Newbie 1761: Welcome to Mafia (Game Over)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Ooh. We have a detective already. Glad to be working with you sir.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

What;s RVS?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Oh well I dunno.

Vote Deimos27

. He's trying to egg people into rando'ing

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I do indeed think it is wrong. Look, voting on D1 is wonderful for pressuring scum but it's just so RANDOM. I mean, on D1 we all know that the town outnumbers the mafia by quite a large margin. There is just such a small change that a scum is voted that it's ALMOST, I say almost a gaurunteed town loss. Why should we vote away fellow townies? There's just such a small chance of scum lynching that it isn't even worth it. I'd go as far as to saying random on D1 is pro-scum. Therefore my vote stays as only scum would want to random knowing that it is súper unlikely to be hit, since town always starts with a huge majority.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I gotta go to bed now guys. Cya

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

1) Yes you are correct.
2) I was planning to, just not with my first post.
3) I vote Deimos because while I hate random, he seems to promote it. While I don't deny it's good for pressuring, random voting leads to a random bandwagon like with Clemency. Like I stated before random lynching and by extensión voting seem very scummy to me.

All in all, I didn't plan to vote on Dei, he just seemed kinda suspicion on the logic.
(P.S. Good morning.)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I do indeed think it is wrong. Look, voting on D1 is wonderful for pressuring scum but it's just so RANDOM. I mean, on D1 we all know that the town outnumbers the mafia by quite a large margin. There is just such a small change that a scum is voted that it's ALMOST, I say almost a gaurunteed town loss. Why should we vote away fellow townies? There's just such a small chance of scum lynching that it isn't even worth it. I'd go as far as to saying random on D1 is pro-scum.

Something to consider in general with mafia is that a vote is not a lynch. You can change your vote anytime you want. So, as town you can vote another town player over the course of the game and have it be worth it, if you gain something positive in return. Votes are your biggest tool in terms of pressure. Even just a little bit of pressure on someone during the early game for simple reasoning can create something to talk about.

If we were rolling a die with numbers 1-9 on it to decide who we were all going to lynch today, you would be right that our odds aren't very good, but who you vote now isn't who you have to vote for the rest of the day.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense. I didn't say you couldn't do it, I'm saying I don't like it. Doesn't have to affect you ya know?

Therefore my vote stays as only scum would want to random knowing that it is súper unlikely to be hit, since town always starts with a huge majority.

Well, ~four-ish people voted randomly to open the game.
Can you talk about why Deicon was more likely to be scum there than myself, Mort or algebra?
Can you also talk about what your experience previous to this game is with mafia?

1) Deicon is more scummy because while I don't like RVS, I accept you guys do it. He went in like, aren't you gonna vote? You need to vote now. I wasn't going to vote with the first post I made. I was planning on no lynching and then voting only if we have a good strong lead. He tried to forcé a random.
2) I have played many a game irl and even some on epicmafia. I usually employ the exact same strategy and it works pretty well.

1)What kind of behaviour do you deem the scummiest (lurk/filler/whatever)?
2)What kind of behaviour would you judge as Townie ?
3)(more off-topic) What kind of roles do you think impact the game the most?

1) Trying to prod into lynching wrong.
2) Asking good questions.
3) Umm... I dunno.

Quote tags fixed. (Equinox)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I had just woken up before I saw the other two pages. Was replying to Mort. Look Dei, I don't like RVS but honestly? Looking at it now you don't seem bad.

Unvote

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I just don't approve of your approach to toning. That ok?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Towning* No Deimos. It's fine Equinox.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Ok I just finally got home. Why is this important? Well honestly as people have said before, my post was kinda rushed. When I unvoted Deimos I had about two minutes to write it and I regretted posting it because I realize I didn't explain enough. Karldilkton allow me to explain. When Deimos started getting in my face about RVS I got kinda frusterated. I have the right to not vote no? I ended up getting frusterated and voted Deimos out of anger because to me it seemed really scummy to force somebody to vote. When people started questioning I held (and still do) hold my beliefs and tried to explain. That is, apparently scummy because I have an opinion. The next morning I realized that Deimos was playing town how he believed was correct. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I didn't approve of his methods. Now, what people seem to be taking wrong is that I never said YOU couldn't RVS. I just don't think it is right. Just like other people think it is a good strategy I don't. I went to unvote Deimos and I realize I explained very poorly. Forgive me for the confusion. I also realized that voting Deimos went against my own no RVS, because there's no proof in that. I will continue to keep an eye on him but I won't keep an unecessary vote on him.

