Newbie 1688 (Game Over)

[The MM]

Okay, I'll stick to my guns from my mafia games from outside for the time being...
This means immediate aggro blahblah IC explained why.
VOTE: PrivateI

[The MM]

I'd start ranting, but people interpret my rantings as "this guy is scum".

So I'll simply justify this as "PrivateI tries to lynch the IC". Seriously, if the IC is not scum, that's the simplest indirect scumclaim ever; and if the IC is Mafia, they'd know better than to immediately collapse under pressure, meaning a FoS would be just as effective. I'm not even gonna bother anyone else.

[The MM]

The MM, why wouldn't scum!PrivateI lynch some schmuck(as opposed to an experienced mafia player who would better know how to defend himself) and then try to NK me at night?

1. There's a bunch of facts and possibilities about that.
2. They want to get rid of not only the IC but all the SE as well ASAP, and bank on an unsuspicious town's lack of interest.
3. It's always a plus to get a bandwagon going earlier on and "clean" oneself out of all responsibility.

Then again, I come from a place where the town nearly always lynches a power role day 1 because we're being played around, plus my natural paranoid tendencies.

UNVOTE: PrivateIThis would do absolutely nothing to keep in there, it's not like there's pressure going on in the slightest... Blargh. I'll try to play more armchair-style for a twenty-fold of hours.

[The MM]

I rarely follow bandwagons, but I see no reason not to vote robbylet since he's been acting shifty so far and I really want to hear his excuses.
I'm not quite voting him yet, just waiting for his reason to even pull shifty tricks early-game.

[The MM]

Maybe we don't need that for him to talk.
There's also the fact that I don't wanna trust others too much, even though I know the Mafia won't risk to quickhammer day 1.

[The MM]

It's not him, it's everyone else. If robby fails to answer and two peeps decide to derphammer him and he flips town, welp... you get the idea. And I don't wanna make a mistake.
But hey, pressure... I guess? VOTE: robbylet

Now the polemics are over, let's see what

he

says.

[The MM]

Sorry for carrying tendencies from years of Mafia playing while assuming that:
- Everyone else but a pair of players is an idiot
- If not, they're actively trying to help the Mafia even if they're actually town
- If not, they're lurking

Adapting to here is a tiny bit brain-taxing.

[The MM]

An experienced Salem player, I see.

Not "Salem" per se.
Just Mafia-ing in a world full of non-serious play. Ask wgeurts for a fuller story on my "experience".

I honestly don't know what i was thinking.

This isn't the sort of answer that makes me unvote you.

While I can consider thoughtlessness as an excuse, that still doesn't even clear you in any way as far as I am concerned.

[The MM]

The MM, who do you like as of right now?

I'm not a guy who likes people easily. Last I checked my Mafia psychology is completely off the rails, and even if it wasn't, I had no townread at all. Accountant's been helping a bunch in pointing out the flaws of whatever it is I tried to do, but I'm putting that on the IC hat, because otherwise that'd be a solid townread, and considering that my brother's first Mafia game (and the first one I got to see) was defined by a "hard townread" on him and he was the Godfather, well... I'm not quite trusting Accountant

as a player

so not to end falling into the pit. Call it paranoia again, I don't care.

I'm checking post-by-post to see what can get a reaction from me, barring robbylet's kinda-"self-screwjob". All posts come off to me as being as random as the votes.

In that case i Vote: heyboxgaming because i've had trouble in the past with people who ty to lead discussion.

This is already a step in a bad direction imo. Even though I've lead discussions as scum and not as town where I come from, so...
- Post #21 would hurt aa-dono's cred to me, but that's only in retrospect because Accountant happened to have post #23.
- Post #28 tickled my ego briefly, but that briefly triggers the paranoia sensors.

if the IC is Mafia, they'd know better than to immediately collapse under pressure, meaning a FoS would be just as effective.

In past games you've played, how did players use their votes? Votes here are used pretty liberally in the early stages of a game, the FoS really only comes into play when you get to LYLO situations where a bad vote could lose the game.

I feel like I've had a case of selective attention by ignoring this post. My answer is now: It was full-game-RVS meets massive bandwagons meets "lynch-all-talkers" meets unjustified conf-towns. Basically it's playing Mafia while thinking with your balls instead of your brains.

Welp, that does that.
Is it me or am I actually the most active newbposter? It's prolly only because I was asked to.

[The MM]

I'm here.
I would appreciate a more solid defence from robbylet. That being said, I know better than to vote at L-2 until I at least see that much. I find it a bit strange for robbylet to vote for someone who's leading discussion, as opposed to a quiet player (such as myself). I grant that I'm a new player here, but from the few threads that I've gone through in full, Town usually wants to prod people who are being quiet on Day 1, yes? I'm having a hard time buying that "reaction test" defence, with that in mind.

It's easy for scum to lurk, but it seems we're not getting so much more out of robby until he flips.

I honestly don't know what to say to make you suspect me less. It seems everything i say digs my hole deeper.

In your situation, I wouldn't know either. I like to think that gambitting in the first place is usually a mistake. Even if you went scum-fishing now, people would suspect you of trying to find a magnet to distract the town aggro to. Still, as Accountant said, trying to read between the lines and get more insight on who actually might be scum could dig you out of this, maybe..?

Accountant, in post 49 you said MM is your biggest town read because he is paranoid. Couldn't he be easily feigning that to seem like a townie? It does not seem like a tell to me.

I like to think I can tell the difference between real paranoia and fake paranoia, and The MM's paranoia seems genuine to me. His posts indicate a clear pattern of thought that's consistent with his behavior. For example, his reluctance to vote robby, then voting robby after some thinking, was very consistent with the mindset of a paranoid town with bad experiences at playing mafia.
robby, if you are really town, please give us your reads, so at least if you die we can look at it and say, "these reads are genuine, they come from flipped town". That's all I'm asking.

I'm not sure I got a real pattern of thought myself. I'm a VT, so I'm just trying to prod scum by talking while trying to make no mistakes and also occasionnally following the IC like a dog. Sue me. The meta change kinda makes me feel like a fish out of water I will admit, but I still prefer that to the poisoned waters I've been playin' in.

Robby's answers are extremely short, and he relies on gut feeling (which I think is rarely a good idea) so even if he's not mafia, he's not as serious as a few other players.

Yay it does.

Nice snail, or something..?

PrivateI (re. #55) and Accountant (re. #63), here's a quick summary of my perspective on each individual so far:

The MM:
He hasn't yet made a really strong opinion about any of the other players. #51 comes close to that, but not far enough (his arguments about #21 and #28 seem insubstantial). I can't give a good read for him yet, but I can't say I like him. His #41 statement of "I don't wanna make a mistake" is somewhat scum to me. Probabilistically, without evidence, Town will "make a mistake" and lynch Town on Day 1, yes? Without some game motion we aren't likely to see evidence, and there's no harm in voting or raising suspicions in order to see how others react. From my perspective I can't say I'm concerned about making mistakes in terms of my analysis; the reason why I'm going through all of this is for people to respond to what I've said, and support or argue against my positions. In conclusion, I have my suspicions of The MM.

No opinion of the other players? I've only been talking to a few if ever. Especially Fancypants, aa-dono and GuiltyLion; I sometimes forget they're even in the game. Barring a little "skirmish", PrivateI is on the same category. That's nearly four players singled out, with me having no opinion of them. PrivateI did leave an afterthought of vague credibility, and so did GL's one post I read.
No good read? I'm trying to play seriously as a VT (which even non-VT townies should do IMO), this is a position as rare as it gets for me (with my preference for role madness and the overall wackiness I'm used to). As for liking me, don't worry. Few like me anyway, and we can win as a town without even liking each other.
Looking back on HBG and post #28, it seems I'm nowhere near as aggressive as I made myself out to be, probably because mistakes have more impact here than in

MAFIA-WINS-LOL

-land. I agree that HBG, PrivateI and GuiltyLion act surprisingly ittle for what I would suspect of SEs, but SEs are not ICs, right?
For not making mistakes, we have 2 weeks for each day phase to make sure we aim right (as opposed to the average 3 to 5 days I'm used to). Add that noone seems stupid enough to let derphammers happen and it's actually way more likely than Mafia gets hurt Day 1. AFAIK it's our role as the town to make everyone feel pressured and see who snaps. With these weeks, town can force motion - mostly by vote pressure - and find out scum to root out. I've already told I was waiting for an occasion to pressure someone else.

I'll let people try to sort out thoughts from this wall of text. Make of that what you will. I may not be the paragon of this town, but at least I'm trying to win. People, slap me in the face if you feel there's something I need to say because I fear I'm getting lost in my thoughts here.

[The MM]

'm trying to play seriously as a VT

Even if it is a vanilla townie claiming, the mafia still can find the PRs easier by process of elimination. Thus, I would gently discourage you from roleclaiming too early.

I think you misunderstood. It doesn't matter if I'm a VT or not as far as playstyle goes. It's better for anyone to play like they're a VT. That's what I mean.

I mean, come on, who's going to believe me on he spot if I was actually roleclaiming VT?

[The MM]

Retrospective post because I didn't read far back last time: if I come across as personally offensive to you, GL, I apologize. Let me warn you that this was meant to be as much of a jab at myself for my lack of attention as it was to your "inactivity" (which is far from being actual inactivity, but all's relative). There's also the fact that I'm used to day phases being over in less than three days and need to adapt a little.
As far as parroting Accountant goes... well yes, I admit of being guilty of massive IC pandering (if I can call it that) since Accountant has been leading the way for now, kinda-sorta. And if you can't beat them, join them. Since finding a hole in Accountant's logic this far kinda has little point.

So, since I have pretty much no reason to keep my vote on robby at this point, I think I'll prod someone else... VOTE: Spinlock
After all, asking to be referred as they is mark of either a hydra (I didn't check but I'm not sure they're allowed), or someone who might be hiding something else. There's personal bias involved but don't bother with that.

The fact that aa-dono is still "missing" kinda bothers me when I think about it, but I first want a read into Spinlock. All so that I can try to forge my opinions, but here, you can see that I'm a honest person and mean no harm by this vote (it's not like it would work, even if I did mean harm). I sure hope the "they" thing is a gimmick because now that robby is halfway-established (this does not mean confirmed in any way shape or form) as having screwed up rather than being scum, I'm out of things to chase after and I feel like town should be going a bit faster on the pressure.
Also, another optional target for me would be Fancypants. Four posts are little to make a read out of, considering that I made like three or four posts since Fancypants last talked, I need to keep the name on my list.

By the way, I don't know what to make of other people, but I'd love it if you guys wrote down what you think of me. That's a bit self-cenetered of me to ask, but that's also in the hopes I can clear things up with you guys. I mean, I feel like I've become that sort of controversial topic simply because I said VT somewhere in my posts and I don't know if that's what you think or not, but this makes me quite uneasy and that's hurting how I'm feeling this game a little, so I'm inviting questions from all comers, for the best interests of myself as well as you all.

... by the way I hate long posts.

[The MM]

nio

saying that your just "prodding" sombody makes the whole vote useless

Not 100% true. Of course, saying so means you have no actual reason to respond, but I suppose you can figure out what

not

responding to prodding means. I mean,

you

're the SE, not me.

(WARNING: Don't take this as some sort of personal attack. I'm just making myself look like a smartass.)

I'm suspecting HBG of not quite putting his money where his mouth is, but until I get some word from Spinlock I am

not

moving my vote.

[The MM]

Weeeelp... I shot a lot down the trust charts, didn't I?
Spinlock, I apologize for sounding offensive, but I don't know any persons that are not a he or she. But whatever. It has nothing to do with the game, though I just might have difficulties referring to one person as "they".
I think I'll take your points one by one.

-

"In #71, MM suggests that the reason he is playing strangely is due to "the meta change".

" I've already played like 15 games and hosted 3, just... somewhere else. It's not about the meta, it's about the players.
-

"I'm still trying to reason out his "I'm a VT" slip in #71."

This is not a VT claim, and 300% not a slip. I was saying that it's better playing like a VT

regardless of actual role

.
-

"On re-read, the tone of his posts changes from #51 to #71. Things become much more defensive in the later posts, especially in response to my statements about him in #66."

I completely fail to see the change of tone, just opinions starting to exist and my usual making a jerk out of myself starting to rear its head... What do you consider as dfefensive in this post?
-

"It's difficult for me to address MM's #97 neutrally. I do not want to say directly "this post is a personal attack" but, ugh."

Sorry about that if I came across as offensive to you, but that happens sometimes. For the sake of elaboration, in a certain other forum I just happened to have massive issues with a certain person like this who was actually shifty as hell and that didn't end really well for me. This is absolutely not about you, but flashbacking to these times might have caused an outburst of incorrectness.
-

"#97 feels to me like an attempt to deflect suspicion onto other players (myself, aa-dono, fancypants all named specifically) while repairing his image with the town -- but the post itself is insubstantial. Nothing about this post puts pressure on anyone; there's no defensible claim being made against me other than "they might be a hydra" (which I am not). That's not paranoia; that's a way to find an excuse to vote for someone else to make a big show of rooting out scum."

Actually, you're kind of right: I am trying to deflect suspicion, but the major thing, despite the looks, is that I'm just trying to deflect it off of me. The only suspicion I've been directing towards you, aa-dono and fancypants are my own. Heck, I'm not even this suspicious of you, actually. The only thing I would ask of you would be "are you scum or not?", but so far I have no reason to think you are. So that would be a "do you trust me?", but I think from the short argument that you don't. I might think I'm completely blind to other people's vibes and social cues.

