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In post 45, Karnage wrote:
sure but he was under no pressure to vote RC there but felt the need to justify his not voting him anyway
I felt like I was under pressure because of the huge bandwagon.
UNVOTE:
I can see why you would feel that.
MeNowDealWithIt wrote:I feel like I should contribute something right now, but I don't know what.
re-read, look for statements/actions that don't make sense coming from a town perspective or don't benefit town. if you see something, comment on it. If you like their response then fine, if not, then maybe you found scum and you should vote for them.
apart from pressurizing did you have any specific reason for that
) Ircher popped in instantly. It
is
true that he hadn't posted for about 2 days anywhere before that1, but it was still a Beetlejuice2.
UTL's reaction was strange too. What was the point of greeting him? (If there were no Mafia Daytalk I'd call it a tell but since there is, I simply don't know what to think of it.)
sorry, missed this before. The vote was initially to pressure an inactive player but I'm content to leave it there for the time being
I'm wondering why two null reads (UTL and RC) got to be part of the pretty rainbow of reads while broo and I just get thrown in as "everyone else... null read"
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Post #121 (isolation #15) » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 103, broo wrote:
While your evasion of my point is intriguing, it would be a stretch to say that your behaviour has been worthy of the wagon. I'd say that there's always plenty of new information to gather, but scraping the barrel at this stage may end up doing more harm than good.
UNVOTE:
I wonder if your unvote had more to do with this:
In post 94, Smudger wrote:
so the other two votes on the wagon aren't enough of a prod? Seems an opportunistic vote to me...
In post 118, Karnage wrote:I'm wondering why two null reads (UTL and RC) got to be part of the pretty rainbow of reads while broo and I just get thrown in as "everyone else... null read"
I suppose I should be posting more if even the "why aren't people being included" post doesn't include me.
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Post #173 (isolation #21) » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:09 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 172, Ircher wrote:
I have Edge at neutral cuz he is neutral. I have enough of a read where I think Edge is not null, but not enough evidence in either direction for town/scum read.
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Post #175 (isolation #22) » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:36 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 174, Ircher wrote:Why not? What about it makes absolutely no sense. I simply said I had a neutral read cuz the read isn't town, scum, or null.
maybe my definition of null is different? When I call somebody null I'm saying I don't have any scum or town read on them. So to say you have a read that they are not null and to not have them at least leaning one way or the other makes no sense to me
In post 175, Karnage wrote:maybe my definition of null is different? When I call somebody null I'm saying I don't have any scum or town read on them. So to say you have a read that they are not null and to not have them at least leaning one way or the other makes no sense to me
are Null and neutral not the same thing?
Normally I would say they are. I'm just trying to figure out what Ircher is saying in 172
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Post #235 (isolation #25) » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:49 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 234, Ircher wrote:........... Here's a good tip for mafia: don't lurk. Like, I've never seen a game this slow this early D1.
And I would like RC to answer my question that I've asked twice already.
shouldn't that be a tip for everybody, regardless of alignment?
I'm trying to scumhunt I'm ust not finding anything.
I tried to call out Adenine and see what would result of ir but b,fghone ignored me an fukc so no nothing
I got nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohting.
Is this scumhunting?
In post 287, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'm not sure about Ircher but I like UTL for town enough.
I will sheep you until such time as I have something worth doing.
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Post #307 (isolation #28) » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:39 am
Postby Karnage »
In post 297, Smudger wrote:Karnage, I see why you are voting RC, what are your thoughts on the other wagons?
MNDWI - I don't like that wagon. He's acting similarly to how I felt during my first game. I dont get how screwing up the vote tags is scummy at all.
Ircher - At this point I'd be ok with an Ircher lynch. I don't like his null/neutral read thing. His sheeping of anenine's MNDWI case is also bad, especially the vote tag read. I also don;t like that he expresses frustration with RC but doesn't act on it by voting. I think he's much more likely to be scum than than the other two.
Anenine - I was liking anenine as town up until his case on MNDWI. now I'd call him null.
In post 307, Karnage wrote:MNDWI - I don't like that wagon. He's acting similarly to how I felt during my first game. I dont get how screwing up the vote tags is scummy at all.
