Newbie 1694 (GAME OVER)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi!

Reading up now. Will try and get it all done Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Some context for my catch up - I know that GW and ReplaceIn have died. I will try to avoid their posts too much unless something catches my attention.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I've read the first 5 pages. I don't expect anyone to respond to the things I write here because it happened so long ago (but if you want to I would welcome it!) so here's where I'm at atm;

MrG is my only decent town read so far. I liked his defence of MT (MafiaTurtle) in 31, I also liked his vote on RTF (Raisus...) in 94. I didn't, however, like his unvote on the Ragno wagon when it reached L-1, stalls progression of the game. But I like his other posts enough to outweigh this right now.

Not too far behind is MT - everything about this slot is telling me newb-town. The idea about 'follow the cop' is not something scum would suggest as was his suggestion that the more experienced players are more likely to be scum - only newb town ever make this suggestion. I have yet to see that comment come from scum.

MC (MurderCat) - I think this slot could be town but I'm not too sure yet. He sheeped MrG twice (while MrG's posting has been good I'm not sure about the subtle sheeping from MC). The first was when MrG said MT could be town and then MC followed up saying he could be VI and he'll likely be moving his vote. Then he not so subtly sheeped MrG onto the Ragno wagon; I don't particularly like either of these things.

However, after this I liked both his 96 and his 110. 96 is along the same lines as what I was thinking and that usually comes from people who share the same alignment I do. 110 shows a healthy town paranoia about scum knowing the alignments of players and it's on the person he was sheeping which shows he is willing to reevaluate reads. On the flip side, it could be possible distancing after the sheeping, hence, I'm conflicted on his slot right now.

I don't like any of RTF, Shadow or Almost50. Shadow is less of a concern as the other two - it's mainly based on pre-flip associatives and my lack of understanding about how he was reading the current game-state. I don't get his town read on RTF and I don't understand how he liked RTF's awful reads-list either. This only makes Shadow scum if RTF is though - like he is avoiding addressing his buddies weak posting.

OK, so let's start with Almost50. 43 is a LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town) post, he is stating all of his reads to look like he is analyzing the game. The problem with this is simple - he doesn't have any reads. If he doesn't have any reads, what is the point of sharing them? The only conclusion I can come to is that it's an effort to look town, which is important for scum. I dislike his 117 - he is trying hard to cling onto an RVS vote (and states as much). This looks like scum who is having difficulty reevaluating the game state. I don't get his town read on RTF in 120 at all and his reasoning in 122 is pretty bad (I can go into detail here if needed).

As for RTF, I don't think I have liked a single post they have made - which is rare. His vote on MT for his soft claim in 13 is awful - scum would want to push this slot to get a full claim. In his 22, he tries to justify his MT read further by claiming he is flip flopping. Flip flopping is much more likely to come from town, scum don't want the attention of being all over the place - they always try to make sure they're as consistent as possible because that's what they think town looks like - but it doesn't. Again, I didn't like the timing of his jump onto the Ragno wagon (48) - felt opportunistic. Wagon was in the ascendancy and he still clearly had a problem with MT so I don't get the shift in votes. He commits the same crime as Almost50 in 69 - he produces a nice fancy reads-list. The problem? It contains NO READS. Well, I lie, it contains one. A soft town read on Almost50 - which obviously makes my jaw hit the floor because wtf?

So, that took a lot longer than expected. It may take me a little longer than originally stated to catch up but I'll get it done. Will read another 5 pages later on, hopefully they're just as entertaining.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Continuing catch up

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I have read the next 5 pages and here are some thoughts;

MrG is still town and I have seen no reason to question this read. I liked his vote on Almost50 in 152 and I agree with all of his reads in his 187. He is exactly where I'm at at this point of the game and I like that.

MC is also still a town read. 149 was a really solid post, and despite my disagreeing with a couple of the reads, he still says a lot of things where I find I'm nodding my head as I'm reading his posts. I liked his TRs but I don't get the null read on RTF, despite MC saying himself there were a few scum points in there and I don't get the MrG scum read either.

MT/CT - Not too much from this slot so far but I like the entrance with the vote on RTF. Nice.

Again, that leaves Shadow, Almost50 and RTF/Laser. Let's start with Shadow;

I don't understand how he could interpret RTF's replace out as town. Why was it not scum who got frustrated with everyone scum reading him? When RI questioned him on this, he proceeded to try and use semantics to try and worm his way out of the question/pressure. It was a really bad exchange from Shadow. He has also been throwing a lot of shade on my slot without a) actually pushing Madonna and b) voting for Madonna. It's like he was trying to get the wagon going but didn't want to be a part of it until it really took off. I see he has made an actual attempt at a push at the bottom of page 10 though so I guess I'll see what happens with that soon.

In his 241, he appears to be questioning GW about an inconsistency. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Shadow said that inconsistency is more likely to come from town (which I agree with) so I don't get his push on GW here.

Almost50 now. I don't understand where his vote on MrG come from in 137 - there is very little reasoning behind it that I can see. 162 comes from a scum mindset - it shows that Almost50 is aware of how he might be perceived and is intentionally avoiding doing things that might draw attention. Town do not care for such things, they want to catch scum by any means necessary. Almost50 also seems much happier talking about theory than actually doing things. He came to life when people started asking HOW he would scum hunt - this is a favourite for scum. By talking about HOW they would scum hunt, it provides a distraction to ACTUALLY scum hunting and it also creates the impression that he is busy, active, engaged and playing in a 'pro-town' manner which is completely false.

In his 162, he claims that MrG and GW are scum reads (awful reads btw) and then in 213 this has changed to MrG and RI and now he has finished for the day...what? I understand this is easy to say in hindsight but RI was town as fuck and MrG is in my top town reads - these reads are awful from Almost50. I also want to know what happened to the Ghost scum read between 162 and 213 and where did the RI read come from?

And now for RTF/Laser. His vote (156) and unvote (163) on Almost50 was sketchy as fuck - he votes because he wants content. Almost50 provides a post talking about how he would scum hunt (providing very little content) and RTF somehow classifies this as content and unvotes and I'm just left like

The stranger thing is that in his reads in 196, he has Almost50 still as a scum read...why is he not pressuring Almost50 more? He also scum reads MrG for 'vote hopping' which is never a scum tell. His lean-scum read on MC is laughable as well.

OK, so all in all, very little change in my reads. MrG isn't as strong a read as he was as I feel his contribution has slowed down somewhat but he is still a town read. MC is my biggest town read despite me not agreeing with some of their reads, he is posting a lot of good things.

