Newbie 1673: University of Mafiascum Class 108 - D4- OVER!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

/confirm

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Game starts now, or do we wait for mod to post?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

This is interesting.

VOTE: Kahlan

Serious vote.

What is everyone's mafia experience?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

This is interesting.

VOTE: Kahlan

Serious vote.

What is everyone's mafia experience?

VOTE: kahlan

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

This is interesting.

VOTE: Kahlan

Serious vote.

What is everyone's mafia experience?

@extrapolated eagle It would seem some of us in here are newbies to the mafia world since we are just learning the game in a newbie forum . Now only some who is truly guilty would be accusing vote as a serious vote. Why are you so worried? Are you scared we are right with our votes?

Based on your response I would say it isn't I who is scared right now, and I have a wagon of three on me.

You do realize you voted someone who gave a reason for their vote and then followed up by asking their reasons for voting are, correct?

Usted is actually my towniest read right now based on his vote, and the fact that your question seems to make his reason for voting seem less than good reason during RVS is questionable.

I would also like to point out that by questioning a player for reasons after placing your own vote down implies that there is reasoning behind your vote as well, which in turn implies that it is not an RVS vote. This gets me curious: what are your reasons for voting me, that are better than usted s reason for voting workdawg?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

3-0 as scummer. No other reason. Why are you voting with drixx on EE?

Well I didn't have a set reason other then I just zoned in on extrapolated eagle name but now that he feels he need to accuse me of serious voting and then vote for me. I think I might be making the right choice with my vote.

I was not accusing you of serious voting at the time, I was stating that my vote was serious.

But now I am accusing you of voting semi seriously at least, seeing as you implied you had reasons for your vote when you asked another player for their reasons.

Now that I see you have no reasons and yet make it seem like Usted should have had reasons, I have to say I feel much better a my vote on you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Extrapolated Eagle what does RVS mean?

Oh. *sigh*

RVS stands for Random Voting Stage. It's a strategy typically used to start off a mafia game in which many players vote different players for random reasons. I.e. "his username is long" It can help jumpstart a game into discussion which leads to content and people reacting to said discussion, which gives people a way to read other people - from the content said people produce from their interactions and discussions.

Other ways players like to start games include: RQS (random questioning stage) and also absolutely nothing. The former can lead to slow, meager starts sometimes, since it is tame, and the last just leads to straight up lurking. Because of these reasons, it is of popular belief at this point in the meta of mafia that RVS is the best way to start a mafia game as it can rile people up and get emotions flowing, which leads to more genuine reactions as people release their raw emotions into the thread.

Out of curiosity, how many mafia games have you played before? How many on a forum?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Really it would seem you are scared because you have so many votes stacked against you. My reasoning for asking @Usted a question to see if he had a valid point against workdawg so that I can see if my decision was the a good choice or not. Now that I've seen that there are other you have voted for you it seems that it's a good choice to stick with. However I don't know what a RVS means?

You see my problem with that is that I think Usted had a plenty valid reason to vote workdawg being one of the first couple posts in the game and the fact that you don't think that reason is good enough, and yet fail to question drixx is curious. Quite so, in fact, because I particularly like Usteds reason for voting workdawg, not because of what it says about workdawg, but because, as I'm sure you know, it shows Usted is wary of workdawg being a player who openly shares the fact that he has not yet lost a game as scum. And the fact that Usted is scared and wary here makes me think he's town - the fear seems quite towny to me. On top of this, you question his reason for voting workdawg, implying that it is not valid to be wary of someone just because they have not lost as mafia, three posts into the game. You actually indirectly defend workdawg, the scummiest type of defending, in my opinion.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Okay I understand usted had a valid reason for his vote against workdawg and You say I didnt think it was a good enough reason? Why because I didn't change my vote? I never said anything against Usted vote if I thought his reasoning was good or not. I question to see if he has a valid reason that I personal cannot see. However I would like to also know why @workdawg has scum 3-0 posted on his first post? It does look bad for him.

Perhaps I worded this strangely.

Usted votes and gives a reason:

I believe the game starts now,
VOTE: workdawg

That sig.

(Important parts bolded for emphasis)

I'm with Drixx VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle VOTE:

@usted why vote for workdawg?

(Important parts bolded for emphasis.)

You ask for more reasons. Implying either
1. You didn't read his whole post and completely missed his reason for voting workdawg or...
2. You don't think usted s reason to vote someone else in the second post of the game was good enough, and you are trying to get Usted to Unvote him. This would be scummy, because you would either be buddying workdawg by defending him, making it more likely for you to get a town read from him later or you're defending him

I honestly don't know which to believe. It's strange you don't know what RVS is but don't need the term scummy explained to you, but if you are as much of a newb as you say you are it could be incredibly likely you are actually scum defending/buddying and not knowing how obvious you look doing it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think that EE is being a bit overzealous on Kahlan questioning my vote. I didn't see her questioning of my vote to be defending Dawg, I just figured that she was trying to start some conversation.

However I do find it strange that no one has mentioned anything to Dominator. Came in, votes like two others already had(sheep), and hasn't said anything since. I feel that noob scum would try to stay under the radar as much as possible, try not to stir much drama, and let town fight it out between themselves.

Also EE this is a newb game so people are gonna have questions. Let's treat everyone with respect.

On the other side of things if you have questions you can ask here or go to:http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

Perhaps. In my experience questionning RVS votes is good and can help get discussion going, but the fact that she questioned a vote that already had a reason behind it was curious to me. Especially since she didn't question drixx as well. I also don't like when people question votes while placing their own without stating their reasoning. So the circumstances surrounding the vote are what make me suspicious. It is RVS, however, so my scumread of her is still light and lacking in a large case to support it. However, I have found that pushing things hard is more likely to get discussion going more and help make more reads as there are more reactions to look back on later. I think a good RVS with heated emotions flying everywhere is helpful towards slingshotting into a solid game for town- by the time everyone gets out of RVS most people are tired of the heat and want to discuss civilly the emotions of earlier.

However, it has been noted that this is a newbie game, so apologies for any disrespect. I am a newbie to this site still, after all, but I learned a lot of the terms and such off on another site that has much shorter games and aren't nearly as serious about them. I also spend a bit of time in the wiki trying to learn the terms new to me, so... It's different for me when someone doesn't know something that seems simple to me. Again, my apologies. I would love to go through this game without making any enemies outside the game.

I have been patiently waiting on the dominator to follow up with some thoughts, as I am quite curious as to his lack of contribution at this point, but up until now I simply chalked my notes on his post up to "just watching, not sure how to get involved" however as of your post I think more than a vote can be expected from people.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

The obvious reason I referred to was that he posted but didn't put up an RVS vote.

There was also a bit of a reaction test there. He also appeared to be trying to get some town cred by appearing to be helpful/cautious and I wanted to see if anyone would pick up on that.

I understand the first reason, and I would have plopped an RVS down if I thought the game had started already, but every other game on this site has started with a mod post, so I wanted to make sure. I don't see how that was alignment indicative at all, but I guess?

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

Well the honest truth is I was in the process of typing out EEs name to vote when Drixx voted before me. I'm very slow at typing ( in the process of practicing ) so I just reworded my vote because I thought that was

how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx.

I was asking questions because I though that is what we were suppose to do to wager on if we are voting right or if votes need to be changed. I honestly didn't realize you have already put a reason to your vote. That is why I asked the question. And still voted for who I was using as my RVS vote.

The bold part pings my scumdar hard.

Also you were going to vote for me before drixx did? Why?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I find drixx's seeming lack of attempt to discuss the actually alignment indicative disturbing.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

1. Your scumdar must be picking up what your dishing out. I could probably ask you the same question

..

2.There were three votes against you why did you pick me?

