Newbie 1674: Fireworks! -- Game Over

[aphix]

1) Define experience? I mean, I've played a few games here.
2) Really prefer a town power role. Outside of that, prefer scum and then vt. Because power is power and knowledge is power.
3) Are you town?

VOTE: FA for not letting me win that last game.

[aphix]

I'm sorry, but you expect someone completely new to the site to understand the meta of reviewing other people's past games? If you are town, that sounds like experience bias. If not, it's an easy way to string up an innocent person.

Huh ... There was implication FA didn't answer the questions, she provided the information where the answers are at ... And that become experience bias? Could you perhaps define that for me and explain where you are going with that?

[aphix]

Smithereens replaces Goliath5, who failed to confirm.

Please welcome her!

Blatant disregard to an explicit mod instruction in this game. A mass mod-kill is in order me thinks.

We've already learned that everyone just disregards what insanity has to say.

Ika, why is smithereens answer more troll then some of the other answers you have gotten?

[aphix]

I find both these posts above me acceptable.

[aphix]

Imo, it's not a great way of eliciting responses, of course scum are not going to answer in a way that draws bad attention.

So troll answers are a town tell?

[aphix]

Or are they null tells? That questionnaire seems useless to me.

If you are taking about my question I don't think you read what I quoted. She specifically says scum wouldn't say anything that would draw bad attention. Being a troll almost always draws bad attention. So it's a way to call herself(pronoun idk) and link herself with others who didn't make an in town response. So obviously the "I'm town" responses come from scum? But it's a poor idea because scum can and we'll draw attention to themselves. And practically it makes no sense because the numbers certainly don't add up to support it in this game either.

So my question still stands as valid as I'm not asking if it's a generic town or scum tell but what it means from her view point which provides information on that player specifically. Has very little to do with the initial trol or not to troll responses.

[aphix]

Because you are the IC. You've been playing mafia for about 3 years, and I've been playing for about 4, so we are both perfectly aware of what the other player is doing. The problem is that I see you're asking a question that scum know how to answer in a townie way, and the scum response you'd expect to get will only come from a townie. It's not that there's a mere risk of mislynch by asking it, it's that if you find suspicion on anybody normally, you're going to find it on townies alone.

But then some scum also well know what that someone expects only town to provide trollish responses and then goes a head and provides trollish answers for town cred?

I find it strange that you are using this to call yourself town, but what really seems strange is that you have decided he is going to go ahead and ruin all the newbies in the game because they are going to just ... idolize him because of the IC?

[aphix]

3) I am the cult recruiter in this game. I'm not sure if you're expecting scum to answer this question differently to town, but that's the only reason I could see in you asking this. If that's the case, we're likely looking at more than a few mislynches before we get the game moving. Just imo.

You claim that you are a cult recruiter. Which is obviously false as everyone knows it's not in the game. That in an among itself is a troll answer I'm pretty sure. And obviously it's an answer that brings bad attention, because guess what, it has ... Which you say bringing bad attention well only come as town.

You say scum won't answer this any differently then town, but there is clearly some town players that just answered, "I'm town" or something similar, and some town that answered in some sort of trollish manner. If you realize, the ping ika is stating isn't from what you answered but how you answered it. I think if you left it as, "I am the cult recruiter in this game." It'd be just a null response. I'm sure everyone could agree on that.

You also never answered if the trollish answers are a town tell. I really want your clear response on this.

[aphix]

But didn't you just say that scum wouldn't do them. If scum just flat out won't do something, that indicates to me that you think people that would do it are scum, seems pretty clear cut, now that I ask why you are calling yourself town in a very round about disingenious way, you decide to start saying no, it's a null tell.

Again, it's NOT about the troll answer. Hell, someone just said they were scum. Do you see ika questioning that person? No, because it's a troll answer. It could easily come from either side. Strictly just a troll answer. Where you decided to go ahead and get really descriptive and go after ika for his RVS questions, which did exactly what it was supposed to do, generate discussion and content. You are the only person that seems concerned about the fact that he tried generating content.

Hell, you can really come down to say just about every action in and by itself tends to be null due to wifom. Except in small variations regarding how it's done. But I'm content with what I've seen here, as I agree almost all your attempts here is a big misdirection of everything that's brought up.

VOTE: smithereens

[aphix]

Wow. So I think I've made it clear that the answers to ika's last question are pretty much just going to be null, and it has very little to do with what you answered. But how you answered it. My scum read on smithereens isn't even have to do with her answering that question.

It has to do with first, she says that answering in a way that brings bad attention is something scum well not do. That means she doesn't believe it to be a null tell. Which means the question has merit. It means that someone answering, "I'm town." Become null but someone answering, "You caught me, I'm scum," or "I'm a cult recruiter," is some how a null tell. Not my opinion but based on what smithereen said. How can she say it's a pointless question when there is clearly a town specific response? Then I call her out on it, and her response is to deflect, and accuse me of scum reading her and being stupid over her initial response, trying to blatantly disregard the fact that she is contradicting herself now.

It'd be one thing if she was like, yeah your right. I messed up, but instead turns it into an attack on my intelligence by misrepping my argument? No, that's scummy.

[aphix]

Just read Aphix's last post and you'll understand what I mean.

Do you care to explain to anyone what I got wrong? Perhaps try letting us know whats going on? Or do you not have anything actually to say other then, "Please Ika, please find something wrong here, because I messed up and don't know how to fix it."

[aphix]

scum are not going to answer in a way that draws bad attention.

So, there is clearly in your mind a set way scum will NOT answer this.

you're asking a question that scum know how to answer in a townie way, and the scum response you'd expect to get will only come from a townie.

Ooh, and the scum response he is expecting ONLY COMES from a townie ... Further reinforcing scum won't say what Ika thinks they will say.

The point as I mentioned is that he will discover in post game that every read he makes based upon answer to his question are utterly independent of affiliation -if not opposite to his supposed affiliation.

Now all the sudden the answers are independent of alignment, let me refer you to the last two quotes where she clearly states scum won't say certain things and certain things well ONLY come from town.

There is no set 'scum' method of answering it. You could argue a scum would feel insecure and hence give a normal answer, or else feel insecure and give an abnormal answer. It legit doesn't mean anything at all.

Now she says scum my give normal or abnormal answers. .. I guess the bad attention thing she talked about earlier wasn't important?

I care not what you think of trollish answers. They are null tells objectively.

From the start them being null tells is completely my stand point. I was pointing out that you thought differently. And you decided to change your mind.

What Ika did was dangerous for town because it generates scum reads on null behaviours. If not null then town behaviours.

No, it's generating scum reads on potential town behaviours ... So she goes from them being town tells. To null tells only and settles on it being a null to town "behavior"

[aphix]

And I'm stupid for calling her out not only on her bull statements that scum well only answer certain ways and certain answers well only come from town ... then she goes ahead and contradicts herself and agrees with me that they are null tells ... and turns that into an attack on me?

[aphix]

Seriously. I'm NOT AT ALL ARGUING HOW SCUM WOULD ANSWER "ARE YOU TOWN." THE FACT YOU KEEP GOING BACK TO THAT IS BULL SHIT. You stated scum wouldn't answer in a certain way and certain answers would ONLY come from town all in the same breath of telling Ika his question was bad. Are you now denying that?

[aphix]

I'm talking about you attacking Ika for a bad question while also stating it has specific answers that well only come from town. Which is wrong alone, but then when I asked you about it you backtrack and attack me. And then continue saying that my read of you is because of your wifom answer is just blatant bull. So not only are you completely ignoring my whole point, you've already contradicted yourself twice, and are attacking people for preposterous, made up reasons. But yes, keep telling me not to read into it. Because that's a real town response to someone scum reading you ... "No your wrong, don't worry about it. I'm not scum." Yeah. Thanks. Get lynched.

[aphix]

Alita, town are much less likely to continue to ignore the fact that they change their story.

Also, does anyone else see me blatantly showing how smithereen has changed her viewpoint on this subject and then continue to say my scum read on her is based on, first, answers to a question, which I'm not talking about at all. And then now her telling me to ignore it. Which by the way, is not a great response to someone scum reading you.

Again, it's the fact that her view point has continued to change, and she has continued to deflect on the subject instead of owning up to it. That's not a town response.

Ika knows this, everyone knows this, you're on your own in not knowing this. Alternatively it can be read as a pretty shitty attempt at driving for pressure against a townie as scum

And this is what I'm refering to. I ask her about her stance. She changes her stance. I call her out on changing this stance and not owning up to it. She calls me scum for it. I guess maybe she forgot that already. Especially sense she's continued to leave her vote in RVS ... despite she thinks Ika is setting up mislynches, and calling me scum ... She'd rather we just all ignore it. We should just hang out and do nothing because no one else is posting I guess? She's content with the game just stalling out.

People aren't posting because it's a newbie game and they'll probably be replaced. But if they do come back, I'd rather something for them to read so they have a reason to join into the game. Or in the least their is something for their replacements, but no, we could also have nothing happening I guess and wait for them to further ignore the game because nothing is happening or start the game again when we get replacements and just have less time for discussion. Because that's definitely in towns favor there.

[aphix]

And in regards to scum motivation in her post, one, she's blatantly trying to stifle game discussion. I call her out on her bullshit and instead of just owning up to it and admitting she messed up, she tests the waters and calls me scum over it but doesn't push the issue. Doesn't vote. In fact she shows she's trying to get someone else involved as she's like, "ika, don't you see what I see." but because she doesn't actually see anything in my posts she's hoping someone else comes up with the information that leads to my lynch. Then she's not responsible for it.

[aphix]

Why can't you address how you went from, "only town well answer certain ways" to contradicting yourself and saying "all answers are null tells"? Or the fact that you say Ika well only catch town with his thought process ... How that provides only null responses. If they are all null tells, then mathmaticaly he'll be more likely to hit town but he wouldn't it only town.

No, because you'd rather go ahead and call me scum attacking town and not actually do anything about it. You can't even address my argument, instead you keep misrepresenting it. Oh that's right, because instead of admiting you were wrong, you felt the best course of action when I asked you about it, is to contradict yourself. How is beneficial at all? Why continue to deflect and try to prevent any conversation? Please tell me where the town motivation is in that?

[aphix]

Nothing. I just wondered if that was all there was to it. As scum, I might've done the same thing to illicit false positives.

You didn't do it though. So why talk about that? An attempt to not really talk about other players?

[aphix]

Nothing. I just wondered if that was all there was to it. As scum, I might've done the same thing to illicit false positives.

You didn't do it though. So why talk about that? An attempt to not really talk about other players?

What are you even trying to say right here? "You didn't do it though?" No, Frozen Angel did. Why are you tunneling so hard on smithereens?! It's suspicious that you're not even considering anyone else

Currently, there is no one else even talking. What little has been said leaves nothing to talk about. It's not at all beneficial to sit back and do nothing however. That provides nothing for no one.

The thing is, FA does something. Smithereens seems to not like it, but the only thing she provides is "I'd do that as scum." That's not helpful if smithereen does that as scum, because smithereen didn't do it. what one person does as scum doesn't imply any time it would be done it's done by scum. It's smithereen talking about something again, without actually taking a stance on it at all.

