Newbie 1756: Balloon (Game Over)

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Hi all. I'm here. I was wondering when the game was gonna start, I signed in to find out it started almost 24 hours ago! Sorry for not checking in sooner! Time flies when you sleep 12 hours after staying up for 30 hours and wake up with a hangover because of a long drinking session! Lolz.

Anyways, sorry for fluff, this is my 2nd Mafia game on this site and about 20th or something Mafia game altogether.

Indeed, as the IC said, we're in the Random Voting Stage.

I'm gonna vote for "nalsco" for [insert reason here]

VOTE: nalsco

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I go to bed in 2 hours folks, so just a heads up. I'll be posting again first thing in the morning

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Like any other player, it's not enough info to go on.

I'd be more likely to be suspicious of them from sharing so much detail about a past game, as if to confuse us, rather than for the specific info shared, tbh. Like why so much info? Rather than what it was.

As good a vote as any at this stage. I do think overthinking anyone at this stage is more likely to do harm than good. Best to keep our minds open to everyone.

Hope that helps

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Nah I'm not confused about anything they said per say... it's mainly more that I dunno why they mentioned

about

their last game... like, as a general rule I think it's best to not talk about past games without a good reason. I mentioned myself, for example, that I'd played one other game here and about 20 other games elsewhere but I'm not going to talk

about

those games.

Yeah I think keeping our minds open is definitely best at this stage.

Hmm, on my post where i said I was going to bed in two hours it looks like I made that post a lot later than I thought I did. I go to bed in just under an hour's time from now. It's 1:01 A.M. GMT here, I got to bet at 2.AM.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Nah I'm not confused about anything they said per say... it's mainly more that I dunno why they mentioned

about

their last game... like, as a general rule I think it's best to not talk about past games without a good reason.

Do you think there was scum motivation behind mentioning that I had received my first vote?

I have no idea. Probably not. The chances are that anyone in particular is town because the majority as town.

Best to keep ours eyes open to everyone.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

iirc, they got nominated for a scummy by titus b/c they played so well

Transcend, what was the intention or point you were trying to made when you wrote this post?

@WeCanSimplyBeOurselves: What do you think about Morning Tweet? Is she someone to be extra paranoid about because she's apparently a really good scum player who got nominated for a scummy on her first game? Or do you think we should treat her like any other player?

To alert everyone she's a good scum.

If she's town alerting everyone that if she were scum she'd be good at being scum doesn't benefit town.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm a lot fluffier than most when it comes to talking about when I'm gonna be away and when I have to go and my sleep times and stuff. I'd feel rude if I didn't mention when I was leaving and why.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Goodnight all.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Good morning all.

Mafia is a game about understanding and analyzing people. The aim of the game is to look at someone's posting and reverse-engineer it to figure out what sort of person they are like. From there, we can decide if they would be more likely to act like this as town or scum.

One good source of information about a person is their past games, so it makes sense to look at someone's previous play to get a better understanding of them as a person, with the knowledge of what their alignment was that game. While we should be careful to avoid slavishly relying on only that information, there's no doubt that it can be a very useful scumhunting tool if used appropriately.

I agree that looking at someone's previous play is a good way to do that... but when it's coming directly from the player themselves and all we have is their word to go by then we can only really trust them if they already happen to be town--which kind of makes it redundantly NAI.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I agree that looking at someone's previous play is a good way to do that... but when it's coming directly from the player themselves and all we have is their word to go by then we can only really trust them if they already happen to be town--which kind of makes it redundantly NAI.

But it's not! We can go to Morning Tweet's game and examine her scumplay for ourselves, for instance.

Oh. I didn't realize we were allowed to do that.

Well... unless we do that though we still only really have her word.

I think it's strange because it seems like I'm casting a scummy vibe on her, but I'm not. I'm basically just standing by how I think talking about one's self in a past game is as much of a way to

seem

town as it is to be town. I'm null on her.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I don't think wanting to seem town is a bad thing. What I mean is it's just as indicative of a scum player seeming town as a town player being town

And whilist it's important to not get lynched, it's far more of a concern for scum players. For townies the focus should be almost entirely on finding and lynching scum.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Aside from scum-slips it's just as easy for scum to seem town as town to seem town. Town should just be honest and go for the scum rather than focusing on preserving their image, IMO.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm going out shopping. Back later folks.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay I'm back folks.

I'm mostly interested in the exchange between Acc and Char right now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm trying to work out if Acc and Char are two townies, or if one of them is scum.

For some reason my gut is telling me they're not in a scum team together. Seems like way too good of an act for that. Either one of them is scum or they're both townies, IMO.

@ Acc

This is an answer to your question about what to make about you two. Hats off to both of you if I'm wrong about you both not being a scum team! I seriously doubt that that's the case. Seems far too genuine.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Hi all. Not feeling very well today, sorry for being here late. I'm sure I'll be okay later today... my immune system is pretty strong.

Anyways:

Norska's comment about having already made a mistake didn't sound genuine to me. My gut tells me it was an excuse. It very well could have been genuine and I could be wrong but it's the best I've got to go on right now.

VOTE: Norska]

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm off to bed guys. Just saying so you know why I'll be gone for multiple hours. It's 2.AM here now. My bedtime.

I'll be interested to see how this has developed in the morning. Ni night.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I think you're perhaps both town. Just different playstyles. That's my gut. Scum like to watch town at each other's throats.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I think we need to pressure the more inactive players.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I think we need to pressure the more inactive players.

Perhaps you should start by voting one of them, then.

I already am.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

u do realize

that the inactive players may not even be aware this game is a thing right now

just wait for them to get replaced, tunneling inactives is a very bad and useless idea.

Yes I'm aware that the inactive players may not even be aware this game is a thing right now. Yes tunnelling inactives is a bad idea if they're not aware it's a thing and they're going to get replaced.

You are assuming, however, that they're not lurking intentionally. Pressure voting the less active players so they actually post so we can read them is a good way for town to defend itself against scum lurkers.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I said we need to pressure the more inactive players not the completely inactive players. We need to pressure people who are likely to be actively lurking. Accountant asked me why I wasn't voting for one of the more active players then but I already was and still am.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I said we need to pressure the more inactive players not the completely inactive players. We need to pressure people who are likely to be actively lurking. Accountant asked me why I wasn't voting for one of the more active players then but I already was and still am.

Who do you think was actively lurking at that point?

Not sure but Norska is a possibility. I was already voting for them before Accountant told me to vote for someone more inactive if I think they need to be pressured. My response was "I already am".

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I said more inactive players, not completely inactive players. Norska seemed the only person who was rather inactive but not completely active. Which could have been lurking.

I think both Char and Accountant are town. Norska is either null or a little scummy. Rest completely null. This is all by my gut.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Yes.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

u do realize

that the inactive players may not even be aware this game is a thing right now

just wait for them to get replaced, tunneling inactives is a very bad and useless idea.

