Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Titus]

VOTE: Firebringer

Awww I feel left out Shea

[Titus]

*feels old* Who?

[Titus]

Fresh blood. Yum! Say hi. I don't bite. Other things well...

[Titus]

Hi, Titus! Have I met you before?

I feel like I've met some of you before... But I can't remember.

Based on your join date, unlikely. Curiousity...what's my rep?

[Titus]

I’ve never seen this Titus person before either.

That's because you don't store a trenchcoat and a fedora in the freezer.

[Titus]

Btw I am gonna say GiF is my first townlean here, for no reason in particular except vibe.

Pocketed

[Titus]

As a team, we like Dunn's avatar. I like the red. Xofelf just likes it.

*watches players*

[Titus]

Can I? Yes.

Will I? Nope.

[Titus]

Can I? Yes.

Will I? Nope.

Ok but like I need you to.

Why?

[Titus]

Specifically if you could get into the part where you assume the alignment of the player who you are saying is pocketed that would be great.

I am so town.

[Titus]

Specifically if you could get into the part where you assume the alignment of the player who you are saying is pocketed that would be great.

I am so town.

Wait you're saying that you're there one pocketed? That's not how i read that post at all lol.

Yup.

[Titus]

Specifically if you could get into the part where you assume the alignment of the player who you are saying is pocketed that would be great.

I am so town.

Wait you're saying that you're there one pocketed? That's not how i read that post at all lol.

Pretty sure she is saying ur the one who is trying to look town with this questioning. Or maybe I am misreading.

Kind of agree. Think u questioning titus this early like this especially since its Titus is what the kids might call Lamist from you. But again maybe im putting words into Titus mouth.

I said nothing about Shea's alignment.

I like how one word generated chaos and I wasn't even trying yet.

[Titus]

Shea, who, besides me, is town?

[Titus]

Black, I have a 75% meta tell on you.

I'm deliberately going to let others post to see if they see it.

You remind me of me when I started.

Your only loss was a town game correct?

[Titus]

Your only loss was a town game correct?

Correct

And a meta read from someone I don't know? I'm interested

Who is your townblock?

[Titus]

Who is your townblock?

Like who I think is the most town? I barely have reads

I didn't say locktown. Town for now is fine.

Also

VOTE: Klick

[Titus]

Townblock this early way too soon. I only have one townread and its you Titus.
BUT SHOCKINGLY I HAVE A SCUMREAD THIS FAST AND EARLY.

Help me put Funnstral on the stand for the crime of giving us all amnesia.

Nope. I have quite a few gut town and scumreads. Just not playing dominate the thread.

I'll likely call my theory at end of day 1 if I have one I'm passionate about.

[Titus]

are you telling me u townread dunny boi

I'm not wanting to tunnel yet. I TR you, so I'm voting the opposing wagon to get data moving. I don't want to say my Dunn thoughts as I want organic game state.

[Titus]

@Black How do you feel about Feysal for proposing it?

Can you give me your mehs?

[Titus]

@Black How do you feel about Feysal for proposing it?

Can you give me your mehs?

My gut is to not like it but I think wolf and town could propose a massclaim, especially with the explanation in 146. But part of me wonders if Feysal would have ever brought up 146 if people went along with the idea

I'll tell you my mehs when they upgrade to hmmmmms

I just want reads from someone with her pulse on the meta.

[Titus]

I continue to think that mech conversation right now is a waste of time. If we do end up mass claiming there's no reason to do it right now and theres even less reason to make it a topic of conversation instead of trying to find scum.

Reads please

[Titus]

I think I've given plenty of thoughts and don't have anything I would describe as reads yet.

Spitball with me, you know you want tooo

[Titus]

Firebringer, can you be my HotFuzz?

[Titus]

I just want reads from someone with her pulse on the meta.

I mean if you wanna talk Newbie games I can help you out

If this was a newbie game, what would your reads be?

[Titus]

What do you think of Feysal proposing the massclaim Titus?

I have definite thoughts on Feysal's alignment...I want solid thoughts (even if weak) to bounce off from.

[Titus]

Firebringer, can you be my HotFuzz?

Need a translation

Do you have UK folks on your team?

[Titus]

Firebringer, can you be my HotFuzz?

Need a translation

Do you have UK folks on your team?

I have seen the movie hot fuzz. I am just not sure what you mean by this.
Also NorweegianboyEE is from Norway.

I need Saint Nick. Everyone is too gosh darn cute.

[Titus]

I'd also warn you (@titus) not to underestimate her. Black isn't your typical newbie. At the risk of inflating her ego she's really quite good.

I'd never underestimate anyone. I started similarly. I was 6 and 0 my first scumgames...so I got limmed as town a lot.

[Titus]

Black, I think is just that good. If only she'd talk to me.

[Titus]

Black, I think is just that good. If only she'd talk to me.

I'm being swept away for the night. Let's chat tomorrow or Monday?

When we can. Things must stew I guess.

[Titus]

Before team mafia started we had a conversation where I said I thought I would be pretty good at reading you since I've modded or played in most of your on site games.

I said at the time I would tell you if we shared a PT.

But I expected you to bring it up because if you're town you'd want to get town read. If you're scum though you'd have a really good reason to not ask me about my meta thoughts on you.

Ahhhh. I see. Well I don't expect anyone to have strong reads one way or the other this early and I also think it's kinda scummy to go looking for towncred like that. Feels desperate

Do you think I am desperate?

[Titus]

Meh

VOTE: Dunn

[Titus]

Sorry Fire, I want to vote Dunn to help you sort him but I can't do mental gymnastics to warrant a vote even an early throw a way one...

VOTE: Klick

Dunn, 3 reads please?

[Titus]

What specifically do you like Dunn?

[Titus]

Why? What is being pushed aside from semantics?

[Titus]

@Fire, I am resetting on Dunn for you boo.

[Titus]

Why? What is being pushed aside from semantics?

I'm not sure how to answer this. I don't agree with you, though; I'd need you to show me how they are only pushing semantics in order for me to explain how it's not, or if it matters at all. I generally like what they are doing, and can point to those posts.

I too can select posts from someone's ISO and claim they are "questioning/pushing things". If I am going to go to bat for you with my biggest townread, I need more.

[Titus]

titus will you give some thoughts of your own. I'm not loving this neutral thread interrogator role you seem to be trying to position yourself into.

When the time is right. I'm awaiting Black here specifically.

I will tell you know that I had concerns about you first but waffling. Fire is obvtown btw.

[Titus]

titus will you give some thoughts of your own. I'm not loving this neutral thread interrogator role you seem to be trying to position yourself into.

When the time is right. I'm awaiting Black here specifically.

I will tell you know that I had concerns about you first but waffling. Fire is obvtown btw.

This claim will only offend him.

Him being Fire? Well I can only work with him so much. I don't care what others think of me but I can't fake reads that well as town, even to obscure. I'm a shitty mason (that's not a claim).

[Titus]

Nope. I'm Investigator!Titus. The wrong answer is like pornography. I know it when I see it.

