[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Adel]

Vanilla Plus, 9 players

3 Mafia
6 Townie

You are a Townie. You sleep all night long and help the town during the day with your vote.

You know that ZZZZZ is also a Townie.

Please confirm by PM.

I think this idea is original, and that the balance is ok.

The names of the innocent would be generated randomly, with the players understanding that more than one Townie may know that a specific ZZZZZ is innocent.

[Adel]

Election!

4 Townies
2 Masons
3 Mafia

Day start

Roles of Doc, Cop, and Compulsive Vig (must kill) are up for election each day.

Every 14 meat-space days the polls close, votes are counted, roles assigned, and night begins. In the event of a tie, the role is first come, first serve. A player cannot have two roles, so all roles will be assigned by chronological sequence of votes. Votes are cast as a ballot with a different name in each slot, and all slots filled (until there are less than four remaining) or else the ballot is not counted. Your name can be one of the names on the ballot. Yes, mafia and mason players can have an elected role. Three meat-space days would equal a night.

I think this would produce some interesting play for the mafia- with coordination and teamwork replacing trying to figure out who the Townie power roles are. Campaigning might be interesting "If elected Vig I vow to kill the second-place result of the lynch vote," or "If elected Doc I will protect XXXX"

The ballot would look like:

Ballot:
Lynch:ZZZZZ
Doc:YYYYY
Cop:XXXX
Vig:WWWW

Maybe throw in a Miller as an extra player or in place of a Townie to adjust balance. Or have Miller be another elected role just to confuse things a little more.

{edited in vain attempt to clarify the assignment of roles, day start added}

[Adel]

That's why I thought the townie number wasn't enough, I was originally thinking of 15.

Why not throw in 2 or 3 doctors or 2 or 3 cops for balance instead? And consider letting the SK's know when they've been targeted by another SK.

[Adel]

Vanilla Plus would need some work/tweaks/clarification to ensure balance to see play.

Vanilla Plus, 9 players

3 Mafia
6 Townie

You are a Townie. You sleep all night long and help the town during the day with your vote.

You know that ZZZZZ is also a Townie.

Please confirm by PM.

I think this idea is original, and that the balance is ok.

The names of the innocent would be generated randomly, with the players understanding that more than one Townie may know that a specific ZZZZZ is innocent.

Could someone help me with this? I am not sure where to take it from here.

[Adel]

Thanks for the feedback.

As an example, six roles are created by the mod with balance in mind:

townie a who knows that b is innocent
townie b who knows that c is innocent
townie c who knows that b is innocent
townie d who knows that e is innocent
townie e who knows that d is innocent
townie f who knows that c is innocent

And are distributed. The actual list isn't public knowledge to prevent the gaming of the roles or a mass role-claim. That there is overlap in knowledge of innocence prevents a double-claim from being a roleclaim.

I understand that it is difficult to forsee how the game would go, I myself do not have a clue.

Do you think it would be fun?

[Adel]

There would be nothing preventing the mafia from joining in the mass claim. I thought the one way trust relationships would complicate the game in an interesting way. Oh, I see it now: A mass role claim and townie lynch on day 1 would confirm between 1 and 3 townies. would 3:5 or 2:3 be a better ratio?

[Adel]

I don't know how to evaluate for balance, but in principle Night Start Double or Nothing(12) is something I would sign up for.

[Adel]

Consider making it two groups of mafia to complicate conflicting claims and to override a single doc protect.

[Adel]

the idea is having a really really long game with very few NKs?

[Adel]

nightless = no night kills = no way for mafia to kill townies other than lynch?

[Adel]

Texan Rapid-Fire Mafia

9 Single-Shot Day-Kill Vigs
2 Double-Shot Day-Kill Mafia

Mafia can PM during the day. No night phase, no lynching. Last team standing wins.

(Would 3 Single-Shot Day-Kill Mafia be better?)

[Adel]

Can more than one mafia kill in a row? Can they use both shots in a row?

Yes and yes. There is no endgame where the mafia wins once they outnumber the town. If everyone runs out of bullets it is a draw.

[Adel]

Would making the doc be a faith healer (50% chance) have a similar result, while still keeping the prisoner's dilemma aspect? Or has it been tried already with unfavorable results?

[Adel]

yellowbounder: what role do points serve? With 7 PGO's why would scum ever target?

Wouldn't the joke be better if you had two masons? Or entanglement between two particles, so if someone targets one then the other's state is defined? State could be role, or alignment, or something else.

There could be laws of attraction and repulsion where if one player votes for someone another must, or can't. Factions could flavors of quarks for flavor. The strange quark would be an SK, for instance.

Anyway, sounds like an interesting theme game to me.

[Adel]

I like it because it retards but does not prevent the chances of the Cop breadcrumbing or claiming early to draw protection.

[Adel]

Now, if it was "0-2 millers, chosen randomally" that might be more interesting.

I think random roles detract from the beauty of the Open Game format. However designing a good open game is tough.

I know why the old C9 with one cop and one doc was broken.

Could someone explain to me why the current C9 with the random doc and cop is better than

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Cop
Doc
3 Townies

It prevents the broken Cop claim on day 1 for doc protection. Is it because boring predictable play results? Cop and fake-cop claim Day1. Roleblocker lynch: game over. Townie lynch: townie or Doc NK, no results from investigation day 2: lynch or loose. Coin flip: game over.

[Adel]

Delayed recruitment would be an interesting mechanic. It would tweak the power of a recruiter down slightly.

-Mafia recruiter targets Player zzzz
-Daybreak, if recruited player dies, alignment is revealed as Mafia
-Nightfall: Recruited player receives PM notifying him of new alignment. Mafia Recruiter targets next player.

[Adel]

Mass role claim day 1 yields six confirmed innocents unless the mafia fake claim. Each NK of a mason confirms the other. Lynch day 1 is 1 in 4 to hit, day 2 is 1 in 3, once a lynch hits for town the rest of the claimed townies are confirmed. Balance may be broken for town.

Ban role claiming in any form and you may have a game.

[Adel]

I think more goons and plain townies may be a better way, but I don't care, I want to play in it. That poor SK. At least make him NK immune.

For a really quick game try:
3 NK-immune SK (with Mason investigation)
2 Day Masons
2 Night Masons
2 Anytime Masons
2 Townies

Night 0 start (investigate, but no NK)

[Adel]

Nominate Fire and Ice v2

for the lovely endgame possibilities.

[Adel]

I hope the doc claims in the first post. That would be awesome.

[Adel]

Pick a flavor:

Orange Mafia

3 Goons
1 Miller
1 Cop
1 Doctor
6 Townies

Night Start

Grape Mafia

4 Goons
2 Cops
1 Miller
1 Doctor
4 Townies

Night Start

Coconut Mafia

4 Goons
3 Doctors
5 Townies

Night Start

Sour-Apple Mafia

3 Goons
3 Vigs
6 Townies

Night Start!

Wild Berry Mafia

3 Goons
2 Masons
2 Lovers (can talk at night, die together)
5 Townies

Day Start

Kiwi Mafia

3 Goons
1 SK
2 Vigs
1 Cop
5 Townies

Day Start

Champagne Mango Mafia

2 Krasnaya Mafiya (Scum group A)
2 Matsuba-kai (Scum group B)
1 Vig
1 Doctor
1 Cop
5 Townies

Day Start

[Adel]

Champagne Mango Mafia 2

2 Krasnaya Mafiya (Scum group A)
2 Matsuba-kai (Scum group B)

1 Vig

1 SK

1 Doctor
1 Cop
5 Townies

Day Start

[Adel]

Grape Mafia 2

4 Goons
2 Cops

1 Miller

1 Tracker

1 Doctor
4 Townies

Night Start

[Adel]

Orange Mafia 2

3 Goons

1 Miller

1 Tracker

1 Cop

of unknown sanity- equal odds of being sane, insane, paranoid, or naive

1 Doctor
6 Townies

Night Start

[Adel]

Trail Mix Mafia

3 Goons
1 SK
1 Cop
3 Trackers
4 Townies

Day Start

[Adel]

I noticed the majority of players signing up for Open Setup games are newbies. That is who I made these games for.

With the exception of Coconut and Wild Berry, these setups were designed to yield fast & violent games yielding end games where understanding competing role claims is vital for town's success.