Will be looking to see more from CT to develop a read further. Shadow has moved into scum terrority for me and Almost50 and RTF have switched places - I think Almost50 is the best shot at finding scum but they're both still heavy scum reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Toffee

: That inconsistencies, in general, are more likely to come from town, does not mean I should not ask people about specific inconsistencies. I also said that inconsistencies, like almost everything else, are not "scum tells"

per se

, but that certain inconsistencies can very well give away scum.

Same question that went to replace goes to you, by the way: Explain to me how Raisus' replacement post is coming from scum! Your general "a player's getting frustrated under pressure is indicative of that player being scum" stance is not only dead wrong but also way to unspecific.

Another question to you: Why do you consider it suspicious of players actually put time and thought into developing their reads instead of pretending to have strong reads when they could not possibly have them because the game has barely taken off?

It does mean that it is strange for you to push on inconsistencies when it suits you though. Tell me, what was the scum motivation for GW to push you and not somebody else? I cut out a large part of your first paragraph because it was jargon to make you look like you were doing stuff.

I didn't say it was coming from scum; nice misrep (same thing you did to RI, right?) I questioned you on why you thought it was a town replace out. It could be a town replace out, it could be a scum replace out - as far as I'm concerned, it's completely null. Now, why was it town?

What makes you think I'm suspicious of people putting time into reads-lists?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Next 5 pages have completely shaken my view on the game - I feel as if I'm on a different planet to almost everyone else as I'm reading the game, I don't know whether it's because I wasn't there in real time but my word, this is difficult.

MrG almost completely reversed my read on him with a single post - 278 is shockingly bad. This looks like scum who doesn't know how to fake scum hunting, he is trying to ask people to get him engaged with the game. I cannot state how much I dislike this post.

The reason my read isn't a scum read on MrG is because I still like his reads and some of his posting. His scum reads in 296 are good, looking to lynch Almost50 or Shadow. Me likey. I also like that he is pushing back against the wagon on RI (344) because RI is a counter-wagon to his own and scum don't do these kinds of things. Eat a big, fat dick bitch, that's not my car. Unfortunately, this reason is slightly diluted because there was also another wagon countering Glidder (Almost) who was a scum read of his, so, meh. Still a town read but not a strong one at all anymore.

MC also done a great job of butchering my town read on him. Well done! Again, I liked that he was questioning the RI wagon (274) but I really, really, really did not like his 276. I don't get the back pedaling on the RTF read for a start - how did you differentiate between frustrated town and panicking scum? Like, what are the major differences between the two?

Then, and this is the biggie, you join the wagon that Almost is pushing. You know, that scum read you have? Why on earth would you join a wagon that one of your main scum reads is pushing? That makes 0 sense to me.

So yeah, I don't know what to think about MC anymore? Still town? Could be, but man my reads are getting killed in this game.

CT's reasons for town reading Almost were weak in 257, Almost does nothing but talk about HOW he would play as town and I just don't see why this would equal a town read at all. Why would scum not talk about how they would play as town? I would also like to know what in particular you found in RTF's play that was an improvement? (259)

He does however get town points for his unvote of MrG (299). I don't think scum unvote MrG here - he is at L-1, what would that achieve? Assuming my read on MrG is correct and he is indeed town, scum just need to sit on this wagon until deadline draws near. I like this unvote but I don't like where the vote moves to. His scum reads in 331 are awful as well

Shadow didn't provide a whole lot during these 5 pages, the only thing I found note-worthy was the lynch pool in 304, which contains myself and my town reads. Nice. Still scum then.

Laser's reads-list upon entry was pretty bad (273), I disagree with a lot of the reads; the town reads on Almost and Shadow, the scum read on RI, the liking of the MrG bandwagon and the comment about not being able to read MC. I thought MC was pretty easy to read up to the point of this post.

After this, he states MC's recent posting was good (it wasn't) and comes around to a town read. So Laser had the exact opposite reaction to MCs posting to what I did. Excellent.

Almost50 did absolutely nothing that I found worth commenting on in 5 pages. This slot is 100% scum.

So, all in all, I have lost my faith in my town reads and my scum reads continue to be scummy. At least CT moved from a null to a lean town read. Gotta take the positives...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's one person who isn't even reading my posts.

Then again, I don't expect scum to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's another one not reading my posts.

What the fuck.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You are?

OK, I have reason to believe you're not and I'll share it when everyone else has 'read' my post and responded in thread.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In fact, I'm willing to bet that MrG will be the first person to 'read' my post.

Let's wait and see. Exciting, eh?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, someone wants to engage me! Excellent!

Why not? If you were scum and about to be lynched why would you not give up? Scum always feel the burden, especially as they're a small team - if one gets lynched they feel like they let their team down. Newb!scum don't respond to pressure well. So, again, how do you differentiate between the two?

Also, consider this; what is more frustrating than someone scum reading you when they don't even have evidence to back it up? How do you defend yourself against that, huh?

Again, I will reiterate that I do not think the replace out is scum. I think it was null. I'm merely playing devils advocate to get people to see the errors in their ways.

The problem is that Almost was pushing the MrG wagon - Almost was a scum read of yours. By default, you should not trust a persons reads if you're scum reading them. So it begs the question as to why you would join a wagon that your scum read is pushing - do you see the flaws in the thought process you're displaying here?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, maybe trusting reads was the wrong way to phrase it and we're clearly not getting anywhere with this discussion either as you don't seem to be able to see my problem with what you did.

What I'm trying to say is this. You know how I have scum read Almost pretty much since I started reading this game? Well, imagine Almost is voting someone who isn't me and then I JOIN Almost on that very same wagon. You wouldn't question that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I won't be getting lynched. I can assure you of that.

I'm not saying you HAVE to respond. I'm saying you're not reading my posts.

Scum leave all the time when under pressure - it's not like that's the reason they give for replacing out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I knew MrG would catch it. People always pay attention the most to where their names are but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be reading all of my posts!

The above is how I knew Almost50 and MurderCat WERE NOT reading my posts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd lynch you first and go from there.

Would depend on my strongest scum read though tbf, but I didn't get the impression (and MC has stated as much) that his scum reads were equal on each player or that his scum read was stronger on MrG than it was on you.

PEdit - It's a very simple concept as to why MrG spotted it and I explained it. Do you disagree? Why would you not question a random sentence placed in there like that? Or at least acknowledge it. Don't try and act like you saw it, you didn't.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure, you noticed it and just ignored it. Of course you did, your reaction to this is appalling.

I'll be making a push on you. Don't you worry about that my friend, you won't be getting rid of me any time soon.