Yes I'm aware that the inactive players may not even be aware this game is a thing right now. Yes tunnelling inactives is a bad idea if they're not aware it's a thing and they're going to get replaced.

You are assuming, however, that they're not lurking intentionally. Pressure voting the less active players so they actually post so we can read them is a good way for town to defend itself against scum lurkers.

You say you want to apply pressure against the active lurkers, but other than generic calls to lynch the lurkers and planting your vote on Norska you haven't actually pushed any wagons or done anything to get people on board and exert more pressure. Are you just applying pressure for the sake of wanting to apply pressure, or do you actually care about making them feel fear?

I was hoping people would join me, it appears I'm the only one who thinks pressure voting the active lurkers is a good idea.

I do want to make them feel fear. And I do care. It looks like no one agrees with me though.

At this point I'm thinking transcend seems scummy to my gut.

VOTE: Transcend

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I was hoping people would join me, it appears I'm the only one who thinks pressure voting the active lurkers is a good idea.

I do want to make them feel fear. And I do care. It looks like no one agrees with me though.

At this point I'm thinking transcend seems scummy to my gut.

VOTE: Transcend

Transcend is a townlean for me at the moment, so you'll need to provide reasoning if you want me to get on board.

Just want to add Transcend is certainly NOT a lurker. Is pressuring the active lurkers suddenly a less good idea when no one joins you?

Be honest now, are you trying to deflect the Charloux wagon?

Well partially yes, honestly, I am because along with Accountant, Charloux is one of my townie reads.

Yes of course pressuring the active lurkers is suddenly a less good idea when no one joins me. It's pointless for me to pressure vote someone by myself. That's not pressure.

I'm gonna go back and show you the post of Transcend's that I found scummy. I'm not sure why I find it scummy I just get a scummy vibe from it from my gut. Brb.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay guys time for a reads list from me, I post them fairly frequently, They help me out quite a bit to organize my thoughts. The higher tier a player is in, the more likely I think they are to be town.

RN I'ma rock n roll with something like this:

{thatsit}
{Accountant, Morning Tweet, Manuel87}
{MisaTange}
{NorskaBlue, WeCantBeOurselves}
{Charloux}

Here you go. Vibe isn't genuine to me. Dunno why.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

It's all by gut. I said that I felt like you and Char were two townies going at each other.

I would question people but in my experience of playing Mafia I just get ignored so I prefer to watch for reactions and go by gut. If I think of any argument I'll give one but I'd need to see a scum slip or have sort of actual objective argument.

Anyway I'm 3 hours 12 minutes past my bedtime. I'm going to bed now.

This always happens. I just speak my mind and tell the truth and people doubt me because I don't play like most people do and because I'm verbose. I'm just me. I'm doing my best guys. Apologies to town if I'm not helping much. I'm trying my best. This is how I play.

Goodnight.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

WCS, here is a question for you.

You have two people that you'd like to lynch: Transcend and Norska. For Transcend, the reasoning is due to your gut. For Norska, it's because they're active lurking. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to vote Norska than Transcend here? After all, you have actual reasoning for your Norska lynch so it's way more likely that people will follow you onto it. If you moved off Norska because you felt people wouldn't join you, then it makes no sense to move

onto

Transcend, who is even worse in terms of "will people join you on this wagon", since he's townread by a few people and you have no reasoning except gut. Not only that, you're saying that you trust your gut more than your reasoning regarding Norska. Is that true?

Well I have two scum leans so I should vote for whichever people are willing to vote along with me. I agree that my reason for voting Norska is stronger but no one is willing to join me on the Norska wagon. My vote is pointless by itself, no scum is going to get lynched that way.

Nah it's not true that I trust my gut more than my reasoning. It's that even if I have a better reason for lynching someone else, if no one's going to buy it and no one's going to join me then it's futitle for me to bang my head against a brick wall. If they're not going to join me they're not going to join me. Most of all I just want to get a scum player lynched.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I definitely prefer being asked questions to asking questions.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Although I just realized that I've fallen into the trap of thinking about who's scum/town if X flips scum/town. This is called pre-flip association, and we should probably avoid engaging in it because it tends to be a house of cards, as well as a waste of time. For example, if I spend too much time talking about Charloux in the event that WCS flips scum, that's worthless if WCS flips town. It would be far better to wait until WCS actually flips, and then talk about who's scum or town based on that.

Instead, let's refocus on Charloux. WCS, you've stated a gut town read on Charloux. Do you think your gut town read outweighs the scummy activity that the rest of us have pointed out?

I don't really believe you "just realized" that even for a second.

Good acting from an experienced player is what I call it. You've moved from a slight town lean to my strongest scum lean.

VOTE: Accountant

The one thing I was most certain about is that Char and Accountant are not scum buddies. It seemed to me like they're perhaps both town talking past each other. After this post quoted above Accountant has moved to the scummiest lean for me and Char has thereby gone from a slight town lean (along with accountant who has now became scum) to a much stronger town lean. They'er not both scum and not only does Char seem townish to me, and genuinely frustrated at people taking his jokes too seriously rather than acting, but Account does appear to be acting and if they're not both scum and Accountant is, IMO, very likely to be scum then that makes Char a strong town lean along with Accountant being a strong scum lean, IMO.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

WCS, here is a question for you.

You have two people that you'd like to lynch: Transcend and Norska. For Transcend, the reasoning is due to your gut. For Norska, it's because they're active lurking. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to vote Norska than Transcend here? After all, you have actual reasoning for your Norska lynch so it's way more likely that people will follow you onto it. If you moved off Norska because you felt people wouldn't join you, then it makes no sense to move

onto

Transcend, who is even worse in terms of "will people join you on this wagon", since he's townread by a few people and you have no reasoning except gut. Not only that, you're saying that you trust your gut more than your reasoning regarding Norska. Is that true?

Well I have two scum leans so I should vote for whichever people are willing to vote along with me. I agree that my reason for voting Norska is stronger but no one is willing to join me on the Norska wagon. My vote is pointless by itself, no scum is going to get lynched that way.

Nah it's not true that I trust my gut more than my reasoning. It's that even if I have a better reason for lynching someone else, if no one's going to buy it and no one's going to join me then it's futitle for me to bang my head against a brick wall. If they're not going to join me they're not going to join me. Most of all I just want to get a scum player lynched.

Uh...?

Did anyone express interest in lynching me at all?

This sounds pretty fake.

Not yet they didn't but I already know no one is interested in lynching Norska.

You're still a slight scum lean for me. I think you and Accountant are scum buddies, but most of all I strongly suspect Accountant is scum and Char is town.

I care little for your opinion of how I sound to you because I am still leaning you as slightly scum. It matters somewhat what town thinks of me but what is most important is getting scum lynched and just being transparent about who I think is scum and honest about why, whether it be gut or argument. And whoever gets lynched tonight I hope town can piece things together based on the results of the flip.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

If nobody is buying your 'Norska active lurker' case, what makes you think that people will buy your 'Transcend gutread' case? Your reason for scum-gutreading Transcend is their reads list. Have you ever thought of asking why they read people the way that they do?

