Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Sup nerds
VOTE: Hu TaoShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them
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Free real estateShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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I haven't played any of the other hoyo games but that makes sense if the pfp is of the character hu taoIn post 26, Altaria wrote:
hu tao is from genshinIn post 21, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them
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Yo where is everyone?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Also @Altaria tell me about DrewShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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And Umlaut should be voting Drew why?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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That's generous.In post 49, Altaria wrote:i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut
why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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It looks pretty clearly like it was RVSIn post 51, Altaria wrote:
what's your interpretation of it?In post 50, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
That's generous.In post 49, Altaria wrote:i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut
why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Wait is "she" in this post Hu Tao and not me? I misread that if soIn post 49, Altaria wrote: i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut
why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Like I thought I was she and that the vote in question was Altaria's first vote on Doctor Drew which is obviously RVS which is why I was offended you thought I thought your vote was not RVS.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Asking about your Drew read though - you're saying that as of post 33 you have a read on Drew? That seems hard to believe, and even if it were the case that from that short exchange you two had, you garnered a read, I would expect some kind of material response to why Umlaut should be voting drew, not "because he's scum" or maybe even a material response when I asked you to tell me about Drew. Something feels off hereIn post 49, Altaria wrote: i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut
why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?
VOTE: AltariaShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Why call it "my drew read" in 49 though?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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I can see how you get to that verbiage but it's not what I was asking. I didn't presume to think you had an actual read, it was just banter. What concerned me is you later called it a read. I think that's due to my meaning being misunderstood more than anything though based on this last reply. I don't think there's any point in my continuing to nitpick on this.In post 68, Altaria wrote: because you were asking for my read on drew
UNVOTE:She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I don't think I've got any good vibes yetShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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VOTE: Galron I thinkShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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VOTE: Doctor DrewShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I think that makes the votes like this, with 6 to eliminate that is E-2 Drew
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interesting that was not the longest wagon
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I think you're hard pocketed tbh - I don't think Drew's been that helpful for how much he's posting and I think his vote on Dragon felt very "gotcha" and at the same time like he's trying to dictate how Dragon should be voting. I don't really think anyone should be dictating at this stage, nobody has the towncred for it, and I think Drew is trying to powerwolf here
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Are you asking why I think Drew is pocketing you and not pocketing Dragon?In post 278, Altaria wrote:my thoughts exactly
why do you think drew is pocketing me and not dragon?In post 276, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:I think you're hard pocketed tbh - I don't think Drew's been that helpful for how much he's posting and I think his vote on Dragon felt very "gotcha" and at the same time like he's trying to dictate how Dragon should be voting. I don't really think anyone should be dictating at this stage, nobody has the towncred for it, and I think Drew is trying to powerwolf here
Or are you asking why I think Drew is pocketing you and why I don't think Dragon is pocketing you?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Well after I was pinged by the Drew vote that felt "gotcha" to me I went and looked back at Drew's posting, not so much at Dragon's, so if it's there I didn't see it. I'll look shortly.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I think this is the only post that could be construed as buddying/pocketing. Yes Dragon asserts an early TR on you but he isn't hamming it up for you or even really that focused on you or what you're doing when compared with other slots. With Drew it feels like a performance.In post 143, DragonEater70 wrote:
You see, you aren't the only Alianna alt this gameIn post 141, Altaria wrote: wait where did the second "n" go? is this a mandela effectShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Oh I see you also wanted to see where I see Drew is pocketing you, I assumed that was obvious and the focus of your question was on Dragon. That will have to wait until after lunchShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Many of these posts are going to seem innocuous on their own but must be viewed as a whole to paint the picture I'm seeing here.
The nicknaming is something that was exclusive to your slot before the real Aliana replaced in, and by itself is a way of getting more friendly. Not AI by itself but when he's only nicknaming you it looks odd/intentional.In post 13, Doctor Drew wrote:This feels like a name I would call Alianna.
