Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[Toto]

VOTE: Arrowscum

Scummy name

[Toto]

VOTE: Arrowscum

Scummy name

Coming from someone with a scumy avatar.

I'm Toto, Dorothy's dog. I have the least scummy avatar now. Remove your vote immediately!

[Toto]

I can smell the bloodlust in you.

[Toto]

All newbie games have 2 scum. You can read the possible set ups in 2

[Toto]

(unofficial vote count - takes 5 to lynch)

Toto (2)

: mlmooney89, Elhabe21

Arrowscum (1)

: Toto

mlmooney89 (1)

: krylea

Shannon (1)

: Titus

Titus (1)

: fruitsman

[Toto]

What do you think about my auto-generated vote post links?

[Toto]

I have thoughts.

[Toto]

Don't have anything to say yet.

[Toto]

VOTE: krylea

[Toto]

Titus, are you scum? you have to tell the truth because you are the IC.

[Toto]

No scum reads yet. Probably next new person to post is scum. I'm going to vote there.

[Toto]

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. -- Toto

VOTE: Arrow

[Toto]

Thats L-1?

One more vote and we have mislynch.

[Toto]

Plus I said the vote links are auto generated. Which means I put 0 effort into it. Just testing out my lil script.

And Im not trying to look town. Everyone that doesn't get that is either scum or doesn't understand sarcasm.

[Toto]

And holy shit you are not a newbie??

Lmao

VOTE: shannon

Now explain that thing were mooney is trying hard to be town but from a town perspective. Pretty awesome read.

[Toto]

Do you think I should claim this early Titus?

[Toto]

I've played mafia on atheistforums.org so I know the general game but this is my first one here. Should be fun to see the differences.

VOTE: Toto

Trying too hard.

Shannon when you are back explain how you read this guy as:

Like it's newbie Fear of Missing Out (or fear of being scum read) for not doing the popular thing.

Take your time.

[Toto]

Well. This kind of sucks. I'm a Vanilla Townie.

I was attracting attention to myself to see if I could catch some opportunistic scum. Pretty confident we got one in Shannon, though. That is a 100% BS town read she made there.

[Toto]

Never been to Africa... Whats the point of this question?

Also your explanation of your mooney read doesn't make sense. He was not agreeing with anyone and he said a few times he has experience offsite so why would you read him as a nervous newbie trying to blend in?

One hard part of being mafia is faking the fact that you don't know who is town and who is mafia. So your reads end up looking fake, like yours.

[Toto]

Nice OMGUS.

Do you find his read genuine then?

[Toto]

I'm a girl.

I'm sorry.

I am a girl

I'm sorry

[Toto]

Also, the Africa thing - I assume you're familiar with the song? And with the general concept of sometimes making lighthearted comments, call them 'jokes', in a thread? For no reason other than to make the game a bit friendlier and more amusing to play?

I guess the joke is on me then. Still don't buy your read.

[Toto]

UNVOTE: Shannon

@Creature:

I'm going to be VL/A tomorrow and the weekend until Tuesday.

I don't want to leave when I'm the primary suspect because I feel that will detract further investigations. So if you have questions fire away now.

[Toto]

I think my wagon should be very informative for town. Pretty sure at least one scum jumped in there.

[Toto]

Im pretty sure Im town and therefore the wagon is quite informative to me. You can also take a leap of faith and assume Im town while holding your breath for a few seconds and try to draw some conclusions based on that. It is not very hard

I would like to hear Shannons opinion on arrow. Im very curious about that.

[Toto]

Toto can you give us your read list?
What would you like to have seen happen by the time you have came back?

I think you are town.

If we include arrow that leaves {arrow, shannon, mandy, elhabe, krylea}

I figure out who is scum from those. Or figure out who is town and lynch the remaining one.

P-edit you may want to start with krylea

[Toto]

*you need to figure out...

[Toto]

Yeah I have mixed feelings about her. Her behavior is very townie looking. my main problem with Krylea is that she has a little too much confidence and is trying to become the voice of town a little too hard.

