[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[yellowbounder]

Freelancer Mafia

3 SK (immune to nightkills)
12 Townies

Each SK gets a NK per night, but if he targets a fellow SK, the kill fails.

I'm not sure if the number of townies is exactly right, so feel free to correct me.

[yellowbounder]

That's why I thought the townie number wasn't enough, I was originally thinking of 15.

The point is that SKs can work out who the other SKs are if a kill attempt fails, and try to get them lynched.

I mean take 15:3
Day 1, 14:3
Night 1, 11:3
Day 2, 11:2
Night 2, 9:2
Day 3, 8:2
Night 3, 7:2

Well, trying to suggest a possible probability is difficult, so this really needs to be playtested. Assuming that townies lynch themselves, and SK always kill townies each, the town loses, at the start of Day 4. Assuming a SK is lynched each day, the town wins at the end of Day 3. Of course, there's a lot ot ifs in there, but I think possibly 15:3 might be do-able, of course I could be wrong.

[yellowbounder]

Doctors kind of spoils the fun. What I really wanted was multiple SK vs. townies, without the risk of NK for the SKs.

And you could say that there are no draws, if it ends with SK-SK, then both of them lose. The win condition states that you are the only one alive in endgame. You are not the only one alive, thus lost.
In theory, the SKs would then try to make sure that there's no competition in end game, while keeping their competitors alive for as long as nessercary, so they kill a few extra townies.

In my mind, the first few days for a SK is: SK+Town vs. Other SKs, and then the SK would turn to more must get townies lynched tactics. Of course, I've never won a Best SK scummie. Ask one of those guys if this setup is feasable.

[yellowbounder]

Should someone, (probably me) playtest this? (Assuming that playtest means I get a bunch of people to play it to see how balanced it is, and adjusting accordingly?)

[yellowbounder]

Lynchworthy Mafia

3 townies (one of which randomly chosen, is a Lynchee)
1 lyncher (knows the Lynchee)
1 jester

Only one day of lynching. So a townie lynch = everyone loses, jester kill = jester wins, lynchee lych = lyncher wins, lyncher lynch = townies win

Possibly a little complicated, and definitely non standard.

I like CBD9, guarrantees a powerole for the town, while leaving scum role claims open, and relying on a lot of mafia hunting skills. And is cop guarranteed sanity?

[yellowbounder]

It's only 1/18 chance of two cops. I'd say that's unlikely enough.
There's an equal chance of two doctors, and that's broken as well.

[yellowbounder]

Assasination Mafia

Okay, this is very experimental.

4 Mafia
7 Paranoid Gun Owners (if targetted by scum, they die, and kill scum in process)
1 Target (ordinary vanilla)

No one knows who the Target is, except the target. The mafia wins if the target is killed, the town wins if all scum are killed.

May need a bit of tweaking.

[yellowbounder]

Sort of, the idea is that the mafia can't randomly wave NKs around, because then they'll die, but the town can't lynch the target either, so they have to tread carefully.

It probably does need a bit of tweaking, possibly with some more powerroles or something along those lines.

[yellowbounder]

I suppose we could sprinkle in a SK that isn't affected by the Paranoid Gun Owners. But if he kills the target, then only he wins.

[yellowbounder]

Okay, new idea.

3 Mafia
1 SK (both SK and mafia want to kill Targets)
3 Targets (vanilla)
7 Paranoid Gun Owners
2 Cops (killed like mafia if target PGO)

The game ends when either the mafia and the SK are dead, (for town win), or when three targets are dead (and who ever killed the most, either mafia or SK wins).

Thoughts?

[yellowbounder]

Okay, I'm renaming it

Target Mafia

Here are a list of ideas some of which may or may not work, discuss and discard at leisure.

Make most recent vote on lynched target count. ie. if the SK or Mafia hamma, they get the vote. This casts suspition on people who are the last to jump on, so it's points for their team.

Make least recent vote, ie. the first vote by scum or SK counts that it's their kill.

Give Targetees a vengeful vig on lynch.

Add in a Jester (who's win condition is to die before the end of the game), where if lynched or killed, which ever team claimed the kill, that's -1 point. So, the town can lynch a Jester without risk, since it doesn't interfere with the town's win condition. Or it could be an ordinary townie that knows he's an Anti-Target.

[yellowbounder]

Two Mesons and a Quark Mafia

(Title is a particle physics joke, refering to target, and antitarget pair. It's a working title obviously.)

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Investigator (returns either Target, or Non-Target, gets Target when Antitarget is selected, investigating does not trigger PGO action)
1 SK (both SK and mafia want to kill Targets, also has investigation ability, like MI)
3 Targets (vanilla)
2 Antitargets (vanilla)
7 Paranoid Gun Owners
2 Cops (killed like mafia if target PGO, gets either Antitarget, Target, Mafia or SK)

Killing a Target gains a point for your team, killing an Antitarget loses a point for your team. If lynched, then the most recent vote from scum group claims the kill. So, if the SK hammered the Target, then it's his kill. If he hammered the antitarget, then it's still his kill, just he loses a point.