On the topic of Cheetory I feel like he's trying to make the game kinda fun and silly between his seriousness. Likely he's trying to make us have fun for our first ever game (at least for me it is) while doing this seriously. As for his townlean? I don't know why he's keeping his cards close, but it could be because he wants to make sure he's right.

algebra: I am a newb. To the game. I don't appreciate being called a newb but it's your read.

Before anybody else says something: I RESPECT your opinions and choices, I just don't agree with them sometimes. Please respect that.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Mort you say I contradicted myself. I did not. Following my logic would I not have believed Dei was kinda scummy for advocating what I'm against? What would be scummy is not voting Deimos even though I find RVS scummy. Hypocritical no? I'm starting to see where you're coming from and maybe I'll rethink my theory. You're kinda making sense I guess. I still however strongly believe that is scummy. (I also never said Dei was off the hook)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I'm trying. Now let's move on from this shall we? People just keep bombarding me with the exact same stuff I answered multiple posts ago.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Ok lots of answers.

@MortField I felt (feel) like when I voted up Deimos that he was kinda scummy because statistics suggest that RVS is pro scum. As I realize now, I mistook RVS for Random Lynching. ;O Big difference. Also Xnadroj before you start building a huge case on this (honestly it's like you're so convinced I'm scum you won't listen to anything anybody says much less me) At the start of the game I though RVS = RL. I now get that that is not the case, and RVS =/= RL. I was suspicious at Deimos to try to force me to vote, and therefore random vote, into a random lynch. When I say angry and frustrated I mean I don't look or sound angry, I'm just rather frustrated. I'm also trying to stop thinking about RVS and move on, but when I do I'm immediately scumread by Mr. Xnad. #141 Shows I'm not the only one. And Mort, I want to try to scumhunt but I'm being accused a lot and I feel the need to defend myself.

@XnadrojX Sir, what is your problem with me? I can't get in one word without you immediately jumping in and claiming scum. I bet this'll also sound scummy to you no? I did not say RVS was scummy, I said forcing others to vote is. (In my own eyes) When I say Deimos isn't off the hook I mean I'm keeping an eye on him but there is no need to vote him up yet. I say the way he plays town, because scum can easily act town. It's not that far fetched is it? I'm going to keep watching him to see if he really is scum. Also I might go on a limb and say the lengths you go to accuse me are really just odd. I'm sure you'll dismiss this entire post (like all the others) and continue in your blind crusade. I don't trust that. Who continually crusades even though there is proof other-wise? And where in the world do I use fallacious arguments? When I voted Deimos I was kinda really frustrated and when I woke up I kinda realized it was idiotic to vote somebody based not only on the slight scumtell I see from that but also my anger. I realized it is not enough proof and that I was being dumb. I still however will keep an eye on him in case he really is scum. Also why do you defend him to the death? Is he that important? You only scum read me after I started arguing with Deimos. Why? Are you two scum together?

@Deimos27 Answers:
1) I am 13 years old and am in the Eighth Grade. (Yes my birthday already passed)
2) Depends. Really quiet and just silent all around or talking and laughing. They also say I can be pretty cold sometimes. Especially when I'm angry. I usually don't use all around scream caps locks. It's the intention behind each word.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

You know what strikes me odd is the fact Xnad hasn't posted since my post and the slight accusation. He just went totally quiet and lurking all of a sudden. Now you could say this is because he had questions but when I countered he just went dead. Honestly this is weird since usually by the time I've come home from school and stuff he's posted several times over. Now he's silent.

I don't trust this silence, as up until he was accused he was contributing, or as Mort put it, flapping his wings and squacking. Yet the second this is countered, he's gone. Now I don't know about you guys but this is mighty sus for me.

Vote XnadrojX

until proven wrong.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

If he does indeed post and explain I will likely unvote. The thing is when he attacked me he attacked a what I feel is a strawman of one or two ambiguous sentences that he based his WHOLE CASE on. He also accused me of weak and fallacious arguements which he never cared to elaborate on, which would be Pro town if he told us. He also seems to be late with his posting time when he's usually rather punctual about it. Now, I feel our time zones are different and I get it but still, isn't it kinda convenient he dissapears right when it starts to get kinda ugly? If he don't post and give a good reason to both answer my post and why he wasn't here my vote is staying.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

@MortField I feel like his cherry picking is kinda scumlean for me. I mean why would a town be looking at only 1 or 2 statements in an arguement? He refused to even read the rest of my post and just stick with stuff that give him a "case". His entire "case" is basically taking a few words from my post and making it favor him. I don't know if that's strawmanning but it sure is somewhere close. Also why would a town pick and choose? A town CAN'T just be picky. Like I said before he just says what conveniences. His convictión that I'm scum is quite suspicion too. He knows I'm not scum and will use the randomest of stuff to accused and try to lynch a town. Now I can see somebody picking through for clues but refusing to acknowledge the rest of the post and only the parts he seems "scummy"? That's scum tricking ya.