---

The news and not-so-news:

-

Accountant

is the same IC since the beginning of the game, questioning nearly everything and everyone. I'm having a harder and harder time not townreading her-- er... them..?-- I'll go with the avatar and say her.
-

Spinlock

seems difficult for me to analyze, if only because responding like one doesn't have a thing to be asked ever will not entice a good reaction. I would've liked at least a reason for the ambiguous gender.
-

GL

and

PrivateI

seem to be at the very least decent players, but somehow they're also being remarkably not that town-readable to me.
-

aa-dono

and

Fancypants

are still making no contribution, with

aa-dono

not responding to prodding...
-

robbylet2

swings opinions at the drop of a hat. He might just not be this off-the-hook...
-

HBG

's #104 feels very scumbaggy to me, or at the very least a bunch more smartass than I am. As GL's #107 points out, there is no reason to not only point this out, but not reacting to prodding is for two kinds of persons, inactives and scum.
From this list with everything sorted ambiguously by order of trust, I decide now to VOTE: HBG.

---

A little fact for people who didn't understand that from clues: I am not a social person. While not officially treated as mentally-diseased, I've found myself socially awkward and anxious, especially when interacting with unknown people. I fill quite a few of the criteria for Asperger's Syndrome and I often get slapped with autism, with this relatively recent occurrence:

if you're going to be a miserable autist when creating the game's rules, at least be consistent about enforcing them

I am disrespectful at times and this was already shown, so I'm not even asking for respect, just asking you to let me play the game with you. Call me scumbag and call me trash, I don't care (yet), I'm just trying my hardest, but we are playing the game from different perspectives. Deal with it.

---

Here, have a good read.

[The MM]

I especially want to hear GL's thoughts on Spinlock's post about MM

I think Spinlock's post looked extremely town, I doubt newbscum could fake 114. Particularly this point:

#97 feels to me like an attempt to deflect suspicion onto other players (myself, aa-dono, fancypants all named specifically) while repairing his image with the town -- but the post itself is insubstantial. Nothing about this post puts pressure on anyone; there's no defensible claim being made against me other than "they might be a hydra" (which I am not). That's not paranoia; that's a way to find an excuse to vote for someone else to make a big show of rooting out scum.

This is exactly how I felt about 97. MM votes Spinlock with an extremely contrived reason, then within the same post says he "means no harm by the vote" and that "another target" is Fancypants. I don't get the sense he's genuinely trying to discern people's motives or alignment.

This vote was never driven by paranoia; I don't know if I said it. Paranoia is more the cause of me not trusting anyone. Heck, one of my reasons for voting Spinlock was that perhaps I could soft-townread and trust them. That failed.
As for referring to Fancypants as a target, well, every vote is targeted, isn't it? I certainly didn't think any further because any other way of saying that would've been thousands of times more convoluted.
As for the discerning people's motives, well, since I'm afraid I'm blind to quite a few clues that you see, you're entirely right. I'm only trying to get soft-reads on alignment since motives can easily be twisted (look at how just a prod from me turned into a scum randomly voting in hopes of getting someone eliminated -- as said by PrivateI very early on, what are even the odds of that succeeding?).

I'd also like to reiterate my question since I do not believe MM addressed it:

@The MM

AFAIK it's our role as the town to make everyone feel pressured and see who snaps. With these weeks, town can force motion - mostly by vote pressure - and find out scum to root out. I've already told I was waiting for an occasion to pressure someone else.

Why did you say you were 'waiting for an occasion to pressure someone'?

Wait... you're right, I didn't. I was busy being distracted by all the useless longposting I was making. Here's for you: as the following attack on Spinlock proved, pressure is useless if there's nothing at all backing it. Hence the "waiting". Pressure needs a crack or a mistake to back itself up and elicit a response that brings anything to the table. Otherwise the entire concept falls to pieces.

[The MM]

There's no need to criticize yourself, MM.

As far as chasing scum goes, no it doesn't. I'm just trying to make amends by putting my flaws to light before moving on because I feel like we've spent ages talking about me.

aa-dono

not responding to prodding...

I wasn't prod though T___T
I have really bad connection recently and informed our host/mod earlier.
I couldn't even cast my vote the other day.
VOTE: PrivateI
Sorry guys, I will request replacement.

Apologies for the insult, though I don't get what this vote is supposed to accomplish... Best of luck in the foreseeable future.

[The MM]

I need to hear HBG's thoughts before I consider doing anyone else.
Please, friends, ISO him. You will be appalled at what you find.

I don't know if there's a quick and reliable way to ISO him, but hey, what would I do, vote him? Oh wait.

Fancypants looks just like vote bait and an easy scapegoat by now, plus we won't get any reaction until he shows up again. I think voting FP is a bad move for the time being.

[The MM]

OK, lets see how my deliberate lurking strat paid out. And yes, I was AWOL on purpose.
Because only scum really targets lurkers. Or scum are lurkers. It’s a deep web

I'm not targeting you

only

because you are a lurker. It's also because you have promised the contrary, with massive post, scumread on 3 people, etc.

We have Fancypants12, PrivateI, The MM all voting for me.
I see a buddy in fancypants and the MM. I honestly think either of them could be scum. There trying to move the wagon onto me.

That's not a thing, I assure you. Last I checked, Fancypants is more a lurker than you, and if you come off clean, I'd move my vote to Fancypants by default.

If you cant see that you’re a fool, I am being voted on for pure lack of posting [...]

Sounds a lot like something I would say, except flat-out calling people fools won't get you any friends.

I apologise for this, I haven’t posted enough, stuff comes up. I am sorry.
I may have to actually sub out of this game, but I will try my hardest not too if all goes well.
My lack of posting is not fair on you guys. So again I apologise.

I think, if you were already having a hard time logging on at all,

why

did you of all things deliberately lurk? You do know that this is only voluntarily hindering communication, which is town's greatest asset as far as I'm concerned.
Still, hope this "stuff" won't take too much of your time. Good luck.

[The MM]

But the same can be said of HBG, and you're voting HBG. What's with the hypocrisy? Because that looks awfully like you're trying to protect FP by jumping on the counterwagon and then telling everyone to get off FP.
In fact, that theory is strengthened by the fact that you have, as others have said, been searching for very farfetched reasons to vote people, as though you're trying to start a wagon anywhere but fancypants. What do you have to say to this?

Can you answer this question, MM?

I don't feel like I've really been trying to avoid Fancypants. Really, right now FP would be my #2 lynch target. Just, voting an inactive has little purpose because it won't prompt answers, and there's the fact that I feel more bothered with HBG right now.
Unlike FP, HBG has been posting -- and oddly enough, the little he says is the extra that ticks me, because he kinda didn't deliver and then our favourite Seth the Kid started completely flying off the handle.

[The MM]

ISO HBG and then go back to #52 because you need to go all the way back there to ISO FP.

FP said

squat

, while the latest from HBG is nearly disturbing to me.

[The MM]

[...] while MM has said numerous suspicious things, and has honestly either been inactive or shifty [...]

Then I musta been pretty much 100% shifty considering I posted at least once per day. ISO me and check, that's true.

Heck, by number of posts (please acknowledge that this logic is flawed), I have more posts than everyone but Accountant (IC) and robby (with 34 posts in that topic). While I'm aware that not all of these posts contain balls-deep analysis of other people's games, this is the thing I'm trying to learn here in the first place.

So far, the game is slowing down, and I don't really like this. I hope the day doesn't end by no-lynch, but the day-1-scumlynch dream looks far far away; so it might actually be for the best. Still, HBG has given me no reason to unvote him, so unless I see something I'm staying where I am on the fence.

[The MM]

I hope the day doesn't end by no-lynch, but

the day-1-scumlynch dream looks far far away

; so it might actually be for the best.

what makes you say this?

For the bolded-and-colored statement, the fact that none of us seem to be agreeing on who is scummiest. Mostly because there are different reads running around.
For the following, the fact that it's better to lynch nobody than to lynch a townie.

If these answers are not elaborate enough, please feel free to ask me more.

[The MM]

For the bolded-and-colored statement, the fact that none of us seem to be agreeing on who is scummiest. Mostly because there are different reads running around.

But why does that make you think we aren't likely to lynch scum? A consensus is impossible most of the time because:
a) everyone has their own reads and approaches to the game
b) scum generally aren't going to agree with lynching one of their own, and also like to take up different opinions than the rest of town to cause confusion
What does a D1 scumlynch look like to you in terms of everyone's reads and agreement on who is the scummiest, and why is that not what we're seeing here?

Well, if we all can't agree on who is scum, it means we have no sure clue on who the scum is, relying more on imprecise intel (reads) than precise intel (revealed facts). Naturally since noone has a hard scumread.

The MM

(Low Confidence, Suspicious)

In my previous readslist I was suspicious of MM. Then, in my #114, I became more suspicious and went into some detail describing my feelings about MM's paranoia. My suspicions are not completely gone yet, but I think MM's #130 clears up a few things. Having had a chance to look over his voting patterns (see below), he's putting pressure on a lot of different people, and I'm coming around to the idea that this is his way of getting reads and provoking responses.

I want to say, you've got me. Everything I've done, I've done it to clear things up, because this is -- a bit dumbly said -- how a town wins.

I do agree with him in #140 that voting Fancypants is a bad move -- yes, lynching someone who's not contributing to discussion might be justified if there are no better targets, but I think at the point where #140 was posted, several targets were in plain view (robbylet, MM himself, HBG).

While LAL is a very default lynch policy, I personally don't like it due to bringing very little information no mater how the lynchee flips.

HBG sees a buddy in MM and Fancypants. Let's look into this a little bit further. The only thing fancypants said involving The MM is in #52, where he suggests that MM could be feigning paranoia to seem like a townie. Meanwhile, MM has put pressure, at one point or another, on all of the following people: PrivateI, robbylet, Spinlock, HBG, and Fancypants. This leaves Accountant, aa-dono, and GuiltyLion as people he's not actively gone after, and Fancypants under the least amount of pressure by far. In #71 he mentions that "Fancypants, aa-dono, and GuiltyLion" are too inactive for him to interact with. In #140 he says "Fancypants looks just like vote bait...voting FP is a bad move", which, as I explained above, I believe is a reasonable point. My conclusion is that, barring any difficulty I've had in reading Fancypants due to his lack of material, I don't see any connection between MM and Fancypants.

I think me and Fancypants being buddies is kinda troll-logic at this point. Really, my reads on him are completely zero, and if he's scum -- which I highly doubt just so you know -- he must be posting uniquely in the scum topic.

The one thing I cannot find a reason for is his inattention to GuiltyLion, who isn't as inactive as some of the other people on his list.

MM, do you have anything to say about, or ask, GuiltyLion at this point in the discussion?

Time for your kind of read:

GuiltyLion

(Low Confidence, Likely Town):

I'm not confident in my ability to read people. That, and GL has been remarkably concise -- and brevity is wit. Honestly, to me there is no bad move in all he's done and all is done in sound logic.
I kinda feel like he has a common point with me -- the unwillingness to make mistakes primarily -- even though I ended up running my mouth and looking suspicious while he talks little and remains more-or-less a townread.
To me, he's town until something comes up that says otherwise.

[The MM]

Well, if we all can't agree on who is scum, it means we have no sure clue on who the scum is, relying more on imprecise intel (reads) than precise intel (revealed facts). Naturally since noone has a hard scumread.

There are no revealed facts D1, so this applies the moment the mod started the game. Why do you think the fact that there is no revealed facts means we can't scumhunt?

It's not that we can't scumhunt per se -- heck, this is what we've all been doing, each one of us in their own way.
The fact is, we'll never know whose reads are right. We don't have hard-scumreads on anyone because scum has not completely cracked, so everyone's idea of who's the scumteam is different (likely). Meaning that few of us actually have one scum pinned down.

I'll just say that I've already (accidentally) RC'd.

Are you sure you consider that a claim? Felt more like a joke cracked at me tbh.

[The MM]

Okay: I feel the need to post my readslist. Nowhere near as reliable as other people's readslists; really looks like they got their act together better than me. It's unlikely I die this night, but in the case I do...

---

aa-dono

: Zero Read

Never spoke over 4 lines in the same posts, voting counted out. Fact is, she's requesting a replacement, so well...

Accountant

: Low-Tier Read, Town

The only reason I have to doubt Accountant is that IC thing. Meaning that however town Accountant's play usually gets (minus the forgetful incident involving aa-dono), I can't really place my trust blindly. I'm sure the scumteam is going to kill Accountant before Day 3 -- if they don't do it as early as this night. There are a lot of concise answer-posts, and a bunch of elaborate reasoning posts. I just don't want to get lulled into a false sense of security.

Edgedancer

: Bottom-Tier Read, Town

#167 and #168 make sense, though really, this doesn't mean too much right now. It's just blending in with the town.

GuiltyLion

: Lower-Tier Read, Town

Like I said before, GL has been brief but efficient in conveying his thoughts through his posts. He's been poking around and all-in-all never made a slip. By the last argument with me, I think he's even trying to keep town morale high -- or so it seems.

Heyboxgaminig

: Low-Tier Read, Scum

All-around, once the chillness intro was over, to me HBG's play has been quite honestly a letdown. Delaying his readslists, little amounts of posting, and even his apology had "reasons" interspersed onto it which made him look either scummy or indecisive to me. His #144 looks a lot like flailing and trying his hardest to capitalize on my suspiciousness.

