Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

innocentvillager · Post Post #161 (isolation #0) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:50 am

Hi guys I will post hopefully tonight or tomorrow as I am pretty busy

But I had to join this game when I saw Rach and Zorby!!!! Newbie 1222 reunion!!!!!

innocentvillager · Post Post #180 (isolation #1) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Hi guys, sorry lot of other games going on atm but my V/LA is over so tomorrow I should be able to get some analysis in, if not tomorrow then Wed for sure.

Also Nacho you no say hi to me?

innocentvillager · Post Post #182 (isolation #2) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:26 pm

Oh shoot, I did not notice that. I will make this game my top priority for tomorrow then, thanks for telling me Zorbs!

innocentvillager · Post Post #183 (isolation #3) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:27 pm

WAIT WTF ONLY 8 PAGES and 2 days to deadline????

innocentvillager · Post Post #204 (isolation #4) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:37 am

hey will get to this tonight sorry.

innocentvillager · Post Post #208 (isolation #5) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:28 pm

Hi guys, am here, and starting to read up now. Expect in a post in the next 30min-2hours.

innocentvillager · Post Post #210 (isolation #6) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:12 pm

If you guys want an update of what I am doing, I stepped away from this game for a bit, am eating dinner, and am working on a massive PbPA wall. I'm going to see how this works out, even if I don't like PbPA myself too much. I have to really try this game for Zorbs <3

innocentvillager · Post Post #223 (isolation #7) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:32 pm

Finally, I'm "done". I did a super-detailed analysis of pages 1-3, realized it was going to take way too long, started just reading carefully but stopped summarizing stuff (Seeing how short this game was, I got excited and I wanted to do a super detailed note process where I could just read my notes again if I wanted to check my reads so I summarized everything, but clearly it wasn't feasible), and then the last two pages I honestly just skimmed.

Key: Anything in normal text is just objective summary for pages 1-3. My thoughts are all in bolded green. At some point i think I stopped using bolded green.

Spoiler: My notes on the game

Okay, final readslist:

Scum: RachMarie, ecane
Lean Scum: Zorblag
Null: Fiddler
Null lean Town: Gratuitous, Fox
Town: Jaack, Nacho

VOTE: RachMarie

Rach's pre-Zorblag game was pretty scummy and unhelpful despite her complaining about the game state herself. I mention some detailed criticism of this in my notes. Then Zorblag comes in and suddenly her activity is through the roof, a lot of it being meh NAI discussion with Zorblag.

Let me know if you want more explanations on stuff, I will try to respond tomorrow since this game is almost going to deadline.

innocentvillager · Post Post #224 (isolation #8) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:34 pm

Oh anything I underlined in the notes referring to the first few pages refers to reads, so you can see my read progressions lol.

I've never done anything like this before in my 50+ games, and honestly I don't intend on doing anything like this again in the near future, that was just damn exhausting. I think I just got a little too excited when I saw Zorbs and Rach in the same game with me <3 Sorry for the massive wall.

innocentvillager · Post Post #226 (isolation #9) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:51 pm

In post 225, Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, thanks for that post. I do have a couple questions and am happy to talk about my page 7 posts that seem to be bothering you in a bit, though I'd like you to elaborate first.

What do you think of Gratuitous's posts the past couple pages. There's a change in tone and you don't seem to have mentioned that struck me as noteworthy. I'd also love to see if you can dig into what you don't like about ecane's resent posts as you seem to have a largely unique perspective there (in that no one else other than perhaps Gratuitous has mentioned it.)

For my page 7 posts, I wonder if you can tell me what you think my motivation as scum might have been to do what I did? I can understand not seeing what I was up to, but I'm wondering why you think it was scum play in particular.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Zorblag are you speedman??? How much of that did you read so fast, and type up your post in <11 minutes after I posted???

innocentvillager · Post Post #227 (isolation #10) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:51 pm

I will respond to your stuff after I sleep lol

innocentvillager · Post Post #248 (isolation #11) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:56 am

In post 247, foedufafa wrote:What's up, innocent? Wanted to give this another try.

I'm just catching up on the game right now. Looks like my predecessors were really inactive so I'll turn that around soon.

Hey what's up man? Glad to see you came back! That game is over now lol, that was kind of a crazy shitfest of a game lolol, this one has been proceeding for more peacefully

Also that NK fuck yeah doc

innocentvillager · Post Post #249 (isolation #12) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:58 am

I guess jk could've saved it too (or bp but that's a less desirable outcome I guess)

I think jail keeper or doctor should soft/crumb who they saved/jailed

innocentvillager · Post Post #252 (isolation #13) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:00 am

Zorb I'm here and I gut scumread you and Rach. I've gotten mixed signals from you, but almost entirely scum tells from Rach and mostly scum tells from Caston.

Also fiddler/foe is town. I would be shocked if one of you and Rach was not scum.

VOTE: Rach

innocentvillager · Post Post #253 (isolation #14) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:01 am

In post 251, RachMarie wrote:no role fishing

How am I role fishing? I'm not telling them to claim or anything, I'm telling them to crumb.

innocentvillager · Post Post #255 (isolation #15) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:29 am

In post 254, RachMarie wrote:so instead of trying to get them to crumb how about explaining your case on me Inno?

Besides the fact Im pretty much lynch bait.

I stated my case on you in my notes. You're not just lynch bait, you looked like you insincerely asking questions at the beginning.

And I can do both at the same time, ya know

innocentvillager · Post Post #257 (isolation #16) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:35 am

Right I understand but that don't excuse you from asking a shitty question, not caring about any of the responses that were even shittier and then just asking another question by moving on, among other stuff. It means you're asking questions without regard to actually getting meaningful responses from them. This has nothing to do with your activity.

innocentvillager · Post Post #263 (isolation #17) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:07 pm

In post 262, Zorblag wrote:@Jaack, before I get into anything else about your post I want to hear why you had a PR read on Gratuitous.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I reallyyy wanted to know the same thing when I even just skimmed through Jaack's post, so Zorblag bringing this up is mildly mildly townie.

@Zorblag, can you requote which questions you want me to answer again?

innocentvillager · Post Post #264 (isolation #18) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:52 pm

In post 259, Zorblag wrote:I also agree with RachMarie that we shouldn't be concerned with asking any power roles to out anything at this time; let them use their own judgment about when and how to pass on any information they might have.

Why are both you are Rach misrepping me? Rach is telling me to stop rolefishing, and here you're telling me to stop asking power roles to out anything.

I'm not asking for PRs to out anything. I'm asking for them to crumb their results in the text near the beginning of the day so we can go look back on this later. I think this is the optimal play for PRs—it's the most they can do without actually posting in the thread. If PRs don't want to follow my lead, fine, I won't strongarm them to do anything. It's just my suggestion.

It's like you and Rach don't want people to figure out who's guilty/innocent based on that no-kill.

Like I'm trying not to be confbiased on you two, since I have a weird feeling I haven't pegged the scumteam. But I'm townreading mostly everyone else here, which just leaves the two of you.

innocentvillager · Post Post #265 (isolation #19) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:53 pm

In post 261, Jaack wrote:Will get to IV/Rach later today

I'd be a hypocrite to expect this from other people when I don't always follow up myself but... out of curiosity is this coming at some point?

innocentvillager · Post Post #267 (isolation #20) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:21 pm

In post 266, Zorblag wrote:If scum know that PRs are likely to be breadcrumbing anything they're more likely to pick up on it. We shouldn't be calling for that. You should let PRs use their own judgement about when to reveal information and we shouldn't be doing any speculation in thread as that just helps the scum potentially eliminate non-PRs. I want to explicitly claim that I'd make these statements regardless of role, that's just from a theory perspective. There might come a time in the game when a popcorn claim makes sense, but we're not there yet.

That makes more sense, but you should've said that first instead of just telling me not to out the PRs. You were implicitly assuming and simplifying my argument to suggest that I wanted the PRs to out, which I didn't. Your argument that scum would likely pick up on the crumb since they are looking is a valid one (although if I was crumbing, there's no WAY scum would catch on), but I think if people are feeling up to it and creative enough to make something very obscure but still clearly a crumb, I say do it.

Zorblag, I have to say your weird AtE and self WIFOM scum-speculations in your latest post read oddly desperate to me. Gives me the heebie-jeebies.

innocentvillager · Post Post #269 (isolation #21) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:47 pm

We can have more discussion on the PR stuff but I think for now let's just agree that PRs should consider subtly crumbing as I mentioned, but if they decide that is suboptimal, then they obviously don't have to. So they still are using their own judgment.

I'll have a think on it tomorrow, but I have some thoughts that I'll give right now. I know that the classic theory says that scum have natural motivation to sit back when town is being stubbornly inactive, but scum has a larger priority IMO: to look town.

Caston was clearly being fos'd. You needed to make up for it by being extra, extra townie. So you could've put aside all of your natural scum motivations, flooded the thread with "discussion" (too much content at once can sometimes even induce apathy, which is scum motivated), played extra protown, done all of these protown things so that you could point it out today when people started tunneling you.

So to be honest, I was townreading you for doing classically proactive things like asking questions (you've done that as scum), asking for prods (which you have done in your scumgames too), posting a lot (which I think you have done in your scumgames, not totally sure), and trying to push a lynch towards the end when people were deadline-stalling. That's protown behavior. But a lot of times scum do protown stuff to try and reverse the town's attitude towards them, just they can get townread for it.