I am not unvoting but if we Xnad lynch and he flips scum I'm betting on a Deimos/Xnad partnership.
Why? He defends that man to the death. I had no issues with him until I stated arguing with Deimos. He just jumped in and accused me willy-nilly. No basis. And when I explained he refused to acknowledge my explanación and ran away with his two statements.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Mort are you currently suggesting that you think Deimos is scum? I'm just wondering.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I asked Mort because I want to know if you're pushing for a Deimos wagon because it seems like it. On a totally random side note for some reason you strikes me like your role is towny cop, whether it be flavor or not I dunno yet or why I feel this way. xD (Please don't scumread this it's just a weird inkling I have that won't go away and I decided to voice it. If you want you don't have to answer that part.)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Gosh dang it. Should we take clem off L1 now that he just got replace? Anyways Mort I risked it because I really do believe your town and I was just mentioning vibes.
Deimos does indeed bring up a good point however, so I'm gonna ask a bit. Sorry but rather safe than sorry.
1. Do you scumlean anyone other than clem or Dei?
2. You use a mass of posts. Why do you not condense them? Or is it because you post as you go?
3. What scumteams do you think would be in game? And why?
4. Do you think time is relative to one's perspective? (As in a guy in a car percieves time differently than a guy on the sidewalk(sounds random but this is important))

Sorry if this sounds rushed, just got home and need to shower plus being prodded.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Aye. Agrede.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I do.

Mort I asked the time thing because well, I enjoy asking and conversing things like that but now that you mentión it, o.o

I didn't unvote because his explanation didn't really taste right... I might unvote if he has more proof. Also I interpreted Ángela posts as he was a brand newb last time so he isn't anymore.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Mort; when I say now that you mention I was referring to your recency bias. In my opinion your bias isn't a weakness, much of mafiascum revolves around it. Just remember to check earlier logs to not be too recent. Ok so when I say it tasted weird, I meant Xnad just all went up and said his entire game before that was totally wrong, bu what I found weird was how much effort he put into it but the second stuff got real he backpedaled. To top it off he unvoted and I was nervous about it because it could be a backpedal, but I also was scared to look like an OMGUS voter. When I was thinking about it, he kinda had the same reasoning I did and I can't blame him for that can I? Sometimes, you really just do change your mind. I'd also like to mention that I post sometimes without superthinking about something. (P.S. angela was angel. My spellcheck did that and I didn't catch it. xD)

For the new guys: The quick tl'dr

We start RVS and then me and deimos get in a big fight over it. Xnadroj jumps immediately to his defense while Mort continualy shoots him down. Algebra gives a read and Cheeetory states he has a townlean. I defend myself for a bit before we move on and question Clemency (your replacee JR). We then begin to accuse Deimos and Xnad of a scumteam and Mort gives a huge arguement that Deimos is scum. Cheetory says his thoughts of previous interactions and alegebra (I think) is suspicious of him and clem scumteam. Chat stagnates for abit and then dei accuses Mort of being scum, who is the town we never had. Xnad seemed less scummy so we wouldn't vote him. Clemency depending if we lynch deimos will be leaning depending on what he flips. I ask mort some questions and he responds, as well as everyone finding he has a recency bias. Currently JR you're at L-1 because of how Clem acted.

tl;dr tl;dr
we talked and then argued. currently JR is L-1 and deimos is second in line for being scum.

Unvote Xnadroj

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Currently? I'm not sure. I was leaning for clem and deimos but now that clemency is gone...

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Ikr? Yeah the reason I say suspicion went down was because for all we know JR is town and clem was bad at that.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I honestly gotta go with Mort. I hate voting up an V/LA guy but he does seem super scummy, especially in the beginning.

I still don't like Xnad but

@Algebra

you refuse to answer answers straight. You reply to that thing beside the question. It makes me suspicious but Deimos seems to be the scummier of the two.
Therefore:

Vote: Deimos

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Why did Mort replace out?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Deimos PP should be our main focuses today.

Um....why?