I have to finish catching up but when I have, expect to get roped. Enjoy your place in this game while it lasts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why am I scum again MC?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In fact, Almost can answer that as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, so you don't actually have any reasoning?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right.

You got me.

Man, you're good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It wasn't a trap.

It was purely to see who was reading my posts and who wasn't. But Almost's reaction was pretty bad to it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum motivation for what I did CT?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What felt fake about it? What purpose does it serve?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It also wasn't a reaction test so it would be great if you could stop calling it that.

I was checking who was reading my posts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I was annoyed at people not reading my posts.

What a fake reaction that is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, even if I were scum, why would I not be annoyed that people are not reading my posts?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, no, they didn't. They claimed they did but I don't think so.

What they did was skim to see where their name was and read that part, which is what the majority of people do and it's annoying because it takes a lot of time and effort to write those posts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It wasn't meant as abusive, I just really wanted it to stand out. Like, I wasn't saying it TO someone, it was just there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, it is what it is. I have said what it was, you disagree.

I have read to the end of page 15.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

324 is not a post from me...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, I see.

I don't know why that post changed your read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He talks about how he plays the game. I don't know why a) that deserves a town read and b) why he wouldn't post that as scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am saying what I see and I'm telling you that Almost is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll be continuing (and finishing yay!) my catch up in roughly 15 mins time. I'm not sure what to think of CT's sudden back off of me though? He seemed pretty sure I was scum before and in the face of a little resistance he gives up on the push? Me no likey.

CT, can you just go over your reads for me please? In particular, talk about how MC is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It wasn't a reaction test. Also, just because you don't like something that doesn't mean it is scummy.

Examples of MC's floaty reads? Also, why is it scummy for his reads to change?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Give me examples?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm gonna see if I can finish reading this game sometime tonight. Tried reading earlier and pages 16-18 were just a blur, nothing was going in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gonna try reading up again now

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll get to Shadow when I'm caught up but he is misrepping the shit out of me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, read up to page 20 now. Almost there, these 5 pages were mostly people recycling the same arguments so there wasn't a whole lot of stuff to go off of.

The only note I made on Shadow was I disliked his discrediting of the SE (426). SEs are not obliged to do anything, and just because they're an SE, that also doesn't mean they're supposed to be better players than Newbies. To become an SE, all you have to do is play two Newbie games and one Newbie game outside of the Road to Rome. So you attempting to discredit a player because they're an SE, as the IC in a game, is absolutely appalling. What does being an SE have to do with alignment?

I disliked Laser's discrediting of RI's vote as well. felt contrived, 409. Initally, I liked that he spoke out against the Glidder wagon even though he listed Glidder as a null read. But then when he goes on to not being able to explain this read very well in 413, I don't like it anymore. He shouldn't be speaking out against a lynch unless he has reasons for doing so - that looks like scum who knows Glidder is town. I do really like 457 though, there is a clear thought progression throughout the entire post. I like that he is looking at player interactions trying to exclude certain teams of players, basically town hunting.

461 is a town post from CT. I know scum could fake this but it just doesn't feel like that. It feels like he is expecting RI to flip scum and already knows who is going to after the next Day. Newb!scum especially don't usually go down this line.

I didn't get MC's reasoning for Glidder scum at all in 411. Why is it scummy to jump on a wagon with no reasoning? Why is it scummy to give out early town reads? And why is it scummy that he has no scum reads? He does however say he is suspicious of Shadow so I'm interested to see where this goes.

Glidder did absolutely nothing on those 5 pages. My town read is officially dead on him.

As for Almost, well he just continues to scum it up. He is quite clearly trying to direct PRs in 387 - making sure they stay away from him. I also want to see this crumb he has dropped and people should be aware that scum are more than capable of crumbing.

PEdit - Well, shit. Looks like I'm getting lynched. At least let me finish catching up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'm caught up to my replace in and I'm going to leave it there as I have read the rest inbetween catching up.

So, here is where I'm at;

I'm town reading CT, Laser and to a lesser extent MC. I don't want to lynch any of these three today.

I would be happy, nay, ecstatic if we could lynch Shadow or Almost today, I really don't mind which one we go for. I'm gonna need some more time, maybe some real time interactions with MrG so I can sort him. When he does post, I feel like he is town but then he goes missing for huge chunks of the game and when he returns he bears no gifts.

With that being said;

VOTE: Almost

I'm going to respond to Shadow now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum would not ask where they are "so off", because scum being called scum would not have the mindset of having done something wrong, but just not good enough. Likewise the "not having fun and quitting forum" part. This level of frustration, not only at this game but also at the site and our ways of playing mafia as whole, can only come from town, or from some one with string narcissistic personality tendencies. Raisus did not strike me as the latter, so this leaves only the possibility that he was town or faking it, and I don't see him as experienced enough to fake such an emotional reaction either.

And now finally you explain me why you think it is "completely null"?

What? Are you saying scum don't get caught for the wrong reasons? I know that's not what you're trying to say. Scum can 'not have fun and quit' if they're consistently scum read despite their best efforts. Sometimes, people don't like being scum, it's even worse if they're caught scum.

It's null because I could see either alignment replacing out like that for various reasons.

You attack quite a few of them (Almost, Raisus) for "not having strong enough reads" — on around page 5 or so!

Wrong again. This is a misrep. I did not attack either of them for 'not having strong reads.' You're suggesting I was attacking the content of their posts, I was not.

What I was saying is that there is no need to provide those reads-lists because they contained no reads. So, if you have no reads (which is perfectly fine by page 5) then there is no point in producing a reads-list because you have nothing to share. Except, there is a point if you want to try and look pro-town, if you want to try and look like you're analyzing the game and evaluating reads. That's what scum need to do.

Toffee's insinuation that people not read his posts is just mind-bogglingly ridiculous. It's just one more of many more instances were he seems to deliberately try to give things just that tiny little twist, throw them around and see what sticks...

Yawwwwwwwwwwn.

Once again, I did not say 'Hey, you must be scum for not reading my posts!' I merely stated that I knew they were not reading my posts and it was annoying. If you can show me scum reading them for not reading my posts, I'll eat my words and self-vote. But you won't, because I didn't say that. This is another misrep. It's also another reason why it was not a reaction test - I was not looking to gain reads from what I did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What can I say, I'm sorry you're scum?

You have been a scum read of mine pretty much all game and you are the only read that has not changed. I'm supremely confident that you're scum. I also have confidence that given time, and real-time interactions, I will be able to sort Glidder. Although, it seems like I won't need to as Shadow is looking likely to be scum as well.

