having read several people that well and maybe that's what he's doing but if so it's just worthless masturbatory behavior, and the final possible signal I can come up with his he's sending signals to his scum partner, either representing who he thinks they should kill/block the next night if he's not around or signaling that he thinks he has useful information and his partner should try to protect him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What do you think of BRantz in #408? I wasn't in the least bit emotional or irritated or anything else when I made the post. I've re-read it a couple times to try and see how he arrived at "freaking out" and "yelling", and I don't see it. For the moment, I read it as either staged or an emotional response to pointed questions.

I don't see any of that; maybe it's overstatement on his part but I'm not see anything worth really thinking about.

Also i can easily disperse most of DDD theory talk right now, if i was going down it would be easier for me to just blaitently post it out in the open for my partner if i had one then to try to send all odd messages

Your wagon fell from L-1 to L-2, going "hey scumpartner do X" would get you lynched, while secretive talk just annoys everyone but allows you to communicate as you want.

@DDD: I do realize drixx isn't the only person in the game. At the time his post looked to me to be trying overly hard to throw a negative light on my change of vote, reading it again after I have slept it reads very differently. Also you cannot even possibly blame me for halting momentum on that wagon, ika had been at L-1 for like 5 days and nothing had happened. I am postulating that if he is scum (which I actually don't think he is) his buddy was already on the wagon. Also, he has not stated any roles (so no role guessing), just that he is pretty sure of what people's roles are, do you feel they are the same thing? Why?

And that's the sort of bullshit VCA nonsense I hate " I am postulating that if he is scum (which I actually don't think he is) his buddy was already on the wagon." What on earth suggests that to you?

Furthermore, I didn't say you weren't allowed to get off the ika wagon, I think it's a good wagon and you should get back on, but I understand everyone has their own agendas and reads but if you are going to get off the ika wagon in that way it's not enough to simply get off. You need to push in another direction because momentum is a very real thing, there was momentum towards an ika lynch, now there's not but you provided nothing to fill the void which means apathy seeps in and that's a massive scum tool.

He is null-leaning town to me and I think it is better that he stopped his "whoa is me everyone is lynching me for shitty reasons thing" and started to do something.

Who is reading Zombiekitty as townie and why?

It would be great if he did that; he had all of day one to do something productive and all he did was vote for me and sit on it. Day two started and he had a chance to reboot things and instead of making sure he started the day with a fresh push (like I did) he repeated the same old bullshit and did nothing productive and then when his wagon happened instead of defending himself in a reasonable fashion or ignoring it to find scum he just whined and cried. He's had multiple chances and done nothing with any of them, I think we're past the point where we rationalize that behavior.

And not me, tell me she doesn't just read as ika's partner who is incredibly flustered because of their plans falling apart.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I basically have no idea what ika is rambling about any more.

Are you talking about the whole complaining thing as me being flustered? Cos I complained about the same thing before the whole ika situation, so your accusation against me being ika's partner just seems like out of nowhere there.
But if that isn't it, then present your case against me clearly, rather than making nonsense assumptions that Im flustered cos our supposed plans falling apart

Well part of it was the lack of a nightkill could've been part of the flustered part but the flustered before the ika wagon does kinda ruin my narrative. Lousy facts getting in the way of a nice simple story.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

This conversation was one of the first things that made me nervous about this pair. It was random, and I didn't understand the point. However, I believe it was used to cover up day talk on strategy. DDD makes hardcore emphasis to the number 3 in the above post. I looked, and I am the third player listed in the first post by the moderator. I feel its DDD telling Bitmap to go after me for the lynch.

So pregame Bitmap and I were talking in our scum QT and I told him, Bitmap you need to have exactly the 13th and 23rd posts in the game so that 30 some odd posts into the game I can signal to you that I want the third person in the game lynched but don't want to get my hands dirty.

I believe this is continued "scum strategy." Bitmap is telling DDD that he didn't pick up the secret text??

And then despite me specifically telling him that and him doing it, he forgot our secret me saying the number 3 code, what a maroon.

Bitmap puts a hollow attempt to start a bandwagon on me, just as requested.

Damn right, it took him six days to do what I wanted but we got there by golly.

~~

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bitmap puts a hollow attempt to start a bandwagon on me, just as requested.

Damn right, it took him

six

days to do what I wanted but we got there by golly.

Uh oh, nobody better vote for, checks sixth player in Alive list, Drixx or Diego will think you're my partner in secret collusion.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Anyways, besides being hilarious, Diego's post was actually really useful. I mean Diego is way town for that nonsense. There is no way scum exhibit that sort of paranoia, why would scum think they're being suspected, they know they're not being targeted and scum would actually come up with a decent reason for suspecting someone instead of that. That is pure Grade A town crazy.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, look, I don't have all of it figured out. I can't, I wasn't there pre-game. But, I don't think it went anyway you just described. More likely, the conversation went, "Bitmap, I'm going to leak to you who I want you to go after. Pay attention, it'll be disguised."

Is it so crazy that you, or any scum for that matter, would attempt to converse with a scum partner in-game? It was very subtle, and easily dismissed and it seems everyone is doing just that.