The mafia and SK can now know who a possible target is, but they cannot tell the difference, there cannot be a draw through lynching, the town has two powerful cops, but there's still the eternal risk of tripping over the PGOs. Comments welcome.

[yellowbounder]

Mini Two Mesons and a Quark Mafia

2 Mafia
1 SK
1 Target
1 Antitarget
2 Townies
3 Vengeful Italians (if killed by mafia, then mafia dies as well, doesn't kill SK)

Both Mafia and SK can investigate instead of kill. The first time they target someone, they get Target or Not Target.
If they investigate a second time, they get either Target or Antitarget.
Or they can have a normal kill. They can't do both at night.

One of the townies knows who the Antitarget is.

If the Target is lynched, then the town lose, and who which ever scum team has more people wins, with ties going to the SK. If the Antitarget is lynched, then nothing happens.

If the Target is NKed, the team that kills wins. If the Antitarget is NKed, then the targetting team loses, and dies instantly. (The Antitarget is killed in the process.)

This is smaller, and less complicated. What do you guys think?

[yellowbounder]

Yeah, miller in an open game is kind of wierd.

Although it leaves interesting thoughts open for a counterclaiming miller. Both could be scum. Leaving it open for a countercounterclaim.

[yellowbounder]

CDB9

2 Mafia
1 Cop/Doctor/Roleblocker (equal chance)
1 [1 of Cop/Doctor/Roleblocker, random]/Townie (equal chance)
3 Townies

Nominate this one.

[yellowbounder]

Okay, if you made it two naive doctors, so if the scum claim poisoned, and the doctor targets them, they die. Maybe three doctors? No, probably not. It depends on what is balanced, but I think making the doctors die on mafia contact lends a nice stragegy.

[yellowbounder]

Communication Mafia

3 Mafia (with Mason investigation)
2 Day Masons
2 Night Masons
2 Anytime Masons
3 Townies

Your Masonbuddy is definitely innocent.

Communication and coordination. The mason pairs can talk during their time period, while the Mafia can only talk at night. The mafia submit an additional name, different to their night kill, and are then told that person's mason buddy.

Thoughts?

[yellowbounder]

Okay, how about:

3 Mafia (with Mason investigation)
1 SK (with Mason investigation)
2 Day Masons
2 Night Masons
2 Anytime Masons
2 Townies

Throw in an SK, should increase kill count, balanced?

[yellowbounder]

How about the scum can mason kill? As in, they submit two names, and if they are mason pairs, then both die, if they aren't a mason pair, then the kill fails? Or they can ordinary kill. So, it's a prevention for each pair to claim at once.

[yellowbounder]

3 sinners (normal scum)
1 devil (doesn't know who the sinners are and vice versa, immune to cop, each night can check someone to see if they are a powerole or not. Wins with sinners.)
1 cop (finds sinners)
1 doc
1 bishop (like a governor, also can give a 1 shot double lynch)
5 townies

Maybe a bit deviant, but if it's considered approved, I'd

second

that nomination. It's a nice setup, even if I didn't play in it last time (I got replaced, like in page 3).

And we do need something for the Open Game Queue.

[yellowbounder]

Aimee er.... Currently Unnamed Setup

1 Mafia Goon*
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Faith Healer
1 Watcher
5 Townies

*Goon obviously performs the Mafia nightkill.

Nominate this as well

I like it. Gut feeling.

Although, can the Mafia RB NK if the Mafia Goon is lynched.

[yellowbounder]

Aimee er.... Currently Unnamed Setup

1 Mafia Goon*
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Faith Healer
1 Watcher
5 Townies

*Goon obviously performs the Mafia nightkill.

I think that the Faith Healer, and the RB are a bit harsh in concert.

So either:

2 Goon
1 Faith Healer
1 Watcher
5 Townies

Or:

1 Goon (can only kill)
1 RB (who can kill, or RB)
1 Doctor
1 Watcher
5 Townies

The mafia only one kill per night, and so on.

[yellowbounder]

Have we considered some of the Micro setups? (Now determined to call all 5 player setups Micro)

Like Lyncher/Lynchee +- Mafia? I know these are normally scumchat setups, but would they work in forum?

[yellowbounder]

Fire and Ice Mafia

1 Arsonist (that's a SK variation for you people out there)
1 Frostbiter (like Arsonist, but freezes victim to death)
1 Firefighter (only protects against Arsonist)
1 Thermoser (only protects against Frostbiter)
1 Doctor (protects against both)
4 Townies

The doctor protects against two attack attempts (since he protects against fire and ice).

Making the SKs immune to the other's NK would cause an interesting result, as one cannot be sure whether it was an SK, or there was a successfull protection.

Thoughts?

[yellowbounder]

Thermoser, is reference to having a Thermos Flask -> hot chocolate.
I was thinking of crosskill -> no effect, but this is a small game, and thus crosskill is mildly likely, and would seriously disadvantage the SKs.

[yellowbounder]

I'd like to see a few more C9+2 run (2 scum, 0 or 1 cops, 0 or 1 docs, 5-7 townies, 9 total players).