It's very possible that you were hoping that you would get me and Jaack off your case by doing all of this. But when you realized we were still scumreading you, you panicked, and came out with this post.

But the moment you pointed it out yourself, it just looks deliberate. All of the protown things that you said and did, no longer look town-motivated. It looks like a scum who was willing to act protown for a bit to save themself from their widely fos'd situation, and when the townreads weren't picked up on,

you pointed them out yourself

.

I also don't like that your bubble burst against Jaack. Jaack was just one person tunneling you, why were you so worried about one guy, who you're not even sure is town? It seemed like a premature overreaction to try and get people to last-ditch townread you.

In fact,

VOTE: Zorblag

This is L-2

I think I'm more confident on this than Rach scum now.

innocentvillager · Post Post #270 (isolation #22) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:48 pm

Sorry there is some terrible grammar in there since I'm groggy and it's late, feel free to ask me to clarify anything.

innocentvillager · Post Post #271 (isolation #23) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:49 pm

The point is, you are clearly good with scum as you said yourself, and you're an experienced player. So I wouldn't put it past you to do something like this, especially giving the situation at hand.

innocentvillager · Post Post #272 (isolation #24) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:49 pm

*given the shitty fos'd situation that you replaced into.

Why is my English so terrible at night lol

innocentvillager · Post Post #278 (isolation #25) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:02 pm

@innocentvillager, first off, that's L-3

Thanks, I always just assume D2 is 4 lynch to votes and I forget lol

I'll respond your points tomorrow but I want to point out:

In post 276, Zorblag wrote:I think that Jaack is town and I want him to figure out who scum actually are.

Your entire day has just been self defense and putting an inordinate amount of time engaging your townreads. Why don't you try engaging some scumreads of yours? In fact, who is scum? I don't see you making any effort to find scum yourself, you're just asking empty questions at other people about who is scum.

innocentvillager · Post Post #279 (isolation #26) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:03 pm

In post 277, RachMarie wrote:Inno this is the same as he was in 1222 dude hes not scum

Have you meta'd Zorby? He has some pretty legit and detailed scumgames in there that feel pretty similar to his play in both here and 1222. I suggest you do a little more comprehensive meta before you townread him off of similar playstyle to one game we had together with him.

innocentvillager · Post Post #280 (isolation #27) » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:04 pm

Okay seriously sleep time lol night guys <3

innocentvillager · Post Post #312 (isolation #28) » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:31 pm

So it looks like a lot of people want me to answer a lot of different questions so I'm just going to answer stuff that jumps out at me for now and please re-ask me stuff if I've missed you.

In post 306, Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm really interested in IV's townread there, the slot hasn't done jack shit.

I would explain it but I reallyyyyy don't want to unless foe is actually in danger of getting lynched. Just trust me on this for now. I'm okay with your vote there to make foe produce content, however.

In post 281, Zorblag wrote:you're still using argument that I could be doing this as scum because I'm sneaky, so I'm scummy despite the fact that I'd do this as town. It's not a good case.

I never claimed to have an amazing case on you, I'm not THAT unaware of how speculative it is. I am mostly responding to your rant of "OMG I've done so much town stuff that I didn't need to do as scum how can I possibly be scum?" which is ridiculous when you point it out yourself. It's not necessarily a scumtell in a vacuum, but it certainly fits in the narrative that you are scum, unlike what you are trying to suggest.

The thing is, you keep suggesting as scum, you would do the opposite of what you're doing here. What I'm saying is, you wouldn't. As scum or town, there is one way for you to win when you are widely fos'd as a replacement: be protown (or pretend to be protown). And you know exactly how to fake that as scum!

What I found rather scummy is the fact that you pointed it out yourself. When people are THAT aware of every single protown thing they're doing and listing them all off in self-defense, it's somewhat of a scumtell.

In post 281, Zorblag wrote:Further, have you been reading my play leading up to today? Are you trying to say that I've not been transparent this game with scum reads, because I set the trend in this game for sharing who people thought was scum. I've spent some time trying to get through to Jaack and you today, but seriously, I was the only one to start looking at what we had from day one in twilight at the end of the day yesterday.

I was specifically referring to your D2 posts, I never said anything about D1. You hadn't been engaging any of your D2 at-the-time scumreads before and you were just asking empty questions. You never gave your own thoughts the entire D2 up to that point or looked like you had ANY interest in finding scum, so I wanted some of your thoughts on others' play, and you finally gave them in this post. I have to say, I'm not surprised at the OMGUS fos on me, when it looked like you were townreading me earlier.

Zorby wrote:When exactly did you do your meta dive on me and what games did you see where I was scum playing just like this?

I haven't had time to do a full meta dive, but I've skimmed some of your ISOs. I honestly don't really remember example when, but it was sometime during Night and earlier D2.

Zorby wrote:What were you worried about from ecane's play towards the end of your reads?

Nothing, I was just fucking with scum. I didn't want ecane nightkilled tonight, and the more I read the thread the more I saw ecane becoming a universal townread, so I tried a weird ecane is scum gambit to save her. It may or may not have worked, lol. I knew it wasn't going to keep working to the next day unfortunately, since you guys would hound me on this read.

Zorby wrote:What would the scum motivation for the question that I was asking Foxbird on page 7 be? You found it scummy, but I don't know see how you think that would help me as scum.

Something being scummy doesn't necessarily mean there is necessarily evil-intent scum-motivation behind it. It could also mean that there is a lack of town-motivation behind it, or genuine desire to scumhunt. It might not be a fair question to ask you this, but do you think you can tell me which one and why?

This is what I said:

IV wrote:Okay, I don't like Zorblag's weird question to Foxbird in 153 about comparing her play to Rach's play. He even says later in 162 that it wasn't really a fair question and that it didn't really matter what Fox answered. So Zorblag, what did you even get out of that question?? Why ask it in the first place? If you were reaction testing, you didn't mention what the result was. The other thing that bothers me is that you switched your vote from Fox to RachMarie in that very post. If you had something in mind of why Rach was scummier than Foxbird all along, why a) ask the question and b) wait for Fox to answer to switch your vote? I find this part very scummy for Zorblag.

I think it's pretty self explanatory what I found scummy, and even explained it right after. I thought that town!You might ask that question to see how Foxbird would react and think, and maybe if she chose something specific it might be AI in your mind. But you later said it didn't matter what Foxbird answered, which is strange. If the answer to a question doesn't really matter, then IMO the question itself was meaningless. You said in response to me at some point (I can't remember where) that you further townread Foxbird just for responding to it. That feels silly, since scum!Foxbird would obviously respond to a question like that too.

And of course, you randomly switched from Foxbird to RachMarie JUST in response to that post. So either you're scum here insincerely scumhunting by asking a pointless, objectiveless question, or you're town who didn't explain their thought process at all, neither of which is great.

Let me know if I'm misrepping you here and where, but I think this is what you said.

Zorby wrote:Who other than RachMarie and myself do you think is most likely to be scum?[/list]

I don't really have any other candidates. I said that one of the biggest reasons I scumread you two is being I townread mostly everyone else. Ecane is town. Foe is town. Nacho is probably town. Jaack is probably town. Foxbird is likely town.

innocentvillager · Post Post #313 (isolation #29) » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:41 pm

In post 300, Nachomamma8 wrote: You say that Zorblag has pushed, provided excellent content, been proactive in producing and analyzing, but all of that goes to waste because he points out that he's done it? Zorblag, as town or scum, is aware that he's been putting work into the thread. All of this talk about Caston being suspected and thus Zorblag has to do a bunch of townie shit is utterly ridiculous; what was Caston actually suspected for? Making some iffy posts? There was not significant suspicion on Caston, there is not some amazing case on Caston that Zorblag is trying to cover up.

Like I said to Zorblag, I never claimed to have an amazing case on him. I'm scumreading him mostly via convenience, PoE, Caston's scumminess, and some little tells here and there that corroborate my suspicions.

You actually make a good point here, but I still disagree. I'm saying Zorblag has done a lot of stuff that is protown. I'm saying that he would do this as either alignment given his slot's shitty condition, so that's a nulltell. Then he himself justifies it, and points out every towntell and town-motivated thing he's done. You don't find that scummy? I'm not going to townread someone who's THAT aware of their "towntells"!

Caston made shitty and insincere posts like Rach. I had a lot of reasons to suspect Caston that I detailed in the early part of my large wall that dwindled out, you can read all about it and refute it if you want to defend Zorb.

I'm pretty sure there was significant suspicion on Caston. Not one person townread that slot until Zorblag came in. Not one. I'll hand it to him, as either alignment, he did a great job turning around suspicion and I'm a bit paranoid he's going to get away with the win for that if he's scum.

In post 300, Nachomamma8 wrote:Secondly, one person voted him. If you feel you've been townie, then it's understandable that you don't understand why someone voted you, no?

Yah, but he overreacted. It was premature. You didn't actually refute my point with this comment here. Jaack's case on him looked pretty tenuous and weak, and it only just began on D2. There was no need to rant about his self proclaimed towniness when only one vote was on him—it looks like a scum-motivated AtE overreaction to a little pressure to get people off of him.

