Newbie 1646 - Mafiascum University Class 106 - OVER!

[newbieinmafia]

/confirm

[newbieinmafia]

1) How often do you expect to post?
2) What and how much experience have you had playing mafia?
3) Do you prefer playing town or scum and why?

1) I hope to post once a day.
2) Not much. I tried playing Town of Salem or Mafia Mystery (app) recently but they didn't help me much because the days and nights go by fast.
3) Town because I think I am really obvious as scum.

btw, do we have to lynch someone on day 1?

[newbieinmafia]

btw, do we have to lynch someone on day 1?

We don't

have

to lynch someone, but no lynching would be a bad idea.

Assuming no power role shenanigans, we can mislynch 2 townies without losing. If we no lynch once, then we lose the extra lynch, along with all the extra information that lynching a player would give us. Basically, we would be starting Day 2 in the exact same situation, minus one townie.

What do you think about eimim right now?

Oh I see. Thanks!

About eimim, it's possible that she just forgot to vote (as stated in post #22) so I am not that suspicious of her yet.

After reading everything so far though, I find it weird about Fugitive's claim that finding the first scum was easy (#23). I mean we don't have much information to say it with a certainty as it sounds like to me. It could be Fugitive's play style so I don't know.

[newbieinmafia]

@Fugitive - I just thought we should broaden our suspicion instead of just focusing on one to get more info. So it's fine if you are suspicious of me as well, we have two weeks to talk it out.

@Jaack and Willow - It's true that she could be lying too so I never had a problem with your reasoning. About what happened after, I do think she got (somewhat overly) defensive when she called out Fugitive in jumping on the bandwagon. Personally, I wouldn't call it out because it's just two people and it's only the beginning so people will most likely change their votes later.
I just find Fugitive's certainty weird because I wouldn't act like that. I am looking at these things in terms of how I would act so my view is narrow. I will work on it.

I don't know how to go about getting more info, I am just mainly going with the flow and talk about my views on things.

[newbieinmafia]

I am here, I just didn't know what to say. Sorry!

I will backtrack the thread again and see if I miss anything.

[newbieinmafia]

umm for now, I actually town read Fugitive. I doubt he will care much about people who are inactive if he was mafia. Mafia don't need to gain as much information as Town so they will probably just try to fit in. I am actually bad at scum read or any other read in general but Regfan's posts have been helpful so I am leaning toward Town for him as well.

[newbieinmafia]

I think willow, vijay and eimim. For the first two, their posts haven't been helpful in attempt to help town or anything. Eimim is kind of similar but it could be because she is too busy in defending herself.

Bear - null
and Jaack - leaning toward town

[newbieinmafia]

@Bear and Reg: Yes, I am leaning Jaack toward town because of Reg's post mainly and I didn't see anything suspicious. That is why I didn't post about him in my first post about the town read (#115) and why I didn't have a reason in post #117. I added him there so I don't miss anyone.
While the same could be said for me being unhelpful, I share my thoughts more compare to the two so I feel like I am giving more info? I know it's probably not that strong of a reason but that's just what I thought.

[newbieinmafia]

oh I just realized I missed Kadston.. I kind of get a town read on him as well because he said that he prefer playing mafia because of the strategy involved with it (#32) and he doesn't seem motivated or coming up with strategy with the way he responded when put pressure on by Bear.

[newbieinmafia]

I usually go by thr name of Petyr. This past few weeks, I've been Niska on Westeros.


And I get town gut read from eimi now. So assuminh she's town won't actually be a problem in itself.


But it still makes sense annalyzing the wagon with the idea that she's town in mind. Like I create two different scenarios, two differeny worlds in my mind. One in which Eimi is town and then I start questioning the wagon, one where Eimi is scum and people are already questioning him so I don'g have to do that. Win-win

Can you explain these two different worlds and what's your conclusion for this analysis? I mean the only ones on that wagon were Fugitive (who you concluded was town) and maybe Kadston (who you also leaning toward town).