So you have read all the quotes I have posted of smithereens contradicting herself and you don't see a problem with it andreasgan? You don't think it's weird that in the same breath she says Ika's questions are worthless she states there is a clear town only answer ... so if you can get town tells from an answer how does it be useless. When I asked her about it, because it's clear the basic answers themselves are going to be null, and Ika explains he's looking at more how it's answered then what is answered, smithereen not only decides to change her opinion, that all the answers are null, but also continue to misdirect the discussion saying the answers don't matter when we've moved passed talking about the answers. She's trying to go back, and limit talking about something, instead of talking about it and moving on ... Discussion is what this game is about. Closing down information is ONLY good for scum. But smithereens is doing nothing but avoiding direct answers, skirting subjects, misdirecting, attempting to squash discussion, using bully tactics, delicating throwing scum on people but waiting to see who else bites ... but you know, I guess deceit and lack of discussion is town tells now of days?

[aphix]

I'm just going to reiterate this last point though: Nobody has called you scum Aphix, please stop getting worked up over it. A bit of hush from you would make this thread a nicer place.

VOTE: smiterines

I'm about to head to work so I'll be around tonight

When you get back you should rescind your town read on Aphix and your scum read on me. Wouldn't want to have to convince the IC using hard evidence.

Huh. You dropped the scum hint, then said noone was calling me scum I think this supports the fact.

Also, please no need to convince the IC, but perhaps the kids at home wouldn't mind you explaining your hard evidence?! Or again are we going back to the plan of sitting back and just pointing fingers and hope someone comes up with a reason to agree with you?

[aphix]

Alita, I quoted where she said she could see me being scum attacking town. It's there in the thread. You can read it. It's pretty clear she wants to pretend that didnt happen. Like her saying town would only respond certain ways. Because I guess that didn't happen either.

[aphix]

Alternatively it can be read as a pretty shitty attempt at driving for pressure against a townie as scum.

What is this, except for trying to hint that my play is scummy. Include that in you trying to get Ika to find things wrong with what I have to say, when you won't come out and say them yourself? You are trying to push people to scum read me without out being responsible for it.

All because I'm calling you out on your bull.

Are you trying to tell me you didn't say that only town would answer Ika's answers certain ways?

[aphix]

So did you actually read my posts, and are actually trying to tell me something Smithereens?

[aphix]

So you think I'm completely crazy for thinking it's strange that you say certain answers to ika's question would only come from town, and then spend the next pages just blatantly ignoring what I'm trying to say?

[aphix]

Fresh off the forums for you Smithereens.

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64386

And just in case you want a more recently game instead of looking at ancient games:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1125

[aphix]

Maybe you should read my wiki!
/sarcasm

I already like this kid! I also think FA is playing VI again ... please don't do that. There is way to much wifom in what he did there. And most of all I don't foresee this discussion going in a great direction at all.

OH and this is a recent game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=64304

[aphix]

For fucks sake everyone stop talking about power roles now?!

[aphix]

Sorry for leaving you hanging there so long smithereens. I had to leave work and head home, but at least we have something else to talk about here.

UNVOTE:

So I definitely feel Zephyr is here to play the game ... That move certainly doesn't just come from willfully ignorant newb, and doesn't really just look like trolling either.

[aphix]

Hence the "now" that ends that sentence .... Versus, "this game" or "these last few pages"

[aphix]

I was really hoping something would happen while I was gone today.

But I guess not.

VOTE: Zephyr

Maybe we can discuss that?

[aphix]

The confrontational thing is what's bothering me. I mean at it's heart I fully understand it's not alignment indicative, although her behavior is certainly anti town.

In 24, she jumps to defense of turiko it looks like, despite nothing really to defend again. Still curious what she means by experience bias, because I feel like I understand how I would use that term but I don't feel like that's how it'd be used. 145 is all sorts of horrible. I feel some disdain and sarcasm, and based on all her posts they all feel planned out. The VT claim, is messy. I could see all sorts of reasons for it but honestly it's chop full of wifom it doesn't feel town motivated, and it's a big red flag for me.

She's poking a few different people. What I really like is 153 which leads into the vote. Which is the closest reason for the l-1 vote. The un announced l-1 I'll chock up to newish, but she has games on this site she said? So maybe not. The PR discussion feels weird to me. I feel when people are talking hypothetical from a view point of not having any information they cover all the hypothetical instead of just one.

The lack of unvote when bringing up L-1 when obviously present is another thing that bothers me. I mean, still very early in D1. Even with a scum slip I'm not sure if I'd want to just end discussion on D1 and flash lynch someone. Let alone many players never posting. Then she asks smith for a reason to vote someone else ... Which I don't know feels weird. Then votes FA, and now has no problems explaining the why's of the vote.

[aphix]

Damnit Smithereens ... You give me this to work with ......

Sorry for being quiet, but it's my birthday weekend. Just got back into town. Not much as changed other then Olha slot is still unfortunately town.

We got what seven days or less left? Can we please actually put pressure on someone. The reaction of the Smith slot under pressure of nearly being lynched should be enough to move on at this point.

[aphix]

Huh ...


PEDIT for PC post: ... huh.


Smith continued her play. I didn't see a change or a struggle to that vote. There also wasn't a defeatist attitude. A town player is much less concerned about getting lynched then scum is.

Also, seven days is not a lot of time. We have replacement. We are most likely going to have more before the day is out. Seven days goes by very quickly especially if we are screwing around. And I'm not confortable with the smith/aloha lynch being the only one on the table.

[aphix]

PC: Which scumtell are you talking about? Also, you can disagree all you like, but scum getting lynch day one is much more likely to lead to a town win then a town being lynched day one leading to a town loss. I very much feel smith's response to pressure looks like it much more likely came from a town point of view. There is lots of other things that point at town, and however much I don't like it all of olha posts look town. Period.

And there is Zephyr who pops in and drops criticism in on olha for what couldn't possibly be considered alignment indicative .... and two posts defending herself of not lurking. Four posts, not one of which really provides game content, at all. A scan of her ISO leads to lots of the same stuff. She claims she's not lurking but looks very much like active lurking to me, which in my experience is more likely to come from scum then town. I mean, at most she votes smithereen slot because she feels she has something to hide ... Then throws out some potential scum buddies, no explanation of what makes them scum buddies. Most of the posts are sarcastic mess. Lack game content. Involve PR fishing. Just needs to be lynched.

[aphix]

*bangs head into desk*

Yeah. And you all probably won't actually lynch that there ... I'm going to bed.

[aphix]

Please. Just read that exchange. You can see for yourself where I lay out why Shock is scum. And all the sudden his WHOLE tone changes from sarcastic troll to trying to work with me for some reason. Asking me questions on Smith/Olha slot when I've been very clear on my opinion there.

OMGUS? Someone blindly puts someone at l-1 one and then refuses to unvote because lol, day 1 hammer. Someone voting that isn't omgusing. They are voting blatant horrible scummy behavior.

[aphix]

Huh, well I find that extension request very early and therefor quite suspect.

[aphix]

First, if it's just 'odd' why even comment on it, Zephyr? I do believe it's suspicious because there is no reason to request an extension at this time, it's way too early to look at that. Therefor it looks like someone trying to be helpful, when they aren't actually being helpful. Early deadline extensions just provide an ability for more people to put the day off.

Secondly, PC, how about you start using the time we have currently instead of only asking for more time? When even the people that' aren't being replaced aren't partaking in the game, why would a mod even bother with providing an extension that is ALSO not going to get used? So they can provide more replacements?

[aphix]

I mean, PC isn't voting. Doesn't seem to be attempting to move the day ahead at all, but wants an extension?! That's suspicious. The fact that you want to question it yourself but then seem to be all, nah it's pretty null ... Now THAT seems odd.

[aphix]

Really. The self vote ... Good way to show town motivation in your actions there Zephyr.

[aphix]

Am I the only one that finds it weird prior to his self vote, he is voting Olha ... But then says when he flips town lynch myself and then olha in that order ... then later on puts olha at the front of his list, me at the end and FA in the middle ... I love the whole, whoever is attacking me is scummier motivation here it seems here ...

Again, the fact that I placed a case on you and all the sudden the whole post of your tone changed, like you were trying to discuss something, but when that didn't immediately provide response you decide to become trolly and vote yourself?

You aren't conftowning yourself. If you flip town how do you think this awful play in any way makes your reads any better? If anything you flip town you are restricting town from information that'll be useful later on in the game ... For fucks sake, regardless of your alignment you should drop your sarcastic, better then thou attitude and actually play the game, if you are town, you should especially do it as there is no benefit to anyone except scum for how you are playing.

PC: Did I call you scum? Am I pushing for your lynch? No. Do I think it's super hypocritical for someone to sit back and not participate in the game, adding in one more person that's inactive, and then pop in and ask for more time? Yes. It's awful. As I explained, if we need more time we can worry about that later, it's WAY early. An extension at this time pretty much leads to much more inactivity, because "We have more time. Yay!" And you act like I'm asking to end the day now. Which I'm not. Although with this self vote further rushing a potential lynch I really could care less at this point in time. I see no reason town would self vote at this poin.

[aphix]

Or honestly ever. it's never good for town to self vote. Period.

But, we have 6 out of nine players posting today. Why aren't you interacting with them PC? Why should you be concerned about how I'm playing the game, supposedly ignoring so many people, but you aren't interacting with anyone?

[aphix]

Really. Anyone actually want to tell me what makes shock town? Because if he's town I bet some of those reads are coming from scum. If like to actually have reasons posted instead of idk why but he's town. That's some weak shit.

Pedit what just happened.

[aphix]

Please provide numbers or resources that support that claim shock.

[aphix]

So, Ika said something pinged him. Gave a fairly generic response. I proceed to question Smithereens and because I jumped on the "bandwagon," you know the one that could have been a very quick lynch ... I'm somehow scum? Is everyone that decides to question someone after someone says something like, "they pinged me" opportunistic scum?

I honestly was much more concerned getting an answer from Ika about his opinion on it before focusing at all on smithereens, and I did that. I think think everything smithereens said was complete bull, but that's not necessarily a scum tell.

PEDIT: For EEs newest post ... Uh ... You know know only two people are certain of someones alignment right? So anyone that is certain someone else is town is scum, so this really isn't the best advice. Now, I fully agree you shouldn't try to lynch someone you think is town, but most the time a no lynch, isn't good. It provides no information to town, and it nearly becomes a night start. Which suck. And in my experience day one no lynches usually kill a newbie game.

[aphix]

The OMGUS attempt is in#410
#420 and #421 shed some more light on the situation.

This doesn't tell anything about how OMGUS is such an end all scum tell.

Maybe I'm just not very knowledgeable about this game ....

[aphix]

I've already made a case one who is scum. It's shock. Her blatant scummy behavior goes well beyond just being a pissy town membery.


Shock, just realized appoligize for the pronoun misplacements. It'll happen. I default to a male pronoun because I'm a chauvinistic prick or something like that. Pronouns are like names. I forget them.