See, if I'm town, this shit builds up. Someone's tunneling me. I refute those points, and they continue tunneling me. I go, hey, what the fuck? You're not listening to me! Eventually my bubble will probably burst if they continue to tunnel and misrep me. I don't see Zorblag's post as a town reaction here.

innocentvillager · Post Post #314 (isolation #30) » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:54 pm

@Rach Okay, you've just been telling me constantly that Zorb is the same as he was in 1222 and I've just been telling you that he's just as capable of what he's doing here as scum. And you've been oddly ignoring me. I understand you're busy, but you're never going to convince me to get off Zorblag just by citing 1222.

Meta means NOTHING if you have not skimmed a scumgame of Zorblag's or two.

I suggest you pick two from his wiki to look at, and try to convince us (or at least yourself) that he is not capable of playing in that protown way as scum.

Zorb's games

@Zorb One of the ones that I skimmed was the one where you were scum with Bitmap or something but I can't find it.

innocentvillager · Post Post #326 (isolation #31) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:45 am

Apologies, but I will be V/LA until Monday afternoon. I've been ignoring RL duties/exam week but I'll try to still post maybe once or twice at least.

innocentvillager · Post Post #367 (isolation #32) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:19 pm

In post 352, ecane wrote:
In post 312, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 306, Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm really interested in IV's townread there, the slot hasn't done jack shit.
I would explain it but I reallyyyyy don't want to unless foe is actually in danger of getting lynched. Just trust me on this for now. I'm okay with your vote there to make foe produce content, however.
So, this is pretty much just utter bull. I didn't mention it before because I wanted us to get as much info as possible. I know I didn't contribute much the past few days, but we still got a little bit more info if I had otherwise said that straight away. Was hoping to get more from Inno but we're obviously not getting that anytime soon, and I wasn't expecting we'd come to L-1 on someone so fast.

Even if he was what he's implying to be here, which he's definitely not, it seems really weird why he would even say that about someone on D2 who had 3 posts I think at that time and none of them even game-related.

@Inno, you seem to be awfully sure of that read. As far as I know only cop and scum can know that for sure. Unfortunately for you, there's no cop. Now your ''no role fishing'' also makes sense. It'd be obviously very easy for you to notice.

In post 267, innocentvillager wrote: (although if I was crumbing, there's no WAY scum would catch on), but I think if people are feeling up to it and creative enough to make something very obscure but still clearly a crumb, I say do it.
Also, how would that be crumbing?

VOTE: innocentvillager

I know you guys can't 100% trust me as well, but you've been doing a great job at town reading me so far so I really hope you keep it up!

If he isn't scum then I honestly have no idea what he was thinking with that post. A VT claiming PR to throw off scum into killing them is just generally considered not so good, right? They would force the real PR to claim...and we're only on D2. Given his experience, I don't think that's the case anyways.

Terrible post. Stop openly talking and speculating about PRs wtf, no one said anything about PRs until now.

If I say I'm townreading foe at that time, then I have a good reason to. You are seriously misguided if you think this is a scumtell.

innocentvillager · Post Post #368 (isolation #33) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:25 pm

In post 365, RachMarie wrote:I am feeling better about foe after reading the more recent posts. So moving along

I think this needs to be pursued I told him I was going to view him with more scrutiny from now on.

VOTE: Inno

This looks so fake.

Gut feelings but logically here's how I see it. Rach just lost a game as town against me-scum, now she's "paranoid" of me being scum in any game. She makes no specific comparisons between this game and 1722, only citing her "paranoia" as a reason. Maybe it's a subconscious spite vote as scum to get "revenge" against me from losing last game.

This is an excuse for a paranoia vote, or just a really bad town paranoia vote, but I don't think Rach is bad enough as town to genuinely vote me when she was previously townreading me for the sole reason that I might be scum. There is no scumread here, no logic, no similarities between here and 1722, nothing. Even Zorby admitted I'm playing differently here (although that shouldn't be a towntell really, two pretty different situations, in 1722 I was a lot more desperate to not get lynched).

VOTE: RachMarie

I'm comfortable with a Rach lynch today.

innocentvillager · Post Post #369 (isolation #34) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:25 pm

L-1

I don't want a claim yet.

innocentvillager · Post Post #370 (isolation #35) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:29 pm

No killing on N-1 is asinine in basically every circumstance. I would never consider a nokill Night 1, unless my scumbuddy got lynched and I knew there was a JK or tracker or something.

I would definitely consider no kills on subsequently nights, since there is more information and MYLO tends to play a good factor.

Also, why are we assuming no kill? Almost certainly it was JK/Doc/BP/whatever that intervened. And NO I'm not antitown speculating about power roles here because that's not giving scum information they didn't already know from whatever night kill they may have chosen.

Just sayin.

innocentvillager · Post Post #372 (isolation #36) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:49 pm

In post 321, Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, I've taken a look at my scum games and I don't think that I've ever been partnered with a name anything like bitmap. And here's the problem with that. You're saying that you skimmed over my scum games and think that I played them just like I'm playing this one. That might be true occasionally, but it's not the way I typically play as scum as it's not usually good scum play. Good scum play isn't playing exactly how you would as town (the way I play as town draws the sort of attention that I've got now and I often have to talk myself out of it.) Good scum play blends in and simply makes sure that town's attention isn't focused correctly on the scum team. I'm having trouble believing that you actually did the looking you say you did and find it more likely that you're trying to find something that will make people suspect me.

I could've sworn you were partners with Bitmap, or at least someone named Bitmap replaced you and won the game for scum while you were scum. I don't know why I can't find it anymore! Regardless, you scumreading me for this is baseless and silly.

I'm not saying necessarily that all your scumgames look the same or whatever, you're strawmaning my argument. My point is, I'm not going to townread you for doing stuff like looking for meta, writing up long walls, pushing activity, pushing prods on people, because you've done all of that in your scumgames. I'm also trying to convince Rach if she's town to stop townreading you for these things and your play being similar to 1222, since IMO your play looks pretty similar regardless of your alignment.

I'm going to stop pushing you today because I don't really remember after a few days exactly why I was hard scumreading you (I mean, I know the reasons for which I was scumreading you, but I may have confbias driven myself to believe they were a lot more incriminating than I thought) but you are no higher than null leaning scum for me.

I will say that I find your reasoning on ecane plausible though. It's not how I would have gone about it (I was largely not bringing her up much until asked because there was no need to draw attention to her,) but I did have similar thoughts.

Regarding whether I think you're misrepresenting what I've had to say about the Foxbird question, I do, but I don't know how much is intentional and how much is not reading carefully. You're saying that I switched my vote to RachMarie just because of that post which is an odd assumption. Here's what I said to Nachomamma8 about it a bit after making the switch:
In post 173, Zorblag wrote:After the talking with Foxbird some I've come around on her; I am more inclined to believe that the reference you're talking about for the delta9 vote is the more likely (which surprises me some as the "I quit" struck me as almost certainly a game statement when I read it and before I knew if he'd posted anywhere.) I also think that I've got more insight into how she's reasoning than I did and, although it's not how I would reason, knowing that the reasoning is there is important.
It also looks like you're still saying that I was asking the question for no reason, but here's what I had to say about that (to you no less):
In post 228, Zorblag wrote:I'd concluded by that point that Foxbird was keying in on different aspects of the game than I was and valuing different things in her analysis of the game state. There wasn't any danger of her being lynched in the near future, and I wanted to see a bit more evidence of the sort of details she would hone in on before that before shifting my vote to another candidate. There wasn't a right or wrong answer she could give offhand, but assuming she was willing to answer it gave me more insight to where her attention was in the game.

The bigger issue that I'd expect one could have with my vote switch that came after the post was why it didn't go to Gratuitous, but Nachomamma8 already brought that one up.

I'm not sure what you find scummy about the move even without knowing that though. I didn't use an unfair question against the person I was asking it of and I wasn't keeping her in danger of imminent lynch. It wasn't a transparent question, but there are aspects of town play that shouldn't be entirely transparent as this is a game of information control.
I was still sorting her motives and what to expect from her. Knowing what she was paying attention to is useful. Saying that I said the answer didn't matter doesn't match what I've told you.

I probably missed some stuff and didn't understand stuff fully, I think arguing about this one little post is not useful at this point and probably is just a playstyle difference. I scumread because I found it weird without much town motivation but I suppose it could just be you being you. I'll drop this one.

Beyond that I see that you're still sticking with the "Zorblag is a terribly clever and dangerous, sophisticated scum who could be fooling us all, but who also panicked at having a vote cast on him at day 2 and gave it all away," line of thought. Does that not strike you as an unlikely combination?

I don't know what speculative oversimplified AtE you're trying to accomplish here, but I think you were hoping that the rant you made would sway town members to solidify you as town. I can think of scum-motivation for it, but I can't really see town motivation. It was just too little pressure for you to burst your bubble. Honestly, you pointing it out is WIFOM, you painting yourself-scum in an oversimplified narrative here is WIFOM, and to answer your question, no, the way I see it what you're doing is not an unlikely combination at all. I'm only staying off your lynch today because I want actual content Rach and she's way scummier than you right now.

As for knowing why my play helps town, town should all know exactly how what they're doing will help town in the long run. If you don't then you're probably playing the game suboptimally. I'm not a perfect player as town, I'm worse than I am as scum because town is harder to play. Glancing at my wiki it looks like my town record was only 21-10. I do however know the things that I think will help town though, and I do them. If you'd like me to point you to other town games where I've had to make the same sorts of cases because town get stuck on thinking that play they don't understand or that draws attention to me is scummy just let me know. Saying that I'm scum because I have this knowledge is ridiculous.

