Newbie 1717: Newbies Through the Looking Glass (Game Over)

[Postie]

Hi guys!

I've only read the first couple of pages so far but I'm pretty sure Accountant needs rope.

[Postie]

Because you began the day by immediately pushing a load of contrived-sounding terribleness to advocate for a lynch on obvtown.

[Postie]

Once I've read up completely and formed some town and scum pools I'll probably be L-1ing you.

[Postie]

if I didn't know that RC was a Titus alt I'd be guessing a Not_Mafia alt

RC you should sig this.

[Postie]

Yeah, but you were. And it was bad.

[Postie]

Okay, question: when you voted Grace, was it a serious vote or was it just for pressure?

[Postie]

I've never done a single reaction test this entire game, and I don't know why people thought I did.

Nevermind found my answer.
Yeah you're just scum sorry.

[Postie]

I tunneled on Grace because I wasn't sure of her alignment yet. 13 and 16 may have been enough for you to determine her true colors, but it wasn't enough for me. People respond under pressure - that response shows me their alignment. Afterwards I townread Grace since her respond was townie.

... or not?

Gah.

[Postie]

Link me one or two towngames of yours, Accountant?

[Postie]

Thanks!

Skimmed Accountant's ISO there and they feel kinda different but I can't tell if that's just me being confbiased.
Meh. RC's push feels like a town push and apparently he's good at reading Accountant so I'm willing to vote Accountant just for that.

Anyway, I'm basically done catching up.

1st Tier Lynchpool:

Accountant

/

Pants98

/

Lycanfire

2nd Tier Lynchpool:

RadiantCowbells

Townpool:

Simoyd

/

Grace

/

innocentvillager

/

Meepo

Probably actually going to hold off voting for now because I want to hear more from Pants98 and try and get a better handle on Lycan.

[Postie]

I thought Accountant was L-2?

[Postie]

Hey have I taken LSD

Since when does RC voluntarily release pressure on a hard tunnel of his

Is this supposed to be justification for your scumread?

[Postie]

Yeah but was that supposed to be another reason why you were scumreading him?

[Postie]

Um, that's actually a pretty towny post.

[Postie]

I want to have more on the entire playerlist before I let Accountant get lynched, reegardless of flip.

Yep, that's basically where I'm at too.

[Postie]

It's more of a "this player has a life outside if MafiaScum" tell.

[Postie]

IV/Accountant scumteam. discuss.

No.

[Postie]

I don't let people into my townpool willy-nilly. I can dig through IV's ISO and find what he said to make me townread him if you like, but I'm fairly sure he's town.
It's either Accountant/Pants or Accountant/Lycan.

[Postie]

Because everyone I'm strongly townreading everyone else.

[Postie]

EBWOP

Because I'm strongly townreading everyone else.

[Postie]

Oh yeah and

Accountant's defense of me, while slightly odd I agree, was completely right. I didn't need to do any more defense of myself when Accountant had given basically the same defense I would've given, why put in the extra time?

This doesn't really feel like IV talking about a scumbud.

[Postie]

How

I think this was just a lazy attempt to not get replaced tbh.

[Postie]

Because he said he was setting aside time to put more effort into this game, which is town-motivated. Sure, he could say that as scum too, but I was already townreading him, and if he wanted to convince everyone else of his towniness he could have left it for another day (also giving him an excuse for not being nightkilled).

[Postie]

Since Accountant isn't even at L-2 right now

VOTE: Accountant

Not voting for a lynch outside of this.
Lycan can die tomorrow.

[Postie]

@mod

- My name should be in place of Mizzytastic's on the vote count.

[Postie]

Okay, the scumteam is very likely Lycan/snoe.

Why?

[Postie]

VOTE: Accountant

Postie, what's your Snoe read?

Not sure. His catch-up seems very safe, so I can't make much of it. I'll do a metadive to see if he's usually like that.

[Postie]

I did a brief meta of snoe, and what I got from it was basically nothing, since he didn't replace into either of the games and never gave a PbPA in either.

