Team Mafia 2018: Magical Stories ~Game Over~

[jjh927]

Ok, serious business to attend to. I'm

hated

and a

miller

.
There is more to the role, but it's a bad idea to go there at this time.

Does the hated cease to have an effect in mylo? Could you divulge flavour without probably giving away any more information than you already have?

[jjh927]

Ok, serious business to attend to. I'm

hated

and a

miller

.
There is more to the role, but it's a bad idea to go there at this time.

Does the hated cease to have an effect in mylo? Could you divulge flavour without probably giving away any more information than you already have?

Actually don't even answer the flavour question. You wouldn't claim hated without actually being hated, and whether or not miller is real or a scum gambit any flavour that could be hated could also be miller. Flavour is irrelevant

[jjh927]

I have consumed no less than 14 Tide pods so that we may vanquish evil. I can smell your fear.

VOTE: jjh

What you say suggests that your insides must be super clean but your vote suggests you're full of shit.

[jjh927]

I couldn't think of a better way to lead on from the first part of that line tbh. The vote's actually pretty alright under the circumstances

[jjh927]

I don't see him saying it was a serious vote anywhere.

What I do see is him voting the guy who posted before him trying to interact directly with what little content existed, which is par for the course in RVS play.

[jjh927]

I don't see that as being a "This is a serious vote" post but w/e.

Why do you think there's a correct response?

[jjh927]

Yeah except in reality I said he was full of shit because it contrasted nicely with his insides being clean from all the tide pods he claimed to eat and the phrase also says he's wrong

[jjh927]

Okay, so I was trying to come up with some kind of witty quip that played off of Zachstral saying that he ate a whole bunch of tide pods, and then I thought I could play around with how because tide pods are to make things clean that it would make his insides all clean, right? But I had to then bounce something off of that to make the witty quip actually witty and say that his vote on me was wrong. The phrase "full of shit" fulfills this objective by saying two things in the context; 1. that his insides are not clean, as they are, in fact, full of shit, and 2. that he is wrong for voting me. Regretfully, I was unable to come up with something that sounded less aggressive while still delivering a humorous retort to Zachstral's vote, and the directive of delivering a humorous retort was my priority in this case.

[jjh927]

VOTE: hebichan

This is the stage of the game where we generate content

[jjh927]

That's cool but maybe you should tell me why and then we can do a contenty thing rather than whatever that was

[jjh927]

That's cool but maybe you should tell me why and then we can do a contenty thing rather than whatever that was

telling you a read is more content than you voting hebi for the sake of voting, isn't it?
he says you feel like tryhard scum but might be tryhard town

It's not a read from you, and it's an RVS read. Pointing fingers doesn't carry the same weight in RVS. I am definitely tryharding, at any rate

VOTE: hebichan

This is the stage of the game where we generate content

I agree content is good, but I'm saying your content is bad.

The two aren't exclusive ideas here. Talking about yourself doesn't generate good content to read, you know your alignment already

Yeah except the paragraph you quoted was semi-shitposty explanation of something that was directed at Espeonage. I'm primarily getting content for me and you're right- I know my alignment already, which is why interactions with me are the best interactions for me to place people by.

You sitting there asking if you can scumread me (which it's amusing that I now find myself pointing out for certain reasons) is bad content by any standard. Why didn't you vote me there? Why are you still not voting me? Are you interested in creating the discussions or just being a part of them later on?

[jjh927]

Espeonage is a bad RVS vote rn

[jjh927]

Sleepy, what makes me tryharding scummy rather than me tryharding because I'm hyped for team mafia and I'm not overcommitted to games rn?



Boon, the thing to remember here is that he's part of a team and something like a miller claim could have been planned as such outside of player meta. I don't doubt for a moment that he's hated, and hated scum could very easily claim miller too. Call the claim null and evaluate on play.

[jjh927]

Sleepy, what makes me tryharding scummy rather than me tryharding because I'm hyped for team mafia and I'm not overcommitted to games rn?

you tryharding isn't what makes me think you're scummy

In that case how am I being dumb and scummy?

[jjh927]

I agree with Sleepy that Jjh is tryharding. I don’t necessarily think it makes him scummy, but he’s definitely not townie from it.

This isn't a post. I have agreed I am tryharding and there is no doubt there, and you just said it makes me null.

[jjh927]

Sleepy, what makes me tryharding scummy rather than me tryharding because I'm hyped for team mafia and I'm not overcommitted to games rn?

you tryharding isn't what makes me think you're scummy

In that case how am I being dumb and scummy?

despite tryharding, you're creating a lot of useless noise and doing very little to actually move the game forward
this could be because you're scum trying to seem like a motivated townie, or because you're a motivated townie that doesn't actually know what to do

I guess you don't see how I operate

Townreads: Espeonage, Boon
Townleans: Zachstral, Sleepy
Null: Davesaz, people who haven't posted
Scumleans
Scumreads: Hebichan

Is the useless noise the bit where people accuse me of being scum or where I place them for how they do it?



Boon, those kinds of posts would be better if they contained more things I could use to further place you. I do like getting an idea of your thought process but it's the things like your deliberation of the miller claim that I like. It's not useful if you make an obvious observation then draw no conclusions from it.

[jjh927]

damn I thought you'd say something like that but I was hoping you wouldn't

Who, what, and why

[jjh927]

It’s what popped into my head, so i said it.

What part of the deliberation exactly? Espeonage said he didn’t like i, don’t do it.

So you basicallytown lean everyone’s that posted minus hebi...?

There's no specific part. I just think you were actually deliberating whether or not it was a valid claim, as in, the deliberation process was true. If you were scum you would already know and would be faking deliberation. Not to say it's out of your scum range because I don't know what your range is, but for now you got a townread.

Do you think I'm townreading too many people?

[jjh927]

@jjh, how do you get a townlean on Zach?

He's put down a couple of votes and has been interacting with people in a way I find satisfactory. Does your hated modifer go away at mylo?

[jjh927]

Okay, so I was trying to come up with some kind of witty quip that played off of Zachstral saying that he ate a whole bunch of tide pods, and then I thought I could play around with how because tide pods are to make things clean that it would make his insides all clean, right? But I had to then bounce something off of that to make the witty quip actually witty and say that his vote on me was wrong. The phrase "full of shit" fulfills this objective by saying two things in the context; 1. that his insides are not clean, as they are, in fact, full of shit, and 2. that he is wrong for voting me. Regretfully, I was unable to come up with something that sounded less aggressive while still delivering a humorous retort to Zachstral's vote, and the directive of delivering a humorous retort was my priority in this case.

