Newbie 1596: Exotic Birds (Game Over)

[saad]

the mafia could be anywhere, watch out!

[saad]

Hello all, lets start this off.

VOTE: saad
Because your name is shortest.

U could be mafia, even.

[saad]

Hey BBT. Been a very short while

short while is an oxymoron and an oxymoron is a contradiction between two words (the word oxymoron in itself is an oxymoron; with oxy meaning dull in latin and moron meaning sharp). only the scum contradict because THEY are the ones lying.

VOTE: Skold

[saad]

Hey BBT. Been a very short while

short while is an oxymoron and an oxymoron is a contradiction between two words (the word oxymoron in itself is an oxymoron; with oxy meaning dull in latin and moron meaning sharp). only the scum contradict because THEY are the ones lying.

VOTE: Skold

Other way around, and greek, not latin

reason still stands, blame my source.

[saad]

ok bluebloodedtoffee, now it's time to get down to business.

why the vote on me?

[saad]

saad's reason to vote looked a little too fabricated to me. Definitely on the scum-side of null for me. But I am considering the fact that he's new and that the first random vote fell on him, which could have scared him a little, so I'm very curious to read more from him. So my vote stays for now.

BBT wants to get out of RVS, that looks very townie to me.

Skold isn't in a rush to get out of RVS, and at this stage this doesn't really alarm me. Not much more content to work with. Still null.

About plotinus: let me say right now we just finished a game together (I'm not a big believer in meta myself but if anyone is curious, here it is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=61104)
@lotinus: I don't really understand what you mean with town voting block. Didn't want to ask before you got an answer, but that is still not making it too clear to me. And I also can't find it at the wiki.

Everyone else still reads null to me, so I hope they start posting (more) soon.

not townie at all lol. seems like thats an excuse for an early tr to me.

[saad]

nice avi wyvernite.

[saad]

Saad, I will ask you this; why did you not RVS in your first post?

rvs is shit, my vote was a serious vote.

[saad]

not townie at all lol. seems like thats an excuse for an early tr to me.

Saad had seemed null up until this post. It could be nerves, as wanderer I believe pointed out, due to him being first vote. This however seems to be scummy. He doesn't really provide an argument/defense of his own, and instead just tries to deflect suspicion onto BBT for pointing a finger, which isn't really anything to get overly wound-up about. I feel like he's subtly trying to start a BW on BBT. All of this is theory ofc, it's a bit too early in the game to be incredibly sure of ones' reads/accusations.

you are misinterpreting what i am saying.

[saad]

VOTE: Saad

As soon as a single vote fell he defended himself. A sign of a noob, yes, but a sign of a scummy noob.
That being said, I would really hate to meta down a newbie game like that. So let's hope I'm wrong.

you're jumping to conclusions mate.

don't like that safeguard attempt though, keeping my eye on you.

[saad]

not townie at all lol. seems like thats an excuse for an early tr to me.

Saad had seemed null up until this post. It could be nerves, as wanderer I believe pointed out, due to him being first vote. This however seems to be scummy. He doesn't really provide an argument/defense of his own, and instead just tries to deflect suspicion onto BBT for pointing a finger, which isn't really anything to get overly wound-up about. I feel like he's subtly trying to start a BW on BBT. All of this is theory ofc, it's a bit too early in the game to be incredibly sure of ones' reads/accusations.

you are misinterpreting what i am saying.

If I'm not understanding, or am misinterpreting your post, clarify it for me. Don't just tell me I'm wrong.

well the post wasn't directed at bluebloodtoffee, it was directed at wanderer. wanderer said that BBT wanting to end the RVS was really towny, I was saying that it's not towny, it's a null tell. scum can easily do that to look towny.

[saad]

Saad, you're sticking with the story that your first vote was serious?

yes

[saad]

VOTE: Saad

As soon as a single vote fell he defended himself. A sign of a noob, yes, but a sign of a scummy noob.
That being said, I would really hate to meta down a newbie game like that. So let's hope I'm wrong.

you're jumping to conclusions mate.

don't like that safeguard attempt though, keeping my eye on you.

You keep saying that we're reading into, or misinterpreting what you're saying, and then don't give clarification. This comes off as very scummy, even if you aren't. It's a red flag. You also keep throwing out

half-assed reads on scum

. You're gonna have to put more content in your posts than just "you're reading that wrong, and because of abc I think you're acting kinda scummy" you really need to clarify if we're actually misreading your posts like you claim we are.

half assed reads on scum???? don't remember calling him scum, all i said is that i didn't like that post.