Before all of my other post you picked me..Like I have said before I'm newbie to all of this so I vote how I thought I was suppose to vote by picking someone. I didn't really have a reason other then your name just popped out to me.

3.I figured once we got our conversation going my vote would change as more facts came to light but instead 3.5. I'm getting hounded by you because I had voted for you and didn't change my vote.

If you haven't notice I have unvoted but it seems like you can let it go.

4. Like your trying to distract others from you or trying to make me look bad because I'm new. 5. Am I just an easy target?

(Bolded and numbered to make responding easier)
1. What does this even mean? Ask me what question?

2. I didn't vote you because you voted for me. I already explained why I voted for you.

3. Implies your vote wouldn't change merely because I'm voting for you/hounding you. This is scummy. The term for it is OMGUS which stands for "oh my gosh you suck" and is scummy because here you somewhat threaten to vote me again if I don't stop voting/hounding you to get stop voting you.

3.5 I have already explained why I voted you and it has little to do with the fact that you're voting me.

- You sheep drixx (follow his vote with no reasoning of your own)
- You ask usted for reasoning behind a vote he already provided without providing reasoning of your own
- You say you follow drixx to make people think you're town
- You get incredibly defensive instead of going aggressive which shows you care more about staying alive than you do about finding scum
- You call yourself an easy target (defensive)
- You repeatedly claim newb (defensive)
- You threaten to vote me because I am voting you
- You buddy drixx and usted

4. Me pushing you attracts attention to me, not pushing it away.

5. Ew. This, too, pings scumdar

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I find drixx's seeming lack of attempt to discuss the actually alignment indicative disturbing.

Now you have my vote for serious.

I very clearly said that either alignment might make a post ensuring it was okay to start the game; however, scum would do so to make a positive impression in people's minds. Since there is no objective way to know just from the original post, I put something in my first post to get reactions.

Thank you for firming up your scummy reaction. You are entirely way too focused on what I'm thinking than you are on trying to interact with people and start to sort them. Your posts reveal a mindset that does not feel town motivated in any way whatsoever.

Yes. And that was noted. It has also been noted that you have nothing to say as far as actual reads are concerned, as I stated before. I do not see how pushing you to share your thoughts on the current game state is scummy, but now that you have clearly stated you have no intention in sharing those things and contributing to the thread except to discourage people from interacting with your IIoA (information over analysis) I have a scum read on you as well.

FoS Drixx

I would still like you to interact with the thread and share your thoughts instead of just chatting about theory and how you will help us with it, however. The other one might not be scum and interactions help me find your scum buddy.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I just said that I'm scum reading you. On top of that, nowhere did I state that I have "...no intention in sharing those things...", so you are misrepresenting me on multiple levels.

Ding ding ding. We've got scum caught in the first 50 posts.

I didn't say you said that. I said you made that clear when you said your vote for me was real because I called you out for not actually contributing. Who's misrepping?

Oh ... and stop with the buzzword soup. It doesn't impress anyone and it can only confuse actual new players.

Let's push EE to L-1 and see if he keeps flailing at that point. My guess is the more the heat is applied, the more squirming we're going to see.

I'm explaining them, aren't I? And I'm not using them to impress people, I'm using them because it's easier to say and I post from my phone.

This paragraph is scummy as trash.
1. Not flailing.
2. Pushing to l-1 but not pushing a lynch? Why wouldn't you just lynch me? Are you scum? You going to turn around and call me town at the last minute for some easy town cred?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Why would not sorting anyone be useful?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

L-1 is a unique amount of pressure. You find out a lot about someone by how they respond to it. I can't do it alone though. I'm content to let others catch up and see if they agree with me that sorting you would be useful.

Why would not sorting anyone be useful?

Serious question, sorry I worded this kinda offensively, I do that a lot on accident and don't notice, so I try to catch it when I do notice.

Did I misinterpret your post? I always thought pushing and sorting everyone is a good idea.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Thus why I want you at L-1 to see how you react and help me firm my read on you.

You must have very interesting games if you have to get everyone up to L-1 to read them.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

Well the honest truth is I was in the process of typing out EEs name to vote when Drixx voted before me. I'm very slow at typing ( in the process of practicing ) so I just reworded my vote because I thought that was how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx. I was asking questions because I though that is what we were suppose to do to wager on if we are voting right or if votes need to be changed. I honestly didn't realize you have already put a reason to your vote. That is why I asked the question. And still voted for who I was using as my RVS vote.

EE, you are misinterpreting part of your case against Kahlan. You said that she was buddying drixx for town cred. She claims to have RVS'd you all on her own and just didn't submit until after drixx made his vote.

I read through this:

I just reworded my vote because I thought that was how I was suppose to do in order to show I'm part of the town and who I wanted to vote for was just the same as Drixx.

as saying she was buddying drixx after seeing preview edit. Am I reading this wrong?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Hi guys,
It seems like we should be out of RVS so I won't be voting.
For now, I find EE over-analyzing or reaching. Kahlan didn't threaten to vote you because you are voting her. She merely defended herself. But I am not sure if EE's jumping to conclusion is scummy or not so I am not willing to put him at L-1. I find it too early since someone can accidentally (or scum) hammer to end the day early.
I find most others (Usted, Drixx and Kahlan; although I agree with EE that Kahlan uses her newbie card a lot) null except Dominator.
@Dominator Why join the wagon and park your vote if you are V/LA?

FoS: Dominator

I am not voting Dom because he's V/LA and I don't want to push someone who might not be there.

Also, to someone who asked how much experience we have, I don't have much but I have been reading a few games here and played a game here a few months ago but I replaced out due to not having enough time.

FoS instead of Vote is nasty. I don't like how not solid this is on anything. Pretty much no stances taken and no vote.

VOTE: newbieinmafia

Let's go here instead.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I just said that I'm scum reading you. On top of that, nowhere did I state that I have "...no intention in sharing those things...", so you are misrepresenting me on multiple levels.

Ding ding ding. We've got scum caught in the first 50 posts.

This is scummy as all hell.

Why is it scummy?

If you are talking about the second part, as far as I know, being overly confident about having caught scum early is not scummy.
If you have different reason, then I would like to hear it.

Just going to toss my opinion into the mix again here:

Typically I would say confidence is a trait coming most often from town. But the things that set me off are the fact that he followed it up with "get you to L-1 so I can sort you"(not verbatim) which is far from being confident in your read.

Which makes me think his confidence is fake. Which would be scummy.

The other thing about his post that I really don't like is the way he seems to be trying to say I'm misrepresenting him without really presenting examples. And I don't believe I misrepresented him, if I did it was not intentionally, and I would have expected a town ic to understand more newbie players are more likely to make mistakes as well and explain themselves instead of accusing one of misrepping them for vague reasons and following up with a confident claim that they are scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Hmm. Ok, I see what everyone says is me misrepresenting.

Here's how I saw it (and I guess what I was trying to say):
1. Drixx votes (later says for reactions)
2. Drixx talks to that one person about how to play
3. Lots of stuff happens between one and two like reactions and stuff that could present reads - drixx talks about none of this
4. I pressure Drixx to share reads and input into thread and stuff
5. Drixx votes me and says he has his reactions (or something like that)

Still doesn't share or really take part in posting of content. Right now all he's done is talk about how I'm scum and 1 and 2 when there are definitely a lot of things that need to be commented on and stuff.

So i guess this is what I'm trying (was trying) to say:

Driscoll votes me after I ask him to take part in thread and hen doesn't take part in thread. To me this is refusal to take part in thread. Perhaps the wya I worded was confusing. I do that a lot too. I apologize for confusion.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So, whats your opinion of him then? Town or Scum?

Also, why?

I have light scum reads on drixx and kahlan. For reasons already stated.