The major balance issue of Coconut is the possibility of cross protection between Doctors.

Wild Berry is probably off in scum's favor, but it should appeal more to experienced players due to its simplicity.

The night starts do share the danger of a lucky night move destroying the balance of the game, but that is the trade off for a faster day 1 based upon real information. I think balance is less of an issue for these games than is commonly believed. At least one Village Idiot will be in each game, possibly in a vital role, and one strong player can destroy balance as well even in a vanilla role.

[Adel]

Sour-Apple Mafia 2

3 Goons
3 Vigs
6 Townies

Night Start!

Day Start

Wild Berry Mafia 2

3 Goons

2 Masons

2 Lovers (can talk at night, die together)

2 Lovers (can talk at night, die together)

5 Townies

1 Doctor
4 Townies

Day Start

The Doctor is needed for balance, between Day 1 and Night 1 the town could loose four players.


Does this one look good? It seemed untouched by the criticism.

Kiwi Mafia

3 Goons
1 SK
2 Vigs
1 Cop
5 Townies

Day Start

[Adel]

Thanks for taking the time to give feedback on my brainstorming session. Would you mind tweaking one so that we can get some games into the Queue?

[Adel]

Nominate

Wild Berry 4

Love Mafia

2 Goons
3 Lovers
1 Treacherous Lover
1 Doc
5 Town

Day Start

Two Lovers are tied together, and both die if either dies. The Treacherous Lover is mafia, and does not die if the lover she is tied to dies, but her Lover does die if she dies.
Both pairs of Lovers are able to PM each other at night.

[Adel]

I'd have the Treacherous Lover die with her partner.

Also, I'm amused that you're automatically assuming that the female Lover is the treacherous one.

Then she wouldn't be nearly as Treacherous, would she?


oops, did I just hint at my Treacherous past?

[Adel]

I swear that I'm going to eventually get a game accepted.

Big Love Mafia

1 Godfather
2 Goons
1 Treacherous Lover (member of the mafia)
5 Lovers
1 Cop
9 Townies

Day Start

The Lovers are tied together in pairs. Each pair is able to PM at night. Each pair dies together, except for the Treacherous Lover who doesn't die if her partner dies.

[Adel]

I like Pickem's assuming that the Doc can only protect against one NK

Nominate Picking Simplicity

[Adel]

Xdaamno: Just pick a version, her's or mine, and nominate it. The only difference is whether or not the Treacherous Lover dies with her lover. I like the more treacherous variant better for its style and I think it is a mite more balanced, but I think either would be fine.

[Adel]

I feel like a moron for missing that you replaced the cop with a doc.

Nominate Big Love Mafia

3 Goons
1 Treacherous Lover (member of the mafia)
5 Lovers
1 Doc
9 Townies

Day Start

The Lovers are tied together in pairs. Each pair is able to PM at night. Each pair dies together, even the Treacherous Lover.

[Adel]

Texan Rapid-Fire Mafia

9 Single-Shot Day-Kill Vigs
2 Double-Shot Day-Kill Mafia

Mafia can PM during the day. No night phase, no lynching. Last team standing wins.

(Would 3 Single-Shot Day-Kill Mafia be better?)

Albert I think this game would appeal to you, perhaps with some tweaking.

[Adel]

Big Love Mafia Redux

4 Goons
1 Doc
14 Townies

Day Start

The Lovers are tied together in pairs. Each pair is able to PM at night. Each pair dies together. The Lover pairs are determined randomly and regardless of role (Doc could be a pair with a Goon, two Goons could be in the same pair, things like that).

I think having an unknown number of lovers would make for an even better game, even if it would make it a theme game instead of an open game.

[Adel]

I like it as it is. I like the goons not knowing if they are the godfather, and I like the single miller who thinks he is a vanilla townie. The inevitable fake cop claim (or two) would make for an interesting game. I like that you didn't try to do anything too fancy like having a quack, a faith healer, and a normal doc and not letting them know what kind of doctor they were.

Like this one:

House of Mirrors Mafia

2 Goons in Mafia A (50% chance of one being a Godfather)
2 Goons in Mafia B (50% chance of one being a Godfather)
1 Insane Cop (accurate investigation 50% of the time, opposite investigation result 50% of the time)
1 Sane Cop (investigations are always accurate)
1 Paranoid Cop (investigation results for all players is "scum")
1 Naive Cop (investigation result for all players is "town")
1 Faith Healer (protects 50% of the time, can not self protect, nor can he prevent a death caused by the Quack Doctor's protection)
1 Quack Doctor (can not self protect, doesn't protect, kills patient 50% of the time)
1 Doctor (can not self protect, nor can he prevent a death caused by the Quack Doctor's protection)
1 Miller/Mason (investigates as Scum to a sane cop, is revealed by death to be Town)
1 Death Miller/Mason (investigates as Town to a sane cop, is revealed by death to be a Goon)

*one of the Goons of Mafia A or Mafia B is really a Godfather, but is not informed of this by role PM, and his Godfather status is not revealed by his death. His death is reported as "Goon". All other Mafia deaths, regardless of group, are reported as "Goon".
*The Millers are both told they are Goons by the same role PM's sent to the actual mafia players, and they think they have a Night Kill. They both actually win with town, and they do not have a night kill.
*The Doctor's type (Faith Healer, Quack, or normal) is not revealed by death, and is not known to the player

[Adel]

There is a really fundamental bit of theory I don't think I quite understand well enough for making balanced set ups.

Which requires more power roles in the town?:

a: 1 Godfather, 2 Goons
b: 3 Goons, 1 SK
c: 2 Goons in Mafia A, 2 Goons in Mafia B

how much difference does 1 time or constant cross kill protection change things?

[Adel]

Okay, I think this is balanced then.

What is the Dark Knight? Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Dark Knight*
1 Cop
1 Doc
6 Townies

Night Start

* The Dark Knight can investigate like a Cop can. If investigated by a sane Cop, the Dark Knight aways returns a "guilty" or "mafia" or "scum" or similar result. The Dark Knight can either investigate a target or kill a target each night. There is a 50% chance that the Dark Knight is a Serial Killer, and wins if he is the only player left alive, otherwise he wins with the town. If the Dark Knight is a SK he also gains immunity from being killed by a night move. If killed, the Dark Knight's role and alignment will be reported as simply "(Player's Name), Dark Knight"

I was trying to decide between this and other scum groupings. My other impulse was to have two scum groups, but I abandoned that idea thanks to Kelly's input.

[Adel]

Which Dark Knight do we trust? Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Dark Knight (scum)*
1 Dark Knight (town)*
1 Cop
1 Doc
5 Townies

Night Start

* The Dark Knight can investigate like a Cop can. If investigated by a sane Cop, the Dark Knight aways returns a "guilty" or "mafia" or "scum" or similar result. If investigated a Dark Knight, the investigation result is "Dark Knight". The Dark Knight can either investigate a target or kill a target each night. One Dark Knight is a Serial Killer, and wins if he is the only player left alive. The scum Dark Knight also has immunity from being killed by a night move. The town Dark Knight wins with the town. If killed, both Dark Knight's role and alignment will be reported as simply "(Player's Name), Dark Knight". If one Dark Knight targets the other Dark Knight for a night kill, the kill will fail. If both Dark Knights target each other for a night kill, both will die- this is the only way the scum Dark Knight can die as the result of a night move.[/quote]

[Adel]

In the first setup, if the DK is protown... That seems awfully strong. Not only do you have a doc to protect the cop, you have another cop who doesn't even have to claim results.

I think the cop investigating the DK and getting "guilty" and the DK's alignment being unprovable attenuates some of the impact of a protown DK.

A scum DK has to be sure the mafia don't die off too soon, since if the game continues after the mafia are gone it's a dead giveaway that the DK is scum. I haven't thought this through but it seems like this might add up to the scum DK typically being unable to win.

A scummy DK is immune to a mafia's NK. In a scummy DK-mafia-single townie night phase the DK wins. In a DK-mafia-single townie day phase so long as the DK isn't lynched, he always wins, and if the last three massclaim the townie will always be on that 50% chance that the DK is also town: the townie has 0% chance of winning otherwise.

I think the game with a single pro-town DK is balanced towards town, but I don't think it is quite broken. The mafia will have teamwork on their side, and the danger of a scummy DK should keep the town hesitant to protect him.