[Toto]

After ISOing her I think you may be right about Krylea. From the others I would rank them as such:

Town

Elhabe

Mandy


Arrow / Shannon

Scum

Can't decide who is scummier between those two.

[Toto]

Ill post later today.

[Toto]

Also, D1 discussions lead to lot of confusion. I prefer staying out of them unless I find something very scummy on D1.

Krylea is trying to distract us, and that is working. Come on people, we need her out of the way.

This means you find Krylea very scummy.

[Toto]

Shannon, who is scum and why?

[Toto]

Ok. Yeah Krylea seems a bit pushy. Why are you voting Elhabe and not Krylea though?

[Toto]

Last reads. Where do you think I went wrong reading you?

I'm reading this over and over because I have a weird feeling about this, and I think I finally get why.

Why would you ask someone how you misread them at this particular moment when you are about to learn their alignment? how does that help you find scum or town from the remaining players depending on her flip?

VOTE: Titus

[Toto]

But why do you care about more than knowing who she thinks is town or scum? Seems like a waste of precious time during twilight. You can always ask her after the game.

[Toto]

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

But it seems you are asking her to help you clarify your read on HER. Which is useless given that she is about to flip and you will know anyway.

In any case, you now seemed convinced she is town, even before you asked for her clarification because you said her self vote was townie. Can you explain how her self vote is townie? and do you remain convinced of this fact after she clarified why you were misreading her for you?

[Toto]

this game is very weird.

[Toto]

We are not mass claiming. And from now on we only claim on we we reach l-1 and someone ELSE declares

intent to hammer

.

Only post

intent to hammer

if you are really scum reading the L-1 target, and really willing to kill that person. If the claim is a VT we kill them.

If they target is scum they will need to gamble with a PR claim to stay alive. This is how it works.

I propose we start with Titus.

[Toto]

We claim after L-1 AND intent to hammer from now on. If target is VT we lynch them.

[Toto]

Only vote titus if you are really scum reading them, though.

Also I want everyone's top two scum reads.

Mine are Titus and Shannon.

[Toto]

Also if you are town please don't fake claim to stay alive it will only hurt your win condition. That would be game throwing and I will blacklist you if you do.

[Toto]

If you claim another role you force the other PR to counter claim and reveal himself. If you are bp there could be a jailkeeper. If you claim doctor the jK will say you are lying because the set up is impossible and now you cost us a jk

[Toto]

For the record Im not sr titus for the playstyle thing but for the shannon townread. I already explained this.

[Toto]

Titus is at L minus 1.

Titus explain again your town read on Shannon. And everyone else for that matter.

No body hammers without posting intent to hammer and have everyone else in the wagon agree to it first. That is only if anyone else thinks Titus is mafia.

[Toto]

UNVOTE: titus

Don't think elhabe noticed the l-1. Also fruitman is there since rvs and he is not very active.

So no claim yet. Just reads.

[Toto]

I don't think "accidentally" voting yourself automatically makes you town.

I agree with you here. But it was Titus who said that, not Shannon. Shannon's willingness to die is anti-town. Not sure if that makes her scum.

[Toto]

-Shannon as Town - Because she has been adding

analytical reasonings

to her reads and posts

(SE hat)

This could actually be a red flag by the way, but it depends on the way she is presenting them. Scum are more likely to provide analysis, instead of information about their state of mind.

Normally this applies as a town tell and is called IIoA (information instead of analysis) but can be used as a scumtell (AIoI)

It is hard to scum to 'feel' things and 'develop reads' because they have a really good view of what is happening and they already have all information they need. Because they have pressure to generate content they will usually spend more time explaining why things are logical or not, whereas town will spend more time telling you what they think it's happening in their confused minds.

[Toto]

I may have the terminology wrong. But this part is definitely true in my experience.

It is hard to scum to 'feel' things and 'develop reads' because they have a really good view of what is happening and they already have all information they need. Because they have pressure to generate content they will usually spend more time explaining why things are logical or not, whereas town will spend more time telling you what they think it's happening in their confused minds.

Also I say the same thing here in a game I was town (and this guy was scum).