PrivateI

: Confused

So far, PrivateI seems pretty chill with some burst of ugly-fact-pointing directed at HBG. The Donald Trump reference was a bit of lolz, but kinda unnecessary even though it all cuts right back into his then-to-be punch in the face ("ISO him, you'll be appalled"). My opinion on his alignment entirely depends on how HBG flips -- though I'm still a tiny bit unwilling to see PrivateI as scum.

Robbylet2

: Mid-Tier Read, Really Newb with Ambiguous Alignment

His early-game was horrid, but I think the mass of votes he had kinda proved it. All his posts were extremely short (less than one line for his

22

first posts as far as my screen is concerned). To me, he talks terse as hell. The hasty vote on me in #127 was insanely bad though, and mainly just served to write "I'M A HOTHEAD" on robby's forehead. While I've been really politically incorrect, this had little to do with the actual game when I get back to it. The Spinlock sheeping might just help to dig himself as far as my trust in him is concerned, but Spinlock has a consistent readslist.

Spinlock

: No Alignment Discerned

Spinlock got off to a good start with a "readslist" on third post. At #113 he kinda seemed to me that they got off so easy I wanted something to go by at all costs. Taking personal bias in the picture was a bad move of me and got me nothing about Spinlock. Really, everything is a solid move, but it could've been a solid move from scum, so nothing tells me "Spinlock is town".

The MM

(yes, I'm trying to read myself, sue me): Confused

Early posts feel really hesitant -- flailing around with voting and not voting. Up to #47, it was lot of telling their own life story. (Somehow I can't call myself "him" but I can say "them". Spinlock, please kill me.)
#71 was a literal wall of text. The "I'm a VT" stuck in the middle of it feels a lot like a newbie claim, but the next post explains the intended mindset at the time. That's where things start to get shady.
Next's

dat politically-incorrect Attack on Spinlock tho

. While asking for others' reads on oneself is usually town-ish, just after this drop in opinion it feels tacked-on; it really feels like "heyo i effed up, please let me repair my image". On top of that, few even followed, which won't help a bit.
#118 is self-explanation and self-criticism. #130 is really defensive. Both bring little to the table. #140 is mostly trying to force people into the opinion of "everyone tunnel on HBG like I did". #157 seems to be trying to get the morale down, which is usually a Mafia thing to do. Weird.

---

Here we go. I've trying to count myself looking back on posts as a different person than myself back at post time, hope it works. Were I someone else, I could get suspicious of how I've played so far. Here you have it.

[The MM]

Really, everything is a solid move, but it could've been a solid move from scum, so nothing tells me "Spinlock is town".

The same can be said for me as well, so why am I being townread while Spinlock is null?

Also, I notice you don't have high confidence in any of your reads despite nearly a fortnight of active discussion. Why is this?

General low confidence in reads, especially my own.

[The MM]

Forgot to respond to the first, more interesting part: I read you as town more because of how much more extensive your actions are by comparison and I felt at least part of your actions driven more by town interest than "scientific" logic.

[The MM]

also MM - what is the benefit of providing a read on yourself? When you self-assess your own play, no one can fundamentally trust that because we don't know your alignment. Even if you flip town and we can look back on it later, it's useless at that point because we'll already know your alignment. And you're picking out things that you think might mean you are scum. I don't know why you felt compelled to do that, what was the goal?

It was mostly there to see what I - trying to be an impartial person - would think of myself in retrospective. It did lead me to understand in part why I'm not as trusted as I'd like to. Placing that into words was more or less the only way to get that through my thick head -- add to that, I considerably trimmed the length I had there.

Darn on the replacement for HBG. Kinda throws the later part of this day to hell, considering that we lost a bunch of time tunneling on HBG and FP who both have/had to be replaced. Replacements are not easy to deal with. :/

[The MM]

It was mostly there to see what I - trying to be an impartial person - would think of myself in retrospective. It did lead me to understand in part why I'm not as trusted as I'd like to. Placing that into words was more or less the only way to get that through my thick head -- add to that, I considerably trimmed the length I had there.

Then why tell us? Just write it down on notepad or something.

You would never know that I had conclusions drawn, hadn't I been open about that.

And it seems now HBG is lynched. Lessee what it'll give us.

[The MM]

It's funny how I turned into jailkeeper bait. Why not? I'm okay with this.

And still it's odd noone dies.

If I were Doctor, I would've targeted Accountant last night. If I were Jailkeeper, welp, I would probably have targeted Accountant too.

My pick would be that everyone tunnel-visioned on Accountant super duper-hard and the NK failed because Doctor/. Might just not be that of course, but I have to say this might've been the case from Mafia expecting the Doc to predict a not-Accountant NK because "Accountant is too obvious so we can kill anyone else for free". Basically, yomi happened to the town's "favor".

Without a kill, the only thing we have is, again, pressure and communication.

I feel tempted to trust GuiltyLion due to his post, but that's temptations I resist for now.

[The MM]

I don't really get what you mean by "feel tempted to trust GuiltyLion". It's not like he's saying " townread me for candy... you know you want to". For me, I felt that post was more likely to come from town than mafia, so my estimation of him being town increased a slight bit. It's as simple as that.

It's just because on impulse, reading this post is kinda "townread-me candy" as you said, especially considering it did kickstart day 2 so to say. Let's just say it appealed to my emotions, but not my reason.
But really, I'd trust you first, even though GL did make an effort to lead discussion and I'll take that into account, just not as full-on overboard as I felt like upon first read.

My Doctor target would have probably been Accountant, while my jailkeeping target would have likely been Spinlock.

Interesting. I'm unsure why you would jail Spinlock; I mean, Spinlock happens to be more an eventual doctor target for others. Does that actually mean you are suspicious of Spinlock or does that mean that you wouldn't want to keep Accountant down?

[The MM]

MM is scum, I'm voting him right now.

VOTE: THEMM

Before anything else, I would like to say that robby sheeps faster than I make myself look suspicious as hell.
To be frank, this post is just as full of bull as my groundless attack on Spinlock. Saying "X is scum" like it's fact, with no proof, along with your volatileness will only make me suspect you in the long run.
Now, robby, it's not amicable, but it's a piece of advice: stop instantly flaring up the moment an easy vote target appears, you only make yourself look like an idiot. Thank you.

I apologize for not posting yesterday, but I find that better than speaking a lot for nothing and I have a bunch of things to attend to.

Now for certain points:

Scum candidates:
Edgedancer. Replaced in and hasn't said much.

So far, he said a few truths that I wanted to state and kinda came to my defense, so of course I'm guilty of subjectiveness. His complete disappearance after #168 though... it's making things hard.

The MM. Weird, erratic behavior, which I'm finding harder and harder to wave off as paranoia. Stuff like that terrible push on Spinlock Day 1, fencesitting his entire reads list, null reading

himself

(!) as an "objective outsider" (could be an attempt to influence our thinking?), being famously reluctant to hand out townreads and then townreading Edge based on two not very special posts, right after people floated around the theory of a MM-Fancypants association(who Edge replaced into).

The paranoia phase is kinda over now that I'm finding my marks in here. I'm still very reluctant to trust people and stuff because that's how I am.
The push on Spinlock was terrible and I only wanted to receive a townread. Pushing is how town wins. (Of course, I had to do it all wrong.) I think I already explained myself for this one didn't I?
Same as trying to read myself -- that was trying to put myself in the shoes of the rest of the town so I could understand why I looked so suspicious, because of course, I'm the most blatant townie to myself just like every single one of you all.
As for my townread on Edgedancer, while his posts were not very special, I felt the little effort as town, though now this read is "old" and off the mark seeing as it's like 40+ posts old on a read that ends up having little weight and being short-term.

Spinlock: You haven't said anything active(pressuring scumreads, pushing game along, asking questions) and have only answered when directly talked to. You and GL are my top townreads, don't fall into the trap of coasting as a universal townread. What do you think about the idea of forming a town bloc together?

• I want to shed a bit of my thoughts on this post and this idea of "townbloc":
• Centering the town on a few people into a three-people blob like that goes halfway through nulling the influence of the rest of the town, as without these three people, town cannot scumlynch for the love of Chuck Norris.
• This is of course assuming the three persons in this blob are all townies to begin with, as in all games I've seen, at least one "confirmed townie" -- here a component of this "townblob" -- was actually a scum weaseling their way through the game. Heck, I've done this one myself!

Of course, demoralizing speeches are usually a beloved weapon of scum, but in all the cases I've described, scum wins anyway because they either influence the town's main source of pressure or can just deny any scumlynch. There's also the fact that I don't like being led around by the nose, and in hindsight this is what this situation forces on me. Add to that another thing, that being that the victory has little taste if it was handed by a bunch of three people doing all the work for you, and I would feel horrible as a player if I let people win the game for me while I just try to cling to a townie image.
Accountant might be my hardest townread in the game, but town should stay wary of this "townbloc", well, blocking the game and not being very town.

This is a warning to the entire town: don't let Accountant play the game for you.

I feel driven to antagonize this idea. Accountant, you of all people should realize that letting Spinlock in a townbloc like this only allows them to, you know, do exactly what you're saying they shouldn't do: lurk and let you do all the work.

But [...] The MM has already acknowledged his behavior was [...] due to his poor social skills rather than any alignment-indicative factor.

"Poor" social skills. I like that. Truth is more like "absence of social skills".
Also, before you start portraying me as a victim, know that I'll remain unapologetic unless I make a serious misstep like in the case of Spinlock. When I think about it, Robby is clinging to old feelings and sheeping to scumflag me, and for the memo I hate being toe-stubbed with a scumflag this meaningless. VOTE: Robbylet

[The MM]

Well, just be a bloc of townies like that is basically NK-bait to me, because there's 33% chance we don't have a Doctor or a Jailkeeper. Though one of the two outcomes is impossible since there would be no way to have none dying at Night, meaning we're sure not to have drawn the second column of the matrix (Captain Obvious).

Still, that's counting on the Doctor/JK to focus on a bunch of three.

As for insane things, well... I've seen and done insane things.

[The MM]

Also, extra setup speculation: Matrix6 (read nao) setups that would've allowed a NK dodge.

-

1

: It only includes a JK, so either the JK targeted the scum that would've made the kill, or the target.
-

2

: The Roleblocker failed to hit the Doctor and he did his thing. They might have hit the Cop though..?
-

3

: Only the BP can avoid a NK in this case, so the only outcome in this case is that they tried to hit the BP.
-

A

: There's the JK, Roleblocker and BP, there would be a lot of odds to throw considering this means town has 2 defensive PRs (considering JK can protect townies from NKs by either jailing them or jailing scum).
-

B

: It's simply impossible that we are in this setup considering that noon died night 1, and the only way to do that is that scum would've psyched us by not NKing Night 1.
-

C

: In this case, this mean the Doctor just had the kill target and has a confirmed townie.

Now let's draw conclusions for town PRs: If you are a...
-

Jailkeeper:

There's a 50% chance that you made a clinch save by either targeting the scum or the target. There's a 50% chance that you weren't all that important and they hit a BP though, which also makes you vulnerable to a future roleblock.
-

Cop:

Yes, you know something even if you're a Cop. If you're a Cop and the NK got dodged you know a Doctor hit right. Which leads me to:
-

Doctor:

You hit the right target. Meaning you have a confirmed townie.
-

1-Shot Bulletproof

: You know scum tried to shoot you. There's 50% chance we have a Tracker, in which case it's useless. There's also 50% chance that there's a Jailkeeper who saved someone. If you know your BP was not popped and the kill still failed, you know there's a JK. Then read the JK tab.
-

Tracker:

You know that either scum popped a BP or the Doctor hit right.

Still, whatever conclusions you draw, do yourself a favor and DON'T REVEAL! You don't want the scum to trace your role and thus foil Town PRs with more ease, much less pinpoint and kill you, the PR.

[The MM]

To be perfectly honest, I think me and Spinlock are already NK-bait, as shown by the fact that most players said they would doc either me or them if they were doctor.

Calcs tiem!

Docbaits:

Spinlock:

2:

Accountant, SmokingBianco

Accountant

4:

Robbylet, GuiltyLion, PrivateI, The MM

GuiltyLion:

1:

Spinlock

Jailbaits (yeah I did write that):

The MM:

4:

Accountant, Robbylet, Spinlock, SmokingBianco

Edgedancer:

1:

GuiltyLion

Spinlock:

1:

PrivateI

Accountant:

1:

The MM

Didn't speak their mind:

Edgedancer

(LAL is making eyes at me but I'll pass.)

---

I'll try to mesh my 2 posts together and draw the most likely (imo) setup we have.

[The MM]

MM is scum, I'm voting him right now.

VOTE: THEMM

Now, robby, it's not amicable, but it's a piece of advice: stop instantly flaring up the moment an easy vote target appears, you only make yourself look like an idiot. Thank you.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I consider this an offensive attack on my intelligence rather than any kind of logical argument.

I'm torn between which I don't like more: The MM's continual self-deprecation ("I'm an easy vote target...woe is me") or Robby's poor deflection of a relatively legitimate criticism.

I'm not meaning to sound like I'm complaining about anything. As for the "attack", I warned people that I was a major jerkface at times. Props to robby for not taking this one into account, complete with near-literally saying "this guy is scum, LYNCH MM". The logical argument here is "cool your head, rookie". Before you start feeling belittled and getting angry again -- please consider that I treat myself as more intelligent for the sole reason that my posts are longer than one non-quoted line, and you nearly never elaborate on your arguments, neither do you post analysis. I feel no real drive to even play the game from you. Now, while I hate you without a shadow of doubt, I'm still not convinced you're scum. Not that I'll take my vote off of you until I find someone else scummier or I feel the need to prod Edgedancer or Bianco.