Are you always this defensive after getting a single vote on you?


Anyone?

Nobody want to come back to this post?

[jjh927]

VOTE: jjh

My previous post was joking tho
But personally the Boonskiies wagon is good, not til Day 2 tho

I have a fun role, don’t lynch me ever. I miss the Zach that had memorial services of me every day phase when we were scum together and I got killed night 1.

VOTE: Jjh

Zach should not have been a town lean.

If you disagree with my reads then please have some reads to disagree with?

I don't see how you can leap from disagreeing with me TLing Zach to thinking I am scum.

[jjh927]

Okay, so I was trying to come up with some kind of witty quip that played off of Zachstral saying that he ate a whole bunch of tide pods, and then I thought I could play around with how because tide pods are to make things clean that it would make his insides all clean, right? But I had to then bounce something off of that to make the witty quip actually witty and say that his vote on me was wrong. The phrase "full of shit" fulfills this objective by saying two things in the context; 1. that his insides are not clean, as they are, in fact, full of shit, and 2. that he is wrong for voting me. Regretfully, I was unable to come up with something that sounded less aggressive while still delivering a humorous retort to Zachstral's vote, and the directive of delivering a humorous retort was my priority in this case.

Are you always this defensive after getting a single vote on you?


Anyone?

You think my scumread on Hebi is forced after this post?

[jjh927]

Hebichan was pretty much asking whether or not they are allowed to consider my behaviour scummy without committing to a vote. In RVS.

The non-committal is what's scummy about it. Checking to see whether they have a pass for committing to the vote.

And I wasn't getting crazy defensive, either. There was a bit of back-and-forth in which I was trying to place Espeonage, and I'm fairly confident they were trying to place me. It was never about defence, but more about the nature of their attack, and Hebi completely missed that to try and jump on a potential mislynch.

[jjh927]

Eddie Cane says that Boon is analytically capable of placing me correctly as town here and as a result his vote is trash.

He said that a while ago, actually, but we had discord issues.

[jjh927]

Well, for a start we actually got 5 town role PMs.

But yeah, that aside, if you're asking me to self-meta, I massively prefer town. I'm much better at finding the scum than pretending to find the scum.

Also I wanted this game because A. My real skill is in reading role PMs and parsing claims, and B. The flavour in my role PM is a story I loved in my childhood.

[jjh927]

Im probably going to be a bigger tryhard than Jjh this game. I’m trying to play in a way where everyone in this game cant just skip over me. I want people to comment to me and I’ll converse back. I’m better in direct 1v1’s, so fight me if you need to.

Perspective is a great thing, isn't it?

You don't engage in 1V1s by calling out to everyone though. You have to ask specific people questions or say things that will get them to say things back and keep the ball rolling no matter what.

You gonna talk shit about me being defensive again or are you going to be self-aware?

[jjh927]

Actually here's a thought, hiplop- ask Cheetory6 if I am town

[jjh927]

Hiplop, have you asked cheet to place me for you yet

[jjh927]

Boon

- for my part, I don’t buy the claim that your team would not have let you have a scum PM. You also said that most of your team are fairly new players. I find it unlikely, if you prefer playing scum

and

are the most experienced player, that they would insist on taking scum themselves rather than to let you have it - surely they’d at least let you make the call.

