In post 287, JaeReed wrote:In post 224, nancy wrote:@Jae According to what I understand about this game, I find your comments re Lemon wagon to be scummy. You don't seem very confident in your TR on her, I'm certainly not, and you've previously stated that L-2/1 is a great way to force people to prove themselves. Please explain to me why I'm wrong.
I somehow find myself agreeing with bowdown's earlier assessment that pressure on Lemon won't do much good. Regardless of alignment I think votes piling on her will just cause her to flail more, which isn't helpful if she's town.
In post 306, bowdown wrote:Regardless of alignment I think votes piling on her will just cause her to flail more, which isn't helpful if she's town.
In post 254, bowdown wrote:In post 243, JaeReed wrote:To bowdown: Explain why you followed Titus. (implies you think he could be partnered with Titus or scum sheeping Titus since she told him to do it)
Think I said this before, but to see what happened. I wanted to try najed voting (kind of) - learned a little but honestly not a big fan of the strategy. I do want to point out Revans soft defense of Lemon in case either flips scum (202, 204).
In post 260, bowdown wrote:Jae, why is looking for scumslips a scumtell? 250 and GL
In post 537, JaeReed wrote:Dewy pointing out your "scum-slip" pings me majorly. Generally scum like to justify their votes with scum-slips that aren't really slips, so that when someone flips town they can fall back on that. Zyf's reaction to it was better (especially since it was following Dewy pointing it out, so he's already influenced by that). Your list having you in the scum pile in context was meant to be an obvious chuck off at your reads not matching LQ's (since you went with the "my reads are the antithesis of yours" comment).
In post 302, Titus wrote:^^My response wound up in quote. EL just seems far too obsessed with not throwing GL under the bus.
In post 319, nancy wrote:Did he really just lie to Titus?
In post 262, EccentricLemon wrote:tojam hasn't provided me with any new evidence and even made a claim to a role, which was quite uncalled for. I personally can't say that that's convinced me of his innocence.
My question to Jae:
Why are you being so harsh with Revan when he seems to be exhibiting the same patterns of behavior as I am?
Your commentary was also really helpful, by the way. It helps me a lot to see how someone other than I interprets my posts.
In post 266, tojam2 wrote:In post 244, JaeReed wrote:In post 187, nancy wrote:So what's next here? Does PR cc now? Wait until tomorrow? Something else?
I'll actually answer this with some quotes from the first game I ever read on the site. Partially because I'm lazy. Note that since this was during a game the situation is slightly different to our own. How someone claims matters somewhat, too. Every game is different.Spoiler: PR ramblings from Nachomamma8In post 492, Nachomamma8 wrote:As far as prioritizing scumreads go, you should always always always prioritize your strongest scumread over any others. The only time when you should be prioritizing someone based on threat level is if you have personal experience with someone (meaning that they could shoot you and drift through the rest of the game much easier); in most other cases, threat level is high on a player because you can't read them very well, which should make you less willing to lynch someone, not more.
(PR rambling starts here.)
Basic PR theory tends to change based on the situation you're in. In this setup specifically, if you're a cop and there are two scum alive, you're looking to target someone who is likely living to endgame. The idea behind that is forcing scum to kill people that they didn't plan on killing OR giving a town a useful confirmed innocent somewhere down the road. If you take this route and scum doesn't kill you or your innocent, it's probably a good idea to claim Day 2; it will confirm you as town and it will confirm your innocent as town meaning if you have two solid town reads then you outright win the game (a townblock of 4 players allows you to lynch the remaining 3 in 7p).
If you're a cop/tracker and there's one scum alive, investigate who the town is planning on lynching. Either you end the game outright, or you give people as much time to reevaluate as possible. If the scum that was lynched was a roleblocker, then you out your role and your result immediately, take the game to no lynch and continue doing so until the doctor is dead; this results in a win in a majority of scenarios.