PEdit - Yeah, is Glidder the only person who doesn't want to lynch me? Coz that's kinda sad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I doubt I do, I'm usually pretty good at this game. I catch scum, it's what I do.

I'm not sure what I think about that post though. Hmm.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For you to say you have bled town is just laughable - you have been by far and away the scummiest player in this game from the beginning. If you are town, we need to have some words post-game because you need to cut some shit out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Shadow

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is Shadow not an option for you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd go with the bottom 5% tbh.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey now, hold your horses.

Why the rush?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Shadow, what are you talking about? It's like you're having a conversation all by yourself.

Yeah, the replace out is null. Quite frankly, if you can't argue back to why I think scum would replace out like that then you're forced to accept my position. Therefore, the replace out is null.

I have quite clearly shown where you misrepped me. I even wrote the words 'here is where you misrepped me'. I don't know how I can make it any more clear than that. Right, so I'm glad we're in agreement that a) it was not a reaction test and b) I did not call anyone scum for not reading my posts (even though you tried to misrep me and claim that I did). I have no idea what your last two sentences are supposed to say.

So because you can't refute my argument it becomes a circular argument? Yeah, go figure. Again, it's not about the content of the posts. You are really reaching hard here to misrep me and it's pretty disgusting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can someone explain the case against me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's funny because I feel like a large part of the reason people are scum reading me is because I'm a likely scum buddy for Glidder. Which is bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it would be stupendously obvious to play like that as scum buddies.

I also think that scum reading me based on pre-flip associatives is not good scum hunting. Add in to the fact that I have already stated I need to reevaluate my read on Glidder and I just don't get the scum reads on me at all.

You didn't answer why you wouldn't go near Shadow either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

MC, you should leave the Glidder wagon, be a hero, and join the Shadow wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aww man, whoever that was was giving you bad advice! You should absolutely sheep your scum reads.

You want the glory. I know you do. Sheep me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

MrG, you should also sheep me. Then we achieve a Shadow lynch and we have found scum.

I'm too good at this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes. Yes it was.

Pedit - Great! One of MC/MrG will sheep me soon. I know it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

MC, can you stop being silly for one moment please?

Tell me why I am scum and I will show you why you're wrong and then we'll get to actually lynching scum.

Deal?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will post don't worry

Ok, it will have to wait until later though.

Second time you have done this.

How long do I have to wait?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You did?

I ISO'd you and didn't see it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, I see it.

Sandwiched in when you did the whole Madonna/Glidder thing.

The only reason you give is that it 'looks like I'm painting a picture.' Can you expand on that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't care what you said about Madonna.

I want to know why you think I'm scum and why nothing I have done has caused you to reevaluate your read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, it's a pretty essential component of the game.

It also gives me the chance to defend myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ouch, I just got prodded!

Sorry guys, busy weekend before I went back to work. Will post tonight when I get home

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will get to this in roughly one hour.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I'm here and reading up now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I saw two huge walls about me so I'm gonna do 'em one at a time.

In 542, BBT is already starting to scum read Almost, while over-analyzing some really mundane posts (43, 117). The criticisms on the other posts are fine, but the fact that he's calling these posts out really makes me think he is trying to sell something because there is really nothing scummy about those posts. He is also townreading Glidder despite some huge red flags such as sheeping in 94 and snap calling replace town 109. BBT conviently fails to comment on these posts (but apparently posts like 43 and 117 are worthy of a comment). There's also a weak case made against Shadow.

Firstly, why is 'over-analyzing' scummy? Secondly, why is it even over-analyzing? I saw things I disliked and I explained my reasoning. If you have something to say about my reasoning, let's hear it; otherwise all you're doing here is trying to discredit me by saying things like 'over-analyzing' and 'weak cases'. Generic terms that don't really mean anything or serve any purpose.

I'm scum because I'm town reading someone who is putting red flags up to

you

? In what world would that affect

my

read? Just because I'm not scum reading the same people you are, that does not make me scum. I'm also scum because I don't comment on posts that you think I should? (Again, this is a reference to people scum reading me based on the pre-flip associative of a BBT/Glidder team).

In 552, Almost is still a strong scum read. He continues to completely ignore some points against Glidder. The case against Shadow is developing, also based on really weak points like 241 (which is a totally reasonable post) is bad. He totally misreps what shadow was talking about when discussing inconsistency.

Why did you feel the need to include my read on Almost? In what world is that scummy? I was scum reading him after page 5, I was still scum reading him after page 10...shock horror! What was I thinking? Your reasons for scum reading me are flat out bad to this point.

Why is my case against Shadow weak? What do you disagree with? Why? Again, generic statements purely designed to discredit me. I didn't misrep Shadow, I pulled him up on his inconsistency tell, just because he finished his sentence with the addition 'there are exceptions though' doesn't mean I shouldn't pull him up on it and find out why it's an exception.

Then in 558 he calls out Glidder (but won't actually scum read him) and says Almost and Shadow are scum team. He basically fails to update these reads at all even though things like 262 (he pointed out that it was weird Shadow didn't vote) and 324 (which made me reconsider how almost was playing) happened.

Now you're just providing a narrative on what I have done; there is no reasoning or pointing out of scum motivation here at all. I'm pretty sure my reads were updated and I'm pretty sure at the top of that page I state that those 5 pages completely shook my view on the game (as can be seen via my reads and reasons.)

In 659, BBT continues to totally ignore any towny posts shadow and almost make (even using the fact that almost crumbed against him). Still no read development. The town read on glidder is apparently dead.

In 660, he votes almost so he is really trying to make that lynch happen. Does anyone else really think that almost is scum? Or a good lynch today?

I mean, if I saw Shadow making any townie posts I would have pointed them out. The fact is, he didn't. Again, just because we have different opinions that doesn't make me scum. There has also been plenty of read development and all of my reads were explained in detail, so now you're lying.

That last sentence...my word, you're not even trying anymore. My town read on MrG is 'apparently dead'. Anything to discredit me. If Shadow flips scum, please lynch MC next.

He is also happy to just keep Glidder null even though Glidder has literally contributed nothing all game and has multiple scummy posts.

My point is that his reads on almost and shadow have been 100% constant throughout 31 pages of content. Does no one else find that to be suspicious? If BBT is scum with Glidder who is he going to try to mislynch? He knows chilled is obv town and he can't get me or laser lynched. So that just leaves shadow and almost. He goes through his catch up posts calling out anything that could potentially be seen as scummy and refuses to really acknowledge anything pro town that they do. So that's why I feel like he is trying to sell something.