Slight scumread on Boon because I think that he may be lying about this.

~~~~

jjh

- I’m not the first to ask, please can you explain where your reads in #66 came from. What about Zach made him town? You said “his votes and his interactions”… I’ve read back through the 4 posts Zach had made at that point and I just don’t see it.

What made Espeon and Boon stronger townreads at that point than Zach and Sleepy? What was scummy about hebi’s post? Are those still your reads?

VOTE: jjh

It helps you get out of RVS if you dump down a readlist and people start critiquing it, because it shifts focus to reads and we get actual discussion. Don't take them as firm because they're from very early in the game, and of course some things have changed. The primary purpose of that readslist was because I knew people would target it and I would be able to see how they did that, but they were an accurate representation of what I was thinking at the time.

Zach was justifying reasons for the RVS vote in a way that actually mounts pressure, which is good RVS behaviour and how you actually progress the game from there, hence he got a townlean. It wasn't a hard townread even for that stage of the game, but basically I liked the way he was doing the things people are expected to do. Just a little bit of pro-town behaviour veiled in Zachstral being Zachstral.

Espeonage is still a really hard TR rn, and the main reason then was for the interactions with me. Mainly 22. That was the point I figured they were pushing something they thought could actually really be a thing rather than faking a push.

Sleepy was a bit iffy at that point, still is, but I can see the potential for town motivation at the root of his misguidedness. The issue there is that there's enough misguidedness for me to consider that he's scum anyway, so it's only a townlean.


I have already gone in detail on what was scummy about Hebi's post.

Hebichan was pretty much asking whether or not they are allowed to consider my behaviour scummy without committing to a vote. In RVS.

The non-committal is what's scummy about it. Checking to see whether they have a pass for committing to the vote.

And I wasn't getting crazy defensive, either. There was a bit of back-and-forth in which I was trying to place Espeonage, and I'm fairly confident they were trying to place me. It was never about defence, but more about the nature of their attack, and Hebi completely missed that to try and jump on a potential mislynch.

No, they are not all still my reads, but I'm not sure where I'd place Boon now because he's gone rather up and down. I'm detecting willful ignorance. Also more people have posted. Some reads are still the same though.

[jjh927]

Sheep likely tells at least partial truth.

Creature has enough experience of me to TR me off the bat for actually playing the game.

Mulch does not. Large 205 I lurked hard, which is an anomaly in my town meta. So unless he's basing this on the bit where I stopped lurking when I was about to get lynched, then something's off.

[jjh927]

My team wants me to tell people voting me to read like, any one of my games

[jjh927]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=72576 <--this game was balanced like trash but it's not very long.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=71471 <--You'd need a lot of time on your hands for this but w/e. Eddie says scum used my readslist as a reason to push me but all I really remember is Titus' bad play being the main catalyst for scum pushing me.

That is two games I was almost the designated mislynch day 1 though.

[jjh927]

The defense of jjh seemed opportunistic from the timing and despite relying on his team, he hasn't actually given any other reads besides the one that could give him cred.

Like sure, relying on your team seems weak, but relying on your team to give a single read seems worse.

I'm intrigued- what read are you talking about?

Also maybe you could give reads because I was coming around on you possibly being town before I left to go shopping because of you pushing Sheep. Looks like TvT from where I'm sitting

[jjh927]

The defense of jjh seemed opportunistic from the timing and despite relying on his team, he hasn't actually given any other reads besides the one that could give him cred.

Like sure, relying on your team seems weak, but relying on your team to give a single read seems worse.

The defense of jjh seemed opportunistic from the timing and despite relying on his team, he hasn't actually given any other reads besides the one that could give him cred.

Like sure, relying on your team seems weak, but relying on your team to give a single read seems worse.

I'm intrigued- what read are you talking about?

Also maybe you could give reads because I was coming around on you possibly being town before I left to go shopping because of you pushing Sheep. Looks like TvT from where I'm sitting

Oh you mean me that makes sense now

[jjh927]

Where's Espeonage

[jjh927]

How do you feel about hiplop?

[jjh927]

See, I have bad feelings about Hiplop because I know for a fact that Cheetory6 would be able to correctly place me as town and would point this out seeing as I was and kinda still am a major point of contention

[jjh927]

Momo is super towny rn and also-

Hiplop, have you talked to Cheet yet

[jjh927]

VOTE: hiplop

Do you have a problem with voting hiplop, Sheep?

[jjh927]

Ftr Zachstral, your team should be pretty good for placing me. RC caught me as scum on that hydra in that game I don't bring up, Keychain was one of my scumbuddies in the only other scumgame I've played, and Firebringer is also a person. Although admittedly I think RC would have thought I was scum even if I was town that game; I guess it still counts as him catching me anyway.

Unless you've already talked about this and this is the real reason why you're laying off of me for now?

[jjh927]

VOTE: Katsuki

[jjh927]

VOTE: Katsuki

Fuck...dave

Come on, I set a trap to catch scum, didn't think you would fall for it.

Right now, scum doesn't want scum to be lynched. They are looking for an alternative. I presented kat. Town, especially one as experienced as you, should never be voting kat. Kat is anti-town, not scum. This is an easy lynch that only scum would go for. Not anyone worth their salt as town.

SCUM READING DAVE

pedit: and jj does it too....could see them together

in fact, VOTE: davesaz

It's not a bad place to start pushing someone. Scum can hide as anti-town and I townread most of the people I've pushed/ other people have pushed. I mainly want to see if Katsuki will start being useful if we add a little pressure, because I can put Hiplop to the side for now

[jjh927]

Katsuki! Are you able to express more than just reads (such as the reasons for reads) through pepes? I want to have a conversation but I'm not sure you're capable of the range of expression required

[jjh927]

oh this will be fun

Half the reason I'm going to attempt it tbh

[jjh927]

Okay Katsuki, no response yet to that first question. In that case, let's not make this a drawn out reactionary thing like I wanted it to be because that would have been more fun. Let's talk.

You've played with me on, I think, exactly one occasion- sexy brutale mafia. I was hydraing with Alisae and as such me and Alisae carried, but Alisae did most of the work.

What I remember was I ended up being on the wagon that lynched you, and that was really bad and Alisae yelled at me for it, but I think you did some pretty hard tunneling of your own on people who were town in that game while you were there. I think you're doing that now. You're tunneling but you're doing it without words and I want to compare notes but it's difficult when you aren't really saying things.