[aphix]

But for now, I'm going to go sleep because I'm dying and I'll let you catch up. As hopefully you stop being incorrect.

[aphix]

Aphix pls calm down. Being reasonable is a good thing and working with people gets you places.

Well, I could have continued answering all of your posts from your couch, but regardless of your attack on me I felt the catch up that point was town. Though I'm not sure where you are going with the hypotheticals. Although in my opinion my best reads of a game still currently come from awful one v ones and aggressive play.

Has anyone actually provided reason why shock is town other then, "looks town." Cause I must of missed that. Because he's off the scale in terms of scum for me.

Who's on the karnage wagon looks fine, I'm not really sure if there is a strong case there at all.

FA, I just got done with a game that led to a scum win because I got too caught up in myself to actually pay attention to the signs. The issue is she's seems really good at playing to emotional card and I struggle to know if it's real or not. It's makes it hard to read.

Ika, I'm also curious about what he's working on as I feel like it's something. I also agree there isn't a ton of content but it's looks correct to me.

PC and hasta are both fairly null slots. I could go back and review the slot but I don't really think there is anything currently there. Which isn't great at this time of the day.

Still not interested in lynching olha. I hope I'm not wrong there, but it is what it is.

[aphix]

For fucks sake. So EE you think my plan was to bow out and lay low knowing that you'd come out to town read me? I definitely expected you to finish up still scum reading me. But your read on me rather scum or town doesn't change my read on you period. Your catch up was town.

That FA mess makes me very concerned. The replace out I can believe is because of to much going on but the rest of it I agree with EE there has been a lot of manipulation out of this slot and it looks similar to the game I just finished with her. Thanks to that I want some pressure on the replacement.

VOTE: FA

Also finally I agree with shock about replacements. My exact thoughts. I'd love to play a newbie with zero replacements.

[aphix]

Oh for fucks sake EE. First you give me a ton of credit for I guess making the gambit that you are going to start town reading me ... You chastise me for not being reasonable, and now scum read me for trying to work with my town reads. You got to be kidding me ... also, perhaps you shouldn't be just so adamant on the rest of what things mean. I mean, I vote with you, that makes me scum, but it's okay for your other scum reads to vote me with you ... even though that also makes them scum ... So basically no matter what a few people do or what happens after those events ... You are just going to stick to you shit awful reads? They don't change regardless of whats going on?

I'm pretty sure this is where EE expects me to vote him so he can go, AHHH OMGUS see he's scum. But thanks for Shock for letting me know omgus is always a scum tell I'll make sure not to do it.

PEDIT: PC made started to make me think I read absinthes post wrong. But she clearly talks about it being an hour before between your first post and your reads ... And you are obviously agreeing with her on the timeline ... I mean, your reaction looks like you read something else but I don't really understand what you might have read in it?

[aphix]

Also ... EE ... you accuse me of pushing lynchbait ... Despite that my biggest push all game has been shock ... You still consider him lynchbait when what half the playerbase have stated he's a town read? That seems to me to no longer be lynch bait ...

But I also still like how every one is fine that he goes quiet when people aren't talking about him. And some how that's also town ...

[aphix]

Shit. Yes she. Right now. She's barely posted anything, and none of it has been of substance. Most of what she has posted has been trolling assshittery as far as game relevance goes. I don't know about anyone else but I can't see anything in her posts that indicate her thoughts on the game. It's a lot of empty questions. That she doesn't follow up on. Insults and fluff. That's it.

[aphix]

Huh ... Well if that doesn't look biased at all EE ... Aphix's reactions could be town, but it's easy to fake, so I think he's scum ... But this other guys reactions could also be faked by scum, but sense it reminds me of my play in the past ... He's town? Really EE?! That's your attempt to convince people?! Because it looks like you'd be fine if people just went after PC there as well. We even mention you don't like his posts if the end results are you are town reading him?

Also, why so many qualifiers in that EE? So many things that indicate that you are unsure of yourself there .... If you are going to fucking take a stance on me being scum just do it already and stop trying to pussy foot around it like you are worried I'm going to flip town and you are concerned how you'll look.

[aphix]

In my opinion if you can read an ISO and not see any real stance ... That's concerning. If all of your opinion on her feelings and stances on a game rely on context ... That could be you adding in your own context or just reading it wrong. And also that supports my case that she hasn't actually posted her feelings in the thread. Because she hasn't. Even her latest flop onto voting FA has been because she'd rather lynch someone that was "scummy" then go with a no lynch. She doesn't provide any reason for why. She's not building any connections or bridges ... It's a very strong place for scum to be.

[aphix]

I'm so glad you defended yourself by the number of posts you have ... Because how many posts you make is OBVIOUSLY what I'm talking about.

Also, I'm really glad everyone's respond to a ever shortening deadline is to be friendly, I mean, if someone lol hammered FAs slot while the replacement was still catching up. That'd at least provide us information. But you unvote so they don't get lynched Shock?! When there is what ... two votes on them? They literally aren't at risk of being lynched so your 'reason' is bullshit.

[aphix]

Exactly. You haven't done shit this game. You've posted a lot of sarcastism. Insults. Been just blatantly purposely obtuse. You've been full of blank votes. No reads. You ask BS questions and never follow up with them or actually come to a conclusion on anything. You just want to shuffle your god damn vote around. You seem pretty intent on making sure there isn't actually a lynch today despite that's the only thing you've been clear on his how you think there should be a lynch. It's all shit. You show less interest in playing the game then the people that have been replaced due to inactivity. The only difference is you are posting. But you are providing as much actually game content as someone who isn't.

I bet this is another situation where you can't possibly be OMGUSing because I didn't have a vote on you at the time huh? Oh, of course it couldnt' be OMGUS cause your a vanilla town and OMGUSing is only done by scum huh?

[aphix]

Hah. It's funny enough when someone else says I'm being oppurtunistic for pushing you as a lynch. It's just downright scummy coming from you. And defensive? Like my case on you is new? Only because you just now decided to vote me? Yeah. I'm being so defensive, in pointing out how scummy you are.

[aphix]

VOTE: shock

I'm done. I doubt anything else in the next three days well be scummier or convince me this is town.

[aphix]

I mean, I state she's not posting content, she defends by saying she's got more posts then anyone, so we should lynch all liars ... If that's not a blatant attempt at misrepresentation I don't know what is. She's provided no reads, she only starts rocking the boat when someone calls her scum, when people aren't pushing she's content to quietly posts bs here and there to look active. Without actually doing anything. She fully admits to not providing any reads. That in no way is town motivated.

[aphix]

Yeah. I'm not sure if I wasn't clear earlier, but I'm pretty sure defensive doesn't mean what you think it means.

[aphix]

But being aggressive and not working with you would have just made me anti town and probably also scum. Similar to how if ika helps you lynch me he'll be scum regardless of how the flip works .... Huh. I can definitely see how that makes mafia just way easier if you just disregard everything.

[aphix]

Well however much I just want to punch EE for some of his posts, he's still probably town.

I hope I'm right about Frozen Angel's alignment. I want to hang on to that read for this game day.

????

[aphix]

But, why do you just want to hang onto that read for today? After today do you want that read to change?

[aphix]

It's a gimme to assume reads develop and change over time ... but your wording indicates you plan on your read changing after today ... That is odd.

[aphix]

Alright. Thanks.

[aphix]

Alright. So that seems to be a no on lynching Shock. Looking at vote count. I'm not lynching myself. I think EE is town and am not a fan of who's on that wagon either. So not lynching that.

I still have yet to see anyone actually provide reasons to why Shock is town. Very little of what EE called town from him seems to even have slight town vibes and just ignores all the other crap ... I just don't understand it, but at least he's tried providing reason.

I feel like the ika bit is mostly based on lurking ... Even his few pop ins haven't provided a lot of content which is concerning but I'd hate to lynch for that over say, much better reasons in the case of Shock.

Which brings us to potentially PC who has a vote on him, certainly been questionable things, and haven't been a big fan of his side of the PC/EE discussions. And that one vote is from pasta who seems to have vanished ....

Yes, I'm realizing we aren't lynching Shock ... Which I still think is FUCKING DUMB. I'm not for lynching EE so we shouldn't do that, and certainly not voting myself. And I'm beyond frustrated as EE won't work with me ... And I beyond attempting that anymore. As everything I do is just scummy for him ....

UNVOTE:

I think I'm going to have to rethink this game. I have a big null and town blocks and that's the wrong place to be at this point of the game. And if everyone else is right about shock that leaves me null slots. What makes ika a better lynch then Pasta? Although I have very much come to the point of being VERY annoyed with lurking ICs, and definitely at the point were I'll considering blacklisting them if they are using it as a valid scum tactic ... because I think that just leads to shitty newbie games, but I guess not the point right now.

PEDIT: Well I thought I posted this a few hours ago, got distracted with work and didn't awesome. I'm so glad hasta could provide some helpful insights.

VOTE: ika

[aphix]

EE, I'm not calling you town to be your friend for fucks sake, it's because I think your town and shouldn't be a lynch candidate. Hell, if I was scum I don't think that's a strong stance to take. I mean, you've been wishy washy on all of your reads. You explain that away with self meta of that's just how I am. You explain away your change of play first as, "I've changed my play." And now stating your play is constantly changing ... and could go back to your original playstyle. You now are explaining your read of FA as a gambit to try and read the slot ... But you were completely fine with derailing any pressure on the replacement ... Because l-2 might result in a flash hammer? When at the time it was on your strongest scum read and your second strongest read was on the hammer ... Did you expect two other scum to hammer?! I'm confused by that.

And I think your being completely unreasonable and honestly you accuse someone of not reading your posts because of a tiny thing like DoS which I bet you most people didn't know what you were talking about. I'm not sure if I've been clear about how little I'm concerned about getting lynched today, so perhaps you can pull your head out and actually pay attention to the game so we can move on.

[aphix]

I don't even understand. One second I feel EE is acting like I'm some sort of mind reading genius and the next minute a bumbling idiot ... But perhaps that just goes along with all of his other back and forth.

[aphix]

And if you think my FA vote was a ton more then pressure for the replacement. Yeah I might have been sheeping you. Guess what, go look at the last game where I played with FA. I also relied on others reading that slow. I haven't figured out how to read FA yet. She one that because the one person I thought could read her was calling her town as a gambit and then died. So that let me avoid several things that could have been scum. Lets see, we won't lynch who I think is scum ... a slot I can't read is being replaced ... seems like a good place to apply pressure so I could perhaps read that slot ...

Which again brings me back to fucking shocks unvote because he also didn't want a "turbo lynch" when FAs slot was at l-3 ... That's even more obviously made up then your unvote at l-2.

[aphix]

I'm pretty confident EE is being stubborn and refusing to vote the same person as me. More then he felt FAs response was town at the time. I just have a feeling shock wanted to hope off the wagon because he knows the slot is town and maybe the replacement is more experienced, why draw attention to himself. Because you know, he's definitely been at the forefront of new ideas and pushing anything ... But no, he can sheep people all day voting the currently moving wagon and provide no reasons and I'm the one going after easy targets ....