Only two scum? I know this is obvious, but that's just C9 with two extra townies. Is that balanced? And if it is balanced, how is ordinary C9 balanced?

I mean, C9 games are very mafia, (possibly even

the

mafia setup, if one exists), but is adding two townies balanced, (I'm thinking about the scum here)?

[yellowbounder]

And

Nominate Fire and Ice Mafia

since I'm not sure that preposing a setup means that you've nominated it.

[yellowbounder]

Awww, you took away the arsonist. But I have no objection to this new setup, although I'm not nominating it, since I prefer the old one.

[yellowbounder]

Well, I like SKs, but I suppose a Mafia spin off would be fine.

[yellowbounder]

On a completely unrelated note:

Are Open Games hated or something?

The Open Game queue is rather quiet. Is that because most players stay away or something, or do people dislike Open format? I think it's rather inactive compared to the sheer speed that the Mini queues have.

[yellowbounder]

Wow, I have to say that the doc claiming does not mean instant death, which of course opens a whole host of mafia claiming tactics.

I still like Fire and Ice v1 though. Maybe you could give the Firefighter/Thermoser the abilities of a watcher as well as protecting?

[yellowbounder]

It occurred to me a quite interesting mechanic that could be used. It's certainly a deviation, and definitely needs balance.

Double Day Mafia

12 Townies
4 Mafia

Two lynches per day, alignment reveal immediately after lynch, one mafia kill per night. Simple.

[yellowbounder]

If we're nominating own setups...

Nominate Pick Your Poison

3 Scum
2 powerroles (Cop, Doc or RB)
7 townies

Scum picks which two powerroles they'd like.

I liked my 12-player variant better.

It's like UPick a bit, isn't it? Interesting, but it could give the scum a certain edge. Not to mention that there's the whole issue of RB vs. Scum (ie, do you pick a guy to perform the kill, and he's blocked).

Maybe it could be better if the scum could pick roles from a collection of pairs. Like (Tracker&Watcher, Cop&Doc, RB&Vig, Masons) or something.

[yellowbounder]

Um... yeah.

Nominate Double Day Mafia

[yellowbounder]

(^)

That's a heart by the way.

[yellowbounder]

One thing that I notice, is that the more games you play, and the more setups you make, I personally find myself drawn towards simplicity.

[yellowbounder]

If we've got Vengeful, why not

Lyncher

1 Lyncher
4 Townies, one of which is unknowingly the Lynchee

or

Lyncher + Mafia

1 Lyncher
3 Townies, one of which is unknowingly the Lynchee
1 Mafia

Of course, it might be an idea to expand that.

Expanded Lyncher Mafia

2 Lyncher Scum (no NK, talk at night, must lynch lynchee)
2 Mafia (NK, talk at night, wipe out everyone else)
6 Townies (one of which is unknowing the Lynchee and Bulletproof)
1 Doc

And any thoughts on

Double Day Mafia

?

[yellowbounder]

If you're talking about 4:12 for Double Day, 75% sounds rather a lot.

Am I right in guessing that this could be affected by the strength of the town, since they are in effect, all Commuters?

[yellowbounder]

Okay, then with 4 scum and 12 townies,

Nominate Double Day

[yellowbounder]

Wait, so if they hit each other, then they each know the identity of an opposing member? This is like the night scene description describing how the doc tried to protect, but the roleblocker blocked him so SAMMY (townie) died, or in other words, the mod has to reveal things about the night, which makes it more obvious for the mafia.

I'm not for this "steam rising" concept, since it's only fair that the mafia have to work out who's who as well. You see, Fire and Ice v1 worked MUCH better...

[yellowbounder]

Nominate JesterMafia

7 townies
2 mafia
1 jester
Day start

Having a jester in a game is much more fun in an open setup. The jester might pretend to be scum, and vice versa. It is even more challenging for the townies, because they can't just lynch anyone who acts scummy.

Edited: 1 jester rather than 2, with 7 townies

Renominate Jester Mafia

Unless someone comes up with a better Jester setup.

[yellowbounder]

Nanodethy Mafia

6 Cops (2 sane, 3 paranoid/naive, 1 insane)
3 Millers
1 One-shot NK Vig
4 Scum

Paranoid/Naive cop sanity chosen randomly.

[yellowbounder]

2 docs target the same person: they turn into one quack.
2 cops protect the same person: they both get wrong results.
1 doc and 1 cop target same person: no results are returned, but that player becomes a death miller.

That's even more chaotic, but it'd be crazy cool fun to play.

This is practically the closest you can get to bastard moddery in an Open Game.

And now, something new:

Backstabbing Backstabbers Mafia

3 Mafia Goons (one of whom is randomly the godfather, no special powers)
1 Mafia Ursurper (no special powers)
1 Doc
7 Townies

The mafia can talk at night as normal, and the godfather sends in the kill.
The godfather is no different from any other goon, except he can only win if he is alive. (So, he's basically a mafia aligned survivor). The Ursurper can only win when the godfather is dead. (So, he's basically a mafia aligned lyncher).
The mafia do not know who the ursurper is, but know who the godfather is.