Sorry if this question had already been answered and I just didn't catch it because I am slow. I would appreciate you explaining it though.

[newbieinmafia]

@Bear - I don't understand how you scum read me based on my scum reads (even if it was with weak reasoning), and the fact that I was influenced by other players regarding Jaack. I mean which part of it was scum behavior and if I was a scum, how would those posts benefit me? unless you think I was trying to fit in with the town or something, I don't get it.

[newbieinmafia]

@Bear - I don't understand how you scum read me based on my scum reads (even if it was with weak reasoning), and the fact that I was influenced by other players regarding Jaack. I mean which part of it was scum behavior and if I was a scum, how would those posts benefit me? unless you think I was trying to fit in with the town or something, I don't get it.

Sheeping= scummy
And I obviously thought you making these posts would be for the purpose of fitting in. Do you have problems when other people question your reads?

No, I don't have a problem. I just asked because you didn't clarify it in your post and only said you didn't like it.

[newbieinmafia]

I haven't voted because I am still unsure (I don't think I have got the hang of it yet) and I was going to vote for Willow but after seeing Postie, I thought better of it.
Also, I feel that my vote wouldn't amount to anything like reaction-testing and I haven't gotten a solid reason to vote someone.

[newbieinmafia]

@Mod - Can I get a vote count please?

[newbieinmafia]

I'm not sure I see it. Situation A would be bad play, sure, but newbieinmafia is, well, a newbie in mafia - why is it unlikely for newbscum to act like this? Situation B might have been a little bit less likely if newbie just made that comment without being prompted, but Jaack asked her for her opinion on eimim in 36, so I don't see her comment as unlikely to come from mafia at all - would you have expected her to give a different opinion as mafia? Surely agreeing with Fugitive would look really opportunistic and quite clearly be a bad move?

Even if I was a newbie-scum, I would know not to draw myself attention by defending a fellow scum so early in the game, especially if eimim got caught.

@newbieinmafia

I am actually bad at scum read or any other read in general but Regfan's posts have been helpful so I am leaning toward Town for him as well.

Could you expand on this? What have you found helpful and why? What do you agree with? Is there anything you disagree with?

I feel that I can understand the logic behind what he's saying and I can agree with most of them. For instance, I would like a post but I don't know why and Reg would generally explain what he likes about them. The only thing I disagree with is about Kadston, I think scum would come up with more excuse instead of avoiding because the avoidance would make them more suspicious. But that could be WIFOM(?) as Eimim said so I don't know. I do think not willing to talk or explain is a bad town play and agree with Reg that switching his votes (not actual switch but shows desire to switch) too often is suspicious.

I realize I probably shouldn't trust Reg too much though.

[newbieinmafia]

Regfan, what do you think of a wagon on vijay? Would you join?

Not Reg but I wouldn't mind joining the wagon actually because I haven't seen much from him and I don't want to put Kadston at L-1 when we have about a week left. Plus, it feels a bit weird to be the only one not voting.

[newbieinmafia]

Thanks, this does explain your reason a lot more clearly. Looking at it from this perspective makes the post more questionable than what I had originally read it as, but I'm not as convinced as you seem to be. My problem with this is that I would expect an SE to know better.

No matter how I look at his posts the only definitive read I get is lazyness. Lazy town or lazy scum, I'm not sure. (Clarification: lazy or disinterested, is there a difference?)

My issue with this sudden wagon againts him is the speed with which it's forming. That makes me a bit uneasy, especially since the game has been so slow in everything else.

I think people are just fed up with how slow the game is being (although I am not helping much) but I see them (including me) changing the votes once vijay is more active or if he's replaced by someone more active. And I was expecting to learn from him as well since he's SE.

VOTE: Vijay

[newbieinmafia]

MY TOWN READ ON NEWBIE IS GONE. HER LAST FEW POSTS HAVE BEEN ULTRA SCUMMY AND I'M NO LONGER COMFORTABLE ON THIS WAGON.