PEdit: how is restating for clarification backtracking? I'm saying the exact same thing I said earlier.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You were putting words in his mouth then you used an excuse to try and clear it up literally right after i voted for you.

Also...why would you even be suspicious of Kahlan? He hasn't exactly contributed to anything...so he's done basically nothing.

Tell me, why are you so keen on asking people so many questions?

Even if you were telling the truth with that excuse, you've been going all Gung ho on asking people questions...these questions of yours are leading to basically no where.

Ummm... Are we reading the same thread?

It wasn't an excuse. I said what I meant again in a different way.

Kahlan has done quite a few things, actually.

You confuse me. Why wouldn't you ask a bunch of questions? I'm pushing people for reads. Do you have strong reads on people right now? I certainly don't. I'm not sure of anyone. But I certainly plan to get there, and it's not going to happen (imo) if you just sit and lurk and watch the game move by you. I'm (trying ) pushing people out of their comfort zone so I can read them where their posts are conjured or rethought over or rewritten to hide their true intentions. I like to read emotions because emotions can help someone find out of they're telling the truth or not. And when people aren't out of their comfort zones they can fake things really well.

So, that's why I'm asking questions - it's a big way that I generate readable content so I can tell who people are. Especially when people react to other people. Like you and drixx are less likely to be a scum team together, IMO, since you are the first one to call him out for his scummy play.

And drixx might be a scum buddy with kahlan because she sort of buddies him and he sort of buddies her when he teaches her, but I doubt it because I don't think drixx would want to try to strongarm his way through a newbie game. So one of them is likely town and the other is likely scum, in my book at this moment in time. If I had not asked the questions I had asked and pushed the people I'd pushed I wouldn't be here now. We might still be voting random people and making up random reasons for it.

So that's why I ask questions and play the way I do. It might not be optimal, but I like it and while I often got lynched day 1 on the other site I played on for it, town often won the game in the end.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

and you're gone when i asked a question, oh well.

next time you're on answer me.

Sorry phone posting so responses aren't super fast.

Although I disagree with 71, I like the post. I would also be suspicious of someone who's trying to drive you to L-1 early in the day. But this site seems to be the one where people drive others to L-1 to get reaction or claim so it's probably not a lack of confidence but more of over confidence.

Also I am fine with 75.

the way I read it he was first saying "you're scum for sure" and then following up with "I can't read you so let's push to L-1 so I can read you"

[Extrapolated Eagle]

the way I read it he was first saying "you're scum for sure" and then following up with "I can't read you so let's push to L-1 so I can read you"

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on it because I find it more as him trying to get reaction to further confirm his reads.

Ok. What do you think of kahlan and that whole interaction?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I like workdawgs post.

Ness confuses me. I think theres being on different pages, and then unthinkable there's being in different books, and then I think there's where ness and I are. I have no idea why on earth she's getting at. Sooo... Ok.

@newbie (is there a better way to shorten your name?) Ok I see why you're saying. Right now I really disagree, but I might be misinterpreting things. I do that a lot when I get my hands dirty at the beginning of the game, so I'll go back and look at it again with fresh eyes tomorrow that aren't as emotionally invested in the thread.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I like workdawgs post.

Ness confuses me. I think theres being on different pages, and then unthinkable there's being in different books, and then I think there's where ness and I are. I have no idea why on earth she's getting at. Sooo... Ok.

@newbie (is there a better way to shorten your name?) Ok I see why you're saying. Right now I really disagree, but I might be misinterpreting things. I do that a lot when I get my hands dirty at the beginning of the game, so I'll go back and look at it again with fresh eyes tomorrow that aren't as emotionally invested in the thread.

1.I'm a dude
2.I am on the same page as you.
3.You're acting like nothing is a big deal, yet you're trying to get answers out of people?

Yeah, i get that asking questions is good. But heres the thing about you.

A)You make things look scummy when they aren't
B)The questions you ask lead to nowhere and don't exactly lead to the progression of finding out roles.

So, are you scum? Probably, but lynching you isn't going to give us any information as to who the other mafia is. That, or you're just a clueless townie with nothing to do.

Nope. Not on the same page at all. I don't understand what you're getting at and it's quite apparent you don't understand what I'm getting at.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Also scummy = subjective. Different people will see different things as scummy based on previous experiences. Like newbie probably doesn't think it's very scummy to fos someone during rvs. That's scummy to me. It looks like someone is afraid to take a stance on someone and on the other site I played on Wed lynch you fast for that business. Idk. But your going to have to get used to playing with people who think and play different than you, bud. Because it's not acceptable to just go around telling people that their playstyle is wrong.

Pedit: yes. I didn't cherry pick drixx. I responded to just about every one of his posts, barring the one where he talks to kahlan about how to play which was irrelevant to alignment, IMO. How is that cherry picking?

My questions push my reads my way. If you've got a problem with that, replace out or get over it. You can't have a solid flow of questions and thoughts that lead somewhere if you don't have somewhere to start and it's really foolish to just progressively push one person all game long.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That's me not admitting I misinterpreted him. That's me saying I worded it in a way that was apparently confusing the first time because everyone was misinterpreting me.

but you're right. If you are on the same page as me as you claim and you read all of that correctly, then you're either stupid or intentionally misrepresenting me. However. Since it is very apparent that you aren't understanding a word I write, I'm going to excuse your ignorance and move on with my life.

PEdit: playstyle talk was at Ness, newbie

@kahlan I push reads my way because that's how I know to push reads.

Pedit 2. My posts are treating you like a complete idiot to mafia because you're completely misinterpreting almost every word I say and then insisting that you understand completely when you say we're on the same page.

And ironic, isn't it, that you get mad at me because you think I talk to you like an idiot, yet you speak to me sarcastically. Yes. I know what pushing is. I have done the most of it since the game started out of any one player. Again the irony strikes, because one reason you are pushing me seems to be because I am pushing my reads.

Pedit 3. So... In other words I've called two out of the four people who have put their vote on me scum, and one person who hasn't? I'm sorry, where's the pattern here? And weren't we just talking about how I was pushing reads and my questions don't lead anywhere? So how am I asking questions if I'm only calling people who vote me scum?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You still confuse me. I hope you know that.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You still confuse me. I hope you know that.

I'm still suspicious of you, hope you know that c:

I should hope you were. It would scare me if you were certain anyone was town at this point in the game.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: drixx

Can't forget this

I like this. Let's go back to this.
VOTE: drixx

Anyway, i'm Ness. I'm a guy, and i want my Avi to be Ness from earthbound but every single google image fails me <3
So this is an RQS (random questions stage) And you don't need to participate in it, but it would be beneficial to the town if you did.

What's your avatar?
What's your time zone?
How often do you expect to post?
Which player in the game do you know best?
Yellow button, green button or red button?

To show you the format you're supposed to answer in, I'll start by answering them myself.

What's your avatar? I want it to be Ness :c
What's your time zone? CST America <3
Which player in the game do you know best? Nobody atm.
How often do you expect to post? Quite a bit, I don't have school till the 4th so yeah.
Yellow button, green button or red button? Red button, I like to blow things up.

and, i repeat, no need to take part in this. But it would help others know what others think.

Avatar is an eagle.
I play in CST 'Murica
I don't know anyone here :/
I post a lot. When I'm on. That can be sporadic. But at least daily. It might die down later when things calm down a bit more.
Red button. I'm aggressive.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Quote my lie, please, Drixx, because I iso'd me again and ai still don't see it. Please also quote what it is in the thread that contradicts directly what I said that was a lie. And since lying includes the intent to deceive, and I don't intend to deceive anyone, there is no way I have actually lied. But I'll chalk your post up to an exaggeration of what you believe to be the truth if you can quote where I lied and what it is in the thread that directly contradicts it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Quote my lie, please, Drixx, because I iso'd me again and ai still don't see it. Please also quote what it is in the thread that contradicts directly what I said that was a lie. And since lying includes the intent to deceive, and I don't intend to deceive anyone, there is no way I have actually lied. But I'll chalk your post up to an exaggeration of what you believe to be the truth if you can quote where I lied and what it is in the thread that directly contradicts it.