The key is here, is that the goons don't care about the ursurper's struggles, they just want to win. The godfather can send in the kill to be one of his goons, if he thinks he knows who the ursurper is, but he doesn't have to kill him, it's only the ursurper who requires the godfather's death.

A bit of a verbose explanation, I admit. And ursurper, and godfather role is revealed upon death.

Thoughts?

And I see nothing wrong with a

Nominate: Crush A

[yellowbounder]

So nominate it...

Nice weather.

[yellowbounder]

Hide and Seek Mafia

3 Mafia
6 Hiders (die if hide behind mafia, die if target is NKed)
2 Trackers

Very simple.

(And for those who don't know what a Hider is, a Hider picks a person to hide behind, and dies if that person is targeted, rather if they personally are targeted.)

This sort of reminds me of Texas, since if everyone was trigger happy, it could end the game very fast.

[yellowbounder]

Miller Miller on the Wall Mafia

1 Godfather (appears innocent)
3 Goons (appears guilty)
7 Millers (knows is miller, appears guilty)
1 Townie (knows is townie, innocent)
2 Cops (always sane, innocent)

Assuming no deaths, an innocent result will be scum 33% of the time, while a guilty result would be scum 33% of the time. So, it's less about the results, but what you do with them. The Cop isn't the be all end all, but he's not rendered useless either.

At least I think so.

[yellowbounder]

The wind whispers something about setup nomination.

[yellowbounder]

Yes, yes it is the same setup.

Has it been made before?

[yellowbounder]

What if you introduced an additional super cop, that actually got alignment results, independant of godfather/miller modications, but didn't know that he was special? So supersanity if you will?

[yellowbounder]

Miller Miller on the Wall Mafia

1 Godfather (appears innocent)
3 Goons (appears guilty)
7 Millers (knows is miller, appears guilty)
1 Townie (knows is townie, innocent)
2 Cops (always sane, innocent)

Assuming no deaths, an innocent result will be scum 33% of the time, while a guilty result would be scum 33% of the time. So, it's less about the results, but what you do with them. The Cop isn't the be all end all, but he's not rendered useless either.

At least I think so.

I think this would be more effective if the Millers thought they were townies.

Kind of ruins the point of the townie role.

[yellowbounder]

I've seen a lot of compex setups run by, several of which have been put through to the queue and run fine. I'd like to scale back the complexity, though, and return to some more elegant games - give me some I can put in signups that can be explained in one line.

I think this is just because your fingers are sore from too much coping and pasting!

Glue and rubber, unite!

[yellowbounder]

Rampage Mafia

1x 1-shot day-vig that dies upon using his ability
2x masons
3x goons
6x vanilla townies

The day kill does not end the day.

What do you think ?

Interesting.

Although I'm not one for running statistics simulations, I'd like to see that game play out, and it doesn't seem horribly unbalanced.

Like the Sacraficial Vig idea.

Nominate Rampage Mafia

[yellowbounder]

Chocolate Frappe and Strawberry Frappe look nice.

And I'll have some Blueberry pancakes with that.

Blueberry Pancakes

3 goons
1 bulletproof townie
2 masons
1 elite bodyguard
5 townies

[yellowbounder]

Well, I think Blueberry Pancakes is by far the superior.

[yellowbounder]

Chocolate Frappe and Strawberry Frappe look nice.

And I'll have some Blueberry pancakes with that.

Blueberry Pancakes

3 goons
1 bulletproof townie
2 masons
1 elite bodyguard
5 townies

I don't really like the inclusion of a bulletproof townie in this setup.

Lynchproof?

I don't see what's wrong with it. Might deny the scum a kill, so it's around the level of a slightly less powerful doctor.

So, if you call a bulletproof townie and an elite bodyguard (which is cool) worth a full doctor, then that's a Doc and a Mason pair, which is reasonable in a 9/3 game.

(Although I'm probably going to be ripped to shreds by the more experienced people, who will point out all the flaws in the agrument. Sigh. I live to make mistakes. )

PS: Wait, an elite bodyguard? That's worth more than a Doctor, since it kills scum on a successful protection. Sure it dies in the process, but it denies the mafia their kill, which is good. I think Blueberry Pancakes is balanced.

[yellowbounder]

How about giving the mafia a one sacraficial kill?

As in, they target a player, he dies, mafia member dies as well. (Regardless of bulleting, or bodyguards).

[yellowbounder]

New suggestion:

3 goons

1 bulletproof townie

1 one hit bulletproof townie
2 masons
1 elite bodyguard
5 townies

[yellowbounder]

Does the Traitor help the mafia's win condition? ie, if the mafia are dead, does the spy lose?