Yeah, same. ._.

Oh well. As much I'd like to have an idea about who both of the scum are, a 3-man lynchpool is good enough for me.

[Postie]

He doesn't seem to have any completed games where he was replaced.

[Postie]

Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town.

Strongly townreading Simoyd for this.

[Postie]

I don't like at all Simoyd playing up their newbiness.

Just in that quote or anywhere else?

[Postie]

I'm not really seeing it?

[Postie]

Stuff like this. I don't like the approach to the game.

I can write it off as a playstyle dislike thing for now though.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but what would Simoyd have to gain from playing up his newbieness? And it doesn't strike me as the kind of thing a newbie would think to do anyway. I remember being accused of playing up my newbieness as a newbie so I think that that kind of play is just something some newbies slip into sometimes.

[Postie]

Humble as always.

[Postie]

He's used the "i can scumread this player, lynch them" tactic as scum before on someone they usually try to lynch, then when his target flipped town nobody suspected him for it.

Link?

[Postie]

I mean, I've seen RC do that before, but it was accompanied by actual reasoning and... well, I'm not going to tell RC what not to do if he wants to fake something like that again in future in have me fall for it. What he's doing here, though, is kind-of asking people to be suspicious of him after an Accountant townflip. I'm pretty sure he's town.

[Postie]

Since I feel it's near impossible for Snoe/Accountant to be partners,

Why's this? Sorry if you've already explained it; I'm finding your walls a bit hard to follow.

[Postie]

Because Pants wanted Accountant lynched and sure didn't seem to care how or why.

near impossible for Snoe/Accountant to be partners

[Postie]

*shrug* As long as we lynch all of Accountant/Lycan/snoe at some point we should be good.

[Postie]

If we kill Accountant we can just kill snoe the day after though...

[Postie]

Yeah, I'm good with lynching BlankFace after Accountant. Those reads are awful.

[Postie]

Meepo warrants looking into further, so does IV, RC,

and Pants

.

This might be townslip actually. At least if we assume Pants would have posted in the scum PT.

[Postie]

Prviate Topic. And oh yeah nevermind there's no daytalk so Pants might not have posted anything there after all.

[Postie]

Why do you care whether it's a null or not and how easy it is to fake?

[Postie]

But why does it matter to you if it's a good reason or not?

[Postie]

I am thinking this is Postie/Blank.

How about this: we lynch Accountant, then Lycan and snoe/Blank, and if the game hasn't ended by then you can autolynch me.
I don't really see myself being wrong on any of my townreads.

[Postie]

The only one of those that might be scum to me is Blank...

Why are Accountant and Lycan town?

[Postie]

If all three of those people are town there'd be no point autolynching you since mafia would have won already

Oh. I did not think that through.

What makes no sense to me is why you seem to be equally willing to lynch me and Titus(snoe), but vote me instead of L-1ing Titus.

My pick for the scumteam is you + one of Lycan/snoe, so my vote goes on you.

[Postie]

Simoyd, go back to Accountant pls. :[

[Postie]

I would hammer snoe last second to avoid a no-lynch...

Shhh don't tell her that. :X

[Postie]

What are the odds that it's Grace/Accountant and that fight they had where Accountant had all the hammed up reactions was a planned distancing attempt?

Grace's reaction looked really town though. D:

[Postie]

And I guess there's the possibility of Grace being coached. Ugh. Why.

[Postie]

I'm still townleaning on Grace's early posts. Idk. I can't explain it. They don't feel easily fakable.

But then

but Accountant seems to be really worried... Isn't that suspicious?

This feels like shitty distancing.

Ughhhhhhhh.

[Postie]

Postie, what's your final opinion on Grace/Titus?

Idk. I need to re-ISO Grace and hear more from Titus.

[Postie]

Okay, I'm not sure I like the way Grace moved from scumreading Accountant to defending them.
Paranoia now firmly embedded in my brain.
Titus, start talking.