And with that note, I'm off to bed.

[Titus]

I have my first theory if Fire is correct, but I need more from FA StD and Drixx. I also need more sleep.

[Titus]

Do you think I am desperate?

No, I think you misunderstood. I feel like me running to Shea asking to be townread would've felt desperate and he was saying it's sus that I didn't do that

I kinda get where he's coming from. You didn't attempt to sort my professed meta read on you, which is odd given we've never played together.

Did Aureal explain how I use meta?

[Titus]

I kinda get where he's coming from. You didn't attempt to sort my professed meta read on you, which is odd given we've never played together.

How would I even sort that? I got no pings from you saying that

You said you had a read on me but wanted to wait for people to talk, then you started asking me questions. I just assumed you would tell me your read when you were ready

Not even curiosity?

There's a few different possibilities to people not me

1) Made it up for reactions
2) Town with accurate townread
3) Town with accurate scumread
4) Town with inaccurate townread
5) Town with inaccurate scumread
6) Scum hinting at the correct result
7) Scum playing dumb for cred

So much possibilities to sort and you're not even trying

[Titus]

Feels like lip service. What are you doing to sort me?

[Titus]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

Talk to me about Dunn's read on Black. Do you agree with it?

[Titus]

My patience is wearing thin Black. I am fine with FB TRing me. He and I go way back. He knows I have been interrogating you this whole time. The fact Drixx has sidestepped the obvious abnormal from me method of scumhunting is weird. My reads seep through despite my intentions not to.

Who is right in their read on you? Dunn or Shea?

Where are the reads I was promised?

[Titus]

Feels like lip service. What are you doing to sort me?

I don't think I've put much effort into sorting yet. I kinda let things build and develop in the early stages of the game and if I see something I do or don't like I'll usually comment on it, though I do keep some stuff close to me. My style early on is more asking questions and getting a feel for people rather than hypersolving, and I will say this game starting on the weekend has pretty much made me want to only live post and answer some questions directed at me so far

Do you think Feysal is scum btw? Our conversation about the massclaim didn't really go anywhere

If you've put no effort in, how can you say your questions are doing anything? Second, this posting doing nothing

but over explained

is a hallmark of your scumgame.

I've been sweet and abrupt trying to get ANY solid reads from you and I get repeated asks for conclusions, like you're pumping me for information.

[Titus]

Show me proof you're doing more than busiwork and not a deer in the headlights.

[Titus]

Black, I straight up don't tolerate people pumping me while refusing to give info themselves.

I have asked you for ANY fixed positions for ages and I keep getting responses that they later.

[Titus]

Also, can I get an answer to my question in 298?

Check up.

[Titus]

Shea, who, besides me, is town?

LAMIST coaching?

What does this mean?

LAMIST = look at me I'm so townie. Titus used an old trick with that post to Shea. Asserted being town and pressed for town reads. Many people reading that would feel pressured to respond, and the premise that Shea thinks Titus is town would be passively accepted.

There's also an angle there that Titus is capable of and would play as scum: tagging her partner to get them engaged in the game, and doing so in a way that looks like she is trying to pocket them, so that if she gets roped, the partner looks good on the later re-read.

I'm also concerned that Titus suggested I was sidestepping, especially after my first post.

Can I get your gym membership?

[Titus]

Ok Drixx.

You want engagement.

You Brick and Dunn is my current theory.

[Titus]

*Brick = Black

[Titus]

Ok Drixx.

You want engagement.

You Black and Dunn is my current theory.

I'm so glad we can try something new this game. /s

If you really felt that way, why were you objecting to me doing something new?

[Titus]

I will continue voting her just to annoy her when she does VCA later.

*grumbles and laughs simultaneously*

[Titus]

Also, can I get an answer to my question in 298?

Check up.

Do you think Fey is scum? I'm sorry if I missed your answer to this

No. Scum usually doesn't propose a massclaim the way Feysal did.

[Titus]

Ok Drixx.

You want engagement.

You Black and Dunn is my current theory.

I'm so glad we can try something new this game. /s

If you really felt that way, why were you objecting to me doing something new?

Quoting so that you know I read this post, but withholding response for now.

What do you think of TSQ, PB and Klick?

Shea town.
PB probtown
Klick lean town.

[Titus]

No. Scum usually doesn't propose a massclaim the way Feysal did.

How do they usually propose it?

They don't.

[Titus]

I had considered Shea early on, but his responses to Black and Dunn had me rule that out. Dunn's completely unmoored and inaccurate comments on Black's play were just wrong. Shea and I were pretty in sync on that being off. My team had felt Black's posting was hollow even before Dunn's read. Synergy in thought, not just conclusion, means a fair bit to me.

I'm ok with exploring FA and Klick more.

[Titus]

Drixx just is a BoP mostly. He should see Black is doing filler and that I was doing good cop into bad cop on Black.

[Titus]

He should see Black is doing filler

What type of content would you like from me? I feel like I'm doing just fine tbh

Reads. Solid positions, like the last few times I have asked.

[Titus]

From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though

Go on please.

[Titus]

I had considered Shea early on, but his responses to Black and Dunn had me rule that out. Dunn's completely unmoored and inaccurate comments on Black's play were just wrong. Shea and I were pretty in sync on that being off. My team had felt Black's posting was hollow even before Dunn's read. Synergy in thought, not just conclusion, means a fair bit to me.

I'm ok with exploring FA and Klick more.

How are my comments on Black's play "unmoored and innacurate", exactly?

Because they aren't matching with what's going on in the thread...

[Titus]

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

Thank you. It means something. I'm on my last hurrah most likely so don't equate effort with alignment.

If you think I'm town but say wrong shit, call me out.

[Titus]

No. Scum usually doesn't propose a massclaim the way Feysal did.

How do they usually propose it?

They just don't. It grabs too much attention

How does this post and “Feysal is scum” mesh together?

I am not putting much weight into that and or think its a town move just because scum don't do it almost ever.

It's enough for d1 for me but I have pulled almost every trick in the book so not lock clear.

[Titus]

From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though

Go on please.

It's not a very strongly formed thought
But the basic idea is that in Cosmos I felt like FA's approach was largely to question other people's takes as a means to develop her own view of the game and make it look genuine
It's different from a town approach in terms of motive for posting; the whole point of what FA was doing in Cosmos felt like it was to look town through having considered and nuanced takes that were developed by sort of hijacking other players' genuine thoughts and critiquing them
And here it feels very similar, I feel like almost everything FA has done has been a critique of another original perspective with only a couple of reads originating from something she has brought up herself

It all fits under this umbrella idea of 'I think FA wants to look town right now rather than actually doing town things'

Let's dive deeper. What reads feel sourced from FA? A sample that doesn't?

[Titus]

I had considered Shea early on, but his responses to Black and Dunn had me rule that out. Dunn's completely unmoored and inaccurate comments on Black's play were just wrong. Shea and I were pretty in sync on that being off. My team had felt Black's posting was hollow even before Dunn's read. Synergy in thought, not just conclusion, means a fair bit to me.