Since it was a hydra, I'm guessing you needed your memory jogged but I'm going to strongly suggest you try to remember how I play. And if you're noticing something wrong, then could you try to actually explain what that is rather than just pointing things out and implying they're scummy/bad? Otherwise, your posting gimmick is restricting you from being a competent player.

[jjh927]

Just remembered I'm still voting Katsuki which is a bad place for my vote rn

VOTE: Thor

[jjh927]

Oi davesaz, talk to me about momo

[jjh927]

Hansel and Gretel?

[jjh927]

What's changed, Zachstral

[jjh927]

gerry are you town bro

Are you?
A lynch on JJH is something we shoiuld see through.

You wanna talk me through why you think I'm lockscum when you haven't actually directly engaged with me at all?

[jjh927]

Gerry, where've you gone? If you'll fight me one on one in real time I'll make my words rhyme

[jjh927]

What about Thor? His opening is trash tier.

[jjh927]

Greetings all,

My urge to read 15 pages that blew up in one day is pretty much nonexistent.
Last votecount was from uber early this morning, so I'll wait for Alisae to post a current one and then will leap onto the largest wagon unless anyone has anything more exciting for me to sheep.

Pedit: Wow - lots of posts in a moment there.

VOTE: jjh927

The sheep defense this page feels legit or white knighty, so let's pressure more here for lulz.

Specifically

The sheep defense this page feels legit or white knighty

meaning "Sheep is either legitimately defending jjh927 or he is scum defending town!jjh927 for towncred", right? And that's the justification for voting me, which is counterintuitive to both scenarios. The vote fails to add pressure or lulz, and Thor is then absent and so does not follow up on either pressure or lulz. Pressure or lulz could be obtained under those circumstances by getting on the at-the-time equally sized sheep wagon.

???

[jjh927]

Read 574 before you say there's nothing wrong with it

[jjh927]

Did Alisae just reference a referencing of an ongoing game in an ongoing game for future reference

[jjh927]

Is Sheep supposed to be on two wagons?

[jjh927]

I infer from context that Sheep was not supposed to be on two wagons

[jjh927]

I'm lonely someone talk to me

[jjh927]

Free my guy fro99er

Like honestly when I got wagoned more seriously I was waiting for him to show up and yell at everyone for being bad and trying to lynch me...

But fro99er never came. Maybe he fell into the river while crossing the road.

[jjh927]

am I scum

I want to lynch Fenchurch or you.

Jjh is like Pontius Pilate watching me die. Yo buddy, get me a line to Transcend.
I'm trusting my teammate's Jjh reads over my own

VOTE: Fen

Last night was roleplaying then sleep. Apologies.

Didn't need to talk to Trans because I TR you, and Eddie and Giga TR you as of some earlier point in the game too. You're probably town.

Also lol at Zach comparing himself to Jesus

[jjh927]

gerry are you town bro

Are you?
A lynch on JJH is something we shoiuld see through.

You wanna talk me through why you think I'm lockscum when you haven't actually directly engaged with me at all?

Gladly, I would love to.
What say you?
You've given no reason for you to be town,
I'm sure you know that to be true.
Prove me wrong, show me my mistake
I want to see the rebuttals that you're going to make.

You just gave a non-answer you question-dancer,
I asked you why you think I'm scum
and that discussion won't become
me just telling you why I'm not.

You ask to prove you wrong on the ostensive offensive
but in truth you haven't shit to put me on the defensive
so what the hell am I proving wrong?
You've talked about lynching, and lynching, and lynching, me
so give me a reason for you to be.

[jjh927]

Jjh is like Pontius Pilate watching me die.

Quoting this again because it's fucking hilarious that Zachstral compared himself to Jesus

[jjh927]

Giga thinks Zach would have white knighted my lynch wagon early game if he was scum and that might be some meta worth exploring?

[jjh927]

Why do you consider talking to teammates a bad thing here, Momo? It's not something worth getting aggressive over.

Admittedly, the info they give is likely to be from a more detached perspective, but it's worth considering and it's more info from a slot

[jjh927]

Her opinion on what?

I already told you what I got from Giga. Just to make things completely clear, Giga is Katyusha.

Eddie just said Zachstral is the dumbass variant of town and Trans isn't really reading this game

[jjh927]

Katsuki

Okay Katsuki, no response yet to that first question. In that case, let's not make this a drawn out reactionary thing like I wanted it to be because that would have been more fun. Let's talk.

You've played with me on, I think, exactly one occasion- sexy brutale mafia. I was hydraing with Alisae and as such me and Alisae carried, but Alisae did most of the work.

What I remember was I ended up being on the wagon that lynched you, and that was really bad and Alisae yelled at me for it, but I think you did some pretty hard tunneling of your own on people who were town in that game while you were there. I think you're doing that now. You're tunneling but you're doing it without words and I want to compare notes but it's difficult when you aren't really saying things.


Since it was a hydra, I'm guessing you needed your memory jogged but I'm going to strongly suggest you try to remember how I play. And if you're noticing something wrong, then could you try to actually explain what that is rather than just pointing things out and implying they're scummy/bad? Otherwise, your posting gimmick is restricting you from being a competent player.

[jjh927]

Oh you mean me that makes sense now

You not scum hunting at this point in the game has me worried you're scum.

I mean, it's post 340, and I think of you as a stronger town voice from my two games with you and you're pretty obvtown to me when you actually start doing shit that's towny.

But you're just sitting there on your hebi vote, and not actually pushing it, and I have no idea who else you're scum reading at this point in the game and it's post 340

Bullshit to that. When was I obvtown to you in paint threequel? I think you're remembering things differently to how they happened.

Considering spring fever is the other game you've played with me I have no idea how the hell you could still consider me scum based on meta

[jjh927]

VOTE: Fro99er

[jjh927]

Zach, why is Fro99er in your lynchpool


PEdit: Oh, since the meta tell has been brought up, Giga explained it but doesn't want me to say what it is and apparently Zach is like a hundred thousand percent town so that's a thing

[jjh927]

Bullshit to that. When was I obvtown to you in paint threequel? I think you're remembering things differently to how they happened.

after our 1v1

read up

Yeah except you flipflopped on that multiple times

[jjh927]

So giga/katyusha thinks Zach is town, you know they have a strong meta tell of Zach scum, and you're still okay with voting Zach?

I dunno. I don't like to rely entirely on someone else's read above my own, especially when I don't know their own alignment, I don't know the reasoning behind it, and I only have one example of her accuracy. But it's something; I'm mulling over.

Zach, why is Fro99er in your lynchpool

Are you expecting a good answer to this considering he has a total of 10 players in his lynch/vig pool?

jjh

- I asked you for reads, post them please.

Why don't you post your reads

[jjh927]

Bullshit to that. When was I obvtown to you in paint threequel? I think you're remembering things differently to how they happened.

after our 1v1

read up