MrG also has multiple town looking posts which makes him difficult to sort.

My reads on Shadow and Almost have been constant - correct. So what? The point is they varied in their degrees of scumminess, so it's not like they didn't move at all. They just didn't move how you wanted them to move. It's also easy for you to attack my Almost read because you were fully caught up with the game and knew that Almost was universally town read - that gave you an easy angle to attack me from.

You're also making the presumption that I knew the current game-state, which is false. I saw who died and got lynched, and I read from the beginning of the game to the end. Tell me, if I had known the current game-state, of all the people I would scum read, why Almost? That would be the dumbest thing ever.

So, I'm either scum who read the game and decided to scum read the most universally town read player (sounds a lot like suicide) during my catch up, or I'm a townie who completely got it wrong. Seems fairly obvious which one it is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So you honestly want to claim that you were implying a town mindest when you were accusing people of not reading your posts?! Besides that, you have yet to present any evidence for their not reading your posts, and no, not the slyzzle itself.

I'm saying it was not an attempt to gain any reads; I was looking who was reading my posts. I don't know how many times I have to say this.

Why has your read on Almost not been developing when his reads developed?

Why would Almost reads developing affect my read on him? Like, that question shouldn't even be allowed to be written because it makes so little sense.

Also, my read on Almost has completely 180'd, so, there's that.

So who is not reading post now, all of a sudden?

Show me where a case was made against me before that post.

Again, just pretending no one had actual issues with him, whereas in reality it is more like that people are more suspicious of Glidder due to his association with Madonna/Toffee.

I have proven this wrong in the quote above. So, nope, no misrepping from me.

His sudden distancing to Glidder is noted though (either way, it's all WIFOM, to begin with).

Right...so why mention it?

So my reasonable doubt about Glidder's explanation for not doing anything on day 1 is suddenly "discrediting of the SE". If SE qualification does indeed as little as he gives it credit for, there is no discrediting in the first place. And it completely side steps the issue that SE players can be expected to have at least some solid idea of what they ought to do and how to be be a good example for newbies (which is why there are an IC and SEs in newbie games in the first place).

SE status is not an indication of playing ability. That was my point, you know this and you are still trying to misrep me. You tried to use MrG's SE status as some sort of means of scum reading him, which is scummy as fuck.

...That's it?

I want people to actually read Shadow's 'case' on me. Have a look at what I can actually respond to and have a look at how much of it is pure fluff to make his post look nice and long.

Lynch this with fire.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd hardly call a vote move from one scum read to the other a changing read but we can ask him. BBT, is your top scum team still shadow and Almost?

Nope. Shadow/MC (you!) are scum.

At this point, both Toffee and Shadow have equal information coming from each of their lynches. I just want to make sure I lynch the scum in these two.
@Shadow- I would rather not lynch for information, but I'm pretty sure if we lynch one, then the maf are easy to find. If you haven't realized, I'm 95% confident that I have this game down

Talk to me about why you think I'm scum.

Laser get claims first please. I prefer BBT claim first of course but you can choose the order.

No, mass claiming Today is bad. Scum want a mass claim to find out who is what, we don't need that. Mass claim is for LyLo.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Caught up.

I'm ready to lynch Shadow and move the game forwards.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How does anyone think Shadow is town?

He thought he was hammered and he tried his best to create a WIFOM storm for who his potential partner is.

He is clearly scum. That self vote won't count (but it should). Make sure he is hanmered.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If Shadow flips town and you lynch me I'm telling you we lose the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, this game is easy.

VOTE: MC

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm sure it is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah because, you know, it's bad when your buddies get lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He fought Shadow's lynch the whole time.

What are you talking about?

Pedit - if you're town, you meed to talk. But you're scum, so you can hang.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Which is very easy for scum to fake CT.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am intrigued as to who you think is scum though.

Enlighten me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it's a very easy thing to do yes.

If MC isn't scum, who is?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Roleclaiming now is awful.

Save it for MyLo/LyLo, all you're doing is giving scum information.

PEdit - It's easily fakebale though. Why Almost?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, IIRC Shadow tried to make a push on MrG so I'm not going anywhere near him today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Almost isn't scum.

Try again MC. I warned you about pre-flip associatives so if you're town you only have yourself to blame.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How is MrG scum with Shadow? In what world does that make sense?

I need to get on a laptop and double check that Shadow pushed MrG as hard as I think he did.

MC do not claim. It's only beneficial to scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Although this is interesting.

Becauae that sounded town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just realised I spoke to you as if you were a town read which means I'm borderline conf biasing you as scum no matter what.

I need to look at some VCs from D1 and let this day play out for a bit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I remember Shadow pushing MrG hard. If MC isn't scum then it has to be CT because I'm pretty sure Almost and Laser are town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah CT, I was scum reading Almost HARD from the start of the game and then he obv towned late on in D2 and forced me to completely reevaluate my read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is your last post supposed to say something CT?

It would be anti-town to explain it (though it might not matter) but I'll leave it to Almost if he wants to explain it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Could BBT and Shadow really be scum team? They were at each others throats from very early on day 2 and BBT had shadow as a scum read since he replaced in. Like the only way that makes sense to me is if Shadow was like I'm sick of this game, bus me as hard as you can and get me lynched in scum chat.

This might be the craziest thing I have ever read.

Also, there is no day-talk and I replaced in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've already told you MrG is very likely town if Shadow pushed him the way I think he did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It might still matter.

I'd rather wait until everyone has posted.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh I see, I thought you were throwing out a general thought; not responding to CT.

I plan to CT, as soon as I get on a laptop.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll get to this later. That is a part of my reason Almost but I thought you were telling me something yesterday but now I don't think you were and I'm confused.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think this is beneficial to town to claim at all.

Almost could be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry guys, will be on after the football.

I completely agree with MrG: we need to scum hunt. Not start mass claiming or finding some other method. They almost never work because scum ALWAYS have more information.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you have a case on MC for me to read when I read up?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We have played together before I believe!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you're guessing I'm probably going to want to lynch you.

There is more than enough information in this game for you not to be guessing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CT, I haven't read anything yet. I'll do it tonight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'm here and I have some time now. Was in no mood after the football yesterday.

Again, trying to find methods to 'catch' scum won't work as scum always have more information and can manipulate the direction of the game because of this. Scum hunting is always the best way to try and find scum.

