Conditional Idol Plays

[Mist7676]

Ooooh this is a good point.

I think I agree with you that Conditional Idol Plays were put in place to recreate the idea that "Players should be allowed to respond to what happens at Tribal Council while also ensuring Tribal Council is posted within ~5 minutes." I don't see any other reason why that would just become a rule.

I think it's important to keep around so we're being mindful of players who cannot be around at deadline (They're asleep, they're in a meeting, they're on a flight). Like if someone will be completely without access at deadline, I think it's important to have conditional plays be allowed just so they can be content they are doing the most they can while also not feeling like they have to change their schedule to be around for an online game. We make a lot of concessions to make sure this game is playable by people who can't spend all their time on the forum and I think this is one of them.

I do think there is the possibility that a player can have items that are not respondable to (A secret item that was added by the game that only that player knows about), but that really doesn't matter when it comes to conditionals because players can only respond to things with things they have access to.

Revoking Conditional Idol plays just feels like you're trying to turn Tribal Council into a live event specifically for that player that has an idol and no one else.

[Mist7676]

Revoking Conditional Idol plays just feels like you're trying to turn Tribal Council into a live event specifically for that player that has an idol and no one else.

It's my view that tribal is always a live event that takes place over the course of a day, for everyone. The situation develops as people come to decisions and discover/share information. It's a damned shame that people can't be there for the whole thing, and it's even more of a damned shame when you can't be there for the end part because that's when stuff *always* happens - but that's just part of how the game works.

I agree that tribal as a whole is a live event. Sometimes things coalesce at the beginning or at the end and there's no knowing what would have changed if you sent a pm at 10 PM or 2 AM. However, because it is 24 hours, people have the option to flit in and out and decide how much involvement they want (or can!) have throughout the day. So even if it is "live" people with limited access can still decide to only spare an hour and still be successful.

Xof raised the accomodating players not around at deadline point too, in Discord yesterday - but I'm still not sure I see how it relates. A conditional play isn't conditional on anything that happens during the phase itself, it's conditional on things that happen in the reveal. With or without conditionals, someone who is present right up until deadline has no greater ability to react to an idol/item play than someone who left 2 hours beforehand.

I would instead see it as "what would I do if I was actually available at that time." So yes, it's conditional on what happens in the reveal because players would be given an option at that time to make a decision. If someone is available at the deadline and no conditionals are allowed in this game, that player has more availability to respond to events than others. If you would allow someone to play an idol ahead of the deadline (but it's not revealed until deadline), you need to give players the option to respond to that. Allowing players to play an idol before votes are due is making a decision, that would typically happen later, early. So conditional idol plays are just extensions of that.

I think that's the biggest difference we have from "the real experience" we shift things out of order. Players are answering tribal questions and the same time discussion "at camp" is happening. Players are writing down votes at the same time a target is being discussed. Idol plays are being locked in before votes are even read. I think of conditional idol plays as making sure players are still given the option to respond to something they would be able to respond to if the votes had already been in and locked.

[Mist7676]

I think what it comes down to is, the sole purpose of the idol is to protect myself when I feel in danger. And the idol is used after votes are locked and anyone can decide at anytime until votes are read whether or not they want to use it. On MS that window between locked votes and votes read is short. Sometimes a few minutes, sometimes within the post itself.

I'd only save an idol if I thought I was safe because I know who's going home. If someone gives immunity to the person who I thought was going home, that does not make me feel safe and I'd use my idol in that situation. So if I'm not around at that window of time to respond to an idol, and conditional plays are not allowed, the rules of the game are mechanically taking away that idol from me.