If you're a tracker/jailkeeper and there's two scum alive, follow your heart. In a two man scum team, there is generally scum in a weak position and scum in a strong position. Scum in the strong position are less likely to be tracked but are a greater loss to the scumteam when they are tracked. Scum in the weak position are more likely to be tracked but are a smaller loss to the scumteam when they are tracked. If you don't see anyone go anywhere, it is not an innocent; their scumpartner could have been the player who submitted the kill.
That being said, don't ignore your results; if you track a really, really scummy player and they didn't go anywhere, then they might be town; usually when scum are dealing with terrible partners they make them submit the kill.
If you are a Jailkeeper, you also have the option to protect your strongest townread: it's usually easier to block a kill this way although the results are not as juicy as if you block a scummy player. However, just because there's no kill after you protected your strongest townread it doesn't mean innocent; your strongest townread could have been scum submitting the kill. Just because there's no kill after you blocked your strongest scumread doesn't mean guilty; sometimes scum makes strange kill choices.
If you are a Jailkeeper and there is one scum left, claim immediately; if there is a one-shot bulletproof in the setup, they should claim as well. If a one-shot bulletproof claims, block them overnight; if they are scum they will be unable to kill, which means that if you are shot that night they are confirmed town the next day and if you aren't they will be unable to win (sometimes scum will no kill in this situation, which means use your best judgment). If no one claims bulletproof, block whoever you want to overnight but claim your target before you do so; that way, if scum kill you, that person will become confirmed town.Spoiler: Counterclaiming from Nachomamma8In post 493, Nachomamma8 wrote:And remember the handy dandy when to counterclaim!
If someone claims cop, everyone should wait for a one-shot bulletproof (if it exists) to counterclaim. If no one-shot bulletproof counterclaims, then cop/tracker/jailkeeper should counterclaim.
If someone claims tracker, cop/jailkeeper/tracker should counterclaim.
If someone claims jailkeeper, doctor gets the opportunity to counterclaim first, then cop/jailkeeper/tracker should counterclaim.
If someone claims doctor, wait for a doctor or one-shot bulletproof to claim first, then counterclaim if you are a jailkeeper.
If someone claims one-shot bulletproof, wait for a doctor or one-shot bulletproof to claim first, then counterclaim if you are a cop.
People claiming doctor/bulletproof and not getting counterclaimed doesn't make them town, so sometimes it's better to lynch them even though they are claiming PR.
In this specific situation, if Fragger claimed doctor/bulletproof, I'd probably be for lynching him anyways.
If Fragger claims tracker/cop/jailkeeper I wouldn't believe him for a moment, but I'd happily lynch Occ in his place; we wouldn't have enough time for a counterclaim anyways and it would allow the tracker/cop/jailkeeper to possibly snag an extra innocent/block a kill and he wouldn't be able to win if Occ was his scumpartners anyways (although tracker counterclaiming here would be fine).
Thanks Jae, real easy way for scum to lynch me.
In post 270, nancy wrote:Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario for a moment. Assume EccentricLemon is scum. JaeReed asks me to question my TR of EL and afterwards begins to post very actively. In the midst of this they put their first vote of the game on tojam2 with little to no justification (his worst crime at that point was basically not posting enough content), and post their reads list/tier. After intimating that their preference was for wagoning to pressure players (demonstrated in practice by their vote on tojam2), they claim, in rather uncertain terms, that in light of a newbie's post they believe EL may be Town (am I really meant to believe that I pointed things out to them that they hadn't already seen?), unvotes, expresses the opinion that we should not focus on Lemon, and suggests to me that a conflicted read is fine as a null read (sounds like great advice, but it also greatly serves their rescue of Lemon). Their previous hesitance to scumhunt is gone, they begin dispensing advice and towncred freely, and are quickly directing Town in directions away from Lemon.
So yes, right now I believe that JaeReed and EccentricLemon are scum partners. Take a look at 168 again, too, or previous examples of Jae ignoring people's questions when they're part of a scumhunting effort directed against them.
In post 309, bowdown wrote:Right, and those votes earlier were much more for pressure (e.g. Titus's naked vote). Votes now on Lemon are votes to lynch.