Slip?

[saad]

OK.

Here are my thoughts on it;

the mafia could be anywhere, watch out!

This is scum unsure about how to approach the game. You feel uncomfortable voting 'randomly' because you know everybodies alignments. It's also a subtle way of saying 'Hey, I have no idea who scum are!'

short while is an oxymoron and an oxymoron is a contradiction between two words (the word oxymoron in itself is an oxymoron; with oxy meaning dull in latin and moron meaning sharp). only the scum contradict because THEY are the ones lying.

VOTE: Skold

This is you flat out copying Skold's RVS vote in 9. This is an attempt to fit in, you wasn't sure how to vote without drawing attention to yourself (scum are much more self-aware and careful with their actions than town) and you found what you thought was a good choice in copying somebody elses style of RVS voting.

The fact you're trying to claim that it was a serious vote (to excuse not voting earlier) is laughable.

Votes should be piling onto Saad now.

i like the way ur thinking.

first was just an innocuous comment lol

second, well Skold is 14 and I thought an early vote would put pressure onto him, so no it wasn't a random vote it was a serious vote, putting pressure on him. he's young, so if he's scum, he's more likely to squeal, that's the way i see it. kids aren't usually experienced liars. also his content throughout the game has been non serious, trollish filler comments so the vote sticks for now.

[saad]

If you read my other posts I say subtlely claiming. You keep throwing out all of these fluff posts that don't really mean all that much, while still implying that the other person is acting shady. You're doing this because you're scum, and want to be able to backpedal out of your words easily. It's showing through.
UNVOTE: Skold
VOTE: Saad

actually you're scum, and nice to see you ignored my 'slip' comment.

VOTE: Wyvernite

[saad]

I'm not buying that defense.

An early vote with random reasoning? That doesn't scream 'applying pressure' to me.

PEdit -

Saad is L-1. If anybody votes Saad without stating intent to hammer (to give him time to claim) that will be taken as a scum-claim and you will be turbo-lynched tomorrow.

This is pressure saad. Are you feeling it?

no

[saad]

D1 isn't going to end quickly.

We still need intent to hammer and then a claim.

Then, we have some discussing to do.

no we don't. there's no reason to make me claim this early lol

[saad]

VOTE: Saad

As soon as a single vote fell he defended himself. A sign of a noob, yes, but a sign of a scummy noob.
That being said, I would really hate to meta down a newbie game like that. So let's hope I'm wrong.

you're jumping to conclusions mate.

don't like that safeguard attempt though, keeping my eye on you.

You keep saying that we're reading into, or misinterpreting what you're saying, and then don't give clarification. This comes off as very scummy, even if you aren't. It's a red flag.

You also keep throwing out half-assed reads on scum

. You're gonna have to put more content in your posts than just "you're reading that wrong, and because of abc I think you're acting kinda scummy" you really need to clarify if we're actually misreading your posts like you claim we are.

did no one even notice this FFS, actually read what other people are saying pls, it's a team effort.

[saad]

Yeah, there is.

I want you lynched.

cute. i hope you're scum but I don't think you are, because if you're town, then roberto martinez has more chance of winning than you do.

[saad]

i'm a villager. great job town.

before some asshat hammers me, i'll out what I have so far in terms of reads.

BBT: sadly town, this push he's doing on me is suicide if he's scum

singersinger: town for that early tr, he/she seemed confident on it, scum don't like to out early townreads.

wanderer: town, but a weak town in terms of being manipulated. just don't listen to everyone like u listened to BBT, remember U don't know who scum are.

Wyvernite: scum for what he said and how quickly he changed his read, he saw the bw and leapt onto it.

mofonugen: scum, gave a shitty reason for voting me then safeguarded


everyone else is pretty null

[saad]

i was looking forward to this game too

now can someone unvote me so we can discuss, i don't want to sign up for another game and risk flipping scum.

[saad]

"Meta Down the game" to me, means I don't want to use assumptions based on other games I have played to further influence how new people play. Though it seems that everyone here has at least some experience, so I suppose that point is null.

saad, I don't think my reason for voting you was shitty at all. Considering there are multiple people voting you for nearly the same reason.

I'm not sure why you're so intent on not getting lynched if you're vanilla. Yeah, it sucks to die early. But if you truly want your faction to win, it's better to have a vanilla die than a PR.
Also, I wasn't expecting the posting rate to nearly be this fast. I've got some work to do, but I'll check the thread again in a few hours.

ffs this is so blatantly scum.

your reason: i defended myself when someone voted me, you twisted that tbh, it was an innocuous comment.