The MM, if you don't suspect Accountant at all, why in the world WOULDN'T we trust him implicitly, for the time being?

Why won't I trust Accountant? Because I don't want to assume Accountant is town while there's a chance that s/he isn't. This would be a critical mistake, and even though Accountant is our towniest asset, it's how you seize control of public opinion.

Because he's extremely paranoid.

While I feel that this is sarcasm to the nines, this

is

my playstyle at the moment: full DTA -- Don't Trust Anybody.
I'll let you form this townbloc (mostly because robby and Spinlock), but I will remain entitled to my opinions and as vocal as I need to be, because town needs to remain vocal anyway. So sure, let this thing exist, but we better make sure that this bloc isn't too cohesive -- or at least not at the expense of other town parties. Also, since I've taken my marks a bit, I'm a bit more easy into the game, meaning the realer and uglier aspects of me can start outshining my social anxiety problems.

---

Analyzing the two posts of mine above, seems there's a 40% chance that we got a JK, meaning that there's around a 22.85% chance that I was put to jail -- meaning 11.425% that I'm scum who performed the NK (ah, crud) and 11.425% that I got protected from a NK. (Only newbscum would kill someone like me, seeing as the town seems willing to consider lynching me -- look at robby. This doesn't help my case, now does it?) Of course, this doesn't take into account setup A, where there is a 1-shot BP that would avoid the kill -- this once. Keep in mind, if someone knows there's no JK in the game, they know I'm nowhere near this likely to be scum.
There are also 40% chance that we have a doctor rather than a JK, in which case there is also 22.85% chance that Accountant got protected from a NK...
Which covers nearly half the possibilities. The remaining 20% is of course setup 3, where we'd be sure they hit the BP anyway.

---

PS:

Zaicon, you keep noting Fancypants12 in the vote tally after replacement, please fix this. Thank you.

[The MM]

Welp, that'll be an

unvote

. While robby's self-defense is horribad at telling me he's not scum, I'll let the poor person that replaced him a chance.
It's time I go take a cool drink.

I love robby's departure message. It's like he's saying he's a cop who investigated me. If he was a Cop, we'd be in setup 2, with a Cop, a Doctor and a Roleblocker.
Given that the higher chances of survival comes with a setup that doesn't include a Cop (though of course a Doctor protection on Accountant had a big chance of occuring), I hope it's understandable that I don't trust a flat-out alignment tell like this.

I kinda want to hear from BlacleWorks to get on a new page.

Also, why's Zaicon prodding GuiltyLion while Edgedancer is nearly 80 posts away. Blargh. VOTE: Edgedancer

[The MM]

The MM, Edgedancer could be on V/LA, which makes prods slower.

Oh, he was already prodded? I don't recall seeing that... Nevermind then, I suppose.

[The MM]

Nearly a triple post, but whatever, I'll be trying to make a vote tally myself.

Vote Count:

The MM (2):

Accountant, BlacleWorks

(that is, if robby's vote remains after replacement)

Edgedancer (2):

PrivateI, The MM

No Vote (4):

Edgedancer, GuiltyLion, RadiantCowbells, Spinlock

I think that's it. I'm taking a bit more time to try and read.

[The MM]

After reading the game this far Here are some thing that pinged my "scumdar." Posting my reads next.

Wow, this scumdar pops faster than mine!

As to answer to the points you made regarding me...

White knighting?

Spoiler: Supporting Evidence

I honestly don't know what to say to make you suspect me less. It seems everything i say digs my hole deeper.

The MMs Response:

In your situation, I wouldn't know either. I like to think that gambitting in the first place is usually a mistake. Even if you went scum-fishing now, people would suspect you of trying to find a magnet to distract the town aggro to. Still, as Accountant said, trying to read between the lines and get more insight on who actually might be scum could dig you out of this, maybe..?

'scuse me, but... what?
If I were white-knighting for robby, you'd think I wouldn't trash-talk him the next day, wouldn't you?

(If you would, you would still be wrong anyway.)

Early sheeping. To fly under the radar? or to look town by association? I doubt this stems confusion, this slot seems aware of his movement.

Spoiler: Supporting Evidence

As far as parroting Accountant goes... well yes, I admit of being guilty of massive IC pandering (if I can call it that) since Accountant has been leading the way for now, kinda-sorta. And if you can't beat them, join them. Since finding a hole in Accountant's logic this far kinda has little point.

Antagonizing Accountant had little point at this point anyway.

Began by sheeping, was called on it and pulled out. And then discourages town block from forming. Seems to be a mafia oriented movement.

Spoiler: Supporting Evidence

Of course, demoralizing speeches are usually a beloved weapon of scum, but in all the cases I've described, scum wins anyway because they either influence the town's main source of pressure or can just deny any scumlynch. There's also the fact that I don't like being led around by the nose, and in hindsight this is what this situation forces on me. Add to that another thing, that being that the victory has little taste if it was handed by a bunch of three people doing all the work for you, and I would feel horrible as a player if I let people win the game for me while I just try to cling to a townie image.
Accountant might be my hardest townread in the game, but town should stay wary of this "townbloc", well, blocking the game and not being very town. This is a warning to the entire town: don't let Accountant play the game for you.
I feel driven to antagonize this idea. Accountant, you of all people should realize that letting Spinlock in a townbloc like this only allows them to, you know, do exactly what you're saying they shouldn't do: lurk and let you do all the work.

It's bad experiences shaping into bias yet again, but when I think about it, nowhere do we have any sort of confirmation about anyone being town, plus it promotes more braindeadness from the rest of the town. The only thing this is good for is the attempt at focusing scumfire and doctor actions from a few day, but this is only adding another layer to the mindgems scum can play.
Plus, what would you do if I were to form a townbloc with a pair of people who still trust me but not you. It's not good for me as a player, like personally, and it's not teaching anyone how to play.

I definitely agree about MM's play today. I don't like his movement from buddying Accountant, to being assured that Robby is scum, to cautioning us that Accountant might be scum, to believing that Robby isn't scum.
P-Edit: That's where I'm thinking as well, but I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

You misunderstood me. I utterly fail to see how I'm buddying Accountant (considering Accountant

doesn't trust me

as of last check). As for being assured that Robby is scum, it's the same, I never said he was scum anywhere; I recall saying he was

bad

, though. Then cautioning that Accountant might be scum, well Accountant has just as much chance as the rest of us to be scum until facts say otherwise (though if I'm ever sure there is a doc in the game and they protected Accountant, I have a confirmed Townie), so it's only a warning against braindeadly sheeping. As for believing that robby isn't scum, last I checked I never said he was scum in the first place, except by my vote, which was partway retaliatory and partway staying towards my strongest scumread, however old.

@The MM:

1) Why are you voting for Edgedancer?

Mainly so that we get a word outta him. Putting some pressure might help with that.
Nice of you to write my name in red so that everyone knows you think I'm a scumbag by the way.

My read on BlacleWorks:

I love you too

null with a chance of scum, weak read

While Blacle brings new things to the table -- the only one actually arguing against Accountant, a bit of activity with all the active prodding -- I don't like the vibe of these posts.
Calling quick-interpretation reads "evidence", heck, flat-out putting me and Spinlock on the same scumteam (which kinda looks ridiculous as I wouldn't have brought that to the public if I was scum, I would've asked all of this in private, not in topic). Overall, this seems like sowing confusion for the heck of it, a scum plot.
Add to that I have a strong gut feeling that asks me to go up against Blacle; though I'll separate that from scumtells.

1. So, Blacle. If you like to ask so many questions, how about you take some?
   
2. What makes you think that I could be in the same scumteam as Spinlock?
   
3. What makes you think crumb fishing is scummy? Last I checked, the more information is public, the less heavy the advantage scum have gets.
   
4. What makes you townread RadiantCowbells out of nowhere?
   
5. What arguments would you have against "the scum team is Blacle and RC we got this in the bag"?
   (Please mind that this argument is troll; and rest assured, it's nowhere near my actual opinion.)

[The MM]

My thinking is that there is definitely at least one scum on the mislynch wagon yesterday, so I'm looking there. PrivateI and Accountant look town to me, which leaves MM and Edgedancer.

Excuse me? I think HBG looked pretty scummy, and let's be real, everyone on the wagon thought so. I don't see why you'd blame me in particular, especially considering Accountant pulled the hammer (was that really a derphammer, now that I'm thinking about it...?), you were the first to vote him and you even voted him "again" after I came in at that. PrivateI parked relatively early (at least earlier then me).

That said, I found 247 the scummiest post in the game so far:

Before I go I will leave you with this. MM is scum. That's my only real read so far.

I love robby's departure message.

It's like he's saying he's a cop who investigated me

. If he was a Cop, we'd be in setup 2, with a Cop, a Doctor and a Roleblocker.
Given that the higher chances of survival comes with a setup that doesn't include a Cop (though of course a Doctor protection on Accountant had a big chance of occuring), I hope it's understandable that I don't trust a flat-out alignment tell like this.

I can't grok why town!MM would say this. If he were town and investigated, he'd be cleared.
I don't think robbylet is a cop with a guilty on MM here, because I think he would have explicitly said so if that were the case, but I do think MM

thinks

a cop could get a guilty on him, and so is trying to pre-emptively discredit the robby slot.
VOTE: TheMM

You're spinning this.
The "result" was already pre-ordained anyway, so why would I take the slightest care to mention a guilty ping? He acted like he had one anyway.
Who likes to be finger-pointed and screamed "YOU'RE GUILTY!" at, I ask you.

---

Now I'm getting to not clear my head between posts, all because I got too involved. Pish.
I should take a break -- or not, seeing as this is a scum thing to do, right?
So I'll stay there and answer questions...
...and keeping an eye on the guys trying to scumflag me: robby's off-the-hook permanently (what with getting replaced), but GL is not (I just read over #86 and while you were saying that the game had been going for a very long time, considering I was used to days ending in less than three real-life days, it had; I hadn't grasped this when trying to analyze you in #176; making GL THE ONLY PERSON to try and throw suspicions on me, aside from robby's "MM is scum lollolololo11111ONE", and more lately Blacle who - need I remind people - replaced robby [which creates the possibilities of all of robby's missteps being caused by eagerness to scumwin thus forcing Blacle to "try looking like a townie while actually screwing town over" with a scumcard]).

---

222For the null-reading myself, it wasn't a null-read, it was the contrary, a "very swingy" read.

---

237I'm not "extremely paranoid", I'm "autistic with paranoid tendencies and social anxiety".

---

It's just a game, no need to get hot and bothered.

Don't I have the right to get hot-headed about defending my reputation

(However bloodied my townie cred may be by now.)

? I refuse to kill my emotions, triply not so because of another VI's missteps.

[The MM]

TL;DR: I'm finding myself doubting Accountant, GL is the person who's been trying to kill me most aside from robby, and now Blacle.

[The MM]

WARNING:

This post was made before the aforementioned Accountant post and does not take it into account.

---

@The MM

'scuse me, but... what?
If I were white-knighting for robby, you'd think I wouldn't trash-talk him the next day, wouldn't you? (If you would, you would still be wrong anyway.)

I don't know how your mind works. Pings are pings not cases.

Rest assured, I don't know 100% how my own mind works either. A wonder of humanity, isn't it?

What makes you think that I could be in the same scumteam as Spinlock?

Anyone that isn't me can be scum. No one has flipped yet so I am not looking for scum teams yet.

I thought the chaos caused by my oh-so-stupid attack on Spinlock would make some soft-proof that if one of us is scum, the other isn't. Noone seems to be considering that.

What makes you think crumb fishing is scummy? Last I checked, the more information is public, the less heavy the advantage scum have gets.

Precisely, information is not scummy in and of itself. "Fishing" for information is beneficial to both town and scum under the right circumstances. Anything that is beneficial to scum in anyway is scummy to me. "Fishing" for PR Crumbs seems to come more likely from scum then from town. Actions alone do not indicate alignment.

While beneficial for scum too, I still think it benefits town

more

. See, what town lacks by default is information. Let's do a bit of a math analogy, since I like numbers. Assume town's intel value is 0 at the beginning of the game, and scum, knowing who is scum, have a good 30 points. Adding crumb-fished information, while not giving flat-out intel, adds probabilities that things happened. Assume it gives both town and scum 5 points. Who gains more? The scum or the town? In terms of advantage, it'sd be the town. Of course, this can easily be swayed around by liesliesliesliesLIES but the point is, in terms of relative advantage, town wins from knowing more, even if it's not rocket science.

What makes you townread RadiantCowbells out of nowhere?

"Neither him or the previous slot has pinged yet so He's town until otherwise." - BlacleWorks

Well, we don't work the same way. I have people at null by default.

What arguments would you have against "the scum team is Blacle and RC we got this in the bag"? (Please mind that this argument is troll; and rest assured, it's nowhere near my actual opinion.)

I am not scum, RC can still be scum.
1)To be clear, you don't think Edgedancer is mafia aligned?
2)Why is a town block forming against you, "not good for you as a player?"
To be clear I'm not trying to "kill you" yet. I'm, asking you questions. Anymore ATE and I will be trying to "kill you."

While the first argument is the soft VT claim we all know and love, it still guarantees me zilch. Sorry, saying that out loud won't make me trust you -- though rest assured, it doesn't make you look

that

scummy.
Now for answers:
1) The more time passes, the more I'm suspecting that he actually is. The sad fact is, he's gone inactive, so we can't poke him and see what happens.
2) I've already made the point: the town block focuses the game on a few persons. If the game is won, the town block can claim credit for the victory and they will not 100% be far off, which gives no actual feeling of victory to the townies who were not part of the block. Like I said before, it's letting people win the game for you -- the very definition of a weak player.
Also, trying to discredit me leads to people throwing votes on me under the pretense that I'm scum, which leads to killing me in the end. The only thing you could do more is vote me -- though you're voting Accountant, so I'm not top priority, I suppose.