There were many other things beside those vote tags.
your case is meh. the vote tags seems to be ircher's top reason for voting though
In post 307, Karnage wrote:Ircher - At this point I'd be ok with an Ircher lynch. I don't like his null/neutral read thing. His sheeping of anenine's MNDWI case is also bad, especially the vote tag read. I also don;t like that he expresses frustration with RC but doesn't act on it by voting. I think he's much more likely to be scum than than the other two.
I don't think Ircher and MeNow could be scums together and MeNow looks much scummier. What do you mean by "he's acting similarly"?
44 - I can remember thinking the same thing my first game. 141 - I've "sheeped" players I felt were more experienced than I was as town 213 - I've worryied, as town, about my posts coming off scummy 215 - I took offense to people calling me noobish
In post 322, Karnage wrote:your case is meh. the vote tags seems to be ircher's top reason for voting though
The fact that Ircher picked one single thing out of my case (and/or parrotted it later) doesn't make my case weaker.
In post 322, Karnage wrote: 44 - I can remember thinking the same thing my first game. 141 - I've "sheeped" players I felt were more experienced than I was as town 213 - I've worryied, as town, about my posts coming off scummy 215 - I took offense to people calling me noobish
All of these may have come from a scum mindset too.
By the way, this is Ircher's 5th game or so, he's not that more experienced as him.
I'll talk more about your case when I can get on a computer.
How can 215 be from a scum mindset? He's telling people to stop reading him as town because he is new! Instead he wants to be judged based on his play. Scum would just be happy being town read no matter the reason.
In post 322, Karnage wrote:. the vote tags seems to be ircher's top reason for voting though
It is. The key you seem to be mussing is he did it *twice* incorrectly.
Also, earlier I said it get called out in newbie games. I meant it was bound to get called out in any game *except* newbies where there is a leeway. I never review my posts.
I don't think I've ever seen a person voted because they screwed up vote tags, newbie game or otherwise. Can you link to games where you saw this?
By "review" do you mean use the preview button before you post or do you mean looking at your post after you submitted it?
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Post #445 (isolation #36) » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:20 pm
Postby Karnage »
UTL's hammer needs to be addressed but I don't like how RC and Ircher tried to run up the wagon before everybody had a chance to post after the day started. UTL could have made a mistake I guess but that can be sorted later.
VOTE: Ircher
One or both of RC and Ircher are scum. RC votes UTL, and Ircher follows. Then RC unvotes and Ircher follows. Ircher is a stronger overall scum read for me so my vote goes on him.
In post 445, Karnage wrote:One or both of RC and Ircher are scum. RC votes UTL, and Ircher follows. Then RC unvotes and Ircher follows. Ircher is a stronger overall scum read for me so my vote goes on him.
That's an awfully obv. way to play as scum --> If either of us were scum, that would be a poo move, esp. for me.
If scum play was always optimal, "mafia would be a dumb game".
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Post #450 (isolation #38) » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:08 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 449, Ircher wrote:Well, with DayTalk, scum would avoid being **THAT** obvious. Your vote truly has no merit.
you know your play from day 1 carries over to day 2 right? your inconsistent reads, the null/neutral BS, your sheeping, the vote-formatting case against MNDWI, how it was the top reason for you voting him except you later called it pointless, that stuff doesn't just go away with the start of a new day.
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Post #531 (isolation #41) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:41 pm
Postby Karnage »
alright, lets slow down for a second. There's plenty of time left in the day so we can take our time before lynching me, though I'd prefer to lynch UTL
first UNVOTE: ircher
looking back its pretty clear whats going on with him and RC. I'm just an idiot and missed it.
second, I'm still unclear why everybody is so keen on my lynch. I've been actively looking for scum, I was wrong, but at least I've been trying. I'd appreciate at least knowing WHY i'm being mislynched before it happens.