[Postie]

Postie why are you getting so emotional?

Because I don't like being wrong on my townreads?

It just seems to me like you are changing your opinion on Grace way too easily, and just because of RC.

RC knows how to read Titus. If he says Titus is engaging weirdly, Titus is engaging weirdly.

Looks to me like you are trying to sheep him?

Huh?

[Postie]

Sweet; now people can sheep this. How long should we take with figuring Titus out before we lynch?

[Postie]

Don't really know what to do on that front. Do you want my thoughts on anything?

[Postie]

Um. I'm not great with vague instructions. There's nothing in your case I disagree with?

[Postie]

Good thing they're probably not.

[Postie]

How long should we take with figuring Titus out before we lynch?

[Postie]

Don't people in your town pool stay there?

Yep. Because people go in there for doing exceptionally towny things and exceptionally towny things don't usually suddenly become untowny. Accountant possibly having coached Grace screws with that though.

[Postie]

Newbie queues don't have daychat.

Oops.

Ditto what RC said, but I was mainly thinking of her responses as potentially coached so I guess that eliminates that possibility.
Hmmmmmnmnmnmn.
Ugh Titus the way you're interacting feels all weird though.

[Postie]

That's not what I said. If you hadn't replaced in I'd be keeping Grace in my townpool, but you've just said some things that sounded really sketchy, including that last post.

[Postie]

I was about to say Grace was still a townlean but then that hard defence of Accountant doe.

[Postie]

You mean pushing you?

No, your reasons for pushing me. They don't strike me as particularly genuine.

[Postie]

You good with being lynched if Accountant flips scum, Titus?

[Postie]

Titus why does this feel like your 636-game?

[Postie]

Great. Then find a new method to sort me so we can vote scum. K the. Bye.

RC, is this kind of response normal for Titus when you're having difficulty working together or you're not townreading her or whatever?

[Postie]

Hmmn. It just sounds awfully familiar...

[Postie]

[Postie]

We're not ending this day without an Accountant lynch.

[Postie]

Or face my undying wrath!

[Postie]

No I'm big and scary dammit.
You're supposed to cower in fear.

[Postie]

Honestly I think this circleshitting session between Postie Titus RC and Accountant can happen on d2. I'd much rather get Lycan/Blank today.

Blank doesn't give major scumvibes necessarily, but definitely has not been towntelling. His reads aren't as scummy as much as they are bizarre.

I'm willing to lynch him based on the horribad scumminess of Pants/snoe.

Intent to hammer

no

NO

NO.

[Postie]

Someone unvote BlankFace right now please.

[Postie]

Y?

I say hammer away

Okay I'm now happy to put Titus in my scumpool.

[Postie]

Not today I wasn't! Accountant dies first,

then

we can sort out Blank/Lycan/Titus.

[Postie]

IV, have you read RC's case in 535? You don't get to just skip over it and then state intent on another player.

[Postie]

Thanks!

[Postie]

IV, have you read RC's case in 535?

Sorry, I was actually just about to talk about that before you posted and then my computer froze on me so I lost my post.

Yeah, I read RC's case. Some of it I agree with, and the logic behind the case in general makes sense. A lot of it I don't know because most of it is still meta-shitting. Now, you and RC and maybe Titus can all speak to that since you've played with Accountant and stuff, fine. But you and RC can't expect to get others to just sheep you if RC's just assuming all these things about what town!Accountant would do or wouldn't do when there's no easy way to verify that.

That said, I'm leaning scum on Accountant, definitely more so after RC's case. But I like the snoe/Lycan scumteam a lot better, and I can reasonably entertain the possibility of a town!Accountant in this game. With snoe and Lycan I'm struggling to see them as anything but scum.

You don't get to just skip over it and then state intent on another player.

Um, yes I can? What kind of strongarming appeal to authority attitude is that? Off your high horses please. Just because RC finally comes out with his SOLE well-reasoned post this entire game doesn't mean I HAVE to read it and respond to it before making a vote. I'm disappointed by this part of your post.