I want to ISO Shadow and see what that tells me and then I'm going to do some VCA from D1. Both of these things will take a fair bit of time but I'll have them up as soon as I have done them and it will be today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

29 - This post is talking to MT who is now CT. Shadow appears to think that MT is role-fishing for his role, but he doesn't push it. It's very down the middle. If Shadow really thought that MT was fishing for his role, I would expect an attack. Scum points for CT.

34 - Initially, I thought this post was a point for MC not being Shadow's buddy but he moves his vote pretty swiftly with little reason in 56. Could be an early attempt at distancing.

103 - Says he doesn't understand the case on RTF. I thought RTF was pretty scummy in early game so this is a big red flag for me. Scum points for LVP.

126 - Very interesting point. First he tries to dismiss the case against RTF, then he attacks MrG whilst also (again) throwing shade at the MT slot without actually pushing it. Second time he has done this now. Scum points for both LVP and CT, town points for MrG (why would he attack and vote his buddy here when he clearly has numerous options he could pursue?)

204 - Here comes the 'RTF replace out was so town' bullshit. This was a very weak reason to get a hold of a strong town read on the RTF slot (did he ever reevaluate this read?). I didn't like it when he did it and I dislike it even more now that I know he was scum. RTF/LVP is looking like a good candidate for Shadow's buddy. Also, note the difference in reads in this post. Shadow says that both RTF and MT replaced out as 'frustrated townies' yet RTF gets a solid town read and the CT slot just gets a 'fresh start'. Why no solid town read here? Town points to CT and yet more scum points to the LVP slot.

To this point, I have noticed very little interaction with Almost - not sure what this means yet but making a note in case I forget about it.

244 - Continues his push on MrG - this makes no sense if MrG is his buddy. He is ruling out other lynches to push based on super weak reasons just to push his buddy? No, I don't think so.

302 - Not scum on scum because of the tone. At this point, as I was earlier in the game, I am very content with a MrG town read and he is highly unlikely to be Shadow's buddy.

304 - Shadow's lynch pool - RI, Madonna, MrG. I know two of these are town and the third is very likely town based off of interactions so far. Shadow's buddy is 100% outside of his lynch pool so anyone pushing MrG right now seriously needs to reconsider where they're at.

354 - Yet more pushing of MrG.

426 - More pushing on the MrG slot. THERE IS NO WAY MRG IS SCUM WITH SHADOW. 100% NOT A CHANCE. I knew I remembered Shadow pushing the MrG slot way too hard based on weak reasoning. This was where he tried to discredit MrG for being an SE as well. It's all just so scummy. He is trying hard to formulate some sort of attack that is based on very weak reasoning. If anyone still thinks MrG is scum after reading this, I want to know a) what you disagree with b) why and c) reasoning for MrG being scum.

Alright, that's Day One covered. So far, most likely to least likely to be scum; (also noting there was still very little in terms of meaningful interactions between Almost and Shadow. Shadow hasn't even attempted to read Almost.

LVP

MC

Almost

CT

MrG

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Day Two

533 - Shadow is responding to MC's 'case' on him. The first thing I checked was to see where MC's case came from, and it came from MC rereading the game. My first gut feeling is this is a set-up, scum distancing from each other at the beginning of a DP, so I'm interested in watching this because I can't remember what happens. Shadow dislikes MCs attempts at discrediting his Madonna case; I wonder if he pushes MC? I'm really not sure what to make of this interaction the more I read it but MC's read came out of nowhere and Shadow's response is just well structured and hits every point. I just don't like it.

He also takes a pot-shot at Laser saying that Laser is PR fishing. Of course, he follows all of this by stating he is still suspicious of MrG.

553 - Shadow has a serious problem with Laser fishing for PRs...why isn't he voting him?

654 - Shadow/Laser interactions are diffusing pretty underwhelmingly. He gives reasons for why he is starting to get bad vibes from the Laser slot but then he goes back to how strong his town read on RTF was based on the replace out and Laser is now 'null'. This is a really indicative post of a Shadow/Laser scum team IMO. Shadow wants the town cred for pointing out Laser's scummy posts but he doesn't actually want to push that wagon just yet in case a lynch goes through. He has other options (MrG/myself) to push instead of Laser.

655 - He starts giving town points to MrG, I believe this is an an effort to start getting players onside for his push that he is telegraphing on me.

657 - MCs read on Shadow was fabricated...what the fuck? I completely forgot about this. What does that even mean in terms of a MC/Shadow team? That would be a lot of effort for scum to go through just to then call it all fake? (although the interaction between the two died out pretty quickly considering how indepth the case was) My head is hurting thinking about this, but I think it's town points for MC? Someone help me out.

744 - Big case against CT. Whilst this could be last minute distancing, I seriously doubt it. It looks like Shadow is trying to set up another possible lynch. Town points for CT, I really don't see this as scum vs scum.

762 - More pushing on the CT slot, I'm fairly content now that CT is town. Shadow realises that it's going to get messy taking me on and he is looking down another avenue just in case it doesn't work out. Now, I don't know whether Shadow got stubborn, but I don't know why he didn't take the CT route when he starting losing his 1v1 with me? That doesn't make sense and points towards it all being for show. Hmm, distancing is certainly possible but it just doesn't feel like that. I'm leaning on CT being town, just not as sure.

779 - Explicitly linking CT with me. If CT was his buddy, he would be trying to set me up as the following mislynch should he manage to get CT lynched. But again, why didn't Shadow push on CT instead of me? He would have to do that in order to link the two of us together. I'm going to go with my gut and say that he was trying to set up a potential mislynch on CT if it didn't work on me and he just got stubborn in trying to take me on. CT is town.

824 - Shadow quotes a post showing Laser voted him. Why the fuck would scum!Laser vote Shadow over me? If Laser is scum that was a ballsy move, Laser could be town. He had no reason to vote Shadow over me there.

Again, no meaningful interactions with Almost. Almost has been a town read of his for the entire game without him actually stating it and without him actually showing why. It's just

there

. That is setting off huge red flags for me.

That's everything. Those last few posts have threw me for a loop. Here's where I'm at based on interactions; (most to least likely)

Almost

MC

CT

Laser

MrG

Laser is purely for his vote on Shadow - scum!Laser just doesn't need to vote Shadow there unless he thought Shadow was getting the worse of it and he wanted the cred for the vote. I feel that it was pretty close between myself and Shadow and there were times I thought I was going to be the lynch so I find it hard to believe Laser saw Shadow as a sinking ship. Laser/VP categorically not scum with Shadow.

CT highly unlikely due to Shadow's attempted late push on him.

Scum is in MC/Almost.

VCA coming up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I have collected all the VCs I believe could hold relevant information. I have left out earlier VCs and some VCs that repeated the previous VC.