[aphix]

You said you'd maybe want to lynch him if he didn't show up.

Did he ever really show up?

[aphix]

Wow. Just answered my own question ... 3 posts ... over five days ... 300 other posts ....

Looking at the slots ISO I think I'd prefer this WAY over an Ika lynch. At least ika is here and kind of making statements about the game, and I think ika has way less red flags then the hasta slot.


PEDIT: Well I'm going to finish this up in another post, but damnit absinthe.

TLDR: I think a lot of turiko looked newb and isn't alignment indicative but his appeasement goes beyond that and I feel like he goes out his way to not take a stance on something. Hasta since replacing has ALSO not taken a stance, and is just blatant lurking. He's just prod dodging. Not alignment indicative itself, but the "I'll BRB" thoughts in his posts without actually being back, is a huge concern. Because most people read that, think oh okay ... And then he slips through due to other discussion.

[spoiler="Thoughts on Hasta]6: So, fine RVS.

11: For whoever chides me for bringing up answers to this "dumb" questionaire, fuck off. They thing that actually bothers me here is actually just answer 2. I feel like there is a huge attempt to not really step on any toes. Even when he talks about if he didn't know he'd rather be town, he even qualifies that with, "if you have decent partners." there isn't any attempt at a straight answer.

18: Nothing stands out.

27: Everything looks fine here, but this stands out strangely to me: "Being silent is a calm strategy, but not the way I'd like to play" The wording is off. It also stands out oddly, and this is a small thing and people will think me weird for pointing it out but no puncation at the end. Everything else in all his posts is punctuated. bot the wording and puncuation makes me think this sentence was edited a few different times, he wasn't finished and didn't come back to wrap it up.

29: Bunch of fluff and I'm not concerned about you and then, "But I can always refer back to this if/when I start to feel there might be multiple suspicions around you."

And then some more fluff and attempt at pleasing me this time that ends in, "My opinion is that you don't want do bias my lack of experience, but that's only a gut feeling right now, which can change if others can convince me." He just stating something similar to FA, and then repeated nearly the same exact paragraph to me ... It's very strange.

67: Back to appeasement to FA. Then some more answering a question with a question.

215: Unvote because he's lost track. Then a statement in the next hours I'll try to answer something, then never comes back. Now I certainly hope nothing happened, or maybe something great happened and he is too busy with a great new job or something, but I feel it's strange, if he was overwhelmed with how fast the game was going and needed to quit, most people would say that, which makes me think that's not the reason for leaving.

418: So at this point, looks like hasta hasn't read the game yet. That's fine. But RVS vote? Hate that on replace ins, but probably null.

483: Still hasn't read the game I am guessing. Comments on replacements while dipping his toe in on role fishing. But since he's not the talk currently, he's content with lurking.

673: I got to say I feel like he's probably skimmed enough to think that I'm the most viable lynch. Notice he doesn't comment on anything. Except again on game state .... "I'll come back to this after a little rest."[/spoiler]

PEDIT 2: Voting me instead of Ika? Because I'm a dick. He's skimmed enough to see I've made waves. That's much more likely to get a lynch D1 then a lurker, and less likely to be questioned after flip. He'll be able to come up with answers that look better and make more sense then, "I voted him for lurking?"

VOTE: Hasta

[aphix]

I don't necessarily see that as strange. New players get confused with snap reads like that. Or when there is "inside" discussion. I think it's the same no matter what you are looking at. Forum games, online games. Work environments. School. I think it's normal for people to feel they have the short end of the stick because they are the new guy, complaining about that isn't out of place.

[aphix]

So, aphix, you think that

hasta

Turiko

, as Mafia, would say that about ika, who was also Mafia?

I don't really care for that question. Honestly there isn't enough information to go off of to answer that question.

[aphix]

Hasta MIA ... Karnage seems to be MIA ... shock seems disapeared and honestly she still hasn't really been here except to fling confident sarcastic shit. ika really isn't providing anything to work with.

*insert exciting comments about newbie games*

[aphix]

Huh. Now I'm shocks number one scum read ... Still no reason for that read from her. In fact, last it looked like she was more focused on Ohla and FA according to her, who to look at when he flips way back in [post]340[\post]. Like seriously ... How the fuck are you guys saying this is town?! This shit goes well beyond anti town play.

[aphix]

My thoughts on what seem to be the top lynch candidates:

Well this also should possibly be a red flag for everyone. According to Shock, she either doesn't actually have thoughts on my slot ... which is strange, me being her number one scum read ... Or she doesn't consider me a top lynch candidate ... Also weird seeing as I'm her number one scum read.

But no, I guess I'll continue just being the paranoid guy in the corner.

[aphix]

Or only pops in when I say something about her. Or despite me being some great scum read most the game according to her iso, waits until two other people I believe vote me before jumping on the wagon ... And now has nothing to say about my slot ... And really read what he has to say about the "lynch candidates"

[aphix]

Or only pops in when I say something about her. Or despite me being some great scum read most the game according to her iso, waits until two other people I believe vote me before jumping on the wagon ... And now has nothing to say about my slot ... And really read what

s

he has to say about the "lynch candidates"

I was doing so good too.

[aphix]

Also please read her iso ... She talks about not wanting to "drone" on about me? She's done no talking about me at all. Other then calling me scum in omgus and then sheep EE on it. Like WTF!?

[aphix]

Aphix, convince me to vote for someone else please?

Really? That's what you have to say about the whole game ... You had what ... Oh that's right, over two days. ... The only thing you've commented on that comes close to game related is you feel "aphix-y".

You vote me because I assume I'm your scum read ... But you want me to convince you to vote someone else? In the last two days you haven't had time to read the last four pages. You know, other then a "skim."

Yeah. I'm confident this goes beyond just lynching a lurking. He "got into the first half" but commented NOTHING on it. Skimmed the second half, still doesn't do anything but jump on a wagon, with a blind vote might I add ... Then asks the person he's voting to fucking convince him to vote someone else? Probably because he isn't reading the thread. You know who has no reason to really read the game. Scum.

[aphix]

Aphix is definitely lynch today scum
PC is unstable DoS
Ika is null
Karnage is unstable null-town
Absinthe is solid town
Dier is solid town
Shock is solid town

So, anyone curious about useful connection depending on a hasta flip ... Notice something missing in EEs read list? Those voting EE might get something out of it as an EE flip doesn't look likely. He does later in [post]687[post] listed as solid town along with three other people.

So, PC and absinthe seem to consider a hasta lynch. Ika, Karnage, Dier: Your opinion on hasta?

[aphix]

Hasta is likely town. Not particularly present, no, but that doesn't make him scum. .

Showing up and not actually doing anything in the game. That's should be a huge red flag. But you got your head so far up your ass on me being scum, you can't see that the other people voting me is a scummy lurker, and a scummier lurker.

[aphix]

Oh well. At this point I don't know how much I'll be on let alone in 14 hours at deadline. I still think you guys are wrong about shock. Hasta is also pretty fucking scummy. I mean, he could come in and comment and join discussion, but that'd require him to read, and actually make up town motivated posts, it's much easier to just sit back and let other people do work.

The fact that PC has just sat back on an ika vote is crap. I'm pretty confident he's been in to see no ones lynching ika.

[aphix]

I completely think there is the votes for pasta. I've already stated I don't think there is a case against Karnage. No one has yet to provide one. Despite the fact that he has been a big wagon today.

But I guess that's what this game has really derailed into. Just just people screaming scum back and forth without actually discussing anything. Hell, I'm at the point now that EEs self righteous bullshit is going well beyond head up ass ignorance and he's purposely ignoring most the game, anyone else actually know if he just death tunnels day one?

[aphix]

Well, I don't think that helps much unless you want to take away that as town EE likes reading people for bad reasons ... But hopefully there was more to it then that.

In regards to Pasta, there is absinthe, karnage, PC that don't look to be opposed to a pasta lynch. That's four.

[aphix]

Well, this last strange scramble EE with his obviously faked emotional vote on Karnage really kind of weakens my town read there.

What makes ika a better lynch then hasta. Ika really has displayed apathy to the game. Hasta seems way different. And I still stand by several scummy things him and his predecessor have done. And I'll not even fail to bring up that as soon as he got wagoned, he went in and inned for another game. Before bothering and posting in here. And instead of actually dealing with the pressure and maybe actually play the game he's much safer not posting. Ika at least has a history of not being helpful.

[aphix]

Well, if it wasn't emotional, wouldn't you start your arguement there, instead of on the fake bit? but the fact is, you missed capital and punctuation something I don't see often in your posts. Added in exclamation point to really make a point!!! And threw down a vote to really make the point, when obviously you weren't intent on even trying to convince anyone. Which seems strange considering karnage has been a major wagon today, you might have the votes ....

And in all the same posts that you are talking on compromising on a hasta lynch, your lead scumspect being the lead wagon ... You talk about hasta being a 'decent vote' if karnage flips scum ... Not to mention it seems like you are thinking a lot about who is getting shot ... Which seems to be a weird mindset ...

Now you want to try and convince me on a ika lynch, when I have been pretty clear I think hasta is a better lynch?

[aphix]

Yeap. Like everything else, EE lets confirmation bias totally run his game. Either he's being a moron or he's scum, I'm not really sure which. EE, how your previous game played out has very little bearing on this one.


VOTE: PC

Pretty confident on this one ... Ooh, bet that throws EEs plans out the window.

[aphix]

Also, really love how EE skips over dier question about how the kill confirms his read on me ... My guess is he can't, because it doesn't.

[aphix]

If I live until tomorrow aphix I'll address your doubts then.

Oh yeah. There is still this.

Which I still think is weird being posted immediately after.

K no idea what you're talking about aphix.

[aphix]

VOTE: Aphix

I'm glad you are still sheeping EE with a naked vote and continuing not to participate in the game. Was there even a reason you signed up to play?

[aphix]

If you are both town, you might not being dumb and letting scum quickhammer on day two ... I don't think you are going to win a 3/2 game between the two of you. I have to head out to work. It'd really be shitty to lose the game this early.

[aphix]

UNVOTE:

Because we are close enough for stupid stuff to happen. EE, you really need to unvote. I am guessing ika and PC aren't actually scum together but I also don't have faith the scum team isn't planning to get on at the same time and hammer. Don't be stupid here.

[aphix]

UNVOTE:

Because we are close enough for stupid stuff to happen. EE, you really need to unvote. I am guessing ika and PC aren't actually scum together but I also don't have faith the scum team isn't planning to get on at the same time and hammer. Don't be stupid here.

[aphix]

At this point in time I'm not sure. I'm pretty much paranoyed of everyone because my one for sure town read is dead. Pretty much all my theories don't stand up to any actual critic thought right now. It's possibly one of EE or Shock is scum, or the other two scum are waiting for their buddy to be on. I don't know. But as more and more time goes on, and EE is being either willfully ignorant by allowing his previous game to completely control this one by ignoring the facts or he's scum, I definitely don't like when someone says they'll address soemthing later and continues not to address it though. I don't know how naive he actually is though. So it could go either way. The fact that he supposedly had a strong town read on hasta but still flopped at the last minute, still looks awful to me.