This is actually the worst part. You see. When you are scum the first time you realize it is hard to develop 'reads' and cases that look genuine because psychologically you know the truth. At the same time you are pressured to contribute to the game to avoid looking scummy. Thats why talking about game theory is a very good excuse to look like you are participating in the discussion when in fact you are not sharing any information about your state of mind. This tell is documented in the wiki. Its called information instead of analysis. Town are more likely to share information about their state of mind (like alisae) instead of analysis which is easier for scum to do. And the problem with 8nny is that this is the only thing he did.

For the record I don't think this applies to Shannon, though. I was just pointing out that the reasons for believing her town are wrong.

[Toto]

I just read Mandy's ISO. She is scum.

[Toto]

VOTE: Mooney

[Toto]

I re-read Mandy's ISO. I don't think she is scum. UNVOTE: Mooney

[Toto]

I think the way she townread me seemed genuine. And I was under fire and she did not have to do that.

[Toto]

I think the way she townread me seemed genuine. And I was under fire and she did not have to do that.

What you're referring to is whiteknighting. Townreading someone without a reason to do so is quite scummy actually. :/

The iron knee

[Toto]

I think it was her unvote on 108 but looking back they were the last to unvote. I think I was getting newbtown vibes.

That said they havent posted a lot lately

[Toto]

Post is actually 107.

[Toto]

Titus can you link another IC game were you promote this?

[Toto]

First time I read it I got the impression she was only posting about game theory. Second time I didn't get such an impression. She posted some non game theory stuff too.

Pedit. I hope you understand our dilemma here

[Toto]

First time I read it I got the impression she was only posting about game theory. Second time I didn't get such an impression. She posted some non game theory stuff too.

Pedit. I hope you understand our dilemma here

406 please.

Err that was supposed to answer 406

[Toto]

I don't think "accidentally" voting yourself automatically makes you town.

I agree with you here. But it was Titus who said that, not Shannon. Shannon's willingness to die is anti-town. Not sure if that makes her scum.

Actually it's indicative of town.

Death is anti-scum more than it is anti-town because scum would lose half their team upon the death of a member.

Do math.

Its anti town if she is town. It makes our numbers smaller too

[Toto]

I agree with gray on not lynching anti town. Then point is that anti town posting doesn't mean town either.

In this case the scum motivation is to pretend you don't care anymore about life hard enough we all believe you. And thats the gut feeling I get from Shannon's attitude.

Im not sure I buy the case on elhabe. But I want to see them scumhunting.

[Toto]

Mmmmkay I think Im ok with Shannon now.

[Toto]

I agree that if there is two scum in {elhabe,arrow,krylea}

Then its probably krylea+elhabe. Both of them voted arrow. Kryleas interaction with elhabe do look like coaching. But both of them going after arrow sheeping each other doesn't add up so early.

So there is a chance the poe is not 100% correct.

[Toto]

I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Sooo... you have nothing to say about the current discussion vis a vis mooney and shannon and nothing to say about Toto's wagon?

Honestly, Arrowscum seems very scummy to me right now. First, his inactivity and lurking seems like he's trying not to be noticed and overlooked. Secondly, he states that krylea shouts like scum to him because her posts are twisted, but how? It seems like to me that he's trying to push blame towards krylea for no good reason or theory. Lastly, he isn't sharing any views about the current discussions or about anything really, which almost seems like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty or he's trying to blend in. That's why I'm VOTE: Arrowscum
Now I'm curious to how he'll respond.

This could be a chainsaw though.

[Toto]

Ill join the wagon only if we do it the old fashioned way. Krylea coming on board?

[Toto]

This wagon has too much support for a slot that has barely posted. Please no one hammer yet. We have time to hear their response.

[Toto]

Soooo let me get this straight: I was wagoned, and not people are wagoning the person I'm scum reading? OK. Sounds plausible. First thing to do tomorrow, compare names.

I support the hammer, by the way.

Wait. You find this wagon unplausible but still support the hammer?

[Toto]

Im pretty sure the lets compare names tomorrow means she is expecting a green flip here. Why else would she said that. Also the now vs not doesn't change anything.

