[SETUP]Chain Reaction

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Realeo
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:52 pm

Normally, I would just run my computer simulation.

However, I am lazy. New Year Laziness. Please tell me if this setup doesn't (or surprisingly!) work

Chain Reaction9 VT turned Kingmaker on lynch
2 Mafia Goons
1 Vengenful Mafia turned Kingmaker on lynch

It is a nightless Mafia. Daytalk is open from first quarter of dayphase until third quarter of day phase. In a dayphase with IRL 12 days deadline, the Daytalk is open when there is 9 ~ 3 Days remaining in Deadline. If the mod needs to look for replacement, the clock is stopped.

This game employs Accelerated Start and Plurality lynch.

If a Mafia Goon is lynched, game goes to next dayphase.

However, if a VT is lynched, the game thread is locked. The VT, before dies, must lynch another player kingmaker style. By Kingmaker style, I mean that the lynched VT is the only one that can vote and his vote decides who is lynched after him.

If a VT is lynched and lynch another VT, the newly lynched VT now must lynch another player. This VT chain reaction lynch continues until a VT lynch a mafia or Town loses.

However, if Vengeful is lynched by normal voting or chain reaction, the Vengeful would lynch another town before dead and since lynching VT by rule causes chain reaction, it would resume the chain reaction.

Town winning objective is to lynch all mafia member.
Mafia winning objective is to have the number of not lynched mafia equal to the number of not lynched VT


EV speaking, that's 50%. One of the weakness of nightless is that you cannot lynch the obvtown. This is compensated by Vengenful.
Last edited by Realeo on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:05 pm

ew
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Realeo
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:13 pm

Y?
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Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:04 am

The best route for scum is to push someone who can chain-ML a lot of people.
Let's say we have players A through L. A, B, C are scum. D and E are in a massive T v T. F has been noting this. D and G call him scum for this. F calls G scum for discrediting him. By lynching E, you cause it to go E-D-F-G, unless one breaks the chain.
I feel there's a better way to express how scumsided this seems, but I can't find words to do so.
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Realeo
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:06 am

I understand the argument.. I may as well need to make computer simulation.
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Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:13 am

Computer sims won't help. My issue is with people being blithering idiots.
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Realeo
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:18 am

In post 5, Gamma Emerald wrote:Computer sims won't help. My issue is with people being blithering idiots.


Computer tells us the normal people.

So the actual rate is higher because people being blithering idiots.

At least we have educated guess.
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implosion
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:38 pm

Reminiscent of popcorn mafia.
GE wrote:The best route for scum is to push someone who can chain-ML a lot of people.
Let's say we have players A through L. A, B, C are scum. D and E are in a massive T v T. F has been noting this. D and G call him scum for this. F calls G scum for discrediting him. By lynching E, you cause it to go E-D-F-G, unless one breaks the chain.

It sounds as though these townies' reads are quite bad to the point where they probably should be losing this game.
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Realeo
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:37 pm

In post 0, Realeo wrote:Normally, I would just run my computer simulation.

However, I am lazy. New Year Laziness. Please tell me if this setup doesn't (or surprisingly!) work

Chain Reaction9 VT turned Kingmaker on lynch
3 Mafia Goons

It is a nightless Mafia. Daytalk is open from first quarter of dayphase until third quarter of day phase. In a dayphase with IRL 12 days deadline, the Daytalk is open when there is 9 ~ 3 Days remaining in Deadline.

This game employs Accelerated Start.

If a Mafia Goon is lynched, game goes to next dayphase.

However, if a VT is lynched, the game thread is locked. The VT, before dies, must lynch another player kingmaker style. By Kingmaker style, I mean that the lynched VT is the only one that can vote and his vote decides who is lynched after him.

If a VT is lynched and lynch another VT, the newly lynched VT now must lynch another player. This VT chain reaction lynch continues until a VT lynch a mafia or Town loses.


EV speaking, that's 50%. One of the weakness of nightless is that you cannot lynch the obvtown. This is compensated by punishing bad play of town. Town can rack up early town loss or lynch a obvtown in the VT chain reaction.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:56 am

It's slightly modified popcorn mafia essentially, which appears to be roughly balanced at 7 town 4 scum.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
shadowfriend1: you were asking the best questions to be out of the whole town, by far. ... every time ... you were pointing out legitimiately scummy behaviour. Like, every time. It was terrifying.
PenguinPower: mhsmith0: Best mod so far. Thank you.
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?

Realeo
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:20 am

How does it balances at 7 town 4 scums, if I may ask? 7 town and 4 scums is essentially 6 towns and 4 scums and 1 game solver which is around 20% EV?
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callforjudgement
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:43 pm

Games where scum have little or no control over who dies seem in practice to be balanced at stupidly low EVs, for whatever reason.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

Realeo
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:49 pm

In post 11, callforjudgement wrote:Games where scum have little or no control over who dies seem in practice to be balanced at stupidly low EVs, for whatever reason.


Isn't the reason is because of scum cannot kill obv town?
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callforjudgement
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:51 pm

I think it may also be because they can't kill people who are suspecting them, or people who they're worried will suspect them in the future.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

Realeo
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:53 pm

Do you think it would be solved better with my idea of Chain Reaction?

Maybe I have to turn one into Vengenful.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:13 pm

In general, towns do slightly better than expected values based on random lynches/investigations/night actions. In games where scum cannot use factional kill abilities to snuff out town that are problems (good reads, consensus town, etc) the difference generally seems to go up substantially.

FWIW, the FakeGod large dance theme games have been a very notable exception to this rule. Based on playing in one and skimming through another, I would say that this is a combination of:

1) towns foolishly using their suicide abilities in many situations where it is wildly sub-optimal to do so
2) towns being exceptionally bad at using private topic neighborhoods to read people (an aspect of play that has also popped up repeatedly in mini normal results as well, as scum neighbors/neighborizers have worked incredibly well, while all town hoods do not seem to be especially good at recognizing each other)
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
shadowfriend1: you were asking the best questions to be out of the whole town, by far. ... every time ... you were pointing out legitimiately scummy behaviour. Like, every time. It was terrifying.
PenguinPower: mhsmith0: Best mod so far. Thank you.
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?

Realeo
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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:39 pm

My mind is that by locking the thread, the scum can strategically zone out bad player to make another bad lynch due to the chain reaction.

And yeah, that large dance somehow always come to the final 2 pairs. Somehow.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:42 pm

Two scum survived the last one actually.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
shadowfriend1: you were asking the best questions to be out of the whole town, by far. ... every time ... you were pointing out legitimiately scummy behaviour. Like, every time. It was terrifying.
PenguinPower: mhsmith0: Best mod so far. Thank you.
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?

Realeo
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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:45 pm

I modify a Goon into Vengeful.
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Realeo
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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:47 pm

What should the game mod do if A is lynched and site flaked before lynching.
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