I already quoted you putting words in my mouth. You tried to walk it back and call it a misunderstanding.

I'm pretty sure this game is already solved for those paying attention. Feel free to lynch me and see that I'm town and then you can take out EE and his obvious White Knight partner and it should be a rather quick and efficient town win.

I'm sorry. You said, and I quote "lied." Please back it up, or feel free to eat these words.

Since you cannot, perhaps you realize that people use the wrong words for things sometimes and accidental misinterpretation and misrepresentation can happen?

Honestly, i did an RQS because we weren't going anywhere.

I would say that someone being rescued from pressure and then a counter wagon starting on the person applying the pressure (me) was definitely us going somewhere. It may not be anywhere good in terms of today's results ... but once I'm indisputably proven town by my flip, the town should be in good position to breeze through this. I haven't seen a more blatant rescue and counter wagon in a long long time.

I'm sorry, what? I was applying quite a bit of pressure to both you and k. You then voted me to escape from your own pressure. And now all of a sudden, I was rescued from you? Please do explain this to me, for I am woefully confused. No offense, sir, but how much experience do you have with mafia? I need to know if you're experienced enough to be making this stuff up or you are almost as new as us and you actually believe it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Sorry, "stated that your vote on me was serious." You had already voted me during RVS.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Kahlan
What are your thoughts on players this far, especially Drixx?

Also, is English your first language?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@workdawg

Hmm. 141 was... Interesting, to say the least. The tone of it seemed like you were trying to say you were doubtful of the scum reads on me. I like that you reread the thread, but the vote seemed incongruent with the tone of the post. It seemed forced, to say the least. I didn't like it. You also seem to be quite friendly with Drixx, though, for implying he lied about a misrep and after stating he could be scum with kahlan. I don't like it.

VOTE: workdawg

I believe I have already explained my pushes of things and that I may find certain things scummy that others dont, but I will state at this stage in the game I also like to treat posts in the scummiest possible light as well, hence the "portrays things as scummy that other people don't find very scummy." Believe me, there will be a time when my reads are a lot more solid and my vote will sit on scum until he's lynched, but I believe that Day 1 should be drastically different from the rest of the day - I time when reads should be pushed harder and people should be viewed as scummier.

Workdawg, take a stance on something. At the very least give me a solid list of reasons why you're scum reading me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I really don't like how Drixx wagon developed in a small amount of time. 122 in particular, sounds opportunistic since Drixx's playstyle has not been very popular. Ness called out Drixx scummy in 68 but didn't follow up with a vote. Instead, voted for EE in 72. In the same post, he said Drixx is null town. So I don't understand how he goes from null town to scum.

I know I said I don't like voting much early but I really don't like 122. So,
VOTE: Ness

@EE - why do you wait until someone voted for Drixx?
I also don't like how EE jumps votes from one person to another quite easily. It seems like he's keeping his lynch option open so when someone questioned him after a flip, he can fall back on saying he thought the person was scum and already voted for them.

Re 139: I agree but I don't think they planned it out in detail on the first (real-time) day and feel like Drixx would tell her not to sheep as well. These assumptions are based off my experience and a gut read. So, I am not completely denying the possibility. It's just my initial read.

Spoiler: RQS

What's your avatar? Ik-soo from Akatsuki no Yona
What's your time zone? EST
How often do you expect to post? I hope to post once a day.
Which player in the game do you know best? maybe Drixx because I have been reading one of their game.
Yellow button, green button or red button? Yellow

I voted Drixx because I wanted to put pressure there. But I didn't have any momentum behind me to push. So I moved my vote when there was base to develop a force off of.

I personally think it's a bit ridiculous to expect anyone to keep their vote on any one person this early in day 1. Especially because of the lurker problem a lot of people have mentioned. I think swinging my vote around right now is a very good thing because I don't have any solid reads, and some people haven't even responded. I've found leaving people without pressuring them for an entire game leaves you with a player you never really looked at to read. When I move my vote I move momentum and pressure onto a single person and I give people incentive to respond and participate in the thread and maybe get reads off of.

Ugh. Let me rephrase:
I don't want to tunnel one person all day and find out their town and then realize I've ignored everyone else. I want a list of reads where I can say something about everyone. Unpressured players are harder to read than players that have been under the microscope.

My vote will be more solid when my reads are more solid.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@EE - I understand what you mean but I find it worrying that you find half the players scummy and that you said you read posts in "scummiest light" on day 1. atm, my guts say you are not scum though because scum probably won't want to stand out so much.

Haha. I promise I will post a reads list when I've got a solid reads list. I hope this makes you feel at least a little bit better?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I feel like a lot of the things said in Kahlans post didn't happen in the game thread I read. So, I'm going to reread after and get back to this post. But for now,

UNVOTE:

Kahlan I think wd was trying to say that it's bad to assume that because one person asks newbie questions in the thread and another person answers them that those two people are not scum together. I read his post as saying not that it was scummy to ask newbie questions, but that it was not alignment indicative whatsoever, a statement I wholeheartedly agree with.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So the Dom comes back today.

Hi!

VOTE: the Dom

How have you been? What are your thoughts on the thread so far?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

From what I've heard and my experience, scum are most often in the middle of the wagon

[Extrapolated Eagle]

But hey, safe doesn't win wars, right? And scum makes as many mistakes as town does, they are just better informed.

------

I actually disagree with this. I think scum does not make nearly as many mistakes as town does for two reasons:

1. Their only goal is to stay alive longer than everyone else: so they don't have to be as active as town, or as wordy; I've found they're less likely to respond with their emotions, and they are more likely to check their posts over a couple times to make sure they don't actually say something that could bring a lot of suspicion their way. The pressure town has to put on other players to really get reads out of them has to be unreasonable and less than logical, otherwise the thread would remain quiet with people very calmly discussing mafia theory.

2. They're better informed so they don't have to really do any of the things town does to get reads out of people. They already know everyone's alignment and so their reads can magically be whatever won't get them lynched later.

@Kahlan
You could say that I've voted for people who have voted for me, except you would have to forget about Ness(who voted for me but I have not voted) and newbie (who I have voted for but has not voted for me). But it is false to state that I am/have been voting people because they have been voting me. I have given a plethora of reasons for each of my targets, and, as it is still (at least in my mind) RVS (as I have not completely sorted all the players yet), my votes are following people who I have not yet sorted in some form or fashion.

And the fact that you bring up how quiet I've been as well as the fallacious argument that my votes have merely been OMGUS, but somehow fail to mention drixxs absence (which I should note that drixx has been straight up absent from the game, instead of just quiet) is a point towards this being told to you in scum private chat. I think you likely would have noticed these other things should you have come to this discovery on your own.

Who would tell you this, I am not sure, there are two people that come to mind immediately from begging response from the guy pushing the Dom wagon and distracting from the absence of the IC.

I am waiting on mr dominator, at the moment, and quite patiently, but should he be absent much longer my patience will wear thin. The RVS vote drop and go as well his continued absence makes me more and more likely to believe we have a bad case of lurker scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh good. I like my vote on Mr Dom. I think I'll keep it there for a bit. Let me know when you catch up mr scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright. We're about a week into the game, and I think there's enough content out here to begin discussing reads. So I went back and reread the thread, and here's what I've got:

Usted: interesting. I liked his first post and I thought his vote showed a certain fear that I have often felt- a reservation that causes one towards being biased towards reading another player as scum- wd s signature states that he has not yet lost as scum and tbh this intimidated me a bit as well. So I gave him a quick town read at the start. However his tone suddenly changed and I don't see a fear or heightened awareness of work dawgs posts that I get when reading them, so this makes me cautious of usted. At the same time, he does seem to have his head screwed on properly for the most part and I do like how he seems to be trying to figure the game out. He will be a bit harder to read. Null town.