I'm ok with exploring FA and Klick more.

How are my comments on Black's play "unmoored and innacurate", exactly?

Because they aren't matching with what's going on in the thread...

This was not your objections earlier.

You were saying I wasn't going into enough detail. Then you said they were posting semantics but those weren't my words. How was what I was saying wrong?

Because you said Black "progressed the game" or similar non sense when she was bickering over agression. When called out, you hedged rather than defend the point. Black has refused repeatedly to be held to a position.

Black's play on mass claim is practically begging town to mass claim or offering Feysal up as a lim but doesn't commit to either angle. Black's feeling the room and has been.

[Titus]

Dunn, I literally just said that. You think town!LLD uses her precious words to restate what I already said?

VOTE: Dunn

@Klick, Thanks for the response. Will try to review in an hour

[Titus]

I am feeling rather ill today. Don't expect much.

[Titus]

We need wagons. How can I help?

[Titus]

I didn't say it directly before, but since we're both here right now: I think the player that is trying to pocket you is Titus.

What? She thinks I'm scum, isn't pocketing someone when you try to buddy them into thinking you're town? I'm not following

"Don't play the odds, play the man"

You don't pocket everyone the same way. People pocket me by being fun so I don't want them to die, for example.

Is antagonizing you making you think that Titus is scum? Or are you in a position where you have to prove yourself to her because she has stated that you remind her of herself when she started playing this game? Titus is scumreading you now, that doesn't mean that she will later in the game. She can slowly start agreeing with what you are saying and make it seem like a read that progressed with time. That's much more stronger than just saying "I agree with everything that Black has posted".

Maybe you don't feel this way; I think she attempted to do that, though. Win win scenario if done right, you are subverted to focus on how you look instead of how everyone else does, while unconsciously read Titus as town because of the progression between you two.

Holy conspiracy Batman.

[Titus]

if you want to scream at me I won't report you.

Just for old times sakes.

thanks but I've found that playing that way is incredibly stressful for me and not good for my mental health

and besides I'm in a better place in life anyway than I was in 2012 during the heyday of "FUCK YOU I'LL RIP YOUR FUCKING SOUL OUT AND WIPE MY ASS WITH IT AND PUT IT BACK IN YOU 1V1 ME RIGHT NOW YOU PIG FUCKING IDIOT" etc

It sounds like I missed the glory days of MS

You missed good times yes but you can likely make new ones.

[Titus]

Meh

VOTE: FA

I don't have the energy to fight the thread over Black.

[Titus]

They're definitely allowed to hate me. Sometimes town do.

[Titus]

I don't have the energy to fight the thread over Black.

Fight me over it then. Why am I scum? Let's hear that meta read of yours from Saturday

Why did it take so long to ask?

[Titus]

VOTE: Taly because he's the only one I recognize :3

Spoiler: scumgame 2

Okay, I have some time to post thoughts as I do a little catch up:

[Recap redacted as no spoilers in spoilers]

After catching up, I leantown Kawaii, hadriaaan, BBT. Pretty null on Dio and Herta. I leanwolf on skitter and patchwork.

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: Herta because you're cute :3

Spoiler: town Black

I agree with Petapan, but I don't necessarily think it's a scum tell. I've been guilty of trying to move past the early game joke phase in this way before

UNVOTE: redFF

I'm no longer convinced he's racist against Dwarves.

Interesting case against Gimli though. There were lots of people posting early and no one was really advancing the game, yet for some reason he only picked on furtive

I don't really see how Fire got Klick thinks MT is town from Klick's 184 so like I disagree with the premise of the push entirely. I'm not going to say I don't understand where he is coming from because I think I can but I feel like that alone isn't enough for me personally

This is exactly how I feel about the Klick push. It was built on nothing and then it steamrolled when MT went from voting Fire to joining his cause against Klick.

Alisae, your last post had 8 town reads. Any scum reads?

The word because isn't relevant. Black's early game is static hedges that do nothing. Her semantic fight over aggression did nothing. Her hedges say nothing.

Black has much more organic resolution as town.


Second, Black handled the mass claim just like noob scum. She wanted the massclaim but didn't want to be scummy for it. She waffled between the two hoping a town player would support it.

Same with her reads.

[Titus]

Titus if it helps i do think one of Shea/Black is scum and right now i would lean more towards Black but i don't know how to put into words of what Black is doing is scummy.

I just tried for my meta case. It's me doing meta but I feel Black has personality tells that readily distinguish the two but it's me and meta.

[Titus]

Is waffling on reads this early scummy really
Hollow Night Black struggled for so long and was very difficult to pin her down on most reads.

It's not waffling. It's hedging. For instance, Dunn is defensive is not a read. Black gave non descript responses when asked for reads and would let me know when updated when I was kissing ass. I suspect Black knew I had every intention of using her answer against her so she clammed.

[Titus]

Here are my most solid positions even though I wouldn't trust myself standing on these:

Dunn is probably my top TR. Originally I was a little skeptical of his entrance but I think his responses to pressure have been really good
Fey was also someone I was unsure about early because the way they danced around the massclaim and the slight overreaction to FB voting for Dunn. However I think Fey vs. FB looks a little TvT looking back over it and I lean town on them
Which means I also lean town on FB
I think Dragon has been pretty townie too. Add my name to the list
I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target
I lean town with Klick. I think his posting always gives me town vibes though so I'm cautious here
I'm not sure how I feel about Shea or Titus
I need to read over kuribo, GiF, and Drixx because I can't recall anything off the top of my head about these slots
I think Pink Ball and Blue are the two players that are the scummiest to me atm. These are weak reads but I don't like what I've seen from them so far

Part of me feels like this was too strong of positions for Town Black this soon.

Disagree with the strong positions. Everything is a lean but for Dunn.

[Titus]

If someone has a town meta read on you, it's a compliment and you shouldn't be frustrated. It should be to either work together or sort genuineness.

[Titus]

Dunn, did LLD tell you that this is the right time to buss?

I'd do Dunn as well but my health can't take fighting with LLD.

[Titus]

For instance, Dunn is defensive is not a read.

This was literally one of my first thoughts when I was first reading through the thread. It's a read even if you don't like it

No. A read takes a stance.

[Titus]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

No. And that alone isn't a problem. Almost all of your posting was "observations" rather than reads.

[Titus]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

No. And that alone isn't a problem. Almost all of your posting was "observations" rather than reads.

Then maybe you were too busy calling my 298 a scummy over-explanation to even digest it?

No. It's an overexplaination saying nothing

[Titus]

This is how I play the game. I make observations, interact with people, and push things when I see them

Even if I can't get you eliminated today, I got a good feeling you are scum.

[Titus]

Let them come. Always have, always will.

P.S. In the rare event I am wrong on Black, my PB read plummets.

[Titus]

Even if I can't get you eliminated today, I got a good feeling you are scum.

Just curious, how often are your meta reads correct?

I don't make them very often. Once or twice a year.

[Titus]

maybe game is Dunn/FA/Feysal

Need a fourth or 3.5 unless amnesia mechanic balances.