[yellowbounder]

Hide and Seek Mafia

3 Mafia
6 Hiders (die if hide behind mafia, die if target is NKed)
2 Trackers

Also, I'd like to run Hider Mafia, but am concerned about two things: (1) The 2 Trackers are really, really, good. Maybe

too

good. Show me I'm wrong or tweak it. (2) I'm concerned about breaking strategies where the hiders

plan

who they hide with in an attempt to hide with mafia to gt themselves killed, outing mafia in the process. Show me that this isn't conceivable, or find a way around it (allow mafia to disable killing those who visit at night?).

v2

4 Mafia [after all, most of the town has a semi sort of NK immunity]
6 Hiders
1 Tracker (finds out who X targeted)
1 Watcher (finds out who targeted Y)

v3

3 Mafia
6 Hiders
1 Paranoid Gun Owner Vig (PGO works only for Hiders)
1 Tracker
1 Watcher

v4

3 Mafia
6 Hiders
1 Tracker
1 Forensics Expert (finds out cause of death)
[in v4, the difference between a hider->mafia death, and a mafia NK is unknown (role and alignment still revealed), preventing {2}, while being a good substitute for the Tracker, but not as good, fulfilling {1}]

I like

v4

since then the town can't fully plan, and scum could claim Forensics Expert.

Nominate Hide and Seek Mafia v4

[yellowbounder]

Little Things Mafia

2 Independent Jesters (with one shot bulletproof each, knows the other's identity, wins solo)
2 Mafia A Goons
2 Mafia B Goons
1 Vig
1 Cop (gets Mafia/Not Mafia)
2 Bodyguards
7 Townies

The mafia win when everyone else is dead (including their opposing mafia), the Jester wins if he is lynched (if one is lynched, the other loses, they lose if NKed), the Town win if the Mafia are killed.

Each Jester has one attack's worth of bulletproofing, then they can be shot.

[yellowbounder]

2 Independent Jesters (with one shot bulletproof each, knows the other's identity, wins solo)

What's to stop one from claiming the other's identity, if they're about to get lynched? I don't see how that works.

Then in claiming the other's identity (through claiming Jester), they confirm themselves as a Jester, and negate all chances of winning. There is no role that knows 100% that someone is a Jester, except the two Jesters.

[yellowbounder]

I think we need to possibly slow down on the new setups, I'm certainly guilty of this, and look back through the

35 pages(!)

of this thread, for some good oldies.

Now this may be a lot of wiki work, but if we can take all of these setups, and make a central page (at the very least the ones that had signups) so they're all visible.

Here are some setups I like:

Nominate JesterMafia

7 townies
2 mafia
1 jester
Day start

Because you can never have enough Jesters.

Arsonist Mafia

1 Arsonist (SK that kills with Fire, possibly a 50% chance of killing)
1 Firefighter (Protown, Protects pepole from Arsonist, If Arsonist killed, turns into townie)
3 Mafia (1 Godfather)
2 Cops (Possibly both Sane)
1 Doc
4 Townies

Like the look of it. Needs work.

Nominate Vigilante Mafia 2

3 Goons
1 Vigilante
8 Townies
Day start

Simple. Clean.

[yellowbounder]

Double Mafia

2 Mafia A Goons
2 Mafia B Goons
1 Doctor (has two uses of protection from NK per night, not on self)
2 Medical Student Bodyguards (protection only works against Doctor, dies after protected)
5 Townies

If both Mafia families attack the same person, unless the Doctor put BOTH of his protections on that person, he dies.

If both Mafia families attempt to NK the Doctor when he has 1 Bodyguard, both die (the bodyguard takes the first hit, but the Doctor dies from the second). If both NK the Doctor with two Bodyguards, both Bodyguards die.

Balanced?

[yellowbounder]

Bodyguard Mafia

1 SK (immune to NK)
2 Mafia
3 Bodyguards
2 Cops (1 Sane, 1 Other (Naive, Paranoid, Insane); sanity is not known)
6 Townies

[yellowbounder]

Nightless Vanilla, 11 players

4 Mafia
7 Citizens
Day phases only

Nominate: Nightless Vanilla

I think we have a lot of good stuff in the archives. Simplicity is good.

[yellowbounder]

Jester Mafia

Jester Mafia is an Open Setup game which features a Day Start and consists of Townies, a single Mafia group, and one or more Jesters. This results in three teams with separate and mutually exclusive win conditions:

* The Townies win if and only if they lynch all Mafia and do not lynch a Jester. (The game ends when all Mafia have been lynched.)
* The Mafia win if and only if they equal or exceed the remaining non-Mafia in the game, or if nothing can prevent the same.
* The Jester wins if and only if they are lynched.

The first Open Role game featured 7 townies, 2 mafia and 1 jester.

Nominate Jester Mafia

Can't find the original post. This has been done before.

[yellowbounder]

Medix

3 scum
9 doctors

Only the player receiving the most protections is protected, so if 2 people protect Alice, 3 protect Bob, and 4 protect Carl, Carl will be protected from the nightkill. No one is protected if there's a tie.

I predict that everyone talking about who they protected last night will become the major factor in this, and the Mafia trying to protect the minimum person. But the draw=no protection thing, is a little too random.
I'd

Nominate Medix with Tie Protection Mafia

I've been thinking about Jester Mafia, and whether it's possible to make it bigger.
The last game was 7 Townies, 2 Mafia, 1 Jester.
I'm not sure whether you could increase the number of Jesters, since that would mean the Jester himself would have to be careful.

