Newbie 1441 (Game Over)

[Nominull]

Ok so the main thing I got from interaction analysis was this: Spaces put Drake on L-2 moving the wagon off the townie Montosh near the end of day 1. If Drake is Space's scumbuddy, that's a real ballsy. Also, Spaces was highly interactive with NotSci day 1, much more so than with other lynch candidates, and he was one of the people on the day 2 NotSci wagon that failed.

Beyond that there are a few more major events in the game:
*Drake and NotSci were on the day1 mislynch. NotSci pushed it hard, hard hard.
*NotSci's woe-is-me self-vote day2.
*TIP and Drake both were reluctant to vote for conf-scum Spaces. Drake went so far as to vote for our tracker Tigris. WTF guys. You can't both be scum.
*JS has contributed very little overall all game, so there's little exculpatory evidence for him.
*JS was Montosh's final scumread, TIP was Tigris's final scumread.

[Nominull]

So we don't get a clear picture out of that, but it looks to me on the balance that the two lucky winners are

JacobSavage and notscience

. Let me know what you think, quickly.

[Nominull]

VOTE: notscience

We're doing notscience today, maybe we won't need to do tomorrow at all. He won't make it to LYLO, just like he wanted.

[TheIrishPope]

I obviously object to this.

[Nominull]

I obviously object to this.

Because you think, mistakenly, he's conftown? Or did you have some other reason? I do not find your already-raised objections in this matter compelling.

[JacobSavage]

Okay I can totally see where you are coming from.

Why is montash being my final scum-read relevent? He was lynched... if anything Brians scum-reads would be more relevent.

I think you are twisting the facts here

[Nominull]

Okay I can totally see where you are coming from.

Why is montash being my final scum-read relevent? He was lynched... if anything Brians scum-reads would be more relevent.

I think you are twisting the facts here

No, scum chose deliberately to kill Brian and confirm his innocence, so we don't give as much weight to his reads as we would to someone who was lynched by the town or killed as a PR.

IIRC Brian's final scumread was on me anyway? I'm conf-town.

[notscience]

I'm conf-town.

So am I, but you're voting me purely so I don't get to lylo and intend to hand the game over to drake-scum, so whatever.

[Nominull]

I'm conf-town.

So am I, but you're voting me purely so I don't get to lylo and intend to hand the game over to drake-scum, so whatever.

That day 1 move by Spaces, how do you explain it? TIP-scum seems more likely to me than drake-scum, if we were to lose.

[Nominull]

FWIW between you and JacobSavage I give JacobSavage the edge in suspicion but I can't trust TIP to lynch you at lylo so we're doing you first.

[notscience]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5400137

Look at this stance on Drake. He's placed votes on Drake yes, but look at the REASONING behind it. It was a weak vote that serves to distance and achieves EXACTLY what you're doing now.

And that vote was really weak, it looks to me like distancing. He probably banked on me tunneling Montosh so he died.

[notscience]

If the reason you want to lynch me today is because they won't lynch me tomorrow, that should clue you in that I am town.

[Nominull]

TIP hasn't thought this through and has bought into your crap logic. That doesn't make you town, that makes TIP gullible. The problem is that at LYLO if you're scum we need his gullible vote, whereas now we can do it without him.

[Nominull]

The mod came out and contradicted you, I dunno why TIP believes you anyway. But he seems pretty unshakable on it.

[notscience]

Nom, TIP has been calling me town since D2, BEFORE Spaces pulled that stuff. The point is, you're ONLYY lynching me today because they won't lynch me in LyLo. Aka, because I'm town you want me dead today so the ACTUAL scumpool is 1v1 in Lylo.

[Nominull]

What? I'm lynching you because I think you're the second most likely to be scum. It's only today because TIP doesn't think so and I've given up convincing him.

Don't worry so much about it man. If you're town you can still win even if you're lynched. If you're town, that is.

[notscience]

No, we can't.

Why can't we?

Because you're saying to lynch JACOB when the person who has the highest likelihood of being scum is DRAKE

It doesn't matter WHAT that vote was. It was for a really bad reasoning and was distancing. I've already explained why Drake is scum, but you're being obstinate. We aren't going to be lynching me. You're banking on a one time event to call Drake town. You aren't reading his other stuff.

[TheIrishPope]

Guys Drake is obviously scum. Stop fighting. You're both Town.