Finally, if you're convinced that you've caught the entire scum team through process of elimination after a single day night cycle I guess I'm impressed by your conviction? Are your reads normally that dead on this early in the game? I don't expect town to be looking as little into the other cases that you're so sure of at this point if there's no room for error at all in your current reads. You aren't looking like town trying to figure out who's scum. You're looking like scum trying to make a wagon you thought was going to go somewhere happen.

My reads are rarely completely off. Even in Newbie 1222, I pegged Cinders and Ghost in my top three even if it was all horribad logical reasoning and gut. I usually get at least one scum in my top three scum. I'm almost positive one scum exists between you and Rach, if not two.

Overt-narcissism aside, no I'm not completely sure of my reads other than one of you/Rach being scum. I'm open to the idea of Foxbird-scum even if most of her D1 play was pretty town, I'm somewhat open to Nacho or Jaack scum. I've just spent basically all of my posting energy here directed at responding to your daily walls lol, since I am spread out over multiple games.

I do have more time now after exams (barely snagged my A in biochem!!), so I should be able to put more effort into this game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

innocentvillager · Post Post #373 (isolation #37) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:51 pm

In post 371, RachMarie wrote:Partly your play here reminds me very much of your play in that game.

How

And, how is it different from my towngames

RachMarie wrote:wait here I did not say that I was answering the newbie's question about it I agree it is a poor strategy which is why I figured you changed your mind in the previous game and nked BB instead.

Yah ik I was mostly personally responding to Zorb's accusation that I might've no killed which is kind of ridiculous

RachMarie wrote:I don't do spite votes and other crap like that you should know better Inno.

Yeah maybe idk it was just a possibility

More likely you're just using it as an excuse to try and paranoia vote me.

But if you have a good case for why me-scum here that makes meta sense then maybe I'll reconsider scumreading you for this vote.

Also, explain your read progression on me? What specifically changed?

innocentvillager · Post Post #377 (isolation #38) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:51 pm

In post 375, Zorblag wrote:UNVOTE: RachMarie

VOTE: innocentvillager

That should be L - 2.

I don't have time to say much just now, but I'll get to it this evening. The thing I like least about the recent posts though is his reaction to ecane's post and vote. I'll talk about that in more detail in a bit.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Zorblag this better be good af. That was arguably the most protown post I have made this whole day, and if you're town you should know what I'm talking about.

innocentvillager · Post Post #386 (isolation #39) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:49 am

In post 378, Zorblag wrote:So here's the problem with it coming from you. You're the reason that that post got made. You clearly set up PR speculation with your post to Nachomamma8 about really not wanting to talk about your reason in a newbie game. You're experienced enough with newbie games in particular to know that players are going to latch onto that and jump to that conclusion first. With a more experience player base you could probably not worry about that danger, but here, given what I've seen of your recent play, that can't have been a surprise at all. Up until you made that post I was giving you some benefit of the doubt, maybe you had some payoff in mind that was going to see a big reveal in this sort of situation. Which is what I tried to tell ecane in reaction to it. But you didn't and now you're even trying to claim town credit for it. Had you had a play that was pro-town in mind when you made the original post this would have been the place to out it. Please tell me how I'm wrong with that because if you are town I need to see that plan.

Fuck this shit. I'm not getting fucking scumread for this bullshit.

I townread foe because Zaicon replaced him in late into Night 1 without pausing the Night to have night discussion. Literally foe would've gotten no time to talk with partner in the queue, and letting one scum just decide the kill by themselves without the replacement is kind of silly.

innocentvillager · Post Post #387 (isolation #40) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:52 am

Rach's constant "uggh"s look fake as fuck.

In post 378, Zorblag wrote:blaming my posts for not trying is a crappy argument

I've honestly tried but do you see how much time and effort getting into these wall wars with you takes up? Have ever looked at one of your own walls? It's no wonder that I don't spent a lot of in-thread time engaging other players!

innocentvillager · Post Post #388 (isolation #41) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:55 am

In post 383, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 368, innocentvillager wrote:I'm comfortable with a Rach lynch today.
So you're comfortable in assuming a Rach/Zorblag team despite Zorblag voting Rach for a majority of the game?

Look, I explicitly said I don't know who the team is, and tbh I haven't done a ton of associative analysis yet but I will after the flip tonight for sure. I said I think Rach is scum, and I'm not sure who the other one is, but it could be Zorblag, less likely Foxbird/you/Jaack etc. Actually, seeing Rach's interactions with you make a you/Rach scumteam less likely. Rach/Zorblag is possible since they are independently scummy. Rach is the most fos'd player in the game generally, so I definitely wouldn't put it past Zorblag to bus her. Hell, I bus all the fucking time.

innocentvillager · Post Post #389 (isolation #42) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:57 am

In post 378, Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, given that you're claiming that's you're most pro-town post today I should know why you think that your post was pro-town regardless of my alignment, that's just an experience thing. And the post is pro-town-ish in isolation in that it helps if it comes from town and does no damage coming from scum, though NAI as any player aware enough to make it could react that way regardless of alignment after ecane's post.

This is the same argument I have against your "pro-town actions" and you keep dismissing it. Way to use your own logic against yourself.

innocentvillager · Post Post #394 (isolation #43) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:35 am

Zorblag I'll deal with you tomorrow.

But:

RachMarie wrote:Inno

YOU WERE IN THE GAME WITH TROLL he posted exactly like this

he got lynched

he flipped town

Can we lynch this holy shit I don't town-Rach is this bad

innocentvillager · Post Post #400 (isolation #44) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:46 am

Fine I'll respond to Zorb bc these are quick and easy to respond to

In post 392, Zorblag wrote:It's practically begging for inexperienced town to start talking about PRs and you should know that.

It didn't need to be. I have a read, I out it. I didn't think people would start talking about PRs. People would've asked me why I'm not considering foe. I'd say for reasons I don't want to talk about. There's nothing scummy about that, and your case here is garbage. It looks like you're just entrapped in confbias here trying to find scumtells from ordinary stuff like me giving a read.

Tbh, I'm starting to like you more for this point. This kind of looks like something town would come up with and not scum. Scum would've just left the issue alone I think, unless you really ARE that good of a scum.

As for me calling my post pro-town, there's no way you can scumread me for calling that post protown and not scumread you for naming off every single action of yours D1 as protown in that rant. "Shape of the game" or not (why does that even matter?), you can't have it benefit you both times. PLUS, I wouldn't have needed to call my post protown if you hadn't literally announced your scumread on me for it.

innocentvillager · Post Post #402 (isolation #45) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:47 am

In post 399, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 386, innocentvillager wrote:I townread foe because Zaicon replaced him in late into Night 1 without pausing the Night to have night discussion. Literally foe would've gotten no time to talk with partner in the queue, and letting one scum just decide the kill by themselves without the replacement is kind of silly.
Why did you wait to out this reasoning?

I just didn't want to explain it since I don't want to have to publicly explain tells based off of game mechanics, since it kind of compromises the integrity of the game. I didn't expect to have been heavily scumread by ecane and Zorblag for it, so I got annoyed and just explained why. I didn't even consider any of this PR bullshit argumentation would arise.

innocentvillager · Post Post #403 (isolation #46) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:48 am

In post 401, Nachomamma8 wrote:if Zorblag's posts are the most productive thing that you can respond to, then fine

If I don't respond to his walls he'll just keep pestering me for a response anyway. Plus I hate ignoring people and getting ignored.

innocentvillager · Post Post #404 (isolation #47) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:50 am

In post 395, RachMarie wrote:Troll how would you compare his play here to the game all three of us were in Newbie 1222

I can't see town!Rach logically actually curious about comparing my play here to 4 years ago.

Literally read the game, it's IV the VI fucking the town all the way to lylo

innocentvillager · Post Post #434 (isolation #48) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:25 pm

foedufafa wrote:And what the fuck both sides are you talking about? I don't know how to read IV and I've made my case clear on Rach. You think it's scummy that I think one of the three people that are going at each other's throats will most likely flip scum?

I'm weirdly bothered that you said "I don't know how to read IV" instead of "I can't read IV" or "I'm getting mixed signals from IV."

You read me the same as you would any other player. You shouldn't have a different method for reading each player, how weird would that be unless you're a super meta-dependent player, which you're clearly not?

innocentvillager · Post Post #435 (isolation #49) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:28 pm

@Rach

I've asked you these before but i really really want answers to them:

1) look at basically any scum Zorb game and explain why it's so different from him in here and 1222.
2) Explain why I'm playing like I am 500 games later in 1722 as well.

innocentvillager · Post Post #436 (isolation #50) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:30 pm

I worded (2) weirdly. It should be:

Explain why I'm playing similarly to 1722 scum-me, vs previous town me.

It looks like the only thing you have on me is that I want to lynch you and Zorb, who is apparently obvtown from one game we all played 4.5 years back.

innocentvillager · Post Post #437 (isolation #51) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:31 pm

@nacho y u town read rach

innocentvillager · Post Post #444 (isolation #52) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:45 pm

In post 436, innocentvillager wrote:I worded (2) weirdly. It should be:

Explain why I'm playing similarly to 1722 scum-me, vs previous town me.