Spoiler: Coloured VCs

VC 1.3

RagnorokX

[L-1]

- Almost50, Mr Glidder, MURDERCAT, RaisusTheFlammie

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Mafiaturtle

Almost50 [L-4]

- Madonna

MURDERCAT [L-4]

-

Shadow Dancer

Madonna [L-4]

-

RagnorokX

Not Voting:

WhiskeyBuffalo

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes: Still waiting on a replacement for the WhiskeyBuffalo slot.

VC 1.4

RagnorokX

[L-1]

- Almost50, MURDERCAT, RaisusTheFlammie,

Shadow Dancer

Madonna [L-4]

-

RagnorokX

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Mafiaturtle

RaisusTheFlammie [L-4]

- Madonna

Not Voting:

Ghostwheel

, Mr Glidder

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes: RagnorokX has been prodded.

VC 1.5

RagnorokX

[L-3]

- Almost50,

Shadow Dancer

Madonna [L-3]

-

RagnorokX

, RaisusTheFlammie

RaisusTheFlammie [L-3]

- Madonna, Mr Glidder

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Mafiaturtle

Not Voting:

Ghostwheel

, MURDERCAT

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes: RagnorokX has about 4 hours to post before I look for a replacement.

VC 1.7

RaisusTheFlammie [L-3]

- Madonna, Mr Glidder

Mr Glidder [L-3]

-

Shadow Dancer

, Almost50

Madonna [L-4]

- RaisusTheFlammie

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Mafiaturtle

Almost50 [L-4]

-

Replace In

Not Voting:

Ghostwheel

, MURDERCAT

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.8

Mr Glidder

[L-2]

-

Shadow Dancer

, Almost50, MURDERCAT

RaisusTheFlammie [L-4]

- Mr Glidder

Madonna [L-4]

- RaisusTheFlammie

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Mafiaturtle

Almost50 [L-4]

-

Replace In

Ghostwheel

[L-4]

- Madonna

Not Voting:

Ghostwheel

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.9

Mr Glidder

[L-2]

-

Shadow Dancer

, Almost50, MURDERCAT

Shadow Dancer

[L-2]

- Mafiaturtle, Madonna,

Ghostwheel

Almost50 [L-3]

-

Replace In

, Mr Glidder

Not Voting:

, RaisusTheFlammie

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.10

Mr Glidder

[L-2]

-

Shadow Dancer

, Almost50, MURDERCAT

Shadow Dancer

[L-3]

- Mafiaturtle, Madonna

Almost50 [L-3]

-

Replace In

, Mr Glidder

Not Voting:

RaisusTheFlammie,

Ghostwheel

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes: Mafiaturtle has been prodded.

VC 1.12

Almost50

[L-2]

-

Replace In

, Mr Glidder,

Ghostwheel

Mr Glidder [L-3]

-

Shadow Dancer

, Almost50

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Madonna

LaserVP [L-4]

- chilledtea

Not Voting:

LaserVP, MURDERCAT

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.13

Mr Glidder

[L-1]

- Almost50, chilledtea, MURDERCAT,

Ghostwheel

Almost50 [L-3]

-

Replace In

, Mr Glidder

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Madonna

Madonna [L-4]

-

Shadow Dancer

Not Voting:

LaserVP

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.14

Mr Glidder [L-3]

- Almost50, MURDERCAT

Almost50 [L-3]

-

Replace In

, Mr Glidder

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Madonna

Madonna [L-4]

-

Shadow Dancer

Replace In

[L-4]

- chilledtea

Not Voting:

LaserVP,

Ghostwheel

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.16

Replace In

[L-2]

- chilledtea, LaserVP, MURDERCAT

Mr Glidder [L-3]

- Almost50,

Ghostwheel

Almost50 [L-3]

-

Replace In

, Mr Glidder

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

- Madonna

Madonna [L-4]

-

Shadow Dancer

Not Voting:

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.18

Replace In

[L-1]

- chilledtea, LaserVP, Almost50, MURDERCAT

Mr Glidder [L-4]

-

Ghostwheel

Almost50 [L-4]

- Madonna

Madonna [L-4]

-

Shadow Dancer

LaserVP [L-4]

-

Replace In

Not Voting:

Mr Glidder

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.19

Replace In

[L-1]

- chilledtea, LaserVP, Almost50, MURDERCAT

Mr Glidder [L-3]

-

Ghostwhee

l,

Shadow Dancer

Almost50 [L-4]

- Madonna

Shadow Dancer

[L-4]

-

Replace In

Not Voting:

Mr Glidder

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-08 21:30:00)

Mod Notes:

VC 1.20

Replace In

[LYNCH]

- chilledtea, LaserVP, Almost50, MURDERCAT,

Replace In

Mr Glidder [L-3]

-

Ghostwheel

,

Shadow Dancer

Almost50 [L-4]

- Madonna

Not Voting:

Mr Glidder

Replace In has been taken out! He was a

Vanilla Townie!

Analysis coming up soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so we get a very early L-1 in the game in VC 1.3. The problem with this is that we have no information from the wagon at all as nobody has been flipped on it. 4 unknowns are sat on that wagon, if I take out my strong town reads (MrG and Laser) that still leaves me with Almost and MC and tells me absolutely nothing.

Looking at the votes themselves; Almost's vote was RVS, MCs and MrG's vote seem OK (46 and 47). However, I don't like RTF's vote on Rag (48), he says he has produced no content (a couple of other players could also have been accused of this) and states he made a couple of random votes (as if random voting is scummy) so that makes him more likely to be scum than MT. This looks like scum taking advantage of an early opportunity for L-1.

In the next VC (1.4), MrG has jumped off the Rag wagon but Shadow has jumped on. MrG unvotes for the ever present newbie concern, a potential quick hammer. (54) Shadow takes the opportunity to place Rag back at L-1. Does scum!MrG unvote here? Probably not.

By the next VC (1.5), MC and RTF have left the Rag wagon; RTF has jumped onto my wagon and MC is not voting. RTF is first to unvote Rag, town points. Scum!RTF doesn't need to leave that wagon, especially with the flimsy reasoning he gave in 88. MCs unvote (96) is somewhat less convincing and is simply because Rag is being replaced. I don't see how that changes what role PM he got, but whatever. Could be scum seeing a wagon in decline and doesn't want to look stagnant.