UNVOTE: VIJAY

VOTE: NEWBIE

I am sorry it seemed ultra scummy. I didn't mean to.

Catching up and going to respond to some stuff in a bit.
In the meantime...

@Bearbert D and newbieinmafia

- Why vijay over Kadston? I've got to agree with Jaack here that vijay is useless in a null way, whereas Kadston is useless in a scummy way, so I'm not really understanding those votes at all.

I chose vijay over Kadston because I read that it's not a good idea to put someone at L-1 when you still have a lot of time left (in this case, ~5 days) since someone (perhaps scum) can vote for Kad and we won't be able to use the time left in D1. I was also hoping that by choosing vijay, he might come to defend himself and be more active in general.

[newbieinmafia]

@Fugitive - Beside the reasons stated in 264, I actually thought about voting for vijay before Bear mentioned it so that's why I readily joined the wagon. I also didn't see it going further than my votes at the time so I felt comfortable in that wagon.

And about my reads, they haven't changed much because I am not exactly sure what town or scum tells I should be looking for, which is also the reason why my reads haven't generate much discussion.

[newbieinmafia]

And about my reads, they haven't changed much because I am not exactly sure what town or scum tells I should be looking for, which is also the reason why my reads haven't generate much discussion.

You might find the "Articles" section of the wiki helpful. The following pages have some information on town and scum tells that might be a good start: 1, 2

I do have a question about one of your reads that seems to have changed though; in post 125 you said you were townreading Kadston, but in post 264 you said you didn't vote Kadston because you didn't want to put him at L-1, which seems to imply you no longer have a town read on him - why did you change your mind about him?

Thank you! I wasn't sure where to start so I usually just searched up any questions I had.

I am actually really confused with Kadston. If he is town, he should really help the town in discussion, speak whatever comes to mind, answer any questions and defend himself if needed. Even if he was mistaken as mafia, he should do whatever he can so there's no regret if he dies. His posts in the beginning was fine but after that, it feels like he had given up so there's not much to read. If you think about it, both my reasons for Kadston and vijay were similar: that is both being somewhat unhelpful.

[newbieinmafia]

UNVOTE:

Postie makes a good point, it's probably better to wait for Lia and Reg.

[newbieinmafia]

@Lia, what it is about that Jaack's quote give you bad vibe? I thought it seemed fine.

umm my thoughts haven't changed much since Lia's post so I will go with my initial vote. And there doesn't seem to be any danger of someone hammering before Reg posts.

VOTE: Lia

[newbieinmafia]

If Lia is scum, Regfan is town. If Kadstom is scum, the chances of Regfam scum go up<------ if I won't be here for lynch and I get nightkilled(the wagon on me is stupid and I think Regfan would kill me here)

Why did it go up? Didn't Regfan scum read Kadston?

[newbieinmafia]

@Reg - What I meant by not knowing much about scum tells or town tells in 293 is that whenever I read the posts here, I usually go "Oh yeah, that makes sense" or if I don't agree with the reasoning, I can see how they could derive to that conclusion. That's why it's been difficult to analyze and it's hard to tell what motivation they might have unless someone points it out.

It's not that my reads haven't changed at all, it's just they haven't changed much and I didn't mention it because it makes no difference to the game. Everyone else already read Bear as town. And I had willow/Postie as town because I agreed with most her posts. I mean these changes don't make any difference because even at that time, you could guess that either vijay/Lia or Kadston is going to get lynched.

Well, that's all I got so if it doesn't convince you, I can't really do much about it because I could also see why you and others might find some of my actions scummy.

[newbieinmafia]

Can you hammer please?
Also, your reads are important not only to get somebody lynched, but so we get information about you.

At this point, I don't really mind but is it okay to go ahead with it because someone might want to get their last thoughts in.

[newbieinmafia]

Okay, I will hammer since Kadston is gonna get lynched no matter what. There's no point in delaying the inevitable.

VOTE: Kadston

[newbieinmafia]

@Jaack - Even though I initially townread kadston, I began to doubt myself so I wasn't really sure about it as I had explained in 298. And I just hammered it because it seemed like Kadston is going to be lynch regardless so it didn't matter who hammer it.