BBT's reason: thinks I'm lying in terms of the skold vote and thinks i am trying to fit in.

wanderer's reason: because BBT told him to

wyvernite's reason: i'm posting 'fluff'.


all look like different reasons to me.

I'm not sure why you're so intent on not getting lynched if you're vanilla. Yeah, it sucks to die early. But if you truly want your faction to win, it's better to have a vanilla die than a PR.

i'd rather play than see my faction win tbh, and it seems like you're giving someone a justifiable reason to vote me.

VOTE: Mofonugen

[saad]

Actually, I don't believe him at all. He claimed villager. It clearly states in the setup and the sample role PM's that the role is called Vanilla Townie.

loool IT'S THE SAME THING i can't believe you're using that as a serious argument

[saad]

i was looking forward to this game too

now can someone unvote me so we can discuss, i don't want to sign up for another game and risk flipping scum.

I don't like this, feels like an AtE.

I think saad's reads list could have been made by both town or scum.
@saad: why are you townreading BBT?

because I don't see scum pushing this hard on me. it's a newbie game, newbies are more likely to get paranoid about things like that, so if BBT is scum then he's playing an incredibly reckless game.

[saad]

Actually, I don't believe him at all. He claimed villager. It clearly states in the setup and the sample role PM's that the role is called Vanilla Townie.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

jesus christ i'm in disbelief

[saad]

I would be too if I were scum about to be lynched 5 pages into a game.

no i'm in disbelief at how terrible you are. you're supposed to be an SE, a semi-experienced player.

1. you're not reading what the others are saying

2. you said that when I had claimed we would discuss, all you have done is tunnel me further and used Mofonugen's absolutely hilarious reason as another factor into your reasons for wanting me lynched.

[saad]

i was looking forward to this game too

now can someone unvote me so we can discuss, i don't want to sign up for another game and risk flipping scum.

if you're worried about the long wait between doing /in in the newbie queue and a game starting, there are always people asking for replacements, that can get you into more games faster. If you try to always be playing two at once then it won't be so sad if you get night killed or lynched early on.

people only wanna play as town, if i replace i'd likely get a scum slot from a guy who lurked because he flipped scum.

also 2 games at a time is too much, i like to concentrate on one game.

[saad]

Are we not discussing right now?

You're right though, I have focused on you more than anyone else.

you started to, then you used Mofonugen's crap reason as to why i could be scum then said:

I would be too if I were scum about to be lynched 5 pages into a game.

so no, not really discussing are we, you are still sure I am scum and not really using any fresh, valid points to back that up. also can you read Mofonugen pls, who is actually mafia?

[saad]

i have refuted them

[saad]

also i have gone from 'Goon' to 'Mafia Scum'.

[saad]

Saad, what would you have claimed if you rolled scum in this game?

don't know tbh, probably villager.

[saad]

i mean Vanilla Townie, sorry

[saad]

Why?

because claiming pr would be a suicide move. the intent for scum at d1 is to survive, therefore I wouldn't make such a kamikaze play, i would be dumb to.

[saad]

UNVOTE:

[saad]

great so bbt is scum

[saad]

not voting anyone except bbt tomorrow

[saad]

ffs i was trying to protect him.

VOTE: Plotinus

also this is why RVS is stupid.

[saad]

ffs i was trying to protect him.

VOTE: Plotinus

also this is why RVS is stupid.

Excuse me?

what?

[saad]

bluebloodedtoffee

[saad]

saad, are you talking about the things you said in twilight last night? Did you think bbt was likely to be nightkilled?

no, i thought scum would try and get him lynched.

i tried to protect him by saying i would tunnel him all of day two.

[saad]

So what's with the vote on plotinus?

well first of all i'll say this. i do think his vote on mofogugen if that was his name was an unintentional hammer, but i do think the intention of the vote was to push on him unnoticed if you get what i mean. also this i feel comfortable with:

So, did everyone get the role they wanted?

seems like a strange thing to ask. scum trying to fit in or nervous scum trying to break the ice?

also his lack of reaction to my vote is quite suspicious, he questions if i expected bbt to be killed rather why i voted him? is

this

scum trying not to look scummy by reacting to an early vote?

most of the other stuff is just filler material but there is a contradiction in his play i think, as in his cautiousness to vote me, despite scumreading me early, then voting mofogugen as a pressure vote. why didn't he pressure vote me? why only mofogugen? he fossed us both yet he only voted one of us.


my powers are my voice and the right to vote, hence why i am using my voice and voting my scumread.