It looks like the only thing you have on me is that I want to lynch you and Zorb, who is apparently obvtown from one game we all played 4.5 years back.

Rach plz reread my question 2 I'm referring to 1722 not 1222

innocentvillager · Post Post #445 (isolation #53) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:47 pm

In post 437, innocentvillager wrote:@nacho y u town read rach

Nacho I really want to see this

I can't buy town!Rach actually scumhunting like this

Her questions are so suboptimal and informationless that they don't look genuine at all

Her read on me is forced

She's not responding to me with logic

Plz nacho I townread you help me understand what's going on in your mind

innocentvillager · Post Post #446 (isolation #54) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:49 pm

In post 439, foedufafa wrote:It is weird that you're bothered by that because it means the same thing as the other two things you said...

I'm less bothered now if you think this, it looks more just like a you-wording thing which would make sense and I can't buy scum!you faking this lawl that's laughable.

Yeah I'm happy with foe in my town pile.

innocentvillager · Post Post #448 (isolation #55) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:18 am

@mod can we get prods on Zorblag, Ecane, Foxbird, and nacho if it goes over?

innocentvillager · Post Post #449 (isolation #56) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:19 am

Hey Zorblag look in town for requesting prods on everyone zzz -_-

innocentvillager · Post Post #505 (isolation #57) » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:49 pm

Hey sorry prodge, am busyt his weekend will post monday.

innocentvillager · Post Post #506 (isolation #58) » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:50 pm

In post 502, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 498, ecane wrote:Inno was unnecessary stalling with his reasoning on why he is so sure Foe is town, which turned out to be just a bad reasoning, and I don't see how misguiding like that helps town. It was obviosuly not stopping Foe from getting lynched, which he implied it would. Therefore, there was literally no need for him to be waiting to out that reasoning if he's town.
He is obviously not getting lynched today. A no lynch is probably not in our best interests. From Rach and foe, Rach seems scummier. If Rach gets lynched today and she flips scum they yeah, Inno-Rach team is probably not happening. More I'm reading Rach's posts though, more scummy they seem. She seems to be avoiding a hell of a lot stuff, and acknowledging all those that I probably wouldn't mind much not being acknowledged.
And actually, probably will get into this a little more:

I hate this post. In this post you lay out a very clear case for IV being scum and you show pretty decent conviction in believing that he is scum. You then immediately lay that conviction aside (which I feel is unnatural) to say that he is never getting lynched today; do you say that simply because you made a case once and then you didn't post again to push it? Why haven't you even tried to address or figure out why people are reading him as town? You then move from IV as your top suspect in this post to Rach as your top suspect and pretty freely acknowledge that they probably aren't scum together; what on earth is this about? If you were town, I don't think you'd be so happy to drop your IV read and move to Rach; it looks like you're taking advantage of the Rach wagon because it's there and will resume pushing your IV case once Rach flips town.

It also really bothers me that you didn't even acknowledge my Foe case; you asked for it, I know you saw it since this forum doesn't let you post without looking at the posts above you, but you didn't even see it worthy of a "hey Nacho I see your case I'll respond to it later"?

I actually agree with this like word for word

VOTE: ecane

Serious fos this time.

Rach is town, I'll sheep Nacho. Nacho underscored my one doubt about Rach too that she was town, and I like his case for town!Rach.

innocentvillager · Post Post #537 (isolation #59) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:20 pm

VT

dammit ecane.

innocentvillager · Post Post #538 (isolation #60) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:22 pm

Seeing that Nacho is basically town, Rach is probably town, Foxbird is most likely scum here since Jaack/Zorblag team doesn't really make sense.

I don't know what to think anymore.

innocentvillager · Post Post #539 (isolation #61) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:32 pm

In post 528, Nachomamma8 wrote:not as great as i felt about him yesterday

I really hate this post, and I'll explain why.

How am I suddenly higher on your shit list from last night to now?? What the fuck happened?

First of all, ecane dying was obvious and we were all fucked once ecane basically PR claimed. Ecane probably would've been killed regardless unless both scum are oblivious to this game.

Second, I didn't want foe lynched and hard townread him but all you guys were like "OMG lynch foe". Not only was he strong town from Zaicon's "slip" (I didn't want to use that as a tell so I didn't bring it up again), but he looked like very strong newbtown. Granted I didn't push this as much D3 as I should've since I was focused on other stuff, but still. And even if you don't townread me for it, at least you shouldn't be scumreading me for it lmao.

I don't know if I like you for town anymore, especially since I just realized JK/VT/Goon is a viable setup too. You should definitely explain why "you feel worse about me today than yesterday" if I have done nothing scummy since last night.

I only see scum-motivation for this. It looks like you could be setting me up to get lynched later today by casting doubt on me, and then playing up towncred by telling Rach to "not vote yet", but you're still setting the stage to ML on me. It feels like you're riding Rach's suspicions here. I might've mistakenly townread you earlier just because I agree with a lot of stuff you say, but I suppose even somewhat skilled scum can do that when they're trying to analyze the game from a "town perspective".

Nacho, what was the motivation behind claiming BP so early?

That was some scattered thoughts, but would like an explanation to this, let me know if you want something re-explained since it is late and I may not be fully coherent.

innocentvillager · Post Post #541 (isolation #62) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:59 pm

That's a good point.

I think we should no lynch.

innocentvillager · Post Post #543 (isolation #63) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:10 pm

honestly scum ccing bp might be a really optimal play

innocentvillager · Post Post #544 (isolation #64) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:10 pm

i mean speculatively thinking

innocentvillager · Post Post #548 (isolation #65) » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:35 am

Zorblag why are you so inclined to trust Nacho?? He's just as unclear as the rest of us.

innocentvillager · Post Post #549 (isolation #66) » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:36 am

*not clear, not as in unclear as in he's unsure lol

innocentvillager · Post Post #552 (isolation #67) » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:22 am

VOTE: no lynch

innocentvillager · Post Post #557 (isolation #68) » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:35 pm

Given that I have no strong town reads I would strongly like to no lynch and get another townie killed.

innocentvillager · Post Post #573 (isolation #69) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Uggh I really want an NL.

I don't think Nacho is so town that potentially losing him would be that detrimental (no offense, Nacho).

Also, if Nacho really is BP, he'll survive the night anyway.

I really think we should no lynch.

It'll decrease our lynch pool. Nachomamma can give his thoughts today, then if he dies, we use his input from the previous day. And there's no diagonal PR anymore to help us with new information.

innocentvillager · Post Post #580 (isolation #70) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:52 pm

In post 577, Jaack wrote:I don't think that Nacho would claim BP as scum. Going into today, he was probably the most universally townread player in the game. There would be relatively little advantage to fakeclaiming, as he probably wasn't going to be a primary lynch target today.

While I'm not going to just give him a free pass for the rest of the day, I'm going to focus my efforts elsewhere for now and just assume he is town unless someone makes a strong case as to why nacho would claim bp as scum in his situation.

No. Don't think like this. You're right that maybe there is no clear advantage (other than maybe wifoming people like you into townreading him), but there's definitely no clear disadvantage. Nacho claiming BP is completely null.

He was not universally townread. Ecane was. Nacho isn't at that point yet.

This is why I want a no lynch. Why purposefully increase the chances we have of lynching wrong? Just because we're getting "more input" doesn't mean we know whether or not that input is correct.

And plus, if Nacho is BP, he'll survive the night anyway.

innocentvillager · Post Post #581 (isolation #71) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:05 pm

In post 560, Zorblag wrote:innocentvillager is correct; I've decided that Nachomamma8 is town. What he did at the end of the day yesterday was totally unnecessary as scum and should have hurt his position a little. He actively got in and led us to a mislynch when he could easily have sat back and let the RachMarie lynch happen.

I haven't decided that Nacho is town. Nope.

How the hell is that town??? We lynched a pretty townie slot!!! Foe was clearly town due to the mod slip. He was towntelling in generally in his posts.

Zorblag, you seem to be under the assumption that anytime someone actively does something (pushes for wagon switch to foe) when they could alternatively not do something (let Rach get lynched) passively and still get a similar outcome, they're town. I think that's BS, since a lot of times scum's goal is to make it look like they are trying to scumhunt and have consistent reads. Nacho was "townreading" Rach all game, so it doesn't really make sense for him to let the lynch go through anyway. Regardless of Rach's alignment, the fact is that the other lynch he pushed (foe) flipped town, and now Rach is back in doubt again. It might've been more protown, honestly, to let the Rach lynch go through maybe.

The other thing is, NLing yesterday really wouldn't have been such a terrible idea. At least we would've had a ML today. It would've been kinda similar to today and redundant, sure, but not harmful.

Zorblag wrote:Reinforcing that is Nachomamma8's scum play in Newbie Game 1723. That's what a scum game should look like. Although some early posts here look similar he rode a low impact game to victory and never stepped in to make a change like he did here. There are a couple other differences I could point out between the two, but the big thing here is that I have a reason to believe that Nachomamma8, as scum, should play like I expect good scum to play. As of the end of the day yesterday we no longer have that.

While I appreciate posts like this, it's too vague and not going to convince me to get off Nacho. More specific examples please.

Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, if you're town you've been playing a game that attempts to keep scum in the dark as much as possible as to the true state of your beliefs. That was true for ecane in your entrance day one, it's true for how you reacted to ecane's PR claim, even up to using your vote for it at the end of the day. I suspect that was true for why you made yourstatement about foedufafa, though that ended up being an awful move in the long run. I strongly believe that you need to stop that at this point in the game though. I can't tell whether your post about Nachomamma8 is serious or not as it would fit with that pattern, but there are no power roles to protect at this time and actually hitting scum based on what everyone actually thinks about the other players needs to be town's priority now.

If you were so convinced that the mod had slipped and cleared foedufafa why not push that more?

Dude the only time I did that was for ecane at the ends of D1 and D2. D1 worked. D2 was a last ditch attempt to save ecane. I didn't expect much from that.

The foe townread was real. How is that not a mod slip? I didn't want to townread ecane based off of that, but the fact is, I noticed it, and it gave him significant townpoints. I'm not going to try to use a modslip to compromise the integrity of a mafia game, regardless of how town it made foe. I didn't want you guys to lynch him but honestly the only thing I could townread him off of otherwise was gut. And maybe that was confbiased by knowing foe was probably town via something else. So I kept quiet.

innocentvillager · Post Post #582 (isolation #72) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:08 pm

In post 563, Nachomamma8 wrote:Innocentvillager, when did you realize that ecane made the PR slip? Did you realize it when you voted her?

I was actually waiting for someone to ask this question, so minor townpoints for doing so.

I basically realized it after she said "There's no Cop in this setup". I don't usually gambit like how I did D1, so my first instinct was just to tell everyone to stfu, which I did. I realized later at some point that ecane was toast and that I should probably try to gambit to last ditch. Also, I saw your post against ecane and I was kind of inspired/reminded to do that. I thought your post against ecane actually was doing something similar in terms of gambiting suspicion, so I followed suit with you in a way.

innocentvillager · Post Post #583 (isolation #73) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:11 pm

In post 561, Nachomamma8 wrote:This post implies pretty strongly that she probably protected Zorblag from the kill Night 1; the most likely result of No Lynching at this point in time that I can see is probably scumteams killing Zorblag. If Zorblag is scum, one odd kill would not be enough to catch him, especially when he'd have the opportunity to shoot the player likeliest to vote him.

If this is true, this makes me further think that Zorblag is scum.

Zorblag would not have been the target; Caston was too scummy, plus me and Jaack were suspecting him.

ECANE should have been the target. Unless scum actually bought my gambit lol (I'm now less impressed with my ability to gambit on obvtownies).

I can maybe see newbtown fearkilling Zorblag, but I don't think his reads were so substantially right that it was a necessary kill.

innocentvillager · Post Post #589 (isolation #74) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:51 am

In post 584, Zorblag wrote:And really, you went from "Nachomamma8 is basically town" to "He's just as unclear as the rest of us" because he said he wasn't as sure you're town anymore? That's a huge swing for really garbage reasons.

I said that before I realized the BP claim was completely null and before I saw Nacho's inexplicable sudden weird scumread progression on me.

That's a huge oversimplification of why I scumread Nacho for that post, and if you read my post carefully, you would know it too.

Speaking of which, I just realized Nacho still hasn't responded to it.

@Nacho

I would like a response to my 539:

In post 539, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 528, Nachomamma8 wrote:not as great as i felt about him yesterday
I really hate this post, and I'll explain why.

How am I suddenly higher on your shit list from last night to now?? What the fuck happened?

First of all, ecane dying was obvious and we were all fucked once ecane basically PR claimed. Ecane probably would've been killed regardless unless both scum are oblivious to this game.

Second, I didn't want foe lynched and hard townread him but all you guys were like "OMG lynch foe". Not only was he strong town from Zaicon's "slip" (I didn't want to use that as a tell so I didn't bring it up again), but he looked like very strong newbtown. Granted I didn't push this as much D3 as I should've since I was focused on other stuff, but still. And even if you don't townread me for it, at least you shouldn't be scumreading me for it lmao.

I don't know if I like you for town anymore, especially since I just realized JK/VT/Goon is a viable setup too. You should definitely explain why "you feel worse about me today than yesterday" if I have done nothing scummy since last night.

I only see scum-motivation for this. It looks like you could be setting me up to get lynched later today by casting doubt on me, and then playing up towncred by telling Rach to "not vote yet", but you're still setting the stage to ML on me. It feels like you're riding Rach's suspicions here. I might've mistakenly townread you earlier just because I agree with a lot of stuff you say, but I suppose even somewhat skilled scum can do that when they're trying to analyze the game from a "town perspective".

Nacho, what was the motivation behind claiming BP so early?

That was some scattered thoughts, but would like an explanation to this, let me know if you want something re-explained since it is late and I may not be fully coherent.

As far as foedufafa goes, if you think you've got a strong reason to think that he was town (and you're standing by that mod-slip story to the point of asking now how it couldn't be the case,) saying that you're worried about the integrity of the game is absolute nonsense.

I'm not going to push against a town lynch because of a modslip. I'm not that petty, and it's not nonsense. Maybe you'd do it, but doesn't mean other people wouldn't.

innocentvillager · Post Post #590 (isolation #75) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:53 am

In post 587, RachMarie wrote:He has continually scum read you and me and yet it is clear that you and I are not scum team TvT yes but not a scum team.

Rach are you reading? Am I pushing for you guys today? Did you not see my sudden back off on your wagon?

And regardless, I explained all of these things. For you to scumread me solely for this is kind of ridiculous.

And a you/Zorb scumteam was definitely possible, and still is kind of possible (although less likely now).

I can understand if it's PoE you're scumreading me on, but even so you haven't been very clear in your townreads besides Zorb and Nacho.

innocentvillager · Post Post #591 (isolation #76) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:57 am

Actually like I said, with Zorb's continued insistence on what a "good traditional scumgame is" and here he is blatantly disregarding some of that, I'm inclined to townread Zorblag even if it's not the most attractive option given stuff like ecane's probable jail target.

Unless he's going for a massive overhaul of his "traditional" meta, I don't see Zorblag being scum here.

But honestly, if such were the case, I don't see how Zorblag's scum win rate is so high then. If he really plays the traditional scum game of posting a lot but not actually trying to actively push for activity and lynches, then shouldn't a simple meta of him expose his true intentions? Zorb, why distinguish your scumgame and towngame so much if meta is just going to come back and bite you in the ass?

innocentvillager · Post Post #594 (isolation #77) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:25 pm

Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, so your saying that you read Nachomamma8's claim, but not the two posts after that before making your first post today and that you take his answering RachMarie's question in an entirely understandable way to be evidence of a master plan he's trying to get you lynched down the road today. Ignoring for a second the fact that someone familiar with the setup shouldn't assume that a BP claim clears anyone at this stage in the game, that's a really self centered response.
Ignoring for a second the fact that someone familiar with the setup shouldn't assume that a BP claim clears anyone at this stage in the game, that's a really self centered response.

I did skim/read the posts at first. I didn't realize it was scummy until I thought about it a little more. The first two posts were a knee-jerk reaction to seeing ecane die and Nacho claim BP. Then I thought about it a bit more with my third post and reversed on Nacho. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Dude, if you read my accusation you would see that I am scumreading him for that because it literally makes no sense for him to feel "worse about me today than yesterday", given that everything I had done from the end of D2 to the beginning of the D3 was either pro-town or null. Explain how this is an "entirely understandable reaction", because Nacho isn't here to explain it. Stop condescending and misrepping me on every little stupid thing to try and discredit me. This needs to stop; I am seriously getting tired of responding to crap like this. If you're not sure if you're misrepping me or not, ask; at the very least, don't condescend me. That's what I try to do; by the same token, please feel free to call me out if I'm acting condescending towards you AND misrepping you at the same time without noting room for possible error in my interpretations.

Zorblag wrote:As far as not pushing against a lynch you think is town for whatever reason, if you're town that's probably playing against your win condition which is explicitly against the rules. If you're sure someone is town you should prevent their lynch. If you're pretty sure someone is town you should still make some effort. In fact, you know who did that right this game? Nachomamma8 with RachMarie. If you're really town and felt strongly about it, not making a bigger deal of that was a huge mistake (which is only compounded by the fact that the way you played it from the start outted our jailkeeper.)
vent their lynch. If you're pretty sure someone is town you should still make some effort. In fact, you know who did that right this game? Nachomamma8 with RachMarie. If you're really town and felt strongly about it, not making a bigger deal of that was a huge mistake (which is only compounded by the fact that the way you played it from the start outted our jailkeeper.)

Why the hell are we still arguing about this?? I'M NOT COMPROMISING THE GAME ON A MODSLIP. I DON'T CARE IF IT MAKES FOE TOWN. THIS IS A PLAYSTYLE DIFFERENCE. YOU CAN PUSH WHATEVER YOU WANT, I'LL PUSH WHATEVER I WANT.

Comparing me townreading foe based on a modslip to Nacho townreading Rach due to meta is a horrible, completely nonanalogous comparison. Nacho had game-related reasons to townread Rach. I liked his case for Rach-town, so I'm somewhat townreading Rach rn. I didn't really have such game-related reasons, other than possibly confbiased gut.

And let's just say I DID try to push against a foe lynch for whatever reason. You all didn't believe me anyway when I explained my reasoning, calling it a "crappy reason". What more could I have done, other than repeat my explanation on what happened during the night??