[notscience]

I know that, I'm trying to show Nom that because he;s being dense.

[Nominull]

Thoughts, Drake?

[Drake Crusader]

I do understand where your coming from here Nom. I can see the reasoning. NS could potentially be a scum however, he does seem more town the JS. Montosh called JS out from the beginning as a scum read. He has done nothing to attack or go out of his way to scumhunt other than slide day to day and join other people pushes. So I would be all for a JS lynch. Going out on a limb for a NS lynch because even though I can understand what your saying. I just don't feel that he is scum at all. However, Looking into the NS - TIP interaction. Could TIP be more of a suspect then NS or JS ? The man jumps in and stays flip-flopy all game untill now. If he replaced scum at a time like this he would need to buddy up to protect himself. Since spaces flipped scum and such proved Tigris claim to be a PR. I trust his reads more than Montosh. Which was TIP. The question that sits in my mind would be: is TIP (who was Tigris's first read) be more of a scum choice between JS or NS? ( Being that Tigris called for both of them [ JS being before or after NS ])
For JS:
He hasn't placed a serious vote all game. Other then the vote on spaces I believe.
He hasn't provided anything useful truly to the progression of the game.
He won't even engage or defend. He will however, provide one sentence answers until the crowd goes away.
NS:
He has voted himself at L-1. Has talked about self lynching himself and has voted himself twice to remove pressure.
Very aggressive however, With him killing Tigris at night he would give himself the edge to wipe everyone else off.
Seems very buddy buddy with TIP. This takes into account how swayable TIP could be. He uses this for an advantage to gain an extra vote. OR TIP uses it to defend himself and shield the fact that he may be scum.
Hammered a Town which he pushed for a lynch. When he was providing a town vibe at end he hammers and just laughs it off. This would be the start of the distaste for him.
TIP:
Jumped in and supported NS even if NS was scum I believe TIP would protect him to the death.
Supports an idea that he could be scum even if NS is town. Doesn't weigh options but, will follow NS vote around.
Those two make me feel that he is scum and NS is really town.

The mod did come out with that statement. However, it didn't really defend NS claim. It stills leaves a lot of discussion around it and gray area is always nice for Scum to hide in.
My read list would be :
JS
NS/TIP

Thoughts ?

[Nominull]

My thought is, you should vote for notscience and so should JS. We don't have a lot of time left.

[Drake Crusader]

Well I guess you do have a point on the time left. We don't have long. After debating on this one. I guess I could either keep vote on JS and end the day in a no Lynch. Or
UNVOTE:
VOTE: NotScience
NS today. Then its all over.

[notscience]

Nom, allow me to explain how fucking dense you are.

1) TIP has played more games with me than you. He's hydra'd with me. If anyone in this game is able to read me, it's him. Not you.

2) You're compromising the game to a scumfuck because you're too dense to see the poor reasoning behind the vote THAT IS YOUR STAPLE FOR DRAKE BEING TOWN. I asked your opinion of it, you ignore it.

3) Would scum-spaces have bussed me so hard after I pushed a mislynch on Montosh if I was his partner? No He was pushing me hard D2. He was voting me most of D2. Had I been his scumbuddy on D3 I would have asked him to be modkilled, because that's the lowest of the low.

4) Your STAPLE reasoning for Drake being town was a poorly reasoned vote from Spaces on D1 that put him on L-2 in lieu of a town wagon. Ever occur to you he might not want his hands in the blood?

5) Look at the above vote. Explain how this makes ANY sense from a town PoV. Not even 10 posts ago he says his reads are (scum<town) JSav<TIP<Me<You. Now, he says that lynching me makes it game over. A wise man once said, scum get really obvious in lylo situation. Now, look at him today. He is SETTING UP LYLO right in front of you. Setting himself up to kill you, then say his read on me was wrong. He's setting up the unsure townie aspect.

6) But NS I don't want you in lylo!- I don't give a shit, don't compromise the game because of it. I'm town, he isn't. Take a minute and read what he's done today, then ask yourself if that one stupid vote changes him being so scummerific.

[Nominull]

TIP's reasoning is based on a misunderstanding of the rules, not based on his read on you. Drake is getting on the wagon led by conf-town like a good townie should do. I'm not persuaded, NS.

JS, do you have concerns that are keeping you from placing your vote? If you do, I'll listen, but you need to make it quick, deadline is in less than a day.