Newbie seems quite intelligent and invested in a way. I like her caution, I don't necessarily agree with what she says all the time, but she shares opinions and I liked her response to my vote on her. Town.

Soul seems not afraid of disagreements and seems like they want the truth more than they are afraid of being lynched. I like they're posts. I would not lynch soul today if my life depended on it, unless they do something really scummy.

Work dash hasn't posted too much but I like a lot of what they have posted. For the most part. Something felt indescribably off about their first post, but their frustration with kahlan seemed genuine and I don't think they would be scum with k if they were scum. Null.

Ness is maybe town. I'm not sure. He seems kinda confused and lost. He frequently changes his mind and jumps and flips like crazy. Some of his stuff is scummy, but I'm going to hold off on pushing him until I get confirmation he feels solid in his play. NULL. Hard null. Maybe scum null. I'm not sure.

Drixx is nasty. A lot of nope there. But he might being IC things. I still don't understand his first post all the way or really feel like I understand what he's saying at all so I'll stay off for now. I do have to say I don't like that he seems to be withholding information, but again, he seems to be doing things I straight up don't understand.

The Dom is also nasty. A huge amount of nope there. Not interested in sharing it appears. Lurks quite a bit. I would totally lynch this today if they don't show up.

Kahlan. Ew. Still probably scum, IMO. Seriously, look at these two posts

Spoiler:

However Kahlan I would like to know the same thing EE has asked several times. Why question my vote, but cast the same vote as drixx. Drixx said his vote was for obvious reasons, but I don't see the reason. (Common to vote the person with /first post?)

Drixx, I know your vote was RVS, but why EE?

@usted I think you have some good points. Although dominator said in his first post v/la ( which I think mean vacation/ limited access?) I would say that's why he hasn't been posting? Then again why come in and just vote and not take part in more post? Maybe your on to something Usted. Maybe dominator is staying quiet so we will fight against each other

Usted asks her a question he wants answered that, as he pointed out, I had asked several times, and instead of answering, she responds by deflecting onto Dom.

On top of constantly and conveniently misunderstanding almost everything (like framing wd for saying we shouldn't give town cred for asking newbie questions), she is far too often reminding us of her status as a new player. Instead of playing the game and looking for reads she attacks those who attack her and backs off when they back off. OMGUS at its finest.

VOTE: Kahlan

Questions/requests:
Ness- reread thread and share thoughts, please. Make sure you're sure if the thoughts you share before you share them.

Drixx I honestly don't know what you're doing, but if you could share thoughts atm, that would be cool.

Dom - participate pls. Reads would be nice. Or claim scum. That works too.

Usted/newbie/soul/work dawg - reads lists. We've got a week left I think or something close. It would be good to start gettting on the same page I think.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Quick post here and I'll be back later this evening:

Soul seems not afraid of disagreements and seems like they want the truth more than they are afraid of being lynched. I like they're posts. I would not lynch soul today if my life depended on it, unless they do something really scummy.

Aw, thanks! I think.

I kinda spent most of my first game (town) in fear of being misunderstood and lynched and I let it color a lot of what I said. Looking back on it, I realize I was just hurting my team in the long run.

The Dom is also nasty. A huge amount of nope there. Not interested in sharing it appears. Lurks quite a bit. I would totally lynch this today if they don't show up.

Damn. I hate to admit this, but Dom is

reeeeeaaaaalllly

quiet. Like -- active lurker quiet.

Regardless of my feelings on anyone else here, I can't ignore that. It's nearing policy lynch status, which bothers me immensely.

I played the first time online about two, three years ago. I was absolutely the worst player I have ever seen at the game. Terrible. I have seen and met many other people by then. Played with a lot of Newbs. Called a lot of people idiots. I still have yet to meet someone who was as bad as I was. I didn't play on mafiascum when I first started, though. I played on some other site. Party of the fact that I played so poorly I justified by being hilariously and grossly misunderstood regularly. Like to the point where I did not want to say anything at all because I completely misinterpreted what everyone around me said. I was lynched day 1 for a year of playing. Then I found mafiascum. I was still nightmareishly bad at the game, but it was here about two years ago that I actually felt understood. I wasn't automatically misinterpreted. And while I only played one or two games to completion, I learned a lot from those two games and now I'm here a few years later with some rl maturity and a little bit more mafia experience and I feel a lot better about my play. I still get biased against people who scum read me a little bit, and I still misunderstand and misinterpret a bit.

But I think I've gotten a lot better. I've learned cool little tricks like restating things a different way if I feel like I've been misunderstood. The other day I decided to instead of saying: "I don't like how he said," I'll try to say "I interpreted him as saying this here." I've found that really making it a point to go the extra mile and minimize miscommunication really helps town stay clear headed and not clouded by emotions. Dont get me wrong, I think a lot of emotions are good when you're pushing to try to read people, because IMO people are more genuine when they're emotional, as well as more likely to show true motivations, but keeping a clear headed town is almost certainly a town win, I think.

Anyways, long drawn out story goes to say I can totally relate, and this is a great place to help fix that, I think. You'll still get jerks but for the most part people here in my experience are great at helping people understand.

---

In response to what you said about Dom I still think ms. Kahlan should go first, but other than that agreed. Speaking of which, how do you feel about her at the moment?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Kahlan I swear. Your posts really get under my skin.
*takes deep breath*
How do you want me to push my reads? Your way? That's hard. It doesn't make sense for me to push reads the way you push them. No. I push reads the way I push them because I can get reads from people when I do that. Everyone pushes reads in the way they push reads, and not the way anyone else pushes their reads. I don't know how or why you don't understand this, it seems like such a simple concept to me.

Now. Let's also think about what you said about Usted. Hmmm. Why would a vote NOT MATTER much at all if it was random and without true reason? Can you think of anything? I'm ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS.

I'm sorry. I'm done being a dick. It just baffles me how you can completely not understand or misrepresent things that seem so simple. You're going to give me a massive headache by the time this game is over, but I hope you're not scum, because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you just don't understand any of these things you keep bringing up.

VOTE: the Dom

PEdit: oh please don't encourage this. She's going to destroy us all with all the misrepresenting she's doing.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Well it seems like i'm being lynched. Well, hopefully my mislynch will help the town in some way.

You have nothing to say? O_o

Your apathy astounds me.

VOTE: Ness

That's L-1. Anyone who wants to hammer should say so before they do so Ness has a chance to claim just in case.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

*sighs*

No way to defend myself right now because i have no idea how to.

Checking in, i've been busy with alot of things.

Well it seems like i'm being lynched. Well, hopefully my mislynch will help the town in some way.

This is the summation of his activity over the last four days. He came in to post because he was prodded. He didn't post any content of use, he said he's literally"checking in." I don't know about you but that seems like he's not planning on adding anything. I also don't see any admittance that he's been flip floppy as heck nor has he posted any solid reads recently. His apathy towards the game seems scum aligned and it doesn't look like he plans on adding to the game any more either.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

UNVOTE:
Ness already claimed so unless we are sure about this lynch, putting him at L-1 for claim is useless.

To clarify: are you against lynching Ness right now or against lynching anyone right now?

If the former, I have to say I was uneasy about his lynch previously, but I think he's quelled my fears.