You are too easy to expose, Amaretto
Another nickname and it's in a joking tone, but the message itself if you strip the tone is openly scummy and maybe the joking tone is just a mask here. That's what I'm thinking when piecing this all together.In post 16, Doctor Drew wrote:
Well I am not gonna think you are town if you are voting me, AngolaIn post 15, Altaria wrote:
i will be your alianna as long as it makes you think i'm town and you'll let me pocket youIn post 13, Doctor Drew wrote:This feels like a name I would call Alianna.
You are too easy to expose, Amaretto
I could say pretty much the same thing I did about the last post, about this post as well. Still joking (and this is RVS, so sure) but he's sort of latched onto telling you he is not scum which is like ??? It's a little too much for me.In post 18, Doctor Drew wrote:
Alianna wouldn't be so sure of herself.In post 17, Altaria wrote: but you're scum
i think alianna would vote for scum if she were town here
So maybe you are the scum!!
This is presumably about 35 wherein you (Altaria) vote gob but maybe is somehow in reference to 32 (doubtful). It's just a nonsense post - 'you're off [the mark] here, [but I'll sheep you anyways]'. Makes a lot more sense when you look at it from scum!Drew POV where this is an attempt at buddying up and voting with you but also it's a subtle negging. Like it may not feel that way because Drew's joking around with you but that's what the words are pointing to and it feels like he's more focused on taking control of you than finding scum.
And when someone else is extending a townread to you Drew has to get in on it, like he should be the only one there for you. Feels like that is the sole purpose of his interactions with you, to manipulate your perception of him. It does not look to me like he is sorting you.In post 86, Doctor Drew wrote:
I will ask in our PT how he got there and get back to you.In post 85, Altaria wrote:
i mean he's right about me but i would like to see how he got thereIn post 84, Doctor Drew wrote:I feel like Dragon is a hot take sort of player
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In post 294, Altaria wrote: i find it a little strange how both kyouko and dragon came in with the "you're being pocketed by drew" angle. if one of these flips scum I would be inclined to believe the other could also be in that pt
288 is almost all quotes about Aliana btw so if we were buds idk if he mistakes you two. Probably makes him not buds with either of you though if he is scumShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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This is about DragonEater btw, for the ISO diversIn post 305, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
288 is almost all quotes about Aliana btw so if we were buds idk if he mistakes you two. Probably makes him not buds with either of you though if he is scumIn post 294, Altaria wrote: i find it a little strange how both kyouko and dragon came in with the "you're being pocketed by drew" angle. if one of these flips scum I would be inclined to believe the other could also be in that ptShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.
So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town hereShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I used to, but not anymore.In post 321, gob wrote:
Do you play super smash brothers melee?In post 317, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.
So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here
I would like to hear this towntell later in the game. I feel like I have many tells, but most people do not read me critically. Which is by design.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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What was the vibe like and how is it feeling similar here? I started reading on my phone and I'm not picking up on that at all really.In post 325, Celebloki wrote: I'm actually getting a lot of deja vu reading this game from Open 890. Except this time instead of Drew using Alianna as his mod audience, he can interact directly with her. And the vibe between DE and Drew seems similar too.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Maybe I need to try deeper into 890 thoughShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Get deeper* autocorrectShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Why are you voting Dragon Hu?
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Hadn't seen this - is this the reason?In post 362, Hu Tao wrote: I think we need a flip. This game seems ro be the same conversation in different ways to me.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Who do you townread?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Ok fair enough, that's fine then. I don't think Drew is likely to happen toDay at this point so I'll concede there. And I think your reasoning is acceptable, was a little suspicious about how you came to be voting Dragon.
I'll vote Umlaut - don't want to see gob dead. There seems to be interest here and I don't think the expressed interest is unwarranted.