Yeah except you flipflopped on that multiple times

and I've already flip-flopped on you multiple times this game

Fun as I am, I can see exactly one flip flop which has occurred after I reminded you that you flip flopped on me.

Are you hoping I will now reflexively townread you?

[jjh927]

Oi Frog, I thought the only person Gerry has actually dissected the play of besides calling people scum with no clear reasoning is Boon, who you currently townlean.

[jjh927]

Gerryoat, you giddy goat, go get your vote and take it elsewhere.
It's dumb to think I'm scum for having some reads when content's bare.

The reads themselves are content, see?
Without that list, where would we be?
It's vital to the early game
that one exaggerates what's lame
and finds the cause to disagree.

My statement in the second quote
was not just to explain my vote
but to respond to what Hebi wrote.

Is thirty-nine not content too?
I expressed a solid view
that I'd say time showed to be true.


Then at this point, I hit preview.
UNVOTE: Frogger, then VOTE: Thor
This wagon ought to grow some more.

[jjh927]

frog I pretend to townread you will you stop defending yourself for no reason

another thing.

I fold like an Oragami when I'm scum read and I'm actually scum (again, go look at HoH ... gerryoat would know). I don't defend myself. I pretend to ignore the scum read because I don't know what to do when I'm scum read as scum.

my town and scum meta are so far apart is laughable when people actually town read me when I'm scum.

whooooooooooo caaaaaaaaaaaaaaares

I do and this is town!Frog

[jjh927]

I'm reluctant because I don't want to have to go through the trouble of making a readslist. I'm very in-the-moment and 1V1 focused and so far the people I'm trying to engage with are taking their sweet time about getting back to me

[jjh927]

Spoiler:

It’s what popped into my head, so i said it.

What part of the deliberation exactly? Espeonage said he didn’t like i, don’t do it.

So you basicallytown lean everyone’s that posted minus hebi...?

There's no specific part. I just think you were actually deliberating whether or not it was a valid claim, as in, the deliberation process was true. If you were scum you would already know and would be faking deliberation. Not to say it's out of your scum range because I don't know what your range is, but for now you got a townread.

Do you think I'm townreading too many people?

was my explanation for why I TRed Boon at the time. He's basically never been much more than a townlean and has wildly fluctuated between townlean and scumlean but I'm not comfortable lynching there when I can place other people.


Fen, I'm trying to talk to Gerry and Katsuki, and maybe Thor though I haven't been as direct in that

[jjh927]

"I made a reads list and you decided you didn't want to so I'll shade you as lazy"

not good

It

IS

lazy. jjh has been one of the main wagons, and he's not giving any kind of content or opinions or anything useful.

I never said I expected him to do it just because I did, but I do want him to put some effort into the game and being readable. If he has no opinions, fine, but if he has them but just can't be bothered to share them, that's just bad play.

I'm trying to place people, not trying to help people place other people. There is plenty of time for me to share my opinions when I am more confident of them. Discussion is currently facilitated and I don't think me doing a readslist will help with making discussion better right now.


PEdit: Kinda. I TR a lot of people and I want Thor to engage more with the game, or at least with me. His reasoning for his level of activity being low in 692 isn't going to fly considering the level of activity in the game should be exactly what anyone would expect with the combination of site meta and team mafia hype, and the latter part of that post seemed a bit lamisty. I do acknowledge I misinterpreted what thor meant by "the sheep defense" as I was more occupied by Sheep's own defence of me, although something really doesn't sit right with why Thor would join my wagon in a PEdit based on those last pages, and I would ask him about this if he was actually posting.

[jjh927]

I haven't been the cause of any unvote or vote other than my own.

well, except JJ and hebi voting me.

And I went back to voting Thor after I placed you lmao

[jjh927]

What happened to your sheep scumread, Hebi?

[jjh927]

Actually, Frog, have you seen me play scum?

[jjh927]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=73434

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72816

Those are my two scumgames. The second is on a hydra with an IRL friend who I was trying to get into mafia, but he hardly played because he didn't really have time.

[jjh927]

Hiplop, Thor and one of the people I'm more null on is my best guess for the scumteam rn. Fenchurch would be a pretty solid shot but I'm not gonna do preflip associations there.

VOTE: Hiplop

This wagon is more likely to get somewhere.

[jjh927]

Fro99er is a hard townread rn, Katsuki is more town than a townlean but maybe not quite a hard townread and I want to actually communicate with him, and I don't know why you want to vig momo. I did just have to check your pools for that though.

I don't think I'm being difficult with you? I still TR you, have done for a while.

[jjh927]

No, I've been actively talking to Katsuki and Gerryoat about them voicing their concerns in my general direction so we can converse and I can place them. Should also help them to correctly re-place me.

I would like to talk to Thor but I'd also like him to talk more in general. I haven't made a direct "Talk to me post" directed at him yet.

[jjh927]

Okay Katsuki, no response yet to that first question. In that case, let's not make this a drawn out reactionary thing like I wanted it to be because that would have been more fun. Let's talk.

You've played with me on, I think, exactly one occasion- sexy brutale mafia. I was hydraing with Alisae and as such me and Alisae carried, but Alisae did most of the work.

What I remember was I ended up being on the wagon that lynched you, and that was really bad and Alisae yelled at me for it, but I think you did some pretty hard tunneling of your own on people who were town in that game while you were there. I think you're doing that now. You're tunneling but you're doing it without words and I want to compare notes but it's difficult when you aren't really saying things.


Since it was a hydra, I'm guessing you needed your memory jogged but I'm going to strongly suggest you try to remember how I play. And if you're noticing something wrong, then could you try to actually explain what that is rather than just pointing things out and implying they're scummy/bad? Otherwise, your posting gimmick is restricting you from being a competent player.

[jjh927]

I feel like reminding everyone that Hiplop exists with their current mindsets probably ought to do it

[jjh927]

I mean, fwiw, I reckon Hiplop switched to voting Espeonage when Cheetory told him there's no way in hell he can keep his vote on me without it being a scumtell when I'm obvtowning to anyone who understands my gameplay to the extent that Cheet does when Cheet is on his team.

I don't see why Hiplop would have tried to vote me in the first place, let alone scumread me, then switched to the main catalyst to my wagon on the grounds of the way they pushed me.

[jjh927]

I mean, fwiw, I reckon Hiplop switched to voting Espeonage when Cheetory told him there's no way in hell he can keep his vote on me without it being a scumtell when I'm obvtowning to anyone who understands my gameplay to the extent that Cheet does when Cheet is on his team.