The latter I understand. however, I think I could see a Dom/Ness scum team and so I don't feel too bad about ending today now, particularly because I feel like a lot of last minute lynches happen and it ends up being town because we haven't had time to talk it through and things, so I want to avoid that as much as possible.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@newbie: you're probably right. I just want to avoid a last minute situation like the other newbie game I was in. We waited until the very last minute and there was almost no lynch whatsoever.

Also. I want to say that these two posts together just add to the reasons Ness should probably be lynched today:

Well it seems like i'm being lynched. Well, hopefully my mislynch will help the town in some way.

Wtf???

How am i at L-1?

PEdit: I've never seen/had a problem with early lynched as town, but I'll take your word for it. The last game I played (and this seemed to be a pretty regular occurrence when I played off site as well) there was a quick last minute wagon and no one really knew what to do with the flip because the person hadn't really done too much and we hadn't prepared for it. I want to avoid that if possible.

PEdit 2: yes, I have said things to and about being suspicious of you. In my reads list I asked you to re-read the thread and post a solid set of reads which you have yet to do. I stated that I thought you were acting scummy but it might just be because you're reacting instead of taking the time to read the thread, but I need to be sure of that so I asked you the question I mentioned a sentence ago. You have yet to make me feel secure about you, in fact your excuse combined with your other recent posts makes me feel a lot better about lynching you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

[Spoiler =][/ spoiler]

Without spaces

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Honestly drixx everyone has a fight or flight response when they feel threatened regardless of alignment. And the way you're talking to newbie, challenging and taunting her, often aggravates an attack. You are probably more experienced Han me, but I expect that means you're more likely to understand that scum (at least in my experience) are LESS likely to fight than town. Because calling an honest man a liar will cause a louder response than calling a liar a liar. The liar might even try to reason with you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I definitely see how 275 reads like scum dipping their toes in the water to see how town will react, but take into account that Dom wasn't on the first reads list and newbie was asked that question and you get to the point where you're scum reading them together for newbie to have posted that intentionally, because it required setup. On top of that, newbie has been holding back and cautious all game, something that has made me uneasy but I'm reading her as town for now. The post you said was scummy was in keeping with the rest of her posts, so I don't see why you're scum read on her should appear out of nowhere for that post.

I think you're trying to cast doubt on someone who is working their way towards being a very strong town read, and this makes me more suspicious of you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Drixx could you link me to a game where you claimed to have pulled a gambit, please? I'm a bit of a gambler myself and I'm curious to see how you pulled it off because to be honest I haven't been that good at selfanalyzing or figuring out what to do with the gambit I've pulled.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I am a bit confused. Were you talking about me or soul in 291?

You.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I am a bit confused. Were you talking about me or soul in 291?

You.

Crap. He was calling soul scum. Ugh. My bad there, sorry. :/.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@zar, I believe drixx unvoted.

~.Fixed. ~~~.Zar

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah I'm quiet because there isn't much to say. I think Ness should post his catch up and reads and stuff soon. I think the fact that he isn't is scummy to me.

Drixx is aggressively quiet. I don't like his gambit claim and disappearance, all I asked for was a game link so I could meta his gambit and see what he was doing if he was really gambitting. It seemed like an excuse for trying to pull the wool over on newer players.

And the dom should straight up replace out.

I think maybe we need to lynch, too. I've seen it noted before (somewhere on the wiki I can't find it right now, maybe a player page?) That if a wagon stalls or something like that then it's probably on scum and they're getting people to get nervous and think about what their doing or something so the wagon gets stale and falls apart. This makes me think we're sitting on a scum wagon right now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Hello!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You didn't happen to read through the game thread before you replaced in, did you?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Kahlan you should (in my opinion) play the game the way it should be played. Regardless of what other people say. Anyone can make an argument for anything being scummy, really, since it's the motivation behind the action, not the action itself, that usually makes one scum. Not doing things because you're afraid people will see you as scum for doing them just leads to you not doing anything and then realizing that people call people who don't do anything scum either. I think that's why it's important to look at why people are committing a scum tell.

Play your game how you would/should play it regardless of people say and if people have a problem with your play and bring it up, discuss your intentions with them and explain why you did what you did. People make mistakes. I've found town often commits more scum tells than scum, simply because scum can be more careful.

Also, I wanted to clear the air by stating I'm saying it's possible the other scum is not on the Ness wagon at the moment and the silence is because of them. Its also possible that said scum was pushing their buddy and just got quiet since the wagon got this far and they're waiting for it to get stale.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

intent to hammer

I've said it befote that I think he is scum and this day isn't going to give us anymore info

He's already claimed VT.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

UNVOTE:

Not ready for hammer now that he's here. Let's talk Ness. I need to eat lunch now but I'll be back in a few minutes.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright: what makes you think one of the mafia are on the wagon? The last newbie game I played both scum stayed off the lynch wagon all the time.

Disregarding your accusations of poor pushes for your lynch, what is your read of soul monarch and work dawg? If these two stop being your number 1 pushes, who does?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Ness. I'm going to revote you at about this time tomorrow if none of my questions are answered. We have two days left in today and I'm not doing this last minute stuff.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

intent to hammer

I've said it befote that I think he is scum and this day isn't going to give us anymore info

He's already claimed VT.

Umm, if you're so sure he is a VT then why was your vote on him, and why are planning to re vote him?

Stating intent to hammer is typically also a request for the person to claim in order to let the person say something if they're doctor or cop. I was saying he already claimed VT, so it's safe to hammer.

If you already knew this I don't know what you're getting at.

Alright: what makes you think one of the mafia are on the wagon? The last newbie game I played both scum stayed off the lynch wagon all the time.

Disregarding your accusations of poor pushes for your lynch, what is your read of soul monarch and work dawg?

If these two stop being your number 1 pushes, who does?

Honestly, its pure speculation on my part. Theres 9 people, theres a .55 chance of there being mafia on my Wagon.

About my reads on WD and Soul, i'm thinking 1 of them could be mafia. Just because they're pushing a lynch doesn't make them mafia no, but i'm just getting a bit of a gut feeling because Workdawg is pushing me way too hard, and soul is also going at me from many angles. However, i think soul isn't mafia but town.

As for the bolded part of your question, i don't understand what you mean here.

I'm asking you if you these two werent your number one scum reads then who would be?

Also I'm confused about some of your statements. You're saying that either soul or workdawg is scum, but not both? And you're leaning workdawg now?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

you can also state an intent to hammer so others can put in their last thoughts before hammering, no?

That's true. That's probably why the confusion happened.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think we get Ness today. I don't like last minute wagons and while some of the stuff Usted has done recently is interesting, I'd rather have time to discuss it and work it out than swap lynch target last minute.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think we get Ness today. I don't like last minute wagons and while some of the stuff Usted has done recently is interesting, I'd rather have time to discuss it and work it out than swap lynch target last minute.

Ahhahaha you say you want to lynch me yet you don't even acknowledge my recent posts

@EE

Now i'd say my other 2 scum would be Kahlan/Usted. Like others are saying about usted his posts are looking funny, and Kahlan because they cherrypicked me just now with a long super in depth post.

I just got off work. I'm sorry, I saw people moving somewhere else and thought that should be said before I get to your posts. I'm getting to it though, gimmme a minute.

And hmm, I actually kind of agree. But your reads here seem a bit omgusy at first look. Let me just go over it, ok?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright, Ness, I read your other post. Your scum read of kahlan seems to be more OMGUS than anything else, which I get, but she has been misunderstanding/misrepresenting everyone and everything. So I'm starting to think maybe that's not a scum tell on her part. I don't know. I will definitely look over my reads again over night.