P-Edit: I'll answer Transcend's question when I'm not on mobile, rip.

I already know no one is getting on board when it comes to Norska. Any chance however remote of someone getting on board my slight scumlean of transcend is better than the zero chance of getting on board with Norska.

But I don't think Norska is scum anymore now anyway. I think Transcend is far more likely to be Accountant's scum buddy than Norska. My gut tells me now that they're working together.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Accountant was a slight town lean until I made this observation:

Although I just realized that I've fallen into the trap of thinking about who's scum/town if X flips scum/town. This is called pre-flip association, and we should probably avoid engaging in it because it tends to be a house of cards, as well as a waste of time. For example, if I spend too much time talking about Charloux in the event that WCS flips scum, that's worthless if WCS flips town. It would be far better to wait until WCS actually flips, and then talk about who's scum or town based on that.

Instead, let's refocus on Charloux. WCS, you've stated a gut town read on Charloux. Do you think your gut town read outweighs the scummy activity that the rest of us have pointed out?

I don't really believe you "just realized" that even for a second.

Good acting from an experienced player is what I call it. You've moved from a slight town lean to my strongest scum lean.

VOTE: Accountant

The one thing I was most certain about is that Char and Accountant are not scum buddies. It seemed to me like they're perhaps both town talking past each other. After this post quoted above Accountant has moved to the scummiest lean for me and Char has thereby gone from a slight town lean (along with accountant who has now became scum) to a much stronger town lean. They'er not both scum and not only does Char seem townish to me, and genuinely frustrated at people taking his jokes too seriously rather than acting, but Account does appear to be acting and if they're not both scum and Accountant is, IMO, very likely to be scum then that makes Char a strong town lean along with Accountant being a strong scum lean, IMO.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

WCS, is your strongest scumread based off of Accountant mentioning the danger of pre-flip associations after a discussion that was heading that way? You think Accountant, AS THE IC, waited to "just realize" that for town credit..? If I'm completely misunderstanding your case, just say so.

He didn't really just realize. He noticed he'd slipped up and then covered it with how he'd "just realized" because he thought that that seemed less risky than continuing with his bad logic. He pretended to "just realize" as a crafty move to cover his mistake.

I'm basing this on how to me it seems that his just realizing wasn't genuine and he was lying to cover a mistake rather than just hoping no one would notice.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

[quote="In
@WCS: when you changed your vote to Transcend i just posted my reads and i had him as townlean and Norsak as scum.
I was considering voting Norsak until you suddenly changed your vote to Transcend without a reason.

Well hindsight is 20/20. At the time if I would have known that I'd voted Norska but at this point I mostly suspect Accountant.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Sorry for messing up quote. I should have previewed that.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Hey. I'm back - sorry, I had a few exams this week and was busy.

I genuinely did not know that people typically vote d1. It's a new concept to me.

Although I just realized that I've fallen into the trap of thinking about who's scum/town if X flips scum/town. This is called pre-flip association, and we should probably avoid engaging in it because it tends to be a house of cards, as well as a waste of time. For example, if I spend too much time talking about Charloux in the event that WCS flips scum, that's worthless if WCS flips town. It would be far better to wait until WCS actually flips, and then talk about who's scum or town based on that.

Instead, let's refocus on Charloux. WCS, you've stated a gut town read on Charloux. Do you think your gut town read outweighs the scummy activity that the rest of us have pointed out?

I don't really believe you "just realized" that even for a second.

Good acting from an experienced player is what I call it. You've moved from a slight town lean to my strongest scum lean.

VOTE: Accountant



The one thing I was most certain about is that Char and Accountant are not scum buddies. It seemed to me like they're perhaps both town talking past each other. After this post quoted above Accountant has moved to the scummiest lean for me and Char has thereby gone from a slight town lean (along with accountant who has now became scum) to a much stronger town lean. They'er not both scum and not only does Char seem townish to me, and genuinely frustrated at people taking his jokes too seriously rather than acting, but Account does appear to be acting and if they're not both scum and Accountant is, IMO, very likely to be scum then that makes Char a strong town lean along with Accountant being a strong scum lean, IMO.

This really seems strange. You're changing your accusations a lot - and this post seems to me like you are trying to defend Charloux and put pressure on Accountant instead. Do you think that Accountant can't make a mistake because he is more experienced? His post seems reasonable to me. If one of the two does turn out to be scum, I'm really leaning towards Char, who only started contributing seriously after multiple people called him out.

Right now I suspect both Charloux and WCSBO.

Far from thinking he can't make a mistake I think he made a mistake and tried to cover it up. Hence claiming to have "just realized" after his logic failed.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@WCS: You claim that I made a mistake by engaging in bad logic and am trying to cover it up. This makes three big assumptions.

1) That town!Accountant would never engage in bad logic.
2) That town!Accountant would never cover up their bad logic.
3) That what I did(stating that preflip associations were a bad idea and asking town to refocus on Charloux) was me attempting to cover up my mistake.

Can you please explain these assumptions?

Oh, they're all alternative possibilities, of course. But it seemed to me to be most plausibly a non-genuine attempt at covering things up. From my gut and impression of it that's what it looked like. It looked like you wriggling out of something.

As I know that you will know, this is a game of incomplete information. There are always alternative possibilities, I just have to choose the one that seems most plausible to me.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Any chance however remote of someone getting on board my slight scumlean of transcend is better than the zero chance of getting on board with Norska.

What makes you think that people have a higher chance of getting on board with your gut Transcend lynch than they have of getting on board with your active lurker Norska lynch?

I was explicitly told that my reason for Norska was unconvincing.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Am I correct in surmising that your read on me can be said to be mostly gut, then?

Yes.

Well, here's a question for you. What am I wriggling out of?

What you were saying before you pretended to just realize that what you were saying was a bad idea.

Unless what you were saying was something you would only say as town.

But I think it's something you would say as either alignment.

And I think when you said you "just realized" that seemed not genuine.

And I think that that was a safer option for you than just hoping that no one would spot that what you'd said beforehand was a bad idea.

If you know what I mean.

Okay exhausted, going to bed now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Transcend warned us of Char claiming PR and then he claimed PR?

I have no idea whether you believe Char's claim or not. I do know that if someone else claims something then one of them would be lying. And

if

Char is telling the truth I do know which setup we're in.

At this point Accountant is seeming more town but he's an experienced player I know it's easy for him to seem town as scum.

I'm asking myself whether my intuition is correct that it would be easier for Accountant to cover up his mistake than let it slide, if I'm right about his just realizing being not genuine.