I don't see why Hiplop would have tried to vote me in the first place, let alone scumread me, then switched to the main catalyst to my wagon on the grounds of the way they pushed me.

this is the solvey JJ I know

Its just "They should know I'm town!!!!!!!" in longform though.

No. Cheet objectively should know I am town. I am not saying that about everyone in the game. What I am saying is that that is something that would force scum!Hiplop to switch. They didn't personally come around on me, they were told that they couldn't push me and they found someone else to push, only it contradicts their earlier push of me.

[jjh927]

Hiplop, have you talked to Cheet yet

he thinks youre town so i went away from you.

[jjh927]

"went away from you" is not the kind of phrasing I would expect to convey that sentiment.

Honestly I'd rather he were here to fight this one himself, because it's a mindset eval thing more than anything

[jjh927]

Zach is town and also possibly Jesus

[jjh927]

Do you really want to be one of the guys who lynched Jesus the second time

[jjh927]

Wait, what cases on Thor are there besides mine?

[jjh927]

Can you describe loosely the "cases" on me and why you think they're good?
I agree with jjh - his is the only case, and as he himself is describing it - it barely exists and he is admitting to misunderstanding leading to half of his original case.
You were a solid town read for me.
Save my read by prodcing something I don't hate as an answer, please and thank you.

This.





But yeah, Thor, as I have admitted many times, I have not directly interacted with you yet, so we can fix that.

What was the deal with your pressure for the lulz vote on me that you never followed up anything on

[jjh927]

Fucking bullshit I'm sweating it, I'm suspecting it because you're supposed to mix pressure with your words and push people. It's an empty vote and I'm not getting lynched.

What made you vote me in the PEdit? What new post came to light that made you vote me?

[jjh927]

If there's an issue with my Momo read, it's that I'm making an assumption I should probably correct.

Momo, how do you feel about playing scum vs playing town?

[jjh927]

I think jjh's posts have opinions and content.

Upon further review, the quantity is there but I don't see it as quality.

Would you consider your own iso to be "quality"?

[jjh927]

Do you enjoy it or are you happier as town?

[jjh927]

Pedit this was @jjh:
The proper question when reading me is, does it look like I'm taking positions that I really believe, or made up because they are necessary to push a lie?
I don't know if it's quality. I know it's true which is what matters (for me).

That's always a thing, not just for reading you. That's the core of my scumhunting. Normative vs informational influence. I am a psychologist and I've got my eye on tells for this.

Your post is fluff though. If quality doesn't matter for you then why bring it up at all in relation to me? It seems like meaningless shade

[jjh927]

Katsuki is using images that originate from a source tied to Discord.

His bullshittery here is something planned alongside his team.

Let me think aggressively at him.

HMMMMMMMM

[jjh927]

Have you been fully reading the game, Katsuki?

Stabby guy for yes, gun guy for no, unless you can think of something better

[jjh927]

Alternatively look what I found

[jjh927]

Jj is trying to take the heat of himself

Yes that is a good place for heat to go

[jjh927]

Okay Katsuki, no response yet to that first question. In that case, let's not make this a drawn out reactionary thing like I wanted it to be because that would have been more fun. Let's talk.

You've played with me on, I think, exactly one occasion- sexy brutale mafia. I was hydraing with Alisae and as such me and Alisae carried, but Alisae did most of the work.

What I remember was I ended up being on the wagon that lynched you, and that was really bad and Alisae yelled at me for it, but I think you did some pretty hard tunneling of your own on people who were town in that game while you were there. I think you're doing that now. You're tunneling but you're doing it without words and I want to compare notes but it's difficult when you aren't really saying things.


Since it was a hydra, I'm guessing you needed your memory jogged but I'm going to strongly suggest you try to remember how I play. And if you're noticing something wrong, then could you try to actually explain what that is rather than just pointing things out and implying they're scummy/bad? Otherwise, your posting gimmick is restricting you from being a competent player.

Also I remember Alisae telling me I should let Katsuki lurk when I was being yelled at.

Oh, and honestly I don't know if your team would have cleared you doing this as scum considering a scum slot is way more valuable than a town slot in these games

[jjh927]

Eh would they knowing the wifom value? I don’t have the lineups tab on my tablet.
The huge problem for me is the lack of ability to clearly read intent. Barring a few exceptions part of town job is to identify themselves to other town.

You say that like at the end of it all, Katsuki isn't just using this gimmick for fun.

Can you see a universe in which Katsuki actually makes it to the endgame without either getting lynched or stopping the gimmick? Because I honestly can't. As much as the wifom value exists for day 1, it becomes as worthless as every other part of the gimmick as time goes by.

[jjh927]

you keep quoting 515 instead of giving a real answer

You keep missing the substance of things I'm posting and I'm not sure if it's intentional or out of ignorance

[jjh927]

I'd ask you about your misunderstandings about why I scumread Hiplop but tbh I'd rather not discuss that until Hiplop actually starts playing.

So what do you want to talk about

[jjh927]

I'd ask you about your misunderstandings about why I scumread Hiplop but tbh I'd rather not discuss that until Hiplop actually starts playing again.

So what do you want to talk about

Ebwop

[jjh927]

Okay, so what do you not get about how that my bar for what I expect of Katsuki is fairly low and I don't think his team would put him on a scumslot when he was planning to do this?

[jjh927]

Oh so hiplop responds instantly to people who aren't me. Got it

[jjh927]

Does "went away" mean "started townreading" or "begrudgingly stopped voting"

[jjh927]

And when Cheet explained shit you immediately transitioned to voting the person who started my wagon?

I need to understand your headspace. How did you go from being on the wagon to thinking parts of how the wagon was formed were suspicious?

[jjh927]

Imo Zachstral wasn't integral to the wagon formation

[jjh927]

I was wondering how long you were gonna let that pagetop sit there

[jjh927]

VOTE: Fenchurch


Hiplop, which is your preference of the 3 tied wagons

[jjh927]

Question still stands but I'm starting a new wagon. Not entirely sure why I voted Fenchurch there any more except to even out the numbers and I could have just said leading wagons

VOTE: Gerryoat

[jjh927]

Frog, tell me if I'm being insane here.

Gerry ostensibly has some good content, though I don't think there's lots of it, except when you look into it a majority of it is him saying other players are being scummy, right? He hasn't mentioned TRing a single player. Not one. The word "town" only appears in his iso in quotes. He's very commentatory and I think it's quite plausible that he's using the whole rhyming gimmick to avoid being metaed.

I reckon this could be scum that we've been overlooking

[jjh927]

Frog, tell me if I'm being insane here.

Gerry ostensibly has some good content, though I don't think there's lots of it, except when you look into it a majority of it is him saying other players are being scummy, right? He hasn't mentioned TRing a single player. Not one.