[Titus]

I feel like if any other player just randomly started talking about multiball for no reason whatsoever in the middle of day one I would just vote them immediately.

Yeah it's TM. Multiball not a thing.

[Titus]

Ugh seriously, we are going to get to 100 page bloat if we continue to discuss irrelevant crap. Makes me want to go judge Titus and start fines for contempt of mafia.

[Titus]

Townread:
Titus, Pink Ball, Kuribo, Firebringer, DragonEater70

To be sorted once I am no longer purely phoneposting:
Dunnstral, Thestatuequo, Frozen Angel, Black

The leftovers:
BlueSnakelet, Save The Dragons, Drixx

Oh I need to actually up the town bar and reread because I thought this person was a different person:
Feysal

Team thinks is town:
DragonEater70, Black,

Firebringer

Team thinks is scum:
Drixx

I skipped a name I know:

Drixx is there twice.

@Black, will catch up when health permits.

[Titus]

@Black, will catch up when health permits.

Take your time and I hope you feel better <3

This is what I eluded to in signups. I am low energy for awhile. If everything goes as expected, I'll vla at the appropriate time and tell you all.

[Titus]

pg 20
dont like drixx

Yeah I'm feeling this rn

I want to move on from Titus atm until she feels better

VOTE: Drixx

I am not likely to be 100% for some time. Factor it into my posting but don't treat it as immunity.

[Titus]

pg 20
dont like drixx

Yeah I'm feeling this rn

I want to move on from Titus atm until she feels better

VOTE: Drixx

I am not likely to be 100% for some time. Factor it into my posting but don't treat it as immunity.

Me thinking Drixx might be scum makes me more inclined to believe you might be town, so I'm not really concerned how quick you get back to me re: your motivations

My motivations are that I think you're scum but I can't prove it. We need wagons though. Not a single one has got above 3.

[Titus]

I have a problem with the gamestate. My scumreads are voting with me on each other but my townreads aren't.

[Titus]

My motivations are that I think you're scum

That's not really what I'm asking for. I want to know why you don't want to vote me/convince others I'm scum. But I don't want you to have to do this now. I'm totally fine waiting for this conversation

That's blatantly not true. I put forth a meta case on you. I described why I felt your posts had done nothing, which makes Dunn's TR problematic.

I'm not quietly backing off. I'm not saying you're town at all. No one really engaged that I saw (but I could have missed it).

[Titus]

Can someone do an unofficial vote count for me?

Xof likes Shea (as do I) and has softened a bit, but not completely on Black.

[Titus]

Xof (paraphrased) said that Shea is posting good things. Shea could be in their range but Xof doesn't think Shea would have such solid reads as scum.

[Titus]

but i'm also willing to vote frozen angel :thumbs up emoji:

Can you? I'd like to see wagons going and I much prefer FA.

[Titus]

Love how xoffy's read on me is shade. Love you xoffy.

That's not how Xof intended it fmpov. Might be translation.

Ty std

[Titus]

Xof really likes you Drixx. I listen a lot to my TRs and I know Xof is town, so that makes me feel a bit better on you.

[Titus]

why does xof like drixx?

Xof likes Drixx because of his posts naturally lead themselves to being accountable, particularly 955.

[Titus]

i dunno

fwiw I don't know either. But I'm ok for now with it. I kinda outsource my read on Drixx. Usually works well. Worked particularly well in Titus v. Alisae

[Titus]

I'm taking the night to be here. Please ping me as to what to look at.

[Titus]

I've never read something quite as tiring as Thestatusquo's and Drixx's case against Black. As I slowly read it, trying my best to extract meaning out from their drawn out sentences, the concepts I absorbed gradually began to bounce uselessly against the back of my head.

Fortunately, I managed to piece together what I believe to be the base of their case,

that Black is behaving differently from what her town play usually is

.

(If there's more to it than that, feel free to restate it. I'm not plunging into the depths of the last few pages ever again.

I do have a rebuttal: I played exactly one game with Black where she was town. It is a recent game, it literally concluded right when Team Mafia was starting, so I believe it to be a accurate representation of what her town play currently is. In the early game of that game, Black play was really similar to what she's displaying now. She was already playing a lot safer than the behavior described.

This is the exact opposite of my interpretation of Black.

[Titus]

The start of it. I quoted parts of it. The scum games look good but they're over explained and say nothing. The town games Black gets into very quickly.

[Titus]

The start of it. I quoted parts of it. The scum games look good but they're over explained and say nothing. The town games Black gets into very quickly.

The game I'm talking about is Newbie 2117. Did you quote from it?

No Hollow Knight Mafia.

[Titus]

@Black, I looked at the first few posts of that game and my point stands.

[Titus]

FA or Black, who is townier?

[Titus]

I figured it best to get into the NAI stuff here just in case.

Spoiler: What's going on with me

In late March I went to the ER for some scary symptoms. They ran tests and found only a chest defect I was told was cosmetic. It wasn't. The defect symptoms can, but don't always, get worse as people age.

I struggle with breathing and focusing sometimes. For a minute or two I get occasional blood oxygen crashes that immediately come back up.

The main fix is surgery. I am having my first meeting May 10th. Post surgery I should have a fair amount of mafia time as well. I am playing as a distraction. I am not subbing out. I am not auto town or auto scum for this. It's just setting expectations.

I may VLA and post at the time of surgery. My health is up in the air. Vanishing at any point is NAI.

[Titus]

Vanishing at any point is NAI.

okay but i think i am going to read your doctor as scum if you are gone too long

Fair. I hope you're ok too.

[Titus]

I figured it best to get into the NAI stuff here just in case.

Spoiler: What's going on with me

In late March I went to the ER for some scary symptoms. They ran tests and found only a chest defect I was told was cosmetic. It wasn't. The defect symptoms can, but don't always, get worse as people age.

I struggle with breathing and focusing sometimes. For a minute or two I get occasional blood oxygen crashes that immediately come back up.

The main fix is surgery. I am having my first meeting May 10th. Post surgery I should have a fair amount of mafia time as well. I am playing as a distraction. I am not subbing out. I am not auto town or auto scum for this. It's just setting expectations.

I may VLA and post at the time of surgery. My health is up in the air. Vanishing at any point is NAI.

Spoiler: OOG

If by any chance getting stressed out worsen the symptoms, please tell us if you start feeling this way. This a game after all, your health is a priority. Hope everything works out!

Will do but this game isn't stressing. We need wagons though. Smaller games already got them.

[Titus]

My take is DragonEater70 is town. Been town since his opening. I feel like the wagon is a diversion.

[Titus]

I admit I haven't read everything in detail but I recall someone asking for thoughts on Dragoneater. I have had them town since page like 2. It wouldn't hurt to have another look Friday.

[Titus]

Xof also says that he vibes with PB's thoughts on FA. The fight between Klick and FA was needlessly mean. Xof townreads Klick.

[Titus]

We need DragonEater70 to come in or sub out.

[Titus]

I haven't caught up but Xof wanted me to clarify

[Post]1460[/post] was needlessly mean towards her.