But at this point I'm far more interested in Char's claim, but I do think that at this point I have no idea whether his claim is genuine or not. I am particularly interested in Transcend prempting the power claim before it happened. Transcend warned us of Char's claiming PR and then it happened... was that a real warning or was it a plan? Are they scum buddies? It could just have been a genuine warning but it does seem suspicious. Maybe I'm wrong about accountant.

I don't know. Maybe none of these people are scum. But like I said I do know which setup we're in

if

Char is telling the truth. And if someone else claims a non-vanilla townie I would know that one of them is lying, I just wouldn't know who.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Why would he sacrifice himself to fish at this point?

Well he looked pretty defeated, he wasn't responding to questions made to him. This could happen to either behavior. Town give up, scum give up. Looks more like scum giving up to me, but hoping to get something out of the lynch by fishing a few roles.

This "well he looked pretty defeated" sounds to me like Transcend defending Char.

I have a very strong intuition now that Transcend pretended to warn us of Char's claiming PR when really it was planned. Looks very much to me like they're scum buddies: They planned it so Transcend would pre-warn us of Char claiming PR after Char acted all frustrated, then Char would claim PR, and then Transcend would use Char's frustration ("well he looked pretty defeated") as an excuse to defend the PR.

That's certainly what it looks like to me now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

To defend the fake PR claim I mean.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

And, if I'm right, I know what setup we're in now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Oh damn I misread Transcend's post. He said it looks more like scum. Hmm. I don't know then.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@WCS: I feel as though I should remind you that scum are not allowed to talk to each other during the day(newbie games have no daychat). So it's impossible for Transcend to have plotted anything out with Charloux.

Seeing as scum would know this, I wonder if this is an actual townslip by WCS.

Isn't there pre-game chat when the role PMs have been sent out but the day hasn't started yet?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I am neither a BP, JK, nor a Doc.

Same here.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I am neither a BP, JK, nor a Doc.

So either you're a VT, scum or Char isn't doctor.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

You can't be a tracker if Char is a doctor.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

No one should claim, we're already had one person claim.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm not a tracker

Then you're a VT or scum.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Char isn't confirmed town. We could be in a setup without a doctor and it could be a fake claim. If we're in a setup with a doctor someone would have counterclaimed him. But we could be in a setup without a doctor. But if we are in a setup without a doctor then I know what setup we're in.

I'm rather interested in Norska claiming what roles he isn't. If he's town and he's telling the truth then

I

know he

must

be a VT.

4.AM here now and I'm exhausted, goodnight folks.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Char isn't confirmed town. We could be in a setup without a doctor and it could be a fake claim. If we're in a setup with a doctor someone would have counterclaimed him. But we could be in a setup without a doctor. But if we are in a setup without a doctor then I know what setup we're in.

I'm rather interested in Norska claiming what roles he isn't. If he's town and he's telling the truth then

I

know he

must

be a VT.

4.AM here now and I'm exhausted, goodnight folks.

If we're in a setup without a doctor, then the JK or BP would have claimed, because that would prove we're in such a setup, which means Charloux claim would have to be false. Since no claims have appeared, I believe Charloux's claim.

Ahhhh. Good point. I know which setup we're in then.

Charloux is confirmed town.

Norksa is either telling the truth about the roles he isn't because he's a VT, or he's scum. He literally can't be anything besides a VT or scum.

To be honest... I don't like the randomly coming out saying all the roles he isn't. If he's a VT why would he do that? I think it's to give himself pseudo-crediblity. I think he's scum.

I think at this point I have to throw my theory about Accountant having "just realized" being not genuine in the trash, Accountant has overall seemed very townie and I'm starting to think there's no way I can justify his covering things up being more beneficial than simply letting things slide.

Also Accountant warned me about what him and Misa saw as rolefishing. I'd say he wouldn't do that if he's scum. But at the same time he's IC so it's his job to warn people of bad tactics and stuff, to teach them.

What kind of bothers me is we have Norska here mentioning all the roles who he isn't and then when I respond to that I'm told

I'm

fishing.

At this point I can see more scum motivations than VT motivation's for Norska claiming all the roles he isn't. This is why I shall vote for him.

VOTE: Norska

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I could just easily interpret Manuel as scum as Tweet as scum. If no one is convinced about my reasoning for Norska I'll go and read the ISOs of Manuel and Tweet.

Just a recommendation:

Folks go read Norska's ISO and then Manuel's and Tweet's. Just a suggestion.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Ahhhh. Good point. I know which setup we're in then.

Slip! If you know there is a doctor, there are 2 possible setups. If you were town, you wouldn't know which one. But scum do!

Incorrect.

I

know there's only one setup we can be in if there's a doctor. The other possible setup isn't an option.

I

know that.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Only I

know that. If I were scum my scumbuddy would know that. I'm not, I'm town, and I'm the only person who knows what setup we're in.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@ Char

You said that only scum would know the exact setup. That isn't true.

@ Accountant

I agree, power roles shouldn't be discussed... but Norska already started it by saying what roles he wasn't and that plus your explanation that Char must indeed be a doctor makes me now know exactly what setup we're in. And char is wrong to tell me that only scum would know. There are two setups with a doctor but I know which one it is because I know which one it can't be.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I also now know that Norska is telling the truth when he says he's not a tracker. But that could just be a convenient way for scum to tell the truth rather than risk getting caught by lying. See, he's not a tracker because he's scum for example. Norska coming out saying all the roles he isn't... I can only see scum motivation for that. Yes I continued the trend but the point is why would Norska give me this info to discuss in the first place? Saying all the roles he isn't, it's very non-committal. He can literally be telling the truth about all those roles he isn't and it can be true by virtue of him being scum. And I know he's telling the truth about not being a tracker because I know Char is a doctor because of Accountant's explanation.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I really recommend everyone ISO Norska because I'm very certain he's scum at this point.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Well if I have information for town how would it help to not disclose it? Yes it can help scum but it can help town too and Norska already gave me the information... why would he do that? Why would he say all the roles he isn't when that can still be true by virtue of him being scum?

How is Manuel scum?

I thought either Manuel or Tweet was scum but I find Tweet being scum much more believable after that post. I think Tweet is scum. I'm far more certain though, that Norska is scum.

I'll switch to voting for Tweet but only if no one is willing to get on board with my voting for Norska.

At this point, since I am so often ignored when I don't ask questions, I may as well ask a question. What does everyone think of my explanation for Norska being scum?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Char should protect me tonight. Be very wary of anyone who tries to lynch me now that I've said this.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Well if that's the case.

VOTE: Tweet

I didn't ask why you think he's scum. I asked how he is scum. Your reasons for him being scum are inferior to his reasons for you being scum, IMO.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Well if that's the case.

VOTE: Tweet

I didn't ask why you think he's scum. I asked how he is scum. Your reasons for him being scum are inferior to his reasons for you being scum, IMO.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Apologies for double post. I thought the first time was just a preview.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Yeah I think probably either Manuel or Tweet is scum and Manuel seems very town to me. All this tunnelling Tweet with questions seems like aggressive scumhunting to me.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I still think Norska is scummiest though. Tweet just asserted that no one will be convinced by my reasons for reading Norska as scum. Is that true?