thirdly, I'm still going to try and find scum while I'm still here
VOTE: UTL
I haven't forgotten about his hammer on Day 1 and he's been happy to jump on whoever looks like the most likely lynch today. He was expressing intent to hammer with 12 days left in the day
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Post #534 (isolation #42) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:43 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 529, UpTooLate wrote:Going into today, I was pretty sure on Ircher, but I was starting to wane a little in my reads and decided I should invest my time elsewhere. I pushed Ircher hard because I really hadn't gotten anything good from him and I wanted to feel him out more, but I really really didn't like Karnage's jump on him. Ircher would totally be easy ML bait, and Karnage jumped on it. The way he worded his post about wanting to "address" the hammer yesterday, but wanting to sort it out later, gave me the feeling that he was setting it up to come after me next. If the Ircher lynch had gone through, and he flipped town, I'd be the prime candidate for the next ML. I fucked up yesterday, and then I pushed Ircher hard from the start. I'm just curious if both broo and Karnage would take the bait together though, or if his partner is An like you think.
Oh, I fully intended to come back to you. I just felt much stronger about ircher being scum at the time. As I explained at the time.
This is the kind of circular reasoning we need to avoid. UTL's explanation in #386 is solid.
In post 393, UpTooLate wrote:
Ircher's jump on it is way scummier than RC's push.
You're right, but Ircher has been playing so badly so consistently that it's possible he's just retard-town.
I'm still confused about #383 - could this be considered scum distancing? Seems pretty risky considering what just happened. This is what makes me say either.
I've liked RC for town all game. If it came down to either or, it'd be Ircher. Nothing Ircher has done has sat well with me. I'm actually about to look into his completed game and see how he played there.
In post 409, UpTooLate wrote:seems to have no issue forming his own thoughts and opinions as opposed to just sheeping cases. He's also a big fan of quote walls and walls of text in general.
Once again, I'm just going to say people change. My days of doing quote walls are mostly past. Again, you should know better than what you are saying right now.
That is a really really drastic change. Not necessarily the walls (I really hope those are gone forever =D), but just the way you're approaching the game in general. I mean, I know meta's aren't absolute and it's too easy to change your game play from game to game, but that with everything else you've done this game has done nothing but ping me in all the wrong ways.
In post 434, UpTooLate wrote:Everyone, please. If you aren't scumreading Ircher, tell me why. Because I can't see a possible way he's town right now.
I find that hard to believe. Especailly since once the pressure move to me you were happy to join the fun:
In post 529, UpTooLate wrote:Going into today, I was pretty sure on Ircher, but I was starting to wane a little in my reads and decided I should invest my time elsewhere. I pushed Ircher hard because I really hadn't gotten anything good from him and I wanted to feel him out more, but I really really didn't like Karnage's jump on him. Ircher would totally be easy ML bait, and Karnage jumped on it. The way he worded his post about wanting to "address" the hammer yesterday, but wanting to sort it out later, gave me the feeling that he was setting it up to come after me next. If the Ircher lynch had gone through, and he flipped town, I'd be the prime candidate for the next ML. I fucked up yesterday, and then I pushed Ircher hard from the start. I'm just curious if both broo and Karnage would take the bait together though, or if his partner is An like you think.
Oh, I fully intended to come back to you. I just felt much stronger about ircher being scum at the time. As I explained at the time.
I said you were planning on coming back to me, after the Ircher lynch went through.
Yes, when I felt pretty strongly that Ircher was scum. A the start of the day your and ircher were my top pick for the scum team. As the day went on the Ircher/RC interactions really bothered me so I started to think maybe I was wrong about you and that they were the scum team. Now that its pretty obvious to anybody paying attention that they are town, I've gone back to you as being scum.
p-edit
ok, what am I supposed to be looking for?
Spoiler: Reads
Confirmed Town
(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM
Likely Town
RadiantCowbells - I hate his scattershot style, but right now, my gut says town.
UpTooLate - She's being genuine in her actions. While daytalk COULD be used to sugggest such a hammer, it is MORE LIKELY that the hammer was an honest accident. My "anti-town" behavior I will admit was mostly me having fun; HOWEVER, it does serve as a semi-decent reaction test, WHICH I have gotten satisfying results from.
Leaning Town
Anen - The suspicion is mostly gone, as I was prob. more reflexive voting Anen at the beginning. I like how his analysis is starting to seem less over-analytical and more his pov. In all, it is a strong town lean for me.
Null
Neutral
Edge - I liked his D1 play, but he has yet to speak in D2, so I'm leaving at neutral.