---

I like my MM vote. He's been lashing out, and not in a way I find particularly town. #264 was the clincher for me - for someone who's being so combative, the strongest thing he has to say is that he "doubts" me and thinks GuiltyLion and Blacle are out to get him. I think an aggressive-type player like him would have prepared a case, but he seems to be pretty much swinging random punches right now.

Please. #264 brings nothing new, and if you're treating it as a clincher, I could assume you didn't read #263. Besides, just because I'm trying to attack all arguments against me at a time doesn't mean I'm

randomly

flailing around -- though I'll admit this is a lot of flailing.
I never promised I'd make a case, and besides there's far too many people I distrust to mount separate cases against each and every one of them.
But if you need anything, GL's case about me being on the HBG wagon can be nearly copypasta'd and work against him. Plus the spinning of my complaint in #247 really comes across as him trying to score a hard hit on me, based on a spin, all because he could not read the deeper statements and implications (robby already called me scum -- why in the world would I have to put it on paper?) behind the flat words.

---

5)
-snip-
Why do you feel my actions show scum intent? I have clearly shown you why rolecrumbing is for the best.

You have not shown me that rolecrumbing is the "best." You have shown me that

crumb fishing benefits the mafia if they are looking for the doctor

¹. Their was no kill last night. I am inclined to believe that someone got saved.

Mafia knows their roles and so they have a better Idea of the possible PR's of town in the Matrix.

² If the mafia could get someone to crumb their suspected save and it matched up with their saved target then they can limit the possible targets to those who have claimed to save their target. Going along with GuiltyLion's suggestion clearly benefits mafia too much for those "in the know" to consider following through with. GuiltyLion realized this much.

As an IC you should not have lead by example their unless of course you are scum. Thus revealing your scum intent.

³
[...]

Sorry for intruding, but I feel like having a few words on this.
1) I think it benefits the town a lot more to get some information for nothing, plus the Mafia doesn't get hard info, especially not if they tried to kill Accountant (since like 40+% of potential Doctors would have protected him/her/whatever). The chances of there not being a Doctor but a Jailkeeper instead need to be mentioned too, since y'all love believing that a Doctor made the save. Perhaps it's a Jailor who did it -- though the 40+% of Jailors would've jailed me and everyone thinks that I would've made the kill -- which would have been very dumb of me considering how I was in the red lights by the end of Day 1.
2) Considering that I could take a setup out of the possibilities

(taking out the no-NK possibility: the only purpose a no-kill night would do is only the resulting MM 20+% scum ratio because of the chances I'd be jailed)

and evaluate chances of which setup we could've ended in, I'm sure the town gained nearly as much.
3) This is borderline troll logic. While maybe

maybe

Accountant's decision wasn't that well thought-out, it still resulted in us gaining a bunch of information -- if it's at our expense it's our fault for not seeing the consequences. Perhaps Accountant made a bad move, ICs are not gods per se, and I'm willing to forgive them based on older feels. You've done a good job throwing doubt on their face, though, but I'll take a while and check for myself who I can accept to follow.

---

Also, psyche for the break. I have no interest in hiding and taking my time.
Also, seems I've taken the suspicions on me from a vocal minority a bit too hard, I don't look like I'm at L-2, and with "just" Accountant and GuiltyLion (the irony, the two people I considered the towniest) on me I'm at L-3.
I'll add another post later today, trying to piece my stuff back together before trying to take things apart.

[The MM]

In retrospect, I realize I've behaved utterly off and done exactly the reason why my previous experiences at mafia were bad: being a douche to everyone. I'll try to tone myself done -- but this is not easy, especially in the light of poor judgement.

I'll make a move tomorrow -- but it's dinner time for now.

[The MM]

@The MM

You will find that "being a douche" is a common thing among the younger people who play on this forum. Try not to let it get to you, this is just a make believe game after all.

I'm laughing at this. I had a pretty nasty streak, but as hard as it may be to believe for you, I'm 26, not some kind of youngster.

---

Elaborating on the no-NK gambit:

Well, the sheer idea that a no-kill would be imaginable as a gambit for the scumteam would be that a Doctor or JK would imagine they succeeded where they did not, which technically has little impact except the JK having a 50% (more or less based on reads) chance they blocked scum. I think that by Day 1 End, with HBG offed, I was the most suspicious person alive (keep in mind, this is a proof-less soft-read based utterly on my own feelings).

---

Blacle, just a thing, you seem to have tunnel-visioned on Accountant super-hard even though Spinlock and GuiltyLion had

more

scumdar pings, and I myself had just as much. Why is that?
Also, saying rolecrumbing is better for scum -- well, technically, like 80+% of things in the universe, it's subjective. My opinion is that it helps town

more

-- even though with a few stretches and deductions scum can get hard intel.

---

I think this Accountant-Blacle debate is not going anywhere because opinions are being called facts, evidence is being called proof, and soon people will be called names. This debate has grown sterile, but I think other external perspectives on this debate would be very useful. This is a message to everyone that isn't Accountant, BlacleWorks or myself: What are your reads on this debate?

[The MM]

But if you need anything, GL's case about me being on the HBG wagon can be nearly copypasta'd and work against him.

Can you explain this? Copy paste my case and explain how it relates to me, please.

Your case on me was basically just that I was on the HBG wagon. You jumped on it kinda just after me tbh.

sorry for the prod, been busy at work and haven't really had passion for mafia in my free time

GuiltyLion and PrivateI, help me sort something out -- who do each of you think is scum, given what we've seen so far and the fact that no one was killed last night?

My thinking is that there is definitely at least one scum on the mislynch wagon yesterday, so I'm looking there. PrivateI and Accountant look town to me, which leaves MM and Edgedancer.
I wanted to focus Edgedancer at the beginning of the day because he did nothing indicative while he was here, but RC replacing in should help tremendously as RC is always active in his games.

I was looking for the fifth guy on the wagon, and it was - you guessed it - the guy who came in just after me, GuiltyLion (forget the fact that I came first of us two -- you jumped in on 146, I did on 118). Meaning that you are just as likely to be the guilty gear in this wagon as I am.
I am not holding the fact that you're wary of me against you and my vote will not change, because I've kept my gut feelings in check. You're still voting on me, so if I could clear myself to you, I'd do this right now. Especially since you're one of the townies I wouldn't like to just park my vote on.

---

Making new vote tally. Just so I keep track.

If you consider this as usurping mod authority, please warn me and this'll stop, but this is only meant for utility.

Vote Count 2.2

EdgeDancer (2):

PrivateI, The MM

BlacleWorks (3):

RadiantCowbells, Spinlock, Accountant

The MM (1):

GuiltyLion

Accountant (1):

BlacleWorks

No Vote (1):

EdgeDancer

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, April 1, 2016 at 8:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2016-04-01 20:00:00).

[The MM]

Well... here's hoping Shisou will be more active than his predecessors. UNVOTE:

Seems RC is falling into HBG Syndrome: promises, but no post. It's been three days: there might be much calculation and word-crafting in the works..?

I'm not putting BlacleWorks at L-1 yet, but this is my intended followup vote -- I do need to vote somewhere, but I'm not wishing to take that much risk and BlacleWorks needs not that extra pressure, I hope.

[The MM]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@The MM

I think this Accountant-Blacle debate is not going anywhere because opinions are being called facts, evidence is being called proof, and soon people will be called names. This debate has grown sterile, but I think other external perspectives on this debate would be very useful. This is a message to everyone that isn't Accountant, BlacleWorks or myself: What are your reads on this debate?

1)When did I say my evidence was proof? Link or quote(with links) it please.
2)When did I say my opinions were fact? Link or quote(with links) it please.
3)If you cannot find where I have done this please can you explain who the "people" that own these actions are?

Blacle, just a thing, you seem to have tunnel-visioned on Accountant super-hard even though Spinlock and GuiltyLion had more scumdar pings, and I myself had just as much. Why is that?
Also, saying rolecrumbing is better for scum -- well, technically, like 80+% of things in the universe, it's subjective. My opinion is that it helps town more -- even though with a few stretches and deductions scum can get hard intel.

I believe that Accountant is the most scummy of the scum in my scumpool. Pushing a lynch is not tunnel vision. I'm not gonna doubtcast and hope for the best. Additionally, I agree crumbing can help on its own. In our current scenario, the crumbing was asked for. It is not very town to ask for crumbs on D2 when there was "OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING" no kill. I assert that IC of all people would have recognized this and not have been the first person to "go along with it." If you do not agree with my case then say so, and please say why. I ~feel~ like you have interpreted my case to be "BlacleWorks asserts that role crumbing is scummy." If what im ~feeling~ is true than please do ask for clarification instead of just interpreting something if your not exactly "picking up what I'm putting down."

If your gonna vote for me then do it. I don't really care if I get lynched. I am town and If I get lynched and town wins I still win without having to do much of anything else. Its not as if "only" I can win this game; and even if that is the case, I don't have any sheeple under my command at the moment and I never will
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) and 2) It's not said per se, but you're throwing any argument against you right back like it never existed. Implying that while you never said it word for word, you think it.
3) I barely can understand the question.
It's like these levels of verbosery are only meant to confuse me.
Also, instead of attacking Accountant and demoralizing town for crumbing, maybe we can make use of the things we gained instead of complaining that scum gained something too? Crumbing does not benefit scum only and in no way can this be used as proof that anyone is scum.

VOTE: BlacleWorks Keep in mind, this is only for the confrontational and unwaveringly reactionless attitude, not for much other reasons.

This is L-1.

Derphammerers, keep your shiz down before Blacle gets more global about his opinions. We need to play it smart.

[The MM]

Not a game related question, but why do you use weird colors for our names? Is it like a constantly updating reads list to remind everyone how you read a particular person?

@Accountant

I don't answer non-game related questions.

I think the colors all resonate with his old readslist anyway. The refusal to answer makes it clear though that you are not communicative.

[The MM]

^ The above post's last sentence is addressed to Blacle, not Accountant, unlike the first one. Apologies for the hasty mistyping.

[The MM]

@The MM

3) I barely can understand the question.

The question was written in a way that would make it clear, if you could not find the posts in which I have said my opinions are facts and that my evidence is proof, I want you to say exactly who you are talking about instead of being noncommittal. Interestingly, you somehow answered this question.

Excuse me for being French and not understanding all the twists of English language.

If you cannot find where I have done this

please can you explain who the "people" that own these actions are?

The first part of course is self-explanatory, because I could not (bother to) find where you did this (mainly because I feel like you ignored every single argument). As far as I checked, actions are only "owned" by traders and all this bull that has nothing to do with the game (confusion with "shareholding", I'm French). Are you just asking me "whodunnit" when I'm only addressing your behaviour?

1) and 2) It's not said per se, but you're throwing any argument against you right back like it never existed. Implying that while you never said it word for word, you think it.

Here you assert that I think my opinion is fact and my evidence is proof. Your supportive evidence is my disregard for arguments made against my opinions and evidence. I challenge you to Iso me and find this disregard. You will not find any disregard for any arguments. I acknowledge any and all arguments that involve me or my thoughts, and state whether I agree or disagree with them.
I ~feel~ like you are attempting to discredit my character and "paint" me as a person who cannot be reasoned with.

I'm saying what you look like to me; no more, no less. Noone is obligated to follow my words, and if they make a mistake because of it it's their fault -- I'd acknowledge my part in my mistake however, were you town.
Nonetheless, I don't see your tone changing and you're definitely relying too much on the idea that you're town for sure.

Spoiler: Here's a fact, however, stated as a truth (unbacked at that) while it isn't objectively true.

It is not very town to ask for crumbs on D2 when there was "OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING" no kill.

It's like these levels of verbosery are only meant to confuse me.
Also, instead of attacking Accountant and demoralizing town for crumbing, maybe we can make use of the things we gained instead of complaining that scum gained something too? Crumbing does not benefit scum only and in no way can this be used as proof that anyone is scum.

If you are being confused it is not intentional. I am not attacking account. I am not demoralizing town for crumbing. Recognize that crumbing and crumb fishing are not the same thing. Crumbing does not benefit scum "only" I agree. Crumbing cannot be used as proof that anyone is scum, I agree, unless they are crumbing that they are scum like some kind of comic book villain explaining their schemes before the climax. However, I doubt anyone here is going to do that.

Sure. Still, how does the information gained by this [crumbing / crumb fishing / whatever] orientate you towards seeing Accountant as scummy? The only way that I'd see Accountant as scum is if I was a JK and jailed him/her, and even then it's 75-25 in favor of protecting him rather than preventing a NK. Attitude is useful for reads, but the probabilities are just way too low for me to even consider (40% that there's a JK, 5% that it's me, 3.75% that the kill was blocked by the JK rather than a 1-Shot BP, and then counting the read-based odds we're at around 0.9375% that Accountant is scum based on hard intel, the no-kill result). The only person I see refusing to NK is myself (because while gambiting is usually a mistake I love playing mindgems when scum), and in this situation the only benefit I could see in not NKing was casting more suspicion on the guys who were already suspicious, which after the HBG lynch was myself and Edgedancer (correct me if I'm wrong).

1)Be clear, are you voting for me because you think I am scum? Or are you voting for me solely based on the reason you gave:

Keep in mind, this is only for the confrontational and unwaveringly reactionless attitude, not for much other reasons.