"People scum reading me are now scum reading my target" means she doesn't trust people in the wagon
"Lets compare names tomorrow" means she is expecting this to flip green and expose those people.

Yet she still supports the wagon.

@screen where did see elhabe online? Elhabe if you are a pr you have to claim.

[Toto]

Hellfire. When you are done catching up with the thread tell us who is scum.

[Toto]

Oh, yeah, Shannon. Do the name comparing, don't forget.

[Toto]

Im ok with a titus lynch today.

Helfire. Im still waiting for your catch up post.

[Toto]

Shannon. You said we should compare names. Compare names please.

[Toto]

VOTE: Titus

This game is easy.

[Toto]

Yeah, that's Titus's partner you are correct.

[Toto]

Yeah, that's Titus's partner you are correct.

Okay... at least tell me why she's scum.

She hasn't done anything townie?

[Toto]

Why is she obvtown though?

[Toto]

My main problem is her town read on Shannon after the 'self vote' and mysterious twilight question. Her answer is that she's never seen scum hammer themselves by accident after I probed a while. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Toto]

You are too cooperative.

[Toto]

leaning town.

[Toto]

Lot's of people are Titus, You, Fruitman. One of them has to be town.

[Toto]

I think she is scummy. But so many people are town reading her for stupid reasons I'm starting to believe it's true.

[Toto]

I've played mafia on atheistforums.org so I know the general game but this is my first one here. Should be fun to see the differences.

VOTE: Toto

Trying too hard.

Shannon when you are back explain how you read this guy as:

Like it's newbie Fear of Missing Out (or fear of being scum read) for not doing the popular thing.

Take your time.

[Toto]

Then there is that 360 turn on your slot again

[Toto]

I can't really go into detail

Why can't you?

[Toto]

So grey, titus and fruitman all think shannon is town.

Grey, titus and fruit also lynched elhabe along with shannon and our late screenplay.

Im very confident that there is at least one scum in that wagon. Odds are that is one of grey, titus or fruit.

I think we are lynching one of those three today.

[Toto]

*Sigh* apologies, I've done this thing (again) where I forget that someone is dead and town (in this case screenplay) and include them in analysis. *sigh*

This reads extremely fake BTW

[Toto]

*Sigh* apologies, I've done this thing (again) where I forget that someone is dead and town (in this case screenplay) and include them in analysis. *sigh*

This reads extremely fake BTW

Can you link where you have done this in the past?

[Toto]

No. We are lynching you or your partner, most likely. I just don't know who that is yet.

Why are you trying to pidegonhole conversation, rather than letting people discuss naturally?

You are doing the same thing she is doing.

Can you share other scum reads you have?

[Toto]

Can you link posts directly It is easier for you to find them

[Toto]

Hey everyone just letting ya'll know I am at work but will try and be more active than Arrow or Missle were. Catching up right now

will make a post with my reads later tonight.

You have:

(expired on 2016-12-23 13:00:00)

left to post your reads or you will be

assimilated

.

[Toto]

No. We are lynching you or your partner, most likely. I just don't know who that is yet.

Why are you trying to pidegonhole conversation, rather than letting people discuss naturally?

You are doing the same thing she is doing.

Can you share other scum reads you have?

I am resetting those but I lean towards the Hellfire slot

This means you think the wagon on elhabe was 100% town.

[Toto]

Your wagon was very persuasive to me.

[Toto]

Also you need to convince me how krylea and arrow are scumbuddies.

[Toto]

Okay finally caught up entirely. This whole game seems fucked because of AFK Lurking players. Feel like we need to pressure now tho.

Here's my full read.

Town:
Toto
Fruit

Null/Scum lean
Krylea
Titus
Grey

Pretty sure Scum:
Shannon

So VOTE: Shannon

Explain your reads

[Toto]

Oh hey are we finally down for a shannon wagon? I am so fucking down for a shannon wagon.

VOTE: shannon

That is l minus 1

No hasty hammers today. *looks at fruit*

[Toto]

Yeah, pretty fine with my vote at the moment.

Anyone have a townread on K or Hawk?

Can you explain your scumread on K?