In post 542, Karnage wrote:My "anti-town" behavior I will admit was mostly me having fun; HOWEVER, it does serve as a semi-decent reaction test, WHICH I have gotten satisfying results from.
You asked about my ealy D2 actions as a reaction test, that's my 100% honest answer.
that post was for UTL, he implied in 529 that his push on you was meant as a reaction test (he wanted to see if anybody took the bait or something like that)
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Post #547 (isolation #46) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:09 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 546, UpTooLate wrote:Not exactly. Ircher was still scummy to me, and tbh I was dead sure of it for a while after I started pressuring him again today. But the fact that someone I'm townreading wasn't comfortable with his wagon yesterday and didn't seem to have issues with him today made me start to looking at his interactions differently,
who is the townread you are referring to here?
especially with you and broo jumping in on him like that. The difference between you and broo, though, was that broo had reason to believe what I did wasn't scummy, but you seemed to still have issues with it (which is completely understandable).
I believe I did say there was a chance it was a mistake. I don't get this statement though, me having an issue with it was completely understandable but its the reason you think I'm scum?
My problem, is like I said earlier. It read as if though you were prepping me for later, after Ircher's lynch. In 445 you say that you don't like "how RC and Ircher tried to run up the wagon before everybody had a chance to post after the day started." Tell me, had they not posted first, would you not have taken that opportunity? Would you not have immediately placed your vote on the person who quickhammered a VT the day before?
It wasn't the voting of you. it was what I thought was a desire to lynch you that early in the day without having heard from everybody else.
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Post #627 (isolation #48) » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:20 pm
Postby Karnage »
I have no intention of claiming until somebody states intent to hammer Nice job trying to get me to claim before the rest of the town (particularly ircher) has a chance to comment.
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Post #630 (isolation #50) » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:38 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 628, UpTooLate wrote:Why wouldn't he push another strong scum read knowing he could get the guilty the next day? Or is that bad play?
That would make sense but now he's outed himself under no pressure to do so which would just result in him being killed at night anyway (if he was the cop). No different than if he'd just pushed me from the start. And where is his strong scum read? His vote has been all over
Plus we aren't close to deadline. He would have plenty of time to push a different lynch or convince everybody to lunch me. Claiming cop here makes no sense from a town perspective
In that game you claimed cop with a guilty result on Titus in your second post of day 2. then later you renegged on that claim . Titus was later lynched and turned out to be a vanilla townie and in the end you were actually a cop. I missed if you ever actually caught scum in that game but I did see that town lost big time.
was there something else everybody was supposed to take from that game?
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Post #640 (isolation #52) » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:49 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 636, UpTooLate wrote:Go look at Karnage. He flew under the radar on Day 1, then only shows up today when he needs to defend or jump on a wagon. Don't fall for his shit.
go back and read my iso and tell me I was trying to fly under the radar... the fact of the matter is that I wasn't
I'll UNVOTE: RC because there is a chance that RC is town though I'm doubting it
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Post #646 (isolation #55) » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:14 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 645, UpTooLate wrote:I did. All surface level shit until you jumped on Ircher.
you were wrong in 204 and you are wrong now, its just now you don't want to admit it
at that point I had 23 posts I think and you had 27. I'd gladly put my contribution to the game at that point up against yours. I'm more than happy to put my contribution throughout the whole game against yours.
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Post #748 (isolation #57) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:40 pm
Postby Karnage »
VOTE: RC
this play is not town motivated. he won't fully claim but he expects other PRs to counter-claim him? If I'm bullet proof what do I do? he's claiming cop OR tracker. And my money says if/when somebody does he's going to just say it was just RC being RC and he was pushing reads.
go back and look at the game that HE referenced... he claimed a guilty on Titus who later turned out to be a vanilla townie and he did that as town! I don't get why anybody would doubt he would do this as scum.
No PR should claim until RC fully claims his role and any result he says he has on me. Then if he isn't CC'd I will unvote
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Post #753 (isolation #59) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:50 pm
Postby Karnage »
In post 751, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't like how Ircher and Karnage are both playing the 'DON'T CC' angle because they know that's the only way to keep Karnage alive here.
No, I'm saying nobody should CC until you claim your role fully.