How about "IV, have you read RC's case? If not, read it. Otherwise, explain why you're not voting Accountant." Not too hard, right?

Sorry if I came across as harsh. It's just bad form to state intent on a player without addressing or even acknowledging the disagreements people have just brought up about your choice of lynch.

And the meta stuff is pretty credible given RC's track record when it comes to reading Accountant. That's not really something you can just ignore or heavily downplay because you haven't played with Accountant before yourself (I haven't either).

[Postie]

Y?

I say hammer away

Okay I'm now happy to put Titus in my scumpool.

Postie, where does this come from? You already knew at this point Titus is willing to lynch Blank right now, especially when she put Blank at L-1. So I'm not understanding why this quote suddenly makes Titus much more of a scumcandidate.

I probably overreacted. It looked like Titus was trying to push the lynch through as quickly as possible and that freaked me out.

[Postie]

Need sleep so RC can take things from here.
Idk how I'd handle Titus so JK/Doc on RC tonight please.
If I die, no getting paranoid of Simoyd, okay? That slot's town.

Thanks.

[Postie]

Nope, Lycan/Blank scumteam.

VOTE: BlankFace

^ This.

VOTE: BlankFace

[Postie]

VOTE: Postie

I'm really sorry Titus.
Tracker/Cop claims if they have a guilty, cop claims if they have an inno on Postie.

[Postie]

RC, I want you to take a moment to think about how much sense that nightkill would have actually made from my perspective.

[Postie]

What?

[Postie]

Yes, but I'm literally down to a lynchpool of two people now, who from my PoV have to both be scum. If either flips town, I have nothing to work with. Having Titus alive would have given me an out.

[Postie]

If I were scum and Titus was alive, I could have pushed a mislynch through on one of Lycan/Blank, and then when they flipped town said "Oh it must be Titus/OtherPlayer then." and get a second person mislynched for the win. I have absolutely no leverage with Titus dead.

P-Edit: I can go Lycan if you want?

[Postie]

I didn't think she was. >.>

[Postie]

I don't think you have nothing to work with. You could choose anyone really... that also assumes lycan and snoe aren't ur buddies you were bussing. None of this makes sense to me.

No, I couldn't have chosen anyone. I don't go back on my townpool except in exceptional circumstances like what happened with Titus, and even that was dependant on Accountant being scum (although if I were scum I'd have glossed over that obviously).

who did scum postie think was PR then?

How exactly am I supposed to answer this when I'm not scum?

[Postie]

No, Simoyd is town. He said something pretty town yesterday but I don't want to bring it up right now; that way he has a chance to make more posts like it without "omg you pointed out what he did so he probably just faked more posts like it".
For now, please just trust me on this one?

[Postie]

Why Lycan?

1st Tier Lynchpool:

Accountant

/

Pants98

/

Lycanfire

2nd Tier Lynchpool:

RadiantCowbells

Townpool:

Simoyd

/

Grace

/

innocentvillager

/

Meepo

[Postie]

VOTE: Lycanfire

Alright.

[Postie]

You're scaring me Postie. Ugh.

I'm not doing anything. D:

[Postie]

You're just sheeping my votes and not scumhunting independently.

Because I think it's Lycan/Blank so I don't care which one gets voted up.
Yesterday my lynchpool was Accountant/Lycan/Blank and I was scumreading Accountant for a lot of the same reasons as you gave in your case so that's why I went there.
If you want to know about any of my townreads I'm happy to explain them.

[Postie]

Postie why do you put so much trust into RC?

You mean like why am I townreading him?

[Postie]

I mean, I've seen RC do that before, but it was accompanied by actual reasoning and... well, I'm not going to tell RC what not to do if he wants to fake something like that again in future in have me fall for it. What he's doing here, though, is kind-of asking people to be suspicious of him after an Accountant townflip. I'm pretty sure he's town.