This is L-1. Derphammerers, keep your shiz down before Blacle gets more global about his opinions. We need to play it smart.

I think the colors all resonate with his old readslist anyway.

The refusal to answer makes it clear though that you

(

BlacleWorks

)

are not communicative.

Except.

No, it's fine. Non-game related questions are 100% his perogative,

and NAI. I know a guy who had the same policy to make a split between his game persona and real persona, so that in-game arguments wouldn't bleed over to real life.

I am not voting for you due to massive convictions that you are scum (though I have zero townread on you aside from the fact that you are active and flailing -- which is not 100% town in any way), but the fact that I really don't like the way you're playing. I got smacked for bad attitude, but while you're not as incorrect as Iam, I still feel annoyed by the way you put things. Count this as a warning, count this as whatever you wish, but it

is

there.

[The MM]

@The MM

I am not flailing, your attempts to discredit me will not actually discredit me. Only I can discredit me.

This is technically wrong. If people point out a problem in your argument, then they discredited you. You're being megalomaniacal and more self-centered than I ever was.

I am not responsible for your current understanding of the English language, this is an English forum. I will always be more clear and more plain with my words upon request. I am not here to administer some type of English as a Second Language test.

Didn't ask you to. Now stop being a smartass and get in line instead of acting all high and mighty, maybe you might be more tolerable to watch.

Sure. Still, how does the information gained by this [crumbing / crumb fishing / whatever] orientate you towards seeing Accountant as scummy? The only way that I'd see Accountant as scum is if I was a JK and jailed him/her, and even then it's 75-25 in favor of protecting him rather than preventing a NK. Attitude is useful for reads, but the probabilities are just way too low for me to even consider (40% that there's a JK, 5% that it's me, 3.75% that the kill was blocked by the JK rather than a 1-Shot BP, and then counting the read-based odds we're at around 0.9375% that Accountant is scum based on hard intel, the no-kill result). The only person I see refusing to NK is myself (because while gambiting is usually a mistake I love playing mindgems when scum), and in this situation the only benefit I could see in not NKing was casting more suspicion on the guys who were already suspicious, which after the HBG lynch was myself and Edgedancer (correct me if I'm wrong).

I am not fixated on probabilities. 2 players are scum and no one is cleared. That means anyone can be scum. I have already made my case as to why I think Accountant is one of the scum. Read it and ask for clarifications on the parts you don't understand. If your not willing to do that please stop talking to me about my case.

That's the part I was talking about -- actively refusing to listen. You're useless as a player, seeing as you don't bring an evolving viewpoint, just the same perspective. Just from your way of arguing, I can see you're definitely not an empath -- otherwise you would've tried to understand me. And it's the little sociopathic runt calling you out on talking about empathy when you have none! I'm very negatively impressed with you; that's the point in case you missed it.

I am not voting for you due to massive convictions that you are scum (though I have zero townread on you aside from the fact that you are active and flailing -- which is not 100% town in any way), but the fact that I really don't like the way you're playing. I got smacked for bad attitude, but while you're not as incorrect as Iam, I still feel annoyed by the way you put things. Count this as a warning, count this as whatever you wish, but it is there.

Thank you for making it clear that your not looking to lynch scum. Ill get back to pushing my lynch on you after I'm done pushing my current lynch on accountant. I still think she is more scummy than you but, you are not far behind her. It is only because she is more experienced than you that I am viewing her actions with more scrutiny.

I'm looking to clear scum first, but I can't work with you shoving yourself all over everybody, and then assuming I'm bad at the game because I take offense. If you don't calm your shiz like I did, you're out -- I don't need further discussion.

1)Do you currently have a scum read on anyone?
2)Do you plan on doing more than parking your votes on people you do not actually think are scum in this day phase?

1) I don't have 100% sure scumreads (because let's be real, noone can), but suspicions on GuiltyLion, I had some on robbylet2 (which would give you a scumcard). The only thing the extension of your debate with Accountant is doing as far as I'm concerned, is making me trust Accountant.
2) I'm willing to clean the game of those I consider douchebags if that helps me root out the scum easier -- not that I consider you a major loss in any way, as you're more of a hindrance to me than anything else. Maybe you'll cool down if someone threatens to hammer.

[The MM]

Alright now your legit pissing me off. You did make a real attempt to discredit me you are currently"painting" me as a person that cannot be reasoned with. You brought up that you are french and don't know all the ins and outs of English. I didn't bring this up! I then go on to state that I'm not responsible for your english skills(I dont even know you!) but, I am willing to restate what you do not understand. I cannot know what you truly do not understand and what you are just being lazy about. That is why I'm asking you to tell me what you don't understand. I'm trying to cater to you and your not allowing me to do that. I even said I'm not testing your english! Ofcourse you didn't ask me to do that. I am in no way shape or form being a "smart ass" my whole approach to this game has been very clinical And you have that audacity to come at me like this. I have been nothing but polite! and you have audacity to come at me like this! WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM!?

The annoyance is mutual, don't you worry.
Plus, that snipe back at my non-mastery of English was unnecessary. You're not my English teacher, yeah, I got it! This wasn't meant to be answered to at all, much less this way. You're better at this than me, I get it.
As for your case, if you could succinctly put them in less than one line per post, it's what?

"Accountant supports crumb-fishing as an IC, s/he is scum."

We have already said why crumb-fishing also effectively supports the town and this is a risk that we, the town, have taken. Please explain your other points, because I must be missing a lot of it.

I'm not actively refusing to listen at all. Your percentages still allow for accountant to be scum. We both agree on this. The difference between me and you is what I clearly stated. I am not fixated on the probabilities but you're acting as if you are. I actually do understand you. Empathy is not Sympathy. Honestly I don't owe you any sympathy whatsoevr What you clearly do not get and what I have already stated is this: You do not understand my case. You are not getting it. Your interpreting something wrong. I need you to reread my case then I need you to explain why you can't follow it. Once you do this I will be able to restate it in a way that is easier for you specifically to understand. I am willing to do this because even if I do suspect you of being scum their is a chance that I am wrong about you and so if you are town it is much more beneficial to town to atleast be able to undertstand each other. I can tell that you don't understand my case because you keep asking questions that do not hit on any of the core arguments or points of my case. You're not even understanding that this case is more about the IC supporting crumb fishing, and not at all about anyone role crumbing.

They still allow for Accountant to be scum, yes, but at super-low odds. (less than 1%, dayum!) That's less than you or myself -- I admit, if scum no-NK'd night 1, it'd be only to get the number madmen like myself to suspect me of having been jailed out of doing the NK. Except I can't suspect myself -- and that leaves me at odds with understanding the people trying to bank on that 10+% chance of me being scum. As for the IC supporting role/crumb fishing, welp, I already made my case above and in older posts: it also helps town out a great deal! Or optionally, it throws more suspicions on me, but still, it helps townies reduce chances and figure out the game better. Especially the newbi-er ones like myself.
Now for the sympathy part, we could win without even liking each other, yes, that's sure. Clearing you specifically because I don't like you and because I didn't like your predecessor along with having found him scummy on separate occasions though..? I respect your play -- barely, but I do. But with your arguments - with me or Accountant - bloating the conversation, I'm starting to hate seeing the assortment of knives/swords/whatever everywhere.

Why are you looking to clear scum? You don't clear scum you lynch scum! Did you mean to say something else? Don't take this question up the butt, I'm trying to work with you!

I didn't wanna use long sentences as "clearing that field out of scum / clear that game out of scum / blahblahblahyouknowtherest". The only way to clear scum is to kill them anyway, why the need to add more to this?

And finally I'm not shoving myself on anyone. I presented my case. If me or my case is being belittled I'm not going to ignore it I'm going to point it out. If me or my case is being misrepresented I'm not gonna ignore it I'm gonna point it out. I provide quotes for people like you who cannot be bothered to check and see if anyone is lying. I do this because I understand how annoying it is to have to keep checking back just to make sure someone isn't trying to pull a fast one on you.

To above on the section about your post rate -- as well as mine. You're arguing against Accountant, I try to shoehorn my opinion in, but fact is -- everyone else is hiding!

But all you can see is negativity because I have my opinions and my reads and you have yours? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!? AND YOUR WILLING TO THROW THE GAME BECAUSE WE ARE NOT VIBING AND BEING BEST BUDDIES!?

Killing someone I have ambivalent scum-leaning reads

and

get tranquillity? Clearer head in all senses of the term. The only thing that's not to like about it is the getting closer to endgame part. That's probably the reason you'd go after me if not for Accountant when I think about it.

Look this game is not about personal attacks and appealing to emotions. We all deal with that enough in our own lives. I am legit trying to catch mafia. You are legit making this shit way too personal for me. So check it out, one more personal attack, and I replace out. Its bad enough that I'm in yet another game with RC who I'm doing my best to just ignore and read like a normal player. I'm not taking anymore shit from anymore internet assholes who can't just have fun playing the game.

You have personal problems with RC and Accountant on top of myself..? Come to think of it, yeah, RC is taking that HBG syndrome with the empty promise for reads, and I'm sure everyone is laughing their butts off at us.

[The MM]

Now I'll avoid a RC derphammer first, the time I really piece stuff out in my head. UNVOTE: BlacleWorks
After all the heat going on, I'm wishing to see a lot more from the rest of the town -- plus the fact that I'd like to be able to hammer in case I find Blacle actually 100% intolerable.

But first, I'll be asking for Blacle's entire case, all in very short statements.
AND I'll be asking for this town to wake up. Spinlock has gone full-tilt after #276-277, making me really start thinking he's 100% Accountant's stooge. Shisou's promised post is non-existent (like many promised posts in this game imo). GuiltyLion has let 20 posts of arguing go on. It's been 60 posts since PrivateI posted, though I get town vibes from it. RC has posted little, once again, and the last post, with the context, nearly trollpings me, though I'll let that slide because the post makes its sense.

For now, I have to sides on a coin: Accountant, Spinlock and RC (all in that same group); and on the other side, Blacle (kinda alone). The rest are basically irrelevant, especially PrivateI (I sincerely apologize for this joke x.x).

I'm not picking a side and leaving some breathing space to Blacle. For now.

[The MM]

^

UNVOTE:

I've hated MM all day

Can't say I'm surprised you hate me. You're no different from the rest.

I gotta admit though, I'm scared of that

curriculum vitae

of yours: you seem to have lost a lot of games as townie (4 to 8, aka 33% win rate), yet have a 100% scum win rate (9 games). As far as Newbie games only go, you're 2 to 2 as town, and 1 to 0 as scum. If you're a threat, you're a major one, on the same level as (or above) the scum-Accountant possibility.
Know that if you feel insulted by the mention of "RC-derphammer", I mostly picked you because few would pick up on that really fast. Treat that as a compliment.

[The MM]

Even though you were already on the Blacle wagon -- I need to keep vote tallies in check. Badly.

[The MM]

P-Edit: MM, your self-defeating/deprecating attitude all the freaking time is kind of annoying.

That's how it is. Getting hate posts every now and then (See that? Two people explicitly hate me.) helps nothing, plus constant derogatory introspective is my way to improve myself.
I'll take a while to wait and try to figure who to lynch with a clearer head though. I've ended up confusing myself by trying to get involved and break the Accountant-Blacle debate.
I'm personally involved with the game because as a newbie I have a lot to prove. Seeing as my encounters with robby and Blacle prove, I might just be way too personal.

PS:

RC, if you hate me, state why and vote me rather than stalling this out. It's not like I'm at L-1.

---

Sooooo... vote tally where?
Well, here. Because, you know... it's here now.

If you consider this as usurping mod authority, please warn me and this'll stop, but this is only meant for utility.

Vote Count

EdgeDancer

Shisou (1):

PrivateI

BlacleWorks (2):

Spinlock, Accountant

The MM (1):

GuiltyLion

Accountant (1):

BlacleWorks

No Vote (4):

EdgeDancer

Shisou, The MM, RadiantCowbells
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is Friday, April 1, 2016 at 8:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2016-04-01 20:00:00).

[The MM]

If the mod won't post a vote count, I'll be helpful and do just that.

If you consider this as usurping mod authority, please warn me and this'll stop, but this is only meant for utility.

Vote Count

Shisou (1):

PrivateI

BlacleWorks (3,

L-2

):

Spinlock, Accountant, RadiantCowbells

The MM (1):

GuiltyLion

Accountant (1):

BlacleWorks

No Vote (2):

Shisou, The MM
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is Friday, April 1, 2016 at 8:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2016-04-01 20:00:00).

---

Add to that, just sharing some WannabeWisdom: the guys who control themselves the lmeast are more likely to be town. Scum always try to keep their cool under all circumstances lest they're discovered, but townies don't have that. Thinking someone is a douchebag is no reason to scumflag them. I'm starting to thin I'm white-knighting Blacle tho.

I'm almost tempted to say that #334 is a very soft JK claim, but at this rate I claimed VT day 1, twice.

RC's #337 is technically wrong. While one Cop setup is out of the question, we still have a chance to have a Cop: Setup 2 does feature a Doctor. #341 might imply that RC is cock-sure that we have a Jailkeeper, which would make #337 true in retrospect.

I agree with Accountant that a no-lynch is a bad idea. I'm sure that lynching Blacle would reveal a lot of things.
Add a FoS on PrivateI: he showed up, but didn't change the vote on Edgedancer even after seeing Shisou replaced him.

I have yet to see any wagon other than Blacle get anywhere. Would hammer, but really I don't like the idea of being forced onto such a lynch -- while his death would give me a lot of soft info, I'm not willing to say that this is our best card. More on this later today.