Zorblag wrote:And to repeat some questions you didn't answer, based on a number of posts you've made today, you seem to be fairly confident that Nachomamma8 would be the kill tonight and that he hasn't been targeted before. I don't think those are good assumptions. Could you talk about why that is or isn't something you're assuming? In particular calling for a no lynch after only Nachomamma8 shares what he has to say only benefits scum if they're potentially going to kill anyone else.

I never said Nachomamma will be the kill tonight.

I'm saying if he's the kill tonight, he'll (probably) survive it if he's BP. I don't think Nacho was townread enough on D1 to warrant getting shot. It's a possibility, sure, but even if Nacho dies tonight after we NL, it still eliminates a potential lynchpool candidate.

I will admit I may have oversimplified stuff when I said Nacho will (unconditionally) survive the night if he's BP. I didn't mean it that way, and I apologize if that was confusing.

If SOMEONE ELSE other than Nacho is the kill tonight, that would be even better, given how especially I don't have any strong townreads at this point.

Basically, my argument for no lynch can be summarized to this:

If someone other than Nacho dies, we lose a strong lynch pool suspect and increase our chances of winning. GOOD.

If Nacho gets hit, he'll likely survive the shot anyway, and we can just re-do whatever we were doing today with no consequence. STILL OKAY.

If Nacho gets hit and dies, then we lose a uncleared, useless PR who was still a potential lynchpool candidate anyway, even if he is somewhat townread by the town (I am especially okay with this scenario, because I am not as convinced Nacho is town anymore).

The sole merit of not NLing: Losing a town voice (maybe).

BUT firstly, this one town voice might not be right either. Why is their input so valuable? Secondly, we also wouldn't have known whether or not that town voice was actually town or scum if we don't NL anyway, so what's the point if we still can't trust anyone today?

Zorblag wrote:As far as my scum game and the meta of it goes, my posts look similar individually to my town posts, but I do tend to post less as scum when I can do so without drawing too much attention (or when drawing lurking attention is less detrimental than posting and needing to take a position on something that it's better not to.) Those familiar with my scum meta can actually pick out my scum games reasonably well. In fact, I've had to target players early in the game to kill specifically because of that (Mini 1090 is a great example of that where I had to spend my first three nights killing VP Baltar and a 1-shot BP Vi just because there's no way they wouldn't know I was playing my scum game by endgame. I'm helped by the fact that those who would be dangerous to me because they can do that are also perfectly reasonable kills in the games for plenty of other reasons so I can get those kills in without raising any suspicion. I'm also helped immensely by the fact that most towns just aren't very good; they get caught up in stupid things that they think are scum tells, aren't inclined to look at motivations properly and certianly aren't going to take the time to look back at players scum and town games in enough detail to notice what the differences are. If I played with the same group of fairly competent players on a regular basis, my scum game would either have to step up to meet that challenge or I'd lose more. I'm good at scum, but good at scum is relative to the games as they're played (or at least as they were played 4 to 8 years ago.)

This actually makes sense, and I am inclined to give you some townpoints for it.

Expect a massive, massive re-examination of all of your meta if you are scum this game, though.

innocentvillager · Post Post #595 (isolation #78) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:27 pm

I have a weird feeling the scumteam is Foxbird/Jaack.

innocentvillager · Post Post #597 (isolation #79) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:03 pm

In post 596, Zorblag wrote:This is exactly what you've been fucking doing to me all game and I'm sick of you saying that I'm the one doing it to you. You just can't imagine how done I am of your crap this game. You need to get over yourself and your obsession with me.

Whatever, let's just start over man. It's clear that we think we're misrepping each other, getting angry at each other for probably no good reason and that our wall wars are really not productive. I replaced into this game for the sole reason of wanting to play a game with both you and Rach, can we calm tensions between us? I'll apologize for my half of the issue, you apologize for your half, and let's move on. Please <3.

Really don't want to respond to the rest of that post since I think we're beating a dead horse here.

Fine, I'll stop advocating for NL since you all are so against it.

Zorblag, let me ask you a simple question: do you actually think I am scum at this point? Or are you just pissed at me?

innocentvillager · Post Post #598 (isolation #80) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:05 pm

I'm not implying that we shouldn't have arguments later in the game if they don't arise, I just want this pissing match between us to stop since we're both just getting aggravated at each other, if you will agree with me to that.

innocentvillager · Post Post #603 (isolation #81) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:15 pm

@Zorb how does Fox/Jaack team look.

Jaack was weirdly engaged with Fox, almost as a distancing attempt. He even voted her early, but lifted pressure when no one really pursued.

Both of them read null-lean town to me and tbh a lot of why I townread Fox and Jaack were stupid things like "proactivity in early game", or like "stuff that i agreed with", etc.

innocentvillager · Post Post #604 (isolation #82) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:16 pm

Would like others to engage me on this as well if you are alive out there..

innocentvillager · Post Post #607 (isolation #83) » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:55 am

That implies you think one of me/Rach is scum. Which one is scum?

innocentvillager · Post Post #608 (isolation #84) » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:56 am

That's an interesting observation, I guess I'll have to look a little deeper then.

What happened to everyone in this game lol

innocentvillager · Post Post #610 (isolation #85) » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:01 am

@Fox

your read on me and Zorb and why?

Feel free to skim our wall wars btw, you don't have to read them in detail if you don't want to bc honestly it's just us misrepping each other and getting annoyed.

innocentvillager · Post Post #621 (isolation #86) » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:10 pm

In post 539, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 528, Nachomamma8 wrote:not as great as i felt about him yesterday
I really hate this post, and I'll explain why.

How am I suddenly higher on your shit list from last night to now?? What the fuck happened?

First of all, ecane dying was obvious and we were all fucked once ecane basically PR claimed. Ecane probably would've been killed regardless unless both scum are oblivious to this game.

Second, I didn't want foe lynched and hard townread him but all you guys were like "OMG lynch foe". Not only was he strong town from Zaicon's "slip" (I didn't want to use that as a tell so I didn't bring it up again), but he looked like very strong newbtown. Granted I didn't push this as much D3 as I should've since I was focused on other stuff, but still. And even if you don't townread me for it, at least you shouldn't be scumreading me for it lmao.

I don't know if I like you for town anymore, especially since I just realized JK/VT/Goon is a viable setup too. You should definitely explain why "you feel worse about me today than yesterday" if I have done nothing scummy since last night.

I only see scum-motivation for this. It looks like you could be setting me up to get lynched later today by casting doubt on me, and then playing up towncred by telling Rach to "not vote yet", but you're still setting the stage to ML on me. It feels like you're riding Rach's suspicions here. I might've mistakenly townread you earlier just because I agree with a lot of stuff you say, but I suppose even somewhat skilled scum can do that when they're trying to analyze the game from a "town perspective".

Nacho, what was the motivation behind claiming BP so early?

That was some scattered thoughts, but would like an explanation to this, let me know if you want something re-explained since it is late and I may not be fully coherent.

Nacho plz

innocentvillager · Post Post #623 (isolation #87) » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:13 pm

Interesting zorb

innocentvillager · Post Post #624 (isolation #88) » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:14 pm

Briefly explain jaack/each interactions plz?

innocentvillager · Post Post #631 (isolation #89) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:37 am

In post 628, Nachomamma8 wrote:Yelling at us for lynching him when the only reasons you had for townreading him were poor angleshooty ones (I've replaced into plenty of scum slots, and I don't think I've ever had night deadline extended for me a single time) is a bit... weird? hypocritical? Not sure what word in particular I'm seeking here, but don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with this line of thought.

You've replaced into lots of scum slots DURING the end of the night phase? It just doesn't seem fair at all to not let scum talk during the night and have one person decide kill by themselves. When I replace in the middle of the night, deadline is usually delayed for that reason (although, it's only happened like twice if I can recall correctly), regardless of my alignment.

Anyway, this was long past. What are you trying to accomplish with this question?

And when are you going to respond to my post that I've tried to get you to respond to like 2-3 times??

innocentvillager · Post Post #632 (isolation #90) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:40 am

In post 627, Jaack wrote:@IV - Who was your prefered lynch option at the end of D2. You've walked back your ecane suspicion, you townread Rach at the end of the day, and you were obviously against the foe lynch. Zorblag? Me? Foxbird?

This is a good question, and tbh, I didn't know. I liked Nacho's case for town-Rach, so me being all for a Rach lynch was suddenly dissolved.

I never suspected ecane, ever. Lol.

I would've been fine with any of you/Zorb/Foxbird, but I didn't know who or why so I didn't push. Also, an NL was not a bad option at that point, since we would just get the ML later, so I didn't really see any priority in pushing a lynch. Ecane was almost certainly going to die anyway.

I could've tried to stop the foe lynch, but honestly there was not much else I could've said. I said my reasoning why, most of you thought it was a "poor angleshooty reason", so there's not much else I can do to stall such a lynch.

innocentvillager · Post Post #633 (isolation #91) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:41 am

I really think scum is in Nacho/Jaack/Foxbird. Rach and Zorb are looking townier.

innocentvillager · Post Post #634 (isolation #92) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:42 am

Also, V/LA until August 27th, I have college move-in among various seminars I need to attend.

I'll still try to post a couple of times in that period though.

innocentvillager · Post Post #640 (isolation #93) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:51 pm

In post 638, Jaack wrote:not so slim chance it's nacho.