VOTE: UmlautShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Well I've made my case on Drew and while it was convincing for some (you, maybe one other), I seem to recall other people acknowledging it and disagreeing with the conclusion, calling it more NAI than scum-indicative. Drew's wagon reached an apex of 4 (e-2) and when geraintm voted Dragon, bringing the wagons to a tie, I think is where the momentum stopped. I think if geraintm had voted the largest wagon on Drew and E-1ed him this day might have gone differently. Maybe that wasn't accidental by geraintm. Then we got an unvote from Dragon and the wagon at that point I think was definitely dead when it lost the vote from the player it was counter to. It doesn't help to have Celebloki not contributing at this point, but iirc one of the few things he did comment on is that he gets deja vu vibes from Drew vs Dragon from when Drew was Town and Dragon was scum. So at one point 8/10 players were voting for one of Drew/Dragon and people seemed firmly in one camp or the other. One of the two not voting those 2 was leaning more toward Dragon if push came to shove I think. So yeah, I don't think Drew is happening toDay.In post 386, Umlaut wrote: Sigh, I got my wires crossed and thought 372 was you and not Kyouko.
So my question is actually for@Kyouko, why don't you think Drew is a possibility today? I know I'm the only one voting him right this second but he had a pretty sizeable wagon going, why not push for what you want with three days still on the clock?
I'm not pushing more for it now because I would just be repeating the same arguments that I've already made and I'm pretty sure everyone has read them and that's how we got the wagons to 4-4 in the first place. I don't think continuing to push Drew toDay will result in his flip so I'll focus my efforts elsewhere for toDay and we will have associatives to work with toMorrow.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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As for Dragon, nothing has pinged me so far and he is one of the more active posters (but it's not shitposting). I think he is probably town simply because he has been active and engaged, and if he is scum it is difficult to maintain that level of activity and engagement without getting caught.In post 387, Umlaut wrote:@KyoukoAlso interested in your read on Dragon, looking through your ISO I see some commentary on other people's votes there but not much on Dragon himself.
I haven't looked into why people are voting for Dragon yet, as I've been more focused on Drew, but I know nobody has posted anything about Dragon that was persuasive enough to catch my eye while I have been playing from my phone.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I didn't say either of those things, you are inferring a different meaning. Being active and engaged isIn post 390, Doctor Drew wrote:
Well thanks for the subtle shade on me.In post 389, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
As for Dragon, nothing has pinged me so far and he is one of the more active posters (but it's not shitposting). I think he is probably town simply because he has been active and engaged, and if he is scum it is difficult to maintain that level of activity and engagement without getting caught.In post 387, Umlaut wrote:@KyoukoAlso interested in your read on Dragon, looking through your ISO I see some commentary on other people's votes there but not much on Dragon himself.
I haven't looked into why people are voting for Dragon yet, as I've been more focused on Drew, but I know nobody has posted anything about Dragon that was persuasive enough to catch my eye while I have been playing from my phone.
Why is someone town because they are active and engaged, and why is someone not town for shit posting?more likelyto come from town than scum in my experience. It is also my experience that scum can replicate this, but to do so consistently throughout a game is something that only the best scum players can do. Because of this, I choose not to push for D1 eliminations of players that are active but to me still feel nullish.
I mentioned shitposting because I was specifying that activity without content (shitposting) is not the type of activity of a nullish player that I will give a D1 pass to.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I don't feel strongly enough about anything to leave it behind during twilight in case of my death, with the exception of my Drew SR which is known at this point.In post 400, Altaria wrote: kyouko can we get a list of your reads?
I think Dragon is flipping town here and if he comes up scum I'll need to reevaluate.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Also we blazin itShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Gonna follow this up with some intermediary VCs cuz something feels fishy about what I just readIn post 422, T3 wrote:Day 1 VC 6:
DragonEater70 (5 [E-1]): Doctor Drew, Altaria, geraintm, Hu Tao, Celebloki
Umlaut (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Aliana
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (1): DragonEater70
Not voting (1): gob
Dragon claims in 431. Altaria swaps to gob in 432. Next Celebloki swaps in 436 after Altaria and Dragon both say they're okay with either gob or umlaut.
