Umlaut's Mini Normal Review, March 2022
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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I realized between submitting this setup and now that yeah, it really is scumsided. Happy to add more town power, there are a lot of VTs so I could just add an additional town PR or two if you think that will do it. I considered whether to just make the Detective a straight-up Cop but it seems a lot of people hate ungated Town Cop as a role now.
The intention behind the Informed Traitor is that the Mafia will get that information if/when the Traitor is disabled, providing a bit of anti-swing in case Traitor-Enabler dies early (before the setup is more-or-less known anyway).
The main negative utility of the Traitor is probably just the discoördination of not having all Mafia able to work together.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
Honestly didn't know this had been done before, here I thought I was clever
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
Adding a Vengeful, or giving the JoaT an additional vig shot, would give town more powerandincrease the chance the Bodyguard comes into play, what do you think?“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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I feel like I've seen a JoAT with 2 shots of something before, but I'm not tied enough to that idea for the point to be worth debating if its legality is unclear.
Vengeful then? Has the additional benefit of getting the game back to odds assuming all kills go through. Can throw in like a Voyeur or 1-Shot [Whatever] or something if town still needs more power.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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If Traitor-Enabler ends up vetoed I'm going to be taking this whole setup back to the drawing board so I'm working from the assumption it's allowed until I hear otherwise.
Proposal: Replace one Townie with a Town Non-Consecutive Night Vigilante, take away Vig shot from the JoAT, give them an additional Cop shot or something instead?
If you dislike that as well I'd appreciate a specific counter-proposal.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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In case of Gunsmith I'd want to know whether the death of a [Role]-Enabler disables the [Role]'s gun-having effects. Is there a past setup where e.g. a disabled Town Cop could have been gunsmithed?“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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While awaiting mastina's input I will say that out of Datisi's suggestions I would prefer the Rolecop shot (which is very nearly a cop because Roleblocker is an inherently a suspect role and the other two scum can get hard-guiltied). And if the setup could still use a nudge in the direction of more town power then I'm happy to throw in some low-utility role like Voyeur or Fruit Vendor or whatever.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 6053
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(Actually I guess Traitor-Enabler isn't ahardhard guilty but it would be a very weird role to give to town)“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
Do you think Hider and Commuter are too samey in effect for the same JoAT? I could do Rolecop, Follower, Commuter, and something in a different category from those like Rolestopper. (But can just do Voyeur if you think three different investigative shots isn't excessive)“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
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I'd actually prefer Rolecop+Follower+Rolestopper+Commuter if that is acceptable (neither of you commented on Rolestopper as a suggestion here). If that gets vetoed I'll do Rolecop+Follower+Hider+Commuter.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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That's the one. I'll start writing updated role PMs in a bit.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
Reproducing all role/result PMs here, not just the changed ones, for easier review in one place. Note Mafia will be informed of the Traitor's existence within their private topic; I find this more convenient since I don't have to find a good way to redact it from the PM on flip.
Spoiler: Role PMs
Spoiler: Result PMs
Are we good to go?“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
I have used exactly that wording for no-result PMs without issue in all my past Normal games (in general I have a preference for minimizing use of "mechanical" terms like No Result, where possible) but I will change it if that is important to you.
Somewhat surprised at "no special role" being unacceptable wording but okay.
Spoiler: Updated Role PMs
Spoiler: Updated Result PMs
I'd also like to verify that the list of "types of action" for purposes of Follower results is the list on the wiki page Natural_Action_Resolution/Normal_Game, so e.g. following the Combined Doctor Checker returns "a protective action and a miscellaneous action" and nothing more specific than that.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6053
- Joined: August 3, 2016
- Location: Somewhere out there
Would it suffice to mention multitasking explicitly in the first post of the Mafia PT? I prefer to keep role PMs as close to identical as possible across my games.
If that doesn't suffice then I will go ahead and add "helper text" after the role-specific active ability text for each of the Mafia Roleblocker and Mafia Traitor-Enabler Bodyguard.
Can I consider this passed?“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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