[Postie]

I mean you wrote up that case on Accountant but before I replaced in you seemed to genuinely be okay with letting a lynch go through there without one.

[Postie]

Also Postie yesterday I asked you who would you kill if you were scum. Why didn't you answer?

Sorry, I was phoneposting so I skipped the non-essential stuff.

This is even more suspicious coming from you when you've made such an attempt to hide other people's tells, saying you're sure I'm town but don't want to say why, and you're sure RC is town but not saying what he does when he's scum. I think most people would value keeping their own tells secret more than keeping other people's tells secret. If you value being able to read other people's tells so much, then I would think you'd value keeping your own tells secret even more.

I didn't say anything about specific tells; I just said why I couldn't see myself making that nightkill.

What about Simoyd/Postie?

No.

I feel like RC is sheeping me. Postie, what do you think?

No.

Yup. It's Simoyd/Postie. I can virtually guarantee it.

Don't anyone dare hammer Blank.

RC what happened.

[Postie]

I think the way Simoyd's L-1ing people is actually pretty town. Just the way he's being all jumpy about it feels like overly-eager newbtown.

[Postie]

SIMOYD ISN'T BEING SCUMMY STOP

It's BlankFace/Lycan.

[Postie]

weird =/= scummy ffs

[Postie]

How???

[Postie]

You know that it's scummy or you would if you were town.

Clearly not. Walk me through it.

[Postie]

I am abosufuckinglutely not saying to "give him the benefif of the doubt", Hark. That's not why he shouldn't be lynched. He shouldn't be lynched because he's been incredibly towny in ways I don't see a newbie being able to fake.

[Postie]

I'd tell you that I'd be okay with being lynched if everyone promised to lynch BlankFace and then Lycan immediately after me but let's face it people aren't going to do that.

[Postie]

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do in this situation. I guess I'll case town!Simoyd.

[Postie]

No, it's not fucking possible so when she flips scum if I get NKed if the tracker/cop didn't check postie and we lose I'm going to be seriously irate.

Now consider how irate I'm going to be if I get lynched, you get nightkilled, and then everyone ignores my reads and we get a shitty mislynch on Simoyd or some crap.

[Postie]

OKAY WE ARE LYNCHING POSTIE INSTEAD OF SIMOYD BUT NOW I WILL BE CONCERNED THAT YOU ARE SCUM WITH SIMOYD IF THIS IS A TOWNFLIP FTR.

rc pls it's Lycan/Blank ;_;
stopp ittt

[Postie]

stop ateing me please, thanks.

I can't help it! I'm 95% sure the scumteam is Lycan/Blank and you're getting paranoid about everyone I think is town and it's not just like one read you're literally giving scum so many mislynch possibilities and like if I get lynched and lose to Lycan/Blank I'm going to be really upset.

[Postie]

Like last game I told you Namaste was obvtown but you got paranoid about him and tunneled him the next day and it allowed scum to push a mislynch through on you instead of town actually lynching scum and I don't want a similar thing to happen here. Obviously it might not end the same way like with you getting lynched but it's still going to give scum the opportunity to end the game by mislynching someone super town.

[Postie]

Fine. I'll case Simoyd. Bear with me.

[Postie]

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc.

[Postie]

I still read a scum lean on meepo. maybe I'm stoopid

And here I thought 209 was pretty good...

Can't explain these but they're town. And it's weird beause I think they looks surface-scummy because of how they feel slightly overdone somehow but I just can't imagine scum!Simoyd typing out those words at all.

Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town.

This is still ridiculously town and IMO I shouldn't even have to go any further into Simoyd's ISO past this because the combination of paranoia and overconfidence in his own towniness here just isn't something I can see a newbie like him faking, or pretty much any newbie for that matter.

Yes I lack experience but if you're letting that influence you that's your problem, not mine... Feel free to ask me any questions about any post that seems newby and I'll gladly explain my rational thought process.

More miscellaneous town feels.

You say this like you know I'm town.