I first noticed a trend here as well; Shadow and Almost are voting together and on the same wagons an awful lot. I find this

highly unlikely

to come from scum, it just looks too obvious. It's also making me begin to wonder if Shadow intentionally avoided interacting with Almost in order to leave him behind as a potential mislynch? Did Almost talk much to Shadow? Will be worth looking into because if it's all one-way, it's almost certainly a set-up.

OK, a couple of VCs further (1.7). The Rag wagon has completely died, RTF and MrG are the two competing wagons. Almost has moved onto MrG and the RTF wagon consists of myself and MrG.

137 is the vote from Almost and it's pretty bad. Little reasoning, but again, Shadow and himself are pushing the same wagon. MrG's vote on RTF looks pretty town, usually scum like to elaborate on their votes a little more than this in case they are ever pulled up on them.

Onto VC 1.8 and MrG has become the leading wagon, thanks to a vote from MC. Looking at his vote in 149, I don't have any problems with the reasoning or the vote itself. However, looking through the reads-list it would appear he had more reasoning to vote for Almost or RTF and he didn't take any of those options - he could make MrG the leading wagon with a vote. Opportunism?

It's also worth noting that there is no counter-wagon to MrG - usually points to the wagonee being town. If he were scum, Shadow would be trying to create a counter-wagon, not push his buddy. Let's see how this develops.

I'm going to stop this post here because I just previewed it and it's huge . Hopefully someone will come in here soon and we can have a discussion.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CT, did you read anything I posted re: MrG and Shadow?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CT, why couldn't MC have been bussing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Or Laser?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I claim VT.

I told y'all MrG was town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait, I need to properly read and respond to everything from yesterday.

But yeah, NL'ing is the way to go.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Glidder dying clears me -

I'm sorry what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I wanna lynch MC.

I don't see scum!Almost being on all the same wagons as his scum buddy. Seems a little too easy to associate them with each other should one of them get flipped.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CT, there is no guarantee that MrG jailed you and I really really don't like you using that as a way of clearing you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right, I don't see why MrG wouldn't jail you. OK, that gets rid of the paranoia I was having.

I want to lynch MC even more.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, why do scum spend the game voting together then? That's my major issue with Almost being scum.

I understand they didn't make it super obvious they were voting together, but the fact remains that they did vote together for a very long time. You don't really see scum teams doing that.

PEdit - I had Almost as top scum based on interactions but the VCA led me away from that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Show me what you're talking about CT.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What is that supposed to show CT? That MC was trying to lynch me instead of his buddy? Yeah...no shit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why not? Do you think I was a viable alternative? I certainly do. If they managed to lynch me, they would have been one lynch away from winning the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Remember that when I replaced in Madonna was widely scum read - I was a very easy (or so scum thought) counter-wagon to push once Shadow started receiving attention.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why does inconsistent emotions point to scum?

I'm not saying his hammer yesterday was great, but, would scum really do that? Not a great way of avoiding attention the next day.

Is Almost the only person with a vote out?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ugh, I don't know.

I'll be super annoyed if Almost is scum and I don't catch him after my reads during my read through.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Then why aren't you voting?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is no point in no lynching now. The only thing that happens is that CT dies and we're left in the same position.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why do you think I would die, bbt? I don't think I've been targeted this game.

Even if you haven't been targeted, we're in the EXACT same position tomorrow.

Then if we no lynch, you die. Either way, you die. One way just takes longer than the other.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why couldn't they take you out, bbt?

Because you're pretty much conf town with MrG jailing you.

I'm not.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, but there is always the outside chance of a BBT lynch.

You never get lynched this game, so you're a bigger priority.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Convince me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I also want to see if Almost wants to talk about his vote always being in close proximity to Shadow's.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That actually sounds pretty decent.

I want to see Almost's response.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wanna lynch MC, CT?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I'm convinced.

VOTE: Almost

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm town, I think we got this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fair play to you guys if Almost is scum, I was pretty sure it was MC after the past few days but I had a hard scum read on Almost after D1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CT's town case on you. If I look past Almost and Shadow just voting together then Almost looks very likely to be scum.

I looked over the VCs and saw that it wasn't as obvious as the VCs made it out to be so maybe they thought it was more subtle than it seemed.

I feel like you're asking me now though because you're scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm hoping Mod gets here quick and puts and end to my paranoia.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, don't quote anything just in case haha.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Imaginee if CT is scum and for some crazy reason MrG changed his target.

I would lose my shit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shit, I was scum.

Forgot about that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry, I like to keep the suspense for the Mod.

I didn't like doing flips when people already knew the results so I had to play along.

Thanks for comments!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks for modding Shaddowez!

I'm good with scum PT being released as well.

If we no lynched I just would have killed you CT.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I had already hit you once.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It was tough because the double bus wasn't planned but as I was reading the game I had a genuine scum read on Shadow and I felt like I would have pushed it as town so I had to as scum as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

When I realised I was placed into a slot that was widely scum read and I was scum I was just like

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I felt like I was in a good position but I legit scum slipped.

No, I wasn't around when that happened.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How is MrG scum with Shadow? In what world does that make sense?

I need to get on a laptop and double check that Shadow pushed MrG as hard as I think he did.

MC do not claim. It's only beneficial to scum

.

Here.

I flat out spoke to you as if you were town when I stated I was scum reading you. I thought it was going to get me lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

MrG did a great job of lying low as JK as well, I consistently forgot he was in the game.

I had no idea who was JK. I thought CT was JK and Almost was BP.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you mean CT?

I thought RI was town as fuck and I couldn't believe they were the D1 lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I know, when CT died I thought Laser had jailed me!

I had no idea what was going on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

When CT didn't die*

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Shadow had the intention of bussing Madonna so he was just carrying it through with me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because a no lynch usually puts town on even numbers and usually results in a free kill for scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Plus, there are plenty of games where scum actually do get lynched on D1. It's not as fruitless as some people try to make it out to be.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If we lynch each day, scum can kill on N1 and N2.

If we no lynch, scum can kill on N1, N2 and N3.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not really because then you're relying on PRs to play optimally and that doesn't always happen either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, PRs can make more informed choices after a D1. Without a D1, you're relying on pure luck.

How could you use NK analysis?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Haha MC, I'm not sure how valid your reasons were for scum reading me mind

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I remember you saying my catch up posts didn't feel genuine but I never knew what that actually meant.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I'm not sure if that comes down to our own perception of what is and isn't important.

When I read the game, I had no idea of the current game-state (otherwise I would not have ended up with a scum read on Almost of all people). I try to likit what I know so that my catch up looks as genuine and real as possible.

Even as town, I would not have analysed what RI and Ghost said becauae they were dead and could not respond to anything.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Likit

Should be limit*