How about:

Two Jester Mafia

10 Townies
3 Mafia
2 Jesters
Both Jesters know the other's identity, but win independently.

Clown and Jester Mafia

7 Townies
1 Vigilante
3 Mafia
1 Jester

Thoughts?

[yellowbounder]

Medix

3 scum
9 doctors

Only the player receiving the most protections is protected, so if 2 people protect Alice, 3 protect Bob, and 4 protect Carl, Carl will be protected from the nightkill. No one is protected if there's a tie.

I have an idea. There are two possiblities.

Medix A

2-4 Doctors protecting one person prevents an NK.

Medix B

The number of simultaneous Doctors protecting someone has to be equal to the number of the Scum.

[yellowbounder]

Two Jester Mafia

10 Townies
3 Mafia
2 Jesters
Both Jesters know the other's identity, but win independently.

Nominate Two Jester Mafia

(I am nominating my own setup. Ugh.)

[yellowbounder]

Double Day Mafia

12 Townies
4 Mafia

Two lynches per day, alignment reveal immediately after lynch, one mafia kill per night.

Have I got the numbers balanced?

[yellowbounder]

Hide and Seek Mafia

3 Mafia
6 Hiders (die if hide behind mafia, die if target is NKed)
2 Trackers

Also, I'd like to run Hider Mafia, but am concerned about two things: (1) The 2 Trackers are really, really, good. Maybe

too

good. Show me I'm wrong or tweak it. (2) I'm concerned about breaking strategies where the hiders

plan

who they hide with in an attempt to hide with mafia to gt themselves killed, outing mafia in the process. Show me that this isn't conceivable, or find a way around it (allow mafia to disable killing those who visit at night?).

v2

4 Mafia [after all, most of the town has a semi sort of NK immunity]
6 Hiders
1 Tracker (finds out who X targeted)
1 Watcher (finds out who targeted Y)

v3

3 Mafia
6 Hiders
1 Paranoid Gun Owner Vig (PGO works only for Hiders)
1 Tracker
1 Watcher

v4

3 Mafia
6 Hiders
1 Tracker
1 Forensics Expert (finds out cause of death)
[in v4, the difference between a hider->mafia death, and a mafia NK is unknown (role and alignment still revealed), preventing {2}, while being a good substitute for the Tracker, but not as good, fulfilling {1}]

I like

v4

since then the town can't fully plan, and scum could claim Forensics Expert.

Nominate Hide and Seek Mafia v4

Quoted for context.

Hide and Seek/Watch Mafia

4 Mafia
6 Hiders
2 Watchers

Mafia number because 3/4 of town have semi NK immunity, Watchers instead of Trackers.

[yellowbounder]

Double Day Mafia

12 Townies
4 Mafia

Two lynches per day, alignment reveal immediately after lynch, one mafia kill per night.

Have I got the numbers balanced?

I get 24% EV for the town with that setup. (4-12 is 50-50 for Nightless, 12% for normal mechanics.)

3-13 would be a pretty good balance (39%).

mith has spoken. 3-13 it may be, if people agree.

[yellowbounder]

Not sure about this live or die stuff, may be a bit complicated for a Normal Game. I proposed a lot of Lyncher stuff, back in the day, and that didn't go down too well.

Bumped.

Hide and Seek/Watch Mafia

4 Mafia
6 Hiders
2 Watchers

[yellowbounder]

I can't imagine more than one Hider being balanced enough, proportional to a mini-sized game.

I think half the point is that there are lots of hiders.

[yellowbounder]

Paint Stained Mafia

3 Mafia
3 Artisans
6 Painters/Vanilla

Each person has a unique colour/base coat, which they stain a person upon targeting them.
All painters MUST target someone at night, who is stained with their colour.
A person can be stained with multiple distinct colours.

An Artisan determines all stains upon a person, as well as their base coat, but in no particular order (he also stains the target). He can target deceased individuals.

A person knows their "unique colour", and the person's colour is revealed to everyone upon death.

---

I think this setup is balanced. The mafia member performing the kill will leave his colour on the body, but the Artisan will detect all colours upon the body, thus determining the possible subjects. Should the Artisan target someone who has never been targeted before, he would detect the person's base colour, (but he would also then leave his own colour).

Thoughts?

Random Fact: There are exactly 12 colours in this forum, apart from white and black.

[yellowbounder]

Paint Stained Mafia

3 Mafia
3 Artisans
6 Painters/Vanilla

Each person has a unique colour/base coat, which they stain a person upon targeting them.
All painters MUST target someone at night, who is stained with their colour.
A person can be stained with multiple distinct colours.

An Artisan determines all stains upon a person, as well as their base coat, but in no particular order (he also stains the target). He can target deceased individuals.

A person knows their "unique colour", and the person's colour is revealed to everyone upon death.

---

I think this setup is balanced. The mafia member performing the kill will leave his colour on the body, but the Artisan will detect all colours upon the body, thus determining the possible subjects. Should the Artisan target someone who has never been targeted before, he would detect the person's base colour, (but he would also then leave his own colour).

Thoughts?

Random Fact: There are exactly 12 colours in this forum, apart from white and black.

After talking to CDB about this setup, we had a few ideas.