You say this like Harkonnen97 isn't in your town pool.

I think you're getting a free pass cause titus read you as town.

Protesty vibes feel town.

This stuff you said is only to manipulate. Now everyone has to see if they read a town or scum motivation from that manipulation.

Pretty early in the game 52 you're talking about manipulating the pace of the game. Not a big fan of this.

The whole thing just sounds manipulative

~manipulatioooon~
This feels like pretty freaking distinctive newbtown paranoia.

[Postie]

I can see the problem with the way Simoyd is changing his reads after that ISO, but I'm maintaining he's town for the above reasons.

[Postie]

IIRC you went from hardtownreading me to suddenly wanting me lynched to... idk what you're doing now.

[Postie]

Simoyd and Postie, please answer me this: If you were scum, who would you kill tonight and why?

RC, obviously.

[Postie]

Whoever you guys decide to vote today, as long as 0% of your reasoning is because you're sleeping RC, that's better than nothing.

But seriously vote Blank with me please. He's just been coasting. He's not even trying at this point-at least his partner is sort of trying to get themselves out of this situation by bussing.

VOTE: BlankFace

Works for me.

[Postie]

Whoever you guys decide to vote today, as long as 0% of your reasoning is because you're sleeping RC, that's better than nothing.

But seriously vote Blank with me please. He's just been coasting. He's not even trying at this point-at least his partner is sort of trying to get themselves out of this situation by bussing.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lycanfire

Somewhere, I have fucked up massively.

[Postie]

I did not mean to quote that.

[Postie]

I don't know where I've gone wrong with my reads. Nothing makes sense.

[Postie]

THAT NIGHT KILL MAKES NO SENSE FOR BLANKFACE/LYCAN SCUM.

Why?

[Postie]

Note her still trying to divert the lynch away from Postie/Simoyd.

I'M NOT GOING TO LYNCH MYSELF OR MY TOWNREADS BECAUSE OF YOUR CLAIM BLOODY HELL.

[Postie]

I like IV this game.

P-Edit - Stop it we're lynching Lycan.

[Postie]

I prefer that we lynch scum. i.e. Lycan.

[Postie]

Don't hate me RC but until I remembered that counterclaims were a thing I thought you were town fakeclaiming.

[Postie]

SIMOYD WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

[Postie]

This fucking game.
I don't even understand what I'm not understanding.

[Postie]

Oh god Simoyd's scum trying to take me down with him isn't he?

[Postie]

Or not? Idk. I don't know how to read what he's doing.
I have no idea what's going on.

[Postie]

Hey RC, who's scum if Simoyd flips town?

[Postie]

Can someone make sense of this clusterfuck

[Postie]

Hold me IV.

[Postie]

Simoyd, if you're town here do you realise that your play is anti-town?
I don't understand what you're doing at all.

[Postie]

Not to mention bothering with trying to make sure there are no counterclaims. What's the point when you're scum about to be hammered and want town to have as little information as possible?

Yeah, I still really think Simoyd's town.

[Postie]

Simoyd please unvote yourself.

[Postie]

Hold me IV.

[Postie]

I can't

[Postie]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
I'm going to make tea.

[Postie]

oh my god. I'm laughing so hard. GUISE THINK ABOUT THIS IT"S OBVIOUS. (trying not to post anything after I'm dead)

You can still post in twilight. Shoot.

[Postie]

I thought he was saying he thinks he knows who the scumteam is.

[Postie]

Okay if RC is actually a cop then Hark can be the second scum.

[Postie]

What the fuck Hark

Okay Hark is scum with Lycan or Postie this game actually makes more sense now

Spoiler: It's Lycan.

GG.

[Postie]

I very sincerely doubt a townflip here but if it does well *shrug*

If he does you stop ignoring my hardtownreads. >:[
I mean I know I messed up on one of them but I was like 98% sure on Simoyd.

[Postie]

Godammit IV!

[Postie]

Hey I was actually semi-correct about RC fakeclaiming though. Huh.