Shock still has yet to provide anything useful. So I'll actually be glad if he's actually replacing out if he's not going to play the game.

Dier: You also flopped on Pasta, but then I'm not sure what your previous read of him was.

Ika: Is still not helpful. Nothing new, and I can believe his meta could indicate it's not alignment indicative.

PC: Has a lot of questionable stuff that I've mentioned before, that I think is scummy but I'm really not sure at this point.

Not it's not lylo, but it very quickly becomes it. I'm not really super excited about this towns chances of winning going into lylo with two people who haven't posted anything game relevant. So I think a quick lynch today could easily lose the game.

[aphix]

Well what's bad about that, is both myself and Karnage EE had as preferable lynches over pasta, which I assume indicates he thinks we are more likely to be scum, so not only did he compromise on his town read, he did it with he two biggest suspects. I feel he provided only the weakest attempts to look at karnage instead of pasta, aside from what I still think looks to be an attempt and a rage vote on karnage. Which I've already gone over in detail.

Not to mention all his arguements on me are, "aphix is scum." "aphix is definite scum." "Help me lynch aphix because I was right about another guy once in this other game." ... And he thinks that's a good argument for everyone to sheep him ...

[aphix]

But I guess some of it in terms of the flip flop vote for you and EE is perhaps because I would have probably preferred a no lynch then lynching someone I knew was town ... Worst case scenario it just gives us a mylo, and we could take another no lynch to further narrow the pool, not preferable but ... Meh. I don't know. I don't really play mafia for in depth strategy.

[aphix]

If he was as confident as it seems by him saying its a "strong town" read. No I don't think he should have compromised that especially with his strongest scum reads on the wagon. Especially when nothing about the exchange even makes him think about questioning his reads.

[aphix]

I do regret compromising and I one hundred percent would not have done so if I hadn't felt like something out of the black plague.

Well at least we agree with something this game.

[aphix]

y is it relevant that you both regret compromising on a town mislynch? of course you regret it, hasta was town.

I'd have to have been compromising in order to regret it. Was it my prefered lynch? No. It also wasn't a strong town read of mine. Does it suck he flipped town. Sure. My biggest point, I think it's actually more in scums benefit to avoid a no lynch in this case.

[aphix]

I'm agreeing with him that it was an awful move.


And yes, I think avoiding the no lynch in this situation is in scum's benefit. Which questions my read of not just EE but Dier as well.

[aphix]

Huh, so EE slips into his, I'm going to type poorly when he's "mad" again, but I'm done holding his breath waiting for him to explain any of it.

In regards to scourge's voicing this melt down as town. He did the same mini melt down trying to see if there was anyone that would sheep him on karnage, without really putting thought into it. Now he's doing the same to "prove" he's town. It looks fake, just like the first time.

PEDIT, Scourge explaining ways that EE is scummy while defending him just looks suspect as well. I'll be really sad if these two have been scum all along. But might explain at least someones BS reads on shock.

[aphix]

how am i defending birdman?

Well, you town read EE, then you go a head and talk about how hypothetically scum EE would do the same things he does and he should understand how that looks, which indicates you think he's town. Then you go ahead and say, no I agree a no lynch would be bad for us. When talking specifically to EE ... You are right. I don't know how I assumed you thought EE was town ... Go figure ... I guess you were just talking about how you and EE were scum together?

VOTE: Scourge

I'm not really sure if EE and scourge are scum together, but I think this is much more likely scum.

[aphix]

Actually my case on you is based on the fact that your slot has been scummy all game. You've managed to make it worse in my opinion. It's also based on the idea that I don't think both you and EE are scum, I don't see the scum team both pushing my lynch today. It'd be stupid. I think EE is the much more likely one. Also you at no point in time made it clear you thought EE was scum, so stating that now and voting when I'm guessing you think there is support there ... Which if Karnage's vote is considering real ... You now put him at l-1 before going to bed .... A day into day two .... After we just lost a cop .... Are you that interested in ending the day?

[aphix]

Probably because I don't negotiate with terrorists.

[aphix]

Wow... Well, hasta and his slot was not contributing. It wasn't until I looked at his slots iso, and pushed the wagon on him that I thought he was scum. Your slot is who I was definitely scum reading all day, and was my prefered lynch. I also not once have I said that hasta was a bad lynch. I'll stand by the lynch whole heartedly. What I said was I think scum would want to avoid the no lynch. I do think if say, the choice was between a no lynch and lynching say, absinthe or even EE yesterday ... I would have went with the no lynch. I wouldn't have compromised.

[aphix]

Now I'm home and I'll take a moment before heading to bed to talk about how wrong you are, and probably just going out of your way to misrepresent.

y is it relevant that you both regret compromising on a town mislynch? of course you regret it, hasta was town.

I'd have to have been compromising in order to regret it.

Was it my prefered lynch? No. It also wasn't a strong town read of mine.

Does it suck he flipped town. Sure. My biggest point, I think it's actually more in scums benefit to avoid a no lynch in this case.

this wording doesn't look like a player you thought was scum. it looks more like backtracking!

It doesn't look like backtracking. It wasn't my preferred lynch for the day. You can read the game and know that. The second part you bolded, was me referencing EEs flip. I'm saying it wasn't a strong town read of mine, like it was EEs.

I'm agreeing with him that it was an awful move.

And yes, I think avoiding the no lynch in this situation is in scum's benefit. Which questions my read of not just EE but Dier as well.

here's you saying it was a bad lynch after the fact!

No actually, it's me saying that from what EE is providing of his perspective, it's was a bad move. Doesn't make it a bad lynch.

but y'know, aphix, i keep thinking you're a newbie when you say that a no lynch is better than a lynch on someone you townread! it almost never is. like, completely out of the game we're playing for one second, a no lynch is bad for town in most cases. i'll say it in post-game too!

but see, the weird thing is.. you weren't townreading hasta. if you were, i would buy you thinking that birdman shouldn't have compromised. but you weren't townreading him, you thought he was scum! that's why i think it's strange that you're trying to spin the narrative that birdman shouldn't have compromised, when a town you who thought hasta was scum should have been happy with the lynch.

basically you're piggybacking off this lynch on a townie, just like birdman is, only you're doing it in a different way.

this would be easier if i could talk to birdman directly rn. if you are on a team and it looks this good because of scum daychat, i'm impressed.

VOTE: aphix

im gonna keep flipping on these two, i just know it.

[/quote][/quote]

My opinion of hasta doesn't have anything to do with what I think of EEs reactions. I can disagree with someone and still think they are town, I could completely agree with the points someone is making and think they are scum. I don't think you understand disconnecting from your thought process and looking at something from someone else's perspective.

You'd be right about me piggybacking off the lynch if I was trying to push an EE lynch. But the fact that you vote EE. I make a statement that because of your actions I think EE is more town and you fabricate reasons to vote me? Yeah. That only further supports the fact that you are trying to go for an easy lynch. It doesn't look like you are trying to figure anything out. You just want to lynch someone.

The fact that you act like hasta was my number 1 scum read of the whole day. I can tell point to you when I thought hasta could be scum. It's right in between 725 and 730. 495 you can see I have hasta at null. And there isn't much else until after 730 ... Did you read the last part of the day and act like it's the whole day? Or is it just normal for you to lie when it supports your purpose?

[aphix]

If you want to put it in comparison, what EE did I'd put at the same level as if I compromised and lynched absinthe slot yesterday because we "needed a lynch." I wouldn't have done it. Yes, I compromised on a lynch, but I didn't try helping my scum reads lynch town reads. I found someone I thought was scummy and pushed a lynch. I don't think a lynch would have happened other wise. So if your in the stance that a lynch was required for town, you probably should be thanking me.

[aphix]

EE: At this point, lets be honest. If you think I'm scum, why wouldn't I have went along with your lynch yesterday? Why would I fight that lynch? To keep you around until LyLo when I have my pick of lurkers to take? Ooh, perhaps you can agree with Scourge that I kept you around so I can make this point? So I can let you and your lurking sheep continue to try and push a lynch on me? Lets talk some more about how your "suboptimal" scum play makes you town EE.

[aphix]

Also I'm glad you are at least willing to aknowledge there are times that a no lunch isn't the best option.

[aphix]

Also I'm glad you are at least willing to aknowledge there are times that a no lunch isn't the best option.

Sorry. When a lynch isn't the best option.

[aphix]

Sorry for being gone so long. Between work and jiu jitsu I haven't been up for much.

Eagle ... You're making this difficult ... Although I do agree with you on what you quoted. Honestly me it's a sort of slight push, like I'll support a lynch on dier or karnage ... but not yet. Which makes me think whoever he's trying to talk with there obviously isn't a scum buddy.

Scourge: Perhaps it's a playstyle, but I feel like he's trying to work with everyone here. Like ... too friendly. All of his posts feel like he's trying to build himself into the core of a town block, and aside from his predecessor I think that's one of the biggest things bothering me.

Karnage, I can actually agree with the opinion on Eagle, I also agree with dier opinion on it. It's a strange push.

Political: Bad timing to go do things, but RL happens. I still don't like the slot and is second on my list of scum.

Ika: You playing the game?

Sigh.......

What's this about? It's getting exhausting having you not play ... Isn't this pretty much the opposite of what an IC is supposed to do? Do you have thoughts on the game?

[aphix]

Your my top scum read was because shock was scummy. The rest just does't make me change my read of the slot. If you are town, you can't work with everyone. You should know this. The friendly bit always is odd, that by itself isn't anything, if it seemed like you were working people to figure out the game but currently it looks like your working on just town reading everyone. Which obviously doesn't work.

[aphix]

What's this about? It's getting exhausting having you not play ... Isn't this pretty much the opposite of what an IC is supposed to do? Do you have thoughts on the game?

Its about nobody trying to make a town bloc or a set town core....

I mean i dont reallyhave any thought onthe game other then i still way to lynch EE who has not done anythign to make me think hes town

I just got home so let me settle and i might be able to figure stuff

I'm going to be honest. If this doesn't happen. You need to be lynched. The fact is you keep promising over and over again, and haven't delivered, and I find it hard to believe you started out the game upset that no one is forming a town bloc and playing the way you want to play, and honestly I had one IC who admitted post game to lurking, because it was a legitimate tactic, and I'm starting to get that feel here, it may not be alignment indicative, but it just honestly shouldn't happen. Here is where I'd insert some inspirational shit to hopefully rally you to come back and play, but I'm not that sort of person. So hopefully I don't end up calling you a bag of *insert body parts here* because of your play later.

[aphix]

I'm done waiting.


VOTE: ika

[aphix]

It's the fact he continues to promise something. He's going to post soon. He's going to be back in a bit. He just got home, he'll have something soon. He'll reread absinthe to see who they suspected. None of these things have happened. It's just a bunch of empty promises.

[aphix]

Ika, your iso is full of, I'll have time tonight ... I'm going to do this later. "I might" guess what that just indicates to me that, one you don't care about the game at all, going along with the rest of your reads. And two, you are catching on people are getting tired of your shit and need to start couching your statements. The rest of your iso is questions that you don't seem to follow up with and blind reads. It's not helpful for anyone in an attempt to read you if you are town, and the fact that you've sat in the background this whole time and are content with it is a great place to be as scum. At least two people are concerned about lynching you because they have no content. So maybe your being flaky worthless town weight, but honestly the policy lynch to me might be completely worth it regardless of anything else.