Because I think coming out saying all the roles he isn't is a pretty scummy thing for Norska to do!

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@ Norska

You didn't not claim. Claiming the roles you're not is claiming something. You just didn't claim any explicit roles.

@ Tweet

Everyone else did not claim all the roles they're not.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@ Norska

You didn't not claim. Claiming the roles you're not is claiming something. You just didn't claim any explicit roles.

@ Tweet

Everyone else did not claim all the roles they're not.

I am not a jailkeeper or bulletproof, obviously.

I don't claim jk or bp either.

I am not JK, BK or Doc

I am neither a BP, JK, nor a Doc.

These are quotes from pages 13-14, all from different people. Guess which one is mine.(Hint: its the one you repeated).

Why are you holding me to a different standard than everyone else?

That isn't everyone else.

I'm not holding you to a different standard to everyone else. I didn't notice anyone else doing the same thing. Why are these people doing this? I think it's very anti-town to do all this. Who started it? I thought it was only you and I joined in because I thought the mistake had already been made but I may as well learn something from the information provided.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@WCS

Do you still consider the possibility of me being town, or are you convinced Manuel is town and I'm scum?

Manuel seems more aggressively scumhunting and townish than you do--especially with his tunnelling you and asking lots of questions--and his reason for you being scum is stronger than your reason for him being scum.

I'm exhausted now, past 3.Am. Goodnight all.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Hi again all.

@WCS Forgive me for this, I have one last question. Do you still think it's important to read Manuel and myself's posts and consider both sides of the argument, or do you not bother to read my posts anymore?

I can't forgive you for what I never resented you for. I don't hold resentment against people over a game <3

Yes I think it's important to read post of your posts and I already am doing so. I still read your posts.

You asked me before whether I still consider the possiiblity of you being town... yes I do. I never suggested otherwise. I've been saying I think it's more likely that Manuel is town and you're scum than the other way around. I said I think he has a better case than you about vice-versa.

You seem awfully interested in my reasons for voting you, and in asking me if I consider the possibility of your townness... to me that's another scummy thing to do. Town would be more interested in continuing their case against someone they consider scum than wanting to be considered town and taking an interest in being voted.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I didn't notice anyone else doing the same thing. Why are these people doing this? I think it's very anti-town to do all this. Who started it? I thought it was only you and I joined in because I thought the mistake had already been made but I may as well learn something from the information provided.

It doesn't give scum extra information. The existence of a BP or JK proves Char to be scum, so if there was one they'd definitely claim and get Char lynched. So anyone who doesn't counterclaim is alteady known to not be BP or JK - saying it explicitly is just to make sure there's no counterclaims that might prove Charloux to be scum.

Oh. Claiming all the roles that you're not doesn't give scum any extra info? None at all? Really? So scum don't know which roles a townie isn't when they say what roles they're not? How does that work?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I didn't notice anyone else doing the same thing. Why are these people doing this? I think it's very anti-town to do all this. Who started it? I thought it was only you and I joined in because I thought the mistake had already been made but I may as well learn something from the information provided.

It doesn't give scum extra information. The existence of a BP or JK proves Char to be scum, so if there was one they'd definitely claim and get Char lynched. So anyone who doesn't counterclaim is alteady known to not be BP or JK - saying it explicitly is just to make sure there's no counterclaims that might prove Charloux to be scum.

Oh. Claiming all the roles that you're not doesn't give scum any extra info? None at all? Really? So scum don't know which roles a townie isn't when they say what roles they're not? How does that work?

No, claiming that you aren't a BP or JK doesn't give scum any extra info, because if you were, you'd have claimed already.

Huh? Why? Isn't it bad for power roles to claim unless they're about to be mislynched?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I think a Misa lynch is better than a Tweet lynch today. I do agree that Manuel and Tweet can't be scum together.

Misa certainly seems to be lurking the most. She's not only barely here but when she's here she's barely contributing.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Because no one scumreads Accountant and Transcend, obviously..
Norsa has enough townreads to not be on the bottom, imo. You can dispute that, but honestly wcs is solidifying Nor's safety for today with his crazy scumread on him.

Norsak is scumread by WCS and Null at best by others.

Also why does it matter to you what reads other players have? You should decide for yourself who is the most scummy.

^^^ This ^^^

So much this. A million times this. I think we need to lynch tweet.

My blue text.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Because if they claim, we immediately know Charloux is scum(since she can't be doctor if there's a BP or JK), and it's worth telling scum who the BP or JK is in exchange for a scum member dying. So if there were, they'd definitely claim to kill Charloux. Since nobody has, that proves that nobody is BP or JK, so we're not letting anything new slip.

So besides BP and JK should no other power roles be claimed?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay then.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Accountant, you say you prefer a Misa lynch to a Tweet lynch but you also say that you don't think both Tweet and Manuel are scum. Do you think neither of them are scum or do you think Manuel is scum? I'm trying to ask myself why I started townreading you at this point. Maybe when you "just realized" it wasn't as fake as it seemed to me because yeah, it seems perhaps there is no way you could have benefited from that as scum. But what makes you town? You seem to be aggressively scumhunting but you're a very experienced players and very experienced players are very good at aggressively seeming to scumhunt when they're scum. Also your helpfulness could be due to you being an IC, so you have to be helpful about some things even if you're scum. Perhaps you are giving information without analysis?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Misa has barely been here. Has she said she's not a BP or JK yet? And is she aware of Char's claim?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

That seemed like a genuine reaction to my towniness rather than you being scum and stating that I'm town when you already know I am, transcend. I'm strongly reading you as town now too.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Accountant, you say you prefer a Misa lynch to a Tweet lynch but you also say that you don't think both Tweet and Manuel are scum. Do you think neither of them are scum or do you think Manuel is scum?

I think there's a significant chance they are both town. I suspect real scum is sitting on the sidelines or lurking in the shadows pointing and laughing.

Perhaps you are giving information without analysis?

I don't think this is an accurate characterization. Haven't I clearly explained all my reads and reasons?

Yeah you probably have. It's hard for me to read very word of everyone's posts. I remember you giving some reasoning at the beginning. If you're town I certainly don't want to unintentionally throw any shade on you. Thankfully you're very town read at the moment anyways. It was probably an unfair representation of you. I asked you if you were giving information without analysis and it looks like the answer is "no". Still, if you were scum, you may have reacted differently so I think it was worth asking.

I'm mostly interested, however, in what you said about the real scum sitting on the sidelines lurking. Your view that Tweet and Manuel are both two townies going at each other while scum watch is very similar to my view that you and Char were two townies going at each other.

In fact... it seems to me that when we're vacilating back and forth between two people and wondering which one is scum... maybe we can't find out which one is scum because neither are?

If that's the case--oh! In that case I remember why I initally read you as town, Accountant. It's when you and Char seemed like two townies going at each other.