I do have to say that we now have had three intents given and still no hammer. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing but it's certainly a strange thing.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Deadline is seventeen hours away. I'm not voting him because I unvoted and kahlan revoted. I'm really considering hammering right now, I'm not sure what we're waiting on. The only reason I've waited this long is because there are two intents on the table and I'm assuming that one of them has something they want to do/say that they're waiting on?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Vote NESS

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think Usted needs serious looking into tomorrow regardless of what Ness flips, but especially if he flips scum. Two intents and no movement isn't great

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That's why we need to lynch Ness first.

I was thinking Drixx might have a stronger case but you are right.

Vote NESS

I think it needs to have : for the vote to count (?)

VOTE: Ness

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: Usted

That's a very interesting spin on things you've got there. Very convenient to forget that Drixx seemed to want you dead at the end of yesterday.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Based on the NK choice, it seemed too obvious for Usted to be mafia so I don't know (not sure I want to get into WIFOM this early). I am gonna have to reread.
I was hoping Drixx would be alive for at least one more day.

The way I see it thats exactly the reason he can get away with a drixx nk. He can just WIFOM himself out of it and then theres really no way to analyze the nk because it's all WIFOM. In my experience scum work greater in WIFOM and it makes sense for him to get rid of drixx before he shared anything more. I don't see why anyone else would get rid of him either. If you look, he seemed pretty high on everyone's lynch lists. I think he's a pretty poor nk choice for anyone else.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I love your post soul!

- Workdawg wanted Drixx dead because he recognized that Drixx wielded enough influence to turn the town and nab him... or his partner. In fact, Workdawg had been doing a good job of playing a townie so far -- but Drixx was hunting around his partner and Workdawg wasn't willing to give up his teammate... just yet! It was Workdawg, in the kitchen, with the rope!

A damnit, you got me. I totally tried to make it look like suicide. Drixx hanging from the kitchen lights with the chair pushed just out of reach. Clearly it must have been self inflicted!

I totally read this the first time as you saying you convinced him to commit suicide. Which I thought would have been a reference to "A Study In Pink" which is an episode that very clearly explains WIFOM which circles back to souls post which is filled with WIFOM.

I was about to award you a medal because that would have been one of the most amazing posts I'd ever read if you had done it and done it intentionally. Then I quoted your post to remark with some sum of amazement at your brilliance and then I realized that I had read it wrong.


I want you to know that you spoiled maybe one of the best setups for a full circle reference in the history of mafiascum. You had a royal flush but you folded.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

UNVOTE:

For now. Where would you say we should look if not at you?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Okay So for the past couple of days I have been trying to come up with something to post and I will try my best to post my actual thoughts today. I also have been trying to think of questions to ask but my mind keeps coming up blank and there are so many smooth talkers in here that it's a little hard for me to find scum. I'm going to go back a read again. I'll be back. (Sorry it's taking me longer than I would like to post. Let's just blame my mom brain. Once you have kids your brain is never the same...lol )

I know this feeling. I'm not even sure where to start right now. Drixx and Ness were my big two scum reads.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah, Kahlan has made it to strong town for me as well. I'm sticking with soul as a town read.

@huntress do you have any reads today besides workdawg that are based off of more than the tone of a single post?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah. I've been reading through quite a bit as well.

How do you feel about newbie?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I have to say I agree with soul on this one. I don't think being able to analyze properly makes one scum and I came to similar conclusions he did.

Your responses make it very easy for you to hide as scum behind a wall of ambiguity and I have to say that for a plan that wasn't supposed to really give anything away to scum to bring up that scum know more makes me think that you slipped a little bit there.

VOTE: Usted

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I still don't think soul is a good vote, usted. *sigh* maybe kahlan? Whoever it is plays a good scum game, I think.

I'm going to go with this for now, though:

VOTE: huntress

Not too much content out of this slot and while I liked their recent posts this is more a read on the previous slot. Maybe lurker scummish?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Newbie Kahlan just jumped in my mind at the moment. My last newbie game I lost because I kept a strong town read on bloodking since day 2 and that screwed me over. I guess part of it is paranoia, but you're right. She's probably town. I can't let it get to me on a whim like that.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I still think the way you went about it was sketchy, too, usted. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out you're scum and your qt was filled with how to claim to get you out of suspicion yesterday. The way you respond with OMGUS against anyone suspicious of you is golden. But I don't see many counter claims atm and you do have a buddy so I'm going to keep trusting you for now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I will be okay with either soul or Huntress lynch today for reasons I have stated in 440. So,
VOTE: Huntress

@EE - Can you answer my other question in 458?

@Zar - Can you prod Kahlan? Thanks!

Sorry.
I missed that one somehow. I'm not quite sure of you. I had leaning town on you but... You're hard to read. For me at least. It feels like you don't like to get involved too much and you're very... Detached, which I think helps reads and I like, but it's also... Well it makes people harder to read for me since I read based on interactions and such. I misread dierfire d2 of my other newbie game on this site and it lead to a town loss just because he was not as attached as other people were. So I'm careful about people like you. I think I've got you as town still for now.

@workdawg I'm still pretty sure soul is town so I don't think that's a good lynch today.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

No, Kahlan. I was actually expecting ness to come up with some sort of content, or I wouldn't have defended him. I was incredibly frustrated in that post that he would turn around and refuse to contribute to the thread after I went to defend him.

I have to say that while I've got a town read on you, k, it is really frustrating playing with you since it feels like everything I say/do gets misrepresented or misread by you, and I would one hundred percent scum read you for it if you didn't seem to do it with literally everyone. I have no idea what it is or why you read everything so dang differently from everyone else but I have to tell you that reading your posts sometimes just makes me want to rip all of my hair out of my head, eat it, and then barf it up.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Not attacking you, or at least intending to. Not having a problem with you as a person. Just... It's like if I gave someone a birthday present and instead of being grateful they started talking about that I did it because I wanted to get that good feeling you get when you give someone something.

Oh gosh that's a terrible example. I'm not frustrated with you, per say, but... I don't know. Do you kind of understand the feeling?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Lynch me before we lynch soul, that's how certain I am in my town read of him.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I just doubt scum would get into a discussion like that over power roles. It seems like it only makes him look scummier. And I was town reading him before that and agree with his views. I've gone to say things and then seen them better said by soul. Very not interested in his lynch today.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Huntress is number one. Strong town are kahlan and soul, with Usted, although I agree with soul he seems a bit.. shady about the ordeal. Newbie is... nullish. Detached. As does workdawg, but I'd prefer a newbie lynch over work, I think/.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And that's because Huntress opened with vote on work, which I think is unlikely as scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Just because I don't really show emotions, doesn't mean I am scum though. I can't even defend myself against it because it's just how I play.

I know. It makes me feel bad because that's why I pushed a dier lynch in the last newbie game I played and ... yeah. You people can be hard to read. Right now I just want huntress lynched and then move from there.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Lynch me before we lynch soul, that's how certain I am in my town read of him.

Honestly not a fan of that tactic. Scum tell imo. "I'm such a noble VT you can lynch me"

It was an expression. :/

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Lynch me before we lynch soul, that's how certain I am in my town read of him.

I just doubt scum would get into a discussion like that over power roles. It seems like it only makes him look scummier. And I was town reading him before that and agree with his views. I've gone to say things and then seen them better said by soul. Very not interested in his lynch today.

I don't really like that first post, and that followup... Defending your partner with some WIFOM?

Huntress is number one.

Strong town are kahlan and soul, with Usted, although I agree with soul he seems a bit.. shady about the ordeal. Newbie is... nullish. Detached. As does workdawg, but I'd prefer a newbie lynch over work, I think/.

And that's because Huntress opened with vote on work, which I think is unlikely as scum.

What? These are consecutive posts. Huntress is number one, because of an action that is unlikely as scum? Are you replying to different things here or what, because that makes NO sense at all.