Spoiler: Not game relevant

Sure it might be a legit scum tactic, but at no point in time should the IC be lurking through a game. As any alignment. If this is how you think an IC is to be played I'm of the opinion you shouldn't be an IC. From the wiki, we have ICs purpose "to represent the site and its meta." From the newbie queue, "If you don't want to be required to explain how the game works to the Newer players, you should sign up to be an SE." You certainly can't explain the game when you aren't posting in it. I don't think the site promotes lurking, nor is that the meta. Oh yeah, specifically from "being a good IC" which your an IC so you have followed the rules and read it ... "Don't lurk:" It's a main topic to being a IC. So how about you play the game already.

[aphix]

No, my attack on you and being an IC I spoilered. The rest? You not posting. You saying you are going to do something and not. You being content to just skate by the day. You accusing everyone else of being in their own world and not providing YOU with reasons that EE is town? Are you providing reasons he's scum? Not really. Are you providing anyone else reasons someone else is town? No. You are upset noone is working together. WHERE have you attempted to actually work with someone? Where have YOU tried to form a town bloc?

You are accusing everyone else, while doing NOTHING to try and fix it. You are accusing everyone of not providing reasons while not providing any yourself ... How is that have anything to do with your IC slot? It doesn't. I'm certainly clear some of it is a policy lynch as I'm tired of ICs lurking. It shouldn't happen, but honestly I think you need to actually play the game, instead of this whoa is me, noones playing how I want them to play so I'm not going to participate.

Also, because no one is providing reasons as to why EE is town ... You have nothing to add ... Are there not ... I don't know. OTHER FUCKING PLAYERS in the game?

There is a reason I placed the rest of the stuff in spoilers. As that's not really game relevant. But I'm already at the point I'm going to make sure not to play a game with you, especially in newbies, especially if this is how you IC. Because it's not good for them. I mean, I'm not nice, main reason why I don't IC. If you can't avoid lurking maybe you shouldn't IC either.

[aphix]

Are you providing reasons he's(EE) scum?

Are you providing anyone else reasons someone else is town?

I don't know. OTHER FUCKING PLAYERS in the game?

Sweet. Are you going to be upset that I think you aren't pulling IC duties, that you are going to just completely ignore any attempt to actually interact with me? You say EE is scum, I don't feel you've provide any reasons, but that's somehow on the rest of the game? You say no one has provided reasons for why EE is town. Where is your reasons for anyone else being town? Are you so focused on EE that you have no other reads at all in the whole game? Is he the only person you can focus on? How about Scourge? Dierfire? Karnage? PC? No opinions there at all?

[aphix]

Fuck me if I still don't think scourge is just all sorts of scum. I mean. What happened to the whole eagles play only makes sense if he's scum scourge?
He goes from your main target to tied for third lynch over PC and Ika ...

I mean, you make a snide comment about eagle prefering a PC lynch over Ika, and then go ahead and put PC and Ika as your top two lynch preferences?!

And then right back to the helpful town leader play ... Hell, I probably wouldn't even think anything of you commenting on the l-1 bit if it wasn't just a complete obvious last minute addition after you hit submit. It just looks like, "Ooh you know what would make me look more town!" The, "I shouldn't have to say this but I will," bit is what really kills me though.

I'm pretty sure if Eagle was scum there would be a play to at least push Ika here. And I feel the same way about karnage, and honestly might be even more true for karnage being a key wagon already, there is pressure to avoid that. Not necessary as taking a stance against a policy lynch is a fine play here either way but I think there is enough to push it outside of a policy lynch.

I don't think Ika's response comes from scum either. I mean, I despise his play here in every conceivable fashion and believe it goes against the rules on being an IC, but that's outside of everything.

Which leaves me left over with dier, PC and scourge, in lynch order at this time.

VOTE: scourge

[aphix]

Scourge, you also didn't explain how it could fit into a town perspective, which leads it to a very valid assumption that you are saying it's a scum move.

Then you say I am accusing you of having too weak of an Eagle scum read? I don't think you could misrep any harder. No I'm accusing you of having an eagle scum read, at all, but you knew that and you have decided it's a town read now so that you can be like, no see it's a town read, in response to this post. Your flop on Eagle is awful. I don't at all think you are scum buddies. I think you are trying to make it look that way though.

Scourge, If you weren't snide what was the point? To make a statement that the game state is either lynch a lurker or lynch MIA? Those aren't are only choices.

Also I love how you are concerned about Ika being in the scum spot ... Vote analysis I don't think is ever reliable, and it's certainly not reliable before there is a flip so you are just super scummy here.

PEDIT: Ooh. Realites, thanks for reminding me.

Comparing Realities replaces Political Clout. Please welcome her!

You aren't my dad!

[aphix]

My vote on ika was there as an incentive to hopefully get him to play. I don't know how he plays as mafia, but I don't think his response came from scum motivation. Most people as scum well be much more likely to respond while pressure is on them, and then fade back. There was a little bit more oomph out of ika but not really what I'd expect. Versus like, shock when he was in the game, would come in if anyone cast suspicious or pressure his direction and then slink away as soon as it looked like there was nothing to worry about.

Who knows, maybe being a wet sack is just how ika plays as both alignments. Perhaps he is scum because if he was town maybe there would have been more added pressure from the scum players? But I'm guessing that's where scourge's jump to try and get an ika wagon rolling way. Unfortunately the push on ika there, was kind of a bust, there wasn't a great response out of ika, and he still doesnt' look like he's interested in playing, and everyone taking the "I don't like policy lynch" unfortunately is obviously the easy answer there and disregards the rest of the shitty play Ika has been pulling off here.

[aphix]

Do you purposely post giant walls just so it's hard to respond? Because for fucks sake man.

I'm not saying you should read eagle based solely on that. I'm saying reading your post you made it says clearly that you think eagle is scum. Now you are backtracking on that.

Also, you say I shouldn't think inconsistancies are scummy ... That's rather strange, because I find inconsistencies very scummy.

In regards to scumhunting strategy, pointing out VCA before one, the lynch has happened ... Is pretty shit. That's not scumhunting, the fact that you are playing it off as scumhunting should be a concern. Basically you are saying, if I'm lynched Ika obviously is scum because he was the third vote on me. That's so weak. You can't VCA without an actually lynch. You jumped the gun to try and help push your case on Ika.

Now you are saying your vote was only for pressure ... Your vote is still there... You currently read ika as scummiest in the game ... And he's at the top of your list to lynch ... But that vote was for pressure?

What I said is there certainly is reason to push ika the fact that noone jumped on it ... Except you really ... Does that mean that they are one hundred percent town because of it? No, but it certainly adds into my reads that already exist.

I'm sorry your sad I don't have a list of reads ... You've quoted the post that I think it's clear where I stand. I'm sorry that you are getting confused by my thinking in thread. Yes there are things that are questionable about Ika's play, but also he's a weak town read. I'd like him to come join the game and hopefully that read can improve one way or another.

I also never said anything about me not liking policy lynching. In fact, I'd be fine with a policy lynch here, I feel that strongly about ICs lurking. I'm sure you can read my previous post on it and be clear on my stance there.

I'm kind of very concerned that you read what I wrote and came away with, "Aphix doesn't like policy lynching." When I was talking about everyone elses stance on not liking an Ika policy lynch. Either you aren't really reading my posts and are just skimming to find something to argue with because I'm pushing a wagon on you. Or you are purposely twisting everything. Because much of what you came away with I'm not sure how you came away with. I could see you confused on the ika thing, that's fine. I started typing through some what ifs ... But even then I'm wrapped that up in what I think is going on. So ... Meh. I've been at work too long today.

The other thing that really bothers me ... is you are acting like this one thing is where ALL my reads come from .... It's similar to you throwing off my read on you onto me because of your predecessor and wanting me to pretend that didn't happen. I've been in the game. The whole game is completely relevant. The fact that you don't seem to believe that is mind boggling to me.

Also, scum buddy town. They do that. They do it in a variety of ways. Doing it in a stupid obvious way ... Is a good way to get people questioning whats going on. WIFOM is a thing for a reason. The fact that you defend yourself with more wifom ... is horrible.

[aphix]

So, because when you replaced in my read of your slot didn't miraculously become town I'm confbias? That's nice.
Here. Despite I don't think it's hard to follow where I'm at currently. But since you are going to just continue twisting it to trying to make yourself look all town for demanding it here.
Eagle
Karnage
Ika
Dier
CR
Scourge

Link post numbers or qoutes about WHAT?! If i'm bloody talking about things that have happened pretty much between only you and me talking over two pages and you can't follow along what the fuck!?

[aphix]

I mean, did you really just accuse me of not being clear and specific and not linking things. Also with been talking about the same Eagle post for awhile where you explained how he's scum ... And now all the sudden you have no clue and need a link to it. Your reads just are of convenience. Honestly, you move from pressuring Ika to scumreading him because of ... omgus?

Because is vote on you makes sense. 1050 was terrible. I mean, you aren't really providing reasoning. You make no attempt to interact. Hell, at this point based one what you just said you are still pressuring him. Heck, instead of placing a case at this point you want to put all the onus on him? He responds in a way that, at the least is null and you decide he's scum? Oh that's right, because he's the third on your wagon?

[aphix]

1013 Same post that's been in discussion.

The thing is though, you really only point out that, Ooh, Ika is the third on my wagon ... He must be scum. No other real support. That turns your pressure vote into an OMGUS vote because he's pressuring you. To accuse me of using it wrongly to discredit you ... Why yes, I am trying to discredit you. Because I find you scummy. Your actions are scummy and really you keep shifting everything about. You are just squirming now. But, considering you haven't provided an actually reasoning he's scum other then, he's third on my wagon, that's a scum slot .... That's you responding to his vote on you ....

Again you can't keep saying you were mentioning it for LATER ... but guess what, if you get lynched, we can all go look over votes at that point in time ourselves. No reason to point it out now except to try and push your case on ika. Who knows, maybe you get lynched an Ika isn't on the wagon any more? Maybe he unvoted. Maybe he's the one that hammers you? You can't try and PRE VCA something. Period. You can't. Stop trying to claim like it's some valid thing to point out. It's not.

So, you put pressure on someone. I mean ... Do you think I was inviting him out to tea? Nope, but even in attacking I provided ways to respond. You are just talking about how you "want" ika to be scum, "you think" then moving on to how his actions are null, but we can't have him in lylo so we should policy lynch. Post 1047 is where you said this if you aren't sure about what you've typed. It's after Ika has posted some. You don't discuss what he's said, or try to make alignment sense out of it. Or say he's posting, maybe I can interaction with him. Ask him questions. Point out flaws in his thought process. Talk about how you screwed his mom. I don't know. Something to get interaction and engagement instead of just shutting everything down with, HEY lets lynch him. THen you move onto to 1050. You say you think he has a good chance of flipping scum ... No support of that. You just demand Ika to explain how he's town and why HE shouldn't be lynched. And hey, we should run ika up because ... Nothing else better to do. I'm bored. Lets move things along! It was all a mess.