Hmm. So these are my town reads now in order from most town to least town:

Charloux
Manuel
Transcend
Accountant
Tweet.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Misa

That seemed like a genuine reaction to my towniness rather than you being scum and stating that I'm town when you already know I am, transcend. I'm strongly reading you as town now too.

Cool!!!!!!!!!

Let's be town buddies 4lyf

and by 4lyf i mean until the scumfucks night kill one of us

I like you. You're nice and fun. This section of my post is fluffy but at least it's within a post related to the game. So in the spirit of fluff and irrelevance, may I ask you if you'd like to be my friend outside of this game, like maybe you'd like to exchange PMs after the game? I love making new friends

I only ask that if you answer me please include your answer within a post related to the game like I have (rather than making a full-on fluff post)

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I by far trust Charloux as most townie of all. I'd say he is, indeed, absolutely confirmed town with his doctor claim. So I trust his opinion on the following question:

Charloux, if there is any player that you consider the most mysterious and the most puzzling to you, who would it be? Which players are most null to you? I would appreciate it so much if you answered both these questions directly. It would be very helpful.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'll be on later to give my thoughts, although I do agree with the pressure on Misa for lurking (I did not post much day one in my scum game).

But before I go:

Okay, that's not true. There'd just have to be a different reason to suspect Norska. Also,

wcs if you're reading this, mention your favourite animal in your next post.

No, WCS, at best you're skim reading my posts. Pretty unfair you weren't considering my side. I am in no way accusing you of being scum for it, I just had a hunch after your reasoning for voting me that you weren't reading much into Manuel's exchange with me.

I am reading your posts. It's not true that I wasn't considering your side: I said that I consider Manuel's case against your better than yours against him. I didn't say your side was worthless or that I wasn't considering at all. In fact I said the exact opposite: you asked me if I considered the possibility that you were town and I said yes I do and I had already considered that possibility. All I've been saying is that I think Manuel's side and case is stronger and you're more likely to be scum than him. You are misrepresenting me here.

I know you're not accusing me of scum for it. I never said you were.

I have told you already that I have been reading both of your cases and I just think Manuel's case is stronger than yours. When the premise is that I am not taking your side over Manuel's the conclusion is not that I'm not considering your side at all. As I have already said, I just think Manuel's case is stronger and you're more likely to be scum than he is. At this point I'm town reading you anyway, you're just the slightest town read to me. I made a post listing my townie reads and changed my vote for Misa.

I'm gonna do some cooking now so if anyone asks me any important questions in the mean time and I'm not around it's because I'm cooking food. Should only be several few minutes: it's microwavable food.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Now I have this worrisome feeling that Transcend is buddying me and joining the Misa wagon because maybe Misa isn't scum. I always find it so hard to figure out who's scum. I don't know how people do it besides an obvious scum slip. I see a so-called reason for someone being scum and I can just as easily think of townish reasons for them doing it.

Has anyone got a really strong reason for anyone being scum? The best I've got is Misa's lurking. Then I get paranoid thoughts about Transcend buddying me but I also get thoughts about Accountant saying that he's been burned before by letting people get away with unexplained reads as if he felt he needed to justify his tunnelling Transcend.

This game is really really hard. I know that I feel Char is strongly town. And I hope to go by a POE to discover who is scum. But besides POE and scum slips it's really really hard to figure stuff out. I always find this. I love this game but it's damn difficult.

So, I shall repeat:

Has anyone got any

really strong reasons

for anyone being scum?

Because I find without a strong reason it's just as easy to find reasons why they're town. Ick.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@ Accountant

All I meant was that you were pushing Transcend recently. I'm not saying you've been tunnelling him for long periods of time.

I don't see how tunnelling someone implies that you are voting them. Yes indeed it's about tunnel vision and not paying attention to anyone else, but scum can do that and interrogate someone without dropping a vote on them. Even town could do that, it would just be very anti-town to do so. I don't see how voting is implied.

My weekly D&D game is starting guys. It lasts for more or less about 2 hours so I'll be back later.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Accountant why have you been so neutral recently?

Who do you think is scum?

I don't know. I will say I think Manuel and Tweet is a TvT right now, with Manuel being stronger town than Tweet. I have a townlean on you as well, so let's PoE you, Manuel, Tweet, WCS and Charloux out.

Just before I go:

I agree with all of this. Doesn't clear you for town though. Although I wouldn't say you're scum either. My intuition is that you seem very townie but my intuition is also that as a very experienced player it may be very easy for you to seem town as scum. Maybe you are saying that all these players are town because you know they are but then you're going to try and get us to lynch someone else you know who is town who is not on that list. I think one way to tell if that's what you're doing is if later on into the game these town reads you listed suddenly become scum reads to you.

But the same could be said about others. I'm starting to think the problem is a lot of reads can apply to a lot of people and not everyone can be scum. In fact most people are town. We know Char is town that's one thing we know.

I really wish someone would address my post regarding how without a very strong reason for someone to be scum it seems it's just as easily to find reasons for those people being town. I find this game so hard. Aside from scum-slips and POE what else do we have? I try to go by my gut but it seems so arbitery. Mafia is such a difficult game.

So again, we know Char is town, does anyone have any

really strong

reasons for someone being scum? The problem with weak reasons is that they're so open to interpretation that just as many people can interpret things the opposite way. I don't want this game to turn into a guessing game. We have incomplete information but not know information.

What are the facts?

We know Char is town.

Do we have strong reasons for believing anyone is scum as opposed to reasons that anybody can disagree with and are rather worthless?

Like I feel my reasons for scumreading people are very often weak, and I'll admit that. But I don't see anyone else's reasons being any stronger. I'm looking for actual scum slips or townie lips that allow us to work out the scum by POE.

All we really know is Char is town. Everyone else disagrees on that and scum will be delighted to see us all fighting with each other.

Town are going to have to start agreeing on things otherwise we're pretty much just in a lottery besides the fact we know Char is not scum.

Okay catch you later the D&D game is starting now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

All I meant was that you were pushing Transcend recently.

By pushing, do you mean I was trying to get him lynched?

No. You were either testing him as a townie to see if he was lynchworthy... you're more interested in getting Misa lynched at the moment. You were trying to make sure the right person is being lynched. Pushing someone doesn't mean you're necessarily pushing for a lynch. Just that you're testing them to see if they're worth one any more than the person you

are

trying to lynch already.

Either that or you're scum and you're casting shade on him, hoping he slips up when you push him and then are preparing to change your vote to him. But only if he's a more worthwhile vote than Misa. I doubt you would be bussing Misa.

Anyways I really have to go now. The D&D game has already started and they'll wonder why I'm so quiet.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Thank you for your answers Accountant. I know you're an IC so there are certain things you have to be honest about... and I also know that you're an experienced player so would put on a very good act of seeming town if scum.