Next Hu Tao and then Alianna vote gob in 440 and 441 (ali says this is E-1), then in 442 Drew intents to hammer. 440 and 442 are 19 minutes apart
Umlaut at 445 voices he is not going to vote gob
When Umlaut moves for Hu Tao instead of gob in 446, Altaria quickly follows Umlaut's reasoning to Hu Tao but previously was saying she was okay with Umlaut/gob. The move to Hu Tao seems inconsistent with Altaria's play so far. Then Drew says the first thing he's said all game that has really townpinged me in 449
Hu tao, Celebloki, and Altaria were on both Dragon's and gob's E-1 wagons, feels like Altaria is not treating everyone equally here since she's now sheeping her previous POE'd lim on Hu Tao while also "liking" Celebloki (this is an older read but I dont see how Celebloki is any different than Hu Tao here, or from me, gob, or Alianna for that matter. We all want a lim that is not one of the people we think is town and as we approach deadline people are getting more aggressive with their votes. Even Altaria is doing this, so pushing Hu Tao for it is not a good look imo)
VOTE: AltariaShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the targetShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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It's either a scumtell or NAI, more likely NAIIn post 535, Altaria wrote:
so what was this about?In post 317, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.
So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town hereShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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He's a claimed JK. Scum shoots him if he's town, and he cant target himself. Therefore.he probably targeted the killer and stopped them from killingIn post 538, Altaria wrote:
???In post 536, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the targetShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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No, I still want to keep it to myself in case it's a scumtell.In post 540, Altaria wrote:
can you tell us what it wasIn post 539, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
It's either a scumtell or NAI, more likely NAIIn post 535, Altaria wrote:
so what was this about?In post 317, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.
So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town hereShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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With NAR and no other actions the killing action is roleblocked by the Jailkeep actionIn post 595, Altaria wrote:
I'm actually not sure about the order of events. I'm sure it's on the wiki somewhereIn post 593, Hu Tao wrote: How does it work if JK keeps scum but scum kills JK? I thought scum kills JK in that scenario?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Plot twist - we're in a 2 scum game, dragon went v/la overnight and accidentally failed to submit the kill :>She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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(I have not checked Dragon's ego)She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Yeah I guess it's not much of a plot twist if there are 2 scum that's my b, I was phoneposting and not thinking too hard about this game until Dragon comes backShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I think we no lim and let DE decide if he wants to JK Altaria again, JK someone else, or take no action. This way if DE is town here scum have to guess whether they should no kill or not, because if DE no acts and there is no kill it becomes likelier the first night was a frame-up using no kill.
If DE is scum that no killed to frame altaria this doesn't really change anything
VOTE: no eliminationShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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if town!DE dies and flips JK we'll have to eliminate Altaria anyways, but this forces scum to use a nightkill to kill DE instead of making town use 2 lims to kill DE and AltariaShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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UNVOTE:She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I am claiming a non-specific PR that I think supports the lazy vig claim on balanceShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I think it's mechanically probable that you are town which means either dragon is lying scum or he stopped you from being killed last Night. If he stopped you from dying we should not waste the time we've gained by no-eliminatingShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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From D1 I thought my role would support a Vigilante on balance but that felt like it would be too swingy/powerful for town if it were in the game ungated. Lazy Vig makes a lot of sense to meShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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My role is also why I so confidently declined to comment on my tell on gobShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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just yeet someone else and have dragon continue to JK Black, if she is scum she still won't be able to shoot while jailedShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Her claim makes sense mechanically with mine and I think we've established that Black and I can't be scum together, not only on numbers (3 scum in 10p is a lot), but it doesn't make sense for me to try to steer a wagon off of a flipped Goon onto a different teammateShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Yeah I'm with this, E-2:
VOTE: Umlaut
@mod you have Random Nurse back in the VC for D2 btw, or at least you did last I lookedShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I think scum no killed to frame Black and her claim backfired on themShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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