Now you throw out the, "I'm trying to understand you but you don't want to work with me, because uh. confbias." How about you aren't trying to work with me. You know how many little things were you've started suggesting I'm scum. That's not from a mindset of a town trying to work with their town read.

Also, no most the time town doesn't TRY to look town. The fact that I'm saying you are TRYING to look town, indicates that I think you are faking. If I thought you actually were being town, we wouldn't be having this talk. Also, I like how you throw down that you are performing, "Text book town" things. Like, if there is just a list of things you can do that prove you are town ... Why do we even play this game? Can you point me to this list of text book things that confirm someone as town?

Also ... I like how you go from talking about "motivation" behind action to just, action A is scummy and should be read as scum, action b is towny and should be read as town. Like ... Looking at potential town or scum motivation behind an action in context suddenly doesn't matter .... If you want me to link it ... Here .... http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7593480 that's your iso, ctrl f and search for motivation. You throw it all around there, but now it's all the sudden, I'm doing town thing. I'm not doing scum things. He's doing scum things ... huh ....

[aphix]

EE ... Are you trying to derail scourge wagon and split up the town by just being scummy as all get up all the sudden. With the second vote on ika ... Now trying to start a PC lynch ... Not even bothering to look at the VC to see who replaced him?

I'm stuck in my confbias? How about I'm not the only one that thinks scourge is scummy? Hell, YOU say so youself you've lost your town read on the slot because of scourge but some how I'm supposed to lose my scum read because of scourge? How is that accomplishing anything?

[aphix]

I'm not sure what the underlined bit or the quote has anything to do with your statement or question ...

Honestly because that's a tight place to be in as scum. Lurk lurk lurk. You get pressured. Even a little. Yes ika provided a little more engagement but honestly it wasn't much of a change from what he provided before. Then to jump on to the big wagon there. I don't see it from scum. I mean, the reasoning he joined the wagon he provided. Completely legit. Unless I was completely town reading someone that post alone could be enough to push into a scum lean on a slot.

The thing is ... Since scourge has been at l-1, scourge hasn't continued trying to push her scum reads at all. She still hasn't provided any solid reasoning why he thinks ika is scum as far and she hasn't even contested me stating so. Instead, she's just his arguing with me. Most of her argument's are on theoretic, like when she's talking about scum tells and I bring it back to game content, scourge is all, no no no, I'm talking about mafia in general not the game. Guess what, take that to a discussion about mafia or post game. She's working in attacks on me with those arguments. She's hinted that he thinks I'm scum while saying she's town reading me, and continued several times with what I call, "poking the bear" to keep the argument going. All the while talking about how town needs to get together and keep moving and she's trying to be a town leader, but in reality she seems content to just spin her tires and stay in place. It's not how town acts in this situation, at all.

I think I fixed all the pronoun issues for you scourge. I might get it right at some point.

[aphix]

I don't agree that Scourge's statement there is so much a policy lynch. Because that's very much directly related to the game. In terms of, I can't read this slot, I don't forsee being able to read this slot and we need to keep that out of lylo. But as far as an ika policy lynch, it'd probably fall under lynch all lurkers. Most importantly a sub segment of that being lynch all lurking ICs. Which I think I talked about that at length already so I'm surprised you didn't see that. I guess you could claim what scourge states just is a wordy form of lynch all lurkers ... but that's certainly not what was said.

See, Dier I think I disagree. His activity level didn't increase. Did he respond ... Yes. But it was with the same exact level of the rest of it. Does it leave me with a strong read? No, not really, but it's strong enough to not want to toss the game on a policy lynch. So Dier, are you interested in starting a wagon on me or ika with this questioning? Because it seems like you are warning yourself up for one or the other.

[aphix]

Well, I think eagles whole plan here is absolute bs ... Good thing is, I don't think it's coming from scum ... Why trade himself for karnage .... I mean ... Sure it gives scum two night kills ... and a lynch, but it goes into 2/1 lylo ... Which I don't think is as good for scum as 3/2 lylo. I mean, pure random math it's the same, but certainly narrows down suspects and gives less people to look at.

I mean, unless we think it's all wifom on his part to leave both of them alone so that we have them fighting in lylo, but I really wish they would just stop.

[aphix]

All right, I finally made it through the walls between Scourge and aphix on page 44 and I think that I found the problem.

@aphix

I think that you're reading Scourge as Mafia for seeming to have made a strong argument that Eagle is Mafia and then not following through on that, but that's not really what happened. In 1012 I didn't understand the reason for reading Eagle as Mafia. I thought that it was a contradiction for Karnage to believe both that Eagle dropped the hammer on hasta so as to appear Town and that Eagle would afterward claim to have been certain that hasta was Town so as to appear Town. I essentially advanced the argument that Karnage's position there is more consistent with a Mafia trying to find something suspicious about a Town player than a Town player expressing suspicion of an unknown player. In 1013 Scourge is arguing against

my position on Karnage

, not making a particular argument that Eagle is Mafia (this makes sense because Scourge was voting for Political Clout at the time and subsequently moves her vote to ika in 1031).

Alright. on read though. I see she even explained that and I miss-read it. At least I know more about how that argument went. It still doesn't feel like that is all there is there... If that is all it was though, why does she continue pushing other reasons why eagle is scum, and then .... And then seem to drop it after there is no support, and not explain it as eagle is doing this town, but just a blanket, everything else EE has done is town. Not to mention all the stuff that she pulled in that arguing. Saying she's trying to get me to understand. Why hinting that I'm scum and throwing in veiled insults. That's not how you get some one to understand you and work with you. That's how you continue an argument because it's helping you do what you want to do.

[aphix]

I have no reason to unvote. This close to deadline I'm not going to derail a wagon on scum.

I mean, the above post is wrong on so many levels. I think it leaves out so many different scum tactics, and goes with the one that is probably LEAST likely from scum. Ooh. We have a inactive lurker. Has no interactions with anyone. Is unwilling to play the game ... Lets lynch him now, instead of later. I mean, that's like expecting scum to night kill ika ... That's not ever going to happen.

And I think karnage is spot on. Scourge has flopped hard on eagle. And doesn't ever at any point provide a reasoning for it. I think she finally realized her reason for scum reading eagle was bs so it was best to drop it. It's boggling to me. Not to mention her need to just make stuff up as to what I'm talking about it. When she's talking how I must scum read eagle for my read on her to make sense, how I scum read her only for not scum reading eagle harder ... I mean she's a mess and all over the place, I'm annoyed more people aren't seeing it.

[aphix]

Well today was just an exciting activity filled day for this game huh? Comparing realities where are you at?

[aphix]

It is a discrepancy as one you are saying scum won't kill Ika if he's town and you don't want scum dragging him into lylo If you don't want him in lylo ... That would indicate someone wants him there. Then you are saying scum would love to push a lynch on ika ... Indicating scum doesn't' want him in lylo either. As you just made it clear. So if you are supposed to be town ... And dont' want him in lylo ... Scum doesn't want him in lylo .. Who are you worried about taking him into lylo? I mean, if you think town won't lynch ika in lylo like you are so sure of ... So scum won't take him to lylo ... why not shoot town ika before then if it ruins their plans so hard?

You don't make ANY FUCKING SENSE SCOURGE. Die already. I'm tired of you flopping about on everything and then pulling BS out of your ass as to why that's happening.

[aphix]

No, karnage is now admiting that you said scum wouldn't shoot him ... But why wouldn't they shoot him if he's so bad for them in lylo? You are saying if ika is town, scum wouldn't want him in lylo. Because according to you he won't be lynched there. But you also are saying in no way well ika be shot ... Like you are confident on that. But why not shoot town ika if he's that bad in lylo? Or I mean, he's not going to be shot because you aren't going to shoot him? My fact is I don't see at all how things are as clear cut as you are trying to make them sound. And any claim otherwise is just ridiculous, and shitty moves like, "You must not be thinking clearly, go take a nap." Like you didn't even read what I wrote. You have STATED scum doesn't want him in lylo ... But you also stated scum well in no way shoot him if he's town. Basically you are making an arguement that leaves him alive as either alignment but also talking about how neither alignment probably wants him along. Basically it works out good for you no matter what happens. Ika gets lynched flips town, well, policy lynch, we couldnt' have him in lylo. Ika doesn't get lynched, he must be scum. Ika makes it into lylo as either alignment, well he must be scum because by my own arguement noone would have taken town ika into lylo .....

But that only works if you are town ... Which you aren't. I mean, being scum, this works out for you either way, sets up an ika lynch in lylo or you get a mislynch here with very little blow back. But what is most red flag for me, if you are town, how are you disregarding the idea that scum well take you and him and your bs about it, into lylo? How is that not a possibility that has crossed your mind? I think the answer to that is you aren't looking at this from a town perspective. You are looking at this from a very small closed perspective based on faerie tales you've been building up.

[aphix]

I've already stated why I think ika is town. You've probably read them and already talked about how I'm wrong too. So quit acting like I haven't provided information.

I also like how you disregarded the most important part ... Of if you are actually town, why wouldn't scum take you and your BS into lylo with Ika? Why did you decide to completely disregard that? Not mention it at all in fact? Oh, because it's a very valid thing that town would probably notice? That provides a reason why scum would leave town ika alive? I mean, that's cool, instead focus on the, aphix hasn't talked about why ika is town ... which you know, is a lie. That's cool. Let's focus on that.

[aphix]

Also in regards to meta? I don't know the answer, and some people don't actually like pulling shit out of their ass. I also don't think meta is that reliable at any point in time, until you are looking at actually massive amounts of numbers. And I have yet to see research into rather or not town flip flops on lurker reads in lylo.

[aphix]

Your right I didn't see your post because it wasn't actually there when I read.

But I mean isn't the same argue kent for ika being scum you know he's so hard to lynch. Make scourge scum too. I'm just tired of this. Scourge says one thing. But constantly leaves himself wiggle room to be like no your reading it wrong. I didn't state directly that. He really continues not taking one stance that when called out on is like well no I said "maybe" or well in this other post I indicated he might be town so obviously I was on the fence. You've been on the fence all day. I mean look at his iso earlier he says scum won't take a lurker to lylo. Now he's saying it'll work out just fine for them. He's ridiculous.

Then there is the whole it's me or ika thing which I feel is awful. I mean both your wagons have stalled out. And you don't think there is a possibility something else might happen? I mean you think you know exactly what is going to happen all day now. That sort of confidence is bullshit. And I think very rarely comes from town.

And people are pushing lurker ika on the basis of it stalling out. But they don't think scourge is scum because he's so easy to lynch?

[aphix]

Last thing, I like how out of everything. Me saying that you are ignoring possibilities and not looking at things though a town viewpoint indicates I'm defending ika? Yeah I think he's probably town. But just because your thoughts are bull and I'm calling you scummy for them doesn't indicate a defense of ika. I'm really glad you wanted to toss that in. I'm waiting next for you to start deciding I'm scum with ika. You've already been laying the ground work for your change in reads.