[The MM]

Wait a minute when did The MM stop being scummy? lol

That's what I look like when I'm not getting annoyed or sidetracked. I am trying to make the best of the 3 days we have left.

I was thinking the same thing about RC and a soft JK claim, but he, I'm guessing, soft recanted(is that a thing) in a way that just ~feels~ honest. And yeah I don't know if you're(The MM) actually soft claiming or just laying the wifom on thick I'm just glad I don't truly need to figure this out.

I'm not claiming, I'm just making fun of the "playing seriously as a VT" misunderstanding that I caused day 1.

Im almost certain I'm gonna get lynched today. Wasted way too much time expressing my frustrations. And If no other cases are made that are more lynchable I can't blame anyone but myself. It sucks to create favorable situations for mafia with sucky play! I refuse to be the VI forever!

There are odds that you indeed get lynched today. I'm also sure scum won't try to show themselves too much. (Should we try to force them?) You're kinda sounding like an anime with this "I refuse to be the VI forever!" sentence, just sayin', I lol'd.

Is it just me or does it feel like their are only 5 people in this game. Does mafia lurk in this situation or do they capitalize on my lynch? Is this even something to consider for tomorrow? If so let it be known that I too had something helpful to say

Depends. I think they'd check if they can murder with a borrowed knife (let someone else hammer) first, and maybe if the time is right and they can avoid being spotted, they'd hammer.

Shisou, any reason for not voting? (Also, flashwagon means instantly creating a new lynch wagon on someone, hopefully with enough votepower to lynch on the spot -- but that would also be a quickhammer)

PrivateI, why's your vote still on Shisou? Did you think Edgedancer had enough of a scumcard that you can flag it on Shisou?

[The MM]

the guys who control themselves the lmeast are more likely to be town. Scum always try to keep their cool under all circumstances lest they're discovered, but townies don't have that.

Depends on the player. There are scum who fake temper tantrums to get people to avoid pressuring them. There are even scum who fake the part of a disgruntled townie and spite vote themselves near hammer, to get people to back off.

This exists, but fake tantrums convey the point "get off me" more than real tantrums -- mostly because they're really just about getting people off one's back, and most complaints might seem very fake.

I should note that other than myself, the doctor crumbs have all been on Spinlock. I'm confident in the ability of either of us to lead the town.

I counted all the crumbs, back at 234. Spinlock would have Doc'd GL, and Edgedancer didn't follow. Shisou's late crumb might not be worth this much, since it might've been measured while looking back just to "aim" better. Nonetheless, it has its little value - complete the crumbing.

Doc-crumbs are 4-2-2 for Accountant, Spinlock and GL.
JK-crumbs are 4-2-1-1 for MMe, Accountant,

Edgedancer

Shisou, and Spinlock.

Make of that what you will.

[The MM]

Wut. Just... wut.

[The MM]

Let's see some more MM votes. He's ignoring my point about his reaction to a perceived guilty.

Excuse me, it must have flown past my head at some point in time.
For now, I'd vote RC but apparently the apparent behaviour is misleading and we might as well just run into the second coming of HBG.

Could you reassert your point? Because if you're talking about robby's "MM is scum lel", the perceived guilty had to be guilty because come on, he said he had a scumread, not a town-read, and the post was made with the idea that you'd get it. The choice of wording may appear shady to you, but situational aspects make it completely normal to me. Just replaced "he had a guilty ping on me" by "he investigated me" because the result was obviously a guilty ping. It's just obvious and I thought I was done with having to answer for this, honestly. I'd love to be cleared just like every single one of you, but once again, if a cop claims a guilty, that's flat-out impossible to claim being cleared, right?

Still voting noone, keeping my vote ready for when I'm as sure as possible that I hit right.

[The MM]

How could a cop!robby have a guilty on you? Why are you acting as if it's a possibility?

Because you know how well it goes when I go full confrontational. And I didn't want to go OMGUS-scumflag robby because it would've been wayyy to easy and braindead. Plus ignoring it would not always be a mark of town. Heck, acting like it's a blatant lie only makes you look cock-sure -- which knowing my personality so far you know I'm not -- and doing this well is pretty close to a scumread for me.

Situational aspects like being scum? Hence a guilty ping made it completely normal to you?

No! Situational aspects like "he wasn't saying he had a clean ping". I think I already made this point.

If mafia is more paranoid than town about looking guilty, that makes total sense re: GL's case. He was calling out MM for overreacting (due to scum-paranoia about being found out) to what he perceived was a guilty claim by robby. A town would go "silly robby, hahaha", and the idea of a cop claiming guilty on them would never enter their heads, because they know a cop would never find them guilty.

I was too hotheaded about robby being stooped and going all guns blazing on me again to consider being nice. Plus, the idea of a cop claiming a guilty on me entered my head -- mostly because he said it out loud. I hate forceful people when they're blind.

Fancypants looks just like vote bait and an easy scapegoat by now, plus we won't get any reaction until he shows up again. I think voting FP is a bad move for the time being.

Explain this, MM.

Easy, LAL is a very default lynch policy and Fancypants had posted twice so far, methinks, with barely a hint they'd be scum. This pretty damn close to the definition of easy.

Town{Spinlock}
Probtown{Accountant, MM, Robby}
Slight town lean {GL}
Uberscum{PrivateI}
Still null on Fancypatns but the slot may be scum by POE.

I don't get it. How did I become probtown (and town by 427) by doing absolutely nothing? You make me wanna claim Luigi. Also, why mentioning Robby and Facypants? Robby was replaced by Blacle and Fancypants was replaced by Edgedancer and then Shisou.
Blacle's list in 436 looks like there's a lotta "confirmed townies". But he's denouncing a scumteam of either Spinlock-Shisou or Spinlock-PrivateI. TBH PrivateI looks like here be lurking.

---

Personally I don't see Shisou being scum, even though ofc I hate how he's voting for me. I'm also starting to have enough of GL's persistence on saying I'm scum, repeatedly pointing out the same thing -- which is what Shisou's jumping on in the first place.
Readslist:

Townreads:

Accountant (damn near perfect so far, so I'm letting my guard down a bit yay)

Town-lean Reads:

Blacle (now that the hate has died down, I don't really know what to make of what we left)

Null:

Shisou (anything I read from him is way too SAWFT)
Spinlock (faded into relative obscurity)

Swingy Reads:

RC (looks very swingy as a player -- very strong drive but hard to reason with)

Scum-lean Read

PrivateI (due to lurking and looking slightly worse in retrospect)
GuiltyLion (points are made)

Scumread:

----

As you see, I'm trying to make my reads stronger before end-day. Also, I think we don't lose much by this vote VOTE: PrivateI. This will also change how I see RC, maybe that'll stop that swingy read of mine.

[The MM]

How could a cop!robby have a guilty on you? Why are you acting as if it's a possibility?

Because you know how well it goes when I go full confrontational. And I didn't want to go OMGUS-scumflag robby because it would've been wayyy to easy and braindead. Plus ignoring it would not always be a mark of town. Heck, acting like it's a blatant lie only makes you look cock-sure -- which knowing my personality so far you know I'm not -- and doing this well is pretty close to a scumread for me.

Situational aspects like being scum? Hence a guilty ping made it completely normal to you?

No! Situational aspects like "he wasn't saying he had a clean ping". I think I already made this point.

If mafia is more paranoid than town about looking guilty, that makes total sense re: GL's case. He was calling out MM for overreacting (due to scum-paranoia about being found out) to what he perceived was a guilty claim by robby. A town would go "silly robby, hahaha", and the idea of a cop claiming guilty on them would never enter their heads, because they know a cop would never find them guilty.

I was too hotheaded about robby being stooped and going all guns blazing on me again to consider being nice. Plus, the idea of a cop claiming a guilty on me entered my head -- mostly because he said it out loud. I hate forceful people when they're blind.

Fancypants looks just like vote bait and an easy scapegoat by now, plus we won't get any reaction until he shows up again. I think voting FP is a bad move for the time being.

Explain this, MM.

Easy peasy; LAL is a very default lynch policy and Fancypants had posted twice so far, methinks, with barely a hint they'd be scum. This pretty damn close to the definition of easy.

Town{Spinlock}
Probtown{Accountant, MM, Robby}
Slight town lean {GL}
Uberscum{PrivateI}
Still null on Fancypatns but the slot may be scum by POE.

I don't get it. How did I become probtown (and town by 427) by doing absolutely nothing? You make me wanna claim Luigi. Also, why mentioning Robby and Facypants? Robby was replaced by Blacle and Fancypants was replaced by Edgedancer and then Shisou.
Blacle's list in 436 looks like there's a lotta "confirmed townies". But he's denouncing a scumteam of either Spinlock-Shisou or Spinlock-PrivateI. TBH PrivateI looks like here be lurking.

---

Personally I don't see Shisou being scum, even though ofc I hate how he's voting for me. I'm also starting to have enough of GL's persistence on saying I'm scum, repeatedly pointing out the same thing -- which is what Shisou's jumping on in the first place.
Readslist:

Townreads:

Accountant (damn near perfect so far, so I'm letting my guard down a bit yay)

Town-lean Reads:

Blacle (now that the hate has died down, I don't really know what to make of what we left)

Null:

Shisou (anything I read from him is way too SAWFT)
Spinlock (faded into relative obscurity)

Swingy Reads:

RC (looks very swingy as a player -- very strong drive but hard to reason with)

Scum-lean Read

PrivateI (due to lurking and looking slightly worse in retrospect)
GuiltyLion (points are made)

Scumread:

----

As you see, I'm trying to make my reads stronger before end-day. Also, I think we don't lose much by this vote VOTE: PrivateI. This will also change how I see RC, maybe that'll stop that swingy read of mine.

[The MM]

But how do you prove it to the rest of the town? The only to believe I'm not scum is, well, me. To you, I can be scum, and therefore I have to prove the contrary.

[The MM]

I don't know why RC hasn't given a reason for wanting my wagon to start, nor has literally ANY OTHER PERSON ON MY WAGON.
What are you guys doing? Not all of you are scum. Please ask questions, and try to come to a reasoned decision.

I'll change my vote if you give me a reason to: so far, I'm inclined to believe that lynching you, on top of giving me a read on RC, is taking out one of the more inactive persons around. That's not the greatest lynch wagon - but it brings longer term benefits than simply trying to lynch GL (which wouldn't work anyway) or Blacle (flash-wagoning right back on him would be a d!ck move, even though this readslist is a bit weird to me). I'm sure that if you flip town, we can safely pile on RC as he's too volatile. Ball's on your side.

---

But how do you prove it to the rest of the town? The only to believe I'm not scum is, well, me. To you, I can be scum, and therefore I have to prove the contrary.

Here's another way of looking at it. Your question betrays a scum MINDSET.
The idea of getting guiltied never crosses a townie's mind. They have nothing to think about. Even if they get investigated, that just makes them confirmed. But scum does have a reason to freak out and worry over cops.
So, when you freak out over robby's "cop guilty", it looks scummy.

When you put it that way, yes it does. But if I said "it's like he was a cop who had a guilty ping on me, which is impossible", you wouldn't believe me now, would ya? Plus robby woulda pushed until he subbed out of the game, saying my lack of answers would be scummy. Lose-lose. It's weird though how you "screamed internally" at a VT claim while there you're kinda pushing for me to go pretty much full-LAMIST (

L

ook

A

t

M

e

I

'm

S

o

T

own for everybody else, in case they are not bothered to do some research). But hey, fine.

[The MM]

No, MM, and your repeated and

meticulously careful attention

to precisely what you say isn't reflecting well on you, because you look like scum trying to project a certain image.

I'm asking you why the idea of a cop with a guilty ping

jumped to your mind in the first place

.

Because you could think so. That's why.

[The MM]

I'm really sorry for my absence but I think this will be my last post in this thread. I was enjoying this game for a while but it's becoming harder and harder for me to find the motivation to come back here and catch up with everything. I feel like the personal attacks from last weekend continuing into this week have left a very bad taste in my mouth. Even though that has stopped, for now, it's very hard for me not to feel intimidated and, honestly, kind of afraid to come back here.
I won't post a final readslist as I don't think I'm in any state to contribute to this game any further.
UNVOTE:
Sorry for doing this in a game that already suffers from inactivity, but I don't feel comfortable participating any more. I hope you all understand. I'm requesting immediate replacement.

I'm a bit late to the punchline, but I'm sorry for the part I've played in this. Wishing you the best in all your future games.

[The MM]

Excellent question. I find it weird how RC is like just tossing me flowers for reasons I can't fathom -- like next-level reads.

I'm sure that if Accountant was scum the only way to prevent the NK would've been doccing or jailing the NK target. Except the jail fodder was me. If you prevented a NK on me, that would've proven that this scumteam is either absolutely stuped or horrendously uncoordinated.

Still, I need to see the mod message before drawing any

real

conclusion.

[The MM]

Great arguments guys :/

[The MM]

HOLY BAJEEMUS! I wanna vote Shisou so hard right now but I got so beat to it that I'll just but a

massive

FoS and will not hesitate one second if I find Shisou guilty. Of course I'll turn coat and vote Accountant if I find something uncomfortably scummy about Accountant too.

Accountant claiming to have tracked Shisou is both odd and not this odd to me. Shisou was nowhere near being a major target of suspicion (though of course he was a minor target due to how he was uninvolved in the major matters). With the results of the end-day and night, I feel like blanking all my townreads from the previous day, even Blacle's soft-read due to his antagonism towards Accountant on the suspicion Accountant's gambitting us into mislynching Cop Shisou, which would make little sense considering it's MyLo, so mislynching anyone is a loss.