Consider this tactic: After two mislynches and an accurate vig by a pro-town DK the score is (1 mafia goon, 1 mafia godfather) - 1 town DK - (1 Cop, 1 Doc, 2 townies) The Cop and the DK know the Doc and is innocent. Cop just got a "guilty" verdict on the DK. The Cop reports the DK is guilty, the DK claims that he is a protown DK. The Goon points out where he breadcrumbed on day 1 "I am the dark knight, returned!" The Fakeclaiming goon points out that even if he is a scummy DK, if they kill off the two mafia together, the town will still win. The town lynches the DK. During the night move the mafia kill the Doc. The next day is a lynch-the-lyer autolynch: resulting with a night move townie death and a score of 1 Godfather - (1 Cop, 1 townie) and the Cop who can't trust his innocent investigation results. The mafia could easily win.

The millerness is probably limited in effect. It could cause the cop to claim prematurely when he gets the guilty result, and that would cause the DK to have to claim. I can't see it resulting in a DK lynch though (not the investigation itself anyway... unless the DK had earlier claimed to not be DK). I also don't think mafia would ever try claiming DK (which was the first thing I considered when I read the DK was a miller), since that's just asking to be vigged.

I just pointed out where a mafia could counter claim a DK and get a lynch. I think there are couple of other critical scenarios where the miller effect is bad for the unclaimed DK.

Do you think the first game is broken?

If both DKs claim, the town probably waits for the scum to succeed in killing off the good one, meaning the other DK is obviously scum.

I really like the possibility of what happens when both DKs have claimed, and neither can kill the other with a night move, and there are one or two townies left. I also like the endgame with one mafia, one claimed DK of unknown alignment, and one or two townies. I like a mafia Godfather being left with a DK and a townie. I like fakeclaims by mafia as well. I like the night start and the quick day 1. The open queue moves fast enough that two NK's on night 1 will leave two players who can easily get back into another game. I like like the number of scenarios where the vanilla townie will get to cast a critical vote that determines the outcome of the game. I think some players will almost drool at the chance to be a Dark Knight- He's like a Sk and a Vig and a Cop: all of the coolest roles combined into one over-powered bad-ass. The scummy DK is even immune to being NK'd! (Albert B. Rampage: I have you in mind for this role. I'm sorry I couldn't give him unlimited day kills for you, but I did what I could.)
I like that the DK have little reason to ever claim.

If you can think of any ways these games can be improved, or if you think one is more promising than the others, please share. Cooperating with Zin on Big Love was cool, and left me wanting to co-design set-ups as a rule instead of as an exception.

[Adel]

Honestly, the role wasn't supposed to be popular with most girls. I think the resulting game would be interesting to the participants who choose to play in it. I'll play in it. The random alignment do make the balance swingy, but so do the number of night actions. I am still striving for a game that plays fast and entertaining, like a summer blockbuster. It may not appeal to those with refined tastes, and that is ok so long as the kids like it. I want to play in a Dark Knight game, I think it would be fun and unexpectedly swingy but in an interesting and novel way each time. The skill of the player playing the Dark Knight will also have a swingy effect on the game's balance. In that case, how much would the Mafia team up with the town to take down the MeMe-strength Dark Knight? I think that thanks to the number of swingy elements, and how quickly a game should resolve, this popcorn fare will gather a repeat audience.

[Adel]

I've reviewed too many setups lately with millers that wouldn't work as (presumably) intended...

That was almost a compliment I think.

[Adel]

Which Dark Knight do we trust? Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Dark Knight (scum)*
1 Dark Knight (town)*
1 Cop
1 Doc
5 Townies

Night Start

* The Dark Knight can investigate like a Cop can. If investigated by a sane Cop, the Dark Knight aways returns a "guilty" or "mafia" or "scum" or similar result. If investigated, a Dark Knight will return the investigation result of "Dark Knight". The Dark Knight can either investigate a target or kill a target each night. One Dark Knight is a Serial Killer, and wins if he is the only player left alive. The scum Dark Knight also has immunity from being killed by a night move. The town Dark Knight wins with the town. If killed, a Dark Knight's role and alignment will be reported as simply "(Player's Name), Dark Knight", in identical form for both DKs. If one Dark Knight targets the other Dark Knight for a night kill, the kill will fail. If both Dark Knights target each other for a night kill, both will die- this is the only way the scum Dark Knight can die as the result of a night move.

Would someone help me get this ready for prime time? Please?

[Adel]

One Hot Night Mafia

2 Goon Mafia A
2 Goon Mafia B
2 Goon Mafia C
2 Goon Mafia D
5 Townies
1 Doc

Night Start

Death scenes for all mafia will not reveal which mafia the Goon was a member of, just that he was a Mafia Goon.

Yes, 3 or 4 players will sign up only to die right away. Even though this game would be very swingy and random at first, I think the number of different endgames that are probable and the short Day 1 will make it very interesting.

[Adel]

Body Snatchers Mafia

edit: rough draft

Open Setup, Closed Reveal

3 Goons
1 Cop
1 Doc
1 Back-up Cop (becomes the Cop if the Cop dies)
6 Townies

Night Start

[Adel]

I thought the Closed Reveal would place into serious question any claim of role or investigation.

Would a Godfather balance it out? Or would it still be too unbalanced?

My idea was that everyone

knows

that doc protecting cop breaks, but no townie will ever know if a claimed cop or doc is really a cop or doc even if they are dead.

[Adel]

I really appreciate the feedback.

this is what I'm trying to accomplish with an Open Setup and Closed reveal: a setup that would be totally broken if it were a normal open reveal.

This one may be better:

Body Snatchers Mafia

Revision 1

Open Setup, Closed Reveal

1 Godfather
2 Goons
1 Cop
1 Insane Cop (random investigation results, if the same person is investigated twice the Insane Cop will get the same result)
1 Doc
6 Townies

Night Start

[Adel]

Closed reveal means we don't get to see the roles only, or the alignment too ?

you get to see neither. Just that the player is dead.

[Adel]

There's no point in having a cop in that case. Unbalanced in favor of scum, imo.

How would you balance it?

[Adel]

Thesp: Thanks for the questions, and for the list mod 411.

Body Snatchers Mafia

Proposed Final Revision

Open Setup, Closed Reveal

3 Goons (Should 1 be a Godfather?)
1 Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
7 Townies

Night Start

I think I really like this one.

[Adel]

3 Mafia

3 SKs
3 Mafia A
3 Mafia B
3 Cop
3*(3+3)=18 Townies

SKs know who each other are and may communicate at night.

The only viable strategy for the SKs is to work together, because otherwise they just end up dying really early on.

Obviously the numbers are gimicky, but it's just the idea of several SKs who must collaborate. So if these numbers suck, tell me kthxbai.

5 NK's night 1. 30 players.
If an SK is facing lynch what stops him from outing the other SKs to save his own skin? Giving each Sk a post restriction to prevent that is one answer, but most people won't find that a good solution.

I really like the idea of people with different win conditions being forced to compete and cooperate with each other.

Your idea inspired this setup:

Big Sick Love

Player 1 SK - Lovers with Player 8
Player 2 SK - Lovers with Player 3
Player 3 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 2
Player 4 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 5
Player 5 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 4
Player 6 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 7
Player 7 Doctor - Lovers with Player 6
Player 8 Doctor - Lovers with Player 1
Player 9 Doctor - Lovers with Player 10
Player 10 Townie - Lovers with Player 9
Player 11 Townie - Lovers with Player 12
Player 12 Townie - Lovers with Player 11

Day Start.

Lovers die together, if one dies the other instantly dies as well from suicide. Doctor protection cannot prevent suicide.

Each pair of lovers shares the special win condition "

If you and your lover make up two of the last three players left alive, you win together, and all other players lose

"

Lovers are not aware of each other's role and alignment.

Lovers can communicate at night by PM. Lovers and Mafia are not allowed to communicate before the start of the game.

[Adel]

What if the SKs didn't die with their lover, like all of the other lovers do?
What if docs could prevent lover suicide?

[Adel]

Would you mind making a revision if you can see any other improvements? I'm off for the night.