[Titus]

User error: Xof was stating the posts by others about you were too mean.

[Titus]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

[Titus]

Drixx, thoughts on my scumpool?

[Titus]

Seeing PB do that kind of effort makes me think DragonEater70 may need to be info flipped.

Note haven't read details.

[Titus]

Seeing PB do that kind of effort makes me think DragonEater70 may need to be info flipped.

Note haven't read details.

I disagree. That effort can come from scum, especially scum backed into a corner

And I think Dragon's responses to it have been townie so far

The votes being so scattered suggest this isn't true. Never seen PB wall like that.

[Titus]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

Why would DragonEater be scum with that list of players?

Objection to me pushing no opinion players vut demanding mine. Chainsaw. Only reason to fake really.

[Titus]

@Black, why is PB backed into a corner?

[Titus]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

Drixx, thoughts on my scumpool?

Just to make sure ... FA with Shea/Dunn/Black?

Yes with you as a long shot not today.

[Titus]

And if I flip town?

Slip? Wouldn't a town player say "And WHEN I flip town?"?

Pursued this many times. Not a slip. Mindset of thinking in the alternative.

[Titus]

Titus, can we talk about post 1553. What are you talking about in this post?

Yes. DragonEater70 wanted my reads before those I was questioning to give theirs. If he's scum, he likely was throwing a lifeline.

[Titus]

Titus have you had time to read my iso as you said you would?

can you elaborate why you even scumread me?

No.

Gut and relationships with my other SRs mostly.

[Titus]

Drixx, we aren't getting Cerby thoughts?

[Titus]

Drixx, I agree with 1 and 3. 2 creates a toxic environment and detracts from scumhunting. Suggestions sure. But I'm not going to do something stupid to coordinate.

[Titus]

So. Cerb finally had some time to chat and we talked about setup and what needs to be done. He and I agree on the following. If you disagree or think an assumption is wrong, please feel free to correct it. Attempts to prevent the general plan from going into effect will be met with extreme *Side Eye*.

Starting with Day 2, everyone must claim the ability they had the previous day, what they did/whom they targeted, and the result.

I'm on board with this. This is what Alisae proposed via Firebringer, and I don't recall anyone objecting.

I'd like to remind you here that even verified actions might not confirm a player as town, as I explained here. Scum JOAT was pretty much the worst case scenario I could come up with, but scum may have the ability to mimic some town powers.

In order to avoid giving scum the opportunity to dodge claiming and to provide opportunities for their claims to go awry on them, I suggest a random claim order that changes each day. I'm happy to go first every single day as the one proposing this.

This though I don't think is going to work. I get the principle behind it, but I don't think it is feasible to implement.

Consider this - I am on a different time zone from most of you, and the hours when I'm active don't match. It would mean that every time it came my turn to claim, or anyone else in the same situation, everything would be put on hold as you'd need to wait for me to get online. Add in the possibility of V/LAs and replacements, and it would get even worse. It would delay town discussion, while giving scum time to coordinate. I'd suggest simply claiming in your first post on any given day. We don't know in advance when the thread is going to open, or when we will be available - I might end up claiming first or last using this approach on any given day.

In short, good idea in theory, but a nightmare to put to practice.

It's not a popcorn. Just when you get on...

[Titus]

you know what this game needs?
Some firebringer light hearted shit posting posts.

Too bad i am exceptionally busy.

If game slows down. I promise to bring the fun back into this game.

My attempt to shit post.

[Titus]

Drixx, 1 and 3. When people get on. If a team lurks, we get suspicious.

[Titus]

Titus what do you mean by point 2. creating a toxic environment?

Mechanics people ordering others what to do or get eliminated.

[Titus]

It naturally causes the game to go mech over scumhunt when there's no promises we get the same roles tmo.

[Titus]

Ahh no wait, scratch that. I know what you mean, there's no way we agree in every single thing and discussions will be about mech instead of actual scumhunting. I mixed 2 and 3 together

Indeed. Also, town can be dumb on mech. I once capitalized on this by claiming a confirmed scum post on day 1. Sadly, I was not nominated for a scummy.

[Titus]

Drixx, there's a reason I'm outsourcing my read on you. You're oversimplying what happened in Space Dandy 2. It was a mechanics war. If either of us compromised, we won. Neither of us did.

[Titus]

This day needs to end.
Not only it would help me to actually catch up, the general vibe I’m feeling is that y’all need to see a flip. I’ll at least look around the Dragon wagin at some point soon (no guarantee on that being today cos today is my birthday) before the day ends.

This.

[Titus]

Happy Birthday!

[Titus]

Drixx, there's a reason I'm outsourcing my read on you. You're oversimplying what happened in Space Dandy 2. It was a mechanics war. If either of us compromised, we won. Neither of us did.

Do you really need me to go make a list of games where we've both been town and you insisted on scum reading me (or me and cerb) because you prefer to lose with us, than to us? I can do that, you know that it's not a super short list.

Also scum read is back. You failed the test.

Now I have to figure out how to 1v1 you without making the thread toxic. That should be all sorts of fun.

Ugh. Why are you making this personal? Case me how you want. Discredit me all you want. I don't care. I'll find the scum with or without you. I'd rather it be with you but individually, I doubt that is happening.

I'm not voting you, I'm outsourcing my read on you and yet you act as if I have some sort of mystical vendetta. I've townread you wrong, I've townread you right. I've scumread you right. We've run the gamut. I'm a flawed human being.

Go ahead and make your case for a vendetta. My response is like Rammus. Ok.

I don't have the time or the health to prove otherwise. If that makes you scumread me, so be it.

[Titus]

I'm moving my vote later today. I don't know where yet but we're stagnant with nothing to work off of for VCA...

[Titus]

I could do GiF.

Also, Drixx that's a misrep. You said I had a vendetta. I called you out. You then stated my response was a misrep when I was legit giving you the floor without fighting. I would never ever throw a game and I don't like my integrity questioned. You have the floor to back up what you said about me. We won't discuss Titus v Alisae (townread you wrong but outsourced and won), Suidoken (scum caught flawlessly) or any other game. Go ahead and post all about Space Dandy and how I'd rather lose than win with you.

I have people who aren't picking fights to work with. I don't care to bring up ancient dinosaurs.

[Titus]

VOTE: GiF

I feel hypocritical if GiF is town but my read is stale and we need wagons.

[Titus]

Pink StD Shea (if you're not there), let's make GiF a thing.

[Titus]

i think i'm suddenly not interested in ircher or kuribo atm

Reading between the lines, it's odd but I'll roll with it.

[Titus]

i want more content from you to determine your alignment is all because in the pick game you were easy to spot as town and here you're not\

i'm not saying you're 100% scum based on my feels man

Alright buddy, here's your content

Pretend I have a gun pointed at your head right now, tell me where you'd tell me to point it instead

If you answer "ircher," it's you.

i think it's pretty obvious i'd do drixx

I'd rather not Drixx day 1. He's useful regardless of alignment but I will.