I think we have a Shisou scumteam and an Accountant scumteam in the possibilities, but not both. Who do you guys think could be either's partner?

As far as your little game of checkers goes, Accountant, you've already won just by having first move. If you're trying to slip undertones about you getting the game in the bag, welp... can't like you for that. I gotta play clever. I'm not trusting Accountant 100%, though the claim seems legit. And I'm not counterclaiming to save Shisou's behind, because I'd be lying -- and that would be wrong.

[The MM]

If you're trying to slip undertones about you getting the game in the bag

Nah, just bored and wanted to do this. Someone else did something similar in a micro game where we were waiting on a guy to hammer.

Still, playing checkers with first turn is an instant win. Few would want to play a mini-game in which they're sure to lose, so I figured I'd tie it back to the game. My bad, I guess?

Shisou was nowhere near being a major target of suspicion

That's why I tracked him. If he was scum, he's the guy scum would use to kill for sure. If I tracked Blacle, I'd have likely gotten nothing - even if he was scum, scum wouldn't use him to make the kill(precisely because he's an obvious target for tracker).

Then again, I would have done the exact same thing, so I can say I more than get your point here.

Waiting on for Spinlock's input. It'll be decisive as far as my reads go. Sad that RC was Doc doe, I'm sure PRs should play less hotheadedly than this when in such a position.

[The MM]

Whatever, I do not know these game names in english, plus since we're checking boxes, I'm saying checkers for shits and giggles, and also because I can't bother.

[The MM]

Well, I don't play favourites as far as anime is concerned, and I don't watch that many anime these days. As far as I go, I watched a bunch and loved a bunch. I can't say I truly love any anime in full these days -- only moments or scenes.

[The MM]

Madoka killed my heart. Let's just say that it's the reason why I started to renounce the jackassery I occasionnally dipped into. Let's just say that I'm so much into story creation that I'm not all for things created by others. Just saying.

[The MM]

Dayum, Spinlock replacement claiming Tracker. Can't say I'm 100% surprised, but I'm stuck between two possible scumteams -- yes, CFG, I'm not giving you a free pass.

I must weigh the options against Accountant or against Shisou (whom you're defending).

Also, Accountant was my top townread due to the repeated attempts at "helping the town". It might be blindness coming from me -- but I just could not manage to form any legit argument on him being scum, and I tried all game. I'm just not that good. Though the blatant antagonism and scumcalling CFJ means that Shisou's scumbuddy would be CFJ. Accountant's buddy, to me, would be GL -- let's be real, what are the odds Blacle would be Accountant's buddy?

The problem is -- it's MyLo. I can't pile my trust on Blacle and take a wrong chance. What's the vote tally?

---

PS: The mod needs to actualize the playerlist every time he makes a replacement... Must be heavy work, but still; it's mucking things up for people that replace into the game.

[The MM]

I gotta admit, the sheer speed Accountant started the claim at shows at the very least some eagerness to get the game won, which I doubt right now.
Also, there are several setups with only goons in the scumteam -- like setup 1, which only has a jailkeeper (even though ofc right now it's out the window).

It's between Accountant-GL or Shisou-CFJ to me, so here. VOTE: GuiltyLion

[The MM]

What the hell is that logic of yours, Blacle? But hey, like robbylet before you, there you go shoving your opinion up people's faces like it's truth. I'm not changing my vote yet because I need to get a reaction, but don't force me to go back on my self-agreement on not voting you. Well, if GL responds correctly enough I'm OMGUS-voting you anyway, just so you know.

The only thing you'll get by lynching me is a scum victory anyway. If you get this far, you'll see for yourself and regret it. GG2HEAVY

---

This was my scouting for a reaction. I got to have an idea of who Accountant's possible scumbuddy was, as written above. If GL said something scummy enough, I woulda lynched him and THEN Accountant, because at this point Accountant would be the closest we have to confscum.
With you and Blacle acting so conceited though, I can barely think proper. If the goal of both of you is to annoy the bajeemus out of me, it works, but whassit give you?

I'm back at my seat considering the possibilities. It's actually highly likely that I flip off in the short future, but Blacle woulda brought this on himself anyway.

[The MM]

@TheMM:
Do you agree that Accountant is confirmed scum, or not?
Do you understand how voting in MyLo/LyLo works, or not?

1 - Certainly not. I'm not confirming something that didn't flip, as we don't have a cop. Plus I've considered the possibility of a scumteam Shisou-CFJ.
2- I don't know what I'm supposed to do in this case, but if a lynch results from my fishing vote, this means the rest of the town is either stupid or scum and/or the target is fishy as hell. That's the entire reason I felt voting GL was "safe".

[...]I think EdgeDancer fit the profile of lurking scum, so I tried to engage him several times and that was when he flaked out. I wasn't around for much of the end of D2 on Shisou's replace in, but his jump on my MM wagon D2 is probably the most indicative thing I saw from him so far, unfortunately all it tells me at the moment is that he and TheMM are likely opposite alignments.
Your point about being the doctor save looks legit to me (barring a scum no kill N1, which still seems highly unlikely), which would make Accountant scum. In which case, the "guilty" verdict on Shisou is an odd play if Shisou is the partner. I'm guessing scum!Accountant knew that they would be CC'd, so the lynch would be between Accountant and the CC.
So either scum!Accountant is banking on being lynched and scum-partner!Shisou gaining towncred as a result, or perhaps scum!Accountant thought that town!Shisou was the tracker and was hoping to strong-arm the lynch. Unfortunately I think both scenarios seem plausible so I'm going to have to re-ISO Shisou and Edgedancer (and Fancypants) on reread to get a firmer read here.

If this is true, I'd have all the reasons to be stupid and pile on Shisou like my life depended on it -- but I'm too afraid this'll result in a loss.
Also, you're not talking about the possibility of a town!Accountant, GL. Is Accountant confscum to you too? Also, I can't really see the idea that getting off my wagon is scummy at all.

I gotta admit, the sheer speed Accountant started the claim at shows at the very least some eagerness to get the game won, which I doubt right now.
Also, there are several setups with only goons in the scumteam -- like setup 1, which only has a jailkeeper (even though ofc right now it's out the window).

It's between Accountant-GL or Shisou-CFJ to me, so here. VOTE: GuiltyLion

This is a terrible vote. Blacle is already voicing suspicion of me and there's no reason not to vote between the two tracker claims today, as one of them is guaranteed scum. Why aren't you considering an Accountant-Shisou team here?

Be real with me a second. You don't bank on me trusting you based on that, do you? I mean, every single player would post like that, and I mean:

Every. Single. One.

And this kind of cliché copypasta response is starting to feel easy, lazy, and old as hell.
Besides, I actually have reasons to vote non-Trackerclaims: it's a tactic to find scum, because we all know the first one is one of the two Trackerclaims anyway

(and people are pushing the shit outta non-Trackerclaim Shisou)

. Pressuring other people to find the scumpartner is a hint to find out who's the real scum, by seeing who reacts bad and putting two and two together. Also, I highly doubt that this is a possible scumteam mostly on surface feelings, but bussing is not something an IC starts at the beginning of the day: I doubt Accountant would start gambitting like that when the risks are so present. Also, this:

Has everyone gone mad? Shisou is obvsvum. Lynch. Him.

This. Scum don't bus their partners with OMGUS posts. This simply just wouldn't be the way someone plays by default, triply so when there's not that high a threat on scum. I'm sure unless the scumpartner done goofed up, Accountant would make a point

not

to lynch them.

[The MM]

If noone's jumped on the wagon, doesn't it make GL suspicious? After all, scum had the tools to win the game right there. UNVOTE: GuiltyLion before that happens.

I am considering all possible teams not comprehending myself as scum, as the only one that looked reliable to me from afar was Accountant, now a major scumflag target. Also, acting under the pretense that Accountant is confscum, we have to find the second one. The fact that you're trying to paint yourself and Blacle as the kill targets is just because you're the most stuck-up in your decisions and yes, that's why killing you teaches nothing. But you're mistaking the weight you put in your decisions for being a decisive NK target - aka a good player. You're not gonna convince me this way.

I also think Accountant hasn't jumped in IC Mode because an IC post would likely break the game, and I have not decided if I believe Accountant to be scum or not.

So, to both Tracker-claimers, feed all your targets and results.

[The MM]

Makes sense.

Though, something just caught my eye.

I feel like if MM is scum his scum buddy would have defended him but nobody has except RC and I find it hard to see MM and RC as buddies.

So I'd say this definitely looks more like soft-scumreading a buddy rather than pushing a ML on town.

What interest would Accountant have for soft-scumreading me? Like, everyone was scumreading me at this point in the game -- and some still do.

[The MM]

I'm pretty sure that'll determine the issue of the game. At least it'll make my choice.

[The MM]

But yeah The MM made a critical mistake. He pretty much lost it for Accountant.

How would RC conf me as town if I was so scummy? Like, you all put sucker tactics outta nowhere and decide the game on a roll just to see. If you're lynching me tomorrow, you'd still lose from lynching me in MyLo, and it's likely you blame me for your mistake; all because I just apparently have the scummiest flaw ever, which would be playing philantropist.
I believe until proof of contrary that the scumteam is Shisou-CFJ, and Blacle is stupid and only listens to people who lay down their opinion as fact, like CFJ is doing lately.

---

Yeah. Its between GL and The MM for the win tonmorrow. I'm pretty confident that its MM. This game is over .

That critical error man. I'll show you what did you in Post Game MM.

But yeah The MM made a critical mistake. He pretty much lost it for Accountant.

If I could I'd MFoS your butt, but I just think you're a tool, and even hastier than robby if not for the momentary "art of the Wall of Text" stint during day 2 (wait, even that doesn't change anything), but you take decisions just as biased and mistake idiocy for strength of opinion -- a perfect replacement into this slot from my point of view.

---

Before you try to pressure me with your opinion in oversized (or undersized) sentences, do yourself a favor and shut the fudge up or I'm gonna blow one.

[The MM]

Sure, but Blacle's annoying me with how he acts and how stupid he's sounding to me, so I'm getting the point across.

[The MM]

@TheMM: Do you still think there's any reasonable chance that Accountant could be town after #657 and #658? Those posts look a lot like Accountant has given up pretending to be town to me (which, let's face it, should have happened a while ago now).

Quite frankly, I'd be pissed at the vote bullying going on, so it's likely that I would do something similar -- or just flip a lid.

All of you but Accountant are just sitting on your horses and throwing verbal shitmissiles or something. At this rate, frankly I'll just refuse to vote, let Blacle die tonight because I really just can't look at him without questioning his ability to think anymore so scum would just want to kill him, and basically just do whatever the hell I want at this point because really, lol.

Oh wait, I forgot I gotta move real soon so there's a chance I can't just hang around anymore. Best thing since sliced bread honestly. So, I would vote Blacle or GL if only out of spite.

I've re-read the entire day and...

@BlacleWorks: I'm confirmed town, because I was Doctor-protected night 1.

There's literally no way to know that.

I will say that I get a very survivalist vibe from The MM, and since he does not have a PR this vibe seems extemely unwarranted.

I don't care about who's the PR, I'm trying to win the game on my lonesome -- triply so since you wouldn't trust me to save your lives.

There is a lot of calling Accountant of being a complete poser but be real: lately NOTHING has been brought to the table. You're all posers.

We

are all posers at this point.

So I'm gonna stick a last one in Blacle's face now, I'm willing to take the bet, my vote is clear: VOTE: CFJ
If town wins, then sure -- if scum wins, it's because town couldn't correctly cooperate and messed up a clincher. I'm tired of all the name-calling, I'm tired of the useless banter, and more importantly I'm tired of Blacle.

[The MM]

@BlacleWorks: I'm confirmed town, because I was Doctor-protected night 1.

There's literally no way to know that.

Elaborating from the wiki:

While this is highly frowned upon at mafiascum.net, some moderators will tell players that they were saved from death via a form of protection (i.e. Doctors).

[The MM]

Lets lynch accountant Already. UTL is the scum.

We're in MyLo man, what the hell..? Do you really want a scum victory this game or do you think that the scumteam is Accountant-UTL? Or anything else for that matter that would justify such a post?

[The MM]

Nope we are going to lynch accountant today.

It makes no sense. If you're 100% sure that you got a scumteam, you'd be happy with lynching whichever of both without discrimination. Just sayin'.

[The MM]

So basically I see:

- An IC that has nearly thrown away their purpose because of the attempt to play as a single player like any other
- Two idiots that are 100% driven on gut feeling
- A self-convinced player that is just standing on opposite sides with someone so much they've deafened themselves (that's CFJ just in case)
- ... and UTL

[The MM]

The game hinges on whether UTL will hammer Accountant or not at this point -- I certainly don't feel like doing that.

[The MM]

Don't worry, it's just me being pessimistic about not being babied around the game. But at this point I can't blame you for not delivering full-IC-mode posts. I'm getting bored just like you.

[The MM]

I'm more buddying Accountant in an outside-game perspective.

I think I forgot about you again, GL. My "apologies".

So, my last words before you lynch Accountant:
- Nowhere does it say I'm the scumbuddy because I'm not. I'm not gonna say that I don't look suspicious if Accountant flips scum tho, but consider other options.
- I'm sure CFJ and Accountant are on opposite sides of the fence. If Accountant flips town, we lose anyway. If Accountant flips scum, I trust CFJ.
- GL only swoops in when it's convenient.
-

BlacleWorks is incompetent.