FTFY

innocentvillager · Post Post #641 (isolation #94) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:53 pm

VOTE: Foxbird

innocentvillager · Post Post #643 (isolation #95) » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:01 pm

In post 635, Jaack wrote:You were fine with a number of lynch options, but not with the two options prefered by town. Okay. Then why spend your time voting ecane, when not only did you already assume she was almost certainly going to die, but had already tried and explained your reasoning for the same trick with the same player earlier that day?

It was a last ditch attempt. I didn't think it was going to work, but maybe it would work. It was possible that mafia wouldn't think I would do the same thing twice out of like WIFOM or some shit.

What was my alternative? I didn't have a strong case on anyone else, nor were they either the two lynch targets I opposed.

innocentvillager · Post Post #646 (isolation #96) » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:00 am

Idk I think it's definitely possible we are all town. I'm town reading both of you (jaack to a lesser extent) and there were 8 people (with 5 to lynch) so it's possible scum were just watching to see what would happen since it looked like we were all hard on each other. They could've gotten annoyed when tensions between us gradually dissolved.

innocentvillager · Post Post #649 (isolation #97) » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:11 am

K I'm satisfied with that response

innocentvillager · Post Post #659 (isolation #98) » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:46 pm

In post 651, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 650, RachMarie wrote:nacho I think inno is scum

not sure who is buddy is poss foxbird
i think that jaack is your partner.

wat do you think rach is scum now

innocentvillager · Post Post #660 (isolation #99) » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:47 pm

In post 657, Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, you said at some point today that RachMarie is seeming more town to you. Did you mean that she's seeming more town today than she did at the end of the day yesterday or is this carryover from the Nachomamma8 defense?

latter

I haven't looked too much at her since the Nacho defense

innocentvillager · Post Post #667 (isolation #100) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:13 am

Lol this activity doe

innocentvillager · Post Post #668 (isolation #101) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:13 am

I will get some content up after the VLA I promise lol

innocentvillager · Post Post #675 (isolation #102) » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:25 pm

We should NL instead of make a hasty decision. Clearly we haven't come to a consensus yet.

innocentvillager · Post Post #676 (isolation #103) » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:25 pm

VOTE: no lynch

innocentvillager · Post Post #701 (isolation #104) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:12 am

K guys we have 1 day. We either decide on someone or NL (I suggest the latter).

Jaack's vote on me was pretty bad honestly, so I could go for a Jaack lynch if people really want to.

Honesty, I'm okay with a Jaack/Foxbird team. I think Rach/Nacho are town enough for us to assume that.

innocentvillager · Post Post #702 (isolation #105) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:16 am

In post 700, Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, care to make a case on Foxbird?

I mean, I don't know if I can come up with something specific without being strongly biased. The biggest indicator at this point is her really null-like ISO. Everything is very safe, she's stimulating content at the beginning but not really driving anything useful, she's been lurking out and posting safe posts lately, it just looks so null. I townread her at the beginning for the activity and general willingness to scumhunt, but a) I don't see that here b) It's not much of a tell anyway, especially when it's not consistent and that kind of thing is fairly fakeable depending on the person.

Of course, PoE helps too, since I have townreads on Nacho>Rach>You

innocentvillager · Post Post #706 (isolation #106) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:49 am

In post 704, Zorblag wrote:@innocentvillager, when did Nachomamma8 switch back for you? That's a hard turn if it's based on his answers to your questions (which were more or less what I told you they were.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I kind of reskimmed his ISO and I just don't see much scum intent in his posts. Yeah the answers helped but weren't the determining factor. I wanted to hear it from him, not you lol. I kind of thought his suspicion towards me was based on some me-specifc which I thought was illogical/therefore scummy bc Nacho is a good player, not because he was equally more wary of everyone else

innocentvillager · Post Post #722 (isolation #107) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:12 pm

What the fuck? Is the remaining scum an idiot or?

innocentvillager · Post Post #723 (isolation #108) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:44 pm

How is nacho confirmed??

innocentvillager · Post Post #734 (isolation #109) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:51 am

Lmfao jk I'm the idiot for not realizing nacho was confirmed after 4 days :/

Will get to this soon

innocentvillager · Post Post #735 (isolation #110) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:53 am

Yeah actually the only way this rationally makes sense is if scum tried to kill nacho n1 but failed because they were jailed or nacho was jailed.

innocentvillager · Post Post #737 (isolation #111) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:57 am

I don't think hammering Jaack gives her that many town points. Imagine if she hadn't hammered. Either I would hammer and get the towncred, or no one would hammer and she would look bad for not hammering when we decide to lynch Jaack the next day. I think the best move for scum!Foxbird is to hammer Jaack in that situation.

In fact

VOTE: Foxbird

I might be persuaded to vote rach but I hunk Foxbird is a better lynch rn

innocentvillager · Post Post #738 (isolation #112) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:28 am

Nacho how sure are you that zorb was jailed N1?

innocentvillager · Post Post #749 (isolation #113) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:22 am

Spoiler: Responding to stuff

innocentvillager · Post Post #752 (isolation #114) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:33 am

In post 737, innocentvillager wrote:I don't think hammering Jaack gives her that many town points. Imagine if she hadn't hammered. Either I would hammer and get the towncred, or no one would hammer and she would look bad for not hammering when we decide to lynch Jaack the next day. I think the best move for scum!Foxbird is to hammer Jaack in that situation.

In fact

VOTE: Foxbird

I might be persuaded to vote rach but I hunk Foxbird is a better lynch rn

I don't think an NL would have been good for a Fox/Jaack team. Fox needs towncred at this point to survive, and she has a lot to gain by hammering her partner.

innocentvillager · Post Post #753 (isolation #115) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:34 am

The reason it's not super scummy that I didn't hammer is because I've been pushing for NL the whole day. Foxbird has been all for lynching Jaack (supposedly, even if she didn't really vote him late game), so she kind of has to otherwise she looks real bad.

innocentvillager · Post Post #755 (isolation #116) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:45 am

Okay so will you drop the "fox can't be scum because she hammered her partner" case given what I just said..?

innocentvillager · Post Post #758 (isolation #117) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:10 am

Foxbird wrote:Fyi, me being mellow/soft-spoken and a hesitant voter is a personality thing and gets me scumread a lot. I'm working on it.

As for the vague reads in my last post: Zorblag had asked me to comment on interactions without accounting for scumminess, so that's why it's phrased that way.

I still think inno is scum and I won't lynch in Zorblag/Nacho.

Okay, but I am still really not a fan of that post because now it just looks like you're not interested in the interactions between YOURSELF, you're only interested in responding to Zorblag's question. If you were town, imo you would respond to that, be interested in the conclusion you derived from typing out your answer to Zorb's question, and then clarify your reads/further narrow down who is scum between me/Rach/whoever else. I don't see your desire to figure out the last scum here, only really that you're trying to answer Zorblag's questions whenever he asks you to give input.

My hypothesis is that you've basically given up at this point, pissed your pants after realizing that Nacho didn't die, and realized you'll surely get caught in at least one of the 2 MLs we now have.

innocentvillager · Post Post #759 (isolation #118) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:11 am

In post 758, innocentvillager wrote:like you're not interested in the interactions
between
YOURSELF,

ebwop

innocentvillager · Post Post #787 (isolation #119) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:27 am

In post 783, Nachomamma8 wrote:Foxbird, could you talk more about your Rach read? Right now it seems like you're driving inno/Jaack pretty hard, but Rach doesn't really seem to be a strong consideration although your townread on her doesn't seem all that strong. My concern with this approach is that it's the most convenient for you as scum; you get to push through an inno lynch, and you don't have to worry about going back on your Rach read all that much if you don't elaborate on her all that much.

Zorblag, I have trouble picturing a world where Rach is both scum and also ends up shooting at me twice in this game/intentionally shooting at me to remove my vest. She has more motive to keep me alive than anyone else (my townread on her is abnormally strong and I've generally had the clout to push wagons away from her), whereas if Foxbird's shot on me went through she'd have a more comfortable route to victory (inno is alive for Rach to tunnel on, you are alive to tunnel on Rach. What are your thoughts on this?

This

innocentvillager · Post Post #795 (isolation #120) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:40 pm

prodge, let me know if there is something specific any of you want me to answer to, school is picking up so I will have less time (although hopefully this game will be over soon if fox is scum)

Nacho and Rach if you're ready can we vote foxbird

innocentvillager · Post Post #800 (isolation #121) » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:54 pm

I honestly just think fox has given up at this point

innocentvillager · Post Post #817 (isolation #122) » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:41 pm

Hey, sorry I have a lot of thoughts about this game, but was happy that I finally realized that it was Jaack Fox team. Got weirdly sidetracked on Zorblag--almost everything was telling me he was obvtown but I was just kind of too paranoid to admit it in-thread until later.

@Zorb I'm sorry I frustrated you so much, I really just did just want to have a reunion with you and Rach so I wanted to engage with you as much as I could, still <3 you. And you too Rach!

I think the main thing that made me latch onto the Jaack/Fox team was just how like null/slightly protown you guys were and that awkward bus at the beginning, while ecane/Zorblag/Rach were just obvtowning it up most of the time (and Nacho to an extent as well).

Overall good game, and thanks to all the newbies for playing: I highly encourage you to play more games on this site! This is probably my last one for a while because of school and stuff, but I would play more if I have time.