Fine, I'll treat this with a seriousness it doesn't deserve. I'm pretty sure the only thing I say pre-game to my scum partner if I say anything at all is some general advice about having an opinion. Second, I don't attempt to communicate with my scum partners in thread since the newbie setup removed scum role cops from the potential list of powers (except maybe to try to organize a quick hammer in town LYLO). That's self-meta so feel free to take it with a grain of salt but I encourage you to do some research and I think what you'll find backs up my statements.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

But now I'm out of scum reads. Guess I'll read over the thread again while waiting for Seraphim and zombiekitty to post.

Let me help you then with that scum read.

VOTE: numberQ

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Haha that was from a long time ago. But yes, generally speaking DDD tends to play very aggressive. Even if we assume he's having an "off game," he does not pursue any player with any sort of energy and sort of seems to passively move from wagon to wagon. His vote for NumberQ comes off as weak to me. Just ISO him and you'll see what I mean.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Blarg, preview not submit, idiot.

I mean I disagree with this strongly and obviously; the game hadn't gotten to a point where someone needed to die yesterday when I had to be away for like four/five days and when I came back I wanted to change my vote but avoiding a no lynch was the higher priority for me. Then when I did get the opportunity I did aggressively go right after ika and got him lynched. And annoyingly you've interjected yourself where you didn't need to in regards to the numberQ vote but sufficed to say I haven't dithered with the vote, I voted and haven't tried to tap dance away from it or anything.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

"Annoyingly?" I am free to interject myself wherever I see scum behavior k thanks.

Also, ika was maaaaaajor low-hanging fruit. I know that is meaningless given that I'm coming in post-flip but your case on ika was less than impressive and sort of pushed itself. But I digress. Honestly, I had a scumread on you from your second post where you buddy Bitmap super hard without contributing anything new of your own. It's super jokey but it looks like bullshit to me.

You're free to do whatever you want but it seems like new players

I will take a look at his ISO although I got a different impression from his NumberQ vote than you did.

understood what was going on while you were busy interjecting yourself before I could get a reaction.

And isn't the comment about the ika case self-contradictory? Either it was impressive and did all the work itself and I didn't need to do any work once I laid it out there or it was less than impressive and I worked to make the lynch happen. I'm fine with it either way and fine with that wagon, 10/10 would lynch for those crimes again. As for the Bitmap point, and? Feel free to look back at my history; I goof around and interact differently with those I have experience with.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD, I'm starting to see things the way Seraphim and Drixx (and iirc, ika) do/did, regarding your scumminess. Can you point to any instances of activity from you to refute their claim that you're too passive? I looked through your ISO but I want to hear your answer.

Sorry I forgot, how many wagons did you start that ended in a lynch? Drixx? Bitmap/Seraphim? Pretty sure I'm "up" 1-0 against everyone in this regard of doing the only thing that really matters for the town. If I'm "too passive" and I'm the only one who managed to get a successful lynch through what does that make the rest of you?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And yes, I was on that wagon as well, but I'm not using it as my sole example of town behavior. Day 2 talk felt severely clouded by ika's fidgeting, so I'm not sure that's a shining example of activity anyway. Like Seraphim said (and you were so quick to dismiss), ika was an easy lynch. It would have happened with or without you, and you were not the only driving force behind that wagon. What else have you done?

This is such revisionist bullshit; every player other than Pramitz had a chance to start the day with an ika case/vote, every single one of them declined. That was my case and my vote that everyone else flocked to and drove ika over the deep end making him the easy lynch you're pretending he was from the start.

However, I do feel DDD is playing this game trying to reveal as little information as possible. He voted NumberQ, and still has not given his reason for it.

I was throwing a proverbial brick at his head trying to get a reaction.

Seraphim has been pushing his vote hardcore against DDD since the moment he's arrived, and it just feels like bussing to me.

...why does your mind immediately jump to bussing?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That's a great and helpful pro-town reaction. Complain about the case against you. That's what ika did. So if you are town, I'd rethink that strategy.

I mean it wasn't effective or helpful for ika, but ika was town. Also I'm not sure why you're giving advice to someone you ostensibly think is scum.

You caught me DDD. Trying to answer this question, I realized it was confirmation biased. I have no reason to believe it was bussing other than I wanted it to be bussing.

Therefore, VOTE: DDD.

Nope, not working.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What you didn't like that Diego admitted his bias, and then voted you because of it?

No, I'm trying to figure out why Diego is biased in that direction; why he has an investment in that particular stance and I'm struggling to do so.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@mod: I've never done this before and it feels awful to do so now but I literally can't summon any motivation for mafia and thus need to request to be replaced. Apologies to everyone for the awful example but you deserve to have an IC who'll give the game some effort.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Once again apologies for the awful example; I had a mental case I was going to make on NumberQ (which may or may not have worked but I felt it was reasonably strong) and I'd just go "well I'll make the case after work" and then it was "I'll make the case tomorrow" and then it was "I'll make the case on Saturday" and then I realized I was never going to make the case and was just doing nothing for awful days on end and all my interest and energy in playing mafia was gone.