[Titus]

Drixx, an invitation.

[Titus]

As was my titus themed rendition of "I miss the old Kanye" which no one commented on and I am still extremely upset by that.

? Where?

[Titus]

Someone townreading Klick tell me why that slot's town

Obvious solving.

Why won't you vote GiF? Why are you trying to start a fresh wagon?

[Titus]

I miss the old Titus, straight from the Go Titus
Chop up the soul Titus, set on her goals Titus
I hate the new Titus, the no post blues Titus
The not here mood Titus, not making feuds Titus
I miss the sweet Titus, give scum the heat Titus.

That is funny. I'm bringing her as much as I can. Not voting townreads. Saying I scumread people and being firm. I am trying to gain energy to fight and tunnel. Hopefully, I can get some in night phase to pummel tmo.

[Titus]

Someone townreading Klick tell me why that slot's town

Obvious solving.

Why won't you vote GiF? Why are you trying to start a fresh wagon?

I'M LITERALLY VOTING GIF

why don't you want me exploring other options while I'm doing that?

Sorry. Carry on. I thought you were voting elsewhere. Apologies.

[Titus]

VOTE: GiF

I feel hypocritical if GiF is town but my read is stale and we need wagons.

Anything wrong with this one?

Seeing PB do that kind of effort makes me think DragonEater70 may need to be info flipped.

Nope. I couldn't do it. I can corral on a null read. I just can't bring myself to vote a townread.

Do you TR GiF?

[Titus]

Someone townreading Klick tell me why that slot's town

Obvious solving.

Why won't you vote GiF? Why are you trying to start a fresh wagon?

I'M LITERALLY VOTING GIF

why don't you want me exploring other options while I'm doing that?

Sorry. Carry on. I thought you were voting elsewhere. Apologies.

Are you even paying attention to the votes? You want GiF murked but you don't seem to care who's on the wagon

I lost track. I want my townreads on it. I want to corral null reads. I was wanting to work with you and fucked up. I need VCs to keep track.

I'm watching more for objectors to see why they object to any given wagon to get info for later. I mistakenly viewed your questions as objecting. You could be shopping but you are right stale game is bad. Hence the apology.

[Titus]

drixx i appreciate the bridge i'm not always right on my reads. perhaps you will appreciate this paraphrasing of my read on you, i'm not trying to stir shit up at the moment, i am content pressuring GIF for now.

kuribo, since you asked,

my problem with drixx arose when i saw a couple of posts of theirs that looked a lot like scum just kind of popping in to produce content. it's something kowahbunga noticed as well when i asked him to iso dive drixx. but i kept a lot of my thoughts to myself and gave kind of a vague case, i didn't post a logic and facts TM wall that people of the 2010s liked. i didn't want to just post stuff that drixx would have a convenient answer to (which drixx had for the minimal stuff i did present), i wanted to see what he would do under pressure.

when presented with my vague case against drixx, drixx proceeded to ad hom me in a way that Thor666 did in Team mafia 2015. Thor666 was scum trying to discredit my read on him. This has happened to me numerous other times, people deciding they don't like the fact i'm scumreading them so they present arguments that i am stupid or bad and not worth listening to. this is a reliable scumtell i have used so if drixx is town and ad homming he is caught in something that reliably catches scum for me and should be able to understand that.

What do you think of Drixx's attack on me?

[Titus]

Spoiler: Drixx asking Why GiF and not Black

I am interested in why because to me I didn't love snakes content while he was here and he had like 20 posts and I struggle to see what Ircher has done that is readable at all.

This is a curiosity poke, please help me see what you're seeing.

I'm fucking telling you read between the lines

I get a general sense of the possibilities here. I'm just not super happy with an empty slot being given cover to continue being empty. I wanted to push Ircher to weigh in and take positions and give us stuff to work with. I feel like you gave a free pass not to do that

Drixx, an invitation.

To what? Why are you on GIF and not Black?

i want more content from you to determine your alignment is all because in the pick game you were easy to spot as town and here you're not\

i'm not saying you're 100% scum based on my feels man

Alright buddy, here's your content

Pretend I have a gun pointed at your head right now, tell me where you'd tell me to point it instead

If you answer "ircher," it's you.

i think it's pretty obvious i'd do drixx

sell me on it because every god damn time I try to go back and read the stuff I've skimmed I just come across another slapfight or a mass of words that don't make sense to my brain

You have the right of it.

I can agree. That slot was lurksack and Ircher hasn't made it better.

Might I suggest that being a lurker and replacing out could be related? As in, he realized he could not do right by this game, and left. I feel that is NAI.

The only thing I remember BlueSnakelet for is dropping his own experience with Black into the meta discussion. His flip would tell us nothing relation-wise. Neither would GIFs.

None of that changes that the slot is an empty shell atm and it would be useful to get Ircher to contribute.

Simple version, GiF has support and less utility. My team isn't as sure on Black. I'm leaning on them a lot but only voting where I feel acceptable. I can override them but I'm not fighting my team and the thread.

[Titus]

I wish I had someone on my team more familiar with Drixx. The scattershot StD me Ircher Black is a bit weird from him. Not sure if AI though.

[Titus]

Do you TR GiF?

I do not. I have no read at all. But I am still reluctant, because that flip would tell us nothing.

Who are you voting? What are you doing to progress the game?

[Titus]

I'd love ItalianoVD and Malakittens to give feedback, even if imperfect.

[Titus]

StD can we just call you Daddy Dragon?

[Titus]

True. Especially if that's t v s. I doubt it is though.

[Titus]

Who are you voting? What are you doing to progress the game?

DragonEater. And that is no pressure vote, this is the slot I would like to see executed, I've seen enough.

But since nothing is happening there, I'm talking to and looking at other people.

Meh I'm ok with your vote on DragonEater70 strategically. Having dueling wagons will help for info.

Why do you think it stalled?

[Titus]

Thinking about things, I think only info roles claim. I don't see good coming from docs claiming tmo.

[Titus]

Thinking about things, I think only info roles claim. I don't see good coming from docs claiming tmo.

I think half measures make it way too easy for scum to hide, which defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

Normally, yes. Scum cannot claim a role that doesn't exist later. We protect town from scum knowing our protection or stoppage. Massclaim also lets scum fake easier bc they know what invests are present.

[Titus]

If that's still confusing I'll clarify when not driving.

[Titus]

Thinking about things, I think only info roles claim. I don't see good coming from docs claiming tmo.

It would confirm the existence of the role. It could prevent a later situation where people have to debate whether there really was a doctor, should one have something to reveal later.

True, but each claim gives scum knowledge too.

[Titus]

I'll catch up in a second but I want to late out more nuanced thoughts on massclaim first.

Proposition 1: Massclaim all roles and actions every day.

Assumption: Roles stay the same day to day.
Pro: We know exactly what roles are in the game or there is scum in the VT claimers.
Pro: Scum find it harder to fake claim.
Con: A smart scumteam can still fake claim existing roles to complicate things.
Con: The scumteam know the exact capabilities of town any given day and have perfect planning for night actions. They have at least 12 people to come up with the perfect mechanical solution.