The word "town" only appears in his iso in quotes.

He's very commentatory and I think it's quite plausible that he's using the whole rhyming gimmick to avoid being metaed.

I reckon this could be scum that we've been overlooking

well, in the context of it referring to another player being town in this game, anyhow

[jjh927]

actually maybe I am being insane here

[jjh927]

What will the me that's been even more sleep deprived think though

[jjh927]

He isn't bleeding town like I was almost accepting he was, that;s the thing. Like, there could be more to it rhan me confbiasing my way through his iso

[jjh927]

He isn't bleeding town like I was almost accepting he was, that's the thing. Like, there could be more to it than me confbiasing my way through his iso

ebwop

[jjh927]

but yeah like Zachstral is Jesus and Fenchurch on review is actually just as towny as she has seemed because I really do think she's doing the scumhuntting thing and properly too, but there was something very organic about Creature TRing me through Sheep right from the start unless that was white-knighting but it seemed like more of a read than a totally 100% certain condident thing

[jjh927]

It's a meta tell and it's probably good but I mean Zach is town for other reasons anyyways

[jjh927]

wait I forgot about freaking Mulch TRing me based on meta when his only meta of me being town was that absolute anomaly of a game maybe that's a thing

[jjh927]

Uuh still maybe Thor, kinda Hiplop

People are being too town and I'm just having to start reconsidering people because I have too many townreads and the people that are still malleable in my reads aren't letting me tallk to them for more than 2 posts in real time.

I might turn around on Sheep

[jjh927]

Although Espeonage is definitely someone I can talk to but i'm not sure about what. Maybe talk to me?

[jjh927]

I hate "I might turn around on Sheep"

it sounds so forced

That's because it is and I'm running low on people who could be scum by poe

[jjh927]

Although Espeonage is definitely someone I can talk to but i'm not sure about what. Maybe talk to me?

Why are you flopping about when there's already competing wagons with you atm?

Okay, so I was very confident Sheep was town when a load of people started voting on him for outing his teammate's TRs on me. And I've been happy with Zach town for quite some time. And Fenchurch I just haven't really wanted to vote; I can't really see Fench being scum at all right now. And like, Zach is definitely still town, and Sheep probably still town and none of the wagons that I'm trying to start really go anywhere because I'm dialing back scumreads after the little bits of engagement I get with anyone I talk to so I'm all over the place

[jjh927]

I should probably sleep tbh but I have to be up in an hour and then stay awake for another 7 hours so I think that's maybe afternoon nap territory

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

Sorting this game is a problem for future me

[jjh927]

I'm awake again and I've slept and shit

[jjh927]

Sheep, I don't think I really knew what I was doing when I made that case for scum!Gerry

[jjh927]

no

[jjh927]

someone pls state intent at this point....zach has decided to duck our request for reads and stall his lynch....

UNVOTE:

Pls.

Still think zachs scum from ATE here, but dont want hammer yet.

and we're back to l-2

I srsly agree with sheep, the attempt to end the zach wagon is ridiculous

this only happens when someone is scum

to go from L-1 to L-4 to L-2 in only a couple hours

how do people not see this

I just want hammer tbh.

????

[jjh927]

Hebi's not exactly got much in the way of reasoning for voting Zach either. I think I could go for lynching her after all

VOTE: Hebichan

[jjh927]

How do you intend to deal with Hebi?

[jjh927]

I don't see you voting her or scumreading her or interacting with her or pushing her or doing literally anything in relation to her and also I think your scum, so no, I'm gonna try and get people to vote her.

PEdit: The fuck do you mean you don't trust other people with the hammer?

[jjh927]

Could you elaborate on your reasoning for wanting to lynch him? I remember you kinda TRing him earlier and right now you just seem to scumread all the major wagons

[jjh927]

Hebichan why are you not interacting with me AT ALL??????

Seriously we've played so many games where you trust me, work with me. Homestuck, that varsoon game. This one not only are you doing nothing but you're actively ignoring me.

This is like the first time you've asked them an actual question. You are responsible for your lack of interaction with someone you said you said you can place accurately.

Don't pin this on her right after I pointed out the flaw in your reasoning

[jjh927]

VOTE: hiplop

You're off the hook, Hebi, not that it lasted very long or that my hook is particularly scary by itself

[jjh927]

Those aren't proper questions directed at Hebi

[jjh927]

Eat rope

[jjh927]

Seriously though, you decided Hebi was conftown without interacting with her at all, and currently you don't think of her as a solid townread due to how she hasn't interacted with you- although you haven't significantly interacted with her, and if this interaction is so vital to how you place her then why did you call her conftown before engaging with her?

[jjh927]

Do you want to link me one of those games you've both been in

[jjh927]

oh i am PUNCHPABLITOINTHEFACE and Caira in that game

How are you two people

[jjh927]

weird game

Huh, so it was. Do you have a game where you're not masons with yourself?

[jjh927]

I'm after finding out how you two interact. I can't find out how you two interact from a game in which you're pretending to be 2 people and you're essentially an IC doublevoter with 2 lives.

Side note; if you want to prove you can sort her then you're going to need to show me a game where you correctly place her as scum.

[jjh927]

Jjh/zach/thor is my immediate instinct.

zach/fenchurch/jjh is my other idea.

maybe some variants where boon or dave exist there.

What happened to your steadfast Sheep scumread?

[jjh927]

Zach, Giga wants to know if she told you the tell already because she can't remember if she told you and if she did she's okay with you saying what it is

[jjh927]

Why do you keep asking me about sheep jjh?

I forgot I asked you the first time

[jjh927]

I didn't remember asking you but that doesn't mean I didn't want an answer at the time. I think I forgot because it was a good answer and I didn't need to flag it? The lack of sleep probably didn't help. I was pretty much a different person yesterday

[jjh927]

Hebi, why do you think Zach is scum?

[jjh927]

Zach, Giga wants to know if she told you the tell already because she can't remember if she told you and if she did she's okay with you saying what it is

-_-

Do I take that as a no?

[jjh927]

Hebi, why do you think Zach is scum?

His posts are more whiney and defensive than the game I played with him where he was a claimed miller and hes taking control less here than there. He was a lot more straight forward there.

Nah this is classic Zachstral

[jjh927]

Gerryoat, you giddy goat, go get your vote and take it elsewhere.
It's dumb to think I'm scum for having some reads when content's bare.

The reads themselves are content, see?
Without that list, where would we be?
It's vital to the early game
that one exaggerates what's lame
and finds the cause to disagree.

My statement in the second quote
was not just to explain my vote
but to respond to what Hebi wrote.

Is thirty-nine not content too?
I expressed a solid view
that I'd say time showed to be true.