Ugh. No, silly. I'm saying it's unlikely you're scum with huntress because she opened with a vote on you. I'm not saying that makes her any more or less scummy, I'm saying it makes it more likely that youre scum together.

*facepalm*

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm going to "climb fast" if you intentionally misread my posts, buddy.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

In my experience WIFOM clouds scum so that impossible to see, they're true intention is.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The thing I usually use to try to see through WIFOM is to look at the play of the person and ask is it optimal for scum or town. What would it try to do?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I can see that. Doing so would mean that the vote isn't truly random though, right?

TheDom claimed it was in post 206.

So either it was truly RVS, which I would say is suspicious. Or it was put there on purpose to get a reaction and TheDom lied about his intentions.

Since you know his (and now your) alignment, I'm interested about what you think about that...

He didn't say it was random; he said it was rvs. Not the same thing. Very few rvs votes are truly random - in fact deliberately randomising them is frowned on. So no, he didn't lie.

Uhhh...

I'm sorry what? When is deliberately randomising random votes frowned upon? There are intentional votes during rvs but they're stated as intentional.

This sounds like intentional misrepping to me also lynch all liars. You're a good lynch today.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'll dig up some links on that later but the reason is that randomising by using the dice tag or by other methods means that a player is not taking responsibility for his vote, avoiding the chance that inferences can be drawn from it. A few mods even ban the use of dice or other explicit randomisation in their rule-set.


In other news I'm fairly satisfied that newbie, Kahlan and Usted are town so that leaves Soul, Workdawg and Eagle. Neither Soul nor Eagle seem to fit with Workdawg so unless one of my townreads is his partner he's out for now. Of the other two my read on Soul is weaker.

Vote: Extrapolated Eagle

So? I'm sorry this just stinks of bs to me. I can quote multiple games where rngs were used to figure out who to vote. That's ridiculous in my opinion. If you would find one of those games for me that would be awesome, but even then I don't know what I would think of those mods. Random is part of rvs for a reason and making up stuff to protect your predecessor reads as pretty scummy to me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I am not making up stuff. This is site meta and I'm surprised you haven't come across it before.


That is

L-1

by the way.

If someone else has heard of this I'd love to hear it or if you're willing to back up your story, please do so. Until then this reads like lies.

I just don't have words for how ridiculous this claim is, I've been in a game where I think at least two of the votes were literally randomed and ICs introduced newbies to random voting. I mean that most ICs I have played with actually have RANDOMLY voted and drixx is the first I met who gave a real reason while still in RVS. The garbage about "rvs doesn't mean random" is so silly I just... There aren't words. And to say this coming from a guy who seems to not have played too Mich before or know enough about what was going on, your claims about his intentions seem so fake that if you don't flip scum ill actually eat my shoelace and post a video of it online.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'll take this to Mafia Discussion Thread post game then, this actually makes me feel sick.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh my gosh Im sorry I've been absent I had a long day yesterday and I just got home from a 13.5 hour shift because a bunch of people walked out on us today. Catching up now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@work dawg

I disagree. I think there's a problem with the vote whether it was random or not. Random because he didn't do anything with it and three votes is a lot of pressure. It's almost like subtly pushing a lynch w/bandwagon effect. There's no point to rvs if there's no follow-up to the votes and he provided none.

And it's scummy if it wasn't random because he lied about it. All in all I think huntress is my big scum read today, honestly if she flips town I'm sticking with my eat a shoelace and post it online. On top of everything her 581 was nasty manipulative, IMO.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Rereading the thread now. Did anyone see where kahlan might have pr slipped? Because if she didn't then we can say at the very least she was probably night killed because she was a threat.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Hi. Don't prod me!

~.Nope. All three of you are still gaining the prod. ~~~.Zar

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Sorry, I got distracted mid read. I'll keep trying to catch up, this is a big game

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Usted I'm not caught up yet but please don't just throw the game away just because you don't care about it anymore. It's anti town and I'd hate to lose in lylo because conftown got apathetic.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You mean .... We're posting more than everyone else? That wasn't the definition of lurking the last time I looked. But if you'd like to keep your vote on me, do so. I guess I can't hold myself to blame for the loss based on the apparent thought-void in the one person who shouldn't have gotten a role that could be conftown. You want me to catch up or do you want me to sit around and do nothing like everyone else? Or would you rather I bs a bunch of reads like you since apparently you don't care about this game and no one else should either.

Screw you if you aren't going to give me time. Screw you if you're going to sit there impatiently screaming in the back seat "are we there yet?" How about you nag one of the people who hasn't even seemed to attempt to put anything into the game yet?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm sorry for the rant. If you were just going to throw the game away after me reading seventeen pages in between real life and other games, I wish you would have told me earlier, I would much rather have had that time to do other things

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You're right. Newbie, how does one manage to not completely decipher who is lying and who is not in 21 pages of illogical manipulative people with their own thoughts ideas and opinions who are all trying also to figure out who is lying and who is not also while trying not to look like they're lying themselves? I mean this must be completely and very easily decipherable since we don't have other things to do throughout the day or the week, and we definitely don't have some days where we don't have time for a game? Actually anyone else can chime in on this, since the whole thread has been so active and even the conftown himself is so motivated to solve this game he's managed to reread a total of a whopping 0 pages since day start.

I'm sorry, how do expect us to have the motivation to do so much more than you plan to?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Please do explain this to me, because yes, I will admit that I've been demotivated to put much effort in but I've been trying to find time regardless, in spite of the humongous amount of effort, you, our wonderful conftown, has put in.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Now unvote me, usted, I was planning on posting something tonight but I'm too pissed to try. So if you haven't thrown the game by Saturday, I'll try to finish reading by then, I'm busy tomorrow night, and rereadung a thread in depth is not something you can just pop on and do.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Eh. I hate playing scum anyways. I'm sorry for the emotional manipulation, Usted, I didn't mean a word of what I said to you. I think your town game needs work, but everyone played pretty well. I absolutely hate playing scum, it's no fun for me and I don't like lying to people. I'm sorry, guys.

VOTE: Eagle

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Well played all, good game. Thanks zar, it was well run game!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Only having one replacement helped town I think

[Extrapolated Eagle]

At work, explain later

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So I defended soul the way I did particularly because one person put us as the top two scum reads. It was a bit of a gambit to get the scum read off of me, simply because it would be incredibly foolish to say and mean that as scum, since stating a preference for my lynch over the other scum would get me lynched. My goal was that I would wifom people into maybe lynching soul after me, but I wasn't as sure about that. I actually got really scared after posting that, I was pretty sure y'all were actually going to say "ok, let's lynch you then"

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Soul I defended you so strongly partially to help get a stronger town read from people and partially because I would have defended you in a real game. You were actually a strong town read from me, although your nonchalance with your theories about the nks would have made me doubt it slightly. People having fun in a mafia game just doesn't make sense to me, lol. I would never say "Lynch me before him" as scum though unless I was trying to soft cop or something like. I would be careful about being weak to buddying, though, iirc you town read me and my play was pretty scummy 'maybe. I guess sometimes you look scummiest to yourself)

Newbie, your hesitancy was scary. I feel like people like you need hardheaded townies to rush in and do the dirty work. It means you can get good analysis, but I've found people like you need other people or you just comment forever. You seem very rational and I've found rational gets you wrecked in mafia because people aren't rational or logical. I'm not sure on this though, and I'm currently discussing this in depth with another player, so take this with a grain of salt. Other than that, your play was good, it is always good to have someone with clean hands who isn't emotionally attached to everyone, but be careful because it gets you killed for feeling unattached sometimes and sometimes you get it wrong and people trust you and you lose the game and that hurts (or it hurts me at least when I did it)

Ness you had a good start, I would totally have kept up participation, though, I was so ready to defend you. When you played, you looked town, IMO.