Assumption: Roles can change day to day. (Meaning a tracker shows up where none existed, cop removed, modifiers added etc.)
Mass claim every day for the prior night just becomes the smart play as past roles cannot determine future actions.

Proposition 2: Claim only roles with guilties or innos, successful protections, kills (vigilante, PGO etc) and negative utility roles (Alien/Commuter/Compulsive).
Pro: We gain information that is necessary in the short term.
Pro: Scum don't know what protectives are in the game (Doc, jailkeeper, bulletproof etc) until a kill is successfully blocked.
Pro: Scum can't night plan around what they don't know exists unless they roll it themselves some night.
Neutral: We can't dictate every single action. I find this a pro as we can't force a particular action so mech talk is less.
Neutral: Scum can fake claim, but they'd have to rely upon the prior holder being dead as an excuse. They run the risk of CCing a townie who is alive. (Assumption: Roles don't rerand.)

Unrelated Mech note
Follow the innocent is a thing in this game. If there is a cop, they check someone. Then someone else checks that cop. We hope to hit town. If we always hit town, then scum become boxed in. Suppose the following, Adam is town. Adam checks Brian who is town. Charlie then randoms cop. Charlie checks Brian who is town. That means if Charlie dies after his result and flips town both Adam and Brian are conftown.

This mechanic likely won't work if scum know what protectives are in the game as they could counter it.

I'm strongly in favor of proposition 2.

[Titus]

VOTE: DragonEater

Did you ever express a scumread on DragonEater? This feels oppositional just to be oppositional.

[Titus]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

[Titus]

Klick's readwall lends it self easily to the rule of 3 and is very tempting.

[Titus]

Whats the rule of 3??

I'm shocked you don't remember this. Anytime a scum mentions three or more slots, there's a likelihood one of them is scum. In this case, there would be a scum in the green names, a scum in the light green names, and a scum in the yellow names. This would suggest that one of my SRs on Black or Drixx is wrong. I'd likely change over to an FA/Black or Drixx/Keysal based on interactions. (I'm supposing 4 scum).

It's not absolute as the GiF partner is a decent theory. However, it could be a whiteknight pocket. Based on the rule of 3, I'd just exclude or investigate GiF after a Klick flip.

[Titus]

I'll catch up in a second but I want to late out more nuanced thoughts on massclaim first.

Proposition 1: Massclaim all roles and actions every day.

Assumption: Roles stay the same day to day.
Pro: We know exactly what roles are in the game or there is scum in the VT claimers.
Pro: Scum find it harder to fake claim.
Con: A smart scumteam can still fake claim existing roles to complicate things.
Con: The scumteam know the exact capabilities of town any given day and have perfect planning for night actions. They have at least 12 people to come up with the perfect mechanical solution.

Assumption: Roles can change day to day. (Meaning a tracker shows up where none existed, cop removed, modifiers added etc.)
Mass claim every day for the prior night just becomes the smart play as past roles cannot determine future actions.

Proposition 2: Claim only roles with guilties or innos, successful protections, kills (vigilante, PGO etc) and negative utility roles (Alien/Commuter/Compulsive).
Pro: We gain information that is necessary in the short term.
Pro: Scum don't know what protectives are in the game (Doc, jailkeeper, bulletproof etc) until a kill is successfully blocked.
Pro: Scum can't night plan around what they don't know exists unless they roll it themselves some night.
Neutral: We can't dictate every single action. I find this a pro as we can't force a particular action so mech talk is less.
Neutral: Scum can fake claim, but they'd have to rely upon the prior holder being dead as an excuse. They run the risk of CCing a townie who is alive. (Assumption: Roles don't rerand.)

Unrelated Mech note
Follow the innocent is a thing in this game. If there is a cop, they check someone. Then someone else checks that cop. We hope to hit town. If we always hit town, then scum become boxed in. Suppose the following, Adam is town. Adam checks Brian who is town. Charlie then randoms cop. Charlie checks Brian who is town. That means if Charlie dies after his result and flips town both Adam and Brian are conftown.

This mechanic likely won't work if scum know what protectives are in the game as they could counter it.

I'm strongly in favor of proposition 2.

proposition 3: Massclaim who everyone targeted without claiming action. or claim not targeting anyone. This sets up the ground for a mass claim on later phases where scum might get caught in a lie.
Pro: No one will know what roles was used by who so existance of town utility will stay hidden from scum (unless if they have investigation roles to search for some utility on their own)
Pro: People cant change their claims later on when they have more info about existing roles in setup. This makes it hard for people to find a fake claim that fits the narrative.
Natural: This has same natural status as proposition 2.

I really think we need to claim targets every day and not necessarily the roles themselves. This setup requires a mass claim on later days probably and claiming targets can trap people in certain narratives where scum gets caught regardless - and still people will have the freedom to use their roles as they see fit.

I'd be down for combining 2 and 3. We still need guilties or innos in the open.

[Titus]

Whats the rule of 3??

I'm shocked you don't remember this. Anytime a scum mentions three or more slots, there's a likelihood one of them is scum. In this case, there would be a scum in the green names, a scum in the light green names, and a scum in the yellow names. This would suggest that one of my SRs on Black or Drixx is wrong. I'd likely change over to an FA/Black or Drixx/Keysal based on interactions. (I'm supposing 4 scum).

It's not absolute as the GiF partner is a decent theory. However, it could be a whiteknight pocket. Based on the rule of 3, I'd just exclude or investigate GiF after a Klick flip.

are these linked reads assuming klick is scum?

pedit: that's a given, guilties and innoes must always be claimed anyway

Yes. They're applications of the rule of 3 but changing my current reads slightly. I'm not sure on you though. Could easily swap you for Dunn. In fact I think I will do that.

[Titus]

FA, will you join me on Klick or are you deadset on DragonEater? I don't like Klick's trajectory on DragonEater which gives me real reservations.

[Titus]

Drixx, you really have no response to me and FA discussing pros and cons? I feel you're being oppositional just to be oppositional here. Where's the nuance? I've felt DragonEater was town since the start of the game. I'm listening to others though. That's why I'm not in favor of derailing the DragonEater wagon completely. If I'm wrong, that's useful information too. I'm not 100% certain on DragonEater town and you're making it sound like I'm hard defending him. What I really want is the game to get going and opinions discussed. Every time I discuss something you oppose it or say that I'm trying to rescue someone. You're always arguing a negative interpretation which makes me wonder what your agenda is. Especially pursuing Proposal 1 which is great for you because you're smart enough to lead a scumteam with information about town's protective roles. The fact you claimed hidden information may motivate some of your decision making but I can't see how it leads to this. I feel if you're town you're carrying serious baggage. Your positing here is absolutely inconsistent with the chess match I was hoping to play. The Drixx I am used to is much more nuanced and analytical in his approaches. I'm not getting that here. I'm getting a bulldog. Anger is my weakness and I know it, so I have to balance that out. Something about you is off, my team agrees. They think it's anti-town off but definitely off here.