Deimos because he was the scummiest D1 and mort's suspicion, and PP because he quickvoted cop. (I doubt he knew Xnad was cop regardless)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Algebra, we had FIVE HOURS. That's not nearly enough to set up a brand spanking new case and act on it. I agree that quicklynching is bad but still... how was he supposed to know that Xnadroj was cop? He was really scummy throughout most of the game, doesn't make sense not to vote him. Although I'm still confused as to what happened to your wagon. Honestly? Deimos is still the scummiest for me but you're getting closer.

PEdit: I believe you penguin. 2 things though.
1. What makes you think I'm scummy?
2. What soft claim saved him? Claiming power role? (Side note why DIDN'T he die?)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Oh. I don't post every time I come online, many times I come on to see if someone posted on the thread or just to read and think it over. I don't wanna just log in read something at face-value then post. I like to examine posts and search for scummy behavior. Also remember that Arc flipped vanilla townie so we're likely in B. The question is though, are we 1, 2, or 3? (3 is unlikely but since we've had both a cop flip and a vanilla flip it would be covered by a B... but if it is 3 or 1 algebra is lying.)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Penguin I TRY to post. I'm 13 man. Between school and sports I usually check. And how do I luckily post? I post my opinión, forgive me.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I am in 8th grade I think I mentioned that before...
I live in Central US and our school is from 7:45-3:00 p.m.
I usually post after 4-5.
Happy?

Also my reads from towny to scum

TOWN
SensFan
Nachommoma
PenguinPower
Hellfire Missile
Algebra
Deimos27
SCUM

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Yes, I've been cooperating with town lately and sorting the game out.

You weren't cooperating before?

Also, Sensfan I say he was scummiest evidenced by his action later d1, as well as mort having a strong case on him as well.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Vote: algebra

Why vote him? (Just curious)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

It's not a solid plan. On the other hand I'm more up fir an algebra lynch just by how he's been acting as of late. I also find his not dying kinda scummy. We'll see.

As for the PP/Alg team, I'm not really seeing it. Care to at least give us a hint sens?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

@Zar

What's up with that long period of inactivity?

Um... I posted yesterday didn't I? Also you didn't answer my question.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I am currently super busy but if we put Algebra up to L-1 again...

Intent to hammer.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

V/LA till the 26th

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

True that, Deimos is suspicious af. I'll withdraw my vote a little longer, alright?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Why would we lose? Also algebra you seem to be trying to push the blame on anybody you can. Why?

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

All right this is gonna be a doozy of a post.

First off;

Hardclaim; Vanilla Townie

Alright my current list of reads (from towniest to least)'

SensFan: He has been kinda iffy but honestly? He has reacted rather townish to alot of things in my opinion as well as the way Mort was driving well, I feel this slot is almost certainly town, and unless heavy proof otherwise in my opinion, he is town. Although I might like to add I noticed a slight decrease in posting but that may just be his style.

Nachomomma8: Again his current argument with PP is kinda feeling weird but he seems to be town to me, the way he played earlier. Much analysis and long posts but why, have you begun to shortpost?

PenguinPower: I believe that his quickhammer on the cop was a complete accident, we didn't know he was cop. Also, Xnad was very scum-like in his gameplay, in my opinion. In the past two days PP has been acting very townish but he's still kinda shortposting.

CloudKicker: You have been kinda contributing but alot of it is short and kinda fluffy. Some of your points don't make sense to me and have been kinda all over the place. I also was rather suspicious of Deimos whom you replaced in for. Also, if you know who scum is, please do tell.

Algebra: What can I say? You start the game seeming conf town to me but then D1 you softclaimed and we lynched the cop. D2 You then had to hardclaim doc no matter what. Your posting seemed a lot less town, and you zoomed in on PP and only PP. D3 It appears nobody died so unless you saved somebody the mafia didn't kill. You say you and Nacho must be conf town and when people start breaking that up, you sort of start to flail. You say first Zar is rb'er! Then it becomes apparent that no, Cloud must be it! So who do you suspect of roleblocker and you are completely certain we have rb'er ne? It is totally possible mafia didn't kill to save your butt, I'm not saying you didn't save somebody I'm saying it's possible. Also you realize you caused a mass of shortposting?

All my reads are here and I support them with whats been said.

Tl;Dr

I am vanilla townie and my list is like this

Town:
Sensfan
Nachomomma8
PenguinPower
Cloudkicker
Algebra
Scum:

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I do believe our best chance of winning is to no lynch. Since We're in MyLo one mislynch and we lose. Honestly it seems smarter to narrow it down tomorrow. Like has been stated previously scum have more information than us so we need as much as possible. I say NL.

@CloudKicker

Why vote me?

VOTE: No lynch

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

Hold it, what question?