[Toto]

Dude...

[Toto]

Hey while we're at it, does anyone want to claim Bulletproof? If it goes un-counterclaimed, we know someone is town for at least a couple of Days, assuming that scum even bothers to try NKing them. I think it's better to make such a claim early, rather than in/near LYLO where it's suspect. Thoughts?

Doesnt sound like a good idea. Are you a scum roleblocker? Only scum knows if we have bp in this set up or not.

[Toto]

Hey shannon who would you vote and why?

[Toto]

Problem is bp claims are unconfirmable and only help scum at this point figure out who to night kill.

intent to hammer

Unless you guys prefer to lynch titus Im lynching this tomorrow.

[Toto]

lol that doesnt make any sense

[Toto]

Problem is bp claims are unconfirmable and only help scum at this point figure out who to night kill.

intent to hammer

Unless you guys prefer to lynch titus Im lynching this tomorrow.

Well obviously I'd prefer to lynch Titus than myself, but I don't have a scum read on her.

Also, why the rush?

I have not seen much scumhunting in your iso. you voted elhabe but never explained why. why are you voting fruit now by the way?

you are acting scummy and I dont see the reason to wait more unless you can show me a better case.

[Toto]

titus you are saying the reaction is fake (and deliberate) and out of control in the same sentece

[Toto]

I don't understand. Please elaborate.

[Toto]

I will be patiently waiting with the goose

[Toto]

Fruit who do you think we should lynch?

[Toto]

Shannon is at L-1

No hammers yet. Want to hear from Fruit and Hawk first.

[Toto]

Grey looks town.
Hawk looks town.
Krylea looks town.
Im town.

So it has to be Fruit / Shannon / Titus

Anyone town reading fruit for any reson?

[Toto]

So who's the most suspicious person in this group??

So far is you+titus and also shannon.

[Toto]

I was just waiting for shannon to do something townie. My only worry is shannon could just be having a really really really bad town game.

If that is the case then the people town reading shannon before for bad reasons (fruit/jwd + titus) are more likely to be scum.

Fruit's comment on shannon's 'sound plausible' comment in late D1 is particularly worrying. Jwd hasn't done anything today and I feel the newbtown show is somewhat fake.

The thing is I don't see fruit+shannon because asking fruit for a hammer would be too obvious? But then again that may just be it. Shannon knew that if elhabe claimed pr it would go back to her.

Titus has yet to provide any reason why is hawk+krylea. Hawk looks town to me and is in fact my strongest town read.

[Toto]

@Hawk. I think you misunderstood Shannon. She was talking about we joining the elhabe wagon. Which she never explained why she was voting that way.

@Jwd. Why did you want to end the day?

@shannon. Why did you unvote titus? Why are you voting krylea?

@titus.
Krylea doesn't need to come out on D2 throwing punches if she is scum. Jailkeeper is dead and mafia is in a very good spot to sit back and relax since we have no investigative prs.

Also, you had cleared arrow+elhabe because elhabe voted arrow. Krylea voted arrow too, and was the one that created that wagon. Why didn't you clear that pair until recently?

[Toto]

@creature hawk is voting shannon

We only have one day left.

VOTE: shannon

That should be l-1

[Toto]

Titus. If you are town you are really unhelpful. You have created a situation where we have to lynch both you and Shannon.

Messing tags doesn't clear Shannon. I don't care how many times you repeat that it doesn't make any sense. Your unwillingness to help clarify the issue is forcing us to lynch both you and Shannon. It doesn't even matter what Shannon flips today you are getting lynched tomorrow.

[Toto]

Thats a hammer vote count was wrong

[Toto]

Yeah. If shannon and titus are both town then gg scum team

[Toto]

We are lynching titus tomorrow regardless of how this flips.

[Toto]

We are lynching titus tomorrow regardless of how this flips.

And unless I am horribly wrong somewhere, that is the game.

If that is the case try to proactively town up more in your next town IC game. I can not trust you in this one. A good IC EXPLAINS why messing tags clears Shannon. You did not. Any effort you put now to town up is reactive and I will ignore it.