But I still think you're town. I think you're been scumhunting so overtly that that would be a hard act to maintain even as an experienced player.

I agree with you about the POE being a very effective scumhunting tool. But doesn't this make town reads more important than scum reads because scum reads will take care of themselves once we decide who is and isn't town?

Okay I'd say from the gut here are my town reads from most town to least town:

Myself
Charloux
Accountant
Manuel
Transcend
Thatsit
Tweet

Going purely by the gut that would leave Misa and Norska as scum. They are both also my scum reads.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Alternatively if I'm wrong about Norska I'd say Misa and thatsit are scum.

It's Thatsit's posts who I am least familiar with. I'll go ISO Thatsit now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay I've ISOed Thatsit.

I think thatsit is faking noob town.

I think I was wrong about Norska. I'd say Misa and thatsit are scum. I'm happy to vote for either of them.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Lurking is a scummy thing to do. Town don't lurk. Town can be inactive, but town don't lurk.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay I'm very certain you're scum now. I never said anything about PRs being lurkers at all.

And the snarky attitude to throw shade on me as if I'm pretending not to say something that I

actually never said

.

I'm glad my vote is on you.

For emphasis:

VOTE: Misa

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

(It's okay. And I regret using the word "snarky"... I just couldn't think of a nicer word to use to describe the same thing. Perhaps that word was a little harsh of me but I didn't know how else to describe it.

We can play Mafia without being rude and I'm not here to hurt anyone's feelings. And don't worry you didn't upset me. If you could think of a word that means "snarky" that has a less negative connotation that would be awesome. I think it is perfectly possible to play this game skillfully without using words like that to describe each other. I just couldn't think of another word. Sorry.

Anyways, with that out of the way and back to the game: )

I fully read you as scum for reasons given. If you are town I'd say Norska and That's it are scum. I think the scum is either--in order of most likely to least likely--Misa and Thatsit, Misa and Norska, or Thatsit and Norska.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

(P.S. I have a really terrible memory too, I'm sorry if I was a little harsh. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings).

I really think That's it, Norska and Misa are the most likely scum suspects. I think one of them is town and the other two are scum.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Charloux, if there is any player that you consider the most mysterious and the most puzzling to you, who would it be?

That would be you. I seriously can't comprehend what is going on in your head when you make you posts. I haven't seen such chaos in awhile.

Which players are most null to you?

Thatsit.

There are 3 things i am certain about right now
1)Accountant and Transcend are town. I think Manuel is town as well, but i'm not too confident.
2)Both scum are likely in the Norska, Tweet, thatsit, WCSBO, Misa. WCSBO can be ignored, because he will die N2 if he is town.
3)Transcend should be treated as an insane cop.

Thank you very much for your answers. I'm dead either night 1, dead night 2 or I'm lynched day 2.

What is your case for Accountant being town? What do you think of my point of him being an experienced enough player that he can seem super town and like he's scumhunting people even if he's not really doing that? What do you think of his wanting to change from Tweet to Misa and then me going along with it? What do you think of the part I changed to blue text within what he said here:

Manuel v. Tweet is TvT.

Manuel is town because I think scum!Manuel would sit on a lurker rather than push you. You're town for the same reasons Transcend is - you've been making consistently solid posts and your thought process is clear and I think oriented towards trying to identify and lynch scum. While it's not to say that scum can't make solid posts, I think it's much harder for scum to fake that kind of mindset.

Scum trying to look town usually make posts that look good on the surface but that don't contribute much to actual scumhunting, but I didn't get the impression at your posts are shallow.

Furthermore, the easy way in which everyone else seems to be letting you two fight or focusing on your fight seems to me to be a sign of either apathy or scum who is more than happy to let two town members go at each other tooth and nail. In particular I think townies would try to push their own scumreads rather than try to make the decision into a false dichotomy of Manuel vs Tweet. This is why Misa's lack of scumreads is very concerning to me - I think she doesn't have any so she can go "well, I don't have anyone to push, so I'll just pick between Manuel and Tweet".

?

If I'm right about him being experienced enough to act like he is scumhunting when he isn't... don't you think this is a very conveinent way to cover his own doing that? And perhaps Misa's apparent lurking is more anti-town than scum whereas Accountant is too good of a player to seem anti-town even if he's scum?

If

we're wrong about Accountant being town and he's scum instead... do you think that Tweet might be his scumbuddy and that's why he tried to move us away from Tweet when Manuel and Tweet were going at each other? What about him saying that they were two townies going at each other when I'd said the same thing about him and you going at each other earlier? Do you think he used my idea to say the same thing about Tweet and Manuel... to turn us away from Tweet who is his scumbuddy.

How sure are you that Accountant is non-scummy rather than non-anti town? How sure are you that his behavior is that of a townie rather than an experienced player playing as scum who also has to be helpful as an IC?

Overall perhaps Accountant is a townie just scumhunting aggressively and perhaps even though he's a very experienced player he'd be less aggressive as scum.... but I will ask you this:

If

you're wrong about Accountant's alignment and he's actually scum... what do you think of my theory that Tweet is scum

if

Accountant is?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Hi guys. I think Transcend and Tweet are scum. Tweet is too quick to change to voting for Accountant after myself and Manuel said they were scumreading him and Transcend appears to be standing back and being far too non-committal to be townie.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

UNVOTE:

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

VOTE: Tweet

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Transcend is still continuing to throw shade on Misa when she's transparently town now and Tweet said she'd been scumreading Accountant for ages but only changed to voting for him after I started wondering if he was scum and Manuel expressed similar stuff.... and after she realized Misa wasn't an option anymore.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

So these are all my reasons for Transcend and Tweet being scum.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm laying off the criticism of other people's reads.

I'm not actually trying to convince anyone who disagrees with me of my this because it's

a well known

, sort of, psychological fact that if you heavily criticize a view that other people hold they just hold it

even stronger.

Scum may pretend to be convinced by me though.

Anyway, I'm exhausted, past 4.AM.

Goodnight.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm just saying what I think is

true

ni night.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Ok I was wrong about Transcend. The way he unvoted Misa. If she's town he wouldn't unvote her like that... if she's scum he wouldn't have changed his mind and voted her again not long afterwards.

Transcend and Charloux are town.

I think we're right about Misa being one of the scum. Transcend is right that she does still seem to be playing cautiously.

Is Misa still at L-1?

Both Tweet and Manuel have been willing to change to accountant. Have Tweet and Manuel stopped going at each other? Because if so that's odd. Maybe I was wrong that they can't both be scum...?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Manuel seems really clearly town though.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Thatsit and Misa perhaps are scum. They both seem to be playing the most cautiously.

Accountant is right that Misa isn't cleared as town. She could have just lied about being a vanilla townie and she panicked about almost getting lynched so gave a bunch of reads. The way Transcend unvoted her but then voted back and really seemed to want to get the decision right regarding lynching her makes him clearly town to me now along with Charloux.