Big Sick Love

revision 1

Player 1 SK - Lovers with Player 8
Player 2 SK - Lovers with Player 3
Player 3 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 2
Player 4 Mafia A - Lovers with Player 5
Player 5 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 4
Player 6 Mafia B - Lovers with Player 7
Player 7 Doctor - Lovers with Player 6
Player 8 Doctor - Lovers with Player 1
Player 9 Doctor - Lovers with Player 10
Player 10 Townie - Lovers with Player 9
Player 11 Townie -

Lovers with Player 12

Player 12 Townie -

Lovers with Player 11

Day Start.

Except for Sks

, lovers die together, if one dies the other instantly dies as well from suicide. SK's never commit suicide. Doctor protection

can

prevent suicide.

Each pair of lovers shares the special win condition "

If you and your lover make up two of the last three players left alive, you win together, and all other players lose

"

Lovers are not aware of each other's role and alignment.

Lovers can communicate at night by PM. Lovers and Mafia are not allowed to communicate before the start of the game.[/quote]

[Adel]

Thesp's Favorite

4 Mafia Goons
1 Doctor
1 Nurse
1 Backup Nurse
1 Backup-Backup Nurse
4 Townies

Day Start

[Adel]

xyzzy- I'll take another look at Mafia 3.2 when I am less tired.
What do you think of

Buddy Cop Movie Mafia

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Doc
1 Psychotic Macho Cop Buddy*
1 Macho Cop Buddy*
6 Townies
Day Start

* Both Macho Cop Buddies receive the following role PM

You are a Macho Cop. The doctor cannot protect from a night kill you because you refuse her help. You are Buddies with _________. You know he is also a Macho Cop who wins with the town. You are

never

allowed to PM your Buddy. One of you is also Psychotic, and will kill the target of your investigation 50% of the time. You win with the town.

[Adel]

You forgot the cop. Doctors (and backups) are more okay if there are no other "must kill" roles in the game.

While it was a joke, I also tried to make it balanced and playable and fun.

Does anyone want to nominate Buddy Cop Movie Mafia? Or tweak it so that it can be nominated?

[Adel]

Donner Party Mafia!

1 Mafia Goon
1 Cannibal Mafia Goon
1 Cannibal SK
1 Cannibal Vig (townie)
2 Masons
1 Cop
5 Townies

Each body (which reveals alignment and role) from a NK goes to the cannibal that kills the the victim. If a Cannibal kills another Cannibal that Cannibal will take all of the bodies belonging the victim Cannibal. When a Cannibal is lynched the town will also find all of the bodies belonging to that Cannibal, revealing the alignments and roles of those victims.

Also, because everyone needs to eat, a vote of

no lynch

is not allowed.

[Adel]

damnit, I love that flavour.

nominate: Donner Party Mafia

[Adel]

fixed. thanks for catching that.

[Adel]

wow. I think I like

Dinner Party Mafia

even better than

Donner Party Mafia

.

[Adel]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... nner_Party

it is on the wiki now. I'm going to get this setup accepted, or at least try really hard.

[Adel]

Nominate c9++

(this is not c9+2, in case you were wondering)

edit: link

I took a quick look at it. Did anyone do the math to find the normal distribution of roles? That is what I would have to look at to determine if the system is balanced or needs to be tweaked. If it is mathematically sound, then I will be all for it.

I seem to remember someone (Kelly Chen?) having an issue with random distribution of roles, or maybe that was just for cop sanities. I like the random element.

[Adel]

Nominate: SEAG mafia

<3 Guardian

psst... wanna join one of my clans? We'll be the good guys with hidden knowledge

[Adel]

I seem to remember someone (Kelly Chen?) having an issue with random distribution of roles, or maybe that was just for cop sanities. I like the random element.

I just read this again, and it totally sounds like I was trying to put words into Kelly's mouth. I totally wasn't. Sorry for the sloppy wording.

[Adel]

SEAG: Small, Elderly, Asian, Gardner.

NOT a PGO who is UNNKable.
If he is targeted for a NK, he kills the Player who targeted him instead. That other player can only survive if he was protected by a doc. A doctor choosing to protect the SEAG will have no effect. The SEAG is so modest he thinks that he really is just a vanilla townie. (He receives the vanilla townie PM) He also wins with the town.

[Adel]

Scumdar Malfunction 2.0

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather
3 Millers
2 Cops
4 Townies

Night Start


I think there is an interesting idea here.

[Adel]

As a cop I wouldn't be able to trust the investigations at all with so many millers. As a result, what's the point?

It is a

Scumdar Malfunction

! The investigation results are helpful once a few players are eliminated, just not as useful as they usually are. Look, it is an Open with TWO sane cops and it isn't broken for the town. I think that is pretty neat.

[Adel]

Nominate: Vengeful

second: Vengeful

[Adel]

Nominate:

Life or Death
Mafia-
2 goons
1 NK immune goon

Town-
7 townies
1 combat medic(can either vig or doc)
1 shellshocked combat medic(not notified if shellshocked. Cannot function as a vig)

I like how few times the combat medics will choose to vig.

[Adel]

Fast Street Mafia

2 mafia goons (the first one to send the mod the PM announcing the choice of NK target makes the kill)
1 tracker
1 street doctor (can only protect each player once)
3 townies

day start, 7 players

number of mafia+1 = number of votes needed to lynch
number of living players * 3 = number of days until deadline set in the nightscene
(e.g. +21 days for 7 alive, +9 days for 3 alive)

the deadline for nights will always be +3 days from the posting of the lynchscene

[Adel]

Number of days until deadline

set

? Or is that the length of the deadline?

whichever makes the length of day 1 be 21 calender days.

Three days for night choices is pretty standard. I think the "goon who submits the NK performs it" rule would have no effect but to further hurt the scum when one of them is AWOL.

one has to be the trigger guy so that the tracker can get a read on him. The scum that doesn't pull the trigger can't be tracked to the victim's house: he didn't go.

The doctor's not bad, though in a game of this size it is almost the same as saying he can't protect the same person on back-to-back nights.

Another difference is that he can self-protect once.

The tracker (maybe) doesn't quite reach its potential here since if he tracks someone to a corpse, they're scum. The only case for ambiguity is if he tracks someone somewhere and there is no death that night... Hmm.

Or if the targeted player didn't go anywhere.

I wanted to design a watered down version of the cop/doc combo, set in a faster game format.

[Adel]

Three days for night choices is pretty standard. I think the "goon who submits the NK performs it" rule would have no effect but to further hurt the scum when one of them is AWOL.

one has to be the trigger guy so that the tracker can get a read on him. The scum that doesn't pull the trigger can't be tracked to the victim's house: he didn't go.

Well I realize

that

, what I'm saying is that you seem to have come up with this rule with the idea that it would make some difference in the gameplay. But three days is already plenty of time for the scum to discuss which one

should

make the kill. So this rule only makes a difference when one scum has no choice but to submit (and thus make the kill) because his partner isn't around to talk to.

ah, I see what you mean now. Good point.

Would it be better if the rule read
"when you pm me the name of your target for the NK, please also tell me which member performs the action, otherwise I will determine the triggerman randomly."

[Adel]

it is called a brain fart. it happens to everyone once in a while. me more than most others

[Adel]

Violent Mafia

2 Mafia goons
1 SK
1 Vig
4 Townies

8 players

day start

[Adel]

Violent Mafia 2.0

2 Mafia goons
1 SK
1 Vig
4 Townies
1 Cult Recruiter

9 players

day start


better?

[Adel]

Violent Mafia 2.1

2 Mafia goons
1 SK
1 Vig
1 Doctor (can self-protect once)
3 Townies

8 players

day start


better?

[Adel]

1 SK whose in both scum groups

that alone could be quite a bit of fun.

Paranoid Scum Mafia

3 Goons, Mafia A
3 Goons Mafia B
1 SK, member of both Mafias, traditional SK win condition, has his own NK
5 Townies

12 Players

day start

it is all about the informed minority within an informed minority

[Adel]

wow, paranoid scum mafia is messed.
what happens when there is one scum one sk left in the group ?

The Sk wins in an endgame scene where the two surviving Mafia start to celebrate their victory, and then the one Mafia who is actually a SK stabs the other and then wears his skin as a pleasant little hat.

Looking at it a second time, I really want to see it played out.

Nominate: Paranoid Scum Mafia

[Adel]

or is this one better?