Keep the staining mechanic, but make it an otherwise normal game.

3 Mafia
1 SK
3 Artisans
1 Vigilante
1 Doc
3 Townies

(For more interesting results, it could be possible that when A targets B, B get stained with A's colour, and A gets stained with B's colour. Then, you can't automatically tell the difference.)

[yellowbounder]

Paint Stained Mafia

3 Mafia
3 Artisans
6 Painters/Vanilla

Each person has a unique colour/base coat, which they stain a person upon targeting them.
All painters MUST target someone at night, who is stained with their colour.
A person can be stained with multiple distinct colours.

An Artisan determines all stains upon a person, as well as their base coat, but in no particular order (he also stains the target). He can target deceased individuals.

A person knows their "unique colour", and the person's colour is revealed to everyone upon death.

---

I think this setup is balanced. The mafia member performing the kill will leave his colour on the body, but the Artisan will detect all colours upon the body, thus determining the possible subjects. Should the Artisan target someone who has never been targeted before, he would detect the person's base colour, (but he would also then leave his own colour).

Thoughts?

Random Fact: There are exactly 12 colours in this forum, apart from white and black.

After talking to CDB about this setup, we had a few ideas.

Keep the staining mechanic, but make it an otherwise normal game.

3 Mafia
1 SK
3 Artisans
1 Vigilante
1 Doc
3 Townies

(For more interesting results, it could be possible that when A targets B, B get stained with A's colour, and A gets stained with B's colour. Then, you can't automatically tell the difference.)

Just a thought - you should give the scum false colour claims - since there will be a mass colour claim at the start of the game ..

Nominate

Ah, but colours are unique, and random.

A

Green

colour has no impact on alignment, and the Vigilante could be

Violet

.

Although that gives me pause for thought, because a mass colour claim may break the game, since then any one not telling the truth is found, and then the Artisans essentially become much more powerful.

If you made one of the Mafia ,a Mafia Artisan, and allowed the Doctor to determine Base Colour of target, and a person does not know their own colour?

I'm just throwing out suggestions here. Not to mention, what about mutual staining.

[yellowbounder]

Ah, but colours are unique, and random.

A

Green

colour has no impact on alignment, and the Vigilante could be

Violet

.

Although that gives me pause for thought, because a mass colour claim may break the game, since then any one not telling the truth is found, and then the Artisans essentially become much more powerful.

If you made one of the Mafia ,a Mafia Artisan, and allowed the Doctor to determine Base Colour of target, and a person does not know their own colour?

I'm just throwing out suggestions here. Not to mention, what about mutual staining.

What about a mixing system. for example red and yellow make orange. Etc. And only artisans know their colours

A mixing system doesn't work, what about

Violet

and

Dark Blue

? An Artisan will recognize his colour eventually, it just shows up in EVERY single paint check he makes.

[yellowbounder]

You know what would would make this game even more confusing? Votes leave stains, and only in the day. So you could have day-artisans and night-artisans.

It's not supposed to be confusing. Sigh.

[yellowbounder]

Cautious Mafia

3 Mafia
3 CPR Doctors (if target not NKed, then kills target)
1 Gunsmith (tells if target can kill, so CPR Doc, or Mafia, yes; townie, no)
5 Townies

I'm tempted to allow the CPR doctors to cancel each other out if there's an even number of people, and the person isn't otherwise killed. (So, 1 CPR kills, 2 CPR lives, 3 CPR kills)

[yellowbounder]

I think giving the mafia an artisan would imbalance the game ..

An artisan can determine one killer role on Night 2 (by targeting the Night 1 killed) ... Maybe mutual staining and reducing the mafia by one would balance things out ..

Quote pyramid removed by the way.

Well, the Artisan COULD find a killer role on Night 2, but that's if he targets the right person.

Artisan

targets

Dead Bob

(townie,

Red

).

On this person, there are three stains (in no particular order),

Orange

,

Red

,

Olive

In order to find the killer, the Artisan needs to eliminate his colour (which he's worked out, because he sees it everywhere), eliminate the target's base colour, and know he knows the killer's colour is Olive (assuming he was NKed).

If he then targets Honest Guy (colour unknown), and finds that he's coloured

Green

,

Orange

,

Olive

, he could assume that Honest Guy is the killer. But that's if he targets that person.

Mutual staining would eventually mean that everyone's brightly coloured at the end of the game, ensuring a sort of Dethy thing.

[yellowbounder]

Cautious Mafia

3 Mafia
3 CPR Doctors (if target not NKed, then kills target)
1 Gunsmith (tells if target can kill, so CPR Doc, or Mafia, yes; townie, no)
5 Townies

I'm tempted to allow the CPR doctors to cancel each other out if there's an even number of people, and the person isn't otherwise killed. (So, 1 CPR kills, 2 CPR lives, 3 CPR kills)

Maybe "Drug Detective" can find anyone with drugs. Mafia smuggle them, CPRs inject with them.

Also With the CPR
No NK: 1 CPR kills; 2 CPR lives; 3 CPR kills
NK: 1 CPR lives; 2 CPR kills; 3 CPR lives

Yeah, I that's the sort of Gunsmith I meant.