Then at this point, I hit preview.
UNVOTE: Frogger, then VOTE: Thor
This wagon ought to grow some more.

Your tone is red, like the nose of a clown,
I say this cause you speak as you know I'm town.
Why do you appeal to me, if you think my reads are fake,
It's posts like these that are hard to shake.

I never said your reads were fake,
So how the hell is that your take?

[jjh927]

him being towny is great
it's what he does with it that isn't
If you want that in mid late or end game be my guest

Holy shit this is accurate

[jjh927]

Your tone is red, like the nose of a clown,
I say this cause you speak as you know I'm town.
Why do you appeal to me, if you think my reads are fake,
It's posts like these that are hard to shake.

You aren't moving away from this.
The misrep here is utter piss.
From where'd you get the misimpression
that I thought your reads were an invention?

[jjh927]

Oi Frog, I thought the only person Gerry has actually dissected the play of besides calling people scum with no clear reasoning is Boon, who you currently townlean.

I assumed this meant you thought my reads were fake,
Or was this a mistake and not your take?

That's my response to 8-5-4.
Why would you assume so much?
You quote a post, but instead attack one from before?
Honestly, that seems pretty clutch,
It being a misrep too is a nice touch.

[jjh927]

oh jjh was 1 more than me

top poster yay

It's not a competition

[jjh927]

should not be proud of that. can this day end?

No, because if the day ends soon it will be because Zach got lynched and that's a mislynch

[jjh927]

Why is what? That you guys want to lynch Zach? Or why is he a mislynch?

Most of my TR on Zach comes from a combination of the way he approached my wagon and my whole team also TRing him.


Thor could be a possible alternative right now, but I've been shopping around for some time

[jjh927]

Your logic is deeply, deeply flawed and only refers to why you more recently want Zach lynched when you voted him before he talked about his team

[jjh927]

Your logic is deeply, deeply flawed and only refers to why you more recently want Zach lynched when you voted him before he talked about his team

why is it flawed

and yes i agree im giving you reasoning why im fine w/ him dead not why i voted him

Your logic is flawed because it has far too many assumptions in it. You assume that it is impossible for 3 people (note that Zach said RC hasn't read the game) that are on the same team to TR Thor. Even that assumption relies on those 3 people not influencing each other's reads by discussing them. You then assume that the only other explanation is that none of them have read the game, and that Zach must be lying about their reads for towncred, and that this means he is scum. You assume Zach would lie about his team's reads in the event that they hadn't read the game in the first place. You assume that towngames are more of a priority to be read than scumgames when scumgames are more valuable because if you win those then less other teams get the win. Basically, it's really messy logic.


Are you willing to give reasoning why you voted him?

[jjh927]

Uh, no, it is an assumption.

Scumhunting doesn't matter to scum but looking like you are does, and if your teammates have read the game they can help with that.

[jjh927]

I mean, if you're that confident then join me here

VOTE: Thor

[jjh927]

jjh dont you scumread hip? why vote someone hip doesnt think is town and ask him to join you?

Well, I think Thor is scum and have done for a while, and the way Hiplop seems to be confbiasing at Zach seems almost unfakeably real. Like, I'm not doubting for a second that Hiplop thinks Zach is scum here which is making me feel a lot better about Hiplop, but Zach is still town.


Zach is a townread and I'm not gonna let you lynch a townread for dumb reasons

[jjh927]

Fwiw; of Zach's team, only Zach and Firebringer gave a read on Thor

[jjh927]

Okay, but why did you originally vote Zach

[jjh927]

Why did you just quote a whole load of my votes

[jjh927]

That's also one of a couple of stories explaining why I might go back to voting Hiplop, but why would scum stick to such shit tier reasoning for pushing Zach?

[jjh927]

I have no past Thor experience so I can't go off at all there, and tbh if we're going cases there's a lot for scum!hippo and I don't have anything particularly concrete on Thor


VOTE: hiplop I guess, starting a wagon with my top 2 townreads is probably good assuming Zach does join in

[jjh927]

id rather not talk to you

You have the right to remain silent

[jjh927]

okay im going back to sleep. espeonage should be dead when i wake up

If that happens it's because you're dreaming and haven't actually woken up

[jjh927]

Zach Lives Matter ;-;

This is better than you being Jesus

[jjh927]

I swear to god if you just fucking hammered

[jjh927]

You literally just lolhammered because you're worried you might get lynched when you have like 2 people who are voting you?

[jjh927]

Unless your role PM allows you to tell the future then you can just die

[jjh927]

I will avenge your death, Zachstral

[jjh927]

Wait won't you just come back to life in 3 days

[jjh927]

Actually, since I trust no one and am not actually pushing a Momo lynch over a jjh one.
Let's just say that if anyone gets a night result on me tonight.
Lynch Momo.

[jjh927]

VOTE: Momo

[jjh927]

Hullo

[jjh927]

Actually, since I trust no one and am not actually pushing a Momo lynch over a jjh one.
Let's just say that if anyone gets a night result on me tonight.
Lynch Momo.

Except this is a guilty

[jjh927]

Thor crumbed targeting momo so hard in that post it's basically a whole loaf of bread, and Thor would only be killable if he targeted scum

[jjh927]

momo is such a hardcore townread for quite a few people that i dont think scum!him would really benefit a whole lot from killing thor to minimize threats?
imo the thor nightkill doesnt look that bad at all for momo

This is a scumslip. There were two kills and Sheep seems to know which one was the scum nightkill.

[jjh927]

Well unless that's you slipping vig I guess

[jjh927]

We already have a guilty though

[jjh927]

Actually, since I trust no one and am not actually pushing a Momo lynch over a jjh one.
Let's just say that if anyone gets a night result on me tonight.
Lynch Momo.

Thor was a compulsive loyal hider.

Thor could not be killed if he targeted town.

Thor could only be killed if he targeted scum.

1361 is a hard crumb for targeting Momo.

Thor is dead.

Therefore Momo is scum.

QED

[jjh927]

Yeah I established that when I pointed out the scumslip sorry for making this whole thing happen where we yell at each other about things we agree on

[jjh927]

jj, it's a bummer zach got lynched, because we would have been a great town bloc the three of us.

I was so happy when we were all voting hiplop

[jjh927]

It's a guilty because Thor hardcrumbed targeting momo

[jjh927]

Thor is dead rn which means he either targeted someone who died in the night (which he didn't do because he hardcrumbed targeting Momo and Momo isn't dead) or he targeted scum and got killed by a separate action

[jjh927]

Looks like that yes

[jjh927]

We have a hard guilty on Momo because Thor wouldn't change his target after crumbing that hard, and a pretty strong indication that Sheep is scum too

[jjh927]

Were you neighbourised into this neighbourhood or was it there from the start of the game?

[jjh927]

Eddie says he loves you, Frog

[jjh927]

Eddie Cane

[jjh927]

tell me you see a world where thor is a vig and espe is a scumkill

Pretending it was an assumption doesn't get you out of it, considering you literally used Thor being the scumkill as a fact to try and wifom on Momo's behalf.