Paranoid Scum Mafia 2.0

3 Goons, Mafia A
3 Goons Mafia B
1 SK, member of both Mafias, traditional SK win condition, has his own NK
5 Cops

12 Players

[Adel]

whats the point in the cops?

Seriously?

to give the town at least a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Seriously.

[Adel]

before I second it (and I will either way) would you consider making the mason's Day Masons? I think that would be a little more fair to the town.

[Adel]

Both mafia's come out Day 1, and lynch the one who is in both. Then kill the 5 cops (6 > 3) then after town is dead, stop NKs and no lynch for a happily ever after .

While that is possible, I really don't think it would work out like that. The first Mafia group to betray the other would will it all, and I wouldn't trust the other scum group enough to try that gambit. One mafia group would have to out themselves first, and there would be no reason for the second group to play along. The risk of betrayal keeps it from being a breaking tactic.

[Adel]

so does Masons' Dilemma Mk.II get the Kelly Chen seal of approval?

I was thinking about the mass claim as well, and I think throwing in a couple of townies could either ruin your idea or prevent a mass claim resulting in more fun for all.

Masons' Dilemma Mk. III

3x Mafia 1 Goon
3x Mafia 2 Goon
2x Day Masons
2x Day Masons
2x Townie

day start

Thesp

: what are we missing? Many of us are putting quite a bit of energy into developing setups, and giving each other feedback for improvement... what do we need to do differently?

[Adel]

thanks for the feedback. now i have a couple of open setups that I'll want to run as theme games

back to the drawing board....

Day Masons!

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Day Mason
1 Day Mason (his partner is the Mafia Mason)
2 Day Masons
2 Townies

7 players, Day Start

[Adel]

Smallest Mafia

1 Mafia Goon
2 Townies

Day Start.

[Adel]

Scary

Mafia

3 1-shot SKs
2 Mafia Goons
7 Townies

Daystart

[Adel]

East County Mafia

4 Mafia Goons
3 Cops
1 One-Shot Day Vig
4 Townies

Daystart

[Adel]

The cops are all sane.

Mith: while the variance is large, wouldn't the results of cop investigations tend to balance out, making the game a little less "swingy" than a typical mini normal where the town plays "follow the cop"? I put the vig in to make the game a little more swingy than it would otherwise be. I have high hopes for this game being fun to play.

[Adel]

supposing a mass claim occurs day 1, how many players would claim to be cops?

possible results of an enforced mass claim:

a. 2 players claim to be cops. one cop lies and says he is a townie.
b. 3 players claim to be cops. only cops claim
c. 4 players claim to be cops. 3 cops + 1 scum claim to be cops
d. 5 players claim to be cops. 3 cops + 1 scum + 1 day vig claim to be cops
e. 6 players claim to be cops. 3 cops + 1 scum + 1 day vig + 1 idiot townie claim to be cops

so even if a mass claim were to occur, I feel that the results of the mass claim are unpredictible enough to be interesting.

why don't i understand about your objection to my setup?

[Adel]

Because you didn't know that I tend to hate power roles. Does it matter that I am giving criticism?

I tend to view criticism as a doorway to improvement. For me, part of the creative process is to

listen

to criticism.

Mr Flay: why don't you consider it to be Mafia? There is an informed minority, and confusion about who is which role.

Would you prefer 1 cop, 1 doc and 3 goons? I wouldn't.

[Adel]

405 Mafia

4 Mafia Goons
2 Doctors
6 Commuters

Day Start

[Adel]

Of course, I wouldn't prefer 1 cop, 1 doc and 3 goons because that's already game over and unbalanced. And if we put in 4 townies (as I assume that's what you're going for) then no I don't like that. I don't think it's well balanced. 6 vs 3 even with power roles would only require two mislynches to lose.

I meant in a 12 player open mini.

[Adel]

sometimes i think i may need to create an alt for submitting ideas to this thread.

[Adel]

adel: here is a setup I put a bunch of time into
other scummer: it won't work due to mass claim.
adell (in head): wtf? did that other scummer really even take the time to analyse my setup?

I'm assuming the game is named after the bane of Southern California: the 405 freeway. (An aptly named highway, since it'll take you "4 Or 5" hours to get where you want to go. )

correct- and you'll probably need a couple of doctors along the way

[Adel]

2 doctors + mass claim does not = broken setup for town.

day 1: 2 doctors and 1 scum claim doctor
night 1: scum have 50% chance to kill one doctor, same as any commuter

there are two doctors to help balance the 4 goons. the idea i'm chasing is balanced 12 player open mini's with 4 goons and no doc + cop combo

I like the commuters versus scum idea, though; perhaps 3 scum versus 6 commuters?

i didn't give your sugeestion a fair amount of attention. that makes me a hypocrite

i do like

3 Mafia Goons
6 Commuters

[Adel]

Daytalk 10

3 scum
7 town

private communication is allowed by all players.

Love it!

nominate Daytalk 10

is it is illegal to fake PMs from other players?


could there be a requirement to cc the mod for all daytime PM's? then the mod could cut and paste off the the PM's into the thread after the game is complete- that would make for some really interesting reading even if it would be a lot of extra work.

[Adel]

And comments on Night Start Texas Justice?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5501

is a Texas Justice game run by IH, with 9 1-shot vigs and 3 goons

the town won easily.

the potential problem with a night start is that many of the players may choose to use their 1-shot night 0- which would reduce the game to a die throw. a very swingy result.

i don't see any clear advantage to having a night start that would compensate for this potential problem. I considered making night 0 bullets only 50% successful, and a couple of other tweaks, but I don't see a clear solution.

balance wise, i think it shifts the odds in the favor of the scum.

[Adel]

if you want to shift the balance in favor of scum, add more scum or reduce the number of townies. the most simple solution often works the best.

would this setup yield play closer to what you would prefer?

Texas Rangers

2 Mafia Goons
2 1-Shot Day-Kill Mafia Gunmen
4 1-Shot Day Vigs
1 2-Shot Day Vig (can use both shots in the same day)
2 Cops

Night Start

[Adel]

Does a daykill end the day?

nope.

[Adel]

I don't like this. The town can win at 2 scum, 2 town

and

2 scum, 1 town given the right circumstances. And those cops make "the right circumstances" pretty easy.

It is part of the flavor.
In Texas the good guys can still win when they are outnumbered. Didn't you ever watch

Walker, Texas Ranger

.

[Adel]

what makes my setup fail the Mafia Purity Test?

[Adel]

nominate: Cromwell I Mafia

'cause I'm a sucker for history, and I would really really enjoy playing in this game. It would be all about having the ear of the king

[Adel]

why not run it in scumchat with quoting being against the rules? pretty much the same thing from where I sit.

[Adel]

Thin_Man speaks true words.

[Adel]

Hollywood Mafia

3 Mafia Gunmen (each has an individual NK)
3 Doctors (each can protect against 1 NK a night)
1 Tracker
1 Roleblocker
4 Townies

Daystart

[Adel]

hmmm...

Hollywood Mafia 1.2

3 Mafia Gunmen (each has an individual NK)
3 Mason-Doctors (each can protect against 1 NK a night)
1 Tracker
1 Roleblocker
4 Townies

Daystart

Hollywood Mafia 1.3

3 Mafia Gunmen (each has an individual NK)
3 Doctors (each can protect against 1 NK a night)
1 Tracker-Mason
1 Roleblocker-Mason
4 Townies

Daystart

East Hollywood Mafia

3 Mafia Gunmen (each has an individual NK)
3 Doctors (each can protect against 1 NK a night)
3 Mason/Roleblockers
3 Townies

Daystart

[Adel]

suggested rule:
"Players must either

vote

,

unvote

, or confirm their vote every 48 hours in the game thread, or face replacement. Prior permission to miss a post will be granted if that player requests it

in the game thread

".

i love this idea, and I really want to see some version of it make it to primetime. i do not, however, like open games which have a random element for role assignments.

[Adel]

SK Collective

4 SK Collective members, each with 1 NK a night.
7 Townies
2 Trackers
2 Doctors, each can protect against 1 NK a night. Can self-protect twice.

Day Start

Each SK has the win condition: "You win if you survive, and/or if

two

SK's survive the endgame."
Each SK knows the names of the other SK's, but they are

not

allowed to communicate outside of the game thread at any time.


I assume the balance needs to be tweaked.