[Titus]

FA, if you're still here, I'd like to discuss worlds with you.

I don't see DragonEater as scum unless it's with Drixx who is positioning to have his proposition go through and to remove criticism at the same time.

Meanwhile I have major reservations on Klick based on the last few pages.
First, he didn't vote the GiF wagon despite GiF being low on his reads.
Second, he voted for DragonEater with very little progression or rationale for doing so.
Third, his spat feels very artificial (weakest point).

It lends some credence to the Klick + GiF theory. However, it's not my favorite. My favorite is that Klick wants to oppose kuribo because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar fishing and forgot about GiF as a scumread or wanted to save it for later. So he tries to push over the major wagon.

So worlds
DragonEater + Drixx
Klick + GiF,/Dunn/Black or Drixx
Klick/Dunn/Black or Drixx/Feysal <--- this one is the most likely if Drixx is town.

[Titus]

PB, your comments are welcome as well.

[Titus]

VOTE: Klick I realized I hadn't done that.

[Titus]

FA, Fair enough. I am a theory crafter. I use theories to check my work. If something doesn't work with my theory, that means I went wrong somewhere. I used to push my theories super hard and ignore counter evidence which is a bad approach. Your tone, now that you're not riled up, feels much townier in nature. I can see from your perspective that me plus DE is a possible world knowing my tendencies and my reptuation. How I would defend DE is different if he was my partner. Namely, I would use the thread to defend DE for me. Scum!Titus gives people what they want. Town!Titus goes for what's correct. In my opinion, DragonEater is a bad elimination. The opening was too strong to ignore in my opinion. That being said, I'm aware I'm wrong. I'm not going to stop pushes on DE in case I am wrong (because I can't prove it and don't 100% know). Regardless of who is eliminated, we finally have wagons to work with. I'm not trying to "rescue" DE. I'm pushing the target I want. If I lose so be it. More info for tomorrow.

Shea, I totally understand that. We can't really be split as a town though. I've got good strong and not stale townreads on most of the game. The goal is to unify us to block out the scum.

[Titus]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

Evaluate everyone who took a hard stance on way or the other. Scum have been known to white knight for town slots for later cred, so it's not necessarily a world where if DE flipped green, the people counterwagoning get to be clear.

Thinking about this answer a bit I don't like it.

It's kind of like I asked you for directions to somewhere and you responded "go google it."

Like yes all of this is true in a vacuum but clearly I wanted more than this, like what you THOUGHTS are about WHO fits what roles in that general pattern.

This is what I talked about when I said the nuance is missing from Drixx. Drixx can discuss alternative scenarios and what happens in each scenario. Here, he just seems lacking. I'm not seeing a chessmatch that I was expecting when I drew Drixx this game. I came to play chess and Drixx is playing Madden.

[Titus]

FA, are you asking for a readwall? I tend to read players in relation to each other. I no longer think DE was a wagon to save you. While it's a remote possibility, I would not expected to see the game stagnate with no one pushing that hard for either wagon (PB excluded but he was for DE).

GiF push was a meh it's possible, my townreads are okay with it and it got the game moving. We need 8 to lim and can't get above 4 because everyone has their pet project. It's like herding cats.

DE was my first real townread. If you look at the first 5 pages, I lay it out there.

[Titus]

I've noticed a pattern this game where you keep trying to like...idk minimize the things I'm saying? And it's annoying me and also making me feel like you're trying to subtly derail my solving or at least stop people from listening to me. So you're probably picking up on that feeling from me. It's super contributing to me not being able to find you if you're town. And if you are town it makes me wonder if you just don't respect me very much as a player? That's insecurity but these are the thoughts that have been popping into my head every time I've interacted with you.

Who is this to? If this is me, I'm sorry.

[Titus]

Klick, which citation was your favorite in PB's case?

[Titus]

The wagon on him has literally already accomplished something.

This is true.

[Titus]

FA, are you asking for a readwall? I tend to read players in relation to each other. I no longer think DE was a wagon to save you. While it's a remote possibility, I would not expected to see the game stagnate with no one pushing that hard for either wagon (PB excluded but he was for DE).

GiF push was a meh it's possible, my townreads are okay with it and it got the game moving. We need 8 to lim and can't get above 4 because everyone has their pet project. It's like herding cats.

DE was my first real townread. If you look at the first 5 pages, I lay it out there.

nah not read wall, just like being pointed in directions so I can follow your thought process better.

I honestly don't see how what was in first 5 pages made you think they are almost "conf town" the way you treated them later on during game. though you retracted from that stance now at this time.

I understand your intention for getting some wagons going, I just am curios if there was more for the choices you had for wagoning than just that.

My choices on wagoning are preferences based on my reads. I view it most important just to get wagons going. Unless I am rock solid on someone being town, then I yell and holler. I want dueling wagons even if I disagree as that provides more power for later. Day 1 is the most important day but it's not urgent to get it right. It's urgent to get town working together in a nontoxic way.

[Titus]

Firebringer
Frozen Angel
Kuribo
Pink Ball
Save The Dragons
Thestatusquo
Titus

This is a decent townblock for day 1. It's only 7 names though and we need 8 to get an elimination through. I'm not including my highest reads, but I think everyone on this list townreads each other to a certain extent.

[Titus]

You would lim a claimed Mason?

How does being a mason clear kuribo in this setup?

Masons are required to be town. We only worry about Kuribo if and when we reach elo plus one day.

[Titus]

It's still theoretical that kuribo could be scum with Ircher but very very remote.

[Titus]

Are we finally doing Black now?

[Titus]

VOTE: Black

[Titus]

You would lim a claimed Mason?

How does being a mason clear kuribo in this setup?

I think this is genuine and betrays a mindset only town could have.

No. It's scum fishing to limit clears. We have an insane town core atm

[Titus]

How is that fishing?

We have a group of 8 or so locktowns (in common parlance). By not accepting common sense, Black is trying to keep kuribo and Ircher limmable.

[Titus]

So Feysal town etc

99.999% yes.

[Titus]

Intent to hammer.

[Titus]

So we have Kuribo Ircher and Feysal as likely town.

If we get all three of them to agree on a wagon, that would be much easier.

I townread Kuribo, PB, Firebringer (weaker), FA, STD, and Shea. I townread DragonEater too but not opposed to the lim given gamestate.

PoE: Drixx, Klick, Dunnstral, Black, GiF

As for a meta debate, I'm ok with that. I could be reading Black wrong but I feel the openings of Black are so distinctive. I rarely meta but I just feel that to be the case.

[Titus]

I just took a dive onto concrete. At urgent care.

Oh my god. A day kill. That hasn't been a thing since 2007.

[Titus]

On a serious note, a Drixx flip is useful.

[Titus]

I'm sorry Drixx if you legit feel this way. It wasn't my intent to make the game unfun.

[Titus]

Post game if you could tell me what I did, that would be great.

[Titus]

I'm going to hammer after doctor unless someone objects.

[Titus]

Still waiting on doc. Somehow a busted face and a bum knee got put to the back of the line