[saad]

*uncomfortable

[saad]

*not reacting, i should have proof read.

[saad]

UNVOTE:

[saad]

i wish to ask the moderator a game related question

[saad]

i'll ask here, in this thread.

[saad]

@Argos That's what I think now too. When BBT was doing it it seemed like BBT knew what they were doing but I no longer think it was a good idea. The last paragraph of 183 is my current opinion on this technique. The post you quoted was an attempt to remember what I was thinking at the time at Wanderer's request.

What we got out of saad was not all that convincing, most people seemed to be dropping it not because they believed the claim but just because they wanted to focus on other people too.

Slight town lean on argos for now because I like his contributions so far. I am trying not to townlean him just because of that metaphor at the end of 182 because I know writing evocatively is not indicative of alignment but it's probably influencing my townlean anyway. He also hasn't said anything yet that I disagree with, which is also not alignment indicative but it's nice.

i like this guy and i completely disagree that argos has towntold.

[saad]

Yeah please don't sheep me for the sake of sheeping. I will offer what I can, but I'm certainly not infallible, and in fact have lost a lot of newbie games lately (minus the most recent one I was scum in).

That being said, I quoted BBT because I, also, "am inclined to agree" with that statement.

So. I basically have two theories right now:
1. Newbie scum tend to be fairly obvious when put under suspicion. I know people don't really agree with NKA (night kill analysis) that often, but there wasn't a whole lot of time to process much that went on D1, so they didn't have much to work with. I actually found BBT suspicious for the way he took control of the town because it resembled my last game with him where he was my scum buddy, but then he flipped town and obviously that went away. In that way, I want to lynch saad.

2. ICs often get NKed first. I find that I either get NKed first or make it to endgame in newbie games (this is all as town because I've only ever ICed as scum once). Granted, I didn't contribute much because of work and how long the day was, but the last time I had few contributions due to replacing in late, I was NKed anyway because scum wanted to get rid of someone who couldn't be used for NKA due to lack of information. Anyway! My other theory was that when not actively being scumread, maybe I was kept alive do to a townread I'd state that was wrong. In that way, I'd alternatively lynch Wanderer.

I think my second theory is much more shallow than the first, so unless I convince myself I'm wrong about my town read, I'm not going there yet.

so in the two games you've ic'ed in as scum, what sort of townies were kept alive? i see quite an influential townie in BBT was killed last night, explain that one to me.

[saad]

[saad]

Wow, I'm dumb...I read the OP to confirm who the SEs were, and was like "when did Flying Around replace into this game?" >_>

ALSO. I changed my mind after reading Skold's ISO. It's pretty terrible! Out of 9 posts, he makes a couple of jokes and then ultimately shows up to throw out a random theory to land on something he hasn't even bothered looking into himself yet. Regardless of how long this game has actually been open (about two and a half real life days' worth of posting), he still hasn't bothered being actively engaged or providing anything substantial to the game. Reads a lot like flying under the radar.

vote: Skold

Preview Edit:
I've only been scum once (in my last game) as an IC. I also don't really feel comfortable answering that question because I feel like it's spoon feeding scum the right way to play. I think that even if you're not scum, the scum team could inadvertently be coached by my answer and therefore potentially not be caught based on an ideal play.

You're right that BBT was influential. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking me to explain to you...

what about that other newbie game you were scum in? Newbie 1596: Exotic Birds Edition?

[saad]

Is saad a native English speaker? That could explain at least some of the oddness of his posts. Singersigner's recent burst of activity puts them on the right side of 'town' for me right now, either that or very good scum. I think I read in one of the threads I was lurking in before I joined that scum are more likely to switch out, so if Skold ends up not coming back that could be a bit troublesome, though I don't know whether his relative experience shifts those numbers at all. Don't want to rush to judgement based on statistics, but I'm eager to hear what he or his replacement have to say.

thx for towntelling

[saad]

ill explain singer scumread tomorrow. you're going down sunshine

[saad]

ffs lol i got bored, sry bout that, no i dont want replacing.

case coming

[saad]

if anyone hammers me now they are confirmed scum

[saad]

i think i remember argos and wanderer being town.

[saad]

actually just replace me, get someone who will play the game, sorry for the inconvenience.

its singer and wyvernite

[saad]

just no motivation to play at all