[aphix]

would it be too far of a strectch for EE and CR to be scum buddies figuing out who to waogn?

I'd imagine if that is the case ... You'd be lynched already.

[aphix]

You can't hammer EE. Sorry.

[aphix]

Alright. I don't even know what to say about all this. EE I have a feeling regardless of your alignment that was just awful right there ... Seriously what were you thinking? I mean I'm hopefully waiting for Realities to post ... And your intent sounded like you weren't going to wait very long for a claim ... and your response is to hammer anyways?

I do ask that no one else vote EE at this time until we get to discuss today. Although I don't know what to think with Ika opening up with a vote and then not planning on being back for a day ... I guess if your scum you can vote ... But town, shouldn't be voting here.

[aphix]

Still really like to wait until we hear from everyone before I come to any real decision but I have a feeling that about cinches it right there ...

[aphix]

The issue I have, as I stated, that hammer is bad coming from either alignment, the only way that works I feel if is scum knows exactly what is going on for the rest of the game. I guess I could see that hammer coming from scum to protect their partner, but I have a feeling that leaves protecting Ika who was the counter wagon to Scourge ... I'm not sure if anyone else what a threat to be lynched yesterday, I'll have to reread and see if there was support for Realities, but I guess i could see that there if Realities was struggling to catch up or they couldn't come up with good reads for her on the second day, or eagle thought he might be a lynch today and wanted to try and set up ika or realities?

Yes I'm unsure. It's alright, all the caps up there, you can join the crowd that things I'm awful at this game and should stop playing.

Realities, so you laid out the two possibilities here ... Provided a plan or two? Including one that is optimum ... Then provide a second possibility, followed by what ifs, Do you have any plans for the what ifs there?

There is lots of issues here though. I mean, if there is a doctor, and I assume there is, doctor doesn't claim ... Scum already know at least one person that isn't the doctor, possibly two people. So if the shoot one and role lock the other, they either find the doctor, or shoot the doctor. If the doctor claims, there is a counter claim ... A mislynch means we lose, as scum can role block the doctor and shoot who they want. I think if there are two claimed doctors, we'd have to NL ... Scum can't shoot the doctor, but unfortunately can role block them, but that also means we narrow down the field.

The only thing that comes to mind, and actually concerns me in what I read about Realities post that leads to a awful conclusion ... If there is a claimed doctor and no counter claim ... Is the claim coming from scum then? We don't have a flipped role block to confirm the doctor ... I mean, if we have that thought, scum don't counterclaim do we lynch the claim? Scum don't have to counter claim as they can role block the doctor from here on out.

And then the possibility of mafia no killing to claim doctor ... That opens up a whole other bag. I mean, if they no killed as a gambit, how do you think we figure that out Realities? ...I mean, I can see the power in that ... but I also feel like after that hammer, regardless of eagle's alignment scum are in a weaker spot with no killing. If eagle is scum, they give up a lot of power on the vote by no killing and I agree if a doctor protected eagle after last night they are scum, as there is no way anyone thinks scum shoots town eagle there ..., and if eagle is town ... they can no longer quick hammer. I mean, scum would have to know someone is going to slap a vote down here?

Comparing Realities, Dier, Karnage: Please can I get some feedback on the above ... What do you think of Ika opening up with a vote here? I'm currently torn on rather it's not town being super confident, scum trying to get town points by giving up potential quick hammer ... Or possibly trying to get town cred by busing partner? Distancing and trying to get town to shy off of eagle by worrying about a quick hammer? Hopefully getting town to vote elsewhere allowing quickhammer? Possible reaction test? I could see that as well.

Dier, Karnage: What do you think of Realities thoughts on the night ... None of it seems wrong to me, but it feels weird, like there's lots of talking about what a doctor should do, and then seems like there is less not thought but enthusiasm about the following possibilities? The massive paragraph, into the single line format stands out to me ... Being so sure on eagle, especially after ika jumps in with a vote, seems like a very safe place to be I feel, and I think she thinks so to based on her pedit. It seems like she thinks it's absurd to have reserves about eagles alignment.

Eagle: I got to hear your explanation here man.

[aphix]

I didn't mean to hammer. I trusted aphix when he said I couldn't hammer and took that as "there aren't enough votes for yourself to be the hammer. Talk more when I get off work.

ooh. I have so many things to say about this ... But I've just decided I want to see what else you have to say before I go further. I'll just leave this here.

[aphix]

Please use your words Ika.

[aphix]

I actually don't know what to think about the Ika vote ... Hence talking about possibilities and asking for feedback on it. I mean, yes I could see more possibilities for scum doing it then town doing it ... but those are all situation dependent there. I'm kind of annoyed that that's what you took out of my post was ... Ika is scum?

What's really still making me very upset is ika has still provided no sense that he cares about playing the game. Unfortunely everything I really have to say and feel about ika has no baring on the game per say or his alignment and it's pissing me off.

I'm not sold on Realities being town. Especially if eagle is scum, they've been pushing each other all game without really actually trying to get each other lynched. I could easiely see a Realities/EE team. Though that EE flip right there IDK what to think about ...1125 says Realities is scum buddies with karnage ... Now she's conf town to him? Now she's playing a strong town game ... Now he's dropping in "I love your name btw" this after he brings up Realities didn't consider buddying .... Or the fact that he seems to be switching from comparing realities ... realities ... reality ... cr ... Makes it awesome fun to sort though his iso .... Is the flop because they realized their relationship prior game has been weak and looks like partners and need to through in some hard wifom all the sudden?

Like ... Blah.

[aphix]

Then he accuses me of tricking him ... And is starting to soft push on me ... I mean, I guess if I read his post right he thinks something has changed in my game play that makes him go back to his original scum read ... But I feel like it's all based on me supposedly making him hammer, when there was a goddamn vote count at the top of the page ... I went from such a strong read that he could take my word on placing a vote supposedly without even checking where we were at, to scum partners with someone ... About as much of a 360 as his read on Realities ....

And the other issue with Realities argument on who claims or not I think doesn't include if eagle is scum ... I think if eagle is a sure lynch like she says here, he doesn't counter claim, it actually doesn't help his case much ... and his partner certainly doesn't counterclaim as that's risking the game completely .... I feel like she's setting it up so if a doctor claims and isn't countered they just have to be scum. I mean, say even ika claims doctor ... If someone claims and EE counterclaims is there anyone that you are going to lynch in this game over him?

I don't know what to think about EEs play. It doesn't seem like it's great as either alignment .... Also for Realities judging my concern ... A mis lynch here, if I'm reading the game correctly, has at best a 50% chance of town making it through the night? Maybe I'm missing something or my math is bad ... I don't know.

Even after that hammer and this weird flip flop eagle is doing, I have a stronger scum read on Realities slot ... But even that has me concerned that I'm reading into something her predecessor did way deeper then I should. It's pretty obvious I do that sometimes ...

PEDIT: talking about what happened last night without a role block flip at this point is all wifom I think. I'm not sure if I agree with the doctor not claiming though. If there is a doctor, scum has it narrowed down to 3 people .... Unless we lynch whoever they blocked ... We just narrowed it down to one of two people, they block one shoot the other and it's game over ... So I can totally see scum motivation is squashing the claim ... And claiming isn't really even beneficial at this point so it seems completely reasonable to come from town as well ....

In terms of you(Realities) having other scum partners ... I could say ika could be just about any ones scum buddy, but yes ... I am definitely at odds with my read of your slot ...

[aphix]

I'm hopefully waiting for Realities to post ... And your intent sounded like you weren't going to wait very long for a claim ... and your response is to hammer anyways?

I'll just leave this right here ... I mean EE ... If you think I tricked you to hammer a town member ... How am I not your preferred lynch of the day? Are you kidding me?

[aphix]

Ika: Who is likely Eagles scum partners?

Karnage: I make the assumption you support an eagle lynch today? Same question?

Realities: Would you care to break down eagle's partners? Right now you say everyone could be eagles partner. In fact eagle seems to be the only solid scum you have by reading your reads list.

Dier: Where are you at here ... I really need some input here.

[aphix]

If dier doesn't show up I have a scum read on him for lurking in lylo since scum should have coordinated votes and hammered me by now unless one of them is absent

No, no and no.

Karnage, thank you for paying attention. Eagle, do you have the mod blocked?

[aphix]

And I think that's one of the things that concerns me on the Realities front as well. If felt like she was sandbagging the catch up ... And it could go either way that eagle didn't want her to catch up and help shift wagons or like I said maybe he's helping a buddy who cant figure out the best route to take and still look town there ... I don't know, Eagle definitely cut things short there.

[aphix]

Okay Dier .. You are here... Do you have anything to add?

[aphix]

Ooh yeah. My math wasn't wrong but I guess you are right. Scum don't need to know who the doctor is just have to have it narrowed down to two people ....

[aphix]

Can you please participate Ika.

[aphix]

No discussion? Every day just a vote and a lynch? Let's just get rid of day phases and just pm our votes to the mod?

[aphix]

Pics or it didn't happen

I support this.

Also, I do have a sexy belly button.


VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

[aphix]

Dier's town. Only reason I'd hammer there.

[aphix]

GG alll

this was my first IC game so it was terrible yes. IM not exusing it nor do i plan on being IC again for a while

Honestly, in terms of addressing questions or things that you covered as "IC info" you did fine. The only issue I had was in terms of activity level. At most I feel you got to active lurking. Which as I pointed out activity is kind in the "how to be a good IC" so if you could be present and active. I think you'll do more then a fine job. It's just that newbie games are hard to get going and have a lot of replacements having the IC being inactive much of the time is a killer. I don't think you were lurking as a game tactic which I've had at least one IC admit to, which I personal think should bar them from ICing, but obviously I have strong feelings on thinks that lead to inactive games.

absinthe, yes you are right, if someone is doing something I think is detrimental to the game, I'm going to bring it up, but I could have definitely approached it in a better matter and things escalated. My goal was not for him to replace out, and I feel bad it led to that.

Eagle: I really did feel bad when you changed your reads there. Although I might have been fine either, I crumbed doctor at the beginning of the game and smithereens response made me think she was cop or tracker, so I hoped it would go well. Absinthe flipping cop was my happiest moment ever.

[aphix]

Of course I cooled down. It was a requirement. It often happens when it comes down to the line. Normally it happens naturally. But aside from something I feel specific about, and the shock bit which got out of hand, most of it was actually planned out. Certain words added in to make it look like I was actually upset about things. I'm just in general an awful person. I think you rated my personality too high.

[aphix]

Comments: What did you do to drop that cop crumb aphix said you did?

I felt there was a good chance they were responding to my crumb. It's when they changed reads on me that most likely came from a PR.

[aphix]

Well, I guess "good chance" was actually too much. I already mentioned a long time back in the mafia thread that even if you were cop/tracker that you probably wouldn't have seen it. I wasn't the only one that thought your slot might be the PR ... That whole thing was a weird exchange. I'm still curious why the rest of the people replacing into the slot weren't concerned by it, and continued with the town read of me.