Intent to hammer Misa if she's still at L-1

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@Tweet: I am willing to push Accountant with you.
VOTE: Accountant

????

Really odd how you and Tweet are pushing accountant when you've been at each other's throats. I've been reading you as very clearly town, Manuel, but this is just odd.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I mean Accountant could be scum but to suddenly be so willing to lynch him

with

Tweet instead of lynching Tweet.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Only sure myself, Char and Transcend are town atm.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Shouldn't it be an NAI post then, by your own logic? You'd be thinking "I can't tell if Accountant is just being an IC or trying to further their win condition, so I guess this post is useless for determining their alignment". In that case, isn't it weird to bring this post up as a reason to scumread me?

Very true. But of course even this post is also NAI. Hehe.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I'm gonna read the posts since Misa claimed VT over and over to try and get to the truth of this.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Damn. I really really like Misa's readlist too much to hammer her in a million years now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: That's It

Town:

Char, Transcend, Misa.

I read Misa's post fully rather than skimming it. Didn't' see her read list before. I agree with it so much. It all seems to fit. And I agree that scum are damn good which is why it's so hard to figure out who they are. Although for this reason I'd swap Manuel and Accountant around in her read list. I think scum are That's It and Accountant.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Well I gotta go with Accountant guys at this point.

I just noticed there's already 3 votes on him.

UNVOTE: That's It

VOTE: Accountant

Accountant is at L-1

Yeah I'd say Misa's read list is mostly accurate but I don't find Manuel scummy and I think based on her "Scum is pretty damn good" thing... I'd say Accountant makes the most sense to be Scum. But also perhaps herself!

Transcend and Char are definitely town.

I do think that Misa's post makes more sense as a genuine townie read list that got Accountant and Manuel the wrong way around and...

Wait... But the thing is. I think Misa is a good enough player to know that Manuel is rather clearly town.

I think you're right that perhaps Misa is trying to get us to lynch the inactive n00b, that's it.

Maybe Scum are pretty down good but we're also reading them...

correctly

. I think perhaps the "Scum is pretty damn good" thing is a double bluff. I don't understand why Accountant is so high on Misa's read list and Manuel so low. Manuel's placing and Accountant's placing is all I was confused about but now I'm thinking voting That's it makes no sense. So I'm thinking maybe she swapped things around on purpose. Manuel really doesn't make sense as being so scummy... nor does Accountant make sense as being so townie if "scum is pretty damn good"

And that's it does just seem like perhaps a newbie lynch bait.

But I am concerned that both Manuel and Tweet are both going after Accountant... that's just damn weird.

Ick. I don't know. I say we lynch Misa or Accountant. I'd say if one of them is town then Tweet is probably the other scum. I doubt they're both town!

I recommend when it comes to Misa or Accountant... we lynch whoever we'd learn the most from if they're mislynched.

Hopefully Misa or Accountant is scum and we lynch one of them... but if we mislynch one of them who would we learn the most from? Which is the least bad mislynch?

I basically think that's how we decide which one to lynch. I'm sure one of them are Scum.

I think Misa saying scum is pretty damn good, is something we might think she would never say if it meant her and accountant... but I think maybe scum

is

her and accountant. And they're hoping we don't lynch one of them but it looks like one of them is going to get lynched.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

When Tweet asked "Who will go here?" regarding Accountant... could she have been bussing?

I think perhaps we're confused because

some

bussing is going on.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

UNVOTE: Accountant[/vote]

Okay Charloux is right Accountant is definitely town.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

UNVOTE: Accountant

Sorry for messing up tags.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Charloux, Transcend and Accountant are definitely town.

Accountant... what do you make of Transcend unvoting Misa when she was close to being lynched and then changed his mind shortly afterwards? To me that behavior only makes sense if Transcend is town.

If Transcend were scum and Misa is scum then Transcend would have unvoted her but he certainly wouldn't have voted her again shortly afterwards.

If Transcend were scum and Misa is town then he wouldn't have unvoted her.

^^^ Although I'm less sure about that one ^^^

If his unvoting her was premeditated and he was planning to vote her back knowing she's town... then he could be scum.

Ick.

This means if Misa is scum then we know Transcend is town though!

Intent to hammer Misa

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Who

Has got complaints about me hammering Misa? Who is worried? It's hard to get a correct lynch on day one but I think a lot of us have reasons to believe she's scum.

I also think if she's scum it clears Transcend as town for reasons given.

I'm absolutely willing to Hammer Misa.

I repeat

Intent to hammer Misa

Accountant is absolutely right that regardless of Misa not necessarily being scum, she's certainly not town. Anyone wanting to defend her too hard is a little suspicious. At one point I briefly thought her VT claim and read list looked townie but it's by no means clear. Most of the list seemed correct to me but I wanted to swap a couple around,

I think perhaps Misa is pulling our leg and "scum is pretty damn good" is referring to herself.

I repeat:

Intent to hammer misa

Who is gonna complain about that?

Who is okay with me hammering her?

If Misa is scum then Transcend is definitely town.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Maybe I was wrong about Manuel. Just during his battle against Tweet he seemed by far the most town to me. The way he was interograting Tweet aggressively.

So are you reading Tweet as town.. accountant?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Now I feel scummy towards you again Accountant, lol.

I just imagine you're trying to get us to mislynch Misa and you're unclear on whether you're reading Tweet as town.

Accountant, I am so confused right now.... do you think it's

possible

that Tweet and Manuel are scum...

together

?

What happened to them going at each other? They suddenly seem like besties lol.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@WCSBO: What is wrong with you?! In 2 pages you Went from scumreading Misa to townreading him and back to scumreading him. And you brought Accountant to L-1 even though there is no case on him. And now you are townreading him. Like wtf?

I'm trying to decide who's scum.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Is Norska the most null to you?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Do you mean Norska is scummy if she isn't or do you mean Norska is most null to you if she isn't?

Before I hammer, I need to know who is the most null player to you, Char.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

At this point. Is it still That's It is most null to you, Char?

Protect the right person tonight or we won't learn as much lol.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

What's PE and PEPE?

No protection for me? That's a bad idea O_o

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

o_O

Kind of pointless me asking who is most null to you if you don't protect me, Char.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

VOTE: Misa

Misa is hammered.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

you're unclear on whether you're reading Tweet as town.

You asked me if I was reading Tweet as town. I said "yes". I'm not sure how you can be more clear than that.

You ninja'd me there. I didn't see that post of yours until I had posted.

@ Char... it's not true that it's pointless asking for your null reads. Who you're unsure about is who I need to know about. Pointless learning more about people you are already sure are scum or town.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

ehhhh on my home website scum usually fish out prs when under suspicion so that's kinday why

i really don't know what misa is flipping, expecting green but hope for red yannoe?

god i've been such a wuss this game

What website do you normally play Mafia on?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@ Char

Huh?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

I haven't claimed.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Nope, she's hammered. And now that makes me think you and her are scum lol.