[Adel]

why have a random element in the role assignments?

[Adel]

Mountainous multiball?

Two groups of 2 scum each
8 VT

would you consider giving each scum group 1 cross-kill immunity?

[Adel]

Try to follow the cop on these windy Mountainous roads

1 Godfather
2 Mafia Roleblockers
1 Cop
1 Deputy Cop
1 Deputy-Deputy Cop (Becomes a Deputy Cop if the Deputy Cop dies, or is promoted to Cop)
2 Millers
1 Townie who knows who the Deputy is
1 Townie who the Deputy-Deputy is
2 Townies

Daystart

[Adel]

The millers know they are millers, and the deputies know they are deputies. I tried to evaluate if a day 1 massclaim would break, but my sense is that a day 1 mass claim would never happen even if it

would

break the setup. Trying to get a cop and backup cop to claim when there is no doc would be very hard, and it would take a brave townie to suggest it.

[Adel]

I really don't see it working that way. Perhaps if a crypto-claim system were used...
2:10 is the Mountainous balance.
Scum would have thier choice to claim: the cop, the two townies, the two millers, and the deputy confirmer of any deputy that claimed before them.

[Adel]

say... what if the cops didn't know if they were the Cop or the Deputy Cop or the Deputy-Deputy Cop?

[Adel]

mafia of the lost

1 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Roleblockers
2 Shadows (hides behind another target player, if that player is Nk'd so is the Shadow)
2 Trackers (learns the name of the player targeted by target player)
1 Doctor
4 Townies

The first member of the Mafia to PM the mod with the target for the NK is the one who makes the kill. If the Mafia roleblocker makes the kill, and targets a player to block, a watching tracker will receive the names of both targeted players. If a roleblocker targets a tracker, then the result of the tracker's investigation will be "no player targeted". If a tracker targets a role blocked by a roleblocker, his investigation will still accurately name the player targeted.

[Adel]

yep.

[Adel]

Double Jester Mafia

3 Goons
2 Jesters
1 Cop
6 Townies

The first Jester to get lynched wins. If the second Jester is still alive at that point, his role and win condition reverts to that of a vanilla townie.

[Adel]

The cop gets an "innocent" on the Jesters.

If I added a second cop, I would be tempted to make the cops get "guilty" reads on the Jesters. What do you think of that idea?

[Adel]

Double Jester Mafia 1.1

3 Goons
2 Jesters
1 Cop
6 Townies

The first Jester to get lynched wins. If the second Jester is still alive at that point, his role and win condition reverts to that of a vanilla townie and he is no longer a Jester.

If any members of the mafia are on the wagon that lynches a Jester, they lose their NK the following night.

[Adel]

it is possible for one of the Jesters to win by getting lynched in the same game the mafia wins;
it is possible for both of the jesters to lose by getting nk'd in a game where either the mafia or the town wins;
it is possible for both of the jester to lose if neither gets lynched and the town wins, ect.. multiple and overlapping win conditions is pretty standard, just like with the lyncher role.

[Adel]

So if there IS a nightkill the night after a Jester is lynched, then the town knows that no one on the bandwagon was scum? Sounds to me like the scum shouldn't nightkill after a Jester is lynched, even if they are able to. It would give the whole show away.

and that kind of possible WIFOM gambit is why I think Jesters have a place in Open games. It leads to interesting play. It should also make it harder for the jester to get lynched, and harder for Vis to get lynched, and it should force the mafia to chase hard targets.

[Adel]

it is a co-winner thing, there is no second place.

[Adel]

I don't like the Sk being immune to investigations in the Copper setup.

[Adel]

Where's the Vanilla?

2 Mafia Roleblockers
1 Mafia Godfather
2 Serial killers
2 Doctors
1 Cop
2 Roleblockers

Daystart

A role-blocked Roleblocker will not role-block his target.
A lone surviving mafia roleblocker can both kill and roleblock.
Two surviving mafia roleblockers can together block two targets, and kill one.

[Adel]

Mountainous multiball?

Two groups of 2 scum each
8 VT

just to make sure I understand this setup correctly:

Mountainous Multiball

2 Goons, Mafia A
2 Goons, Mafia B
8 Townies

Daystart

No-cross kill protection allowed.
~~~


did I get it right?

[Adel]

Can anyone either quote or link me to "mountainous multiball?"

it is taking signups now right here
the setup up is here

* 8 Vanilla Townies
* 2 Members of Mafia Group A
* 2 Members of Mafia Group B

_{um... and I'm the Mod...}

[Adel]

Why multiball? What does that imply?

there is more than one scumgroup. nothing more. it sounds pretty flashy though.

Also Cross-Kills?

none.

[Adel]

Remove the cop and I'll nominate it. If you make the cop a tracker, you should also make one of the goons a mafia roleblocker.

[Adel]

I don't like random role assignments, and I like scum-pick role assignments even less.

The no night action mechanic seems interesting enough that I want to get some sort of set-up out of it.

The Cop role should not be used unless there is both a townie roleblocker as well as a mafia roleblocker.

Wine for Kelly Chen

2 Mafia Gunmen (Each has a Nk)
2 Mafia Roleblocker
2 Doctors (Can each protect against one Nk each night)
1 Cop
2 Roleblockers
2 Bastard-Mod Townie/Cops (told that they are Cops, but are really innocent townies)
1 Bastard-Mod Townie/Doc (told that they are Doctors but are really innocent townies)
1 Bastard-Mod Townie/RB (told that they are Roleblockers but are really innocent townies)

Day Start

Notes:
1. Each Mafia Gunman gets his own separate Nk, these are the only way the mafia has of killing at night.
2. Each night the mafia (by majority vote via PM to the Mod) can elect for there to be no night actions. In the rare event of a split vote (50-50), the first to the post (50%) wins.

[Adel]

Why is 12 better than 13?

I like the have equal numbers of players who think they are cops, docs, and RB's.

Also, Kelly Chen is bound to ask, "What if there is a Mass Claim?" and if there is a mass claim the equal numbers would give the scum a little more coverage.

[Adel]

I guess you've never been in a scum group where there was some serious conflict .

[Adel]

no, just a framework for conflict resolution.

[Adel]

ABR Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Gunman (Can day-vig 1 player a day,

unlimited

three shots)
4 1-shot day-vigs
5 townies

Daystart

[Adel]

Cop-town | Miller-town

3 Mafia Goons
1 Cop
1 Deputy Cop (backup cop)
1 Junior Deputy Cop (backup deputy)
3 Millers
3 Vanilla Townies

Day Start

Note: Deputy Cop and Junior Deputy Cop receive identical role PM's, and do not know which role they fill. If the Deputy Cop dies before the Cop, the Junior Deputy Cop will become the new cop when the Cop dies.

[Adel]

When/Why would the millers claim?
I like the hidden order of deputy promotion idea. Adopted.

[Adel]

Of course they would be! Secret Millers are not normal roles.

[Adel]

a. I believe that there hasn't been an Open game with a miller yet
b. I thought the consensus was that a normal miller is told in his role pm

which assumption was I mistaken in?

[Adel]

Kelly: I'll start a thread in MD on the subject then.

[Adel]

mafia of the lost

1 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Roleblockers
2 Shadows (hides behind another target player, if that player is Nk'd so is the Shadow)
2 Trackers (learns the name of the player targeted by target player)
1 Doctor
4 Townies

The first member of the Mafia to PM the mod with the target for the NK is the one who makes the kill. If the Mafia roleblocker makes the kill, and targets a player to block, a watching tracker will receive the names of both targeted players. If a roleblocker targets a tracker, then the result of the tracker's investigation will be "no player targeted". If a tracker targets a role blocked by a roleblocker, his investigation will still accurately name the player targeted.

Nominate Adel's Mafia of the Lost

Best setup by Adel, I'd like to play it.

Nominate Vengeful

Nominate Jester mafai

Lets get some in the thread.

will this get a second?

[Adel]

Speed Mafia

1 Kill-Immune Mafia GF
2 Mafia Goon
1 SK
8 Townies

SK can kill during the day, once each week, but can't kill at night.

/third

nominate: speed mafia

for head of the line privileges. It is speedy, so it should go first.

[Adel]

I think each week that it takes to get the game started the SK should get a pre-emptive kill.

Truth!

[Adel]

one player is protected at a time, but that doc can change the subject of protection once per week?

[Adel]

/second multi-quack

[Adel]

Action Movie

4 mafia goons
1 mafia godfather
3 vigs (A, B, and C)
3 cops (A, B, and C)
1 townie

Vig A and Cop A know each other's alignment.
Vig B and Cop B know each other's alignment.
Vig C and Cop C know each other's alignment.

[Adel]

the scum do have a counter.

[Adel]

or is this one better?

Paranoid Scum Mafia 2.0

3 Goons, Mafia A
3 Goons Mafia B
1 SK, member of both Mafias, traditional SK win condition, has his own NK
5 Cops

12 Players

no love? It would make for a very interesting game even with a massclaim on day 1.

[Adel]

or is this one better?

Paranoid Scum Mafia 2.0

3 Goons, Mafia A
3 Goons Mafia B
1 SK, member of both Mafias, traditional SK win condition, has his own NK
5 Cops

12 Players

no love? It would make for a very interesting game even with a massclaim on day 1.

Hmm this is intruiging since the Cops have a greater than 50% chance of guilty but they don't have the voting block to get anyone lynched it'll be interesting to see how they handle their roles. I like the idea of scum aligned SK's. Can the SK perform both the mafia NK and the SK NK because that could be a simple way for the mafia to weed out who the SK is. Also can someone run the odds of this ending in a draw/scorched earth. Not sure if it matters, but I know some people don't like it when nobody wins.

Also night or daystart?

daystart. Yes, any member of the mafia can commit the NK, including the Sk. It is possible for the SK to target three players in one night for kills.

[Adel]

Other Jester Mafia

2 scum jesters
2 town jesters
4 townies

Nightless. Town wins if the 2 town jesters are lynched and scum wins if both of them are lynched.

it is like a slow race to see who can be the last to the finish line.

[Adel]

nominate: mountainous multiball

the fist run of it was fun to watch, but shouldn't really count as a test of the set up.

[Adel]

daytalk12 2.0
2 mafia goons
1 mafia godfather (investigation immune, chooses who performs the nk)
1 cop
1 tracker
7 townies

any living player can communicate with any other living player during the day

[Adel]

daytalk12 2.0
2 mafia goons
1 mafia godfather (investigation immune, chooses who performs the nk)
1 cop
1 tracker
7 townies

any living player can communicate with any other living player during the day

The cop will be overpowered, since he can share all of his results with each player he finds innocent. I don't think the presence of the godfather is enough to shut down that strategy.

the scum can talk during the day.

[Adel]

mostly cupid

4 Mafia A Goons
4 Mafia B Goons
14 Townies

Night Start.

The first two players killed, by any means, become a Cupid.
Cupids pick players on a first-come, first-served basis.
Cupids win together, and receive their role PM at the same time.

~ expect to see players normally burdened by proficiency

all stay alive

until at least day 2.

the original role idea is from windkirby

Cupid role PM

Congrats, you were killed. Now your spirit has emerged from your corpse and you are a

Cupid

along with

player xxxx

. You win as a team.

Normally you are only allowed to communicate with

player xxxx

in the game thread, but send me one PM and I'll forward it on to

player xxxx

. Even though you are dead you can sill post in the game thread like all of the living players.


Each cupid picks two names. Send me your choice of two other players by

time, date -- about four days later

. If either of your choices was chosen by the other cupid or is that other cupid, I'll ask you to send me a replacement name. If you do not meet the deadline you

lose your move

and will not get to pick players.

If either the players you choose or the players the other cupid chooses win,

you win!

Each player you pick becomes a

Sick Lover

, and receives the

Sick Lover

role PM.

Sick Lover Role PM

Congrats, A

Cupid

has shot you with an arrow and made you fall in love!

You are now a

Sick Lover

with

player yyyy

!. You win if either you or

player yyyy

survive the game. You no longer win with the

former alignment

.

You are now allowed to PM

player yyyy

at night, if the game thread is locked.

If

both of you

Sick Lovers

voted for the same person when that person was lynched

then

you get to Kill a player of your collective choice the following night. Just send me the name of that player by PM before that night's deadline.

If your

Sick Lover

dies you will die from grief the following night.

[Adel]

I thought the setup was balanced as is. When you have scum basically commit suicide day 1 it can easily make the resulting play look unbalanced.

[Adel]

suicide is a little strong. In the first run of the set up one of the scum players said day 1 that he did not and would not read his role pm, and therefor had no idea if he was scum or not. He was lynched without too much difficulty.

My contention is that had the player not tried that stunt the scum would've been much more likely to win.

[Adel]

Tree Stump Semi-Reveal

3 Scum Trees
11 Town Trees

Daystart.

Alignment is not revealed when a player stumps.
Any player can stump at any time.

~~~

Tree Stump Semi-Reveal Multiball

2 Scum Trees, Grove A
2 Scum Trees, Grove B
10 Town Trees

Daystart.

Alignment is not revealed when a player stumps.
Any player can stump at any time.

[Adel]

2:16 AM

2 scum
16 town

Town gets n lynches on day n, and scum gets n kills on night n.

recipe for a lurk-fest

[Adel]

not mafia

1 sk
5 townies

[Adel]

Proof Guppy, does the SK get a NK, and who picks the mafia's nk?

[Adel]

does anything prevent the SK from targeting another member of the mafia with the mafis's NK?

[Adel]

exploding hammer

3 scum
9 townies

nightless

whomever hammers dies along with the lynchee.

[Adel]

fast exploding hammer

3 scum
9 townies

nightless

whomever hammers dies along with the lynchee.

Each day will have a deadline where deadline length = # (of living players)*(1.5) in days, rounded up.
so the day one will be, at most, 18 days long. At deadline whomever has the most votes will die, along with the last person to vote for that player.

[Adel]

Mass Claim Mafia

2 Mafia Roleblockers (Can RB and Kill in the same night)
2 Mafia Goons
6 Trackers (Gets result of "Player X didn't target anyone" if roleblocked)
2 Watchers (Gets result of "Player X was not targeted by anyone" if roleblocked)

Night Start

[Adel]

Mass Claim Mafia

2 Mafia Roleblockers (Can RB and Kill in the same night)
2 Mafia Goons
6 Trackers (Gets result of "Player X didn't target anyone" if roleblocked)
2 Watchers (Gets result of "Player X was not targeted by anyone" if roleblocked)

Night Start

what about throwing in some jailkeepers?

sure, why don't you remix the setup to include some? I like a little back and forth in designing setups.

[Adel]

LDS Mafia

aka lynch the polygamists mafia

3 scum lovers
8 townie lovers

All players are lovers.
One set of lovers is a set of three, and is scum.
No other roles are used.
The scum do not have a nk.

(should it just be six townie lovers?)

[Adel]

1 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Roleblockers
2 Jailkeepers
3 Trackers
2 Watchers
1 Lazy Tracker (always gets no result)
1 Blind Watcher (always gets no result)

Roleblock>Jailkeep>investigation>Kill

Think this has too much going on

I can't compute balance: too much is going on.

I guess we will just have to run it to see what happens!

[Adel]

lol at Adel as well.

I miss Kelly Chen and her standard "broken by mass claim" posts. At least Guardian is keeping her spirit alive!

LDS Mafia

aka lynch the polygamists mafia

4 scum lovers
8 townie lovers

All players are lovers.
One set of lovers is a set of

three

four

, and is scum.
No other roles are used.
The scum do not have a nk.

This would be a short game, and I think that would be its appeal.

[Adel]

SL nailed it. Plus 2 lovers does not equal polygamy.

[Adel]

Also in a four player scum tean chances are they will have one idiot on their team that they will have to somehow cover for. They won't be able to bus him. In the two scum version one idot wrecks the game, and no idiots makes it really hard for the town. The four-player team should yeild a less swingy game.

[Adel]

the idea for a game I was originally going with for Mass Claim was for thhere to be an early Mass Claim followed by the mafia role-blockers trying to choose their targets to make a townie look like a liar.

Also, LSD Mafia? Am I tripping?

[Adel]

LSD Mafia

1 Mafia Busdriver
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Roleblocker
6 Busdrivers

[Adel]

LSD Mafia

1 Mafia Busdriver
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
3 Trackers
1 Doctor
1 Roleblocker
4 Busdrivers

[Adel]

LSD Mafia

2 Mafia Busdrivers
1 Mafia Roleblocker
3 Trackers
2 Roleblockers
5 Busdrivers

[Adel]

Why do you like jailkeepers?