[newbieinmafia]

Also, I have question about lynching. I read that it's better to have odd number of players in day phase. Why is that? And when is it good to vote no lynch?

[newbieinmafia]

@newbie - who are your top 2 scum reads?

@eimim - same question.

When I look at players individually and through PoE, I thought Lia and Jaack but their interaction doesn't look like they are both mafia. I choose Jaack because I found it strange that he didn't question vijay (when he was playing) while questioning everyone else. If I go under the assumption that willow/postie is town, Jaack looks even more suspicious because he voted for willow in 138 for not helping town in scum-hunting even though vijay posts also didn't help town much (and yet he thought vijay was fine). So I thought him voting for Lia is more of bussing since by the time Lia comes in, most of us had a clear idea that either Lia or Kadston is going to be lynched on day 1.

[newbieinmafia]

VOTE: Jaack

forgot to vote in my last post.

[newbieinmafia]

@newbie - who are your top 2 scum reads?

@eimim - same question.

When I look at players individually and through PoE, I thought Lia and Jaack but their interaction doesn't look like they are both mafia. I choose Jaack because I found it strange that he didn't question vijay (when he was playing) while questioning everyone else. If I go under the assumption that willow/postie is town, Jaack looks even more suspicious because he voted for willow in 138 for not helping town in scum-hunting even though vijay posts also didn't help town much (and yet he thought vijay was fine). So I thought him voting for Lia is more of bussing since by the time Lia comes in, most of us had a clear idea that either Lia or Kadston is going to be lynched on day 1.

So wait... if it doesn't look like both Lia and I are mafia (i.e. we aren't a scum team), how could I bus her? Wouldn't that require us both being scum?

I'm having real trouble understanding your case here. I explained a lot of the vijay stuff you're referencing in 252, but I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at here. Could you explain in more detail?


As for your question in 408, in a vacuum it is slightly better for town to have an odd number of players than to have one more player for an even number (7 is a bit better than 8), as the extra player does not afford us an extra mislynch (2 mislynches and we lose either way), but it decreases the overall odds of hitting scum with the lynch (2/7 is better odds than 2/8).

But at this point in the game a no lynch isn't particularly useful. There is always the possibility that we stop another night kill via doc/jailkeeper which would afford us an extra mislynch. Furthermore, no lynching would let the scum eliminate the strongest townie, which would probably hurt our odds more than the slight difference between 2/7 and 2/8. No lynching is basically only a good idea in mylo (2 scum v 4 town or 1 scum v 3 town) where a mislynch is more costly (town loses). Even then, if you have any pr confirmed town, a no lynch isn't particularly beneficial.

Yeah, I don't think mine made sense either. I think I am a bit reaching if I say the interaction is planned so that if one is revealed as scum, then the other is safe. If Lia is revealed scum, then people wouldn't think you are also scum since you voted her. If you are revealed scum, then Lia is town since she was suspicious of you. Yeah, my explanation sucks. Honestly, I don't know.. I don't think mafia games are for me. When I was writing that post, there were times I was thinking Lia might be town based on that so...

[newbieinmafia]

I had been thinking and I am sorry but I don't have the confidence to fully commit to the game (there were a few times where I think it would be fine for me to get lynched or night-killed which goes against the spirit of the game - bad teamplay). I have a lot more work and studying to do than I would like this semester and I feel like I am not focused on either one. So I will be asking Zar to find a replacement for me. Sorry, I know it's annoying but it might benefit the game more if the next player is better.

I hope this post doesn't break any rules.
This post should not be used to determine my alignment since I will say the same no matter which team I am in.

[newbieinmafia]

Congrats to town! Sorry I bailed less than half way through. I did follow through with the game, just didn't really analyze it.
Kudos to Jaack for effectively playing his role. Doctor is one of my least favorite PR roles because I never know who to save.

@Zar, is there a mafia PT?