[yellowbounder]

I think giving the mafia an artisan would imbalance the game ..

An artisan can determine one killer role on Night 2 (by targeting the Night 1 killed) ... Maybe mutual staining and reducing the mafia by one would balance things out ..

Quote pyramid removed by the way.

Well, the Artisan COULD find a killer role on Night 2, but that's if he targets the right person.

Artisan

targets

Dead Bob

(townie,

Red

).

On this person, there are three stains (in no particular order),

Orange

,

Red

,

Olive

In order to find the killer, the Artisan needs to eliminate his colour (which he's worked out, because he sees it everywhere), eliminate the target's base colour, and know he knows the killer's colour is Olive (assuming he was NKed).

If he then targets Honest Guy (colour unknown), and finds that he's coloured

Green

,

Orange

,

Olive

, he could assume that Honest Guy is the killer. But that's if he targets that person.

Mutual staining would eventually mean that everyone's brightly coloured at the end of the game, ensuring a sort of Dethy thing.

Okies - mutual staining isn't that good.
But if we had a mass color claim at the start of the day , 'Olive' would have to declare himself and he'd get caught on Night 2 - when it comes up on Dead bob.

Assuming scum are given fake color claims , when an artisan targets a scum - he would have 2 colors - one his own and one the real color of the scum - both of which wont be what he fake claimed - so he knows the person has lied - so the artisan effectively becomes a powerful cop type role.

I thought we were going with the assumption that people don't know their own colours. The only people who could work them out are Artisans. (Since their own colour would always show up when they target someone, eventually they'd work it out.)

[yellowbounder]

I thought we were going with the assumption that people don't know their own colours. The only people who could work them out are Artisans. (Since their own colour would always show up when they target someone, eventually they'd work it out.)

I presumed that they would find the colour on them and then accidentally stain them so they never actually find out what colour they are unless they target themselves first.

And I've though of another idea. If you get given red and blue and your base colour is X you pass on your base plus all others on you.

1) No, no, staining happens before results. If a Red Artisan targets a Green Townie (who, let's just assume, hasn't been targeted before), he would get Green and Red back. Then if he targets a Yellow Mafia (was targeted by Blue Doc once), he would get Red, Yellow, and Blue.

The recurring colour of Red, and the lack of Green means the Artisan now knows his own colour, and through process of elimination, also knows that the person he targeted was Green.

2) That'll quickly destroy any information you can gain, since people will get more colourful as they go on.

[yellowbounder]

That was the point of number 2. It requires quick action or it's too late.

You get one set of results per night, and it takes time to work out what it means. Mashing it all together is not the answer.

[yellowbounder]

Shades of Grey Mafia

3 Mafia (1 performs kill each night)
1 Bodyguard
1 Jailkeeper
1 Roleblocker
6 Townies

[yellowbounder]

What happens if Bodyguard and Jailkeeper protect the same person?

Not much, unless that person is targeted by a NK. I'd just say that the Bodyguard doesn't die then, but the person is still protected.

[yellowbounder]

Two Bullets a Night Mafia

3 Mafia, makes two NK per night
14 Townies (only one lynch per day)

[yellowbounder]

Two Bullets a Night Mafia

3 Mafia, makes two NK per night
14 Townies (only one lynch per day)

How about 2:14?

[yellowbounder]

Alibi and Kevlar Mafia

3 Mafia
1 Bullet-proof Townie
1 Lynch-proof Townie
5 Townies

[yellowbounder]

Alibi and Kevlar Mafia

3 Mafia
1 Bullet-proof Townie
1 Lynch-proof Townie
5 Townies

Why does everyone ignore Alibi and Kevlar? Is it because you find it boring, or just dull?

[yellowbounder]

Alibi and Kevlar Mafia

3 Mafia
1 Bullet-proof Townie
1 Lynch-proof Townie
5 Townies

Why does everyone ignore Alibi and Kevlar? Is it because you find it boring, or just dull?

The idea sounds pretty interesting to me. I'd definitely play.

I don't really know anything about balance, though. Someone else has to help there.

And... question, if the Lynch-proof is "lynched," does the day end with No Lynch, or does the day go on? But then again, it probably won't make any difference because the Lynch-proof would claim before he was lynched anyway.

Oh, the day would end with no lynch I think, although that could be up to debate. However, if he is confirmed by the mod to be Lynch-proof, then the mafia would kill him overnight, for almost certain.

[yellowbounder]

Here's a variant on the bullet-proof role that might be better (I don't have a name for it yet): Mafia can choose each night to kill using a gun or iocaine powder. Bullet-proof only dies if targeted by iocaine powder, all the other townies have built up an immunity to it. (Substitute "iocaine powder" for whatever, depending on the flavor.) Basically, the Mafia can kill the "bullet-proof" role once they figure out who it is (either by failing the previous night, or through claims).

Tweaked yb setup:

2 Mafia
1 Bullet-proof Variant (see above)
1 Lynch-proof
6 Townies

Nominate this. Why not

Alibis and Allergies Mafia

?