What happens when a Jailkeeper targets a jailkeeper?

[Adel]

Are they both protected from night kills? (which is what I was getting at)

[Adel]

If Mafia targets the doctor, the doctor kills the Mafia member.

sounds like a new role, but one that I'm interested in.

what an awesome fakeclaim that would be to have in the meta.

[Adel]

Friends, Friends and Enemies
2xMasons A
2xMasons B
4xMafia Goons
4/6xTownies

I like this, but I think the numbers are wrong. Heck, I'd like to see a Large game with 2 mason groups, a mafia group, a werewolf group, and townies. What would the ideal numbers on that be?

I'll give it a shot:

3 Mafia Goons
3 Werewolves
2 Masons A
2 Masons B
4 Townies

Daystart

[Adel]

F11

F11 is the latest experimental Newbie Setup, trying to address flaws in previous setups. It is also the first official 9-player newbie setup, excepting Newbie Game 69.

It consists of four variations, chosen at random (the name comes from the binary expression of these four options, similar to C9):

1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies.
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townies.
The first game to attempt this setup is Newbie Game 576.

X Mafia
X Mason-Cops(Collectively have one investigation, guranteed innocence)
Y Townies

Mafia win if all cops are dead.

I was thinking a 2-2-5 distribution for a small game, maybe 3-3-7 for a medium and 4-4-9 for large.

I also like this - the 3-3-7 group looks good to me, what do you all think?

3-3-5 seems mroe balanced to me.
The mason/cops are all confirmed innocent, as is each townie they investigate.

[Adel]

yay, Polygamist Mafia is in the queue now!

[Adel]

Polygamist Mafia 2.0

3 Mafia Goons, 8 Vanilla Townies

Every player may choose to fall in love with another player during the night, making the player and his or her target effectively lovers. All players can have multiple lovers. Day start.

It's probably broken, too.

that could lead to some really bizarre play, like a townie playing to get lynched because she is convinced that she correctly picked a goon to be lovers with.

[Adel]

Polygamist Mafia 2.0

4 Mafia Goons
13 Vanilla Townies

Day start.

Every player

must

choose to fall in love with another player during the night, making the player and his or her target effectively lovers until the end of the following day. Not submitting a choice for lover results in a random lover selection. Multiple players may be killed in a lover chain reaction. Initial lover choice is made during pre-game.

note: I increased the number of players so that it wouldn't be over after one lynch and one nk. The pre-game lover choice will make day 1 claims interesting. No-one will choose to lynch a really popular lover

[Adel]

I can't think of a name for this setup that is both amusing and inoffensive Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather/Treacherous Lover
2 Lover Cops
1 Lover Cop in love with Godfather
n Townies

Night Start

[Adel]

'k -- I was just going off of Cogito Ergo Scum's suggestion.

[Adel]

I don't see much danger of that. I've been involved in crafting over a hundred setup ideas in the thread, and 2 have been selected so far.

[Adel]

I can't think of a name for this setup that is both amusing and inoffensive Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather/Treacherous Lover
2 Lover Cops
1 Lover Cop in love with Godfather
n Townies

Night Start

Nominate

Seconded.

how many tonwies should this game have? 5?

Keep in mind that each cop a his own investigation.

Upon second thought, I think this game should be a cop head-start day start game rather than a Night start game.

~~~

I'm starting to prefer the idea of allowing scum groups, masons, and lovers to have quicktopic threads they can use during the day. It allows for quicker night cycles that disrupt the pace of the game less.

[Adel]

Mayo Clinic Mafia

2 Mafia Doctors
1 Mafia Goon
6 Doctors
2 Compulsive Vigs
1 Compulsive Sk

Mafia Doctors can protect a player the same night they preform a kill. Compulsive Vigs and the Compulsive SK must kill each night. Each doctor only protects against a single nightkill.

This design is an attempt to ecourage active pro-town play from all players. Lurkers will not draw multipule doctor protections, and will be far more likely to die each night.

[Adel]

Mayo Clinic Mafia

2 Mafia Doctors
1 Mafia Goon
6 Doctors
2 Compulsive Vigs
1 Compulsive Sk

Looks like fun, but you might tone down the number of Docs?

2 Mafia Docs will circle protect each night and are thus a NK immune pair until one gets lynched. Don't know if that was by design.

Also how does an early Massclaim effect the Compuslive Killers. Seems a decent town strat would be to have the vigs claim D1 so some Docs can protect them. This also give a 1/3 chance of knowing the SK as Compulsive Vig would be his likely safe claim.

What about removing the SK, two protown Docs and a Mafia Doc?

Each doc protect only protects against a single NK attempt. With 4 NKs a night a single player will need double protection to prevent a nk in many cases. I don't see a massclaim really resolving anything until at least the third day.

[Adel]

Polygamist Mafia should be run again.

[Adel]

seems too random to me. is it nightless? should the mafia and lover be able to day talk?

how about a larger version,

Lover Multiball

2 groups of 2 Lover Goons, Mafia A (4)
2 groups of 2 Lover Goons, Mafia B (4)
8 groups of 2 Townie Lovers (16)

should it be nightless with daytalking?

[Adel]

When you say daytalking do you mean between lover's or anyone can talk to anyone?

Not so fond of multiple scum groups myself.

between lovers, probably via quicktopic
with it being a nightless game cross kills aren't going to be a swingy problem

[Adel]

Big Love sucked. Please don't nominate it.

[Adel]

Polygamist filled up

way

too fast.

Thesp, can you throw a another one in the queue? I didn't get a chance to /in for it.

[Adel]

an "everyone dies" happily ever after isn't nearly as bad as a no-lynch:no-NK:no-lynch one.

[Adel]

Lover Multiball

2 groups of 2 Lover Goons, Mafia A (4)
2 groups of 2 Lover Goons, Mafia B (4)
8 groups of 2 Townie Lovers (16)

should it be nightless with daytalking?

Nominate

and yes

Second!

Third

I wonder if Thesp remembers this

*hint*hint*

[Adel]

Trendy and Subversive C9- B is awesome.

nominate

with head of the queue preference.

[Adel]

swingy, powerrole heavy madness with bizzare massclaim results:

Gun Show Mafia

50% Chance of setup being:

1 Godfather (can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia, can kill with his knife)
1 SK (can kill with a gun or a knife, immune to cop investigation, immune to NK)
1 Gun Collector
1 Cop (confirmed sane, has a gun, investigates mafia)
1 Gunsmith (also has a gun and doesn't use it)
1 Miller
4 Townies

day start

50% Chance of setup being:

1 Godfather (mafia A, can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (mafia A, can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia A, can kill with his knife)
1 Godfather (mafia B, can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (mafia B, can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia B, can kill with his knife)
2 Gunsmiths (has a gun, doesn't use it)
4 Townies

day start

edit: fixed by shaft.ed's suggestion in the next post.

[Adel]

you are right, of course, so I fixed it.

[Adel]

50% Chance of setup being:
1 Godfather (can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia, can kill with his knife)
1 SK (can kill with a gun or a knife, immune to cop investigation, immune to NK)
1 Gun Collector
1 Cop (confirmed sane, has a gun, investigates mafia)
1 Gunsmith (also has a gun and doesn't use it)
1 Miller
4 Townies

day start

50% Chance of setup being:
1 Godfather (mafia A, can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (mafia A, can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia A, can kill with his knife)
1 Godfather (mafia B, can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (mafia B, can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia B, can kill with his knife)
2 Gunsmiths (has a gun, doesn't use it)
4 Townies

day start

What would a miller do? Isn't a gun-collector really the miller in this game?

The Cop, Gun Collector, SK, and the Miller would be the only ones to know which setup it is. The Gun Collector gives a false positive to the gunsmith, and the miller gives a false positive to the Cop. In the second setup the Gunsmiths give false positive to each other. Both setups are exporations of how to include two nerfed investigative roles in a 12 player game.

[Adel]

not mafia

1 sk
5 townies

Serial Killer:

1 Serial Killer
1 Doctor
7 Townies

Very very random. SK has no tells except Doc-hunting.

and it is pretty much not mafia.